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UKGTR => UKGTR Races => Topic started by: Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer on June 18, 2007, 08:46:44 PM +0100



Title: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer on June 18, 2007, 08:46:44 PM +0100
Practice 1:20:15(10 mins)full time drivers only
Practice 2:20:25(10 mins)reserves may join too
Qual 2:20:35(20 mins)
Race:21:00(40 minutes)note: no warmup!

Cars allowed: any GT1 or G2 from the UKGTR Skin Pack v2.4 (https://www.simracing.org.uk/index.php?pid=27) (G2 cars will not score points).
Weather: Dry
Track: Oschersleben GP
Race Start Time: 14:00 (rolling start)

Server: UKGTR GT1 Sprint
Password: available from the event page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/index.php?ind=lm2&event=298) (see the Show Password link under the announcement text)

Notes:
(1) Please make sure you are fully aware of the UKGTR Rules (https://www.simracing.org.uk/index.php?pid=7) - especially the speed limiter starting procedure and the rules about in-game chat messages.
(2) Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/index.php?ind=lm2&group=50)(2b) Reserves should not join until the stated session, regardless of the time.
(3) You will not be able to join the server without the skin and ballast pack (see link above).
(4) Drivers may only change car once in the season without penalty.
(5) Drivers are reminded that they must select ISDN as their bandwidth, otherwise the stability of everyones' connections will be reduced.


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Jure on June 19, 2007, 11:01:40 AM +0100
number of race laps?


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer on June 19, 2007, 11:18:35 AM +0100
I'd have thought that this will go to time and not distance given the relatively slow nature of the track.


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Jure on June 19, 2007, 11:29:23 AM +0100
Yeah well, last sprint in Enna (and endurance in Dubai) finished way sooner than 40/80 mins mark, gotta ask, I'm fed up with finishing races loaded with fuel. :D

2400 seconds race minus warm up lap of some 200 seconds = 2200 seconds of racing.

2200 secs/82 second lap for aliens= 26laps, 27 including warm up lap?

Doesn't matter, soft-med combo won't last, at least on my F550, I get 14 tyre wear on FL after 10 laps. Argh. Med-med suck (epic understeeeeeeeeeeer), hence, dare I say it.... med-hard? Huh?  :o

Race pace (aliens excluded) in mid 1.23s?

Man I hate FIA, why couldn't they use F1 tracks for GT racing, I'm completely lost on this unknown tracks.  ;D


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Jeffrey on June 19, 2007, 11:30:48 AM +0100
number of race laps?

Maximum of 30 laps. Average racepace of let's say...1:22, makes for more than 40 minutes, and that's a pretty fast racepace. So indeed it will go down with time.

Edit: Lol, saw you were thinking the same  ;D


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer on June 19, 2007, 11:39:04 AM +0100
It's called preparation. :P


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: baracus250gt on June 19, 2007, 05:43:08 PM +0100
Can I ask a bit of advice?
I installed the IROC GTL mod for GTR2 (Power and Glory) but before it installed it gave a message "Power & Glory is not compatible with NAP mod - do you want to continue installation?".

I have tried the NAP mod a while ago, but I was sure that when you 'swap' back to the normal game it is as if its not there?

I pressed continue anyway! eek

Now when I drive a normal GTR2 car (and I noticed this on the P&G Cortina too) the revs dont go up smoothly. It gets to near the top end then sort of sounds like its stopped accelerating as hard for a few revs, then frees up again to the red line... is this going to affect me in the race?

Do you think I should I do a complete reinstall of GTR2?


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: picnic on June 19, 2007, 05:48:37 PM +0100
I've no idea but I suggest you try connecting to the practice server. If you get mismatches you may at least have time to sort it if you're quick.


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Jure on June 19, 2007, 06:04:07 PM +0100
and don't forget to do a backup of user files and setups ;)


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Gazza49er on June 19, 2007, 06:29:32 PM +0100
Hi guys, any last minute advise for my first race?  Dont really expect to be on the pace you guys are but looking forward to it.

Just hope i can keep out of trouble lol.  Bin practicing quite a bit on this track but cant seem to find a good setup. 


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Kerr on June 19, 2007, 06:41:29 PM +0100
Just find your own pace Gazza and see how you go. You are not the only struggling here. Some of the cambers and corner run out's catch me out a bit. You think you are through the bend and past the apex, accelerate and find the corner tightening and you go wide.

Think many positions will be decided by who makes fewer mistakes.

I have been deprived of racing action, so I'm racing tonight even though I'm off the pace a bit.

Get some practice in after tea


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Gazza49er on June 19, 2007, 06:54:15 PM +0100
Thanks kerr,  i will do. See you at the race.


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Adam Parle on June 19, 2007, 07:40:19 PM +0100
I'm not going to make this evening - along with not getting to grips with the course I'm blocked up with hay-fever and a cold .... and concentration gets ruined easily when snot's runnning down your chin.  :-\

After missing two on the trot, I'm looking forward to Mangy and Imola to finish.


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Mark J on June 19, 2007, 07:41:45 PM +0100
Big Jessy  ;D


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Gazza49er on June 19, 2007, 07:50:39 PM +0100
I see some people are in the server practicing now and i thought i would join to but i keep getting "bad password"  Am i doing something wrong?


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Adam Parle on June 19, 2007, 07:53:53 PM +0100
Can it Mary Jane ;) .....


The password shouldn't be the event password yet ... it'll be the normal practice password.


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Gazza49er on June 19, 2007, 07:57:54 PM +0100
aaaahhhh i see, nobody has told me what the practice password is lol 


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Adam Parle on June 19, 2007, 08:01:39 PM +0100
aaaahhhh i see, nobody has told me what the practice password is lol 

Cunningly it's hidden in the "password" section : HERE (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2929.0)


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Gazza49er on June 19, 2007, 08:04:58 PM +0100
Thank you, i was looking there but obviously not in the right place.


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: picnic on June 19, 2007, 08:07:34 PM +0100
Maximum of 30 laps.

Hmm, this doesn't look good. Just done a couple of laps offline and I'm using 4.9L plua a lap which seems way too high and means I'll run out in 21 laps or so  :-\ This was according to the PD monitor thing. Anyone else getting silly values?


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Simon Gymer on June 19, 2007, 08:09:52 PM +0100
That can't be right Pete, even in the MC12, Oschersleben is not a long circuit, you can't be using that much. Do a manual calculation instead by looking at what's left in your tank after 1 lap.


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: picnic on June 19, 2007, 08:16:11 PM +0100
Not sure it was a lot different 88 to 67 L in 4 or 5 laps. Hopefully it's just a glitch


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: JonM_uk on June 19, 2007, 08:27:00 PM +0100
Bah :(
Gonna miss this. Just got in from shopping and thought 'plug everything in away we go!!!!!' then remembered my pizza's in the oven :'(
Good luck for tonights race everyone :)


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: psuedo on June 19, 2007, 09:19:38 PM +0100
now we know why I'm changing ISP.......lost connection.....three times in qually then everybody just dissapeared on lap 2 of race.....I continued for a couple of corners but then left.....just incase.

Totally gutted....thats the last two races i've missed coz of the s*** ISP. :-X...and to top it all i'm going to be offline totally for the next 7 to 10 days whilst moving house etc. so I'll be missing some then too.

Humphhhhhhh. not a happy fellow.

congrats to the podiums...and well done team Pink Pseudo Racing.....good turn out and I'm hoping you enjoyed and got some good racing. (and maybe some team points  ;D ;) ;))


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Jeffrey on June 19, 2007, 09:50:24 PM +0100
Tough race for me. The Viper at Oschers is like an elephant in a chinashop ;).

The qually was really close, top 10 within 2 s.

Immediatly after the start Leuven drove off into the distance, nothing I could try. I had Zacari behind me for the first 15 minutes or something. Really close as I could see all it's drifts behind me. Great driving  ;D.

After that was a time of nothing to do, untill Brian came closer and closer, and in the end he was right up my bumper. I could use the power of the Viper to prevent his nose on the inside before corners.

Grats to Leuven and Welcome Gazza to UKGTR :)


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Simon Gymer on June 19, 2007, 09:56:48 PM +0100
Wow, that was a good race! After the terror and my own unenjoyment of Enna, it was fantastic getting back to racing normally again. Always enjoyed Oschersleben, it's a great hot lapping track and despite no practice and no setup I was very pleased to get 6th? on the grid. Managed to finish 5th in the end which I think is my best result of the season in GT1 Sprint so I'm really pleased with that. I took my Dubai setup and tweaked it for this track with higher wing, shorter gearing and so forth.

Had TT behind me for the first section of the race whilst I was bedding myself in, the noise of that MC12 was horrible behind me I just couldn't hear myself think. Then thankfully (for me) TT made a mistake and I had a small gap to the next guy behind which I think was FreQ at the time in my evil twin Team Shark Lambo. He harried me like nobody's business but I kept calm and just managed to fend him off before he was overtaken and replaced by Mark in the Viper. Again I managed to hold this car off too by just sticking to my lines and driving normally. I was looking in the mirror far more than looking ahead and I knew this was a bad idea but I also knew it was really difficult to get by without a mistake. Using the slow in fast out technique Mark could never get close enough out of the corners to get a run on me and eventually FreQ repassed him and harried me again. After a while I somehow?!? managed to pull out 2 seconds on FreQ, getting him out of my slipstream was great and I felt much more comfortable to bring it home for 5th behind Brian in the Junior Lambo.

The grid was so close and it was nice feeling competitive again with the head of the pack. I suspect the next track will see me drop back down the order again, but I shall try and make the most of Oschers as one of my favorite tracks. The circuit definately suits the Lambo and MC12 with their great cornering ability I just hope it suits the 360 GTC and TVR too.

Well done Leuven, Jeff and Brian on the podium.


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: picnic on June 19, 2007, 10:05:37 PM +0100
Replay (http://ukgtr.simracing.org.uk/Oschersleben%20-%20GT1%20Sprint%20070619.zip) and provisional Results (https://www.simracing.org.uk/index.php?ind=lm2&event=298) and Standings (https://www.simracing.org.uk/index.php?ind=lm2&group=50)

Looks like Ruskus has sown this one up with 2 rounds to go. Congratulations  :)


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: picnic on June 19, 2007, 10:09:39 PM +0100
I never liked this place in GTR1 and now hate it even more. Give me Enna any day. Stupid thing tho is at Enna I'm 4 or 5 secs off the pace, here I was under 0.7 in qually. But I enjoy Enna more because I am in control (sort of). As usual I suspect I don't have a decent setup, it's quick but it's also random what happens if I'm on the kerbs or hit a bump under power. The car just spits itself one way or the other.

Grrrrrr  >:(


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Jeffrey on June 19, 2007, 10:11:27 PM +0100


Unofficial Lapchart (http://www.lapcharts.teamshark.org.uk/Lapcharts/Oscher GT1 sprint 19-06-2007/index.html)


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Jeffrey on June 19, 2007, 10:12:58 PM +0100

Looks like Ruskus has sown this one up with 2 rounds to go. Congratulations  :)

Thanks. I didn't even realise this.


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Mark J on June 19, 2007, 10:15:39 PM +0100
That was another stonking race, i enjoyed it all the way from start to finish.

Had a naff qually despite getting 9th/10th on the grid but i was a whole second off my PB. :( Literally minutes before the first practise session i did a 1:21.2 and a 1:21.3  :o so thought i was on for a top 5 grid spot this eve  :(  
Oddly i seemed to get less grip as the qually session wore on  ???...was it getting hotter? i forgot to look.

Race was one long hard pushing fight from the green flag to the chequered one. For quite a spell there was a 4 way fight going on from simon in 3rd back to me in 7th with Freq and Mark Mc in between. It was superb watching the fight whilst hanging on for dear life to Marks Viper wing  8)
That Viper was incredibly quick down the straight, you literally just blew past me half way down it  :o
..the Massa seems way down on power still, and is left for dead by the 550's too. Shame we havent got an F1 style speed trap to record top ends down the s/f straight. :)
Eventually the cars in front eeked out a 2.5 sec gap and that stayed like that give or take a second for the remaining half of the race and i brought it home a well earned 6th/7th?? I was hoping Marks viper tyres would go off as i closed near the end but alas no joy.
Cracking race, hats off to the top 6 for the non stop brutal pace.  8)


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Kerr on June 19, 2007, 10:16:21 PM +0100
Sorry i had to run right after race, but i'm at work now!    using phone so sorry about paragraphs etc.  Found qualifying hard. 3 times was i caught out by drivers just cruising along on racing line, you guys know better. Did not post the best of times but still 4th.    i could match ruskus and zacari for pace. Made a couple of stupid mistakes as still not got to grips with this track.   Got passed zacari after he had a spin.   I was a couple of tenths quicker than ruskus and was slowly reeling him in. My tyres never lost as much performance as usual and i caught him quickly at the end. Had a chance to pass when  after gazza ran wide and ruskus backed off. Got inside him a lap later but that viper has serious power.   I just could not pass. Great race all and well done leuven on the win.                                        


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer on June 19, 2007, 10:26:31 PM +0100
That was in equal parts hard work, great fun, frustrating, and enjoyably meaningless. :laugh:

Hard work - made a few mistakes and traded places with Madd-RIPP, Gazza and Picnic in the process. Had another bash at fixing my pedals before the race and that seems to have worked. Also rearranged things to put GTR2_PD on a second monitor rather than my laptop but obviously got something wrong in the dual view setup and I had stuttering all through the event; went back after the race and did it again from scratch and it seems okay again so I don't get it. ??? It was still drivable though, just anoying.

I was too rushed during qualifying so never had a chance to set the car up properly - was mostly okay but the gear ratios were too short so the 550's tendency to waltz away down the straights was exacerbated. Tyres were getting pretty nasty towards the end and the Vette was sliding all over the place and I actually started deliberately powersliding it in places to use the rears which were in better shape than the fronts.

Gutted to lose a place to Madd on the last lap, especially with a stupid error, running wide in the compound left handers.

Unfortunately I won't be able to make the Clubmen Endurance event on Sunday unless I happen to invent a warp drive in the next few days.


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer on June 19, 2007, 10:29:04 PM +0100
Always enjoyed Oschersleben, it's a great hot lapping track

I never liked it that much in GTR1 but with the low speed grip sorted out it's a great place in GTR2 to really hustle a car - it's only really the  evil Triple where a small mistake gets punished really heavily.

Totally the opposite of Enna. :D


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Gazza49er on June 19, 2007, 11:01:38 PM +0100
Thanks guys, that was good fun although im a little dissapointed overall where i finished because when i saw most people were in the 1.22's i thought ok im gunna be in the middle of this lot and felt good but i think wrong choice of tires and first race nerves got the better of me. All week i had been getting steady 1.22's all be it with slightly less fuel so to get 1.24 in the race was not good. I was well over cautious at times when around other cars coz i didnt want to cause any accidents on my debut and at one point let Dave i think go round the outside of me in turn 2 although i had inside line lol.

Im glad to hear i didnt cost Ruskus a place when he and Kerr lapped me, i knew they were coming up behind me and kept checking mirrors but ran wide in turn 1 and stayed on grass to let them pass.

See you at the next one.


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Zacari on June 19, 2007, 11:24:30 PM +0100
I do like that track, great fun! ;D  Qualifying was the closest I've seen in ages, I was more than happy with being 3rd on the grid.

Start was fine, I dropped off Jeff briefly but a couple of laps later I was right up with him again.  Tried hard to find a way passed but only managed once to get along-side, the rest of the time I was using the best of my tyres up trying to find a gap!  Some nice slidey moments. A lap later I tried to get inside again, but Jeff kept it tighter and I either had to run wide (ie collide) or spin, so I had to spin.

After that I totally lost concentration, dropped an extra gear into the triple left-hander and spun out- apologies if I stuck my nose over the kerb when rejoining a little early.  Numerous other offs resulted in 9th, which was pretty awful, though I did manage the fastest lap when chasing Jeff :D


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Kerr on June 20, 2007, 12:29:58 AM +0100
Remember when you play offline gazza the weight ballast might not be taken into account. Note the 550 has an extra 25kg when racing here.     At least your first race went without any incident. I'm sure you will find your feet and there is loads of good guys willing to help out in need be.      I was baffled when i first joined how fast and consistent most drivers are.   Everything on here is fair and well organised. It's on a completely different level than open server races where they are full of idiots. On here everything is good clean and taken seriously. The only problem i have is some guys are too fast! 
will you be back for the clubmen endurance race using the 550?
 


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Truetom on June 20, 2007, 07:46:38 AM +0100
Had TT behind me for the first section of the race whilst I was bedding myself in, the noise of that MC12 was horrible behind me I just couldn't hear myself think. Then thankfully (for me) TT made a mistake...

I felt I could go quicker there but could not prepare a line that would work towards overtaking. One of this cases lead to unhealty line through the Esses and off I went...  :(

The circuit definately suits the Lambo and MC12 with their great cornering ability...

As much as this is true it is also true that MC12 is (again) faster where you can't overtake and (still) doesn't have the power to overtake on the straight. Couldn't even come into slipstream to stick a nose into the inside corner to force my way through have a "legal half" of the car beside the one I wanted to overtake.

It was identical to Dubai where I was right on the rear of Mos Viper but when the road straightened out he simply drove away.  >:(  That leads to a conclusion that MC12 is still too heavy to compete with other GT1 cars. MJ also stated this in his post and I think Picnic would agree.  :(

Otherwise I can't say anything bad about event. I thorougly enjoyed the quali session. I must say I could improve another 0,3 or 0,4 seconds towards the end if I had a clean lap. I know everybody tried to set their best time but as DG said in one of his posts - every driver knows when he's on a fast lap and when you make a mistake please let the faster car behind you pass, do not race him. It ruins both drivers laps. Let him pass and prepare for the next fast lap. No hard feelings anyone, just a note.  :)

As I said, MC12 can be quite fast around this circuit, if there's noone in front.  ::)  I felt I could go faster through the corners but could never prepare an overtaking opportunity when driving either behind Shark (Lambo), Jure (F550) or Bernie (F550). Fair racing all and great duels but despite being dangerously too close through the corners MC12 couldn't close the gap on the straight. Trying to find alternative lines only brought me two mistakes in the Esses and when driving behind Bernie I prefered to quit rather than force a way through which could result in a touch and ending both of our race. When I was driving behind Jure it was clearly visible that even when I was 1 sec per lap faster when closing the gap once we were close any advantage MC12 has in cornering ability meant zip. Even when Jure made small mistakes when driving on the limit, MC12 was too slow to exploit them in a safe way. After he made a mistake before the Esses he let me pass like a true gentleman  8)  and then I was able to make a gap of a few seconds in a lap or two. Same story with Bernie, F550 is too fast after the corner ends.

MC12 feels great to drive otherwise, I'm not sorry to have picked it for this season, it's just that the results on the board show it's underpowered to be really on par with F550, Saleen, Lambo or even Viper. I'd like this to be noted for the next season.  :)   That said - I must be fair and say that the car field is much more evened with the ballast pack so this was the step in the right direction.  :thumbup1:

Sorry for the long post - I needed to take this off my chest but my wife is not interested in this kind of rambling.  ;D

TT
     


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: picnic on June 20, 2007, 07:58:24 AM +0100
It was identical to Dubai where I was right on the rear of Mos Viper but when the road straightened out he simply drove away.  >:(  That leads to a conclusion that MC12 is still too heavy to compete with other GT1 cars. MJ also stated this in his post and I think Picnic would agree.  :(

I do agree, I had a good speed advantage coming on the the start/finish straight on Mad when his line was compromised by another car but the Lambo just left me. My team mates think I'm mad to drive the MC12 because of it's propencity to swap ends but this is the first time / track I've really had these issues and I do love the way it gets into the corners  :) Never being one who will win races, let alone championships, I'm happy to poodle around in one of the less popular cars and was pleasantly surprised that the MC12 is as popular as it is ;)


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Simon Gymer on June 20, 2007, 09:17:47 AM +0100
Each car has different characteristics. The Viper and 550 were faster down the straights than the Lambo as well as the MC12 but the Lambo is better through the corner and out of it and the MC12 is better into the corner and through it. You need to work out someway of making it your advantage. The Viper was quicker down the straights but it didn't blow people away, it's all very close and we don't know what each other's wing settings were either. I was running 2-10 for example but I've no idea what the cars around me were running.

I know the Lambo has great traction out of the corners so with people running behind me I tended to make sure that I got a better exit than them by slowing the first part of the corner down if necessary. They can't overtake mid-corner and nearly every corner get too close and can't react to me getting the power down quicker than them, which doesn't give them enough time to get me under braking (the easiest way to overtake) on a circuit like Oschers. Different circuits suit different tactics to keeping someone behind, some circuits are much harder to prevent overtakes, but Oschers is quite easy to not be overtaken if you just drive your lines and don't make mistakes. Of course the best tactic is to simply be able to lap faster but with the top 10 yesterday all qualifying within a second there was virtually nothing between a lot of drivers.

I do unmistakably see too many cars running very close to the ground when at places like Enna and Oschersleben. Too many sparks from the ground. I believe you have to put the ride height up when using so much of these big curbs otherwise the bottom of your car will hit the teethy curbs and cause unexpected reactions. It's much more of an advantage to be able to hit a curb and not have the bottom of your car spit you off than it is run a tiny bit lower for very very very marginally better cornering. If the bottom of your car is hitting the floor then you can expect the unexpected.

Congrats Jeff, can't believe how many points you've racked up despite being in the Viper half of the season! Well done. Perhaps we need to stick you in a 911 GT2 to keep up!


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Jure on June 20, 2007, 09:48:46 AM +0100
Congrats to Jeffrey for wrapping it up with 2 races to go.  8) 

Right. New venue for me, had a first bit of practice on Monday (and watched AI for a lap or two on Saturday just to know what's comming  ;D ). When I first saw the track I went: "oooops, understeer-o-rama for F550, Lambos and MC12s will kick ass". Man I hate it when I'm right.  ;D

Anyway, after running reasonable pace (i.e. not going off every second turn, 1 hour prior to race start I was still in "hmmm, is the next one in 3rd or 4th?") in free practice I had a nightmare of a quali session. First of all apologies to all that I've blocked/got in a away/ruined concentration during quali. Bloody track, if one wants to let by guys on a flying lap it's simply mission impossible. The more I tried, the worse it get, short lap didn't help either, quali was packed as never before and that resulted in Q time being 1 second off my best times in race trim. No comment. :o ::) BTW, close times in Q are more a result of a short lap than anything else IMHO.

I knew soft-med combo wouldn't last, hated med-med so I opted for med-hard. Unfortunately I ran out of time to tweak it to perfection, i.e. my tyres just wouldn't heat up during the race except for few laps I drove on my own. The moment I got into duels race pace dropped and voila, back to 195kPa and cold tyres. Catch 22.

Race start was fairly good, I could push a bit more but decided it's "just" a GT1 sprint which I consider as a training session for endurance anyway, hence one must finish, period. Was happy to let Baracus by after he had a spin and caught me as a banshee out of hell. Tried to keep him behind for... 5-6 corners, then I went "naaaah, we'll both crash, it's no use, time to flash him by, he's a teammate.". Great racing vs glued-to-the-ground-MC12s followed.  :fencing: :thumbup2: :punk: Bloody things were sooooo fast in fast triple left corner it was incredible. That's why I made a mistake and let Truetom by, I was watching him in the mirror, thinking "maaaan, I wish F550 could be so precise through here" and whammo, off I went.  :stupid: Next time I will use classic Italian credo: "dee trafik beehind meee does naaat matter" since it was, as TT clearly stated, impossible for them to keep up on the straight plus if one used slow in-fast out approach, you could block ANY car - forever. I do agree with MC12 drivers opinion as per MC12 goes, it's still waaay too slow down the straight, am watching it throughout the season although new ballast pack made them a bit more competitive.  8)

And oh yeah, repeat after me: "if Jure thinks rest of us will all suffer on soft fronts in the last stages of the race we shall oblige and stick to his plan."  ;D

Congrats to Gazza for finishing the race and having a reasonable pace. You'll do just fine. Welcome to the series. ;)

Looking forward to endurance, it'll be a hard race for all of us, track isn't that much forgiving and, short as it is, does not give you any rest (unless you all agree to GET OF MY A** down the S/F straight ;D). I should also tweak the setup a bit more, wing 2-11 is simply too understeery.


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer on June 20, 2007, 09:56:42 AM +0100
That leads to a conclusion that MC12 is still too heavy to compete with other GT1 cars. MJ also stated this in his post and I think Picnic would agree.  :(

I don't think it's a weight issue - if it were I'd expect the car to be pants in the twisties too and it manifestly isn't. More likely the MC12 needs to run a little more downforce and is less aerodynamic as a result - not to mention comparisons with the Viper aren't really representative because that's the torquiest car in GTR2 with a whopping 850Nm against the MC12's very modest 655Nm - the C5-R and 550 being in-between with 775 and 774 respectively - and a lack of torque hurts a car with less torque a lot more than one with lots.


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Truetom on June 20, 2007, 09:58:48 AM +0100
I know the Lambo has great traction out of the corners so with people running behind me I tended to make sure that I got a better exit than them by slowing the first part of the corner down if necessary. They can't overtake mid-corner and nearly every corner get too close and can't react to me getting the power down quicker than them, which doesn't give them enough time to get me under braking (the easiest way to overtake) on a circuit like Oschers.

I agree and that's why I've been searching alternate lines. As I had a quicker entry I was able to go wide into the corner right on the bumper of the car in front. The line also enablem me to be put onto the straight line at the same moment as the car in front, thus having a FULL acceleration at the same time as the car in front. But then MC12 was left behind and zero gap turned into 1 or even 1,5 car length at the end of the straight. This was most visible against F550 (Jure&Bernie) and I was not enough time behind you, Shark to exploit all the alternatives.  :)  Also, the exit tecnique you described prevented me from applying full throttle at the same tima as you. But the result was the same - the gap increased on the straight and decreased again through corners.  :-\

I was running wing 11 but was experimenting a lot with lower wings. Every other setting was making me slower exactly 'cause the exit speed was lower with the lower wing (the car was less stable and the full acceleration could be done at a later point). The maximum speed on the straight was not higher by using wing 10 or 9 exactly 'cause the acceleration was applied gradualy.

Oschers is quite easy to not be overtaken if you just drive your lines and don't make mistakes.

Yes, it kind of reminds me on Monaco with no walls.  ;D  That makes my point about qualifying all the more important.  :)
I hated the circuit in GTR1 but I feel it's much easier to drive in GTR2. Endurance will be fun.  8)

TT


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Truetom on June 20, 2007, 10:03:04 AM +0100
That leads to a conclusion that MC12 is still too heavy to compete with other GT1 cars. MJ also stated this in his post and I think Picnic would agree.  :(

I don't think it's a weight issue - if it were I'd expect the car to be pants in the twisties too and it manifestly isn't. More likely the MC12 needs to run a little more downforce and is less aerodynamic as a result - not to mention comparisons with the Viper aren't really representative because that's the torquiest car in GTR2 with a whopping 850Nm against the MC12's very modest 655Nm - the C5-R and 550 being in-between with 775 and 774 respectively - and a lack of torque hurts a car with less torque a lot more than one with lots.

Dave, you have to take my statements with some reserve.  :D  By using the term "too heavy" I simply meant "not being able to compete on the straight", thus losing 'cause you can't exploit what you gain through the corners (where you can't overtake) once you get on the straights (where you can overtake - if you can  ::) ).
I'm still learning English.  :)

TT


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Simon Gymer on June 20, 2007, 10:31:07 AM +0100
Dave, you have to take my statements with some reserve.
I'm still learning English.  :)

TT

Apparently you need to learn not to double post too.  ;) :P :angel: :angel:


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Simon Gymer on June 20, 2007, 10:35:43 AM +0100
I agree and that's why I've been searching alternate lines.

To me that is the best part of racing battles too. A lot of the time it can be more fun behind than infront (no rude comments please!  :nono:) for the trial of working out how to pass someone. Easy overtakes are far less enjoyable than really having to work at it and come up with something clever to get the move done.  ;D


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Truetom on June 20, 2007, 10:37:20 AM +0100
Oops! Double post!  :o  Sorted.  :)  Was modifying to make it sensible and readable and it happened.  ;D

TT


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Mark J on June 20, 2007, 10:46:56 AM +0100
I think what he's trying to say is 'The Mc12 is under-powered'  ::) ;) ;D

Last night certainly highlighted it for me on the two main straights, where i could be right behind the 3 car gaggle in the twisties but by the end of the straight i would be about 1-1.5 secs behind again, only to close up through the esses etc.
But i guess thats the beauty of everyone taking different models, they all have their strengths and weaknesses at different tracks. Except the 550 which still blows most away. ::)
How about upping the spec of certain engines to bring them up to date a little? ie the Massa in the game is the first generation model, that got significantly developed each season it was used. There is even a 2007 spec Maserati mod available i believe? Not that i would want to see everyone picking that car if it became quicker.
And yes i also know, that your reluctant to introduce modded cars, but we should also move forward and develop our sim racing if it makes it more interesting/competitive. :angel:


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Truetom on June 20, 2007, 11:15:50 AM +0100
MJ, you could be my personal interpreter.  ;D

I agree with all you saying different cars have different abilities and that's how the cookie crumbles what makes the racing fun.  :)  A look at the Sprint standings tells you yet another truth and MJs post has touched the gist of it.  :)   (Is that the right word, gist, is it?)  ::)

TT


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Mark J on June 20, 2007, 11:24:02 AM +0100
It is the right word TT  :)

Just want to clarify my earlier post, i'm not looking for any advantage for the Massa because thats what i and TT (and Picnic) drive, i'd be happy to see any/all of the cars updated to newer season specs if it was feasible/easy to implement. For instance the Lambo is a really strong car this season in FIA GT, and i would still love to see the Astons thrown into the mix  8)
Other cars like the Marcos LM300?, the F430 and Ultimates are also allegedly near completion on the mod circuit.


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Kerr on June 20, 2007, 12:50:18 PM +0100
Each car has different characteristics. The Viper and 550 were faster down the straights than the Lambo as well as the MC12 but the Lambo is better through the corner and out of it and the MC12 is better into the corner and through it. You need to work out someway of making it your advantage. The Viper was quicker down the straights but it didn't blow people away, it's all very close and we don't know what each other's wing settings were either. I was running 2-10 for example but I've no idea what the cars around me were running.


You maybe wanted to try and follow Ruskus then! He was struggling with tyres at the end and I was right behind him.

Making sure I was getting good exit speed, sometimes higher than him, as soon as that Viper opened up away it went. Even using his slipstream and after a better run out of the last corner I must have lost 0.4 tenths easily making it impossible to overtake under braking.

The Lambo was much quicker in the corners though, but often the only chance of a pass is for another driver to make a mistake.

I was actually happy especially with my lack of practice on this track with my performance. Car felt very nice and stable apart form a couple of times I hit the kerb at the chicane.

Hopefully after A couple of more laps and a tweak of gear ratio's, exit was a bit low on revs at a couple of corners, hopefully I can find a few more tenths.

Looking forward to Sunday.

Well done Ruskus on championship win


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer on June 20, 2007, 01:09:19 PM +0100
The problem with messing with anything beyond weight - which is used as an equaliser in the real world - is that if you take it to it's logical conlusion, you end up with every car using the 550's phyics. Hardly a desirable situation.

This isn't the right thread to be having this discussion in though and nearer to season 6 we will need (and have) a discussion about car classes and performance balancing. I was hoping that the DBR9 would be officially available by then but it still seems to be in stasis.


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Simon Gymer on June 20, 2007, 02:04:09 PM +0100
A look at the Sprint standings tells you yet another truth and MJs post has touched the gist of it.  :)

It does? All it shows me is that what are probably the fastest 3 guys (that turn up for most rounds) are at the top. We know Jeff wins in everything and anything, Viper, Vette whatever so all it shows it the speed of the guys at the front is superior to the most. In fact if anything it shows a nice balance of cars, Jeff has driven the Saleen and Viper, Leuven the F550 and FreQ the Lambo. 3 different cars at the front.

Anyway, as Gizmo says I guess this is another discussion, so I best  :-X it now.  :angel: :laugh:

Roll on the GT2 Sprint race as the TVR should be a hoot round Oschers, not sure about fast, but I will definitely enjoy driving it around this type of circuit.


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Truetom on June 20, 2007, 02:39:08 PM +0100
A look at the Sprint standings tells you yet another truth and MJs post has touched the gist of it.  :)

It does? All it shows me is that what are probably the fastest 3 guys (that turn up for most rounds) are at the top. We know Jeff wins in everything and anything, Viper, Vette whatever so all it shows it the speed of the guys at the front is superior to the most. In fact if anything it shows a nice balance of cars, Jeff has driven the Saleen and Viper, Leuven the F550 and FreQ the Lambo. 3 different cars at the front.

Anyway, as Gizmo says I guess this is another discussion, so I best  :-X it now.  :angel: :laugh:

Roll on the GT2 Sprint race as the TVR should be a hoot round Oschers, not sure about fast, but I will definitely enjoy driving it around this type of circuit.

I meant manufacturer standing, Shark.  ::)   

TT


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Kerr on June 20, 2007, 03:24:25 PM +0100
At the end of the day I suppose it's unfair to say a driver has an advantage because the car he drives.

Everybody has the same choice of cars and if you feel that somebody has an advantage because they drive a faster car, then choose the same car and have the same advantage.

I have been considering a change for a while as trying to get better perfomances. I find that I can go quicker at times in some cars but don't feel as comfortable as I do in the Lambo. I find I have most fun in the Lambo and make less mistakes too.

I found a few races I was getting eaten alive by the 550's straightline speed but last night the track was a Lambo track.

I'm still new to many tracks and still learning a lot, but it's hard to say over a whole season if one car has a big margin.

If the Lambo had has just a wee bit more power though........

I would like to see more car manufacturers. They must offer something to the game though


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Truetom on June 20, 2007, 04:23:38 PM +0100
At the end of the day I suppose it's unfair to say a driver has an advantage because the car he drives.

I wouldn't want the discussion to go down that alley, as I wasn't talking about that AT ALL!  >:(
Previous post modified to exclude all non-clear meanings.  :offtopic:

TT


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Gazza49er on June 20, 2007, 07:22:02 PM +0100
Thanks Kerr and Jure for your kind words, and yes Kerr i will be back for the clubmen endurance, just need to get some front end grip sorted lol. 

When i was practicing offline i did use the skin pack from here with the weight differences.

Anyway i was very impressed with how everything worked and how nice people were so i hope to be around for some time  :)


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Simon Gymer on June 20, 2007, 07:56:58 PM +0100
BTW, what tyres was everyone else on? I took medium-mediums as usual for GT1 racing, but my fronts weren't at optimum temperatures and I had little wear after 40 mins (not even half way). I thought Oschers with all it's corners would be hard on tyres, but that was quite a surprise, perhaps I wasn't driving as on the edge as I could have as I wanted to not make any mistakes.


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Jure on June 20, 2007, 08:20:13 PM +0100
medium-hard using this setup click click http://freeweb.siol.net/rbedenk1/F550MHRC.rar

could do with 2kPa higher pressure imho. try it.

edit: TT, what happened to you on last lap?


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Truetom on June 20, 2007, 08:31:54 PM +0100
I quit, Jure, disgusted by my driving abilities and mistakes on this track.  ;D
I take this as on-line practice session for Endurance anyway.  :)
I was running meds, Shark and I also found the tyres good at the end. I wonder how the softs would go here...  :-\

TT


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer on June 21, 2007, 07:54:51 AM +0100
I was on mediums all round - hard rears would definitely have been the wrong choice here, in fact, unusually for the 'Vette I was getting more wear on the fronts than the rears.


Title: Re: UKGTR Season 5 GT1 Sprint - Oschersleben (GP) - Jun 19
Post by: Kerr on June 21, 2007, 03:48:19 PM +0100
I ran meds all round and it seemed to hold up well. As you may have noticed I always suffer with high tyre wear but did a run with soft fronts in a test beforehand.

They lasted about 30mins then had my usual huge performance drop off. They were quicker to start with but not sure over the 40mins they would be any better. Tactics, tactics