SimRacing.org.uk

event password = see above (released 24hrs before the race)

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Prototype Potluck Round 7
The 260KMs of Feldburg

Welcome to Round 7 of the Prototype Potluck series - It wouldn't be a 60's GT season without an extra long torturous road circuit! (I didn't manage a full lap when testing the Targa so we're here instead....)

Keep in mind the advice from last time regarding driving to your own and your competitors cars strengths and weaknesses and this one should turn out to be quite a close challenge.


Qualifying etiquette
To match most race events of the late 60's we are having a combined 1 hour practice and qualifying.
Due to this the track will contain drivers who are practising and setting up and also drivers who are running a qualifying lap.
If you are on a hot lap please turn your headlights on - and remember to turn them off again once finished.
If you are simply practising or working on setups please keep your headlights off and try not to hold up drivers who are on hot laps if you can avoid it - you'll want them out of your way when it's your own turn to try and qualify. ;)

Please note that the start time has been moved slightly forward from our traditional time - this is to allow the race to finish at a similar time to normal

Practice/Qualifying: 19:00 (60 mins)
Race                  :  20:00 (23 laps)

Cars allowed:

Drivers must either post their car choice here or PM it to me by 18:00(UK time) on Tuesday the 18th. This is so I can ensure the server has the correct numbers of cars available. You can inform me in advance if you wish to do so.
Drivers who have posted/sent their preference will get priority, so turning up without 'booking' your car could result in your being being removed from the server to make room for someone who has booked. You will then have to rejoin in something that is available whether you have practised in it or not.
You can see my own car choice listed in the Series announcement thread.

Ford GT40
Porsche 908LH
Ferrari 330 P4
Porsche 917k

Track:  Feldbergring (https://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/feldbergring.21195/)



Live Timing: stracker.simracing.org.uk:50041/lapstat (http://stracker.simracing.org.uk:50041/lapstat)

Time of Day Setting: 14:00
Weather: Mid Clear
Start: Standing
Damage:   80%
Fuel use:  100%
Tire Wear: 100%
Pit-stops: Not mandatory - but you will probably need them ;)


Server track settings:
SESSION_START=96
RANDOMNESS=2
LAP_GAIN=0.035
SESSION_TRANSFER=80

PLP App - Not used in this series. Cutting will be monitored on replay and penalties issued for excessive cutting.

Notes:
(1)PLP App - Not used in this event. Cutting will be monitored on replay and penalties issued for excessive cutting.
(2)Please make sure you are fully aware of the SimRacing.org.uk Rules especially the
rules about in-game chat messages.
(3) Please exercise caution when pitting as some tracks have a speed limit.
(4) Please follow the SROUK guidelines for using kerbs etc. Please keep 2 wheels on the track surface (kerbs do not count as track surface)
Excessive cutting of corners will seen as cheating and the results may be altered to reflect this.


Car use so far:


Jari has used the 908 3x so is now unable to use it further!
Bob has used the P4 3x so is now unable to use it further!
VVA has used the P4 3x so is now unable to use it further!
FMG has used the GT40 3x so is now unable to use it further!
Kimi has used the GT40 3x so is now unable to use it further!

917 please


 :P

Good pick Max, I'll take 908 then.

 ;D

When working out the race distance I totalled it on my first flying lap, blew the gearbox on the second. And then just to rub salt into the wounds I blew the engine in the final braking point of a 4 lap race against the AI :D

Good luck! :wacko:

I put my dancing shoes on and got some laps in this morning as this track is so nice - I kept messing the 917 up so the number you're aiming for on a gripped up track will be 3:45 or less Max ;)
As I know you're also a fan of the GT40's 'interesting handling' sweet spot all I can say is that if you find time you REALLY need to try it here, it drives so nicely compared to the P4 I'm gutted that I can't run it - even if the P4 is destroying it in pace as expected.

Nothing I do seems to cure the high speed understeer in that Ferrari, great for traction in the tighter sections but utter rubbish for the really fast sections here. Not only does the GT40 hit bigger numbers but it doesn't/barely needs to lift in places where you're nearly tickling the brakes for the Fez :(

Yeh that Ferrari is an odd one,  it should grip like the proverbial but for some reason(almost has to be an aero thing) the front is just lame at speed.  Sucked at Spa, sucked at Riverside, sucks at Monza...

GT40 was a revelation at Mosport though,  hit that sweet spot and it just drifts through all the turns like it was born for it  ;D


Will do some laps here over the next few days  ;)

It could be the open roof - I remember my Westfield had truly scary high speed understeer once approaching 100mph.
Needless to say the handling was as good as you could ever hope for at lower speeds, I always felt that the vertical windscreen was pulling the nose up and just dumping grip over the rear.
So it could be the aero-turbulence caused by an open roof did the same in the P4.
AC seems to portray all of the cars in it in a warts and all format (Unlike simcades such as Forza where even cars from the 50's behave like modern cars ::) ), so I assume Ferrari provided some aero data that makes the car horrid.
Or it's just a chassis thing. Until the advent of yaw, traction and stability control the best way to go fast was to build a car that understeered - the CanAm 917-30 is a perfect example of that logic taken to the extreme, as anything less than massive understeer would make it un-drivable!

In modern terms my S13 180SX is known to be an understeering chassis, the S14 200SX I had prior to that was well known as a neutral one. The 180 was faster even when it was standard on track, now it has similar power to the 200 and it destroys it as I can use the loud pedal more... (The 2-way might help things there too mind, but that has also added to the understeer quite heavily).

Well I am so far off the pace here I am not sure it is worth turning up, but if I do it will be in the GT40.

Remember Geoff - It's an endurance race. For every car that crashes here ( :devil: ) you get spots.
Points mean prizes and all that (Don't say that at a speed awareness course, it seems they are only run by people with no sense of humour).

Trouble is I don't get much enjoyment from trundling around at the back on my own. My best lap so far is 4.18, now maybe I can knock a second or two off that but I really need to be 6-8s faster to be in with a chance of racing someone. So what will happen is either I will get bored & give up or push to go faster & wreck the car. 

Cya Wednesday, I will endeavour to reach the finish (a couple of laps behind  ::)).

Ooft this is a tough track to learn from scratch  :o

Great mod of a track though, very nicely done  8)

Big thanks to Alex who allowed me to follow/chase him around for many laps so I could learn it on the hoof  :thumbup1:

GT40 please.

gt 40, thanks!

will a 3:42 do  ;D   I died multiple times getting used to it, if I was a cat I would probably refuse to ever get in that beast again  :laugh:



Finishing the race hmm, we'll see. I guess I better test tyre wear tomorrow to see can it do it on 1 pitstop...

908 for me.

being a complete newb to this track i am miles off the pace unless these times are all qually runs?! Am quicker in the GT40 but will take a 908 as it feels more like a sportscar here. Based on the few sessions i've had, my chances of surviving are slim anyway  ;D

Anyone got a good setup for the 908?

Mark,  you had horrible low track grip in the 908, that's worth a few seconds on its own + add to that most of the fast times are set with pretty high (but not full) grip and that's some explanation, the rest will be car setup and track knowledge...



Someone will prolly yell at me,  but I have a theory that the majority of cars in AC have the same common default setup failings - incorrect camber balance front to rear, dampers that are not working, and a floppy rear end  ;)    I'm almost sure they hired Ken Block to make them just for a giggle  :laugh:

Is he hired by anyone who is over 5 years old?

I've no idea man :P  but he's the only person I can think of who drives to show off but sucks at actually going fast (WRC didn't do him any favors  :D).


What I do know is most cars feel like they're setup to initiate a huge oversteer moment rather than take a corner quickly...

I do find the cars are much more difficult to setup in AC compared to GT Legends or Raceroom, Raceroom in particular having pretty good default setups. Then again I am fairly new to AC & have not really got to grips with what works & what doesn't.

I did find quite a bit of time in the GT40 here yesterday, seems I was running far too much camber on the front, reducing it gave much better front grip.

AC quite likes "camber thrust" for grip during turn in and its as important as spring / damper / aero for the balance - get that balance wrong front to rear and you're in for a bad time fighting the car, but yes of course overall camber also makes a difference as you found - you can be a few clicks off the optimal camber and not really notice but get that f/r balance wrong and oh boy.  Also the vintage tyres are not all the same, despite all these cars just having that "vintage" moniker they definitely like different amounts of camber depending on car.  Some nerd can come along and tell me car x had tyre y etc  - sorry nerds, I am one too sometimes but I cant be bothered to go look up what tyres each car had back in the day, just trying to point out the game is sometimes misleading :-)


Rambling on,  I have no idea what steering most of you guys are running, but with a Direct Drive wheel you can actually feel when you hit the (slow)dampers sweet spot on the front end, as the extra grip makes the steering noticeably heavier. Sadly from what I remember of more normal thrustmaster etc wheels it wont really be noticeable like that, but you should still be able to tell from corner speeds


/ shuts up and goes back to work...

908 please. Its long race, but her windshield wiper is smth worth seeing for 1,5 hrs.

908 here please if still possible.

Well now I know I'm gonna die tomorrow - just did a full tank run (12 laps) to test tyre wear and I didn't die, didn't even touch the scenery the whole way...



Also,  where is Axel Linther, I know you must be out there lurking because I regularly see you put times on the practice server (decent times too).  Why you not join the races buddy  ???

managed to find a whopping 8 seconds lap improvement within just a few laps last night!  :o and was even 1 sec quicker on my following lap until i binned it, so proves my setup was hopelessly wrong somehow. Thanks to vva for sharing his, most kind.  :cowboy:

Hmmm, looks like everyone else has found some more time & I am still 6-7s too slow, argh.  ::)

917,  because its epic   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-722akKSo4    ;D

Sorry I quit early, my head just wasn’t in it tonight after a bit of a sh**y stressy end to my day, just couldn’t focus and it meant several silly offs that just wound me up more so I parked it.  :(

Too bad MJ, indeed this one track needs full concentration! Pfeww

Had a good scrap with Jari and chasing Syd. Had one chance in the penultimate lap but made an error in the town Had to let Jari go, but a good scrap that was. Also too bad Lorenzo wasn't around tonight.

I got third in q, but bogged down at the start and Stefan got by me. Jari was right on my tail and after a bad exit out of the hairpin on the long straight, on lap 2 I think, Jari got passed me. We stayed close and I returned the favor on the next lap and got by Jari in the same manner. Porsche and GT40 seemed pretty well matched, at least in our respective hands. On lap four, in the hilly section I came around the bend just in time to see Stefan coming down from the side of the track facing the wrong direction. Got by him safely and I was back in third. Jari was very close behind. Sometime the distance would grow to 2-3 seconds, and sometime he would be all over the back of my car. But I knew I was actually way ahead since I didn't have to stop for fuel. I kept my eye on Stefan as well, as he was within 10-15 seconds behind.
Finally after 14 laps Jari stopped, and the pressure was off. But it seems I needed that pressure to keep me on my toes. Cause a couple of laps later, just after Max lapped me, I had a lapse in  concentration and tapped a fence on the side of the track. I though no biggie, it was a slight touch. But somehow my suspension was all broken. I had to go almost half a lap while keeping the wheel att least at a 30 degree angle on the straights. I though podium was gone. As I set in the pits, waiting for repairs to be done (free change of tires as well), I watched to see how many cars would pass. But nobody passed the pits, and I exited some 4 seconds ahead of Stefan, who was just ahead of Jari. Stefan must have had some problem of his own, as I see he pitted on lap 14. Or was it tactical?
By this point my engine was very yellow, but I had no choice but to push, as the two guys behind were closing in. At some point they swapped places, and Jari was behind. He got very close to passing me on the hairpin corner, but I covered the inside, and was than able accelerate better on the long straight.  Then on the last lap, I just said forget the engine saving, just go all out. I got my by far the fastest lap on that last lap, and only noticed when I was on the long straight for the last time that Jari and Stefan fell several seconds back.
It was a very tense ending to the race, very happy with the podium.
Congrats to Max on the win, and Tim on staying on the lead lap  ;D

Great combo, TBH it was a relatively boring race for me (like that 917 is ever boring, what a fun evening going round that circuit in the beast), but just driving into the distance I opted for playing safe and being certain to finish so didn't push 100%. DOH moment, I fueled based on my 12 lap practice run on tuesday where I did push that bit harder and because of that ended up with a lap and change worth of fuel at the flag, not the 1-2L I expected.

Was a little disappointed the track was only 96% in qually and wasn't going up, so after doing my banker lap I opted to sit in the pits rather than being frustrated and frustrating others in the later stages when the track was busy.  Sadly that meant no silly lap time attempts...



Now imagine, a pack of lotus 25s racing here, with(don't yell at me) damage turned down real low (maybe 20% or something), so minor indiscretions are not race ending and you can focus on the racing and a good chance everyone gets to finish 8) . Not super realistic maybe, but FUN.

Quite enjoyed most of the race, just the last few laps were a bit of a chore.

I knew I was going to be right at the back so just decided to take it easy for the first few laps & get into a rhythm, which worked out quite well & I was steadily getting faster. Obviously the lightening fuel load helped but despite doing many practice laps I was still learning new & better lines through parts of the track. Eventually though I got a bit carried away trying to improve my laptimes which inevitably resulted in mistakes & at my pitstop I decided to fully repair the car & put new tyres on. Just threw caution to the wind over the last few laps & would probably have got down to 4.05 had I not made errors on every one of the last 4-5 laps. Had a major crash on the final lap & was lucky it wasn't race ending as I finished up in a side road where I could easily regain the track, rather than deep in the woods.

Congrats to the podium & all who finished.  :thumbup2: :thumbup2: