SimRacing.org.uk

UKGPL Season 15 Clubmans Cup - Round 5 - Zandvoort - May 25

Gentlemen, welcome to the round five of the championship, see race announcement below.

Please keep up the good work with excellent first lap record of Clubman division. :)

Wish you all good luck.

Kruger


Please be in the UKGPL IGOR chat-room by 20:25 BST.

Server 3.ukgpl
IP address 87.194.135.42
Race date = 25-05-2008, 20:30 BST
Track = Zandvoort
Race length = Int Long (27 laps)

Qualifying time = 35 minutes. Don't start until 30 mins left on
clock to
allow everyone to join.


CHASSIS RESTRICTIONS
The following groups of drivers are restricted to the cars shown
below unless they opt to carry out additional pit stops to equalise
the performance of the car that is chosen:-

Group 1 - 1st and 2nd - Limited to BRM, Cooper or Honda
Chris Bull
Artur Le Marquand

Group 2 - 3rd and 4th - Limited to BRM, Cooper, Honda or Brabham
Phil Thornton
Bernie Darwin

Group 3 - 5th and 6th - Cannot take Eagle or Lotus
Robert Burton
Ben Summers

Group 4 - 7th and 8th - Cannot take Lotus
Will Tway
Ian Docherty

9th and below - Free choice of chassis.

PIT STOPS FOR DRIVERS OPTING TO USE FASTER CAR THAN ALLOWED ABOVE
Drivers wishing to take a chassis other than as specified above will
need to make the appropriate pit stop(s) as follows:

Group 1
Lotus 1 x 32 seconds or 2 x 11 seconds
Ferrari 1 x 18 seconds
Eagle 1 x 17 seconds
Brabham 1 x 12 seconds

Group 2
Lotus 1 x 10 seconds
Ferrari Stop n Go
Eagle Stop n Go

Group 3
Lotus 1 x 5 seconds
Ferrari Stop n Go

Group 4
Lotus 1 x 4 seconds

The pit window is as follows:

Pit stop to be taken between 21 to go and 13 to go on your pit
board. If a second pit stop is required it cannot be taken on the
lap following your first stop and must be completed before your pit
board says 6 laps to go.

Password: see above (#post_event_password)
(2) Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=79&theme=6)

REED, MARQUE, LEARN: THE JACK O’FERRALL STORY

Zandvoort May 25

….We were all fairly low after Monaco, though neither of the accidents had been avoidable, even if we'd been just trying to finish rather than trying to race.  I stayed away from Burley and spent some time with the mechanics.  At night we played a game that involved telling Scotch from Bourbon while smoking a Havana cigar.  It was easy at first.  Then one of them jibed that without my frockcoat and ruffs the car would be a second faster, and I was having none of that.  I would have driven round Snetterton naked if they hadn't warned me about loose filings on the seat.   Ian joined me, he said afterwards that he had always driven like that for his previous team.  We were both completely pickled and went some tenths faster, though it was quite drafty to say the least.  The mechanics weren't keen on the H-16 either, the ones that didn't explode took all their nights to fix.  The only unit that had lasted long enough to be clapped out they handed over to Lotus, and Clark won with it.  The mechanic with the guitar, Jim, told me that they blamed Chapman for the H-16 anyway.  Apparently Honda had sent Chapman a V12 and a request for a partnership and Chapman had decided to stall them while he had a Coventry Climax flat-16 built.  Honda then had to run their own car.  The Climax 16 failed, but when the new three litre formula was announced Loot told Chapman that we could build a replacement for him.  So that was two good British firms as well as Honda p’d off and then he sold out to Ford and a V8….

Tom caught up with me at the track, I was watching practice without my pit pass.  Well it made Clark’s career.  He was scornful.  ‘If you want to get your back end out more, use the throttle, not the Dutch police,’ he commented  ‘And they've arrested Burt already, anyway.  For not watching during practice.  Apparently he might not only get thrown off the premises but get thrown out of a series, though it's not ours.’ 
  ‘So what's it to do with us?’
  ‘It’s the same police, Jack.  Stop wasting your time, you've got to get suited up.’
   ‘Tom, this gear might not be very impressive, but it is my suit.  Also, I was considering wearing less.  Surtees races in his string vest.’
    ‘Not your driving suit Jack.   You’re to do some mod stuff for one of Loot's daughters.  Turtleneck sweaters, lounge pants and suits.  And no need to shave.  If you do it he might let you off Monaco until next year, if you win in the States of course.’
    An offer I couldn't refuse.  I must have seemed less than impressed, because Tom hastily came up with another carrot.  ‘And you'll both get helmets with signatures in picked out in top-quality gold, as we planned if you won last time out.  I've had them made up already.’
   ‘Hang on Tom, I told you that I wanted to do mine again, add more of a flourish to it.’
   ‘You better look at this first, Jack.’  He handed me my new bling helmet, very fancy.  There was a signature on the side, inlaid in gold, with a few diamonds sprinkled about.  Sort of squiggly, but clear enough.  ‘Graham Hill’, it said…..

In the pits I had a look around for that Honda, but it didn't seem to have shown up, less chance of being deliberately rammed off the track then.  Probably off practicing some kind of martial arts that relies on speed, surprise and completely outwitting the opponent, like taking aim at their rear wheel at twenty miles an hour.  I would have mentioned it to Tom, but that would have risked hearing the tale of the ‘Mexican Grand Prix of 1964’ again, and at the point where Bandini gets in the elevator I would just have cracked and had to back off.  Know your limits.  However, I did spot that the other Phoenix driver had turned up for the race, dunno why last year's champions could only afford to hire one car between them, perhaps they could move to a single chassis, cut their costs.  The Eagles have the Weslake V12.  I suppose hiring a Cooper supports the revival of the British car industry since they've agreed to be rid of the old Maserati engine next season, though you could try telling that to Colin Chapman. 

I was pleased with my qualifying time, under 1:28 and I managed to get a couple of full fuel laps in as well, there was going to be no problem with the fronts at Zandvoort.   There was a bunch of cars only slightly faster and it looked set for a good race, but it never seemed to happen.  There was a pile up that I had to dodge, then I was racing an Eagle, then it span and after that I was miles behind the leaders.  One or two of them span and dropped back briefly, but I wasn't close enough that pushing would have made much of a difference, and when the Eagle re-passed me it span off again on the same lap.  Perhaps if I hadn't DNF’d the last three races I would have taken more chances, but as it was I almost stopped at the hint of anything happening ahead of me and came sixth.  Will won for Crash’n’Burn, his first of the season and a 1-2 for them, champagne and a BBQ.  I’d eaten earlier, perhaps I lacked motivation.  I wonder how much an ornamental ‘Graham Hill- Marvel of Monaco’ helmet will be worth a few decades on? 

Sorry I didn't make this one but my brain must have been all over the place and I tried to get in at just after 9 thinking I'd make the praccy.  :oops: :censored:

Gratz to Will and Phil. Great job guys.  :jumpjoy:

C ya all at the next one.  ;D

Hi all,
       Sorry couldnt make this one, was my Mothers Birthday so was out for a slap up Meal! :)

Grats to Will and Phil, Great Result for CnB once again.

Replay and other stuff uploaded @ http://www.neurology-crew.com/gplserver

Cheers,
       Bully.

Thanks Chris for uploading the replay so quickly  :thumbup1:

My compliments to you for taking care of your mom for her birthday. Give her our regards and wish her happy birthday on our behalf.

... and tell her what a wonderful son she has :)

Mom? MOM?

Curse you American media  >:(!

Not your fault Kruger, but in British English it's MUM.

;D

Nice story there Jack.  ;D

Sorry to race and run last night but the wife was furious and I had to at least try to make amends....whilst scrounging for some leftover BBQ. .

Got a PB in Qually and had the Eagle dialed in. Having missed the last two events, I was glad to be back.  It was nice to see several new drivers in the field as well. I think I only played in the sandbox one time, which has to be some sort of record in my expiring career at Zandy.

Fun as always.

Grats to Phil and Ian.

See y’all in Germany.
Hopefully Chris and Art will be back.

Will
 

Race results are imported. You may now submit your incident reports.

Kruger

Managed a new PB in qually which was good enough for second in the grid but I was never going to get near team mate Will in the Eagle.  Great to get a front row lockout for Crash and Burn.

Got a good start and tried to hang on to Will’s Eagle but he gradually pulled away.  I had far more to worry about behind me, Ian’s Eagle all over my gearbox.  Managed to pull enough of a gap through the twisty bits to give Ian a lot to do under braking into T1, the obvious passing place for the Eagle.  Fortunately for me Ian tried a bit too hard on lap 4 and he spun giving me some breathing space.  I tried to settle down and stick in some fast consistent laps and try to build a bit of a cushion over Bernie, one of my regular sparing partners this season, who had taken up the chase after Ian’s demise. 

I’d built up a decent gap but then on lap 7 I was confronted by a Honda marooned on the racing line at Panoramabocht (in his haste to get out of the way for race leader Will, Dennis had clipped the grass and spun – no need to panic when you are about to be lapped just drive your normal line, the race leaders will get past in their own time.  It’s much easier to lap drivers who are driving predictably rather than taking unusual and unpredictable lines whilst trying to make room).  There were no yellow flags and there was nothing I could do, I hit Dennis plumb square which fortunately for me didn’t damage the suspension.  I was able to continue without a shift R and without loosing any places but I’d lost my cushion and Bernie was big in my mirrors.  In my efforts to keep Bernie at bay I outbraked myself into Tarzanbocht on lap 9 and lost 2 places to Bernie and Ian.  Undeterred I set off after them and thanks to them trying to outbrake each other at Tarzan on lap 11 I got second place back.  Although I was so busy watching them I got my braking a bit wrong and nearly followed them onto the grass! 

By now Will was away and gone so I tried to drive steadily and consolidate my second place.  But Ian hadn’t given up and by the last lap he was almost on me again but the chequered flag came out just in time.  Grats Will, maximum points for Crash and Burn :D.

Not to hot on qually and I had been late on the grid but second row 4th wasnt too bad. Zandy is a place where it takes time to get into the rythm and I was having trouble finding the correct tempo. I was initially being hotly persude by me old sparring partner Butenheimer (Famous U Tube producer , autographs available cheap) . By dint of the usual careful manouvering I scraped my way up to 2nd place but lap11 saw me chuck it away at Tarzan when Ian's flying eagle soared by me at warp speed and I followed him up the bank. Now the crazy thing about this was he had been catching me fast for the last few laps and I was having trouble finding the brake pedal (which wasnt always in the same place ,thanks to a "floating " office chair) so I was braking earlier and carefully , I took the inside line this time around , expecting Ian to go the quick way around on the "normal" line . I think it was just the shock of seeing him come flying up the inside that made me momentarily lose concentration and my brake point and the result was I ended up in the sand trap on fairway No 3. I had to fetch a sand wedge to drive out of there and by the time I got mobile again the race for me was more or less over , drove me goolies off in the hope that some kind sole would cause a multi pile up but instead of finding the rythm I think I found the lost chord .Or should that be "lost cause"

Grats to the podium, looking forward to meeting you all again at Nurbs . I have already ordered my tight leather shorts ,long socks , fancy braces, and a 2ltr beer stien for the post race celebrating.   
        

Mum?  Thats for you posh gits , its Ma where I come from  ::)

made a complete mess of it got lapped a few times struggled with the car when moving out of the way when getting lapped i either clipped the grass or span out when letting off the gas  and for the next race ill think ill drive the safety car stay out of every bodys way

Dennis, perhaps you should have a go with another car like Cooper or Ferrari which I find much more forgiving than Honda... Or its maybe just the setup that doesn't give you enough confidence?

Please feel free to share your conundrums with the group, I'm sure we can help somehow :)

Kruger

I wouldnt recommend changing track position when being lapped , the best method is to keep on the "usual" line and perhaps slow (lift off the gas ) a little , but avoid sudden and unusual manouvers , hard braking,  etc.

If your losing control when lifting the throttle It would suggest you are using a set up designed more for an alien than a humanoid. Also the Honda is known to be tail happy which wont help your cause , as Kruger says a diffent car should help. Cooper, Ferrari , or Eagle are very pleasant to drive as they are much more forgiving to drive  , esp the Cooper 

What differential ratio and clutches do you currently using ? The correct choice of diff is vital for smooth car control. as are suspension rates and heights , bump rubber settings and front/rear roll bar ratio's.

Why not post your current settings here and we can perhaps make suggestions 
which would hopefully help you to better drivng .

Having said all that Monaco , Zandvoort and the coming soon  Nurburgring are not the tracks of choice for learning about GPL car physics and car control.

We all want you to improve so you can better enjoy the GPL experience .

 :)
 
 

We've all been there m8 so don't worry too much.  :) I remember my 1st season in GPL and WOW what an eye opener. lol I managed to speak to a friend who pointed me to http://www.sim-replays.de/ (http://www.sim-replays.de/)

These set ups helped me a lot to lower my GPL Rank and get used to the cars but the only thing that I would really change is the brake bias. I personally started at 56 and now I'm becoming more confident (after 4years  ;D) I'm now at around the 52 mark. Like Bernie said though, try a different car. I chose the Eagle but the Fezza is a nice one and also the Cooper.

You will definately improve and we all want you to so don't get too disheartened.  :)

As a recovering Honda driver from last season ( the therapy works...sort of, with the odd relapse) I would say that there are far more friendly cars to use.
The Honda is an awesome beast when tamed ( I never did!!) but is very tail heavy and prone to melt the rubbery round things on the corners when pushed, unless you have alien DNA.

As others have suggested the Ferrari or Cooper, although not necessarily the outright quickest in the stable, will perhaps give you more predictable control and less time off track. Bear in mind that each excursion costs you about 20 secs, sooo...if you are only a second a lap slower but do not leave the tarmac you might gain a lot of time :O))) easier said than done i know but infinitely more possible in a cooper of Fez than in the Honda.
If you really want to suffer the pain and anguish of the Honda and its foibles, I can maybe offer some advice and setups for you to try.
Let us know what causes your loss of control...understeering straight on under braking?  back end coming around under acceleration? sudden spinning or snapping from understeer to oversteer mid corner? Whilst there are not abolute cures for these probs there are tweaks that will lessen the tendancies.
Don't give up, all it takes is practice...and a good psychiatrist!!  :0))
evil

I know where your coming from Dennis.  You stuck with it longer than me.  I was having a bad day from the start (and not just on GPL  :'().

understeering straight on under braking?  back end coming around under acceleration? sudden spinning or snapping from understeer to oversteer mid corner?

Yep, I just about get all of those in on 1 lap.

I think my next step will be to concentrate on the Cooper and stick with that for a while, I just think I'm getting somewhere and zap, that'll be the barrier again.  Can't say as I'm relishing the thought of the Nurburgring, but maybe I wont get lapped at that one, but wouldn't count on it.

Anyway, just to say your not alone.

Just a small observation from me: as I watch replays, I noticed from many drivers, particularly the newer ones, that they release the throttle entirely during braking.

This causes rear wheels to lock out during braking and the car starts to wiggle causing you to lose control.

Leaving some throttle on, blipping the throttle or managing your downshifts in a better way will keep the rear wheels spinning and you will have better control under braking. Once perfected, this technique will provide for better and later braking and will inevitably give more confidence to the driver.

Just something to keep on your mind :)

Ive been downloading settings off the internet and taking it from there ,but some setups just don't feel right ,i think most of them are how the driver drives and what feels right to the driver. Ive only been playing gpl for 6 months and from other Sim racing games manly motor bikes,iom tt,motogp 3, gp500it is a differant kettle of fish .iam getting used to braking with a bit off throttle to take the pressure off the clutch to prevent the back end from locking up [just like on a bike]and turning it in before the bend and getting the power on but it is a very fine line to get it right and crashing .so iam going to try the cooper next to see how i get on with that,and thanks for all the support guys i realise its my first season learning new tracks so i will perceiver learn the tracks learn to drive and be consistent thanks for the input guys

Doing this is key to getting more control and better laptimes - it was a revelation when I started dailing in some throttle under braking. It also allows you to push the brake balance back towards the rear, which helped me too (it allows you to brake harder).

Not a problem Dennis.

Glad to hear it.  ;D

Left foot trail braking is for aliens and hot lappers 

A sound solid set up is what you require, to do steady fast'ish laps .

I would suggest you try 85/30 diff with 3 or 4 clutches to begin with , ride height at 2.75 or 3.00 with 1.25 to 2.00 bump stops.

Set the brake balance forward to 56 0r 57

High roll bar setting gives stability , but too high and you slide around too much ,make sure the front roll bar is set higher than rear by 20% or so

Make sure you use positive toe in on the rear wheels (higher number helps the car to steer straight going too high slows the car down )

Using these settings gives you a car which naturally pushes (understeer) which means its stable and easy to drive , when you get better and more confident then you can try looser settings .     

Thanks for this input guys it's all useful stuff.  I think I need to turn back to basics and stop trying to run before I can walk, so to speak.  Get better on track time then look at pushing for more speed.  It just gets frustrating being at the back and whatever you try seems to get you nowhere.

Now, if I could lose 2 wheels, drop in a 800cc engine and pop on a couple of knee sliders I might just get around quicker  ;)

One more thought - the old adage "slow in, fast out" makes a massive difference: perversely, you feel like you are going slower and you end up with faster lap times! Focus on your exit speed, not your entry: late braking is where the last of the time is made (and I can't do it anyway). Watch the Alien replays for the line too: that also helps (just ignore where they brake ;)).

Hi guys, qualifying went well, was looking good for 3rd on grid, when last minute i was down to 5th, so still wasnt too bad in the cooper anyways.
I got up to 4th at start when someone went off at 1st corner from then on really i was trying to keep up with leaders but this was proving very tough, in the cooper vs the eagles up front, even worse when Will was doing 1:24s perhaps he should be in masters :P

I had one coming together at 1st corner defending the inside line and went off, so i did a reset there but decided to carry on thinking it wasnt my fault. Finshed the race 4th, maybe i could of got 3rd but it was tough to try and overtake. In all not bad race.

The race report is now published.

Kruger