SimRacing.org.uk

All members welcome.

Practice: 20:15 (10 mins)
Qualifying: 20:25 (10 mins)
Race: 20:35 (39 laps = ~80 mins)

Track: Watkins Glen (GP)  (download here (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3358.0))
Cars allowed: Any GTC76 plus GT40.
Time of Day Setting: 19:00
Start: STANDING
Pit Stops: You must make a minimum of one pit stop during which you must take on at least 1 litre of fuel or change your tyres. You cannot take your mandatory stop at the end of the pace lap, or with less than 1 lap to go.

Server: UKGTL Classics Cup
Password: see above (#post_event_password)

Notes:
(1) It's best if all drivers can make sure they are connected before the Qualifying session as drivers on track during qualifying will not see cars that join after they are on track until they go back to the garage.
(2) Please make sure you are fully aware of the SimRacing.org.ukRules (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3349.0).
(3) The season will be run using the UKGTL Skin Pack 1.6.5.0 which will need to be installed prior to racing; please get it from the downloads page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3358.msg54518#msg54518).
(4) The AI control should be turned off so that you have control of the car at all times, including pitting. Your player file should therefore read
Autopit="0"
Force Autopit Off="1" // Forces autopit always off
No AI Control="1" // AI never has control over car

If you still finding pitting problematic, experience tells us that its less to do with positioning and more to do with approach speed. A slow approach to pit pit crew chief has proved most reliable.

(5) Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R;group=188;theme=5)

Shouldn't this be August 7th?

I might have entered something wrong along the line, its has been known ;) but no, the date is right here. The Enduro season kicks off in Argentina on the 7th and this is the second enduro event.

Ok, then the dates shown under the "Drivers and Standings" section are incorrect. That shows America then Argentina. Also then why has Watkins Glen appeared in the "forthcoming" schedule and not Buenos Aires?

The event dates in LM2i appear to be the wrong way round SbG...

When I look at it Le Mans looks like it will be the 1st enduro race. The 'Classics cup' also seems to be displayed in a muddled order.

Ta gents, think enduro season is right now? The sprints will be sorted after tonights testing (we just need to check some are ok). It might take a little longer as we haven't really firmed up end of season yet, its about 3 months away so no immediate panic :)

Oh my word what a track!!  :jumpjoy: Going to be a great race.

Just been spinning round (litterally as we were all in Panties) with Tony, Ade & Martin. Fantastic fun!

Cheers chaps.

p.s. Would the Mclaren be an option to run here?

Oh what fun we had, 4 panties together!!
Gonna miss this one as I'm on holiday.... gutted!!
For future reference.... taking the short cut, getting and serving a stop and go is slightly longer than going round the track properly!  ;D

Have fun guys!  :'(

29 laps? Is that right? 80/29 = 2.75. 2 mins 45 seems a bit pedestrian for these cars.

Hey Phil

Glad you survived.

Even I can get under 2 mins with some effort, I think the quick boys will be
doing 1.56 ish
If 80 mins is the norm, then 40 laps would seem appropriate.

Newbie question:
I have edited the .plr and I don't get auto pit, but when I go into the pit stall
it drops me to the garage screen, then I hit "drive" and I am in my garage
and have to drive rouns the sheds to et back onto pit lane.
Is this normal? or am I missing some pitting option?
Ta
Matt.

You were right to ask. No, that's not normal. Unless you were testing it in qualifying or practice(?). When you go to the pits mid race, it should bring up a clip board, where you decide what changes you want to make (i.e. more fuel/change tyres).

Thanks Legzy

Yes I was in practice. I've tried an AI race, and I get the clipboard
and the guys then change all 42 wheels (it seems like)
and take 120 secs before they ket me go. I have set nothing special
just 18 laps fuel, and I suppose they swap the tyres, have to see if I can control
what is done at a pit stop.

When the pitboard comes up use your up/down keys to select a subject i.e. body, tyres, fuel etc. Then use the left/right keys to select an option i.e. repair body, don't repair body. Also note that the fuel shown is the amount currently in your car and NOT the amount due to be added.
Hope this helps

I think this should be a 40 lap race. I'm doing almost 2:00 min laps in practise.

39 laps plus pitstop would make it pretty near bang on 80 minutes

TC

adjustments will be made...you have to keep it in mind that SBG sets these parameters.... and he can only test and set them going by his own pace.  :-*

......and his maths is chronic ;) Will do some testing in a GT40 and Vette, when in Rome and all that, to check that cheers TM.

And I have yet another problem...

The GT40 has stopped working. The model no longer appears in the game (in the spinny car thing when you choose it) and the game crashes whenever I try to use it. Which is going to make things rather tricky. *sigh*

Is that all of the GT40s?
There's a problem with the Team Prodigy one (same number as the TP 911) which stops it from showing up properly.

Race length now corrected to 39 laps. Go get those GT40's (reinstall  ???) Spadowski as its bang at home here, unlike the Vette which is a "tad" awkward. Can't see me dipping below 2 minutes in it though.

The GT40 is now working. Maybe I had the Prodigy one that doesn't appear selected. I don't know. But I asked a friend to send me his GT40 directory and it now works just fine.

So another crisis averted;) Don't necessarily want to race the GT40, but obviously if the game trying to load one causes it to crash, that's a bit of a problem on Thursday since I'm sure someone will be racing one.

Now I just have to decide what I AM racing. Any suggestions for a nice easy car to drive. Don't want the fastest, just the most fun to drive with limited ability:)

what times for the GT 40's?

906?

Beamer, 914

Just done a quick session of praccy online and got some times for ya!
GT40:     2.02.3
Escort:   2.00.6
Capri  :   1.57.7
Pantera: 1.58.4

Suprisingly even tbh, although I've never gelled with the Pantera, but the Escort is fun, as is the GT40.
Decisions, decisions!  :D

Ooh, I forgot about the GT40, I was thinking of taking the slow Beemer, 2:01.9 in that.  The Corvette is a nightmare round here for me, only tried the small block one, but can't crack 2:04, all of 0.8 faster than the 914  ???

Think this could be a 40-lapper (rather than 39), several people will be sub 2 mins; after a few laps I was 58 dead in the Pantera with race fuel. May as well fill up our 80 minutes!

914 is probably the easiest to drive in class but will probably be well short of pace on this fast circuit.
906 is probably the safe choice for this one (it's light, it's fast but not overpowered).

The 906 is the GTC-76 I've always used before because it normally seems to be the safe option. But I think my driving is improving so I'm really trying to get the hang of one of the other beasts.
2:02 is the quickest I've managed so far, but I can't remember which car that was in?!
I'll give that Beamer a try tonight Tony, cheers.  :)

Anybody up for some practice tonight..will be on there from around 1900 hrs.

anyone have any objections to me joining in here,not sure what to race at minute,most probably the crapi or 'scort methinks.

ooh,35+ laps should be a bit of a giggle, as long as my mind doesn't wonder.

Dave

Dave, our records indicate that you have not yet applied to join Team Prodigy, the world's greenest team. Is this an oversite on your behalf? Still it's not too late to remedy things and avert any unwarranted stress or anxiety. You may apply by pm to me within the next 24hrs to avoid any further embarassment.

Subtlety no required ;D

Er, Tony...you don't sell Double-Glazing do you? ;)

i would be honored to join team prodigy, my fee is quite reasonable ;-)

Dave

I shall give it a go. So far I'm enjoying the Capri, but I'll try the 906 later.

Calling all late nighters
Online praccy @ 10:30(ish) tonight, highest standards of gentlemanly conduct expected (not).

I might be late tonight, but if you're still on-line I'll come join you. We've got so-called friends coming round, don't they know Wednesday night is practice night?  >:(

Cor the nerve of some people eh? I think in such tricky social situations it is considered perfectly polite to practise whilst your guest's are visiting.

It's simple, You just start talking about your racing enthusiastically and when they are showing enough polite interest (it would be rude not to), you then SHOW them for an hour or two exactly what you've been talking about.  ;)

Oh yes, that would be perfectly acceptable behaviour

The Tomato might be a match for most of the Cwapris, did a low 57, in quali. But I don't use it much and fear 80 minutes would be pushing my luck in that beast. Might chicken out and take the GT40 as it looks like we might see a nice wide spread of cars :) Should be good anyways.

PantTearer for me I think even though I haven't driven her for ages, but it's the nearest thing to a Ferrari (even though it has an American engine!). Looking forward to this one - I just hope my internet has the same feeling this time :)

Good thing with it for an Enduro is that you have to drive it relaxed otherwise it will either blow or spin, so shouldn't be too stressfull for 80 mins (he says confidently!).

That 906 is a marvelous beast! It is SO FAST through the first sector, even with me at the wheel!

Is there anything for GTL like the Replay Analyzer for GPL? I'd like to see where I'm losing time.

Regardless, that 906 is fantastic! Looking forward to that.

And just to reiterate what I said on the server, my wife and kids might be going away tomorrow. If they are, I am still turning up for the race, but I might have to park it in the pits for a few minutes if they leave when I'm racing. So if you have labels on and see mine sticking up out of the pits for lap after lap, that's why.

Ok Steve, no worries.

Just didn't want to confuse anyone. It'd cost me a fair few laps, but I'd rather that than just not turn up.

Me too mate, you've had a harsh run of it of late!

Just a thought but mine disconnects if somebody calls me while i'm racing. I think it's a microfilter issue and luckily I don't have many friends since getting into GTL but to sort it I just unplug the phone and leave the DSL in on it's own. Stab in the dark and i'm sure you'd notice if the phone was ringing but it took me a little while to twig at first!

After the last two intense outings I can't wait for the race, and, as a man with impeccable taste I shall be in the lime green Capri-ghia. Seeya there  :fencing:

And it looks like the pesky woman is turning up to steal my family right around race time. Of course she is...

So I may actually wind up missing it if the timing REALLY sucks, which given how much practice I've put in will annoy me a very large amount.

Sounds like you're almost single ;D

GUys

I am having trouble knowing what lap I am on, some would say I have trouble knowing
what day it is as well, but that's another story.

got some helpful suggestions last night, tried setting display to
1600x1200 32bit instead of 16 bit as it was, made no difference.
will download the HUD mod from racesim.

Prob is, that whether I tick the boxes in options, set HUD on a wheel button
hit "2" etc etc  I never get a HUD, I think I get the little LCD display, but
it's to the right off screen without looking right.
IS this a common prob?

Thanks
Matt.

When I was "helping" last night I mistakingly thought it was the LCD display you were having a problem with. Just a thought tho, check your player name.plr file for a enable HUD setting.

Sometimes the LCD's are in odd places. However if you are in a car where it is visible you can cycle thru various options and in one of them it will display your current lap. I think (guessing) that you use the space bar to cycle thru the modes.

If you want to view the HUD from your cockpit view... the line in your PLR file (that Tony mentions) should read:
Allow HUD in cockpit="1"

Then once you've restarted the game & you're back in the cockpit, hit "2" & it should pop up.

LOL


GTL: Become a social leper!

My .plr  had HUD="0"
Now it is as below.

HUD="1" // 0=none, 1=Full, 2=Minimal (when enabled)
Minimal HUD="1" // Whether minimal HUD is included when cycling through HUDs
Minimal HUD Pos="0" // 0=left, 1=centre, 2=right

And I still cannot get a HUD, I have tried setting to 2 for minimal, high res cockpit
and anything else I can see, but it makes no difference. If I hit 2 while in car
it says "Screen capture saved" or somesuch the 1st time, after that hitting 2
does nothing. hitting 1 toggles virtual mirror. 3 does nothing i can see
4 also, 5 toggles the gear indicator, off, left , centre, right.

However, I have learned that I can use the mouse to move the seat back
and now I can see the lap number in the LCD display, though the lap time
is still out of view, is ok, all I want really is a lap counter so I know
when I need to pit, as there doesn't seem to be a low fuel warning
or a fuel gauge, it just coughs and then cuts out half way round the track.

So, I can sit further back, and use the LCD well enough. I would like
the ability to have a HUD on a wheel button, but it's not critical anymore.

Ta for all sugestions.

Matt.

Have you ticked the "Heads Up Display" box in Options-> Game, then assigned a "Toggle HUD" button in Options-> Controls-> Extra ?

Have you tried getting up really really close to the screen, tilting your head 45 degrees & squinting your eyes really hard while counting to fifty?

Yes Phil

Done that.

Tried that Legzy, I crashed lots, even while singing John Brown's body, and waving
my arms around like a helicopter.

Did you find the one Legzy showed in the plr file, that enables the hud in cockpit? Thats the one you need. The one you stated is a different one. Though you should see the hud in external views.

Ahhh

There is more than one.... Oh joy! thanks all, That's what comes of reading something
in one room and looking at files in another...

Now all is working,

Not able to race and show you all how it's done tonight.  :(....The results may be posted a little late too. have fun

Don't know what is it with Phil Gilliland and me, but I again can't join, GTL crashes while trying to load Phil. I've tried reinstalling , didn't help.

If it's not one thing it's another for me at the moment!

Went to grid and it was as if my throttle was jammed on at 10% - revs just slowly rising and no response from the pedal. I had time to ESC and get back to grid but it did the same thing again. I thought maybe it would come alive when the lights went green but... no. Stalled and created a road block. Really so sorry to whomever it was directly behind me coz they couldn't avoid me :(  - really sorry!!

Anyone had that happen before cuz I certainly haven't?

Also, is the GhostSpeed Pantera no longer in the pack 1.6.5? When I tried joiing with it, it said car not present.

Damn, I was really looking forward to that too :(

The racing gods aren't with me this year!!
Hope you all have a good race I look forward to readin about it... thats as close as I get to racing these days lol

No worries dude, should've avoided ya really, made a bit of a hash gambling you'd take off slowly but didn't quite work out.

Suspension knackered after the carnage making the rear like it was on ice...drove on until pit window but was all over the show...apologies Mr Blommert/ Ade and PR I think it was, should've retired then in hindsight.

Came in after a tank slapper which saw me launched over the barrier by the fast chicane. Did pick up a lovely ice cream at the amusements though before making my way along the footpath into the back of the pits. Made the decision to sort suspension but not body - was a little surprised to find the handling was still like a Cobra on roller skates and it was another few laps before I eventually crash tested the Capri at the chicane to it's demise.

Have had some cracking racing of late so was bound to happen sooner or later...Dan, where you get that extra second from every race I'll never know, anyway i'll say no more as it's only just past half distance  ;D

Commiserations Tony on an unlucky one, all point scoring hopes on you Spanner....no pressure of course  ;D

Cheers as always organiser types   :thumbup1:

Very bad luck Bara, you really are cursed at the mo.  :(

I was going to ask 'what the...is so difficult about starts?', since that was an utter shambles, but I guess it may all have been started with Bara's problems, so shouldn't judge.

Still, cars everywhere, tried to tiptoe through but couldn't avoid so damaged the car and that was really it, had to limp round with a damaged front splitter so balance all to pot, understeered off a couple of times, also caught out by a Capri's slower entry (sorry, in the heat of the moment I can't remember who) and couldn't avoid contact.  Waited and we both ended up almost plumb last.

Finally pitted early in the pit window for about 3 days and the car was so much better, but not much racing going on where I was in 17th, and then did the 'letting the leaders through and running off track' and gave up.  >:(

That's the last time I purposely take a much slower car for a laugh, it wasn't fun at all.

But the dusky start time was a winner again, nice.  :)

Same as Steve. Waste of time really. Not blaming you, Bara - just bad luck.  :(

Well that was a complete waste of a weeks practise. Thanks to whoever it was who caused the start mayhem carnage. Expect a incident report as soon as I've watched the replay.

Sorry to hear your issues again Baracus  :(
Race went well with only one batlle, but it was bloody enough  :D
The 911 in the right hands can be deadly fast, great driving Mark Mclean, for 25 laps
your Porsche was filling my rear window  :helpsmilie: we did several corners
side by side without toutching each other  :yes: once again, great driving and fairplay Mark.
Well done Madd-RIP, excellent pace. Well done Dan, for two occasions i tried to follow you,
but i couldnt as you were driving faster than me.
Cheers

Yep tough break Bara, I think we are all prepared to risk those type of things with flying starts.

First apologies to Madd for baulking him in qualy, sorry but it was my flying lap as well :-\ Got booted near end of quali anyways and decided to come back in the panty as the Gt40 wouldn't have got me anywheres. Great fun coming though pack with standout stuff with Dave (no talking in race remember mate, even though I dying to type lol as well ;)) and Phil. Ruddy messy Italians forgot my fuel at first pitstop so I had to make two which lost me a place to Phil but thats good cause he did well to push the 911 around there. Good stuff.

Kinda relieved that start was one of those things as standards I encountered were excellent again. Congrats to Team RVS, including guest driver Stew ;), and PR.

very sorry about the chat SbG, but i couldn't resist.

superb,i was a bit taken aback with the start though,very messy, i had to do some emergency avoiding tactics to 'avoid ploughing into the carnage.

as SbG mentioned,excellent racing between myself and SbG,the panty was just to powerful on the straights, but i could reel him in on the curvy bits.

then,after i pitted,i changed all 4 tyres and added 20 laps of fuel and it handled like a rally car of mud,no grip on the rear at all. very strange.
 not really sure if the endurance stuff is my forte,but a bit of practice and i'll get there

Dave

I'm sure Phil was in standard skin again Syd so that doesn't make any sense to me  ??? Might be something up with your pc, maybe hardware related? We must be able to work this out.

The promise of a good event disapeared after a crap qually. Never got a gap then my last lap i drifted too wide at the last corner and got a cut warning which wiped the lap. This meant i started in the wrong place to avoid the start line carnage which spun me around to end up last with one headlight. Then just plugged away and worked my way up to Ade and seemed to get a better drive up the hill from the hairpin after going past Newboy Steve and managed to get past. managed to build a little gap before pitting then came out in 13th but again managed to catch Ade then closed on Gardo but he span on the main straight which caused a minor heart attack before managing to get by. Which meant i ended up a knackering 9th.

The track and car combi really worked, its just a shame I couldnt get higher.

Seems like a few people were all having similar trouble with there
untrained pit crews. Mine have all been sacked

Start was carnage as commented. I almost managed to stop before
tapping the cars in front who had crashed into Bara, then got rammed
mightily from behind by it seemed the rest of the field, got bounced around
the track some, finaly got going near last, car was welll bent, driving
like it was on 3 wheels, limped round, with some ice driving practice
in 2.01 at best, pitted as early as I could at around lap 12, nutter
on the fuel can forgot to fill it, and, just to add insult to injury
the daft x"£$%^ managed to knock my pit speed limiter off
and before I could put it back on, collected a stop and go
served that, couldn't put fuel in, so went out thinking
with nice new tyres and all fixed car i could do some
decent laps.. oh dear oh dear, car wanted to go clockwise all the time
brake bias felt 90% to the rear, car would not power out of right
handers, spun twice or went off into fence trying to pass people
as i caught a couple.. went off in the loop trying to let a leader by..

As already stated, a waste of a weeks practice.

I had the throttle thing happen once in GTR2, had to
restart game to fix it.

 ;D Well first of all grats to Dan on a sub 1.57 lap, in praccy I almost got there but the swine beat me to it!
Don't worry about it Ian I was a little miffed  :'( but 2nd was the best I could have got tbh so 3rd was not really a problem.

As for the race well, seeing Bara stutter at the start it was a case of follow my team boss!  :D , just couldn't get that last 0.1 of a second to creep up on him, it was hard enough to stay in touch but he slowly eked out a gap, and I had my mirrors full of Mike and Pribeiro squabbling and chasing me, although I too slowly pulled away from them once I got into my rhythm.
After the initial scraps it was a case of being consistent and carefully lapping the backmarkers, my pitstop went fine (for a change) and left in 7th and started to chase down the others in front, had a little moment when trying to pass Tinman on the outside but apart from that it went well until Dan started to pressurize me in the closing laps, finishing a mere 0.16 seconds behind for a Ferrari- esq photo finish!

Grats to Pribeiro for 3rd too.

Bad luck Bara sounds like the gremlins are on your case at the mo.
Great race with the usual stupid mistake from myself.... Pb in qually and managed to get a 4.5 sec lead over Matt before the pitstop. Pitted and just as i hit the enter button i realized that i had put no fuel in  ::) >:(   Came out in around 8th just in front of PR but knew a few peeps still had to stop ,  pitted again a fueled up and went on a charge,  had a bit of luck when a couple people let me through as they didnt know they were fighting for position ( i think) thanks anyway  ;D    Managed to catch Matt with one lap to go but he was making no mistakes and we finished 0.016 apart !!

Grats on the win Matt and PR on 3rd. Big points for Team RVS yahay!! :)

Cheers

Oh man I feel even worse now :(

Can't appologise enough. You can all give me a virtual kicking in the bar, or a real one if you can find me.

I will know next time to just ESC out before the lights go green. I HATE COMPUTERS SOMETIMES!!

I had an awesome race. After being hit twice in the first three laps last time I decided to take it really easy at the start this time to avoid any carnage. I wasn't expecting it to be on the grid. It was like the Austrian GP in 1987!!! Cars everywhere! Amazingly picked my way through undamaged. Then going up through the esses there was another incident, which I again survived!

Made a few stupid mistakes, mostly changing down too early and the wheels locking making me spin, but I had a fantastic time out there. Highlight was the opening few laps as I had a good few clean fights. Then at the end I was catching 14th who was a lap ahead of me. Didn't want to mess up his race, but I was being chased down for 15th so had to push.

I loved it.

Oh my word! Where to start? Managed to find 0.5 of a sec off my PB in qually on my 1st flying lap!  :eek: Which meant I was going to get my highest ever place on the grid.
Lost the front right side of the car in the startline pile up which meant I was down to one light, but it was handling OK so kept going thinking I'd maybe make an early stop to repair. But laptimes kept coming down & I started to catch the people who got ahead during the pile up. Caught up with Geoffers at the top of the hill round the right-hander & was set to attack him out the left-hander as I dropped into what I thought would be 2nd gear. Turned out to be 1st gear & I spun myself. :-[ But managed to recover it well & avoided the walls.
Was pretty dull going from then on as it was just a case of lapping consistently till.....

I came out of the pits in 6th with six laps to go. Ginsters came straight past me & Geoffers was immediately up my 906's backside going up the hill. We spent the final six laps  :fencing: swapping position & trying to get away from each other. I had the edge on breaking & initial acceleration out the corner, but then the roar grunt power of Geoffers Capri & his driving skill meant that he'd catch me/take the lead leading into the next breaking zone.

It was amazing experience for me & I was quite litterally driving by the seat of my pants at the limit. It was summed up in our final lap when we swapped position no fewer then eight times!!! :o  ;D  :surrender:

Geoffers, it was fantastic fair driving on your part right through & lets keep stum on what happened coming out of the 3rd last corner :whistling:

Shame about the start, but what a race it turned into anyway. Congrats to all finishers.

replay etc up above

1st of all, sorry Team RVS for using your skin. Only re-installed game 10 mins b4 race, so no cars on my system, and your was the 1st one I came to. 2nd, sorry to anyone I held up, had never driven the circuit until the race started, so was learning all the while. But not doing qualli help in a way because it meant I was not involved in start mess, just drove around it ;D.  Gratz to podium, look forward to doing it again in a month when I come back off course again :(

Well.....just watched the replay of the start.....what a mess eh!

All sympathy to Bara and the one or two cars in close proximity behind him...totally unavoidable and unfortunate...a bad aspect of sim racing that cant be helped.

Some great driving by a few people lower down the grid to see the dangers and react, take safe evasive manouvers etc....Dave Gardiner's controll, restraint and sensibillity takes note as something to be jealous of...special mention also to Micheal Cooper and Steve Parsons....That is the way to drive off the start and avoid incidents.

Some others aproaching from behind the incident.....well, all I can say is look closely at the replay and make your own minds up  ::)...Basically in my book...if you stay on full throttle when it's obvious that there are incidents ahead and end up ploughing into folk, ruining your own race and other peoples....you then deserve anything bad that happens to you....unfortunately though it's generally the poor sod you hit that suffers more.....so I am going to get tougher on this aspect of the racing from now on.....Tonight was a classic example of why standing starts are not good.....people just dont seem to learn and keep doing the same thing week after week.

I will now be reviewing every start....and handing out the most severe punishments available to me for repeat offenders.  >:(

Thank you very much for the compliment.

Dave Gardiner's controll, restraint and sensibillity takes note as something to be jealous of...special mention also to Micheal Cooper and Steve Parsons....That is the way to drive off the start and avoid incidents.

thank you for the kind words,much appreciated.

i can never understand,and don't take this the wrong way,but why do people have the must be at the front by the first corner syndrome, it happens everywhere,i know everyone wants to do well,but in an endurance event especially, yes,start fast but try and give a little respect to other drivers.

just my 2c worth.

ps,loving the racing here

Dave

Hrmm, don't know if the rules were changed after my suggestion, but it seems like people are getting championship points when they shouldn't be.

I may have missed it, but are retirees supposed to be getting points as well, or will it be edited by the end of the season?

Are you simply going to repost this after each race? :P

Retirement has never been a cause for not getting points - the rules don't define 'retirement' or make any reference to it.

What will you do? Drive slowly from the start? Something similar happened to Baracus yesterday, right? Carnage. :(  Le Mans was worse. When all the cars start going fast you have to go with them (unless you're at the back and you can afford going slow) or you cause the carnage.  >:( 

Why don't we have the same procedure in GTL as in GTR2? It's possible in the same way, when the game says go, Leader starts a warmup lap, single file, nice and easy, pit-limiter in the last few hundred meters, go after s/f line. End of story.  :(  I spent some hours trying to make the setup here and even if I didn't set the fastest laptimes I expected a good race here. As it was I hit the guy in front who hit the guy in front.  :(  You can't avoid it and if you slow down you get hit from behind. Something needs to be done, obviously software/hardware/ISP problems can and do cause standing starts to be the obstacle to extended racing.  :(

After my car took damage I spent 125 sec in the pit, was 1 lap behind everybody and the car was not fixed completely. Got understeer, could not turn right very well and power sliding had the preferance to instantly oversteer. After visiting sand for several times I quit as I was dangerous to other drivers.  :(   

 :-X :-X :-X

TT

I feel that we are certainly heading in that direction.

Yes dammit I am! It add's a dynamic to the endurance races, instead of it just being a longer "run-of-the-mill" race. Makes it a bit more satisfying to actually finish the race to earn your points, instead of just quitting out and only losing maybe one or two points based on your position. Would also create a more interesting battle on paper, methinks.


Doesn't have to change for Sprints, but maybe to liven up endurance a bit?

Agreed. Its odd to see people who argued for rolling starts then complain when something like this happens. I was one but I am now almost convinced, after last night, that we must change. Is it fair to lose all that pracci time and miss out on the fun for the "romance" of standing starts?  

Just one thing. I don't think the GTL cars have pit limiter lights, will present UKGTR rolling starts still work?    

This is hardly failsafe either, as there has been tons of PRE-RACE incidents with warmup laps. Just look at the report for Valencia in the GTR2 Lower Endurance race - places 13 down to 25th were ALL affected by a screwup, and this is even before a competitive lap. How is this any better? In alot of cases this is much worse to potentially have your race ruined before it even starts.

Accidents are going to happen - period. Bara's mistake was a PC problem - if you want to roleplay it, he had a mechanical failure - this happens in racing. I don't beleive a rolling start is going to solve any problems. It just makes for boring racing in alot of ways.

But to each their own I guess, and this argument will never end.

Don't see why not Ian, spose we could use headlights instead....turn them on when you engage the limiter and off when disengage?

 ???  How is this any better  ???  In 8 GTR seasons I had maybe 5 ruined starts. In GTL - not sure - 10 ? (this season + fun races) races: 3 ruined starts.  :(

Engaging pit-limiter would work in GTL if you get brain/passion ballance right.  :-\  I'm sorry, but I'm not very GTL friendly right now.  :(

TT

Fully agree with you there....Bara's misfortune was definately nobody's fault and can happen at any time in sim racing....but, whilst that was the initial cause of last nights problems, the vast majority of accidents that happened after it were all pretty much avoidable.
It would not have happened like that with a rolling start....for one the initial 'coming to a virtual standstill' to avoid barra wouldn't have happened and there would have been better seperation between the rest of the following pack....the majority would in fact still have had the limiters engaged.

The incident at Valencia in GTR2 was a rareity....the vast majority of GTR2 starts go very smoothly and generally incident free.

What I'm trying to point out is that these mistakes will not be avoided with rolling starts either, as if you read the Valencia report, the engaging of the pit limiter caused a 12 car Mess up. I've seen and avoided plenty of fender benders in warmup laps back in season 2/3. Unfortuately accidents will always be a part of this game. :/

Ahh I can't believe we're looking at rolling starts again.

I know we've had this over and over but do it and we'll lose a key moment in the race, for me at least. I love the fact I have to practice my starts, and that moment on the grid before we sidestep the clutches is fantastic, trying to get the power down. My gut feeling too is we'll have the same if not more cock-ups doing a procession lap and having to be concerned with formation and the limiter. We could do it I'm sure but I'd really rather not.

This isn't happening every race, just come down hard on anyone driving like a pratt so there's a very real incentive to take care. If incidents still happen then that is not far from the reality of racing. I was as gutted as anyone to have wasted all that practice but it's a roller coaster ride over the course of a season, the lows make the highs that much higher, and the determination that much stronger at the next one (cue dramatic music).

I understand the frustration, and it's worse if it's actually stupid driving that causes the problems but we do everything we can to make this as close to a simulation as possible, to then move away from what happens in real life is taking away from the game in my opinion. I don't know any other leagues who have such numpties in their ranks that they have to apply the stabilisers to protect their members...we're supposed to be of a fairly decent standard aren't we -the GRC dude said so!?  ;)

The summary version - punish the wallies and let the rest of get on with our races.

Fair comment....So long as 'the rest' report the 'wallies' .....whilst my views count, I am unwilling to take on the responsibillity of reporting every incident myself....especially when I didn't even race.

Maybe its time for us to pull together more and the 'rest' help weed out the ones spoiling things for all.

There are a lot of points to agree - except for the last one: you can't punish Baracus to have technical/software/hardware/ISP problems, can you? And that really started the accidents yesterday. This can be avoided by rolling starts, though I can understand that if we ditch standing starts the historic romanticism looses the key moment.  :-\  

I guess there's a difference in looking at it - meaning "Why do you race in GTL?". I seek good racing, be it GTR, GTL or rFactor while the Brits majority take into it the historic factor. Strongly.  ;)  Which is important, of course. The importance of it varies though and for me it looses against wanting to have a good racing for the whole period of the race - and that means a safe start.  :)

If this is more a nostalgic trip into the past then by all means lets have standing starts.  :)  I will probably take this as fun events and will avoid quali session. Watch me going past your wrecks.  ;D

TT

Lol no, my fault, "wallies" is a bit general. I'm referring to people who cause problems with their lack of care and attention not PC malfunctions that could happen to any one of us - I'm on about bad driving. Bara can stay lol  ;)

I hear you TT but it's more than historic romanticism, it's about the challenge, the competition that is getting off the line better than your fellow racers, as well as being as accurate a simulation of the real thing as possible. It's awesome heading into T1, when there's a little care obviously.

I race in GTL for the thrill of those close racing moments, trying everything to beat people in practice, in qually, off the start line to T1 and throughout the race to the finish line. I believe I can be trusted with a throttle pedal so I'd like to use it as God intended.

Had a new PB qualifying, pleased with my grid position.  This week couldn't thread through the spinning cars - the gap I was heading for closed and that was it.  Worked up to 15th before my pitstop but from there it went downhill 2 mins odd I think for repairs etc.  Came out 18th I think and then profitted from people dropping out.  Finished 15th - 2 laps down.

Sorry SBG you were fortuneate that some track lighting caught you just in time for me to see you and jump out of your way.

Bill

 Ps I prefer standing starts particularly now I have a G25

Yep, definitely up for that.

oh crap,lol now look what i've gone and started,i didn't want a mass debate ,??? lol
all i was saying was that start line pile ups should be few and far between.  i much prefer standing starts because i actually practice them to get it right,cos to get the power down better than anyone in front of me is a bonus for me in racing.

plus i'd probably cause more accidents in a rolling start as i have literally never done them.

sorry for any upsets

About the starts...

The only times we've had real problems at the start of a race was with the GTC-TC-76 cars which have more power and are harder to find the correct revs with. The only thing that makes standing starts dangerous is people not practicing them.
As I've said before I make a point of practicing standing starts before each race. I've even said how. I've never had a crash on the start grid unless someone spins 180^o in front of me.

BTW, the GRC uses standing starts and hasn't had any problems so far.

Lol, getting power down better than anyone in front of you will surely get you in trouble if anyone in front of you has an accident.  ;D
I had a good start yesterday and when the cars in front started to get pushed around I could do nothing - I couldn't stop in time and if I did I'd get punted from behind.  :wacko:  Maybe you must be lucky to get through the start procedure but I used all my luck to be born.  :whistling:

TT  

We tend to have a good gathering on the Wednesday late night practice which is always rounded off with a few races. It's a great opportunity for fun driving with other humans, but fantastic practice for perfecting your starts!!!
All welcome, see you next Wednesday night.

The pedal does come back up again dude!  ;D

Having calmed down and now having watched the replay I see that Baracus's problem was not caused by bad driving and so I will not be reporting. It seems that it was "one of those things". Tough break pal. Hope you get it sorted by next time. In fact I was as guilty as anyone for the multiple incidents after the start as it seems that I failed to react to what was happening in front of me. I think I had a "rabbit in the headlamps" moment. Sincerest apologies to everyone who's race may have been spoilt by my actions. Feel free to file a report against me.

"Lol, getting power down better than anyone in front of you will surely get you in trouble if anyone in front of you has an accident. 
I had a good start yesterday and when the cars in front started to get pushed around I could do nothing - I couldn't stop in time and if I did I'd get punted from behind.    Maybe you must be lucky to get through the start procedure but I used all my luck to be born. "

not to blow my own trumpet, but if you watch my start i was way down the grid behind all the commotion and i managed to avoid the mess,if i got hit from behind thats their problem,as in real life,if the car behind hits you,it's their fault,no questions asked, you can't say that you didn't want to brake too hard in case someone else hit you.

all i'm saying is that if you keep a level head and just keep an eye on those immediately in front and to you side,NOT those behind you then you should be good to go.

i know it is very frustrating to get hit from behind,but,like i said,i practice my starts a hell of a lot with the ai,i know they're not human,but they are fairly unpredictable too.

sorry for rambling on.

 :notworthy:

why thank you Ruskus, i am not worthy though lol

sorry i missed last nights race. not made a single GTL event for about 6 or 7 weeks now  :'(

Im with Mr Oilly, on everything he's said for keeping Standing starts. The buzz/thrill and atmosphere of sitting on the grid with 20 odd other classic race cars waiting for the lights is one of the highlights of our gtl races. 8)

 Jeez it took us long enough with plenty of debate to get them re-instated. Punish the mayhem causers...hard! Its the only way to force people to think before they plunge their right foot to the floor on the startline and spin around into someone or take out 3 other cars at t1.
I would be as draconian as to either demote them to the back of the grid at the next race by excluding them from setting a qually lap or a 1 race ban. If we all know whats at stake, we cant complain if we cause the chaos. (unless replays prove it really wasnt their fault).

Just my sixpence worth  ;)

Quick addition to earlier now I've watched the replay a few times
There are two phenome, phenomen, umm, "interesting points" here

1: What someone sees on their screen is not always the same as in the server replay
at a particularly high lag scenario like a big standing start.

2: The further back from a start line incident you are, the faster you are traveling
when you become aware of it.

For point 1 - On the server replay I seem to brush up the right side of Oily, and slow
for no apparent reason, as Bara has teleported back to the pits by then
(he did escape pretty quickly)

What I actually saw was a green and white capri set off, then dive to the left revealing
a half sideways parked red car. Too close to drive round it, and I make slight contact with
something, I thought the capri, then the red car dissapears, and I get spun across the track
by Truetom, who had made an effort to slow, and ends up driving along the wall.
He is a victim of point 2. Legzy follws him - more point 2, Wiltshire Tony comes along
even faster - yet more point 2, and so on.

Of course when you are far enough back you have some limited opportunity to evade/avoid
but those 2 or 3 rows behind the incident are going to find it very tough.

It seesm everyones arguing about rolling starts when this was one off, Its wasnt a problem with not practising the start or being able to control the power its was a seperate issue, pc related therefore we need to accept that and move on.

Having not seen the replay, but from my point it was a case of driving into a huge cloude of smoke and not knowing what was going to happen. I like to run with all the graphical niceties on, so am i being penalised for it?. Either you brake and get hit from behind or you drive into someone. That situation is hardly a common occurance so you can hardly critise people for a spur of the moment split decision as to what to do, I would hate to see people being judged from this. Its a bit different from calmy looking at the replay and see ing it from different directions then making a decision.

At the end of the day chaps, this is not really about any particular incident from last night...but more about the way some drivers approach the whole start procecure.

Last night is quite a classic example though.....The initial incident unfortunately involved 4, possibly five cars and was imo unavoidable and just one of those things that happen.

However the initial incident got worse and worse as more cars came ploughing in.....From almost any position on the grid (and I have looked at it from every drivers on board shot) the initial incident was reasonably visible....(smoke and bits of car parts flying around up ahead)....so everyone had at least some warning that there was an incident and caution needed to be taken. Some took the required measures, ie slowed, prepared themselves for eveasive manouvers...and some didn't....foot to the floor all the way untill hitting something slowed them  :) The few that seemed to 'bail in' (for want of a better way of putting it) proceded to then hit both cars from the initial incident and drivers ahead that were slowing due to it.... ??? If you did that on the M6 you would probably be dead.....if you did that in a real world race you would be a lot of money out of pocked...possibly dead or seriously injured...and almost definately banned/fined/penalised for ignoring yellow flag conditions etc..

It shouldn't be any different here imo.

Well said Pseud.

Its not 'Days of bleeding Thunder' for heavens sake  ;D

this is what i don't really understand,why oh why do people do this,if there's a crash on the road aheaad,you lift off or slow down enough to avoid any involvement. should be the same in online,but folk have the" it's only a game" attitude which can sometimes lead to others disappointment.

i wish i hadn't bothered mentioning it now lol

On the contrary, it needs to get fixed, and the only way to do that is to discuss it and to act.

So....mmm... so you advocate that in the event of someone hitting you up the trumpet at any point, then spinning into a wall we can all bus it round to their house and break their lower limbs.... as that would be what happens in real life and it should be no different here ... well Im up for it, do I bring my own baseball bat!!

Aaaaaaaaade, the leash man, the leash!  ;D

Sorry!!! Get back in that kitchen woman.

Your legs are first my little gobby one!

I think Logitech should fit all their wheels with airbags as standard.  ;D

Been watching Misery again?  ;)

I think she is Ade's ;D

I have seen a vest you can wear that makes you 'feel' the shots in a FPS game, think it was on the gadget show once. Maybe it could be adapted to to our 'special' use.

We can try to recreate the machines in Saw. I might just cause a T1 pile-up, just to see what happens ;D

I'm still a newb here so staying out of this debate because I feel it's not place to comment.

Suffice to say I'd be gutted if the standing start was down away with. I agree with those who say it adds to the atmosphere and excitement. I DESPISE rolling starts.

My credo in online racing has always been the old adage, "Races aren't won on the first lap, but they can be lost."

I'm still for standing starts :thumbup1: many a time in GTR2 if a car freezes or some one has problems it causes all kinds of mayhem not to mention folk going off on the formation lap :whistling:. Things can go wrong either way. (http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii60/oilyway/f1c5aa5159a53a628e5266e0b44569f4.gif)

I too am still in favour of standing starts. Last nights incident was a one-off caused by poor Bara's PC malfunction. These sort of things, although not last nights, can also happen on rolling starts. Someone could forget to disengage pit-limiter or momentary lag & it doesn't disengage & suddenly the car(s) behind has hit you. It is virtually impossible to stop if something happens just in front, all you can do is try & avoid a collision. Watch real racing, if someone stalls on the line or is slow at the rolling start, the only option for those behind is to jink to one side to try & avoid a collision, it is impossible to stop in time. And if you do manage to stop, the guy behind you won't!

I was lucky last night, cars ahead started spinning, so I braked but a gap opened & I accelerated through it & didn't hit anyone.

Most of the race was quite lonely, Dave Gardner, Ginsters & Tinman passed me early on then little happened until the last few laps when I had a great battle for 6th with Legzy. As he said we changed places several times until 3 corners from the end Legzy...oops sorry Legzy won't tell them what happened. Anyway I felt sorry for Legzy & drove steadily to the finish in two minds whether to let him have 6th. I thought if he catches me before the line he can have the place. But I reached the line without Legzy passing so came home 6th. Great driving though mate :thumbup2:

ROTFLOL

Superb anigif Ade! Guffaw

Just to say that I'm very sorry to you all for ruining so many folks race, wasting their practice time and being the trigger to this furore...
...but we gotta stick with standing starts for the excitement factor :)

We just need to modify the tracks to be double decker - that way I can have a road to myself hehe

Somebody (a moderator, I presume) has sent me a message inviting a report from me on the start line debacle - in which I was not directly involved. If said Moderator would like a reply would you please send another message with the "click here" reply button enabled?


TC

That was reported by a concerned punter, not one of us. I can reply to auto message with quote but, if thats not working for you, can you pm Pseudo or myself with your views. If you gents have time to look at start again and express your views it will help us reach the proper conclusions and be much appreciated, ta.

If you simply want to express your views on the start to the person who moderates the race, there's a link in the email/PM from the incident reporting system which will allow you to do so.

Unofficial Lapchart (http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/steveh/WatkinsGlenGTLEnduro/)

It don't work on the e-mail sent to me.


TC

This one? https://www.simracing.org.uk/lm2/index.php?action=increp&report=608&time=39 (https://www.simracing.org.uk/lm2/index.php?action=increp&report=608&time=39)

As if by magic - it now works. Report sent.

TC

Cheers Geoffers, I spotted in the replay that you hung round while I was sorting myself out. Thanks for that, but watching the replay, you earned the position. Your driving was of exceptional standard, me driving beyond my limits really made your job even harder & you did it brilliantly while driving like a gent. A pleasure to race.  8)

To answer all this rolling start/standing start nonsense please watch Race 1 and Race 2 of todays WTCC race

Priceless.

And they get paid for it too. We do it just for fun.

Biggest laugh was John Cleland blaming the track designer


Oilseal

Lol, I saw it. Carnage, even worse than ours.  :D  Standing starts stay.  ;)

*heads off to download WTCC race*