SimRacing.org.uk

NGT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 4 at Brno

Date: Tuesday 2nd August

Practice 1: 8:45pm (15 mins)
Qual 2: 9:00pm (15 mins)
Warmup: 9:15pm (2 mins)
Race: 9:17pm (30 mins)

Cars allowed: Any NGT car or 911 Bi-Turbo or Mosler or Vertigo or Morgan. (Lotus Elise, BMW Z3M, Porsche GT3 Cup are allowed but will not score points.)

Notes:
(1) Please try to arrive 15 minutes early during Practice 1.
(2) Server Password has been emailed to those registered racers for each championship. Please contact a member of the admin team to get the password if you are registered and have forgotten or not received the password. It will not be given out in the GTR chatroom as that is a public place. The password wont change for the season unless there are security concerns.
(3) See  UKGTR Season 1 Info (http://www.ukgtr.org/series.php?series=103) for general Season 1 info.
(4) Please make sure you are fully aware of the UKGTR Rules (http://www.ukgtr.org/rules.php)

i will definatley need practice here ;D

Lol, wasn't looking forward to this one, will be going through the motions a bit I think rather than enjoying it.

What was the designer using when he planned the track out? Lego bricks? It's all boring 90 degree turns and most of them are off-camber >:(
There are so many corners in there that would benefit from opening up/closing up to get a bit more variety in there.

I think I might break the habit of a lifetime and drive a 360 here because it feels a bit more planted than the GT3RS. Best time so far... a measly 2:05:09  :'( ;D

Traitor! Right, that's you thrown out of the GT3RS owners club!

Jeez, it'll just be me driving Porsche against an entire massed field of 360's soon!  ;D

This track does indeed suck (my second most hated after Enna), be glad to get it out of the way.

Best time of 2:06.6 but I've not done too many laps yet.

Pops.

Thats exactly what I thought, tried the GT3 earlier and the arse was all over the place

You want planted? Go drive the Bi-T u sissy! ;) ;D

MOSLER MT900 02:03.828 is my best time for allowed cars so far. I'm guessing that was with speedbug though ;)  :D

T

Two q's about Brno....

• Is it me or are the AI opponents really crap at Brno?
  
• Again, is it me or is the Brno track significantly more 'slidey' than other tracks?

Pops

AI I don't know m8. Hardly drive against them ever.

The slidey may be what PaulW said about the corners being off-camber. Which doesn't really hold the car on to the track like, say, Anderstorp! ;)

T

It does feel really slippy to me! Lots of corners that slope away and have a nice kerb at the top to bump you down that slope. With maximum downforce already on and careful tyre pressure balancing to make sure I've got the most grip it is then all down to my driving- see my problem?!

Also, once the tyres have slid and overheated it seems like you loose way more rear grip than at other courses. Still hate it by the way  ;)

Cool! I was a bit concerned it was my crappy driving that was to blame :)

At least it seems relatively easy to get the tyre temps up & balanced at Brno, which just leaves my crappy driving....!

There doesn't seem to be much difference in my laptimes between my Q and race set-up's which is my other cause for concern at present. Usually I can get a couple of sec's faster in my Q set-up.


There does seem like there's a lot higher tyre wear here than the other tracks.

Pops.

Welcome to the 360 owners club, you'll enjoy it here :-)

Fozzmeister

Goody, might do OK then, usually my tires hit 70 degrees and stop, if I can get them upto temp while all you are overheating I;ll be sorted :-)

One of my favourite tracks... hope there is place for reserves on Tuesday so I can race with you guys. This track is all about rhythm and staying on the racing line. I like it a lot!  ;)

It feels so tempting to attack the corners here but of course it's totally counter-productive!

Managed a 2:04 last night which I'm pretty chuffed with, getting fairly consistent in my race set-up as well, almost looking forward to the race now!

Pops

LOL. My PB is 2:02 but I must have been on drugs when I did that cause I'm doing 2:05s / 2:06s now.
Hmm, time to fiddle with the setup.

I knew I was doing something wrong!  ;D

Yeah, I'mgrabbing a wrap of speed and putting Ace Of Spades on a loop for Tuesday night then...

I might have a go in the 911 GT3 RS as it's a circuit that favours corner braking and rear brake balance and it's turning into a Ferrari fest at the moment which we don't really want.

The only good thing about Brno, is if it rains (yet again) then there's a lot of space to understear off  into :-)

Fozzmeister

Hmmm, strange how you all seem to hate the place but I love it! I think my base 360 setup suits the corners at Brno and Barcelona more than than the chicaney ones at Magny Cours or Enna. Now if I could just think of a way to keep Bernie out of the equation in his turbo rocket ship......  :o

Not everyone hates it Paul. I quite like Brno too, although it's a bit like the Budweiser track off that TV advert.  ;)

I just don't see it like that at all. In an NGT I find it quite flowing, with most of the entries into the twisty bits quite fast and flowing if you get the line right. The challenge is to keep the speed up till the last moment before getting the car setup for a good exit onto the next straight. It's certainly not go/stop/go/stop/go like Magny Cours.

PS You can't have tried very hard if you are still in the 2.05s  ;)

I  don't find Magny like that at all, there's only two big stops (hairpin and school), the others are either about diving on the brakes when the back end is still a bit wobbly, or braking as little as you dare and bashing over cubs... In feel I find it quite similar to Donnington in a lot of places, and Enna in other places.

Fozzmeister

You must be driving a different Magny Cours to me then Fozz!

After the fast Estoril and the straight you are right down to walking pace at Adelaide.
Then after the fast Nurburgring chicane you again have to back right off the throttle for 180.
Another fast chicane at Imola and yet another near hairpin at Chateau D'eau.
The finally at Lycee you are also pretty slow due to the  need to keep the car settled for the last chicane.

I make that 4 pretty slow bits where you are off the power for significant periods.

Brno has several 2nd gear corners, but you chuck the car in and power through most of them because they are more 90 degree bends than the hairpins at MC, where you have to wait and wait till the car is right round the corner.

Horses for courses I suppose. I also think that its a bit less all or nothing at Brno, so you can edge up to the limit. MC always seems to be sucking you into taking just that bit more curb or getting on the power before the car will take it, and then boom - it bites you. All I really care about is that I'm a lot more competitive at Brno than MC.

Paul

I'm getting into the Brno flow you describe Paul, gradually. And enjoying it a little more. It does actually flow eventually when you get used to it but I'm still a bit narked to only have a 2:06 on the board when I feel like I'm pushing pretty hard. The reason I'm not going hell for leather is that, unlike Mangy where I can get a little ragged and still keep it on the tarmac, Brno really seems to bite and all of a sudden I've spun. Guess I just don't have the limits worked out well enough yet compared to other tracks. Can't wait to get Brno over to be honest!

Well if by that you mean "haven't practiced NGT Brno at all" then correct.  ;D
Probably end up doing 30 mins before hand tomorrow.

Either you are very confident in your ability to learn very fast or resigned to not winning then  :P

What can I say, I'm just a winner through and through.

This 3 races a week thing is a killer. Really hard to practice for all of them. Luckily I have some base setups to start from from my Monster Rank experience, but some of them (especially the 360 ones) are not great at the moment hence the need for practice for tweaking the setups.

Thats the best bit! big overtaking opportunities, wide enough to (usually) avoid accidents if you arse it up a bit


For me this, is power, brake as little as you dare for the chicane, watch for the bottom out (if it happens, usually for me, even in rain) get power down to help stability and don't worry about the rhs white line as you can cross it, get it settled and brake as late as possible for 180 (another great overtaking place). For me its all seat of the pants stuff which just is always pushing you to go faster and faster, and because of the depression, you can get away with most of the time.


Beautiful set, careful of right curb (actually I usually understear too much to hit it), give the left one shed loads of abuse (careful not to put both wheels the wrong side of the white line), mind you don't run out of road on the right (as the curb on the left throws you up when your coming back across it, yeh was doing that in the wet too!) and brake as soon as your car is remotely settled as hard as you dare (not a lot of time), power out, careful of back end.


Yeh boring, but its still a good overtaking point, and if you arse it, plenty of run-off. The chicane is horrid tho (im setup for those little diddy curbs, so I have to be careful there). The first set of corners is pretty horrid for me too.


Give into temptation, those chicanes are wonderful, and with some setup can take a shed loads of abuse, All the corners just beg you to push that little bit more, the banking and the runoffs, lets you take it, without too much fear.


Vice Versa, it took me a long time to fully appreciate Magny tho, so perhaps I can grow to love Brno too.

Fozzmeister

Can't make this one myself, buttah...

LOL!

T

P.S. You can wait for it, but it's not gonna move to the left this time ;)

Never driven the circuit before, been away for the weekend and left Mrs Wil and Wil jr's at the camp site for the week (how lucky can one man be?? ;))

So when I got in last night, about 1130 I did a few laps, managed to get down to 2:08's but I think with a bit more practice I'll get nearer the 6's.

I actually quite like the circuit, although tyre wear seems to be a little extreme, dosnt seem to take too long before the back end is waving around all over the shop!!

Lets hope not!! The last 3rd of the circuit favours powerful cars with the uphill drags so hopefully I'll be able to rocket past you on those!
I think Bruno is one of, if not the best circuit in the game. Definetly my personal fave of all the tracks - still doesn't mean I'm any good on it tho!

I'm learning to like it a lot more. It's funny- I'm not sliding out very much at all now so I guess it's one of those tracks where you really need to put the time in to learn the right speed/line for a corner and then you're set. I've got the Brno rhythm at last but others were still 2 secs quicker than me at last nights praccy so I'm still missing a few beats  :-\ ;)

Don't think there will be as many 'offs' as last week at Enna, it's a bit easier here to not quite get a corner right but still stay on the track.

Might get interesting at the end as tyre wear begins to bite...

definatley :-(


i will do that a lot :-S

see you all there ,hope to have no family disturbances so I can concentrate. No I want a hamster and then sulking tonight gon to stay with friend.lol. see you all later gerald

Made 2 mistakes. Instead of being 2nd, I was 5th!  ???

made 2 mistakes... isnt a good track for me... didnt do well... ah well :)

Disappointed to Q 12th until I saw the amazing array of times ahead of me - fantastic.

Brilliant race for me - didn't make any mistakes, nice and consistent (and reasonably fast) for an 8th place  ;D and we had a full compliment of 'aliens' (compared to me anyway) in tonight  ;)

Great battle with RUF for about 10 mins, couln't catch you mate, really bad luck at the end to spin :(

Backmarkers were impeccable too :)

The less said about my teammates performance tonight the better eh Paul ;)

Glad that ones done with!
Span on the formation lap and ran out fo fuel with only the hill to go! Muppet! Race said 15 laps sp I put the high end of 15 laps of fuel in (one down from 16) but clearly, not e-bloody-nuff. Ya live and learn as they say.

So started in about 14th and fought up to 10. About mid way through Fozz catches me and starts applying "Fozzpressure"(tm). Was really driving consistently and enjoying blocking here and there but the fuel got me. My mechanic, his wife, his poor undernourished children) and the sickly cat are all out on the streets tonight ;)

I only had two qualify laps, one was destroyed by me, one by someone rejoining track, and thus started last, looking at the times, I should have been about 5th-7th, Heck in the race I was doing 2:03's and even got a fastest lap quite late in the race.

I went from 24th to 13th (I think) was pretty easy, every lap a qualify lap. never more than a lap or so to overtake anybody. They I saw PaulW and I knew that was going to be tricky, was always just in the wrong place at the wrong time (for me). In the end I got a drag up the hill at the end and just nosed infront for the tiniest time, but I knew he was just going to go round the outside and get the more favourable inside line onto the main straight, little bit of contact but nothing to worry about. PaulW was super consistent and me and him worked our way up a few places together, mostly through dropouts.

In the end, after 20 minutes of work PaulW ran out of fuel, and the place was mine, great driving though PaulW

I have to watch the replay, got a feeling I have some penalties coming my way however, so it all might have been for nothing...

Fozzmeister

I hit every spinning car in the first few laps... :(

I followed Gerald closely until  I dumped it coming out of a bend. I then retook him, when he span a few laps later... didn't see anyone else the whole race, until letting the leader through on last lap. On hindsight, if I had stayed on lead lap, I would have gained 2 places. Dunno what my pace was like, but i'm settling into GTR a bit, now i've turned my force feedback up a bit.

right, what crap is next?

had a pretty good start took 4 places, but also lost 3 places, then in the last few laps got fps problems and framerates dropped back to 12 fps, before that had popa on my back we had a steady race for 10 mins, was great fun. well next i hope i don't get fps probs.

cheers

Not from me m8, bit of contact but we both stayed on the road so good hard racing in my book.

Replay is up.

For me PB in qual 2 was the highlight, but still only got me 10th on the grid. Had contact on first lap and ended up dead last. Finished 11th and had some good battles on the way. Enjoyed those last couple of laps Iain  :)

First NGT race for me, havn't driven theF360 for a long time so was a bit rusty to say the least. Qualified 8th which was satisfying, was never going to live with the fast guys.
Had 2 lots of contact on lap 1 with JM, racing incidents in my book. First contact i was on the outside, both survived. 2nd contact I was on the inside, tried to leave enough track for JM but he turned into me and spun off, guess I was in his blindspot, hope he feels the same way as me and considers them both as racing incidents.
Moved up to 6th after a while but Paul was closing fast.  
Then comes my 3rd contact of the race, Paul takes the inside line, I know hes there but cant see him.  He runs a little wide carrying too much speed and takes me out, or did I turn into him ? Either way I visit the gravel and loose a few seconds, no big deal, another racing incident in my book.
Overall a really enjoyable race, finished 7th which was a bargain.

Brilliant race for me!!!

New PB in qually to put me 4th, held that round the first lap with Shark sniffing at my heels, saw first Paul then TrueTom make mistakes, leaving me in 2nd place!

Held off Shark for the whole race to make it a dE Racing 1-2 finish woohoo!!  No mistakes along the way which is a welcome change, thankyou to those I lapped, you were very co-operative :)

Congrats to Matjas for a fine win :D

Thanks Mike ! Great result for our team and not so interesting race for me. Starting from the pole I felt some preassure in the first lap from Paul but then saw him making a mistake coming into te first corner. From then on it was all about keeping the concentration and increasing my lead to a safe distance in case I do a mistake or have troubles overtaking the backmarkers. That didn't happened and I just dropped the pace for the last two laps and brought it home without to much stress. Hope you all enjoyed the race and let's hope for a nice fight in Donington as well... a home territory for most of you guys.  ;)

Results up here:

http://www.ukgtr.org/lm2-report.php?group=10121&event=22

Drivers and team championships starting to take shape now.

http://www.ukgtr.org/lm2-report.php?group=10121&content=

A very competitive race, but by the end of it I was sick to death of Mike's rear end. Oof, those exhaust fumes, very smelly.  :P Start to finish for 30 mins with nothing but the rear of Mike's Ferrari filling my view.

Mike and I were almost identical in lap times both in qualy and race. I never once tried to make a move although I could have pushed a lot harder in the first 1/4 of the race whilst Mike seemed to be taking it a little easy getting up to full speed. After that was never more than 1.5 secs behind, just followed him the entire way hoping for a mistake but it never came. We were too close in raw speed for me to even think about a pass without a big mistake from Mike. Well driven under the pressure.

3rd place was a good result for me and PB in qually too, very satisfied with that.

Well done to Matjaz and Mike for the 1-2. Bloomin heck that was a stunning pole. There is no way whatever setup I make I can make up 2 seconds. Gonna be tough to beat Matjaz in the remaining races but these NGT races are becoming very nicely competitive on the lap times. Shame it's a bit of a F360 fest but there you go.

All incident reports to Gizmo (Dave Gymer) or Paul Harrington (Paul968) as usual please.

Thanks.

Bit miffed with that to be honest.

Crappy qual saw me in 17th, got a decent start and was scrapping with PaulW, Don1 and a couple of others, then made an unforced error, dropped back to 18th.
Picnic cought me and passed me, but was dragging me long, then my PC just stopped?? I think it heat siezed cos Id dropped the engine vent to 3  :-\

Anyway, it was fun whilst it lasted.

Yeh that's my reading too, in the end the penalty doesn't really matter so much to me (I'm not where I'd want to be in the championship anyway). Its the ones where I was going passed slower cars that concerns me, at present my judgement is clouded just because I was going passed a lot, I know there was contact with one or more, but I'm virtually incapable of storing things in my memory while I'm racing, so I can't form a judgement.

So far in all championships, I've not really stayed out of trouble, but IMHO everything has either bit totally not my fault, or nobody but me has paid for my mistakes. This is a viewpoint that I wish to preserve :-)

Fozzmeister

I hadn't done a lot of testing with the Porsche 911 GT3-RS(love the 360 but so many people driving it) and set up for the race with soft/medium tires. About half way through the race I thought the tires felt they were starting to go off,(might have got too hot didn't check) so decided to try and ease off a bit and keep some Tire in reserve. The change of rhythm had me spinning off twice and saw me lose a few places, So got myself out of the sand and started going at it again, luckily for me some people in front had problems and I managed to finish picking up a few points in the process. So one happy camper here!
Were any of you other guys in the Porsche's struggling with grip?
Don.

Not hugely, but from what I can tell, heavy tyre wear is a feature at Brno.

I didn't really push too hard at any point through the race so I was trying to not to put too much strain on the tyres hoping I'd pick up a few easy places as others span out towards the end - that didn't happen!

I was lapping fairly consistently around 2:06.0 - 2:06.5 if that helps.

[EDIT] I was running Soft/Meds.

As Matjas said in an earlier post, this track is all about staying on the driving line, I can totally see what he means now!

Cheers, Pops

I had no real lose of grip throughout the 30 mins but had meds front and rear. I'm not happy running a soft/med mixture except as a qual setup as I find the tyres wear at different rates and then I usually end up with a very oversteery car. And once I start spinning it compounds the issue.

Couldn't find any decent grip in learning the track in the usual GT3RS. Had to break the habit of a lifetime and take a 360 last night and it had substantially more grip 'out of the box'. Having put a lot of laps in in the 360 I think it just edges the GT3RS overall with slightly more grip and slightly better exits in corners. Really disappointing because NGT is like a single make series at the moment. Hoping the GT3RS feels faster for Donnington!

The rollercoaster continued with a pretty good qual (except who let Mat in the backdoor!), a close first lap on Mat's heels and then a stupid error at turn 1 dropping me to 10th  :-[ Spent the next lap riht behind Colin, who was not easy to pass and in trying I almost let JM Racing past into the last chicane. Finally got by Colin at T1 and chased down Popa, who I caught a couple of laps later. He clearly didn't want to dispute the position, giving in up the hill at the end of the lap. In 8th now and Greg is the next car, several seconds away. Took a few laps to get on terms, in the meantime Ruf had spun out (so close to taking Greg with him!). Made a silly slip and lost a coupe of seconds, which added to the time to get back to Greg. Got a run out of T1, outbraked down the inside into T2 and ran a touch wide, so that when Greg turned in (I was ahead at ths point) he bounced off me into the gravel. This was a tricky one, as he couldn't see me at all until turn in, whereas in real life he would have had more peripheral vision and waited. Anyway, sorry you lost out Greg. In 6th now and Bernie was well up the road in the Millenium Falcon. Luckily his warp drive wasn't working too well, as I caught up a few laps later. He was by then starting to reel in TrueTom, and as I made another small slip and dropped back a touch, Bernie made an audacious move up the hill right between Tom and a backmarker - great stuff! Tom did his best to stay in touch but lost a bit of ground out of T1, giving me a bit of a run into T2. I was looking to outbrake but prepared to back out if necessary, but Tom turned in earlier than usual which took me by surprise. The was slight contact as I slid down the inside and took the place, but I felt that it wasn't legit so backed off and gave it back. The last few laps I spent chasing Tom hard on worn tyres, with little slides putting paid to my efforts to pass, and so ended in 6th.

Can't really complain, as the race was a lot of fun and the mistake was all my fault. My lack of race practice realy shows atm, but I feel it's getting better. Frame rate wasn't a big problem but it still affects my driving - I am at least half a sec quicker offline and had a 2.00.4 in practice. Overall I enjoyed it tho, but with a tinge of disappointment not be fighting at the front.

Paul

Well I really enjoyed that. The 1st race since race 1 that I didnt get 1fps. Tried to drive a consistent line and speed ( :D ), hoping that I`d pick up a couple of places with fall offs. This happened, and after 3 or 4 laps I`d jumped 4 places, however this didnt last  :-[. I spun under no pressure and let Jam and someone else thru, then on the last corner, after letting all the leaders thru, I let As-Here thru thinking he was ahead of me, but he wasnt, and then he was - d`oh!!!

Cheers

Rob

Guilty as charged. I guess it's not really 100% in the spirit of things but as you chased me down SO quickly (I'm guessing you were 2-3s a lap faster) I decided I didn't an awful lot to gain by potentially blocking you for 20 mins (which wasn't going to happen!) and not to mess with my conservative driving strategy as I had a decent gap over 10th place at that time.

Maybe one day I'll be able to take you on Paul   ;)

Been there, done that!  :-[ ::) ;D

I fixed that problem by mapping the 'look behind' button to my steering wheel, then it's easy to check the position of whoever is behind you (as long as you have the 'tab' pressed).

Pops

To finish first (or 10th!) first you must finish!

Just a thought- have you tried turning the steering wheel off Paul? Not having to draw that might give you a few extra frames.

Yep - tried that. Tyf gave me a few ideas too, but I really just need more CPU horsepower than an XP 1600. It's mainly when there are lots of cars on the server that I get problems - I had a 2.00 something in qual on Monday night on the server, but there were much fewer drivers then.

thx for the suggestion anyway :)

Paul

2.00??? Where was I losing 7 seconds in my Porsche GT3! :(

2.00 is insane! Have you a replay of a lap near that time? I'm interested in just how differently you're driving to gain 4 seconds on my best time  :-\

I was a bit nervous of Brno before the race, but now it counts as one of my favourite circuits!  It's quite technical but has a great flow to it.

I was taking it relatively easy in the opening couple of laps until the tyre temps stabilised, then I could start speeding up when the grip really appeared :)  The tyres lasted really well, no apparent problems with excessive wear, still had good grip at the end from my medium-medium Dunlops (really nice tyre, love them!)

Paul, I can try and reproduce my 2:01.6 from qually if you want :)

Here you go :

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/paul.harrington/Brno%20360%20HL%202004.Vcr

I expect if you ask nicely, Mat has a sub 2 minute lap tucked away somewhere  :o

I watched Paul in qualifying and he uses a hell of a lot of curb, brakes exceedingly late getting the back end ever so slightly out (I expect you're running a more than normal rear brake bias Paul? most of the really fast drivers usually do) enough to point the car in a better direction for the exit. It looked on the ragged edge to me which is probably why I can never be that fast as I'm quite a smooth driver. Hey if you can do it that's how to drive really fast.

If you've ever seen any of the real aliens of GPL you'll know what I mean by the whole rear brake bias thing and a sort of style that is really hard to master.

It's not a style most people can drive as you'll often end up spinning it a lot and you do have to tone it back a certain degree for racing over qualifying otherwise you risk losing it too easily.

Yeah an XP 1600 is not enough for GTR's CPU hungry algorithms.

Other than the graphics options which I'm sure you're quite aware of what to change, have you tried turning off the MOTEC logging, which is more of an issue when you have lots of cars cause of the extra it has to log to disk? (Can be done by deleting the paths to the motec stuf in your plr file)

Cheers guys.

Yep got that button mapped to my steering wheel as well - just not confident enough to look behind me, even though it will only be briefly, and keep it in a straight line. I can hear the pit voice already "its the splitter, the splitters gone".

Cheers

Rob

Think you will have to get used to looking behind, don't know how I would manage without it (I also have look left and right mapped as well). The mirror in my opnion just isn't good enough.
Don.

Yup, it's pretty much a necessity I think.

It's something to have a practice with - try it out on the really long straights at first though!

I'm not sure that rear bias and late braking is that important. I run about 55 on the bias, but as an experiment I put it forward to 60 and tried to do a lap without late, heavy braking and without any significant trail braking in fact in some of the twisty bits I just didn't brake but lifted instead. The result was far from perfect (not braking meant I slid wide at one point, which must have cost a few tenths) but still quite competitive - 2.02.0.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/paul.harrington/Brno%20Light%20Brake%202020.Vcr

You can see some corners where the brake lights are on part way after turn in, but this is more a case of trying to come off the brakes smoothly rather than any overt attempt to trail brake. Sure, in qual I'm pushing for every tenth by braking later, trail braking, etc, but its other things which really make the difference IMO.

Paul

I have a shitty PC myself as well so I have a button assigned to switch off the Motec display (tyre, brake tempreatures...) from which I gain 20+ FPS. I still have a nice and simple HUD display of revs and gear. Here is the way to have a HUD visible in the cockpit:

In the file name_driver.plr search the follow options:

HUD="2" // 0=none, 1=Full, 2=Minimal (when enabled)
Minimal HUD="1" // Whether minimal HUD is included when cycling through HUDs
Minimal HUD Position="1" // 0=left, 1=centre, 2=right

Allow HUD in cockpit="1"
1 is enabled, 0 is disable

There is a button (Controller - Extra - Toggle HUD) and if you press it after you have modified your .plr file you can have a HUD visible in your cocpit. By pressing the Toggle HUD button you can cycle through:

- no HUD

- minimal HUD (this one is my favourite and I use it all the time)

(http://img327.imageshack.us/img327/3535/car7wx.th.jpg) (http://img327.imageshack.us/my.php?image=car7wx.jpg)

- full HUD (to much information and to big if you ask me)

(http://img327.imageshack.us/img327/3591/car18pm.th.jpg) (http://img327.imageshack.us/my.php?image=car18pm.jpg)


All the rest (tyre temperature, brakes, time...) can be used when you need it. Just turn on your Motec display and then turn it off when you don't need it. It works fine for me. For most of the time in the race I use only minimal HUD and if I wan't to know other information I turn on my Motec display and then turn it off.


P.S.  Hm... just realized that this league permits driving from non cockpit camera as well. I always drive from cockpit only so this is what I do to improve my frame rate. I switch off my Motec display (tyre, brake temperature...) and switch on a minimal  HUD display for the revs and gear information.

I shall have a look at your replay as I was watching you online and you were jerking all over the place on the garage monitor so it wasn't easy to see properly. If i suddenly go quicker at brno you shall know why! :)

This i don't understand at all, I quite well understand trail braking etc (or at least i thought), but my interpretation is that as your braking your using the weight at the front of the car to spin the rear of the car around the corner slightly. how would having a lot of rear brake bias help this process? The only way I can see would be to lock the rear wheels but surely that would be super dangerous. Unless you mean bringing it foward to the front.

Foz

When you use the brakes, you use up a proportion of the grip available for each tyre. The traction circle principle says that a tyre has a limited amount of grip for both (plotted as a rough circle on a graph, hence the name), and the more you use for braking, the less is available for cornering. If you move the brake bias back and also trail brake, then the rear tyres are braking more and hence have less turning grip, the upshot of which being that the car has more oversteer/ less understeer than if the brake bias was more forwards.

hope that explains it.

Paul

Thanks Paul, I always have mine as far back as possible before rear brake locking starts happening, just for the reason of better braking. I've always concentrated more on the GPL style rear wheels slide with front wheels go round the corner thing, I take it that's the friction/traction circle too but in a slightly different way.

Fozzmeister

Interesting. Watched your replay Paul. It's not at all how I saw you drive in Q online. Maybe I didn't get a representative lap when i watched you in Q although you did set a reasonable time on the lap i watched.

Looking at the replay that's very much how I drive the lap, there was one place I noticed you take a bit of a different line, much tighter and across the curb so I might try that, but other than that it was very similar. I wonder if Pirellis are better at Brno on the F360s as I drive the Dunlop shod F360. I generally hate the Pirellis though as they feel more like they either have grip or they don't and nothing inbetween. When they let go they let go big.

I'd be very surprised if tyres explained it. I also think that line on its own doesn't tell the whole story. Carrying speed through the corners is the main thing once the line is right, and this is what I love about the 360 at Brno - the feeling of chucking it in, holding the car right on the limit into an apex and then getting on the power - luverley jubley!

Lol, I still remember how pleased I was with my first sub-two-minute lap around Brno in a GT car, scary people are getting close to that in NGTs.

Btw, which replay are you talking about Simon- 2.00.4 or the light braking one?

Light braking one (which is still 0.5 faster than my PB). I'll look at the other one now.

I like Brno too, although I do find the races turn into a bit of a procession with qualifying sorting out the race finishing order.

Hmm, watched your fast one now.

You're braking a lot later into most turns and on more of the tight corners you taking a large amount of inside curb, more than i'd dare to I reckon. I'm suprised that lap is as quick as it doesn't look like a great lap, but they are usually the ones that are I guess.

Actually, that's what I thought! I followed Paul for a few laps during the practice session at Brno and thought you were taking an odd line at turn 1. Coming over fairly sharpish to what looked like an early apex, locking the right front up each time. But I can see what you were doing now and, boy, did it work for you!

I'm going to have to look at this trail braking malarky. I've been trying to smooth things out lately by not jabbing at the throttle at the exit of corners and trail braking (though I didn't know it) into big fast corners (T1 @ Brno a prime example) but it seems it's something I could develop for most corners that would let me brake a little later and hopefully corner a little better. Back to the drawing board!

Could someone please explain in simple laymans terms what trail braking is, and the method of using it.

Cheers

Rob

Rob, shamelessly nicked from another website;  ;D


I *think* as you progress in GTR, you start to do it (if only a little) almost naturally as you explore the boundaries of the car/track. However, at some point, to get REALLY fast it has to become a concious effort to develop that skill as witnessed by Paul's amazing replays.

I'm sure someone who knows what they are talking about can add a bit more!

Here is quite a good explanation (http://virtualracersedge.com/trail_braking.htm), but in essence you use a little brake pressure to keep some weight transfer on the front wheels during turn in to aid front grip. I found myself doing it quite a lot at Castle Combe in the wet to prevent understeer. I actually find it much easier to do in real life because you can feel the weight moving about.

Thanks guys   ;D

Cheers

Rob

Thanks PaulW Paul968 and Shark for your expanations so far.

I always knew about the weight aspect of it to create the overstear. I've just done a few laps around BRNO with the brake pressure about 3 percent further back (about 55, I had it on 57 for the hills) and it feels like I can go a lot deeper into the corners without it locking up as I can turn in longer on the brakes.

Can I ask, what bias are you using? and do you think you are using slight locking of the rear tires to distabalise the car further into the corner or are you only concerned with weight and the distributing your braking to prevent the front wheels locking. Also when you are going up the hills (specifically the latter one), do you move your bias further forward every lap because if I try to turn and brake only the slightest bit there with the bias around 55 I spin.

Thanks

Fozzmeister


edited coz im a dozy bastard

Hi Fozz - I don't think you have totally understood what I said.

Moving the brake bias back is not done to lock the wheels and so get turn in. It is a more subtle effect. Before explaining, let me clarify something - the ability of a car to turn is directly related to the levels of grip at the front and the rear. More at the front than the back, then the car will want to turn more, ultimately into oversteer. More at the back than the front, the car will resist turning and will understeer.

So imagine you are entering a corner while still on the brakes. Using the brakes will rob both ends of the car of some lateral grip, as it is being used for braking rather than turning (the traction circle theory). Normally, the front does more of the braking than the back (bias greater than 50%) and so the front loses more lateral grip than the rear. This means that the car understeers more while on the brakes than off. Note that this does not mean the tyres are locked - far from it. Now imagine (for the sake of arguement) that the brake bias is set at 50%. This means (ignoring weight transfer, which in reality muddies the waters a bit) that the front tyres will lose just as much lateral grip as the rears when you brake. Therefore, braking will not make the car understeer at all (although it will have less overall grip). So, changing the bias back has improved the car's ability to turn while trail braking. In reality you don't go near 50% as the weight over the front under braking means the fronts need to do more work, but the principle is the same.

Is that any clearer?

My bias at Brno is 55, but as I said it is not that critical - My 2.02.0 lap had it at 60 with no trail braking at all and early braking points. I expect I could get a 2.00 at 60 if I tried.

I don't move the bias mid race, no, but I do use my right foot to keep some throttle on while braking - stops the rears locking up, especially later in the braking zones.

If I were you I wouldn't push the bias so far back - there is only a small amount to gain and a lot to lose if you can't handle it. In time you will gradually adjust to it and then it wont be a problem.

hope that helps

Paul

Thanks for your feedback Paul. Thought I had this driving bit pretty much sorted in understanding but it appears still got some way to go :-)

No way was I going to enter a race with less front bias than I can handle, although qualifying is the place to push yourself a bit. I just wanted to see the effect as it's a good idea for me see the extreme effect and that's easiest to do with more extreme values, and then you can decide how much you want to go in that direction :-) Besides I think our style is quite different anyway...

In the past I've been braking then coming off as the brakes heat up in a straight line as you'd expect, but I haven't really been coming off progressively (at least not conciously) any more as I've been turning, so the amount of turning while trail braking I could do was probably something around 10-25 degrees at most depending on corner and banking.

I've just done a few laps around Barca which is pretty much the course I know best of all (oh why did it have to rain :-)  ). Trying to back off the brake progressively as I start to enter the corner to the apex. Unfortunately I'm quite oversteary there on my setup and I have trouble feeling the first 1/4 or my brake pressure as the spring is not so springy there. Plotting new pedals soon :-)

Impressive how you use the throttle to stop the rears from locking, I always have tried to get max rear braking without any locking as its something I'm always scared of, I don't think I'll be trying that tactic for a long time tho, think I'd rather shift the bias every lap for the time being (I used to do this around BRNO up the hills, then switch it back on the main straight). It's a shame you can't map a button to do the shifting of bias and perhaps any other mid track twiddles, I'm not sure how realistic that would be tho, perhaps a little electronics project for me sometime in the future :-)

Thanks again.

Fozzmeister

Paul, how does this all work with a front wheel drive Diesel Passat?
Only, I want to borrow my girlfriend works car and find a field somewhere where I can wang it...


;)

You just better stick to the Elise Peewee!  :P Fast enough for ye! ;) :D

T