SimRacing.org.uk

NGT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 1 at Barcelona

Date: Tuesday 12th July

Practice 1: 8:45pm (15 mins)
Qual 2: 9:00pm (15 mins)
Warmup: 9:15pm (2 mins)
Race: 9:17pm (30 mins)

Cars allowed: Any NGT car or 911 Bi-Turbo or Mosler or Vertigo or Morgan. (Lotus Elise, BMW Z3M, Porsche GT3 Cup are allowed but will not score points.)

Notes:
(1) Please try to arrive 15 minutes early during Practice 1.
(2) Server Password will be emailed to those registered racers for this championship. This means you must ensure you have registered a valid email address on the forums as this will be the address used to inform drivers of the password. If you have not received the password by the day of the event, please contact a member of the admin team to get the password.
(3) See  UKGTR Season 1 Info (http://www.ukgtr.org/series.php?series=103) for general Season 1 info.
(4) Please make sure you are fully aware of the UKGTR Rules (http://www.ukgtr.org/rules.php)

Allright - here we go!!

Cheers

Rob

Where can I find the odds for Race 1 then?  ;D

Pops.

great

Weather = random? :-\

Will be dry for sprint races.

Man, if you can score points in an Elise they ought to count double toward the championship ;)

Must admit I'm a bit nervous! Barcelona is a track I quite like but I'm not at all competitive on it- it's one of those ones where I feel fast and smooth but the finish line still comes a couple of seconds too late. I'll be chuffed if I can finish mid table :-\

I applied for N-GT and GT champs.... am I in any of them?!

Dave your a peach :)

I'll be there.

good o, c u all there then :-O

I'm stupidly excited about the first race tonight  ;D Can't wait.

Opposition looks very tough from where I'm sitting so I'm targetting a 'top 15' finish as being a satisfactory result for me. Nothing like aiming high eh?  :)

Good luck all (not that I'm hoping for a massive T1 pile-up to let me through, oh-no, not at all  ;))

Pops

I still haven't decided which damn car I'm taking yet! Just can't choose, not fast enough in any of them.  :o
Probably end up taking Mosler or F360.

Last time I looked you were fast enough...  :D

What about the Elise?  ;)

Pops

Looks like I'm running at 1:50 race pace  :-[

I like the track but for some reason don't have great pace. And I'm struggling to et enough heat into the fronts with softs- they sit at about 70 degrees. Oh well, looking forward to it and try not to lap me twice.

Looks like we might be quite close then Paul :)

I did a 30min race against the AI last night at pretty much 1:49-1:50 laps with a couple of 1:48's thrown in.

Same problem with the front-right tyre, just can't get any temp into it.

Pops.

I'm a reserve in both Sprints and If I don't get in (which I'm not even sure I will try) I plan to run a 1hr long race distance in preperation for the endurance race. If any of you wish to join me for a bit of race/practice I'll be in the UKGTR room pre-race.

Fozzmeister

Might see you there Fozz.
Need as much pracie as I can get.
Don.

It could be that because this is my first on-line racing championship, Ive really nervous about this all day.........nervous and excited ;)

I even (rather sadly) dreamt about it last night, not sure what Mrs Wil thought about my writhing from side to side trying to control the Mosler through turn 1.   :D

I've heard it called all sorts of things in my time, but

'writhing from side to side trying to control the Mosler through turn 1.' is a new one for me!

 ;D

Lol 'Mosler', I'm going to use that one :)

....no, wait........erm.......... :(

almost missed it, but i will be there, if i have read it correct i am doing the endurance and ngt full time

Bet she drew the line at a 3-point turn though eh?  ;)

Pops

Looking forward to this!

See you all there tonight

Lol, '3 point turn' I'm using that too. And I'll be clipping the apex of someones' 'turn one' as well  ;)
Come to think of it the car related innuendo possibilities are so endless they make my head hurt  ;D

Im assuming that were using picnics server? Joining in the lobby?

DAmn! Can't reach a god damn yahoo mail!!!!!!!!!!! HELP!  :o

Full report to follow but I must apologise profusely to PaulW, with whom I was having a good dice until I missed my braking point for turn 1 by about 10 metres and shunted him unceremoniously into the gravel. :-[ Mea maxima culpa. :'(

Felt so guilty I did a stop and go.

Best racing I've had online so far - Thx guys!

Replay available on the UKGTR website  :)

Phew!!!

Qualified 3rd (nice :D ) and got jumped by Bernie in the Bi-Turbo at the start with Truetom in behind me.  We stayed like that for much of the race until Bernie got past Shark then Shark had a go back and the two collided!  I nipped past Bernie only for him to outbrake me later on in the lap and get 3rd back.  Then we were all in a line as we came to lap a black Ferrari on the main straight.  When we got to the end of it, I braked a bit early and so did Bernie.  I was too close and nudged him at T1, spinning us both :(  We both recovered and duly finished 3rd and 4th as we had been before.

Sorry Bernie.  That battle was too good to end like that  :'(

That definitely had a little extra "frisson" over a fun race and was all the more enjoyable for it.
As I've said I'm off pace at Barca and so was pleased to get a PB 1:46 in qualifying and start 8th.

I found out why my times are fractionally off- I brake just slightly too early in comparrison to everyone else. Really enjoyed a tough fight with Iain, Pops and Fozz for about 4 laps- we swapped places a few times there eh guys? I was generally faster out of the corners but compromised when it came to the big stops Barca has. Eventually got to the front of that bunch and promptly spun it while trying to figure out if my tyres were too hot or not- they weren't before the spin but certainly were afterwards. Let everyone go by and rejoined.

Eventually Dave caught me up and overtook me, made a mistake at the last corner and I grabbed the place back. Got a big shunt from behind at the big stop into turn one and we both made our aquaintence with the barriers. Why does it take so long to get out of the sand there? No worries Dave, haven't looked at the replay but definitely felt like just one of those things. I can't believe, however, that you did a stop/go- you nutter! Impressed to bits with that. Let a few people past and found the car still worked! Bonus! Tailed Jam for a few laps but just couldn't pass you m8.

NP Mike, like u say a great battle, we both got going in the same postions as pre spin so no harm done really.

Race report:

Tootling around on formation lap and touch the inside of the curb on turn 3, instantly happy when i didn't go off because I really wasn't totally concentrating then... Hang on, somethings up, wheels a bit easy to turn... Oh SH***T, thats bad, Force feedback seems to have turned off, not just off but totally disabled so I don't even have a "spring" to help me. I contemplated retiring but figured I'd see how I go.

At about lap three, while still getting used to my new highly spinny wheel, I braked later than Brian Needham into Seat and I think Brian slowed his car down to a greater degree than I was capable of near the apex and I just tagged him in at the rear left spinning him into the gravel (sorry), this was just a stupid move. A few laps later I was slow out of the final corner and Iain got a good run at me, I looked back using the look L&R buttons to see his progress and and oooo that's a mistake... I start wobbling all over down the pit straight and without any FF to direct me back to centre I stuggle to get it lined up again (I'm honestly not trying to block here, I'm wobbling down all the straights to some degree!). Anyway Iain tries to go up the inside into Elf and I seem to tag him, I have my doubts that I was the root cause (watching the replay I notice he was spinning already) but decide to let him through later on as soon as its safe.

While thinking about this I mange to let PaulW get close at Repsol by just totally arsing it up, and then did the same thing at Seat letting him through, I don't usually make it so easy... I then noticed that Iain was behind me and I decided to let him through at La Caixa which nearly goes all wrong because PaulW spins infront of me meaning i have to crawl around him and let Iain up 2 places, I on the other hand find that PaulW has stopped spinning and is now facing the correct way so I don't even get to take advantage of his mistke  >:(

Thankfully it seems PaulW is a little slower than me and I start harrassing him a little... He eventually makes a mistake into the corners between Seat and Campsa spinning into the wall. I quickly close the gap to Iain which takes me about three laps, at which point when I get really close there's a Vertigo parked right before Campsa, Iain goes to the left taking a bit of grass and a few sparks, I think briefly about going right but I'm really focused on Iain's rear so follow him skimming the grass around the Vertigo, thankfully its not moving very fast (if at all, probably noticed us) so it doesn't cost either of us anything.... Back to Iain, Who I'm behind for about another two laps before he shafts it at exactly the same place as PaulW.

I do two more laps with reasonable effort and noticing that I'm about 10 seconds up on whoever is behind me, probably Iain or PaulW both of whom I was felt slightly faster than, and about 20 seconds to the guys infront, with no FF decide just cruise the rest, I'm probably 0.5-1sec off my race pace anyway because of my FF problem. The rest of the race was totally uneventful except a touch of grass into La Caixa which made me miss my braking point, thankfully I kept it all cool, and didn't lock and just did the wall of death thing around the outside.

In the end I think 6th was a pretty realistic and deserved finishing position for me this time out, although I wonder what my penalty will be for the Brian Needham incident... Perhaps I (quite rightly) will lose some time/places for that.

Fozzmeister

PS. I've submitted my incidents to the FMI, is there anything else I need to do?

Bernie & Mike!

The little spin you two had cost me 3rd place! You were spinning and as I was about 2 sec behind Mike I said: "There's my chance!" Came through and just about made it when Mike nudged me and I also spun. When I recovered I was back in 5th place.

No hard feeling though, I didn't deserve better than 5th place anyway. Best I could do was 1 sec behind Mike but otherwise I was about 2 - 3 sec behind - all the time, lol ! So, 5th is just about right as 6th (Fozzmeister) was quite far behind.

I must say I was a bit dissapointed with my performance. I practiced in the afternoon and I made 1:44:7 in the race with AI. Looking at GTRank I was expecting to go for the top but just couldn't get enough speed together. All in all I'm ok with the fact that I didn't screw up - that spin wasn't caused by me. Good race and the guys who I lapped let me through very smoothly, very fair. Thank you! Hopefully other races will be like this.

Race results are available here:

http://www.filsca.com/results,gt,1000253,1361,2657,221,0

Mike Cooper isn't showing up as registered for the NGT Sprint league, so I've had to exclude his result for now (I'll re-upload when this is fixed). In the driver standings it's also awarding seperate points for the G2 & NGT classes, which we're looking into.

It was 9:30 when I realised this race was running......BUM :(

I was initially gutted at my 19th place but in retrospect, I'm taking a lot of positives out of the race.

Happy to report absolutely no technical problems  :D

The excitement building through practice and qualifying was fantastic, definately a different feel than the fun races.

Q'd in 10 which was much better than I'd anticipated, then had 3 brilliant laps handily in 9th following Fozz, Iain & PaulW. They were 'fully involved' in the racing, great to watch. A big confidence booster knowing I could keep pace there (at least for a while!).

Then, disaster; managed to spin, hit the wall and a busted splitter and a puncture was the result and I lost a lap in the pits. Must have just pushed a bit too hard, desparately disappoining as I'd run about 50 laps over the last few days and not managed to make that particular mistake once.  :( A lesson to be learned about unscheduled pit-stop's too. I'd not paid any attention to my pit strategy so I ended up with a totally full tank of fuel to boot which didn't help...  ;D

Have to apologise to Paul968 as I made a right pig's ear of letting him past on the last lap, hope it didn't give you too much cause for concern, I was horrified until I realised there was going to be no contact  :-[

Absolutely brilliant fun, can't wait 'til next week!

Pops.

was well good!!!

i was stuggling with frame rate, have been in a couple of games dont know why!

was a little dissapointed to be well off my normal times in quali but never mind!

started 7th odd i forget lol

PaulW was behind me, and going faster and i was going faster than fozz at the start, so that was quite interesting

Paul was having some cracks at me and i was managing to keep him back for a while

first time i got near enough to fozz i had to avoid a slow car so i lost a bit of time, i think this was where PaulW got in front, which was kinda useful, as he was the fastest at the time, he caught fozz and their battling let me catch up again, i cant remember exactly, but i think paul got in front then i tried to make an ambitious move past fozz and span

fozz must have got used to his tech probs at this moment and he started battling with paul so i again caught up

then to my luck, Paul went a bit off line and span, also fozz seemed to go wide and must have had to slow down to stop a crash or something, so i went off on my merry way

started to relax a little bit as i was in front and i had just done some pressured driving, which was my mistake as fozz had started catching fast

i gradually heard his engine getting louder and louder, and i was hoping to maybe put the moves he ususally tried on me when he is in front except disaster struck and i just rive into a wall :( :( :(

i dunno why, but after that i was settled in 7th

nice race

when i fix my pc the next one will be better ;D

I was trying to let you through! I thought I spun you into turn one on the same lap, so I went wide (there's always grip up there on that corner). Unfortunately it all went pear shaped when PaulW spun totally blocking my path... I had to crawl around him to the inside to avoid contact.

Still it was about this time when I was just really starting to get comfy with my spinny wheel and could start pushing a little instead watching my wheel to see how far i'd turned it!

Considering my problems I was well happy with 6th

Fozzmeister

it was a good race, but i completely sucked big time, managed to finish on 16e , but started on 17e place, so that is not that good, don't know what it was but couldn't get the speed  up. and had some hardtime to keep the car straight when braking.

ahh wel next better, and barca isn't my favorite track anyways.

I was distinctly dissapointed with my qualification, Id done a few 47's in practice in race trim, then in qual I got bitten by the 1fps bug, had to drop out and come back and only had time for one lap, so qual was 16th.

Sneaked past Dave at the start, then one more and from then people seemed to drop like flies, think I got upto 9th, then spun under pressure from a black 360 filling my mirror, rejoined in about 13th only to be tagged and spun again.

Ended in 15th, which is a positive I guess, since I at least went forward from quals.

Have to say that I was shaking like a leaf in the 1st few laps trying to fend off Dave and the 360, and I really really need to extend my braking points, I seem to lose soooo much into the heavy braking that its just not real.

Roll on Magny.............better get some practice me-thinks ;)

Rather a contrast with recent races for me, in that everything went perfectly! I knew I was in with a good shout, having found a peach of a 360 setup a few days ago, and as it turned out I got pole by some margin. I did feel that there was a bit less grip in qual, as the tail was a bit lively - did anyone else get that impression?

The race was fairly uneventful, as I gradually eased away from Simon and the chasing pack. The backmarkers were very polite, although I had a couple of moments. First when Rufbtr let me past at Seat by slowing down and staying wide, where I wasn't expecting it and could easily have locked up and rear ended him (luckily I was on the ball and ducked down the inside). Although this way probably helps me by losing least time, I'd suggest waiting till round the corner and then just let me past by not accelerating as hard. The other moment was on the last lap with Popa, when he stayed on the left to let me by into La Caixa, but missed his braking point and nearly took me off mid corner :o The best thing here would have been for Popa to stay on the racing line and let me move off it. As long as you just blend out of the throttle a touch to let me get by then its much safer.

Anyway, all's well that ends well - 10 points in the bag and roll on Magny Cours!

Paul

sorry paul but i had too take it slow, otherwise i would have spun, and maybe took us bout out.

Fair enough - looked at the time like you were just trying to be nice  :)

i had a couple of spins in that corner before, so i was taking it easier to make it to the finish, my setup was completely bollocks.

Can I ask? Are you the "court" in the FMI? If so is there a standin when there are incidents involving you?

Fozzmeister

Yes, absolutely. Lesson well and truly learned.  :-[

Pops.

No, I am, but you are right - if I am involved then someone else will judge.

No, I got my best time a F360 in qualifying for some time, only 0.2 off my PB.
I also knew I was in for a possible podium as my race pace was only a 0.5 -> 1 sec down on qualifying pace.

OK that's cool will there be a Dave style incident report, It's nice to know what happened to you competitors, as you may gain places while not being involved.

Does a drive through (if you choose to do one) work in lowering penalties, likewise if you nurf someone then re-let them through obviously also?

While I'm sure Dave's drive through that he did after contact with PaulW(?) was honarable, what happens if for instance if you notice you didn't put enough engine vent in, and you notice you aint going to make the end but your not "showing" yet. obviously you'd drive through, saving yourself penalties for next race. The court would just see someone who who honorably took a drive through and blew up X number of laps later.

Actually I was wrong - Dave will also be judging. Yes, there will be a report on the incident, although we are still working out how to work this with the court system.

We haven't discussed the issue yet, but I would say that a drive through would reduce your penalty, yes.

We can't stop the situation you mention, except to say that I expect we will use a sort of yellow card system like UKGPL - each penalty you get increases the penalty for next time, so that repeat offenders come off much worse and are encouraged to mend their ways.

Paul

You know everyone is going to be fair here though, or the whole thing falls apart. It's not my call of course but I don't want a penalty applied in this case- it was a simple missed braking point, on any corner other than the huge stop of turn one it wouldn't have had such dramatic results. Oh, and as I'm far from perfect ;) it's the sort of thing I can imagine doing myself (and indeed other drivers here did last night) at some point. A malicious block or aggressive following with no thought for the driver in fronts braking point, and I'll bleat like a lamb though :)

Agreed Paul, there's a very fine line between recklessness and incompetance.

I've just discovered I was involved in an incident with Picic which I had no idea had happened. Picnic suffered as he left the track but it was down to my inexperince / incompetance but I'm guessing it could easily have been interpreted as reckless or overly-agressive driving.

Pops.

At the time I was annoyed BUT Pops was not to blame here IMHO. Once I saw the replay it was obvious he never saw me as I wasn't in front, from my perspective I was passing just prior to the braking zone and sould have been clear. A large sideways difference on track obviously leaves a much larger blind spot than I imagined. I was not passed, even though I believed I was, when I turned in :( I'm glad it didn't affect you Pops and compromise your race

I was blissfully ignorant ("as usual" chimes in Mrs Pops  ;D) of the whole affair.

Pops.

I have not seen the incident, and to be honest I probably won't bother watching. I'm certainly not saying that Dave should get or not get a penalty (I can't having not seen it), and/or anything else. Nor am I saying that letting someone through after an incident, or taking a stop/go sould be given no wieght or get them off completely. As with virtually everthing there is no black and white, only shades of gray.

Ideally we'd have a controller with a birds eye view of everything and he/she could select a car and say "stop/go" or whatever while the race is on, this is not viable at all with GTR, and probably not anything else.

Fozzmeister

PS I'm also far from perfect (I'm sure I have at least some penalties coming to me from that race), as are most people here, that is why we play at being pro's instead of being them :-)

Im probably showing a touch of n00biness here, but could someone explain the court and penalties system (in another thread or by email if necessary). Im fairly sure I didnt cause any problems for anyone, but like Pops says, sometimes you just dont even know, so Id like to know what the deal is etc.

Ta.

Phil.

What should probably happen is that we should all download the replay and watch the race noting any incidents that you were involved in (i'll leave it to others to define what an 'incident is ;))

Then, when you log on to FILSCA, you should submit a report for each incident.

When an incident is logged, you get an email (which is how I got to know about the incident with Picnic!) so you always get a chance to respond.

As I understand it, it's then down to Paul & Dave to judge the incidents and then to hand out any suitable penalties. If you DON'T submit a report for an incident you were involved in, it makes it difficult for the judges to see your side of the story so you may be at a disadvantage.

That help?

Pops.

Just what are you saying then? you should have been a lawyer ;)

The current system will be cool for my money. Sure, a couple of the drivers competing are doing the judging also, but it would be blindingly obvious if a dodgy decision was made on an incident involving those drivers so for that reason alone I don't think it'll happen. The voluntery stop/go was a good demonstration of the spirit of fair play at UKGTR. Can't promise to do the same myself though ;)

Yep, sorry Fozz and Iain, that was me in the Vertigo. Id spun off and was just rejoining when I heard and saw the pair of you approaching me. My thought process was that as I was on the racing line I should just wait until you both clear me, rather than trying to quickly move over to the other side of the track as that could have caused mayhem.

I think Im right in saying that slower cars should keep to the racing line and it is up to the faster car to move around - not sure if it was the right thing to do in this case as I was stationary, but that was my thinking, and fortunately like you say, it didnt cause any major problem.

I tried throughout the race to allow faster cars to pass, and by enlarge, without seeing the replay yet, I think I did that part ok (famous last words). Just gotta work on being one of those faster cars  ;)

Does this count as an incident to be logged?

Apart from the above I had a great time. Its quite a feeling of tension I experience when I see someone approaching from behind (ooer missus), hands tighten their grip and palms start sweating under the pressure!

I had a steady start and was lapping consistently until 4th or 5th lap when I was taken out by a black 360 on the entrance to Repsol, shoving me across the track into the now familiar sand! Got back going again and after one or two skirmishes beached the thing with about 2 laps left, meaning I had to retire!

Had a great time though and cant wait for next tuesday - has anyone got directions to Magny-Cours?

Cheers

Rob

I'm not saying the system is poor at the moment, or that I or anybody else can come up with anything better. I'm merely saying that any system has weaknesses. for me if I were out of the points the chance of me doing a stop go would be far greater than if i were battling for points, And to be honest if I spotted I was going to slip further in a race (engine, fuel, tires, blah blah) I would definetely be doing a stop/go in the hope of lessening the impact of any penatly while costing myself as little as possible.

Likewise If somebody is severely underachieving compared to thier normal pace, I would not be happy with the court being more lenient because they did a stop go, particularly if it were somebody who is usually in the points, and is out of them when the incident occured.

It is a strange idea as well "Mr Judge, I held up Cleethorpes Post Office, but afterwards I cut off my little finger afterwards so I think we are even now".

On the other hand If I'm battling for first with someone (unlikely granted) and get nurfed out, the cost of somebody doing a stop/go is very high for them.

As I said, nothing but shades of gray

I did like the public shame of Dave's incident reports on one side (this is also a form of punishment for mistakes, although prolly not intended as such), and on the other side I liked documented evidence that you were nurfed out by XYZ and it was not your fault.

I hope this isn't taken as me wanting blood for other peoples mistakes. Truth be known I'm going to be one of those taking heat after Barcelona.

Fozzmeister

I'm not really getting involved properly as its all way above me and im quite happy to use the system on the site but!

the real life equivilant is not?


elo mr judge i help up the post office but i plead guilty so let me off a bit

innit?

You made the right call there, the fact that I didn't know which way to go is definately means you did, Sure it cost me, and it cost Iain, but actually the guys up the road were miles infront, so actually it cost nobody  :)


Yeh, your right, It's always dangerous to be slow on the racing line, but if the line is next to the edge where your off the road, you have to cross it. There was no way you could have known we were coming until you saw us.


I won't be, I also doubt Iain will (he's logged an incident between both of us already), watch your email and if it comes up then log it too. Personally  from my view I don't see how I (or anybody else) could complain.

Fozzmeister

im not reporting it

i only reported the one of me and fozz cuz there was contact and i thought we were supposed to o.O

Good point Tis up to the judge to listen or not.

Fozzmeister

The incident to log is the one with the black 360.

Thar you go Rob.


Certainly I expected you to. What does o.O mean btw?

Thanks Fozz and Iain, and yes Paul I will be reporting that incident, just about to view the replay.

Cheers

Rob

The point about reducing a penalty is that the penalty is given partly to take away what was gained by a bad move. If a driver gives away several places voluntarily then there is less need to take something away. Think of it as community service :) We would much rather that drivers did this as a) it shows the other driver you accept responsibility and b) it gives the other driver their rightful place on the track back again.

Having said all that, the penalty system has not been finalised, so watch this space.

its my im not sure face o.O

i dunno, i mostly put it out of habit now, a bit like :-s i guess

[/spam]

I hope the incident with the black 360 wasnt my black 360 :-|

edit : checked it wasnt me ;D

It's like you're opening one eye more than the other 0_o :)

I take your point about the lessening of post-race penalties if you took a stop/go when in a point scoring position vs nowhere near the points and therefore nowhere near loosing as much. I think taking a voluntery stop/go is a worthy and honourable thing to do but open to exploitation as described by Fozz above.

There needs to be a better way that UKGTR could use, perhaps the nudger could get moved back on the grid by the same number of places as the nudgee lost at the next race?
Except we'd have to do that manually and that could cause chaos on the formation lap. The nudgee could loose position(s) in the final points calculation at the end of the race?

It's complicated, and something we've been through and refined over many years in UKGPL. The problem is that we need to fit in with the Filsca system at the moment, which is throwing a few spanners in the works. As I've said before, there will probably also be a system which deters repeated bad driving, which is what we are really trying to achieve. There will certainly not be any way for a driver to easily drive badly without punishment. It's a bit pointless speculating about loopholes when you don't know what the system will be yet, so I suggest we leave this discussion until things are firmed up.

Paul

Well it seems it was fully incident packed race last night!!! I was fullly intending to take part, but me being me managed to get heat stroke yesterday putting up a new fence and spent the entire night talking to god on the big white telephone  :(


I Will be trying to race tonight in the GT Sprint, but still not 100% over it yet so I'll see how it goes

I think its like the crazy people in films iwth one eye bigger than the other

Either that or a drug crazed Patrick Moore

ROFL !!!!!  ;D

Hey m8 hope ur ok.

By the way I have a big tub of creosote and an untreated fence, how are you fixed?  ;)

Cheers

Rob