SimRacing.org.uk

All members welcome.

These races are intended primarily to test standing starts as a proposed new starting format for UKGTL Season 3. There will be 2 races with practice for the 2nd race cut off after 5 minutes to give enough time for people to rejoin for the second race, but qualifying will be skipped on the server for the second race and grid order will be fairly random therefore.

Anderstorp has been chosen because it has a tricky standing start situation with a first corner very close to the start line. With the pretty random grid in race 2 this is a stern test of our ability to do standing starts.

Practice: 20:15 (15 mins)
Qualifying: 20:30 (20 mins)
Race 1: 20:50 (12 laps = ~20 mins)
Practice: 21:15 (5 mins)
Race 2: 21:20 (12 laps = ~20 mins)

Track: Anderstorp GP
Cars allowed: Any GTC-76 class car.
Time of Day Setting: 14:00
Start: STANDING

Server: UKGTL S3 TEST
Password: available from the event page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/index.php?ind=lm2&event=387) (see the Show Password link under the announcement text)

Notes:
(1) It's best if all drivers can make sure they are connected before the Qualifying session as drivers on track during qualifying will not see cars that join after they are on track until they go back to the garage.
(2) Please make sure you are fully aware of the SimRacing.org.uk Rules (https://www.simracing.org.uk/index.php?pid=7).
(3) The race will be run using the UKGTL Skin Pack 1.3 which will need to be installed prior to racing; please get it from the downloads page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/index.php?pid=27).

Woohoo - standing start - Mary Jane will be pleased!

Having had his tyres greased with Team Shark KY again no doubt ::)  .   :P

I don't even know what KY is  ;D

Ask your boss:

KY Jelly (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ky_jelly) is used in movie special effects to give the appearance of slime.  :P ;)

Hi Guys

Hospital messing me about this week but should be there. Did this track last night in Escorts on Nogrip and the start was fine. The standard of driving at the back of the pack seems to be a little bit higher here that at Nogrip so think everything should be okay. So hopefully see you all Thursday.

Peter

Sorry, can't make this one.  :'(

Phil Gilliland

Any particular car classes for this....or just run what u brung?

Any 76. I may take the 911 RSR for a change as I don't think I've driven it competitively in GTL.

I would love to make it but I'm working 12-8s this week :(

shame its Anders-flippin-storp  :(  but i'll be there and looking forward to standing starts  8)..the right way to start a race  :angel:

I like Anderstorp. It's drift-tastic! ;D

Enjoy Anders myself and will give the bimmer a go if theres room. I must warn you all that I am absolutely shocking at standing starts so, if it goes off without incident around me, it will be safe anytime.

in this season the team Sonic Racing Team will participate.

oh good, two races so we can try a different car out in each  8)

Think I'll try the hardest cars to get off the line...Pantera and Corvette. Suck on my smoke boys!

You will not be alone in the Vette  ;D

Yep - I'm planning on taking the Pant-Tearer for a spin .....no point making life easy for myself eh!

can I take a mini :o

only joking....looks like the capri and escort for me.

Yo guys!

New here :P My first race. Might come with the 906 and Panty

Looking good.

Pantera too, then I may try the 914, should be v.quick off the line so will be a good test of how clean the standing start can be when you make up places (and then lose them on the long straight!).

There's no Porsche 906 avaliable on the server...

I might come along for a race tonight!

No idea about any of the cars, so I guess I better go practice and learn!

What is the likely pace out of interest?

yes.....please tell ;D

I'm doing around 1:44 in the capri.......only just started though so hope that will come down

1:43's in the escort or 911 so far. Not tried any others yet apart from a few spins in the pantera  ::)

That Pantera is murder to drive.
The Capri seems about the easiest to drive and the 911 quickest. Last corner is a nightmare for me in 911, just keep losing the rear.

More practice after tea

There is now!  :P

Previous results:

https://www.simracing.org.uk/index.php?ind=lm2&event=168

It's alright once you learn how to tame the beast.

I've been driving the Panty ALOT but not recently.

After setting the wheel lock to 400° I got a 1:40.7 I think. Not bad concerning I didn't drive GTL for 3 months :P

In race 2 I'll drive the 906, love that car(I'm also holding the record on Zolder at Race2play)

PS: Can I use that green skin? I love it :)

I'll be there in the monster Pantera with any luck ;D

All these people coming back to the warm buseum of GTL  8)

Oddly enough, that was a good fun race :).

Thanks to monkey for much fun. You seemd glue to me and apologies again for tap, it wasnt easy trying out the prototype 811 ;D for first time.

I'm happy to see standards have reached that of the GTR races, top marks for waiting Mgoran :), and hope to join you gang for some races this season.

I need more seat time in the 76ers before I race with them again.

Apologies to the 906 I tapped in race 1 - I got caught out with how quick that damn Porsche slows down!

That was great fun, it was good to be in the Pantera again. ;D

Race 2's start should be ignored IMO from a testing point-of-view, because the grid was random and that made for all sorts of speed differential issues :( but I'm not sure if the standing start is a good idea.  I noticed cars around me warping a little as everyone moved, and that made run to T1 quite hard to work out.

Replay (https://replay.simracing.org.uk/ukgtl/UKGTL%20Pre-S3%20-%20GTC-76%20Anderstorp%20070726.zip) and results for race 1 (https://www.simracing.org.uk/index.php?ind=lm2&event=389) and race 2 (https://www.simracing.org.uk/index.php?ind=lm2&event=387) available.

Had some fun again tonight guys thanks.

I really don't have the faintest clue about this game(not much more of one at GTR2 either) but still seemed to come ok.

In the first race got up to 4th and was catching the cars ahead, suddenly my tyres went off and the car was completely undriveable. Every corner the back end was swinging around wildly.

In the second race I tried lowering the tyre pressures and it helped. I never braked as hard, or pushed as hard around long bends but was posting faster lap times and never suffered with too much tyre problems.

Finished 3rd after starting 2nd. Ruskus eased away from me and Simons Pantera frightened me how fast that thing caught me on main straight. Just had to let him go.

Good fun and maybe I will join in sometime soon.

Why did very few people go with the 911, am I missing something?

I really don't know anything about GTL

hmm, mixed feelings on that tonight. Had some fun and great to see more new faces and the return of some old.

Took the vette for first time ever in race 1 and although i was reasonably happy with qually, i found it a horrible pig of a car in the race. Got off to clean start chasing Ruskus (as usual!) in his yank job, but ran wide with the ludicrous brakes at that nasty turn before the last carousel. Then lap later got it out a shape at T1 and the whole grid steamed past. Settled into a better rhythm and fought my way back upto 11th?

Race 2 took the 906.
Liked it instantly, like beauty and the beast compared to vette. Could really drive it and race the thing. Unfortunately got taken out on lap 1 by an enthusiastic pantera ::) and race rather ruined from that as fell down to back of grid, losing loads of time, but enjoyed chasing down and passing SBG  ;D.  Finished 9th or 10th.

Seemed like the standing starts worked well?...they seemed to for the top 10 of grid anyway, dont know what happened further back?  Always tricky on a track like this with the wayward GT76 cars and their dodgy brakes and handling.

Firstly, must say sorry to MichaelB for knocking you off on Race 2 - I had a good run on you but by the time I realised I wasnt gonna make it through cleanly I was going too fast to stop it! I feel terrible but thought it would be more dangerous to pull over and wait :(

I hope everyone liked the standing starts here... I thought it was cool. I got a bad start (never been able to say the here before ;P) on both races. In the Panty I got too much wheelspin but somehow managed to hold onto first for the first few corners still - then the 2 behind had a coming together and it was a lonely race from there on! Had a couple of solo spins of my own (well, 1 spin and 1 forgetting to brake!) but tried to nurse the tyres and mainly the engine coz they have a habit of letting go on me recently in the Tomato and I had forgotten to reduce the rev llimit!

Second race even worse start from 4th on the grid. The set I use for my 906 uses a very high 1st gear with short gears thereafter (to keep the turbo pressure up) so I lost a lot of ground but thankfully Anders has that 1st bend just close enough for it to not be a problem. Even Doni would have been too far to T1 to keep position I reckon! Anyway, I kind of went backwards in this race, at least that's how it felt, but I think I finished 4th too. No way I could gain on the top 3 although I was catching Kerr slowly but I think he found another gear after about 7 laps as I was still doing within 0.1 of my best and he started pulling away again!

Nice bit of action - I reckon we should do random grids more often!!

Please check the replay :P jumping to conclusions is not your friend!

That is not what happened, so please check the replay.

EDIT: Guess Zacari was quicker  ;D

That was fun, the Escort is a huge fun to drive.
I want a BDA engine pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease  ;D what a sound!
Some few interest and cool fights both races.
Very gentleman driving all, thanks.  :)
Dave, it was cool, spend the 2 races at your rear trying to spank catch you.  :lol:
Cheers Dave   ;)  was really fun and good driving  :yes:


Congratulations for Baracus first race win and Simon for second race  :alien:


Cheers

I was at the back for the first race after a disco towards the end of qual. Was just as well in the end, I didn't get the 3-2-1 countdown properly. I set off after everyone else, and finally got the count in the middle of T1. Hope this was just a one off, would have caused chaos if I'd been in the middle of the pack.

First race was a lot of fun, battling my way through the grid to 8th. Made a great start in the second one to go from 9th to 4th after a few corners, but was knocked off the track a couple times and quit.

oh sh*t....really sorry Zac i did indeed get it totally wrong.  :-[  I hold my hands up, i could have sworn i was still up on the outside when i got a thump that put me out of shape and span me round. ???  But that replay clearly shows my own back end stepping out of line and crossing your path. Crap, i feel a right jerk  :hang:

Oh dear, i'll get my coat :boat:
Apologies.

It's amazing how easy it is to call wrong at times. Things happen so fast.

Indeed it is :D and thanks for the apology MJ.  Thankfully it was only a fun race! :angel:

The hit was my fault, you went into the inner circle of the corner, and i thought there is enough space... but it wasn't :o. So we got contact.  Sorry for that.

In the first race I was taken out too, don't know who it was, but all in all it was a very good racing though the cars are so different.  The 906 is very good to drive, but i made the suspension too hard and it goes slow in the last quarter of the race.

See ya all on Monday at imola

Superb, havent raced GTL for ages and forgot how much fun these old cars are!! Had an excellent battle with Ginsters in race 1, three cars a breast nearly going into turn 3 on lap nine, one of us had to go, shame it was me after being cheeky and squeezing between you both!!

A good lesson in why we don't discuss incidents on the forums or in chat after the race. ::)

First race was good although the car never really felt right and was prone to snapping out without warning. Started from the second to last row; would've made up at least two places but wussed out when the Corvette in front barely moved and I decided to back off rather than aim for the gap and hope. Went off in a snappy moment after getting a jiggle on coming out of T3 and spun almost to the back, then clawed my way back up to finish 4th after an excellent tussle with various people including most satisfyingly pribeiro. ;D

TinMan - you were quicker than me in raw pace but from what I could see you were concentrating too hard on trying to make up time on the brakes instead of prioritising exit speed. I don't think I'd have found a way past if you'd broken a little bit earlier and then got back on the power earlier.

Second race was equally interesting - started on the back row next to Zacari, having added a centimetre of ride height to try and cure the snappishness. This time I wasn't mucking around and we both just about managed to squeeze past the row in front before turn 1 - good show from both those cars to see us coming and give us a little room. Almost too exciting! :D Between people going off and me somehow returning to the form I had in the GPL days I got more out of my tyres on that first lap than I thought possible and ended the lap 9th!

Made up a few more places and was running as high as 6th, but by the time Joco's 906 had caught me my front left was starting to go and it was only a matter of time before I made a mistake and let him through. Still, pretty chuffed with 7th in my least favorite class, and a better fastet lap in race 2 than my Q time in race 1. ;D

If only we could do a formation lap so we weren't starting with stone cold tyres, brakes and brains...

I've now reviewed the standing starts on the replay and I remain unconvinced about using them. The second one actually looks better than the first (which is odd considering the performance spread generated by a random grid and randomly performing cars). Overall I'm pleased with how the standing starts went and in more formal situations there wouldn't be such a performance difference in adjacent grid slots.

The problem is however that there are cars going 3 abreast for the first few corners, especially T1 all trying to be careful (a credit to the standard of driving), but ultimately are all playing a very risky game. The standing starts have put people in positions of high risk that are much less likely to occur on a rolling start. Yes they are great fun and make for a thrilling start, but do the gains outweigh the risks, I am not sure?

First off apologies to all for my post race rant. I was totally wrong and am now choking on a huge slice of humble pie for making an ass of myself by wrongly accusing another racer for an incident he had nothing to do with.  :-[

With regards to standing starts, the combination of GT76 and a tight first corner like T1 at Anders is always more than likely going to cause some contact in one way or another, as it probably would in the real racing world.
I would be happy if we used standing starts for the TC65 and GTC65 and maybe used rolling for the GT76 cars, as they perhaps need a formation lap to warm the big slicks up and brakes too. Doesnt GTL support a warm up lap then standing start?

Unfortunately this is not natively supported no.  :-\

Does somebody want to have a play with the settings in their .PLR file and see if it's possible to turn reconaissance laps on in GTL when using the dedicated server? I think it works in GTR2 but it increases the time before the race starts by a big chunk so it's probably not practical anyway, even assuming it works.

Agreed standing starts can be risky, but look at how well we all managed.  I made good starts in both, 8th to 4th and 6th to 4th after T1, and neither time did I get spun round by a car behind as I do all too often on public servers.  8)  Inconsistent driving after that but that's my problem  :-[

Perhaps a sterner test would be somewhere like Nurburgring, where you have a long run into a big braking area and very tight turn - if we can get through T1-T3 there than any track should be a goer.

On a different tack - Force Feedback.  I've been using an 8-yr old MS Sidewinder non-FF, and I'm wondering if I should get a wheel with FF - I've noticed that when I'm a little low on concentration the 76 cars particularly are a nightmare to drive, with their more sudden breakaway than the 65 cars.  I wouldn't expect to be quicker, with full concentration it's fine driving without FF, but the extra clues about grip with feedback might help as I wear down!

Can't justify buying a G25, anyone got any sub-£100 recommends?  I've read some stuff about the pedal pots on some Logitech wheels being a bit flaky.  Cheers guys  ;)

Driving Force Pro. No question. The pedals are a bit naff - and I've taken to covering mine with a tea towel when not in use to stop dust and fluff getting in them.

I wonder whether standing starts would be any more hectic in a championship situation? Probably not in my case (and couldn't have been a lot more hectic anyway!) but then I'm never a championship contender in GTL anyway...

Logitech DFP, you can get for about £60. It's a great wheel, especially at the price and I have not had anything go wrong with it at all, not even the pedals (and they get some serious punishment), all running on the G25 drivers on XP. Not sure how long I've had it, must be well over a year now.

Do the G25 drivers offer any improvements over the Team Wingman drivers?

There are a couple more mapping options in the Profiler which I use but nothing major.

I Agree to 100%. The problem are the emotions after ther race, i can remeber at a wet F1 race in Spa, were Coulthard crashed in the Back of Schumi. Back in the Box, the first thing what schumi did was angrily marching towards the McLaren Box and wanted  :hammer: Couthard.

Racing is done with full motivation and power, you alway give anything, and then it gets stopped by a opponent and you see that all efforts for this race were useless. I we are Humans and no machines, and that's what makes fun when racing.

 

As I remember things it was the other way round, wasn't it?

Indeed. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UctGQwsvwg)

Also this old footage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SXbGDcMeo8) of a certain Mr Piquet not too happy with Mr Salazar.

Aha, I was going to ask how it worked, since the DFP is a PS2 wheel.  Well, DarkPlanets has it for £62, maybe I shall go for it!  But then I'll have no excuses for spinning out...... :(

Thanks for the suggestions, Dave and Simon.  :)

another fan of the DFP here too. Yeah you can get it for about £60 from most places these days. Got mine for same at E-buyer a while back.

As for DC and schuey, yep it was Schuey rear-ending DC and then accused him of brake testing in a dangerous place and apparently wanted to deck him in the pit-lane.
As for me, yep i'm still embarassed how my perception of what happened in the race was so different to what i witnessed on the replay. I could have swore blind i had contact from the rear in the split seconds it actually happened, i had no sensation of losing any shape under braking at all.. but then in hindsight, even later in race when i was playing catch up, the back end got a bit un-ruly at that same corner a few times. My mirrors were full of a blue pantera at the time and i wrongly concluded it was that beast that had clumped me. :(
 So DG and Simon are spot on when they wisely request we keep our fired up emotions in check straight after a race. :angel: 
I have had myself publicly flogged in the virtual town square  ;)

My DFP has been pretty good, but the build quality of the pedals isn't great. Mine rock from side to side a bit, which can cause spikes. If I lift off the throttle suddenly I get a blip on the brakes, it catches me out from time to time.

yep true about the pedals being flimsy, i got through a set in about 6 months and then bought some shiny Speed 7's  8)...didn't make me any quicker though for all that investment  :-[

The DFP pedals are indeed flimsy, but the wheel is great!  I broke my pedals within a month and I've been using my old Wingman FF pedals ever since (old doesn't cover it tbh, they're not even USB :o but at least they work!) There are lots of people here who've had no issues with them though.  I'm seriously considering a G25 for S6, but I use the stick shift of the DFP for changing gear and I've heard the G25 in that mode is a little flimsy.  Any thoughts there?

The thing about these old cars is that a lot of them have very old-fashioned suspension setups (live axles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_axle) and similar) which feel modern right up until the point where they start to let go, at which time they spit you off the track in a completely unexpected direction.

I wish GTL supported MoTeC logging because I think it would reveal a number of interesting things about properly setting up the historics.

Hi all
Sorry I didn't make it. Started new chemo regime, one long session Tuesdays. Left me feeling very ill this week and only just recovering. Should be more used to it next week and able to join you if there is a race.

Peter

DFP ordered!!  I suppose if the inevitable pedal failure occurs I can use my MS Sidewinder ones which I dismantled and cleaned and greased a month ago.

I think MoTeC logging would be one step too far for me - I'm pretty clueless when it comes to setting up the cars, if it understeers, a bit more front spring and roll bar, that's it for me really apart from playing with the diff!!

So is anything taking place next week?  I'll hopefully have a shiny new wheel to try out  ;D

As one who usually starts from the rear of the grid it was a nice change to see virtually the whole field heading up the straight.  :D

With a rolling start, particularly on a short track, I tend to see only a few cars after the first turn.  The leaders are best part of half a lap ahead of me before I'm up to racing speed.  When I'm lapped the leading cars are spaced so that when I lift or move off line it's like letting a train through.  This slowing is then cumulative as the next gaggle of cars are closing fast and it's extremely difficult to get back on line and up to speed.  With a stranding start the leaders fighting each other slows them down and gives them less of a start, so it takes longer before I get lapped; also errors tend to allow me to pass faster drivers and give me a race if only for half a lap.

I prefer standing starts.  ;D

Bill

I use stick shift (sequantial) and it's great. There is no clicking sound when you change gears, like with the DFP, but I like that, as it sounded to plastic for me. In H-gated the gearstick isn't really good and it wears the stick out quickly I think, so I went back to sequantial.

No need to apologize