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UKGTR => UKGTR Races => Topic started by: Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer on April 25, 2007, 07:53:57 AM +0100



Title: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer on April 25, 2007, 07:53:57 AM +0100
Practice 1:20:00(15 mins)full time drivers only
Practice 2:20:15(10 mins)reserves may join too
Qual 1:20:25(5 mins)Masters may join too
Qual 2:20:30(25 mins)
Race:20:55(80 mins)note: no warmup!

Cars allowed: any GT1, G2, GT2, GTC or GT3 from the UKGTR Skin Pack v2.3 (https://www.simracing.org.uk/index.php?pid=27) (G2 and GT3 cars will not score points).
Weather: changeable, based on real-world conditions at the start of the event.
Track: Estoril
Race Start Time 14:00
Pit Stops: All drivers must make a minimum of one pit stop. This must involve entering the pit lane at the speed limit, and coming to a complete standstill in the designated pit box. Tyres do not have to be changed and no fuel has to be added. You cannot take your mandatory stop at the end of the pace lap, or with less than 1 lap to go.

Server: UKGTR Endurance Clubmen
Password: available from the event page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/index.php?ind=lm2&event=364) (see the Show Password link under the announcement text)

Notes:
(1) Please make sure you are fully aware of the UKGTR Rules (https://www.simracing.org.uk/index.php?pid=7) - especially the speed limiter starting procedure and the rules about in-game chat messages.
(2) Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/index.php?ind=lm2&group=51)
(2b) Reserves (anyone without a full time spot) should not join until the stated session, regardless of the time.
(2c) Drivers with a full time spot in the Endurance Masters should only take G2 or GT3 cars. Other reserves may take any permitted car.
(3) You will not be able to join the server without the skin and ballast pack (see link above).
(4) Drivers may only change car once in the season without penalty.
(5) Drivers are reminded that they must select ISDN as their bandwidth, otherwise the stability of everyone's connection will be reduced.


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer on April 25, 2007, 07:54:25 AM +0100
After last night's lack performance I need to find some serious testing time between now and Sunday!


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: Kerr on April 25, 2007, 08:34:37 AM +0100
After last night's lack performance I need to find some serious testing time between now and Sunday!

Should be a good one. You missed a very good race at Silverstone the other week. I think there is very little between about 6 or 7 drivers in GT1 class, maybe more, that are on pace with masters.

I'm going to get some practice in today



Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: Bully on April 27, 2007, 12:06:35 PM +0100

Track: Silverstone ('Northampton') GP (download from here (https://www.simracing.org.uk/index.php?pid=27); see this thread (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2990.0) if you have problems)

I take this is wrong and should be Estoril :)

I will need some serious practice for this one! :)

Bully.


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: picnic on April 27, 2007, 12:31:04 PM +0100
I think you can Bully ;)


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer on April 27, 2007, 02:58:30 PM +0100
I take this is wrong and should be Estoril :)

Er... just testing...? :-[ :laugh:


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: Adam Parle on April 27, 2007, 07:15:01 PM +0100
Er... just testing...? :-[ :laugh:

Er... just aging...? :-[ :laugh:


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: Jimmie on April 27, 2007, 10:11:13 PM +0100
I will try to participate but it's Queensday (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koninginnedag) in NL (well actually day after, but partying starts night before) so could be very well possible that I'm already away by then :)


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: rufbtr on April 28, 2007, 01:26:49 PM +0100
same here.


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: lincescom on April 29, 2007, 06:00:28 PM +0100
Hi  :)

Teamspeak, it will be on for the race?

cheers,


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer on April 29, 2007, 06:42:57 PM +0100
Teamspeak, it will be on for the race?

Not officially - but I would imagine it will be available for those without their own team server.

The server wasn't perfect on Friday night so we don't want to encourage everyone to use the TS server just in case it was implicated (although we're fairly confident that it wasn't).


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: lincescom on April 29, 2007, 07:45:01 PM +0100
Thanks  ;)


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: will16v on April 29, 2007, 10:01:37 PM +0100
Missed it - aaaargghhhhh!  ::)


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: TinMan on April 29, 2007, 10:08:33 PM +0100
Was thoroughly enjoying the race - sure I could have had that pesky Gymer(honest, guv). Then had ANOTHER lost connection. This is the 4th race in a row that I have lost the connection(2GTR2 and 2 GTL). Have no idea what's happening. On a brighter note - it looks like Team Oldie have swooped in the signing market and scooped Young Nevski. He's only 38 and much too talented for us, but what can you do?
Watch us rocket up the team points tables. If we are no longer to be also-rans I guess we'll have to get some practice rubbishing Team Shark(as all the other likely contenders seem to do - LOL)

TC


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: Nick Phillips on April 29, 2007, 10:32:51 PM +0100
First off apologies to pops for the punt into the hairpin, got caught out a bit as you were slower having let the GT past, was locked up and did just enough to turn you round, however felt less guilty when you got me on the last lap. ;D

I was praying for the checkered a lap previous as my tyres were gone but not to be.

New lesson on pit stops tonight was having put no fuel and zero pit stops into my setup, I was so concentrated on saying no tyres and getting out again that I missed the fact it was trying to fill me up, which cost me pit time, and the around 2 seconds a lap roughly until the end.

So next week I should have all pitting screw ups sorted and be right up there!

Cheers


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: Kerr on April 29, 2007, 10:34:15 PM +0100
Well done class winners.

A poor race by me. Suffered horrendous understeer the whole race. My tyre temps were only 73 left front and 68 right and that was medium tyres! Don't know why they were so far out. Held second up to the pit stop and was 2 secs ahead of Picnic. After the stops found myself 18secs down on picnic. I thought I made good stop and no real time loss out outlap.

Found myself all by myself after pit stop with no chance of catching to the two ahead. I just fought with my car at a reasonable pace to keep 3rd. Could not do anymore with the car performing so poorly.

I will have to find 0.04 of a sec in qualifying. That's twice Backo has pipped me by 0.03 of a second


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: pribeiro on April 29, 2007, 10:38:46 PM +0100
Sorry to hear that Tom :(

This race was fun because the Viper Coupe, its fun to drive :laugh:
2/3 of race i had a cool fight with SBG, the other 1/3 with Mo :)
Every exit corners, using 2nd or 3rd gear, were fun, spinning tires
and balancing with the steer ;D
But even with med/hard tires, they only give good handling for 10 laps,
after that, the fun is higher ::)
Viper Coupe is a great car melting tires and evaporating fuel ;D
but in a sprint race, should be cool, because i was in 1st (G3) cars
and 12th overall when i pit, after 48 mnts. 8)

Congrats to Backo, Lincescom and Paul968 :)
Well done to all
Cheers


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: picnic on April 29, 2007, 10:42:06 PM +0100
Replay (http://ukgtr.simracing.org.uk/Estoril%20-%20Endurance%20Clubmen%20070429.zip) and Provisional Results (https://www.simracing.org.uk/index.php?ind=lm2&event=364)


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer on April 29, 2007, 10:44:19 PM +0100
Was thoroughly enjoying the race - sure I could have had that pesky Gymer(honest, guv). Then had ANOTHER lost connection. This is the 4th race in a row that I have lost the connection(2GTR2 and 2 GTL). Have no idea what's happening.

:'(  I was really having to work hard just to stay ahead - was really disappointed when you vanished. :( When it happens to me it's usually because my ADSL connection has cycled to a slower speed - does your modem/router have a log of events?

Had a vey exciting race - early on with TinMan and Jure, later with Drumbstick, who was destroying me on pace but eventually blew his Lambo's engine giving me 5th back. Also tried to put Jonzo under some pressure when I came out just behind him after my stop and before his, but despite him locking wheels everywhere couldn't get close enough to have a bash at unlapping myself. After that I had no chance of getting 4th, but had to keep pushing because Jure was homing in on me to the tune of nearly 2s a lap! :o From 30s behind after his stop he was only 5 behind at the end. Shocking!

Big thanks to all the GT2, GTC and GT3 cars - I was pretty forceful with a lot of you simply because I always seemed to have someone just ahead of ust behind. Thanks chaps. 8)

Not sure how I feel about 5th - I thoroughly enjoyed the race but my teammate has a massive speed advantage over me and I still don't seem to be getting to grips properly with the GT1 cars. ???


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: Adam Parle on April 29, 2007, 10:47:28 PM +0100
That was tiring more than anything ..... after an atrocious start and a little bodywork re-modeling I picked up some pace through the first third of the race - had a tought time keeping up with Nick.  Made a few cock-ups to let him open up what I thought was an unassailable gap ...... until the pit stop  ;) when he got distracted by one of the Legends pit girls and let me infront.

After the pit stop it was a question of how quickly the leading GT2's would get me ..... and not long was the answer.  Didn't really try to fight them off .... as there was no way I would keep them behind me.

Made a few cockups in the final third of the race, but kept it together and stayed ahead of my fellow Legends Vertigo driving teammate Pops - tough luck with the beaching Pops, you had the GTC race in the bag.  But as you say, Legends 1-2 does the GTC champ nicely.  4th and 5th in the GT2/GTC class keeps thing ticking over.

Am thoroughly knackered now ..... time to sleep I think....


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: picnic on April 29, 2007, 10:51:14 PM +0100
Great race for me, was really not looking forward to what the changeable weather was going to throw at us when I saw light rain at Underground Weather. Lucky for me I was late in and need some food before I raced and it had dried up :) although track temp was well down on the sprint last Tuesday.

Qual'ed 4th but the car felt inconsistent compared with the sprint, those pesky temps again I suspect. Each session got a bit warmer and the car was ok in the race, tyre temps were all a bit down but that helps them last.

Managed to sneak 3rd on the first lap when Mark ran wide with his cold brakes/tyres and could stay with Brian K. For some reason I was expecting Brian to do a long first stint and decided to pit, mortified to see Brian pull into the pits in front of me. Lucky for me I was not filling up too much and had no aero / damage to repair and got out before Brian. Amazed the gap was as big as it turned out but not complaining ;)

When I can out Backo, yet to stop, steamed passed me on my cold tyres to put me a lap down. But he pitted a couple of laps later and to my surprise came out straight in front of me a lap later. I managed to stay with him, I think me in his mirrors was slowing him down. Once we got split lapping some the slower cars he just knuckled down and disappear in to the distance. Well done mate.

Chuffed to bits with a 2nd :)

Sadly I'm going to miss the next round :'( So battle will be resumed in 4 weeks.


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: popabawa on April 29, 2007, 10:53:58 PM +0100
First off apologies to pops for the punt into the hairpin, got caught out a bit as you were slower having let the GT past, was locked up and did just enough to turn you round, however felt less guilty when you got me on the last lap. ;D

Thanks for the apology Nick. It wasn't much contact but it took ages for me to re-join the track, I was having problems getting out of the gravel and it was in a really dangerous place so I was trying to be really careful.

Pretty good race though, I was really happy to qualify in GTC/GT2 2nd place then lucky at the start to build a bit of lead with mistakes from other drivers so I was able to take it a bit easy to keep the tyres in good shape, I still had reasonable grip over the last past of the race to pip you Nick, I kept praying for another lap!

The GT2's finally got revenge, there was no chance for the Vertigo's to keep up at this track.

Nice work by the majority of the GT1's although there's a couple of you guys that are still being a bit overly aggressive >:(

Thanks to the Masters for turning up in the GT3's :)


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: Mark J on April 29, 2007, 11:00:26 PM +0100
Reasonably quiet race for me with no on-track action at all, other than the first few laps chasing the guys just ahead. I ran wide on turn 4 with cold brakes and that allowed Picnic to steal through and take 3rd from me. Stayed on his heels for a few laps but then stupidly outbraked myself up at Parabolica interior and he gained a 7 second gap over me.
I then had no one near me for the majority of the race whilst i ran a lonely 4th. After my stop i came out 14 secs behind the guy in front and finished the race about 3.5 seconds behind Kerr, finishing 4th.
I should be happy with that but felt i had a podium chance tonight but 2 or 3 silly little errors running slightly wide and some traffic hold ups cost me the 3rd place.
Backmarkers were (mostly) very good in feathering off and moving aside whereas a few obstinately stayed where they were costing valuable seconds through the complexes, but not easy to get off line in some parts of this track and everyone is having their own race.

Congrats to the podium guys in all classes  8)


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: lincescom on April 29, 2007, 11:06:48 PM +0100
 Nice race  :)

 The first part was really difficult with Munkez always close ( grate drive mate).
 In the second part I was trying to keep my self focus and trying to get close to Munkez, for a final  :fencing:   but some how he had a spin in turn one and I found my self in the First place  :1eye:

  
 Congrats to Backo and Paul968

 Cheers


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: Munkez on April 29, 2007, 11:15:20 PM +0100
Nice race  :)

 The first part was really difficult with Munkez always close ( grate drive mate).
 In the second part I was trying to keep my self focus and trying to get close to Munkez, for a final  :fencing:   but some how he had a spin in turn one and I found my self in the First place  :1eye:

 
 Congrats to Backo and Paul968

 Cheers

Yeah, was great fun, thought i was a little quicker through all the bends just couldn't get a run on you on the straights.... did try to go round the outside of you through parabolica interior :o which even had me worried, but just couldn't get the grip! new it would all come down to the all important pitstop :P
A little disappointed to have spun the way i did in curva 1, but hey live and learn i suppose, good drive and congrats on the win!


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: BACKO on April 30, 2007, 12:51:43 AM +0100
I really enjoyed race in Estoril,I love this track.Qualification. and race I made without big  mistakes , pole position  in qualification.  :o surprised  ,wasn't my best time at all!, and then I took the race easy ,I was expecting from Kerr very close racing but I won from start to finish!!! :o.Such a shame that I won't be available  for next races,because I'm going on holiday for two weeks.Thx for nice race and Siya soon on tracks!!! ;D


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: ginsters sponsored on April 30, 2007, 08:37:04 AM +0100
Nice battle with PR up to 1st stop, I see more of you than my Mrs at the moment ;). Afterwards my pedals starting playing up, with the accelerator stuck on in the braking zones ::). After three run offs decided to call it a day as I was a danger to anyone close. Shame.

Sorry to Adam for tap early on, I did wait for you and I dont think you lost to much time.


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: Jeffrey on April 30, 2007, 09:11:23 AM +0100


Unofficial Lapchart (http://www.lapcharts.teamshark.org.uk/Lapcharts/Estoril Enduro Clubmen 29-04-2007/index.html)


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: Adam Parle on April 30, 2007, 09:24:29 AM +0100
Sorry to Adam for tap early on, I did wait for you and I dont think you lost to much time.

No probs, wasn't the biggest of impacts, just pushed me wide.  Took my time and made sure the damage wasn't repaired when I pitted .....  so the stop took a little longer than I wanted, but 6.5secs isn't too bad!  Gotta love the Vertigo for being able to get away with that (when you're not oggling the pit girls - Nick ;) ;D).


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: Jeffrey on April 30, 2007, 09:27:24 AM +0100
Small damage is repaired while the tyres are changed, so if there is only a few sec of damage, it's a good thing to repair it, as it will be done beofre the tyres are done and aero damage can cost you alot in the long run.


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: TinMan on April 30, 2007, 09:33:28 AM +0100

 my ADSL connection has cycled to a slower speed -


This seems to be what's happening. Is there a solution?

TC


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: Adam Parle on April 30, 2007, 09:34:28 AM +0100
Small damage is repaired while the tyres are changed, so if there is only a few sec of damage, it's a good thing to repair it, as it will be done beofre the tyres are done and aero damage can cost you alot in the long run.

At Silverstone I had some sort of aero damage after hitting a stranded Porker (net issues), and that was repaired when I pitted (I forgot to change the option to not repair).  Thankfully it didn't take much time to repair as I wasn't taking on tyres or fuel, and I had Pops 4 seconds behind me (or rather that was the gap when I pitted).

Same last night, not taking on tyres or fuel.  The car felt really good even after Ginsters tap, so rather than potentially losing a bunch of time getting a repair done when the car felt great, I decided to change to "don't repair" and get back out on track asap.


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: tarec on April 30, 2007, 09:43:12 AM +0100
Hi all,

Thx all for the great evening race,

me and lincescom , we are from Portugal and we take 1th and 2th place in GT2 in Estoril, so we win at home :)



Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: Paul968 on April 30, 2007, 09:51:49 AM +0100
That was a cracking first half of the race, with the cup cars in a close 4 way dice for lap after lap. Made a mistake defending against PRibiero early on and ended up last in the gravel (sorry to teamies Mo and Ginsters for threading the needle between you!), but got back on terms fairly quickly and joined in the cup train. Managed to get past Nev in the end, and TT pitted just ahead of Mo and me, but the next lap was not KerbCrawler's finest hour as we lost time trying to be too nice. Mo pitted next but again lost out with a car in his stall and I stopped the lap after. By the time I came out TT was 5 secs up the road, with me chasing Ginsters. After a while the gap was starting to close though and I was looking forward to another close fight, but it wasn't to be as TT went off after contact with a lapper :( Ian retired soon after and I was then left with an easy cruise to the finish.

I have to echo a few of the comments about some of the GTs. They often seemed to want to pass down the inside from some way back when they had no right to this, and I know of at least 2 cases where this ended up in contact. On more than one occasion I had to be alert and stay wide or risk contact, even when I really needed (and had every right) to turn in, and it shouldn't be like this.

Congrats to Backo and Linescom for the class wins.


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: Simon Gymer on April 30, 2007, 10:10:48 AM +0100
Sorry I didn't make the race. It was last minute decision to join in a GT3 in the Viper CC, did some laps in qualifying and then had to leave (real life). Maybe next Clubman race I'll stay for the race. Viper CC was quite good fun to drive once I'd dialled out most of the understeer, but it sort of hmm what's the word MELTED the softs within 2 laps, which made driving it sideways easy, but not very quick. 8)


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer on April 30, 2007, 10:43:25 AM +0100
my ADSL connection has cycled to a slower speed -
This seems to be what's happening. Is there a solution?

I've been trying without success to persuade Nildram to fix my line at 1MB/s. What you can do is reboot the router just before a race - that reduces the chances of the exchange deciding to lower the speed for a few hours - provided of course that it's starting speed (usually 2MB/s) works well enough to race over (which it most likely will).


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: popabawa on April 30, 2007, 10:46:36 AM +0100
On more than one occasion I had to be alert and stay wide or risk contact, even when I really needed (and had every right) to turn in, and it shouldn't be like this.

Absolutely, that was my experience on a couple of occasions as well.


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: Adam Parle on April 30, 2007, 11:05:51 AM +0100
On more than one occasion I had to be alert and stay wide or risk contact, even when I really needed (and had every right) to turn in, and it shouldn't be like this.

Yep, I recognize that too.


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: picnic on April 30, 2007, 11:39:18 AM +0100
If I was one of those I apologise, on several occasions the slower car seemed to stay wide as if to say, please take the corner. There is obviously a knack to getting passed the slower cars I'm still learning, on several occasions I'd lose a second or more to the car in front while getting through the back markers only to close the gap but to lose it again.

Having done last season as NGT and this as GT I think the harder job is the GT one (just) but if both parties aren't aware and cooporate lapping would be a nightmare.


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: Paul968 on April 30, 2007, 11:48:39 AM +0100
No Pete, you weren't one of those I had in mind.


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: Mark J on April 30, 2007, 12:24:00 PM +0100
If certain GT1 drivers have bull-dozed their way through then they should be penalised in some way, especially if contact was made, otherwise someone like myself who was a little more patient and even had to have extreme self restraint at some points in the race are losing out in track time to those who are not. >:(

And i dont want to start a mud flinging contest but Paul, you were unfortunately the worst driver i tried to lap last night for making absolutely no attempt to feather off or move aside enough to let a GT1 car through, which considering you were in a non-champ GT3 car wasn't really fair play. Perhaps when i got to you, you had just been bullied by another GT car but it seemed to me that you deliberately refused to budge from Gancho? right upto the senna parabolica costing me about 4+ seconds. Every other guy managed to ease off and adjust line enough to allow me to get through.
 I dont have a problem with it but just want to point out it works both ways. :angel:


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: Simon Gymer on April 30, 2007, 01:17:30 PM +0100
Having gone back to the "other" boat this season, by becoming a GT1 car that has to lap GT2/GT3 cars I can once again remind myself that it's actually difficult from both point of views. Judging what the slower car is going to do is difficult. You get some people who force you to overtake on a corner (slowing mid-corner and pulling to a different line) and others that let you go by on the straight (my preferred option). It's extremely difficult to judge it either way.

From a GT2/GT3 car you're constantly watching your mirrors and still trying to drive forward, the speed at which GT1 cars come up nowadays is incredible and you only have split seconds to work out what to do.

I think the best guideline to follow for GT1 cars is that if you're in any doubt then don't try it. Just wait for a better time. All the other cars are in the same boat, you rarely get held up much more than any other car over the course of an 80 minute race. Whatever you're going to do try and make it obvious and try not to change lines whilst being closely followed. Confusion is our enemy. :o


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer on April 30, 2007, 01:36:33 PM +0100
As someone who is also running his first season in the faster class, I noticed last night more than my previous race at Anderstorp that it's unfortunate that the 'better' drivers suffer more in terms of being overtaken under braking. I was under pressure to pass quickly for pretty much the whole race and those drivers I trusted (most notably Paul, TT, SbG, and Pops) I was much more likely to trust to make a pass under the brakes, which probably meany I held them up more than others, who I trusted less. :-\


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: mo on April 30, 2007, 01:39:32 PM +0100
Dont worry Dave, you can trust me too!!

Firstly I want to echo the thoughts of those who posted above - the behaviousr of lapping GT cars was appalling. I was almost run off the road twice, crashed into once when someone tried to go inside me into Gancho of all places, and saw some other crazy stuff up ahead too :( :(
Some of the worst I've ever seen......... and that was only what I saw personally.

Anyway the race in the GT3 car was great fun. There's such a close grid in the cup cars that it leads to excellent racing and I wont be missing the next one. Unfortunately I ended up lapping alone after my pit crew decided to give me no box when I stopped followed by refusing to give me any fuel later when I re-stopped. I've sacked them and sent them over to Legends Racing instead ;)

Cheers for the great racing TT, PRibeiro, Nevski and Paul, see you next time :)


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: Paul968 on April 30, 2007, 02:00:23 PM +0100
LOL Mark! I feel pretty splattered with mud now, and you do rather give the impression that you have a problem.  ;)

The situation that you mention is the one that stands out in my memory. You caught me in the middle of Gaucho so there was no way to let you past beforehand. The only real place was on the exit, but as you know this doesn't lead to a straight and there is very little room. I waited to see if you could get alongside on the right, in which case I would have let you go, but you stayed behind me so I took the racing line as I needed it for the next corner. Lifting there with you right behind would have been a big mistake. I then expected you to go round the outside on the parabolica but you waited for me to move over.  I filtered left when I saw that and let you through.

That section of track is very tricky to let a lapper by. Going offline risks throwing the car off the road (how many times have you gone wide at the left before para even when taking the racing line?) so I felt this was not wise. I'm sorry you got held up and it wasn't what I wanted, but you didn't really give me an easy chance to let you by without losing big time - sitting right on my bumper prevented a lift as you suggest I'm afraid.

The rules are pretty clear on this. The lappee stays on line and the lapper finds a way past. In equal cars there may be a need to blend off the throttle, but in this case you had about 50% more power as well as more grip. To me it was just an unfortunate case where you lost out by catching a slower car at the wrong time.

As for the fact that I was not scoring, when someone tells me that I have to jump out of the way of scoring cars then I'll do it (although to be honest I probably wouldn't bother racing if this was the case). What is the point of bigger grids if the extra cars in the race don't affect the scoring ones? I certainly looked to let faster cars by as easily as possible, more so when I wasn't fighting directly with another car, but there are limits.

To me it doesn't work both ways. The issue I complained about is clearly against the rules. The issue you mention is nothing like that, and suggesting that I can't complain about poor driving unless I leap out of your way is a bit strong.

PS 4+ seconds? By my reckoning you were only 0.9 slower than the next 2 laps  :P


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: Adam Parle on April 30, 2007, 02:05:47 PM +0100
LOL Mark! I feel pretty splattered with mud now...

 ;D ;D



Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: Truetom on April 30, 2007, 03:42:25 PM +0100
I always feel I have to jump outta way while I race as a guest in Clubmen Endurance, always feel guilty when I hold scoring cars, either GT1s or GT2s/GTCs. It was funny in the begining of the race when 4 GT3s were mixed with Gerald and Ginsters, we seemed all tangled up.  ;D

After my close meeting  ::)  with a lapping GT1 my lead of 5 sec from Paul968 turned into being 10+ sec behind I knew that even if I drive without any mistakes and fast I wouldn't catch him, not in the last 15 minutes, so I quit. As for the lapping GT1 I must say he was on cold tyres as he just came outta pit and I think in normal circumstances he would probably pass without cotact. As he was in a scoring car, fighting for position I just hope he didn't lose too much time. It's hard for a GT1 drivers to pass safely in a twisty track like Estoril. I remember when Backo was lapping us the first time. I went outta way and the car in front (mo, Richard?) coulnd't see him on time and Backo made it through using a slalom technique.  ;D  Risky move, for both parties.  :-\  I don't think he would do it in real race. I wouldn't even do it in a simulation.

I had a good race until pitting, we were having some close racing with Paul968, mo and Nevski.  :)

TT


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: Mark J on April 30, 2007, 06:11:23 PM +0100
Nope, didnt have a problem Paul, but alas you were wrong in your description, i closed up before the entry to gancho, meaning you knew i was there and could have eased over to the left as others had done when i caught them in that area. But you stayed central to the track uphill and along the racing line upto the next right/left before the main parabolica turn. In the heat of battle it felt like i was being badly blocked but in the cold light of day is nothing to lose sleep over  :angel:
I am pretty certain that it cost more than 0.9 of a second too  ;)

But anyway would rather leave it at that, as you mention, its a nasty area for two cars with a huge performance gap to share.  :angel:


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: Kerr on April 30, 2007, 06:57:01 PM +0100
It's an area that there is no consistency and that is what is the most confusing part of it. It is difficult for the slower cars to pay full attention to what is happening behind them when there is so much to worry about ahead. Like GT1 cars they are in a race too and losing a second or two on every pass can and will cost a better finishing position. Likewise for GT1's.

What causes most trouble is there is no set rules for passing adopted by racers. Most guys give a flash and you know the score and can read the situation, and that is very helpful.

Some expect you to follow and either pass on the next main straight, but like last night that can mean following for about 6 corners or you have to pull off an overtaking manoeuvre.

Some slow down and stay on racing line and others even slow and move off it which can cause trouble.

Last night a few people used the sudden braking technique, which can really catch you out.

Everybody makes snap decisions on track and I'm sure on reflection and with aid's of replays see it's a bad call. I have never seen a malicious accident on here.

How about before each race a small thread just to discuss passing points and methods of passing? Just a suggestion to to stop the confusion and stop any bad feeling/mud slinging


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: Paul968 on April 30, 2007, 07:00:54 PM +0100
Not sure if you are suggesting that I could have let you past before gaucho, because this wasn't on IMO? I don't see how I was wrong in the description - you were not close enough to pass before gaucho and I didn't feel it was right to go well offline on the exit as you then cannot make the left following.

I'd rather you didn't use the 'B' word btw, as this was anything but blocking IMO.

For the record, here are your lap times around incident:

21       1.39.295
22       1.36.752
23       1.39.679
24       1.38.642         Our 'meeting'
25       1.37.834
26       1.37.792

The crux of this is about whether I should be prepared to lose a lot of time to let you past when I'm in the middle of a close fight ahead and behind. I'd say that this is all part of the race, and I wouldn't expect anyone else to do differently, especially with the long straight coming up, but you clearly don't see it that way. I suppose we will have to agree to differ  :fencing:  :)




Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer on April 30, 2007, 07:02:28 PM +0100
How about before each race a small thread just to discuss passing points and methods of passing? Just a suggestion to to stop the confusion and stop any bad feeling/mud slinging

The problems with relying on that are that
  • there will be arguments afterwards about whether somebody actually followed the agreements or not;
  • nobody will be able to remember exactly what they are supposed to do or where;
  • people will start to rely on being told what to do instead of using their noggins.

There are so many different cars with such a range of capabilities, and so many different corners at each track, that I doubt we could actually make hard and fast rules covering them and still remember them.


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer on April 30, 2007, 07:03:16 PM +0100
Paul and Mark - both of you know better than to slip into discussions of particular on track 'discussions' in public. Please take it offline or file reports as normal. Thanks.


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: Simon Gymer on April 30, 2007, 07:08:29 PM +0100
How about before each race a small thread just to discuss passing points and methods of passing? Just a suggestion to to stop the confusion and stop any bad feeling/mud slinging

The problems with relying on that are that
  • there will be arguments afterwards about whether somebody actually followed the agreements or not;
  • nobody will be able to remember exactly what they are supposed to do or where;
  • people will start to rely on being told what to do instead of using their noggins.

There are so many different cars with such a range of capabilities, and so many different corners at each track, that I doubt we could actually make hard and fast rules covering them and still remember them.

You missed a point, getting EVERYONE to read all the info is hard, we know it's hard to get everyone to read the full race post.

Nice idea though.


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: Truetom on April 30, 2007, 08:23:18 PM +0100
I don't think making more rules will solve anything as it never happens exactly the same. More patience from both parties and sensible moves, that will solve problems.  :)
Also - don't post until the red mist in your eyes fades a bit.  ;D  I feel I have a more objective view over the incident on the next day, after I see the replay.  ;)

TT


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: pribeiro on April 30, 2007, 08:46:25 PM +0100
I don't think making more rules will solve anything as it never happens exactly the same. More patience from both parties and sensible moves, that will solve problems.  :)
Also - don't post until the red mist in your eyes fades a bit.  ;D  I feel I have a more objective view over the incident on the next day, after I see the replay.  ;)

TT

I complety agree, that way we dont complain nosense issues >:(


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: Mark J on April 30, 2007, 09:38:56 PM +0100
is that No sense or nonsence  ??? ;D

As for me and Paul  :-*  like i said, not a problem. Problem with just reading script on a forum is you cant see the other persons facial features or eyes to judge the mood they are speaking in...i speak from bitter experience with (now) ex-girlfriends  ::)  :)


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: pribeiro on April 30, 2007, 10:26:27 PM +0100
is that No sense or nonsence  ??? ;D

As for me and Paul  :-*  like i said, not a problem. Problem with just reading script on a forum is you cant see the other persons facial features or eyes to judge the mood they are speaking in...i speak from bitter experience with (now) ex-girlfriends  ::)  :)

nonsense  :-[

 :)


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer on May 01, 2007, 07:54:06 AM +0100
Lost ages in the pit stop again must sort that out some how , but how?

I posted some useful numbers (http://www.teamshark.org.uk/forums/index.php?topic=939.0) on our forums, Gerald. In GT2 and GTC, most cars will do at least 80 minutes without adding fuel, which saves time at the expense of speed early in the race.


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: popabawa on May 01, 2007, 09:26:18 AM +0100
I think Dave makes a good point, it's much easier to deal with the drivers you trust, and that works both ways. If I know someone isn't going to do something I don't expect then I can concentrate on driving as well as I can until there's an opportunity to overtake, I think that means the overtaking car loses less time than if I'm watching my mirrors and driving slightly defensively to protect myself. I'm afraid I'm not good enough to drive well AND concentrate on the car behind!

And just to make myself totally clear, this ISN'T a general bitch about GT1's, nearly all of you are absolute gents -> :euro:

Partly the reason for bringing it up is so the other drivers are aware of the issue and encourage you to report it. The only way to sort this out is through reporting the incidents, it's not going to get fixed on here.


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: Jure on May 01, 2007, 11:14:40 AM +0100
Right, here's my 2 cents on the race.

After practicing for 15 laps on Saturday (my first outing in Estoril) I felt... depressed, even toyed with idea of letting this race by since I felt I'd be a danger to rest of the drivers.  ;D

On Sunday I put in some 40 laps prior to race start, fixing setup relatively well (should read: stable enough not to butcher cars around me). Strategy was simple: finish the race, stay out of  trouble.

Decided to start on medium-hard tyres with 100L of fuel giving me projected 33 laps, warm-up lap included, then switching to soft-medium for last 16 laps. Of course that meant sacrificing tyre pressure in first (longer) stint, leaving them a bit underinflated in order to provide softs/mediums with low enough pressure which wouldn't cause serious overheating in second stint.

Turns out weather (and track temperature) played a big role in tyre temps. First stint left me on 194-195kPa tyre pressure, resulting in low tyre temp and unpredictable handling. And, as we all know, unpredictable handling causes sudden rear-end, erm, movement. ::) Lap 6: off we go, did a horrific 1.51.smthn lap (erratic return to track=another spin into the barrier etc, don't ask  ;D ::) ), decided to calm down and just do my race (whatever that meant  ;D ) but, unfortunately, that also meant even lower tyre pressure, since I did not abuse the car sufficiently enough to keep the tyres on a reasonable temperature level, hence losing additional half a second per lap.

Anyway, had some more outings and/or crappy laps, stayed out too long (lost pace during lap 28-33, some 2 secs per lap), fearing if I'd not stay out for maximum possible distance, I'd suffer tyre wear in my second stint. Big mistake. Turns out my second stint did NOT wear tyres at all, since they were at 200kPa and optimal temp. Pace proved it. Tried to hunt down Gizmo (although I felt it's mission impossible I gave it a try anyway, hoping for Gizmo's mistake  ;D Funny, I thought Gizmo let off his pace and not being that slow "for real" anyway.)

Pity, strategy was, apparently, a correct one, but execution... sucked. Mind you, I was "discovering" correct racing lines throughout the race itself (and getting pissed off by it since I went "well, this knowledge would help setting up the car properly").

Big apologies to backmarkers I made contact with, wasn't intentional at all, my braking and cornering capabilities varied from lap to lap due to tyre temps, simply slid into a yellow Porsche in a tight left hander (no idea about corner name  ;D ) and spun him off. Similar stuff with 2 more cars, braked early, planning for a pass under power, but car just didn't stop, hence a contact (will check replay to get the names and apologise to appropriate drivers).

Nice track to race at... at least to those who like flying a jet plane in a living room.  ;D


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 Endurance Clubmen - Estoril (GP) - Apr 29
Post by: Truetom on May 01, 2007, 06:55:32 PM +0100
Big apologies to backmarkers I made contact with, wasn't intentional at all, my braking and cornering capabilities varied from lap to lap due to tyre temps, simply slid into a yellow Porsche in a tight left hander (no idea about corner name  ;D ) and spun him off.

That would be me. You owe me a beer in Old London Pub in Trzin!  8)

TT