SimRacing.org.uk

Grid/server capacity: 22

Track: Le Mans ('69 to '71)

Cars allowed: Porsche 917LH

PM WT for track/car download pack

Practice: ~19:20 (60 mins)
Qualifying: 20:20 (20 mins)
Race: 20:40 (14 laps)

Time of Day Setting: 14:00
Start: STANDING
Tyre wear: Normal
Fuel consumption: Normal
Pit stops: Not Required

Server: simracing.org.uk Wednesday
Password: see above (#post_event_password)

Notes:
(1) It's best if all drivers can make sure they are connected before the Qualifying session as drivers on track during qualifying will not see cars that join after they are on track until they go back to the garage.
(2) Please make sure you are fully aware of the SimRacing.org.uk Rules.
(3) The AI control should be turned off so that you have control of the car at all times, including pitting. Your player file should therefore read
Autopit="0"
Force Autopit Off="1" // Forces autopit always off
No AI Control="1" // AI never has control over car
If you still finding pitting problematic, experience tells us that its less to do with positioning and more to do with approach speed. A slow approach to pit crew chief has proved most reliable.

Special Notes: You will need to have auto countdown on.

I did a few laps (only 1 actually clean and completed without a cut or crash), changing the setup a bit and setting a 3:18.

It's really easy to miss the braking point for most corners, to lose the car on entry (preload, coast and more rear camber help with that it seems), clip some of the walls (immediately affecting handling via damage) or get a cut warning at the last chicane (happens way too easy...).

It's a really odd car and you can't really push it too much. Reminds me of GPL handling somewhat. I uploaded my latest setup (v1c2) in the online database.

I have turned cuts off for this event.

I wonder if you should reduce the damage % too. Even the slightest contact immediately affected the handling, with the car pulling to the side. Perhaps the mod/car itself is made with more sensitive damage parameters.

No can do. GTL does not have this capability AFAIK.

It's the mod itself so try not to hit anything or practice pitstops for repairing stuff.

BTW, in case you haven't tested a race start...............

We all line up diagonally on the pit lane side of the track so be careful as collisions with your near neighbour may be possible.

Do I have to hold SHIFT to run to my car first from the other side of the track?  ;D

No, of course not. We all start running from the other side of the room  ;)

At the start I will try to keep my zimmer frame under control, but I accept no responsibility if it should become entangled in a competitors seat belts. It will be purely accidental  ::)

Just tried a couple of laps, H is right, if you hit anything even a bit hard, on "proffesional" you might as well retire.
Going to pits isn't really an option, you will be so far behind.

My birthday today guys, so won't be on for some racing tonight.....

Bent the steering on lap 2, went off a bit later, game over. Love the track version, car is not so nice

Hope you had a pleasant day, congratulations  :balloon: :balloon: :balloon:

Results and replay now posted.

I must confess that there were moments when I was actually enjoying this car/track combo, but there were more moments when I was not quite so comfortable.

Grats to the podium guys and to all those who survived to the finish. Apologies for my dramatic start and instant return to the pits Tony....my right foot must have put on weight after qualifying??

I had downloaded Hristo's setup at the last moment ( I have not the smallest clue about developing a setup for this type of car! ) and jumped onto the race server.
The first 10 "out laps" all ended in embarrassment and bent bits of Porsche scattered around the French countryside, followed by a return to the pits.

Hristo's setups always feel too twitchy for me, even though I like a very quick steering rack but I think he has a much more cultured right foot and does not stamp on the gas.
Last night I was beginning to understand the technique required to make H's setups work, although I still had to reduce the diff settings a click or two to soften things. Personally I like some lift off oversteer, so that if I back off in a corner, usually because I am being over ambitious, the car will tighten it's line and I have a chance of applying some opp lock to save myself.
Hristo's setup felt like the opposite and an instinctive lift would bring on understeer that was catastrophic. But.... a big but, if I kept 10-20% throttle fed into the car things improved dramatically and suddenly the beast was able to take corners at speed. There was still a very sharp turn in with more grip than I was expecting and several times I was thinking that I had outbraked myself, but when I eased off the brake pedal the car turned in so sharply that I  "T" boned the inside wall  before I reached the apex??? I need some practice with that aspect LOL. The last chicane was a challenge all  night long, I just could not find the braking point to arrive at the turn in spot at the correct speed. Maybe once I got close and posted a 3:21 lap, but there were still seconds escaping through there.

I am still working on my rig and slowly bringing things into the "comfort/confidence zone" both in GTL and GPL. Last night was the first outing with my Fanatec pedals utilising the pressure pad on the brake pedal. It took quite a few laps to get even remotely connected with that device and by the end of the race I was literally standing on the brake pedal and making all the seat joints creak at Mulsanne Corner, and even then it did not lock up!! I think I need to reduce the strength of the resistance pads as it was becoming very hard work........but maybe quite realistic??

I am still searching for a solution to my GTL  FF woes with no success. Again last night I had very light FF in PRACTICE, Heavy FF in QUALIFYING and light FF for the RACE  all without making any changes to the CONTROL menu ??? 

Would I like to race these cars again..............well yes/maybe.

Clive, I think Dimitar's changes to my v1c2 setup made it even better, so perhaps you should have tried his for qualifying. It's what I did, although I changed the tyre pressures to the maximum. This proved to be a mistake eventually, as it made handling in the corners quite troublesome. The car was quick thanks to the higher top speed on the straights, but it wasn't worth as much as I thought it would be. Maybe something in the middle between his pressures and the maximum would have been optimal?

My race was quite eventful! After going just a tenth slower than Dimitar in qualifying, I was optimistic because of the slipstream, but a slow start made me have some doubts that I had already lost him before the straight. Fortunately the high pressures and slipstream did their job and I was back in first, but now he was pushing very hard behind, braking later for most of the corners and carrying a bit more speed through them as well.

He overbraked himself before Indianapolis after catching my slipstream, went off and hit the wall, thus he had some damage already before the end of lap 1. On lap 2 we exchanged positions on the straight, but going through the hairpin side by side allowed Erling to catch up a little bit. Then DD made a mistake in the last chicane and for a moment I thought maybe I braked too early, so I slowed down to wait 1-2 seconds, but had to continue as Erling had caught up with me.

He was very quick on the straight, so I assume he had higher pressures as well. This produced some fine racing with exchange of positions and it also helped us pull away from Dimitar who was now 5 seconds behind, but he would quickly recover a second and a half through the twisty bits, only to see it go back up to 5 down the straights.

I was just preparing yet another attack when I lost the car on the exit of T3, spinning around violently. This caught DD by surprise and he forgot to brake for T4, crashing into the outside barriers. I managed to continue, but was now 6 seconds behind Erling, with Geoff some 14-15 more behind.

We had pretty much the same pace for the next few laps, but as I was pushing too hard to make up the gap, I clipped the wall on the outside of the fast right left combination near the end of the lap and flipped over. It took forever for the car to stop and reset itself, but then as I accelerated I saw Geoff coming full speed towards me! Turns out the game reset me facing the wrong direction!  ::)

This lost me some extra time trying to turn the car around and by the time I went going again, Geoff was about 8 seconds ahead. The damage I had from the incident was pulling the car to the side a bit and I also noticed that my straight line advantage was now gone, with Erling pulling away on the long straight (judging from the time gap). Luckily I still seemed to have enough speed to keep up with Geoff, so I put my head down and pushed as hard as I could.

Although the gap quickly went down to 5-6 seconds, Geoff seemed to have found his pace and from there one we were pretty evenly matched for most of the remaining laps, with a few tenths gained here and there, bringing the gap down to 4 seconds with 3 laps to go. Suddenly I saw Geoff right in front of me, as he had an off in that terrible slow right hander before the final sector, so now the gap was less than 2 seconds with just 2 laps to go!

Geoff was quickly back into rhythm and was actually pulling away in some parts of the track, so I had to take bigger risks in the corners that I noticed I'm slightly quicker. On the penultimate lap I was not close enough to catch his slipstream, and then just as I had closed up before the start of the final lap, he went quicker through the chicane and the gap slightly increased again. I just had to take the first section before the straight as best as possible, but massive understeer in T1 didn't help with that. Fortunately T2 through T4 were far better, probably the best I took them the whole race, so I was just over a second behind Geoff as we accelerated up the long straight.

Initially it didn't seem like I was going to make it, but slowly slowly the gap was closing down and once the slipstream effect increased, I realized I was in with a chance! I caught up to him just before the fast right and made my move on the inside before the braking zone. Had he covered the inside there, it would have probably been over, but I guess his plan was to attack back on the following straight. Unfortunately this didn't happen, as he went too wide on the exit of the hairpin and lost a lot of time on acceleration.

All that long slipstream, plus pushing hard in the reminder of the lap, gave me the fastest lap, so that and 2nd place were satisfactory enough.

All in all very happy with the result, despite not winning. Erling deservedly won with his amazing consistency (watch DD's video as he shows Erling's lap times at some point, most of them in the 1:16s) and lack of big mistakes, so congrats to him! Congrats to Geoff as well for discovering his pace during the race and making it interesting until the very end. Commiserations to Dimitar for retiring, it would have been better if he was involved in the battle for longer.

Grats to everyone else for surviving until the end! Despite the difficult car/track combination and the high damage setting of the car, it's surprising that we didn't have more retirements.

Le Mans and with a 917 is always special, and quite the challenge, as it's so easy to make a costly or fatal mistake.

Once again a big thank you to Hristo for generously sharing his setups - and to DD, if he made his available too.  I used Hristo's v1c2, which was definitely better than my own - car was more stable, and I noticed during the race, that tyre wear was significantly less, probably because I didn't slide around so much.  And no, I didn't change the tyre pressures Hristo, so that can't be the explanation for my straight line speed.

Took it carefully at the start.  Had difficulty keeping up with DD & Hristo, as they were dragging each other along, but did gain a little when they lost time in some corners.  At the end of L2, I saw DD go off and hit the barrier in the final chicane, passing him shortly after.  Hristo hesitated, but not enough to let me pass him too.  However, I was close enough to play the slipstream game once we reached Mulsanne.  I passed Hristo, who immediately countered, getting in front again.  Close behind when we reached Mulsanne Corner.  Took the inside line, mostly to avoid hitting him under braking, and briefly got my nose in front again, as we were side by side down the next straight.  Hristo's better top speed saw him inching ahead, and I had to tuck in behind.  As we neared Indianapolis, I had to fall back, so I could see my braking points - missing them was simply not an option with this car.

Still close enough to slipstream ahead again on the next lap, this time staying there. On the following lap, I lost sight of Hristo after Tertre Rouge, assuming and later having confirmed that he spun.  Shame it caught out DD, but know all to well how distracted you can get by another driver having an issue up ahead.  Gap held for a few laps, and then started increasing in chunks, seemingly due to the incidents Hristo mentions.  Took a lot of concentration to finish the race without making any big mistakes, and very surprised to end up winning, but guess anything can happen with this tricky car!

Grats to Hristo & Geoff, and all the survivors.  Commiserations especially to DD and remaining early retirees.

Clive: Are you sure you don't want to try my .plr file ?   I am using a Thrustmaster wheel & Fanatec pedal set, without those weird FF issues you suffer from.

Result (https://www.avonrise.co.uk/srou/kurts/_2021//01092021_LeMans1970)


8)

Thank you Kurt  :thumbup1:

Thanks for the offer of your .plr file Erling.
Yes please! as I am running out of ideas around this weird FF thing. At the very least I can run through the settings that you have and compare with mine, to hopefully see where the problem is hiding.

Whatever is causing the FF to switch on and off has to be within the GTL software, because GPL works perfectly where I can adjust the FF to my preference and the settings stay put. Also, the fact that it changes through practice/quali/race with no input from me??!!

It does sound weird indeed.  The closest I have been, is to lose FF when the race starts, but thankfully this has only happened a couple of times.  If you pm me your email, I will send the file.

The only thing I can see that you are doing that is weird is these bodnar cables. Perhaps they don't work well with GTL?

Well that race went much better than I expected after the practice session. I had spent about 45 minutes in the afternoon trying to rustle up some sort of setup that would get the car around half sensibly without too much success. On joining the server I loaded it up & went for a few laps, crashed, tried again, crashed etc. As qually started I decided to junk my setup & downloaded DD's, amazing difference, I could not only get the car around the track but could even drive it semi-agressively. Thanks DD.  :thumbup1:

Race started poorly as I lost a place to Chris, but regained it down the Mulsanne straight only for Chris to repass before the end. However he overshot Mulsanne corner & I nearly followed allowing Matt to nip past. Managed to regain the place before Indianapolis but was already some 8s behind the top 3. That gap came down a little during the next couple of laps as they battled with each other & then to only a couple of seconds when DD made an error at the chicane. A lap or so later I was up to 3rd when I passed an inverted DD at Tertre Rouge & then 2nd after passing Hristo facing the wrong way  :eek:.

Erling was now way ahead & still pulling away & a recovered Hristo was about 8s behind. I expected to be caught quite quickly by Hristo but I guess his car was a bit damaged as the gap only came down slowly & I worked out at the rate he was catching that I could maybe just hold on to 2nd place. It was going to plan until I braked a little too late at Arnage & lost a couple of seconds, that being just enough for Hristo to get in my slipstream on the Mulsanne straight on the final lap & get ahead. Thought I may be able to draft back past on the run to Indianapolis but got a couple of wheels on the grass on the exit of Mulsanne corner & Hristo was gone. Just cruised around the rest of the lap to finish 3rd.

Congrats to Erling on a superb winning drive & to Hristo in 2nd.  :clap: :clap:

You might have a point there Matt and I had considered it as a possibility but............
................as now I have the new T300 wheel ( no Bodnar cable there ), the new Fanatec pedals ( no Bodnar cable needed there ) and the Logitech shifter ( which does need a Bodnar cable to make it function and connect direct to USB, although I am pretty sure that the shifter does not involve the FF in any way )..........????  .
Even if Bodnar was in any way responsible, why does the FF quite predictably switch OFF/ON/OFF between Practice-Qually-Race and work faultlessly at all times with GPL ?
Answers in less than 500 words on a postcard please  :wacko: :-\

I just googled a bit and found this topic:

https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/loss-of-ffb-in-race-session-online.27912/

It seems it happens with other kind of wheels too and in all sims based on the ISI engine. Someone suggested pressing ALT-F while on track to reset the FFB, have you tried that? I remember doing that in rFactor sometimes whenever I had no FFB, but haven't tried it in GTL.

I would also suggest doing the tick/untick (or vice versa) trick on the reverse effects box before going on track to see if that is a work around, as that should also reset the FFB.....

@ Hristo
Thanks for that. I will try the alt-F suggestion when next online for a race in GTL if other interventions have not sorted things by then.

@Daz
Thanks.
I have lost count of the times that I have toggled the "Reverse Effects" box, all in the forlorn hope that something will change . Isn't it considered a sign of madness to repeat the same moves over and over again, but expect a different outcome? because I think I must be borderline insane about this  :blink:

I have never ( no never!!) run a race session offline with GTL, solely used practice sessions for any race preparations, or jumped on the server just to be sure that all track/car files are working.

But I thought I would do a race session against the AI and observe if the ON/OFF/ON FF issue is there offline, which would make even less sense in my troubled mind. I am aware that I am occupying a lot of UKGTL bandwidth with my woes so I will try to keep things to a minimum.

Ah, sorry Clive, must have missed where you mentioned you had done that already. Helps me prove yet again that I am no expert in these matters  ;D

No worries Clive. It's actually a valuable source of amusement  ;)

I'm pleased to hear that this saga is providing entertainment in some quarters.
If I had known I could have posted several Youtube videos of my backside protruding from under a desk,  surrounded by USB and Bodnar cables with a heavily censored soundtrack  ::).

The "in car" videos from the recent races were deemed too offensive and Youtube removed them as they were deemed likely to spontaneously cause viewers to develop Covid like symptoms and become hospitalised.  :cursing: :cursing:

P.S.
Tried an offline session at Le Mans with the 917...practice/quali/ and race.
I tried the Alt-F remedy at each change and I had the same level of FF, so maybe THAT is the answer?? Only an online race will confirm.