SimRacing.org.uk

UKGPL Season 15 - Pre-season test - 66 mod - Watkins Glen

For the regulars in the historic division, please use assigned chassis below. For anybody else who would like to race, use the general guidelines also posted below. Since this is the last test before the season starts, I'd like to invite all those that applied for Historic division to take part, so that we can best evaluate the driver/chassis combos.

Pre-Season Test - Season 15 this Sunday at 9:00 p.m. London UK time (GMT).

Please be in IGOR UKGPL chatroom by 8:55 p.m.
(You will need to set up a channel called #ukgpl if you haven't already done so)
IGOR and Race passwords: see above

Server 3.ukgpl
IP address  87.194.135.42

Race date = 23-03-2008
Track = Watkins Glen 1967 Int
Variant = 66mod
Damage Model = Intermediate
Qually time = 30 minutes.
Race length = Short (17 laps)


Password: see above (#post_event_password)
(2) Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R;group=64;theme=6)

Chassis allocation:

Mclaren M2B Ford	Hristo Itchov, Lorenzo Galuzzi
T1F Eagle Climax	Neil Stratton
Brabham BT11 2.5lt	Kruger Enge
Lotus 33 BRM	Mike Beattie, Oliver Rakonjac
T1G Eagle Weslake	David Bryant, Remy Roesz
BRM P83	John Roberts
Ferrari 246	Ken Murray, Paul Skingley
Lotus 43 BRM	Syd Drake, Clive Loynes
Brabham BT11 BRM	Clive Gardner
BRM P261	Derek Howe
Honda RA273	Chris Bull, Amir Kamal
Brabham BT11 2.7lt	Bernie Darwin
Cooper T81	Artur le Marquand, Robert Burton
Brabham BT19	Phil Thornton
Ferrari 312	Terry Worth, Tim Robey

General restrictions for the rest:

Mclaren M2B Ford	-60 and below
T1F Eagle Climax, Lotus 33 Climax, T1G Eagle Weslake	-50 to -59
Brabham BT11 2.5lt , Lotus 33 BRM, BRM P83	-40 to -49
Ferrari 246, Lotus 43 BRM, Brabham BT11 BRM	-30 to -39
BRM P261, Honda RA273, Brabham BT11 2.7lt	-20 to -29
Cooper T81	0 to -19
Brabham BT19, Ferrari 312	above 0

Syd - I think the race date should be tommorrow.....:)

Hehe, at least it was correct in the thread title.

I am obviously wasting my time.

One CTD in qually and then, after fighting the beast to second on the grid it crashed again as I approached T1; which lets face it isn't far at Watkins Glen!

I wonder if I just don't have enough ram?  Since you insist on running this server on 3/84, 3/384 I just wonder if my pc just can't cope with knowing where every bloody car on the track is.

I have 1Gb of ram.  What does evetyone else run?

 (http://img242.imagevenue.com/loc393/th_09401_ukgpl66_test6_23_03_08_122_393lo.JPG) (http://img242.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=09401_ukgpl66_test6_23_03_08_122_393lo.JPG)

We will probably use 3/84 3/132 settings for the races. We should have used that tonight, but I didn't see Phil's instructions on time.

I doubt it's the amount of RAM Clive - I ran fine with 512MB, and am OK after my upgrade 1GB too. If you're not having problems in other programs or general system instability (which would suggest faulty RAM), I'd suspect video drivers are the most likely culprit, although gawd knows there are many other possibilities. Have you tried OpenGL instead of D3D?

I have 1Gb too Clive.  No probs tonight.  I've asked Syd and the other mods to use the settings I've published here (https://www.ukgpl.com/index.php/moderating/igor).  Hopefully that will help. 

Look no further than your soundcard Clive... I have less RAM (756) but have seldomly had crashes - not counting those moments when I had a very bad connection.

As for the race, it was a waste of time - I'm fed up with "fun race" starts :thumbdown:

Can we make sure, before the season starts, to have loose grids installed on all tracks where we will run 66 mod?

It's an imperative we have loose grids regardless of mods. This has been a constant niggle in my time with UKGPL. When Steve Smith used to manage the server he promised me no track would ever be installed without a loose grid.

Back to tonight I got another fortunate tow to claim pole and even managed a good start while holding my look left button to see the flag man!

I fought with Syd for 2 and a bit laps. I maybe should have just sat on his tail and waited to pull off  a move at the hairpin on the final lap. Instead I was going crazy trying to get ahead and stay ahead. I passed him at the hairpin and then tried to make the little 246 as wide as I could down the straight towards The Loop. This caused Syd to run off the track but he was alongside me when he spun on the grass and sent me off the other side. Syd was lucky to regain the track without hitting anything while I careered back across the track and lost a wheel when I hit the barrier. After a reset I was surprised only a few cars had gone through, I think a few had retired aready. Anyway I soldiered on and eventually chased Akamal down to take 2nd.

Watching the replay I can see Paul went of with a warp contact on the outside of me at Big Bend. That's maybe one of the problems with the 66's. The close racing produces warp contacts even with the optimised collision boxes. Possibly the server settings didn't help.

When I have tried Open GL the quality of graphics has always been shite.  Is there something else that I have to do besides just selecting it in the game/GEM?

This is my core.ini settings:

[ Int Profile Values ]
value0 = OpenGL:TossHighestMip:0             ; do not change
value1 = OpenGL:MipFiltering:0                  ; do not change
value2 = OpenGL:MirrorsEvery:0                  ; do not change
value3 = Direct3D7:D3DDevice:0
value4 = Direct3D7:TossHighestMip:0
value5 = Direct3D7:TrilinearFiltering:0
value6 = Direct3D7:DoubleMirrorResWidth:0
value7 = Direct3D7:DoubleMirrorResHeight:0
value8 = Direct3D7:DirectMirrorRendering:0
value9 = Direct3D7:DisableZBuffer:0
value10 = Direct3D7:TransparentMipsDrawOrder:0
value11 = Direct3D7:TrilinearFiltering:1
value12 = Direct3D7:AnisotropicFiltering:0
value13 = Direct3D7:LODBias:-50

[ OpenGL ]
TossHighestMip = 0
MipFiltering = 4
MirrorsEvery = 2

[ Direct3D7 ]
D3DDevice = 0
TossHighestMip = 0
DoubleMirrorResWidth = 0
DoubleMirrorResHeight = 0
DirectMirrorRendering = 0
DisableZBuffer = 0
AlphaThreshold = 1
TransparentMipsDrawOrder = 1
TrilinearFiltering = 1
AnisotropicFiltering = 16
LODBias = -50

I can't remember doing anything else special for OGL.

I remember there were a few settings in the nvidia control panel you had to change and then ogl looked pretty close to d3d.

Yes, just remembered if you have lines in the sky you need to disable "texture conformant clamp" in Nvidia control panel.

This is from the GPL FAQ:

When using OpenGL, there are lines in the sky
This problem is only noticed running GPL with OpenGL
1- With an nVidia card, it’s fixed by adjusting the graphics card settings in Control Panel > Display > Settings > Advanced > Disable conformant texture clamp.
2 - For ATI cards, see the post at HERE for instructions for the fix, thanks to Ken.

GPL is great, the people who have created what it is today are all amazing and I have already said that this is what pc were made for.....

But this stick, string and sticky tape business is getting to me big time!!!!!!!!!

I have only ever played GPL so tell me, do the other sims have all this bother? 

I have two installs of GPL, one is years old and the other is recent using the install thingy.  The core.ini that goes with the old one looks much like Ken's but has no mention of OpenGL at all.  The new one has different definitions of the values under [ Int Profile Values ]

Just for the hell of it I ran the new install on OGL and yes I have the lines in the sky.  Also as I crossed the line on-board with Jim Clark the bloody thing crashed to desktop.  So much for OGL.

I have been using the original install for the UKGPL races.  Mainly because I have regrooved them (Dave Wilkinson) in years gone bye and know where I am by the dirty marks on the road.  The new install has the pretty tracks but I don't know where to brake.

There were two differences between the old core.ini and Ken's.  One was that AnisotropicFiltering was 8 on mine as opposed to 16 on Ken's.
The other was the DirectMirrorRendering was set to 1, whereas Ken's is 0.  I have changed both of these but feel that the mirror related might be the more significant.

I run 67s with no mirror detail except cars but found when I first tried the 65 mod that I had to lobb all the crap into the mirrors to stop the game crashing.  I have run all the other mods in the same way.  It is a shame really because you need the mirrors more in 66 because the close raceing and slipstreaming means that you need to see more than ever but all you usually get a view of are bits of your own car.

So on the graphics side what do you set for mirror textures and detail level in 66 mod and is this any good?

Ah!  Just found out that I haven't a clue on how to insert or attach an image on this forum.

Clive, if you are getting CTD's crossing the s/f line it is definitely a graphics driver issue. The recent 163 series of nVidia drivers has numerous reports at RSC about CTD's near the pits. Most people went back to 162.xx drivers but some have reported the most recent 169's are OK. Some people still use really old drivers like 84.43's. If GPL is the only sim you drive then this is probably no detriment, there is nothing in the new drivers that benefits GPL.

http://forum.racesimcentral.com/showthread.php?t=312819

Also you mention having too much of your car visible in the mirrors. This is not something that is configurable in the GPL graphics menu. You either have files in the car folder that show your car or you have an alternative set that don't. When it shows your car it is merely a picture painted on the mirror, it is not a realtime mirror image of what is happening in game, although the action you can just see past this is real time obviously. Personally my driving view is so far forward I can't see these mirrors but I use the addons that give a virtual mirror at the top of the screen. I think the 66 Mod had the car shown in the mirrors in the standard install but see this thread for a set of files to remove them.

http://forum.racesimcentral.com/showthread.php?t=307267

...going back to the race, I banged wheels with someone off the line (punting them off), then got involved in the start line crash. Reset, went round again (banging wheels with Derek, sending him off too at the Loop), tried to avoid more piled up cars at the start-line, missed 'em all and ended up embedded in a fence. Another reset, and orf I go.....to benefit massively from other folks issues. Looked like I might've had a race with Phil, but he fell off before I could close, the rotter. That left me 4th chasing a Ferrari-shod Ken, who I'd no chance of catching.

Cooperluck?

I hope we can indeed sort out the "close grid" issue as it seems to me to make starts a little bit of a lottery. I find that if you try and make a very gentle start, someone will rear end you and if you go for a quick start you could be the rear ender yourself!! To try and get the 66's off the grid at the exact same pace as the cars around you (given the huge difference in engine size etc) is just impossible. At least with the staggered grid there is some room for evasive action.

Sorry Kruger, I got a surprisingly good start with the baby Brabham, but was a little distracted by the movement of Steve Foster ( I think) on my left and was along side your rear wheel sooner than I expected to be. Not sure from my replay if it was direct or warp contact, but it looked like I may have caused your sharp left turn which kicked off a domino effect down through the grid.
I ended up stranded and was a good 5 secs behind the whole field when I got going, made my way up to about 7th or 8th and duelled with Bernie for a lap or two...got past only to find that Bernie has a taste fetish Brabham wheels.  After extracating myself from the warm embrace of the fencing and ditch I set off again passed a couple of cars and caught Mr Beattie diced with him for a couple of laps getting alongside but not able to make it stick, until I followed him into The Loop where he very gracefully lost the rear end and appeared to be making for the infield...so I went wide, only to find that he had in fact conned me and was intending to park it out by the hay bales along with me and my car.
4 laps to go and already 3 big offs, decided to call it quits.."Hello Quits" and withdrew from the server.

Replay and Results here (http://www.neurology-crew.com/gplserver)

Hi Clive to run  Open GL you will need to use something called GLOveride. You can get it here (http://www.humus.ca/index.php?page=Cool)

Just copy the opengl32.ini and opengl32.dll into your gpl folder. Edit the ini file making sure that the fix clamp is set to 1 and then you can run Open GL  nicely.

Looks very nice and I think the anti aliasing works a lot better too.

Please give it a try :)

I was having lots of driver version/ctd issues with d3d. In open Gl I am running the latest drivers fine :)

Hope that helps

Bully.

As for bandwidth hopefully all the mods are aware of how to make this setting now. It should be set to 3/84 3/132 from now on! :)

I thought had installed all the loose grids but I mustv missed wat glen. I'll get onto it now. :D

Bully.

Thanks Chris, I'll have a look tonight.

For now I have installed the 162.xx nVidia drivers.  The problem is finding a server with enough people in it.  I only seem to suffer when there are a lot of drivers.  Keeping them in there is a problem as well.  I joined a Mybroga Brands last night because there were 8 in it but by the time we crossed the finish line ther were only two of us left so not much of a test. >:(

Errr....  Do what?

Is that another .ini file?

Ta

Yes, it is the ini file that comes with the GLOveride that Chris mentions. You only need to use that fix if you don't have the "conformant texture clamp" setting in your driver control panel. That should fix the lines in the sky without needing to use the GLOveride. I found that GLOveride fix after some searching on the net because my ATI card does not have that setting. I think there has been some rare reports of the "conformant texture clamp" setting not having any effect on some nVidia cards but I'd try it first.

Do you know what drivers you were on before changing to the 162's. If it was the 163 series than I'm 100% confident your problems will be solved. Having said that I've just looked back through some of your posts at the BREAST forum and you were on 77.77's at one point!

Yep, was still on the 77.77

Hi clive,
           Yeah thats another ini! You should get 2 files when you download GLOveride (btw I have an nvidia card with the conformant texture clamp option, but this does not work)

opengl32.dll

&

opengl32.ini

Copy both those suckers into your GPL folder (sierra/gpl)

You can open opengl32.ini in notepad or some such editor and just make sure the fix clamp line is set to 1 like so:

FixClamp = 1

I also set my Anti Aliasing in here, its the second parameter and I set it to 8 like so:

ForceMSAAMode = 8

A couple of other things you may need are the WiHerr open GL Rasterrizer which is installed from the GPLPS installer. Also you will need to make sure the following is in your CORE.INI

[ Int Profile Values ]
value0 = OpenGL:TossHighestMip:0      ; Do not change; field specification
value1 = OpenGL:MipFiltering:0      ; Do not change; field specification
value2 = OpenGL:MirrorsEvery:0      ; Do not change; field specification

[ OpenGL ]
TossHighestMip = 0      ; Controls textures
      ; 0 = Don't toss *
      ; 1 = Toss. This will use only 25% of texture memory.
      ;     Use if frame rates are low or your graphics 
      ;     card has 8 MB or less.

MipFiltering = 4      ; Mip filtering
      ; In general, the lower numbers should be faster, with
      ; poorer image quality.
      ; 0 = no filtering, no mipmapping
      ; 1 = no filtering, with mipmapping
      ; 2 = bi-linear filtering, no mipmapping
      ; 3 = bi-linear filtering, with mipmapping
              ; 4 = tri-linear filtering

MirrorsEvery = 1      ; Mirror refresh rate in frames 4 default
      ; This parameter is supplied to prevent a performance
      ; hit in the in car view. Set a low as possible without
      ; affecting frame rate. The effect is that each frame
      ; only a part of the mirrors is drawn.
      ; Value range is 1 - 8

Then finally you just need to tell GPL to use open GL you can do this in the in game options or use GEM+ to set it before you launch GPL.

I really recommend it over d3d now I have been using it a while :)

Hope that helps,

Bully.

Yes, some report that setting doesn't work for them. Is your card one of the latest generation Chris?

I tried Open GL and the quality of graphics has improved but the screen pauses at 1sec intervals was back again.

I hadn't done any big shutdown of other progs but DirectX was still okwhen I switched back.  Does OpenGL use more ram?  It looked as though it did when I ran task manager.

Looks like all my money is on the 162 driver.

Whether you get an improvement with OGL depends on where your system weak point is. Generally OGL shifts gfx load away from your cpu and on to your gpu (gfx card), compared to D3D which by comparison uses more cpu than gpu. So I used to find on my old 1 Gig processor I needed to run OGL all the time but since upgrading I can use either for most car/track combos. I did find I needed OGL for Montjuich to run smoothly.

Strangely I've found the 66 Mod cars run better on D3D for me too.

Hi Ken, I have a 8800GTX but I have found this same problem with every nvidia card I have had. Before I had a 7900 Ultra and before that 2x6600GT SLI'd.

Yes, computers are strange beasts. That always worked for me until I got my ATI card, which doesn't have the setting. My previous cards have been GF6600GT, GF4ti4400 and GF3ti500. Sounds like yours have all been PCI whereas I'm still on AGP. I don't know if that makes a difference?