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UKGTR => UKGTR Races => Topic started by: Simon Gymer on August 03, 2005, 10:55:05 PM +0100



Title: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: Simon Gymer on August 03, 2005, 10:55:05 PM +0100
GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5 at Donington Park

Date: Wednesday 10th August

Practice 1: 8:45pm (15 mins)
Qual 2: 9:00pm (15 mins)
Warmup: 9:15pm (2 mins)
Race: 9:17pm (30 mins)

Cars allowed: Any GT car or Corvette or Viper G2. (Seat Toledo is allowed but will not score points.)

Notes:
(1) Please try to arrive 15 minutes early during Practice 1.
(2) Server Password has been emailed to those registered racers for each championship. Please contact a member of the admin team to get the password if you are registered and have forgotten or not received the password. It will not be given out in the GTR chatroom as that is a public place. The password wont change for the season unless there are security concerns.
(3) See  UKGTR Season 1 Info (http://www.ukgtr.org/series.php?series=103) for general Season 1 info.
(4) Please make sure you are fully aware of the UKGTR Rules (http://www.ukgtr.org/rules.php)


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: FlyBri on August 08, 2005, 01:10:56 PM +0100
i'm in, going to be a tough race, donnington is a sh1t  ;D


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: fozzmeister on August 08, 2005, 01:12:10 PM +0100
i'm in, going to be a tough race, donnington is a sh1t  ;D

No its just hard to be fast :-)


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: Aagramn on August 08, 2005, 10:04:36 PM +0100
Hated Doni when I first started playing the game, but it's one of my favorites since I finally worked out how to drive it. Has a nice flow to it, and it's easy to stay on the track at most corners if I make a mistake.

Could really do with a finish this time. 2 retirements and one CTD out of 4 races so far, and throttle problems at the one race where I did make it to the end. Good news is my insulation tape pedal fix is looking good so far.  :)


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: [ZiP]Tyf on August 08, 2005, 10:51:20 PM +0100
What were your pedal problems A.? And how did you fix those? :)

T


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: Luis Branco on August 09, 2005, 11:01:52 AM +0100
Well, this is the last race for me before September  :( as I'm going on a well deserved holidays ;D
I'll miss Spa and Anders and quite probably Oschers as well. It's a real shame as I think I could pull some nice points for the team (PB: Spa---2:12 / Anders---1:25 / Oschers---1:22).
Perhaps I still can take part in Oschers (race pace around 1:23 / 1:24), but it will be very difficult to get home, unpack and still race, I guess.
I'll come back for Estoril for sure.

Now if you just let me go with a victory at Doni... ;D


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: Simon Gymer on August 09, 2005, 12:05:37 PM +0100
Let's hope you have a good Donington race as well as a good holiday.
Going anywhere nice?


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: Luis Branco on August 09, 2005, 04:45:49 PM +0100
Going to Algarve for 2 weeks. We'll stay near Vilamoura at some 300 meters from the beach.
After our return we're planning to go to Eurodisney (after mid September) for 4 days which I bet will fulfill the dream of my little 4 year soon :D


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: Aagramn on August 09, 2005, 11:09:33 PM +0100
Have a good holiday Luis.


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: Bombdogs on August 10, 2005, 05:16:10 PM +0100
im in, looking forward to this one, one of my favourite tracks. you watch, i'll crash on the warm-up lap now....

PMF


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: Paul968 on August 10, 2005, 05:39:40 PM +0100
Quote
you watch, i'll crash on the warm-up lap now....
Ouch - That hurts!  :-[


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: David M on August 10, 2005, 09:32:49 PM +0100
I spun off the startline starting warmup lap, ultimate idiot #1 already.

Had a crappy race that culminated in me pushing someone into the gravel at redgate - after a strings of other incidents.

All totally unacceptable and to those whose races I undoubtedly ruined, an apology :(

I quit the race before I could ruin anyone elses.

Sorry guys,
David


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: Truetom on August 10, 2005, 09:33:19 PM +0100
Managed to get my comp freeze out after a few turns - had to reset manualy, everything just f...king froze! Hope I wasn't on the track, that would be a massive destruction! I it was - sorry all, there was really nothing I could do.  :-[

Was really looking forward to this race, as I couldn't join in NGT. #&!*


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: David M on August 10, 2005, 09:37:11 PM +0100
Were you in a Saleen? There was a saleen with uberlag on L1 - I ploughed right through it with no damage!


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: Aagramn on August 10, 2005, 10:04:45 PM +0100
Qualified 4th with a time only a quarter of a sec off my PB. Was having a very good race in 5th, holding a consistant gap to Locutus ahead and Blaz behind. Spun it out of the last corner and hit the wall by the pit entry. Can't have hit very fast, but found I had no engine.  :(

#*$%


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: Smoothy on August 10, 2005, 10:07:34 PM +0100
Qualified 14th on race setup (not much practice so thought it would be safer).

After my shameful performance at Enna I'm pleased to say I kept my nose clean this time.
Just as well really as someone took it off at the Foggy esses when I made a stupid mistake and spun into the first part at low speed while in 9th.
So it was a 55 second pit stop to get it repaired.

Came out of the pits in 20th and finished 14th after spending the rest of the race in amongst people who were a lap ahead.

(edited after watching replay).


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: Jamera on August 10, 2005, 10:11:01 PM +0100
who do we put the incident reports into??


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: Smoothy on August 10, 2005, 10:14:10 PM +0100
Dave Gymer.


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: Blaz on August 10, 2005, 10:16:38 PM +0100
Had bad quali (10th), clean race (5th), minor incident (for me) with Luis, hope it is not my fault because i left Luis some space and u made mistake (i think?)


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: JonM_uk on August 10, 2005, 10:20:08 PM +0100
Had a great blast today  ;D
 Just nicked pole with my last lap off mark with a nice time ;)
 Then the race....Started off well and tried to put a bit of a gap between me and mark, and then tried a little harder until I was right on the limit and then beyond, started to make slight errors. The times were pretty fast but I just couldn't shake him. And then the inevitable happened and mark came past at the hairpin,nice move dude! thought he would go away from me, at first he did but was able to see which lines mark was taking(especially through the old hairpin) and started to come back at him, strange thing was that the car seemed to handle better in 2nd place??? Guess that's the pressure.Came close to overtaking at redgate on last lap but that was about only chance.The boy was just to good for me. Great racing mark, and grats on a well deserved win  ;)


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: Aagramn on August 10, 2005, 10:23:00 PM +0100
Qualified 14th on race setup (not much practice so thought it would be safer).

Think I might do the same for the rest of the season, so I can cruise around and actually finish. I was lapping comfortably until Blaz caught up to me after I passed a back-marker, trying to hold my best pace while watching my mirrors probably caused my mistake. I don't have so much trouble following people around as I just ease off before the big braking points to give myself room for error.


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: Simon Gymer on August 10, 2005, 10:23:04 PM +0100
Managed to get my comp freeze out after a few turns - had to reset manualy, everything just f...king froze! Hope I wasn't on the track, that would be a massive destruction! I it was - sorry all, there was really nothing I could do.  :-[

I had to swerve hard to avoid you but just managed, but it was instinct and not sure you can hit a warped car anyway.

Server replay and exports are up here (http://replay.ukgtr.org/Donington%20GT-Sprint%20100805.zip).

I had quite a dull race once my damned tyres had warmed up. Really struggled for the first 3 laps and then tyres on heat and off I went. Couldn't stay with Jon and Mark though, Whoosh, they were fast. Well done to both for their blistering pace.

And finally, two points I'd like to make...

(1) JonM leading the pace lap was going far too slow on the start finish straight on the warmup lap. 45 mph as we crossed the line, we should have been doing 75mph, it bunched up the pack dangerously, so please keep it consistent at the reasonable 75mph speed.
(2) If you are a reserve you should not join before 8:55pm. I believe there was at least one person who joined very early and was a reserve and possibly one other (no names). Please remember to be fair on the full timers they must be allowed 10 mins once the server is started to get in and get the first spots and reserves only get what's left, a free for all when 8:55pm goes <BONG> (use your imagination  ;))


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: Aagramn on August 10, 2005, 10:27:34 PM +0100
Results are up.


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: Mark Harrison on August 10, 2005, 10:27:47 PM +0100
Wooooh yeah!  Am I knackered.  Brilliant, brilliant race.  All races should be like that.

Qualifying was pretty poor really - I'd done a 26.7 offline in qualy setup, but couldn't hook it up.  It looked as though I might snatch pole anyway, until Jon put his great lap in.  Hmmm, this could be interesting, I thought.

Race started, and we quickly pulled away from Shark, who was having tyre problems.  I was having to really go for it to stay with Jon, I think our fastest laps were both 27.4, which shows how hard we were pushing.  I could see Jon was trying fairly hard though, and I thought if I stayed with him, I'd have a chance.

I got close a couple of times in the first half of the race, before signs that his tyres were starting to go.  He washed out with understeer a couple of times at the hairpins - I wondered whether he outbraked himself, or whether he had put softs on the front or something.  But he regained his momentum, and his former lap times, so I began to doubt that.

Then, about two-thirds into the race, Jon makes a small mistake out of the chicane, and I get a run down to Melbourne hairpin.  I go inside, and make the move stick - Jon tried to cut back under, but I sat on the apex, and there was no chance of that.  Mission accomplished, I thought.  Now the hard part - surviving the pressure of 6-7 laps in front.

So I turned Motec off and just drove.  I didn't care how many laps were left, as long as I stayed in front of Jon, I didn't mind.

Then, 2 laps to go, and everything's going to plan.  Heading down to the chicane, and "you're running low on fuel, pit in next lap".  NOOOOO!!!!  Quick check of Motec and I saw that I indeed only had 4 litres left.  Would it last?  I knew it would be close, so started shortshifting a bit.

Then heading down to the first corner on the last lap, Jon gets a good run and is right on me.  I stay right, defending the inside line, and to my huge relief Jon doesn't find a way to get around me.  All thoughts off shortshifting out of my head, I made sure of not making another mistake.  I didn't - and the fuel held.  So I brought it home, massively relieved, by 2 tenths of a second.  What a tremendously exciting race - Jon and I were so evenly matched.  My championship hopes, which were on life support, have just flickered their eyelids.

Thanks guys :)


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: JonM_uk on August 10, 2005, 10:40:08 PM +0100
Yep Definitely a classic encounter mark, hope there's a few more of them  ;D
 Sorry for the slow pace on S/F straight, to be honest I wasn't paying enough attention....Sorry  :(


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: greg130 on August 10, 2005, 10:47:09 PM +0100
Well what a disaster of a race for me, had to happen sometime I guess.
Qualed in 8th, bit slow but not to bad, wow those guys are fast at the top.

Had a good warmup lap, then it was downhill i'm affraid.

Just at the start of lap 1 the noiseist aircraft in the world decides to take off from our local RAF base, the house is vibrating, cant even hear the game, spun twice.  Then to cap it off another bugger takes off, by this stage the kids have run in to ask me whats going on, ive completly lost all concentation and am now at the back of the pack, disaster to say the least ,lol.

So now i'm last with one heck of a lot of overtaking to do, at Doni, fantastic.
Anyway battled my way back up to a resonable position given the previous events. Obviously I pushing fairly hard, well a bit to hard perhaps.  
Then nightmare number 2 unfolds, I pass CP on the exit of the last turn, floor it and promptly spin into the pits, what the heck do I do now. Engage the pit limiter and drive thro, watching all the cars I had just passed overtake me, oh well bugger it.
By this stage i'm back in 16th or so with about 10 mins to go, give up ? Well I was tempted but on we go.
Somehow over the next 10 mins I crawl back up to 9th, then for the 3rd race running the car infront for some unknown reason hands me an extra place, thanks.
So finished 8th in the end, bloody amazing really considering all the events of the race.
Grats to the podium, great times guys.


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: ginsters sponsored on August 10, 2005, 10:50:37 PM +0100
Greg, do you practice wolverhampton voodoo? Is that the reason we lost 3-1 lead last night?


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: Luis Branco on August 10, 2005, 11:44:13 PM +0100
Had bad quali (10th), clean race (5th), minor incident (for me) with Luis, hope it is not my fault because i left Luis some space and u made mistake (i think?)

That ended my race :(
But no mistake from me, just race incident I think.
I think both cars were in a blind spot for us both. At least yours were for me. I left some space to the left but I thought you were already behind be. If I knew we were so close I would let it slip a bit to the right as I would be in a better position to take the next right corner.
I think I was in your blind spot as well. In the replay I notice that you jerked a bit to the left when you seem to be aware of my position on you right.
At least that didn't put us both out ;)
However it was an unfortunate way to end the race.


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: greg130 on August 11, 2005, 12:59:48 AM +0100
Greg, do you practice wolverhampton voodoo? Is that the reason we lost 3-1 lead last night?

Hehe, if only I had such powers. Still its nice to be above you guys in the league, even if it is early days.


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: Truetom on August 11, 2005, 07:18:43 AM +0100
Were you in a Saleen? There was a saleen with uberlag on L1 - I ploughed right through it with no damage!

Yes, I was in yellow Saleen. As far as I can tell I didn't cause a massive incident.  :) That's really strange 'cause I joined a public race and had no problems whatsoever. #&*#! Another race went by!  ???


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: David M on August 11, 2005, 10:05:12 AM +0100
Not a problem :)

Everyone else in front of me avoided you, there was only 1 or 2 people behind me after starting dead last after my spin on Warmup Lap  ::)


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: ginsters sponsored on August 11, 2005, 10:34:10 AM +0100
Well pretty good race last night. Quali went crap. Generally i find 15 minutes just to hectic but all the best seem to cope OK so I will just have to get use to it.  Did not panic for race and gradually gained places, very few seemed to result from bugs etc which is pleasing. Then had great battle with FlyBri for 4 or five laps. I was clearly later on the brakes than him, your 550 looked like a beast m8, but he took an aggressive defensive line (is that possible?) and made it very difficult to pass. Mixed emotions when he ran wide as I was enjoying scrap so much but slipped through and that was end of excitement as I had quite 10 or so laps to finish.

p.s. Greg, can you please check championship table again. I am going to make the most of being above you while I can.


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: greg130 on August 11, 2005, 11:57:23 AM +0100

p.s. Greg, can you please check championship table again. I am going to make the most of being above you while I can.

We are talking footy here ?
Wolves are 7th with 4 points.
Reading are 8th with 3 points.
As for the gtr table, well you have a massive 42 point lead on me mate, that will take some clawing back.


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: Mark Harrison on August 11, 2005, 01:36:29 PM +0100
Were you in a Saleen? There was a saleen with uberlag on L1 - I ploughed right through it with no damage!

Yes, I was in yellow Saleen. As far as I can tell I didn't cause a massive incident.  :) That's really strange 'cause I joined a public race and had no problems whatsoever. #&*#! Another race went by!  ???

Yeah I remember you being between Macleans and Coppice, stopped on track.  Luckily I saw you very early, after last week, and I think Jon in front did too.  Bloody game... ::)


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: ginsters sponsored on August 11, 2005, 03:48:12 PM +0100
Twas football Greg. I follow the Argyle not Reading. We are on 4 as well but have scored more goals than you. Difference is, you are nailed on for at least the playoffs whereas I am looking forward to a long hard season. Though I am looking forward to Southampton away and I am going to wolves on new years eve.

I will need those 42 points before Brno, your not bad there ;)


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: Rob Bywater "Kerb Crawlers" on August 11, 2005, 04:33:42 PM +0100
Twas football Greg. I follow the Argyle not Reading. We are on 4 as well but have scored more goals than you. Difference is, you are nailed on for at least the playoffs whereas I am looking forward to a long hard season. Though I am looking forward to Southampton away and I am going to wolves on new years eve. Hope I don't suffer the typical Argyle mid season slump and stay above you in gt league  ;D, I think we will be pretty close by the end.

Hee hee, my Dad and brother are season ticket holders at the Molineux.

Cheers

Rob


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: greg130 on August 11, 2005, 06:45:03 PM +0100
Twas football Greg. I follow the Argyle not Reading. We are on 4 as well but have scored more goals than you. Difference is, you are nailed on for at least the playoffs whereas I am looking forward to a long hard season. Though I am looking forward to Southampton away and I am going to wolves on new years eve.

I will need those 42 points before Brno, your not bad there ;)

Sorry mate for some reason I thought you were a reading man.  As for gtr, well its a long way to the finish, wish I had been there for the barc race.  There was more than an element of luck in the Brno win, besides its one of my fav's so I expected to be in the points there.  Should develop into a competitive season.


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: bernie_eccle on August 11, 2005, 07:42:10 PM +0100

Somehow over the next 10 mins I crawl back up to 9th, then for the 3rd race running the car in front for some unknown reason hands me an extra place, thanks.
So finished 8th in the end, bloody amazing really considering all the events of the race.
Grats to the podium, great times guys.


That was me that handed you 8th.  I am absolutely gutted.  After qualifying about 18th, I ran a good race and looked after my tyres.  I passed a few guys early on then in the last third of the race applied pressure when the guys in front were obviously struggling with their tyres.  Anyway when I crossed the line I noticed that there was no time left in the race so I assumed that that was me finished, but just to make certain I kept going on that lap, as I came around the last corner I thought oh well that is fine I can pull into the pits only to escape and see that I was listed as DNF -arghhh!!!!  To compound matters I was really pushing on the last couple of laps and had got the gap down from 6 sec to 3 secs to 7th and I am sure that I probably could been very close if I had just done the last lap.
Oh well as they always say in CART and NASCAR - "We'll have another go next week"!


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: FlyBri on August 12, 2005, 08:22:15 AM +0100
Well pretty good race last night. Quali went crap. Generally i find 15 minutes just to hectic but all the best seem to cope OK so I will just have to get use to it.  Did not panic for race and gradually gained places, very few seemed to result from bugs etc which is pleasing. Then had great battle with FlyBri for 4 or five laps. I was clearly later on the brakes than him, your 550 looked like a beast m8, but he took an aggressive defensive line (is that possible?) and made it very difficult to pass. Mixed emotions when he ran wide as I was enjoying scrap so much but slipped through and that was end of excitement as I had quite 10 or so laps to finish.

p.s. Greg, can you please check championship table again. I am going to make the most of being above you while I can.

Never been fast at Donnington, a track i tend to keep away from lol. Had been practicing through the week, but i never managed to break the 1.30 barrier  :o but in qualifing i managed a 1.28.5 which i was chuffed about and for a moment i thought i might be able to mix it with the big boys in the race....!!  ::)

But my race wasnt pretty as Ginsters has already pointed out, i gambled on a untried risky set up to try and stop tyres from overheating (lol didnt work). Started 12th off grid, a few cars went off and got up to 9th with ginster a few secs behind, he found his rhythem and started to put pressure on, i was running in the 1.31's and ginster stayed within a sec of me for those 4 or 5 laps. like he mentioned i was struggling under braking (turned braked pressure down to 85% to stop lock ups), and had a couple of big moments braking for the last corner, you would have thought i would have learnt but again coming into last corner the back end came out slightly and pushed me car half on grass so i had to come off brakes to avoid a spin and took the scenic route around the last corner!!

That was that, Ginster then showed his true pace and sped off into the distance at over 1-2 secs a lap. Enjoyed that ginster while it lasted but you were too quick to hold off, i was overdriving the car (watched the replay and my car was constantly sideways or sliding  :-[) to try and keep a gap but the more i was overdriving the more my tyres cooked. Finished 7th in the end which wasnt too bad........

From the replays the car to have was the Lister, looked a solid car for the donigton track unlike MY ferrari!!


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: Simon Gymer on August 12, 2005, 12:13:44 PM +0100
From the replays the car to have was the Lister, looked a solid car for the donigton track unlike MY ferrari!!

Yes, but why be like everyone else? Standout from the Lister crowd.
If both NGT and GT sprints carry on as they are Season 2 might need some incentives to take other cars.


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: popabawa on August 12, 2005, 02:47:58 PM +0100
Quote
If both NGT and GT sprints carry on as they are Season 2 might need some incentives to take other cars.

[To clarify, I'm assuming you are referring to a lack of variety in car choice  ;)]

Do you have any thoughts on how that might work?

Pops.


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: fozzmeister on August 12, 2005, 03:04:40 PM +0100
From the replays the car to have was the Lister, looked a solid car for the donigton track unlike MY ferrari!!

Yes, but why be like everyone else? Standout from the Lister crowd.
If both NGT and GT sprints carry on as they are Season 2 might need some incentives to take other cars.

I would prefer to see a "you must take the whole car for the whole season". Yes everyone may choose the Lister, but at least the F550 and Viper(?) etc will have a big atvantage at Monza as they have more powerful engines.

The NGT is a different matter, but there are only 2 competitive cars in that class, with the Bi-T being a very outside possibility, so its hardly surprising... There's gonna be loads of 911's and F360's. But we are using different tires and we are all setting up our own cars, so the are going to be stronger/weaker at specific turns etc.


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: Paul968 on August 12, 2005, 03:27:21 PM +0100
I agree with Fozz - always wanted to see a 'one car all season' restriction to make drivers take the rough with the smooth. Letting people cherry pick the best car for each track was always likely to encourage grids with a lot of the same car IMO. Having said that, the Lister is a good all-rounder and would be an attractive choice for the whole season.

Paul


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: picnic on August 12, 2005, 03:54:23 PM +0100
always wanted to see a 'one car all season'

And some of us are driving one car all season ;) John Guest sponsered 911 here all the way :D


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: ginsters sponsored on August 12, 2005, 04:29:00 PM +0100
I will be using Lister all season. Its the only car I can handle.

I know more power will be crucial at Monza but swapping to suit tracks should be frowned upon. Its just not cricket (christ I sound like one of those legend boys).


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: Truetom on August 12, 2005, 04:44:47 PM +0100
always wanted to see a 'one car all season'

And some of us are driving one car all season ;) John Guest sponsered 911 here all the way :D


I drive a yellow Saleen in GT sprint and Endurance and F360 in NGT sprint. That will be my choice for the whole season. I can't imagine a team in real world to own all cars and drivers to know them all and to pick one for a specific track or track conditions (rain). Fun races are different.


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: PaulW on August 12, 2005, 04:56:07 PM +0100
One car all season is a nice idea but definitely isn't a solution to the samey grids we have with GTR- already we've got several people saying they'd go for the Lister in GT and, as an overall more predicatable drive, everyone would still drive a 360 in NGT. I'd be up for it but I think it'd be a little more drab setting up and racing the same car over and over and over.

I suspect this isn't what Shark was thinking of though (correct me if Im wrong and all that jazz)- more a question of maybe bonus places for racing in a Morgan?


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: Paul968 on August 12, 2005, 05:00:10 PM +0100
I think NGT is a bit different - the 2 main choices are a much better bet over the season for most people, and the 360 is just a lot easier to race (as opposed to hotlap - I am roughly the same pace at most tracks). For the GTs tho the cars have different strengths and weaknesses at each track, and it seems wrong to allow drivers to hop out of a car just because the odd track is less suited for it.

Paul


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: fozzmeister on August 12, 2005, 05:32:14 PM +0100
I think NGT is a bit different - the 2 main choices are a much better bet over the season for most people, and the 360 is just a lot easier to race (as opposed to hotlap - I am roughly the same pace at most tracks). For the GTs tho the cars have different strengths and weaknesses at each track, and it seems wrong to allow drivers to hop out of a car just because the odd track is less suited for it.

Paul

Thats it, besides, it's natural to have skew of cars. I mean seriously as long as it's not 2/3'rds of the field I don't see the problem, I mean there are loads of different types of Viper, which were in the 2003 season, what is that about 1/3rd.

Also I think if I was in GT. It's obvious that there are a few people quicker than me, some much more so. So the top 4ish(?) drivers would be pulled to something which is a good all rounder. Someone like me might be more drawn to a car that exels in one particular area so in one or two tracks at least I'd stand a semi reasonable chance of running in the top three or so. Thus making a more mixed grid, and a more compititve one too. The reverse could happen also with everyone picking a good all rounder  ???


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: greg130 on August 12, 2005, 10:17:20 PM +0100
Well one idea to mix it up a bit and even out the field is to enforce one car for the whole season but with a twist.
The team or driver that comes last has first pick of the cars and so on, until the championship winner is left with the car that no one wants.
Obviously you would need to decide how many of each type of car would be avaliable, would be a bit harsh to have only one Lambo avaliable for the whole field.  Perhaps it could be done by teams, say  3 x Saleen teams, 3 x Lister teams etc etc.
Just a thought.


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: Mark Harrison on August 13, 2005, 12:31:05 AM +0100
Well I said long before the start of the season that for the first season I would be in the Lister, so I can select it without feeling the slightest pang of guilt :D

I'll be in something different for next season, though.


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: fozzmeister on August 13, 2005, 12:46:07 AM +0100
I'm almost certainly gonna race GT next season... I'm working towards on F550, having done semi OK with a F575 on some tracks.

Fozzmeister


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: locutos ukgtr on August 14, 2005, 11:41:25 AM +0100
Yup, same here Mark, Lister driver in both this and wosec series. I am able to concentrate on 1 set up and have only to fine tune now for each circuit. I did say b4 season started that it seemed a bit strange to allow guys to hop from car to car so they could select what they considered the best type for a given track. I know I have a speed disadvantage on spa and monza, but I wont swap cars just to try to get an advantage. Perhaps for season 2, a limited number of cars from each group should be given, loser from season 1 gets 1st pick and so on up the order. U stick with that car for the season. Might even tighten up the racing making it more competetive.


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: Simon Gymer on August 14, 2005, 12:17:59 PM +0100
I don't think there is anyone (or at least very few) that is actually swapping cars to suit for each track, although I do think more people are moving towards permanently taking the Lister. It gets a bit boring when you're a lone Lambo amongst the Lister pack. I quite like the idea of having a certain number of cars and everybody gets to pick one at the start of the season. Sort of like the NFL draft, the slowest teams from the previous seasons championship get to pick first and so on. This could have the effect of firstly making sure there is a nice variety of cars on the grid but also a side bonus of making things a even more competitive by having the faster teams in slower cars. It would be great to have weight penalties but as the game doesn't provide that maybe this is an alternative. There are other obvious alternatives already tried out in UKGPL, but it's difficult to apply them to Sprint races, although they should work ok for the Endurance events (tokens or forced pitstops).

Personally, I've stuck with the Lambo all season in GT and F360 in NGT cause I just love to drive the Lambo even if it isn't as ulimately as quick as the Lister.

I think my original point was that we are in danger of having a one make series especially in the NGT. The Mosler and Morgan are not that far off the F360 and 911 and it would just take only a little penalty to be added to the F360 to even the thing out and hopefully mean more people take different cars.


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: fozzmeister on August 14, 2005, 01:47:51 PM +0100
I don't think there is anyone (or at least very few) that is actually swapping cars to suit for each track, although I do think more people are moving towards permanently taking the Lister. It gets a bit boring when you're a lone Lambo amongst the Lister pack. I quite like the idea of having a certain number of cars and everybody gets to pick one at the start of the season. Sort of like the NFL draft, the slowest teams from the previous seasons championship get to pick first and so on. This could have the effect of firstly making sure there is a nice variety of cars on the grid but also a side bonus of making things a even more competitive by having the faster teams in slower cars. It would be great to have weight penalties but as the game doesn't provide that maybe this is an alternative. There are other obvious alternatives already tried out in UKGPL, but it's difficult to apply them to Sprint races, although they should work ok for the Endurance events (tokens or forced pitstops).

Yeh that's all very nice, but it was always my plan to learn in an NGT (kindof like an easy level on a game) and move upto GT. How would you rate me against the GT drivers? (that's not a question) So how would you tell when I would get to pick a car?

There was only four Listers in the last endurance race BTW, Although I take your point that the sprint is a Lister Fest.


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: PaulW on August 14, 2005, 05:23:53 PM +0100
Well one idea to mix it up a bit and even out the field is to enforce one car for the whole season but with a twist.
The team or driver that comes last has first pick of the cars and so on, until the championship winner is left with the car that no one wants.
Obviously you would need to decide how many of each type of car would be avaliable, would be a bit harsh to have only one Lambo avaliable for the whole field.  Perhaps it could be done by teams, say  3 x Saleen teams, 3 x Lister teams etc etc.
Just a thought.
I like Gregs idea best. A season is quite a long chunk of time to be stuck with a car you don't really like because you're being penalised from the season before or, perhaps more importantly, a 550 which is frustrating as hell to drive because you didn't do very wel the previous seasonl. There's a bit of a masochisitc edge to that system and surely UKGTR should be enjoyable first and foremost?!

A race by race penalty system based on the previous race though- now that would be exciting! Everything would get mixed up in terms of qualification performances, we'd all get a chance to drive more cars and we'd all get a little sweetener in the form of a 'great' car for the next race should we have done badly.

I realise I'm probably the exception here but I don't want to be forced to drive one car all season- I bought GTR so that I could try several cars out and don't want to listen to the same engine note for hour after hour after hour, month after month!


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: [ZiP]Tyf on August 14, 2005, 05:42:53 PM +0100
I realise I'm probably the exception here but I don't want to be forced to drive one car all season- I bought GTR so that I could try several cars out and don't want to listen to the same engine note for hour after hour after hour, month after month!

You're not alone there m8! I did the MegaMonster and other thingymebob on GTRank a couple of days after I found out what it was! :) It's awesome to drive all the different cars and really feel the differences as well. So I'm with you on this one :).

T


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: fozzmeister on August 14, 2005, 06:42:38 PM +0100
I'm not prepared to drive a different car each race. For me swapping is not something that I would consider, I know the 360 like the back of my hand now, others _should_ be like that with thier other cars. Infact I probably would not race if I'm forced to keep changing cars, I'd rather be stuck with something I hate all season.

Fozzmeister


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: PaulW on August 14, 2005, 06:55:26 PM +0100
There you go then- horses for courses. Some people really like using one car, others really dislike using one car. Not much you can do then with the field of cars GTR offers and probably any solution would result in unhappy drivers.


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: fozzmeister on August 14, 2005, 07:17:58 PM +0100
How about a system where you lose say 2 champ points when you change car. That may give the front runners, thier desire to race against other cars, while simultaniously giving the people near the bottom (who aren't racing for champ places, but just for races?) the chance of picking a stronger car. I don't know if teams can change cars in the middle, but they can change drivers, and that must have a cost to the team so it kindof makes sense in a strange wierd crazy way.

Fozzmeister.


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: picnic on August 14, 2005, 07:26:15 PM +0100
That's the trouble with leagues that have many racers, you don't all have the same views on sticking to one car all season or swapping, how long races should last for, how to slow the quick guys down etc. Whatever is done is a compromise and needs to keep the drivers attending events. Dictating the car you must drive all season maybe more akin to real world where you get your drive and generally stick with it, but would alienate many drivers (IMHO)

The real problem here, again my view, is that Simbin tempted us all with weight penalties but then failed to implement that for online races.


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: fozzmeister on August 14, 2005, 07:43:13 PM +0100
Yeh weight penalties would be a nice solution, but the Lister aint the fastest car, which kindof makes it a bit backward if the car that isn't the fastest get's slowed down...

I don't know why I'm taking part in this conversation, it actually doesn't bother me much. Just throwing ideas into the pot I guess. I know Comet (I think it was them) were going to ban the F550 as it was becoming an F550 league, dunno if they did it. Personally, If everybody was picking a car that I wanted to use, it'd make an effor not to.

Fozzmeister

edit
Actually if there are cars I would not drive, Lister and Saleen spring to mind, so actually on further reflection, it does bother me.


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: picnic on August 14, 2005, 08:04:02 PM +0100
The weight penalties would not be used to slow a Lister, or any other car down, but a quick driver. Doesn't solve the problem of everyone taking the same car but would help to keep racing closer.


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer on August 14, 2005, 10:19:59 PM +0100
The weight penalties would not be used to slow a Lister, or any other car down, but a quick driver. Doesn't solve the problem of everyone taking the same car but would help to keep racing closer.

I'd quite like to use weight penalties to equalise the cars, actually. Much more elegant solution than the timed pit stops we've been forced to use in UKGPL. Then we'd be truly comparing drivers and not driver plus car combinations.


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: picnic on August 14, 2005, 10:51:30 PM +0100
Would you've simply slaped the weight on the car then irrespective of the quality of driver? I'd see the weights as being a way to even out the driver ability too. I know this is all theoretical but perhaps GTL or rFactor......


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer on August 15, 2005, 08:04:16 AM +0100
Would you've simply slaped the weight on the car then irrespective of the quality of driver?

Yes. If a driver is running away with a championship we need to find them some better quality opposition, not artificially slow them down.


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: Simon Gymer on August 15, 2005, 08:41:19 AM +0100
Hmm not sure I agree with that. I don't mind making it more competitive but the fastest drivers should still be entitled to win they are the fastest. It's like penalising Ferrari F1 team just cause they win all the time (please no political nonsense threads from that comment).


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: popabawa on August 15, 2005, 08:57:42 AM +0100
Dave's suggestion of weight handicapping the cars seems ideal though impossible to implement as I understand it.

I had a look at the GPL league to see the handicaps applied to the cars and that makes perfect sense for the Endurance races.

Agree with Shark too, fastest drivers should win unless we specifically introduce a 'handicap' series (like in horse racing) where the intention would be to get everyone over the finish line at the same time. Not sure if very many people would find that motivating and we'd run out of days of the week!

In my view, discrepancies in driver ability is best handled through leagues and we'll have a much clearer view on driver ability at the end of Season 1.


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: Simon Gymer on August 15, 2005, 09:16:51 AM +0100
Yes absolutely, nothing needs to be done yet. Just some ideas come the close season and what to do for Season 2 (if anything, after all if this season is a big success (despite GTR's best efforts to thwart us) we may not need to change anything).


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: picnic on August 15, 2005, 09:42:00 AM +0100
Hmm not sure I agree with that. I don't mind making it more competitive but the fastest drivers should still be entitled to win they are the fastest. It's like penalising Ferrari F1 team just cause they win all the time (please no political nonsense threads from that comment).

Or like Touring Cars ;)

Even with weight penalties it is my view the cream would still win, they are capable of pushing and being more consistent. It's a good job people like myself race with the knowledge that I have no chance of winning, unless helped by car choice/weight penalties etc., as the grids would be very small.


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: fozzmeister on August 15, 2005, 09:53:45 AM +0100
I don't like weight penalties at all per-se. But the default GT/GTR one isn't so bad. It's just enough to close the grid up a bit, and not enough so its impossible to well after winning. I also liked the fallof, a P3 hardly get's any penalty so it naturally closes up the top few cars (the fact that my average endurance position is P3 doesn't have anything to do with it  :) )


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: PaulW on August 15, 2005, 10:39:52 AM +0100
It's a good job people like myself race with the knowledge that I have no chance of winning, unless helped by car choice/weight penalties etc., as the grids would be very small.
Lol I'm with ya there brother! I'm just racing for my own personal podium starting at about 6th place  :)


Handicapping cars to encourage diversity and handicapping drivers to close up the racing are widely different things. I'd be interested in driving in a series that did either but the former is much more straighforward to do as its a single "cold light of day" judgement call at the start of the season.

It feels fair to say that the fastest drivers are also the most skilled, experienced and consistent so they'd still be winning all over the place. It would just give us mortals a better chance of fighting amongst them occasionally.


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: fozzmeister on August 15, 2005, 12:17:48 PM +0100
Certainly I was a lot worse driver when I was allocated D1, than I am now however, Probably at least 1-2secs I would guess. So allocating at the start would not work at all for D2 (or D3?) which would get newer drivers improving quickly. As people get closer to thier/the limit the improvement becomes slower, so its easier however, so its not as unmanageable in D1, at least for later seasons.

Fozzmeister


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: PaulW on August 15, 2005, 12:26:04 PM +0100
I think I'm with you there Fozz if we we're applying weight penalities to slow drivers rather than cars. But in that case I guess the weight penalities would be applied for each race based on the previous races results rather than once at the start of the season.


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: popabawa on August 15, 2005, 12:48:33 PM +0100
My 2p's worth  ;D

I really don't think handicapping drivers (rather than cars) is going to work.

One fundamental flaw is that you have to have a person working out the handicap's, it gets very complex rating each driver on their 'usual performance' (to use the horse racing parlance).

For example, if I run 6th at Enna in a 20 min NGT, how will I be handicapped for a Enduro race at Spa? It's then a 'best guess' by the handicapper.

In order for horses to become handicapped, thay have to effectively 'qualify' to give the handicapper enough info. before they can reasonably apply a handicap. Yes, we *could* use season 1 as a base but you still end up with the same problem for new drivers, switching series etc. etc.

Handicap races only exist in horse racing to keep the races close for punters because of the betting industry, which in turn (partially) provides the incentives to enter a handicap by generating prize money.

We don't have prize money, so where's the incentive for the fastest drivers in UKGTR to compete in a handicap rather than another (non-hadicapped) series?

Pops.


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: fozzmeister on August 15, 2005, 12:57:43 PM +0100
My 2p's worth  ;D

I really don't think handicapping drivers (rather than cars) is going to work.

One fundamental flaw is that you have to have a person working out the handicap's, it gets very complex rating each driver on their 'usual performance' (to use the horse racing parlance).

For example, if I run 6th at Enna in a 20 min NGT, how will I be handicapped for a Enduro race at Spa? It's then a 'best guess' by the handicapper.

In order for horses to become handicapped, thay have to effectively 'qualify' to give the handicapper enough info. before they can reasonably apply a handicap. Yes, we *could* use season 1 as a base but you still end up with the same problem for new drivers, switching series etc. etc.

Handicap races only exist in horse racing to keep the races close for punters because of the betting industry, which in turn (partially) provides the incentives to enter a handicap by generating prize money.

We don't have prize money, so where's the incentive for the fastest drivers in UKGTR to compete in a handicap rather than another (non-hadicapped) series?

Pops.

Real GT races, as well as touring cars have handicaps, which does, I think work quite well, mostly because it doesn't work that much (if you see what I mean). Certainly the "real" type of handicaps would not turn me off.

Fozzmeister


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: popabawa on August 15, 2005, 01:02:12 PM +0100
Quote
Real GT races, as well as touring cars have handicaps, which does, I think work quite well, mostly because it doesn't work that much (if you see what I mean). Certainly the "real" type of handicaps would not turn me off.

Can you explain how they work Fozz? Must be a different way to Horse Racing, unfortunately, I know much more about that than motor sport!


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: PaulW on August 15, 2005, 01:03:47 PM +0100
Good points Pops. Perhaps one incentive being the winning driver in a harder-than-usual series but it's a tenuous one and lacks wide appeal.

Agreed, on the whole a nightmare to work out handicaps for drivers and apply them. Loads of extra work. Thinking about how long it would take me to sit down and process incident reports for just one race as one aspect of the behind the scenes admin for UKGTR makes my eyes water!


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: popabawa on August 15, 2005, 01:20:33 PM +0100
Had a quick look on the FIA GT site and could only find this on handicaps (my added bold);

Quote
Handicap Weight
In order to optimise the equality of performance between cars, new ballast weight handicaps have been approved by the World Motor Sport Council. These new weights will be cumulative; at the end of each race meeting, the previous weight handicaps will be cancelled and new ones applied. However, the maximum weight may not exceed 40 kg.

Having a maximum handicap is a sensible idea as it still lets the fastest drivers be fastest but shores the rest of the field up.

This link (at the bottom) explains how the handicaps work in Japan GT Championship;

http://www.japanesesportcars.com/sport/jgtc.php

Interesting!

Pops


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: fozzmeister on August 15, 2005, 01:24:32 PM +0100
It's in your GTR manual


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: popabawa on August 15, 2005, 02:06:26 PM +0100
[EDITED for extreme muppetry]  ::)

Thanks Fozz, works the same way as the JGTC mentioned above.


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: fozzmeister on August 15, 2005, 02:09:29 PM +0100
Quote
It's in your GTR manual

Do you mean about handicaps?

Can't find a thing in my manual  ???

Oh damn, Fsck knows what I've been smokin', I saw it in _some_ SimBin documentation, I'll have to have a look around, I'll let u know.

Foz


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: popabawa on August 15, 2005, 02:10:34 PM +0100
Sorry Fozz, you are correct, after I posted I realised you meant the pdf, not the paper manual!


Title: Re: GT Sprint Cup - Season 1, Round 5, Donington - Aug 10th
Post by: fozzmeister on August 15, 2005, 02:26:23 PM +0100
Sorry Fozz, you are correct, after I posted I realised you meant the pdf, not the paper manual!

Well I didn't really, just remembered some SimBin docs and assumed :-S