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Special Notes:
1) There are no start lights, instead there are "authentic" starting marshals who wave a green flag to mark the start of the race.
2) The pole sitter can't see any of these marshalls without using the "look left" feature.

Practice: 20:15 (10 mins)
Qualifying: 20:25 (25 mins)
Race: 20:50 (25 laps = ~40 mins)

Track: Snetterton 1964 v1.3 (download here (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3358.msg54520#msg54520))
Cars allowed: Ferrari 275, Austin Healey, Mercedes 300SL, Shelby GT350
Time of Day Setting: 6:00
Start: STANDING

Server: UKGTL Classics Cup
Password: see above (#post_event_password)

Notes:
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I have not decided on the car list yet. If it's possible if anyone has a spare night either tonight or Saturday could they try the following GTC-65 cars at this track and post relative lap times...
1) Austin Healey 3000
2) Chevlrolet Corvette
3) Ferrari 275 GTB
4) Jag E-Type
5) Lotus Elan
6) Mercedes 300SL
7) Shelby Daytona Coupe
8) Shelby GT350
9) TVR Griffith 400

Thanks in advance to anyone that has the time to try these cars.

Had a try of some, benchmarked to E-type.  Started with E-type, 12 laps to reacquaint with track, then 5 timed lap for each of the others.  I'm no expert in any, jack of all trades, so should be reasonably representative.

Shelby Daytona  -2.0
Corvette           -1.4
E-type             +0.0
Ferrari              +1.6
Healey              +1.8

Merc would be close to Healey, since this is a real power circuit, and Healey run out of steam.
TVR should be pretty close to Shelby
GT350, around Ferrari maybe, lot more grunt and Ferrari lacks torque.
Elan needs benchmarking, anyone's guess.

But I'm outta time, gotta go cook, may get a chance tomorrow morning if no-one else does.

Thanks Steve, that's really helpful.

No problem Simon.

In fact, grabbed time to lap Elan and got -0.8 compared to E-type.  Not enough twisties for the tin foil wonder to gain time on the V8s!

What if you took out the fast cars, Daytona, Griffith, maybe Elan, Corvette and maybe even E-type too?

That would leave a race between
Healey
Ferrari
Mercedes
Shelby GT350

This way the differences in cars wouldn't be so big. I'd say there is no way to compensate when driving the slower cars, if you're driving against Daytona and Griffith. Only way to beat the faster cars is if they spin *multiple* times.

Just a thought, feel free to reject it.

Personally I enjoy the Daytona a lot, and out of the slow ones the Ferrari is pretty nice too, bound to get sideways a lot towards the end of the race in both.

Mike's suggestion would work, I got times for the other 2 'slow' cars:

GT350    +2.1
Merc      +2.4

so all within 0.8s.  I'd happily take the Merc for a change, it was really stable to drift too.

Of course the fast V8s would all match up well too, so it's up to the boss!

Oh and three times

1.35.3 Daytona
1.37.3 Elan (+2)
1.39.9 Ferrari (+4,5)

Thanks guys. Car list now confirmed in original race post. Ultimately I think the E-Type would be quite a lot quicker than the other 4 cars so it's not really fair to use it.

Ooh Jolly, the GT350 (http://brick121.hyves.org/110800001-110850000/110840701-110840800/110840710_6_8C_5.jpeg) ;D

*burble burble* *burble burble*

Quite! What a fantastic beast it is.

If only I'd not taken the Mustang for Oulton, too similar, need more variety, and I've never driven the Merc in more than a 5-lapper before.  This is probably one of the few tracks where it can be moderately competitive.  Besides, it was the only one I couldn't get below 1:40, so that presents a nice challenge!

I think the standard (non-lightweight) fastback E-type might be fair, I'm usually a few 10ths quicker in the Ferrari than that, but there isn't any way to exclude the lightweights is there?

Nope, the car filtering doesn't go that far unfortunately.

Anybody else got some times? This track is not listed on either gtlrank or nogrip. I've only driven Ferrari and my best so far is a 1.39.4.

Family visit means I can't make this one. Have fun and see you in The Netherlands next week.

Phil Gilliland

I'll be there tonight..with the right track version this time  ::)

Probably take the Shelby for a change but need to try all available. Seems more a power circuit with more time spent on open throttle than braking/turning.

With the GT350 and Merc I was doing 1:40's, but when I tried the Fezza, I did a 1:38.5 in my first lap. So it looks like that car will dominate here :-\

Only if all the aliens take it!! ::)
(Aliens take the slower cars and us normal folk take the faster cars then we can all have a close race!! :-\)

I'll stick with the GT350. Once I'm infront it will be hard to overtake a sideways Shelby  ;D. Just ask MJ :P

Might try one of them yank jobs myself this eve.

Anyone got a decent setup (for humans with two hands, not alien stuff! :P ) ?
Failing that i'll give the Fezza and Healey a try out beforehand.

It looks like I won't make it in time for the race. Shame, I'd have enjoyed some Merc on Fezza racing.



Have a good one guys.

Gutted, dont believe it !  ??? :(

Qualied 5th, looking forward to great race, about 4 laps into the race i am running 5th and enjoying myself, then the car just warped back to my garage mid corner leaving me sitting looking at the timing screens...wtf?  >:(
And it wouldnt even let me rejoin the track, like i was parked up for the duration.

Never had that one happen before !  :'(

Great track, though i hope that isnt an inherent bug in the conversion ?

Was having a great time on the first lap, got a good start and made 4 places cleanly in the melee. Then I got nudged off at the corner after the bridge. Ruined my race, was struggling to catch the cars ahead, and made several mistakes as a result. Reminds why I don't play GTL these days.

Well that was a totally atrocious race! Managed to get up to 5th (from 10th grid) and then someone just ploughed through at the end of the long straight and speared me straight off.  Thanks for that, I was looking forward to fighting a rearguard action against all the Ferraris and at least having a good scrap.  I'll certainly be looking very closely at the replay.  Not quite the nice clean racing I join in for.

Then after restarting near the tail I did my best to close the gap but after encountering a stationary Ferrari (lag) and crashing trying to avoid it I called it a day.

Shame everyone went for the Ferrari, would have been nice to have a little more variety in the field (and they accuse Alfas of being a dull choice ;)), hard to do much against 80% of the grid in a car at least a second quicker  ;D

Bad luck Mark, not sure anyone else had that, and Aagramn, sounds like a familiar story to me  :(  Hope the survivors enjoyed a good race though.

Missed it  >:(

Back for next week though - hope you all enjoyed  :P

He he. I won the Healey class  ;D

Had a good few laps to start with, making 8 places on the 1st lap thanks to people making mistakes. But the Fezza's were too quick for me on the straights and I dropped to a lonely 10th or so before deciding that the track was too easy and the car should be either offroad or an aeroplane  :-\

Still got to the end  :)

Yeah, I encountered that too..just before the bridge...sent me off too but I managed to go wide enough to miss the bridge and take a 'short cut' over the grass.

Must admid wasn't too impressed with some of the passing moves, rejoining and once again had people racing me into the corners from miles back in qualifying. I know nobody likes to be stuck behind a slower driver in quali, but come on folks...we have a right to be there too.

Other than that it was good. didn't make any bad unforced errors and was lapping about the speeds I expected. nice track, would have loved it with more veriety though.

Grats to winner and podium

Was wondering what happened MJ.

My race was alright - the start didn't help - I lost something like 7 places.  I came back through the field strongly though - hit a 1:38.5 once I got some space, but it was mostly in the 1:39 area.

I wa running 5th and closing dowen Shark when he hit the bridge somehow  and I was 4th ... thow on earth did you mess that up??  I found out a few laps later when I had to go round the outside of the bridge on 2 occasions and was back in 7th.  I had a massive tussle with Pribeiro and Ossie - I got the better of Prib - and was all over Ossie like a rash - but couldn't get by and ran out of laps.  I finished 5th, it could have been better.

Still - a good nights racing.

I had a few mistakes that caused outbursts of expletives - you don't want to be asked numberoius questions by your wife when you're sliding at the limit!!!  Think the expletives got me in trouble .... but I've apologised so it's all good.

Shame about your race MJ - we should have had a good fight you and I.

This race actually bothered me, qualified 14th(normal) but with my best time to date, the start was bad, what was going on up there? someone not see the start countdown or what? first turn looked like a demo derby, race is 25 laps gents. once under way it was good for maybe the front stretch till dust is flying again in turn 1, tried to settle down after avoiding spinning cars then Dan M was fast approaching in the mirror, I thought I let off enough for him to pass but seemed like he wasnt going around, now trying to go side by side thru corner, I had poor entry and pushed off to get stuck on mound of grass, found my way back behind Psuedo saw Mark J had left game and thought why would he leave? then I get the Disco. Damm, I'm sorry to fish off like this but I was really looking forward to a good finish today, fish!

Kevin.

I got a blinding start with my manual clutch and moved from 8th to 2nd by turn 1. Turn 2 I was down to 3rd as Baracus took his rightful place back ahead of me, then spent a few laps seeing Backo close me down and after trading places with him, the next lap he had me for real (yo) and I was started to drop back down the order to the position I started in. Then the trouble started. The H-Pattern Shifter kept missing 5th gear and it caused a few problems for me.


Basically it didn't shift up into 5th and I had neutral, my foot went to the clutch to try and get the gear, by which time the corner was upon me and my foot which should have been on the brake was nowhere near it and I whacked into the bridge. Of course my cheating Ferrari suffered absolutely no damage and once I'd stalled it once more trying to get going and then managed to navigate my way over the huge banks I was down to 10th.

Everytime it missed a gear my arms and hands were struggling to comprehend where they should be to get out of the neutral gear situation and in the end I had absolutely no one to race for the rest of the race (which was well over half of it).

I think that's the last time I'll use the H-pattern, at least for any cars that have more than 4 gears. It's too much like hard work and although feels fun, is much slower for me than paddle shifting and is a danger to myself and others.

Wow that was hard and great.

Already started in qually where I swapped setup with 10 minutes to go. And luckily for me it was better and I had pole with 2 minutes to go. Then Madd went out and I saw that he was quicker in the first and 2nd sector and I knew what was gonna happen. With no time to spare for an outlap and timed lap I had to settle with 2nd. WHich I was happy with, as I have usually good standing starts.

At the starting grid something strange happened. There were cars passing me when the green flag wasn't waved yet. So when the timer started I floored it and immediatly took the lead.
I held on to that for some laps untill I touched the inside of the tight hairpin and it sent me round. I floored it to do a 360 but the sanddune beached me. Bara was quickly to overtake me and he had a big lead then (R: 783)
Few laps later I messed up again, spinning and losing another 4 seconds (R: 960). The 2nd setup I chose only had 22 degrees of steering lock, and normally I drive with 34,5. So when this car drifted, I couldn't catch it anymore.
At that point I was following Bara at a 10s gap. Noway I was gonna gain that in 15 laps. He then had something with a backmarker I think and I was 4s behind again. But he was quicker and drove off again. I had to hope for mistakes by him.
Even in his slipstream I wasn't gaining anything, but at one point he touched the grass at the last corner and I could overtake him on the s/f straight.
He was right behind me at the next straight and outdrafted me, and outbraked himself. So I was still on first place, but struggling (R: 2165)
I was surprised to see him outdraft me with no problem, whereas I wasn't doing that in the same situation. It was like he had no slipstream :-\.
Lap later he outbraked me at the hairpin and I dropped to 2nd. The corner before the Dunlop bridge we were door to door drifting through (and shaking hands ; (R: 2288))).
Again, lap later at the backstraight. I got a better exit and could get alongside. Braked as late as possible but the backend locked and my nose was pointing left, where Bara was  :o. Scary moment for me, as I was afraid I'd hit him, but luckily it wasn't the case and the pass succeeded (R: 2362).
Last lap, again before the hairpin, Bara tried outbraking me, but braked a bit too late and got wide (R: 2463).

Great battle in the end with Bara. I usually take some slower car to have great midfield battles, but the difference with the other cars (mainly Fezza) was huge, which would have made it impossible to fight them. That's why I went for the Fezza as well, and to fight for the championship. In the end I got the battle I was hoping for, not midfield, but with Bara for the win. So even with picking the best car, I had a good race and had to push me .... off  ;D.

I added replay times in my post here Ossie, so that maybe makes it easier for you on the videodepartment.

Unofficial Lapchart (http://www.lapcharts.teamshark.org.uk/Lapcharts/GTL Snetterton 64 04-10-2007/index.html)

Quite obvious what happened I think, you jumpstarted and didn't go in for the s/g penalty. You probably drove off when the 30s tiemr reached 0. I drove off when the timer started running and by that time you already moved halve a carlength.

 :oops: Firstly I must apologise to everyone about the start.

I sneezed and let go of the clutch..... :stupid: then the car lurched as I stalled and tried to restart it then I got a jump start and finally left the line bunny hopping like a learner driver.....oooh the shame of it. :blink:

Totally gutted as my quali was an absolute stonker of a lap, a pb by over half a second, in the dying moments too.

After I served my stop/go, I decided I had nothing to lose by just driving like a Maddman(sorry couldn't help myself  ;) ) and just drove my ass off, putting in almost quali times I slowly edged up on people and got past them, had some fine scraps with Adam, Pribeiro, Ossie, Shark, Syd (all very clean but hard I might add) but I was just making so much time up in the braking for the hairpin and keeping the speed in the last corner that I eventually emerged in 4th, not bad after such an awful start.

Grats to the podium, but this ends my shot for the championship I think.

Still very promising drive for myself.  ;D

That was a mentally tough race! I feel for poor Hamilton right now :-)

In Qualy I just couldn't string together the time I could have got - every time I was up on the fist sector I would be too greedy at the hairpin and miss the apex! Still don't think I would have grabbed pole with Madd's last minute effort!! :)

As has been said the start was odd - I saw a Fez coming up behind me when we still had like 20 seconds to go then it vanished. So, settled into 2nd chasing Jeff - gaining and caught him but misjudged his braking distance and had to go straight on  at a turn to avoid clipping his rear.

Lost about 5 seconds and then a few laps trying to get my charge back on! Few laps later I came across a lesser-spotted mistake by Ruskus foraging in the grass at the hairpin, so I passed by quietly trying not to scare him off :)

So leading, and pulling a gap out if I got a tidy lap. Unfortunately came across a stranded backmarker at 90 degrees across the kerb after the bridge, but he got going just as I went past and went into me - shame coz he wouldnt have been able to see me coming at that angle - and I went onto the grass, just about held it without loosing too much momentum but Jeff was in my mirrors now and gaining. I made another mistake of my own making and then Ruskus and I had that mega battle for about the last 4 or 5 laps... really close stuff :D

I think the reason I could get a slipstream off you Jeff, is that I was getting a better run through the bridge or out of T1 on those occassions. What gear ratio were you running?

Longest, and by the looks of it behind you, you were running middle, right? But didn't middle reline alot at the long straight?

Yes, but don't tell the mechanics!  :shifty:

Sorry Jeff in case you thought I was having a go at you (as I mentioned Alfas being boring which I know you said a few races ago) - I definitely wasn't, since you clearly don't just go for the quickest car!!  I stole your words as I agree with what you said about Alfas, get a bit bored with TC65 servers full of Alfas and tend to avoid them (even though it is one of the nicest cars to drive).  Just a shame I picked this race to go for a slow car when few people did.

Sounds like a good one for a lot of people, excellent  :).  Definitely hoping for fun at the last one after two frustrating races though.

Yeah it did but only for about 100-150 metres, and you get to its top speed a bit quicker so I found there wasn't enough benefit to running longer gears just for that straight when the mid gears was better everywhere else (turns better and better grunt out).

Exactly!  ;D

Nono, don't worry, was just explaining my carchoice  ;D

Did wonder if it might have been something to do with the start sequence, but although i did lurch forward, i stopped immediately, not passing anyone, and waited as the 3-2-1 flashed up and was never given any stop and go warnings audibally or visually  ??? and the game didnt throw me in garage when i crossed the s/f line after 3 laps, i think i was entering a corner at the time?

Might explain it if thats what it actually was, but also saw someone ahead lurch forward then stop and dont think they suffered the same as me ?

Shame, would have been a good race up front.

That would be very strange Mark if you got a stop and go but didn't actually get given it. After I saw you lurch a whole car length from your grid spot before the lights went I was sure you'd get one. Perhaps another symptom of using an addon track.

someone else got disco'd didnt they?

Dont think i went a car length anyway more a foot or two, someone ahead of me lurched further forward but dont know who it was.

Strange to not get any warnings if thats what it was though ??? Not as if i didnt have time to pull in, i was in free track at the time under no pressure.

Been robbed of both my league races this week  :'(

Well the results show you as DQ'd so I guess that must be what happened.

This is an unfortunate consequence of using addon tracks. They can't be tested fully and some of them appear to have bugs in. Oulton Park seems to be prone to providing CTDs and Discos perhaps this one is prone to other things. We either have to say ok so sometimes this will happen with addon tracks or we simply don't use any at all. :-\

No replay? Been looking forward to seeing how you guys did.

Phil Gilliland

Look in the navigation tab above labeled 'REPLAYS' you normally find them in there  ;)

It is of course entirely possible that the game did announce a jump start and MJ just missed it... I don't think there's any way to verify it.

 :( I only just saw the jump start message, so I was lucky/unlucky in that respect, its not particularly visible, it would be better if it stayed on screen or some other form of permanent reminder.

In GTR2 I think there's a black flag shown until you serve the penalty, but I don't think there's anything like that in GTL (and besides, I've not always been able to get GTL to actually let me serve the penalty!).

Another good reason to turn off black flags in GTL...

Ah yes I've had one in GTR2 too, plus doesn't your crew notify you too?

vid of the race
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=SH92H1Y0 (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=SH92H1Y0)