SimRacing.org.uk

All members welcome.

Practice: 20:15 (10 mins)
Qualifying: 20:25 (25 mins)
Race: 20:50 (48 laps = ~80 mins)

Track: Dijon-Prenois GP 
Cars allowed: Any TC65.
Time of Day Setting: 07:00
Start: STANDING
Pit Stops: You must make a minimum of one pit stop during which you must take on at least 1 litre of fuel or change your tyres. You cannot take your mandatory stop at the end of the pace lap, or with less than 1 lap to go.

Server: UKGTL Classics Cup
Password: see above (#post_event_password)

Notes:
(1) It's best if all drivers can make sure they are connected before the Qualifying session as drivers on track during qualifying will not see cars that join after they are on track until they go back to the garage.
(2) Please make sure you are fully aware of the SimRacing.org.ukRules (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3349.0).
(3) The season will be run using the UKGTL Skin Pack 1.6 which will need to be installed prior to racing; please get it from the downloads page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3358.msg54518#msg54518).
(4) The AI control should be turned off so that you have control of the car at all times, including pitting. Your player file should therefore read
Autopit="0"
Force Autopit Off="1" // Forces autopit always off
No AI Control="1" // AI never has control over car
(5) Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R;group=178;theme=5)

Cars allowed: Any TC.

65 or 76?  :)

Ta. Hang in there JR there are few more announcements coming :D

I can smell the italian burnt gas of an Alfa already

im not sure an endurance length in just TC cars is all that appealing personnally.  :-\  Cant we throw in a GT65 class too ?, even if its the slower end of the category, so no big engined monsters to blitz away the TC's. It would give us a more interesting spread of cars to choose from and race against.

Well thats a shame but I do hope you give it a try. I prefer driving the Falcon to any other car, and there are Alfa and Mini fans out there who feel the same way. So this one is aimed at me/them :) This will undoubtedly produce close racing with much variety, which is what its all about.

If we are wrong, its possible  ;), then the GTC (up next anyways) and 76 cars will prolly hog the remaining un-announced enduro schedule. Which would be a shame in my view.

fair enough, will hopefully still attend and hope to be proven wrong !  :)

I for one would love to get stuck in to a TC65 enduro, Mustang filled to the brim and lots of little 4 cylinders to hold up through the twisties, ah, heaven.   :D

Unfortunately I'm going to miss this since I'll be sunning myself working hard at a conference in Marrakesh.

Life sucks.  ;)

bugger, didnt realise this was next week  :o i thought the idea was to spread these enduros out through the season ?
Us blokes with tempestuous women need 'balance' you know  :surrender: its not easy to disapear for the entire evening when you have been at work all day and basically see 'err indoors just for dinner (which she cooked...rightly so  ;) )

I get a fair hand at doing all my racing, but usually by being able to be a little fair back. So my soothing words last night of 'dont worry, these long races are only every few weeks' is going to come back and kick me in the nuts  :wetfish:

c'mon, spread em out a bit ! How else am i gonna get a green pass to buy that race-seat ?! ;)

Crikey, stand your ground or perhaps cook dinner yourself next week MJ  ;). If they remain as well attended as last night, its "only" for two weeks, then two mid-season and two at end. Any more spread out and I fear people would lose track/interest.

eheh, i'll pass on your comments Ginsters  ;) then head off down the pub  ;D

....and come back and sleep in the garage  :-X

Just remember,Mark    -   you can always get a new wife but a missed Enduro is gone forever LOL

TC

I had the Mrs doing the pit timing  :angel: to tell me when to come in for fuel, anyone know if theres a motec add for GT Legends just in case she falls asleep  ;D

Anybody got a falcon setup? Incredibly enough, even though this is one of the original tracks, there are no falcon setups in the online folder.

Nice choice Syd  :) I've got a base Falcon setup that works really for me, will tweak it for Dijon and upload it (Dijon SGB Falcon). Hope it helps, give us some feedback if it doesn't.

Another Falcon driver here ;D. But I doubt you would want my setup :D

Don't be so sure.  ;D

Hm, SBG, if you did upload that setup, I can't find it.

Tis there now Syd. In Dijon as SBG FALCON and I was doing low 38's after a quick burst. Your Vette setup was actually quite nice, as "nice" as that thing gets, so I'd like a pop with yours if you have time JR.

Falcon and Dijon is definately more fun than GT40 and Spa  :-*

Hi  ;D any chance of fettling the server, right track wrong cars  ;D thank you.

See two of your setups (one with UKGTL as well), but both have ~63on after it, which indicates something went wrong :). Can't download either of them.

Mine is also uploaded: Falcon JR 2

PB of 1:36.5

Tried again, same results ??? O well, JR's appears faster anyways.

I got you setup Jeff. Did a low 39 after a few laps of practice. It's a great car, just a shame how tires go off after a few laps. A 3 pitstop race? :o

I should be along in the Lotus, and I'll do my best to keep any Alfa drivers at bay :P

done now...bit later than expected.....

I would like to take my beloved Mini out for a spin here, but the best I can do is mid 42's in it  :o  no way can it compete with anything else in class at this track, the long straight is just too much for the little fella.

So I will take a lotus, never driven one in anger before so may be a dodgy choice....but at least I can get round in under 1:40  :)

... uh oh... I was planning to bring out the Mini ... :-\

oh well, I will give a friendly wave when y'all blast past me in those American tanks on the straight  ;)

If I'm in this I'll be driving the Mini. ;)

Don't be scared of the long straight, the rest of Dijon is handling all the way. Long sweeping corners don't suit the American muscles. They will lose too much in the twitsies to make up on the straight, also because they have to brake so early.
Only option for the yanks is to have a good start and stay infront as long as possible. Just to get blasted away because of the pitstop which will bring us to the next milenium.

Pit entrance is rather dangerous. If you're not careful, those tires could end you race right there.

Whoa whoa...We're on Race 2 already  ???
I missed race one, and I'd have loved an Endurance Race at Spa  :-[

Time flies sometimes, I did see the new season threads but somehow still missed the beginning.


Oh well, at least I can drive my favorite car around an old favorite track. Haven't raced Dijon in ages, gonna be fun.

I feel almost ashamed for driving the Alfa, but hey, it's such a great car. I'll probably hit the wall on lap 30, trying to take the chicane in the middle, forgetting that this isn't Dijon Short we're racing  ;D

Be great to see some Minis and they should be competitive'ish (new word there). I have seen them do mid 37's and that should get you in the mix, I hope :)

Falcons, Minis, Alfas and I am sure Morten mentioned the Abarth ;). Good stuff.

THIS IS ALFFAAAAAAAAAaAA

anytime I put the ammount of opponents to 35 the load screen always CTD

I thought a specific skin was crashing the game, so I loaded each car class individually without any problems.

Anyone else having CTD issues with the TC 65 cars? I'm hoping this doesn't affect me on race day :(

I'm only getting the Alfa as a choice on line   ???  and i have to pay for it   ???  anyone got any ideas   ???

There's an unlock all cars cheat somewhere... if that isn't the problem then the server needs setting up again...

No its not that, got the unlock the lot sorted,Ti's not showing all the cars on line , just gone back on line after i reinstaled the cars now only the Abarth is the only choice   ??? its fine off line   :)  all cars and tracks unlocked

Server problem? ???

Ade have you purchased all the new cars/skins? To be honest doesn't sound like a server issue but its possible, anyone else suffering same ills? Will try when I get home later.

I tried to join the server, just to verify the situation. I can't get past the select team screen, and it looks like in the picture.

(http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/2451/selectof4.th.png) (http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=selectof4.png)

Isn't me then, Phew  :)

Very strange....but true

just tried joining too but no joy on car choices... ???

I have re-set the server and tried again with no problems......still dont know why though...hope its not going to be a prob for the race.

I actually blame GIZMO.......someone must have fed him after midnight.   :o

Nowt to do wi' me! :laugh:

Everything seems fine now. SbG and I were on with Falcons.

Done a bit more praccy in the Mini (following SBG's claims of 1:37's  :o). Spose JR could possibly get that, but for us mere mortals the best I can get is 1:39:3.........still a little undecided what to drive  :-\

Those times were done during a race at GBGTL. The gent involved is very fast but no freak ;). It feels like you are baiting me mate and, being a sucker for the underdog, I'll take the mini for a test run later :)

To even things out a bit it might be an idea to multiply tyre wear/fuel by two for future events? Give the ickle guy a chance to compete.

I think that will only rule some cars out. The yanktanks are in no class the fastest car (GT40 is no tank ;)), and it suffers immense fuelusages and tyrewear. Making that even more will just drop those cars out the grid.
In the TC65 the Cortina and Alfa will dominate (because Mini has big front tyrewear) and other cars are just too slow and also have too much wear and fuelusage.
In the GTC65 cars like the Elan will dominate, but also the GT40.
The '69 Vette is one of the slowest cars in the TC76 class, and will be useless with increased usage.

I can't see how the ickle guy (whatever that is :P) has a bigger chance to compete, as he will also have more wear and fuelusage.

IMO things are fine how they are now :)

Just wondering if anyone has taken the bait done any mini times yet round here?.....still cant make my mind up  :-\ ;D

All I know Falcons tires are gone after 10 laps or so. My times go from 1.38 to 1.40. Too bad I can't hire those f1 pit crews to change my tires in 5 seconds. I'd be doing 3 stops at least.  ;D

I'll do a few laps before the race, but I sucked at FWD cars, so you'll probably be faster in the Mini than me.

Clean lap in 1:40 something but in the race probalby a couple of secs slower...

Is this going to be a mini mash, if so I'm in  ;D  best time 1.38.223

Looks like I will take the little fella after all....be interesting to see if the better tyre ware and fuel can make up for its lack of speed/acceleration against the muscle men.

Hi all, I'm new here but I have raced against some of you before at GC, NG & GBGTL. I was hoping to join you guys for the Dijon race tonight, but I don't think I will be able to because I am presently DLing the skin pack & for some reason I get ridiculously slow DL speeds at Filefront & there is no way I will have the DL finished in time.

So have fun guys, & maybe I will be able to race with you next week.

Cheers
Geoffers

Hi Geoffers.

Hope you make it in time. Doesn't matter if you join 1 minute before the race :)

Hi Ruskus

No chance of making tonight, only DLed 45mb in the last 20mins. Why is it so sloooooooow. Never have DL speed probs anywhere else, always the same at Filefront. Oh well, just have to be patient I suppose.

 :cursing: :cursing: :censored: :cursing: :cursing: :cursing:
Didn't even finish the 1st lap!!!!!!!!!!!

Got wiped out by Sandor's Alfa, hit the wall and destroyed the engine!!!!

Got disco'd as i exited the server though so it probably doesn't make much difference... I'm still  :censored: annoyed though!

Not your fault Sandor, I was just looking forward to this race!

That's odd, I get 700kb/Sec from Filefront ususally.
Maybe it's a port forwarding issue with their servers?

Same here. I think it's cause their servers are in the US.

Sorry Tibs,

Tried to keep the car in a straight line but didn't succeeded  :'(

for the rest it was a nice race but my pitstop was way too long and costed me a complete lap ....
Have to do this different next time.

Was very pleased with doing a PB in qually. After I did my qually lap I tested starting with 120L, and I was surprised to be only 0.8s slower than qually pace.

So I started with 120L, which didn't give me a very good start and it was close at T1. Still I managed to keep 1st place and I could keep it there for my whole first stint. Mike was following me for the first stint, but I could increase the gap.
For 20 laps my fuelindicator showed FULL, so I was thinking I didn't need to fuel anyway. But at lap 20 it started to drop massively, and by lap 25 it showed 2/3's.
So I filled it up to 85L and changed all tyres, as my rear left had a wear of 39  :o.

PRibeiro was on his very late stop strategy again and I was gaining 1,5s a lap on him. I finished with way too much fuel 1/3 tank :P.

Well done Dave the ballerina (spinner ;)) on 5th  ;D

Results and Replay available

Would you believe after 1h 45m it got to 188mb & discoed from the server. AHHHHHH (tearing hair out)

Will try on the PC at work tomorrow, see if that makes a difference.

Shame that Geoffers, look forward to racing you again :). Hope you can make next week.

Best GTL race I've had here that :)

Great first half battle with Syd. So tricky to find a way past even though I was little quicker, think his tyres were going? Squeaked ahead just before I thought about pitting. Major brain malfunction as I attempted to pit, didn't slow down quick enough and was heading towards the tyre wall so had to abort and was swamped by three cars on straight. Bit edgy when I came in next lap, sorry about sliding around everywhere Dave but I was tad nervous after the feck up ;) That pit entry is a shocker.

Couple of dull laps after pitting, then Mike began to catch me at some rate of knots. Unfortunately, when he caught me he was surprised by my lack of speed. Got a frightfull clattering, but he waited for me and remained behind me for a bit, shamefaced no doubt. So no worries and thx for waiting, I'm sure I'll return the favour soon. That incident meant Dave was now able to catch me and we had a brilliant five or so laps as I tried to hold him off. My smile was as wide as my Falcon everytime we passed through final corner, brilliant fun. Could almost hear your brain working and congrats on finding a way past  :)

Thx to all for the great turnout and extremely sensible driving into T1 and around first lap. Top drawer :). Congrats to JR and rest of podium. Look forward to seeing you all next week and looks like more GTL enduros will come :)

After Tuesday's disasterous non-race and last week's frustrationfest at Spa I needed a good race and by  herring I got one!

Lobby wouldn't start on first attempt and I feared the worst but got into the practice server on my second try and then straight in for the race after quitting GTL to join the Team Speak channel. Qualified 8th with what I thought was a pretty good lap, and started okay, squeeked past PR before starting a series of stupid spins which put me well down the field. Had a few good fights along the way but it was becoming rather frustrating that I couldn't seem to keep the car pointing in the right direction for more than a few laps at a time.

Somehow got to half distance without actually hitting anything solid, and with fresh tyres the car handled better and I was a able to start making progress up the field as others pitted. With the car feeling better and the tyres holding up better as a result I started making big inroads into the gap to SbG's Falcon ahead and after a few laps I was all over him in the twisties, but of course he was disappearing back up the road each time we got to the main straight.

Each lap I concentrated on applying maximum pressure where I could and gradually the gap as we reached the first corner was coming down. After getting by first on the outside and then the inside of the final corner before getting repassed down the straight, I finally managed to get by a few corners before the end of the lap and had enough of a gap to use the Cortina's ability to brake much, much later than the Falcon for turn 1 to ensure the pass stuck.

Had to keep the pace up after that to make sure Ginsters couldn't catch me again and found myself closing in on MC Hammer's Mustank, which he was hurling about with gay abandon and stripping all the rubber off the tyres. After not very long he ran wide out of the final corner and that left me close enough going into turn 1 to slot up the inside and muscle through with my nimble steed, to take a totallly unexpected and very satisting 5th place. 8)

Even more of a surprise was that I picked up 3rd fastest race lap - no idea where that came from! Probably off the slipstream of one of those big things. :D

Firstly Sorry to Dave for spinning in front of you, hope you didn't get any damage. And sorry for going slightly wide with someone in a red Alfa on my outside.

Secondly I'm sorry for those few which didn't finish. Would've been nice to maybe have someone to race.

i'm not just slow, but when I'm driving by myself there's nothing to really push me. Did close up to someone which had lapped me by some laps, but I finally thought I could do some fighting, but then he went to the pit. The second half of the race I didn't care much, so I took some chances and spun about every lap. Nice fun race, but with noone in my 'class', that really takes much fun from it.

I didn't even take the car I felt most confident in, I took one with great engine sounds just to try and get better at driving this type of cars. Not a bad choice, but with too little practice, the setup was far from ideal.

Looking foreward to the next endurance GTL race :)

How can those two guys be on unknown tires, in the standings?

Quite a quiet race for me, quali'd in 4th which was much better than expected.

Not much happened in the race, other than every man and their dog cutting turn 2 :P I dropped to 5th early on but was up to 4th when Dan started having issues with the tail-happy Falcon.  Pitted early when I started getting held up by yet another Falcon, but the stop went as badly as taking 1L of fuel could!  Stopped in pits, nothing.  Forward/reverse a couple of times finally sorted it but I wish pitstops were better in GTL!  Came out 10th roughly, eventually after many laps I ended up in 2nd, which I was suprised about as I was expecting more people opting not to change tyres.

Grats to JR for the dominant win, and for Dave coming home 5th :)  can't say I enjoyed that one as much as Spa, I think if I wasn't listening to music all race I'd have fallen asleep at some point!

cos I didnt know what tyres they were on when i imported the results.....but they would be the standard type for that vehicle.

good race indeed that one. lost a few places in the early stages due to being a little too cautious and then quite a few more after running into the back of a very very erratic falcon sorry..seen replay now...it was a mustang... that slammed it's anchors on at a corner apex, just as i was hitting the gas :o....sorry for the tap (if you felt it) whoever it was...took me a bit by suprise.

car felt a little strange for a lap or two after that and i thought seriously about pitting very early...but then i put a decent lap time in so decided to try and stick to my planned strategy...the car seemed to get better and better as the tyres wore and i was matching my best times. got back to 13th place before folk started pitting, car was feeling really good so I decided to stay out for as long as my times were decent...eventually pitted from 6th on lap 32 ....small fuel top up...new front tyres only, told the crew not to spend 95 seconds replacing a busted suspension and got away after just 38 secs stop ;D....rejoined in 10th and the car still felt good, lapping within 10ths of my best times. Caught up with Phill in 5th place and followed him round for a few laps till he pitted very late for tyres....he must have had a fairly long stop though as I got round the lap and ahead of him by 9 seconds putting me up to 9th.  Just holding station then till the end.

Pretty pleased with the result, started 13th. A thank you to everyone that convinced me to take the mini...it was fun and was a lot more competetive than I imagined.

Grats to Jeff and the podiums.

Tough race that! I was outfoxed by Zacari's strategy.

I was surprised the Mini could only take 50 litres in the tank, and I needed 55! So I planned on doing 2 equal stints with 30 litres at a time and fresh fronts at the stop.

Spent the last 20 laps thinking "Zacari's gotta pit soon, soon, soon" not realising he had ALREADY pitted before me!

No catching Jeff, but had a good chase on with Mike until he missed his braking and I got past and stayed there. Had a few laps where I was 0.7 off my pace, and finished about 4 seconds behind Zacari, so if it wasnt for those lapses it might have been an interesting last lap :D

I was also pleasantly surprised of the way the Mini works around here, with long gears that straight is not as much of a disadvatage as it looked like it should be. Grats to everyone - good racing.

Busted my left headlight but luckily nothing else. :D

No problem, I've calmed down a bit now. :)

Sorry Will 16v, you got involved in my unfortunate major lag - decided to quit then.  :oops:

I've been having ISP problems through out this year so I was very pleased to be able to drive for about 1 3/4 hrs.  Qualification went well qualified 14th, the start and first lap went well 11th I think.   ;D  On the second lap I had a tap and went off, rejoined I think in 17th.  Had a battle with a blue Alfa and we were catching Alex and then I took too much left hand kerb on the 2nd of the sharp left handers and rode along on 2 wheels before completing the roll.  :-[  After that I drove on and eventually I think caught up with the Alfa.  About half distance I started to get the odd touch of lag.

Pit stop went OK and I rejoined in 11th shortly after that minor lag came back and went until it eventually returned  big time resulting in the contact with Will 16v.  :'(

Bill

Ah, That was me, Bill.

If you get points for a roll i would have given a 10+ .  ;D
We had a nice battle indeed.

sandor

Well, I knew it, should have stayed in the Alfa  ;D

That barge felt okay for about four or five laps, then it didn't want to turn anymore, and I had to rear wheel steer it  :D :D

Fun for a bit, but it there was a price to pay, as after 40 laps or so I was doing +3,5 to +4 seconds of my best lap in race, even though I changed tires at lap 25. I think I might have benefitted from being a bit easier on the tires, but I never was any good at that. And isn't Dijon about having just a bit of wheelspin at almost all times  :D

I've done countless laps in the Alfa around the short version of Dijon, and I think old habits cost me a few corners every now and then, since this barge is so slow to react.

Really sorry about the punt ginsters, I'd like to blame the heavy weight of the big car, but I really can't since the problem is between the seat and the steering wheel, as always.

Towards the end I tried to keep Dave stuck behind me, but I was having serious problems keeping the front end pointing forward *and* staying on track, especially in the last turn. Once he got ahead into T1, there was no taking that position back.


Interesting race, even if it mostly confirmed I either have to learn tire conservation, or stay out of the yanktanks. Got a bit lonely at times, with something like +5 and -35 on the gap sign for a large part of the race.

No worries Mike. Sliding and rear wheel steering, you were a sight to behold  :)

Personnally, I can't wait to use the Falcon again.

The Mustang felt good - really good - for about 10 laps, then after the tires went, it was all downhill from there really.
Hope i did'nt get in anyones way to much, but the tyres were absolutley cooked!
Should have taken the Mini!

Will I followed you for a number of laps and you kept me royally entertained trying to keep that thing in a straight line LOL


Oilseal

One thing I've found which helps prevent disco's:before joining the server,

• close the internet connection,
• clear the memory on the modem
• Unplug the modem from the phone line and leave it disconnected for around 30 seconds
• wait for the modem to re-initialise the ADSL line

That helps to avoid it disconnecting. I didn't do that yesterday and it disconnected as I left the server. :-\

That's bizzare that you would have to do that. Are you running a Gateway Modem, or are you running a Modem + Router combo?

You shouldn't unplug the modem from the phone line, but moreso the power - as that will be a better reboot for the system.

If your modem has a router built into it, you may want to look into it's port forwarding rules.

It's an ADSL USB modem that plugs straight into the back of the PC, and gets its power from the USB port. No Router. :-\

Well guys, I got the skin pack DLed at work today no problem, have installed it in my PC, so all set for next week at Zandvoort67.

Geoffers

I believe the USB modem connection is a bit poo, does it not have  ethernet connection?

Hi Geoffers, just a word of advice, after you install the skin pack check it hasn't written two game data files in the GTL file coz i had problems with the first skin test race,i downloaded the skin pack and used auto install and it made two game data files, OK in practice but as soon as a driver with a new skin entered the game it crashed   >:(  i tried to get back in the game but on entry all the drivers names flashed up over and over  :(  i sorted it by (if it has written two data files) just drag and drop the new one  into the original game data file and overwrite the old one. just in case! happend to me and i was gutted. good luck see you in the legends.. ;D

I have absolutely no idea how that could happen using the installer  ???.....I never had the prob when installing it and no reports of anythng strange like that from the lads that helped me test it.

Anyone else had any problems with installing the skin pack? I will check any error reports out and report back.

What in the heck!? A USB Modem!? Man if possbile get your self a good ol' fashioned Ethernet modem.

Ade, can you be very, very specific about what rogue files were written where? The installer simply unpacks its contents like a self-extracting Zip; unless you point it to the wrong install directory there's practically nothing which can go wrong, and there were no extraneous files.

I checked before the pack was released by installing to somewhere other than a GTL install, and I've just done it again; the only files outside of a UKGTL_* directory are the 250SWB files, the README and the uninstaller - ditto for the track installer - so if anything else appeared it wasn't the UKGTL installer which put it there!.

It came with the Tiscali Broadband. :-\ A decent ADSL Router is on the list though. :)

Hi Dave, may just be me  :wacko: i used the installer for the skin pack and got some laps in before the skin test race and it was fine then in race practice it was OK until i think Wiltshire Tony turned up in his new Pantera and the game crashed, as i said earlier tried to get back in and everyones name just flashed up  ???  big panic and a new install and at end of race tried to get in before everyone left, i think Mr Oily and Wiltshire Tony where still in, same results names flashing up over and over. Checked the GTL file and it had written the other game data file in user data i think  ??? put it in the original file and every thing was fine for the Spa race  :D so i don't know what i did wrong just wouldn't want it to happen to any one else  :( sorry to cause a fuss .  thanks Ade .

If there's a problem with the pack or installer we need to know about it. It's much more likely that you've just installed it wrong somehow, but without specifics it's impossible to help.

What file, in what directory? Remember, I can't see your screen... :P


What "other game data file" and precisely what directory do you mean by "user data"?


Which "original file" and where did you put it. Be precise. A fresh GTL install has 3 directories and 8 files under UserData, and nearly 1500 files in 150 folders inside GameData.

If I were a betting man I'd say that when you installed the skin pack you put it somewhere other than the default location, which is the base directory where GTL was installed, eg. c:\Program Files\GTL.

Hi Dave had the same problem tonight on the server for Zandvoort so i did a full install of GTL and installed the track pack and skin pack and everthing went into the right places. i think what i did last time in my hast no blind panic to install everything before the race started i used control panel add/remove program to uninstall it and i didn't realise it leaves a GTL folder with your player data and such so i think thats when it all went wrong. Thanks for the help  :thumbup1: