SimRacing.org.uk

UKGPL Season 16 - Pre-Season race - 65 mod - Spa-Francorchamps

This is a non-championship race which may be the curtain-raiser for both Season 16 and the new Beginner's division.  If you have problems installing the 65 mod, just post on the thread. If you haven't used the 65 cars before, be aware that though they're far easier to drive, they have no proper default setups of their own- you'll have to download one, or alter the gearing.  There are default setups available if you need one, just use the link below.      

Please be in IGOR UKGPL chatroom by 8:40 p.m.
(You will need to set up a channel called #ukgpl if you haven't already done so)
IGOR and Race passwords: see above

Server 3.ukgpl
IP address  87.194.135.42

Race date = 12-08-2008
Track =  Circuit National de Francorchamps
Variant = 65mod
Damage Model = Intermediate
Qually time = 30 minutes.
Race length = Long (10 laps)

Password: see above

Chassis assignments: please take a chassis commensurate with your experience.  If you intend to run in the Clubman's Cup in Season 16 (even if you will also enter D1), or if you have not raced with UKGPL before and intend only to race in the Beginner's division, use the Ferrari, Lotus, Brabham BT11, BRM or Honda.

Senior drivers should use either the Cooper or the Brabham BT7.

As I hope to run a team championship based on chassis it will also be helpful if drivers are distributed fairly evenly among the available chassis.

65 Mod
 
The 1965 season was the last to use the controversial 1500cc formula which had begun after 1960, to the initial advantage of Ferrari.  The 1965 cars are smaller than the 1967 cars and have less torque and hence more grip.  It was claimed that they 'cornered on rails', however this allowed the Grand Prix series to retain the use of circuits which were otherwise to prove extremely dangerous.

The 1965 cars are ideal for those new to GPL as they allow the tracks to be learnt in light reliable cars, however these are also full Formula One cars, and quite fast....  Jim Clark won the 1965 Belgian Grand Prix from in a Lotus.  Graham Hill took pole in his BRM P261 with a time of 3'45.4 .  The 1965 distance was 32 laps.

David Wright's 'Legends' site http://fp.gplegends.plus.com/ (http://fp.gplegends.plus.com/) has the download of the most recent 2.0.1 version (under 'details') as well as being an exceptional guide to both 1965 and 1967, for those interested in Formula One history.

Unfortunately the current 65 mod download does not have default setups.  Default setups for all the cars and tracks that are likely to be used can be downloaded from http://www.neurology-crew.com/gplserver (http://www.neurology-crew.com/gplserver) under '65 setups'.  Note that you will have to add enough fuel for the race, whether short or long!

is there some program for learning the track.
i found only GPL Track Trainer, but seems it is prepared only for Nurburgring.
i mean program where you can start racing from anywhere in track.
also
is there some utility to add Ghost lap doring training?

must improve in SPA

I believe that there is a utility that lets you start anywhere but I can't find it.  You can also hack at the track.ini to redefine your pit box.

I wouldn't do either for Spa.  It isn't long enough to be a problem and you need to do a lap for your tyres to be up to temperature anyway.

I used to just watch the AI when I encountered a new track but for 65s at Spa you would be better off downloading Steve Cloyd's lap in whatever car you want and just watch him.
http://gpladdicts.speedgeezers.net/

You get his lap and the setup that he did it with.

Damn I forgot Steve Cloyd had replays as well as set ups , Thanks for the reminder Clive as I seem to have hit a bit of a wall at 3:41.xx and was thinking of asking for someone to post me a replay to watch .

Paul

if anyone could explain me how ti send setups and replays , I could post my Ferri setup and extreme lucky Spa lap 1-39-65

regaards
NickyIckx

I think in this forum you have to host the files somewhere on your own web space then hyperlink to them.  Good lap :)

You can post them here, in the Soggy Bottom Race School, and link to them from this forum
http://forum.racesimcentral.com/showthread.php?p=3859905#post3859905

I cant seem to connect to the 65 server on igor.

I've been on the server a few times tonight and apart from my connection dropping once all has been fine  ???



Paul

 :)
here it comes : setup and replay , Ferrari65 at Spa

http://forum.racesimcentral.com/showthread.php?p=3860545&posted=1#post3860545

Good time Nicky.  I wanted to download it and see where you were going to overtake but I can't open a 7z file.  :'(

I'm in the mid 41s with the BT7 and a Steve Cloyd setup.

One thing to watch is that setups by SC are "Hotlap" setups.  He doesn't lift to change gear in either direction and at Spa I have always found that you have to be careful on the downshifts if you want the clockwork to stay in one piece for the whole race.  Stavelot is the main culptit in the 65s.  You have a mid-corner change down that will blow the engine if you haven't lifted enough.  The approach to Malmedy is another spot where the last minute downshifts can give the engine a zing if you are not careful.

Was thinking about that last night Clive , I would imagine he does his hotlaps with no damage as well as I noticed he pins the rev counter in nearly every gear .

Unfortunately my connection dropped me from the server again last night  :( Not sure if it's a settings problem or something else , anyone else running a wireless connection for racing online ? or am I going to have to get hold of 30 meters of cat5 cable  :o


Paul

You gota have wire!

Don't know of anyone who hasn't had trouble and given up on wireless.  I don't think it has the continuity required.

Thought that would be the answer after having a quick look over at RSC , Can't see the wife being impressed when I run a cable from the front hall , across the living room and up the stairs to the bedroom  ::)   ;D Hopefully have it sorted for Tuesdays race .


Paul

Had the same connection problem here , too much lag on wireless .

I managed to secrete the cable by routing it along the skirting board , over door frame, then to my upstairs loft conversion .

HID never looked twice at it since it was done  :)

 

 :)
@ Clive , thx , was a lucky lap to me . don’t wanna know what  those Alien`s laptimes are ,coz would make me feel old and rusty , hehe.

Well ,give 7zip a try , it could handle rar and zip etc. , works like charme.
http://www.7-zip.org/download.html


 :o
@ Screwcutter ,  by my knowledge , none online-gamer is using wireless stuff at all .
                             even wireless keyboard  and mouse  are not acceptable to them.

Hi,

I'm not new to racing GPL, or racing online, but I am new to racing GPL online. I haven't touched GPL for about two years but I've been racing in Live For Speed a lot so hopefully I will be able to behave myself!

Hopefully see you on Tuesday!

Welcome SC.

I can't keep track of you you all are these days.

What's wrong with using your own name is what I want to know.  (Says the brother of Galiesh Darksoul  :-[)

Nothing wrong with using real names (mine is Dave Southword btw) but I've always used that tag in LFS so I like to keep my online persona consistent.

Hi Dave,

Good to have you aboard.

I have added you to the UKGPL2008 grouping on GPLRank so you should be able to track what the rest of us are up to.

Nicky has posted the best time so far with a mid 3:39 in a Ferrari.  Evil has been off getting plastered all weekend so hasn't posted anything in the Cooper and my best effort in the BT7 is a mid 3:41.

I notice that you have a -12 rank in the 67s so you shouldn't have too much of a struggle with the 65s.

Good luck

Just to add my take on the wireless issue...I run wireless for all my online gaming and have no problems whatsoever with the wireless side of things...it works a treat with no additional lag to the cabled pc.  Bear in mind though that if you have more than one device connecting wirelessly to the access point that you may indeed have issues.  Like some one else in the family connecting to skype in the middle of a race!!!  What I do have a major issue with however is mobile internet, but - and hopefully this stays good for my racing this week - lately the connection seems to have improved a little. ::)

In case anyone is interested my current setup is on a Asus G1 notebook connected wirelessly to a wireless router (acting as an access point not a router) that is connected by cable to a PC that is doing internet sharing through a usb connected mobile internet modem...not your average setup I know...but it works... ;D

Having said all that I don't advise wireless if you have an alternative if you do use it make sure it's secure, I use WEP which although less secure has better compatibility with the kids PSPs and Nintendo DSs...Good luck!

See you all tomorrow night!
Jon

I got back from my weekend of debauchery, just in time for a DIV1 race at Oulton, and stayed concious just long enough to complete it!!! so Spa in 65's was out of the question !!!
Won't get a chance to try some laps at Spa until tonight, but did about 5 "tester" laps last week and got the Cooper slug down to 3:43's. Not sure where I would find another 2 secs or more, but I was not looking that hard.
Maybe, I have to super inflate the tyres and remove all rolling resistance???...fit  rocket boosters??? or arrange a tow rope ??

So is it the .exe that I download?

Just knock everybody off as usual mate.  ;D

Well, that is always the fall back stragety ;)

I try to learn a new circuit by concentrating on maybe getting the first two turns at racing speed, and surviving the rest of the lap by driving very carefully  ( or using Shift-R, but this will mess up tyre temps, so better to go slowly and stay on the circuit!!)
By the time you have completed a few laps like this , your tyres will be warm and you will be attacking the first two corners at racing speed  AND you will have been memorising the rest of the circuit.
Once you are getting through the first two corners add corners 3 and 4, concentrating on getting into the corners smoothly and exiting them under control.
Don't rush to drive all the turns at 100%, better to complete consistant lap times and be confident that the car and the track are going in the same direction.

Here is the Utility Clive mentioned.

http://forum.racesimcentral.com/showthread.php?t=289050

But also as he says you don't want to use it for Spa. I find Spa requires a nice smooth rythm that can only be learned by driving the full course, and it isn't that long anyway. In a 65 there is only 2 or 3 corners anyway!!

The Track Start utility is very useful for places like Nurburgring, Solitude, Isle of Man etc etc, all Clives favourite tracks.   ;)

It will be essential for the forthcoming Targa Floria and Isle of Man full length tracks currently under construction.

Forgot to mention I had to re-post the Utility because the original had gone with the RSC crash earlier this year, so you need to go to the end of the thread.

Hi Clive , yes , exe should be the right one .

It seems probable that we won't be able to use the 65 distance tomorrow, so the race distance will then be the usual 9 laps.

Don't worry about the times being posted, even if you're on 4mins or so, that's still sufficient to get around on the same lap as the leader, as long as you can be consistent at that time.  There are advantages to racing with faster drivers, as you can then watch them on the replay!  

You won't be required to enter the pits for any reason, even after a reset due solely to driver error.  Drivers should however be very cautious at the start at Spa- at the beginning of Eau Rouge the field will slow down rather more than you might expect, and the middle and back of the grid should be aware of this.  Leave a large gap at the bottom of Eau Rouge, then add more, and also be aware that warp problems are more frequent at the start of races.  Even the senior races can have problems at the start of Spa.

Whatever happens at the start or during the race, please attempt to finish, and take as many resets as you require.  Though Spa is a long track this is a long race- if you are going to be lapped, maintain your line, don't drive off the track and don't worry about blocking the leader in corners.  If you slow slightly once the leader has pulled out to overtake, that is sufficient.  However, there may be further cars following the leader that will then appear.

Though I haven't got the schedule yet, the tracks for season 16 will be eight originals (not Kyalami, Monaco or Nurburgring) and East London and Brands Hatch.

I would like everyone to use the same chassis in all races once the season starts, so this preseason race is also a chance to claim a particular chassis.  If it's possible, I'd also like to have a team competition by chassis, with at least two drivers per car.

If you're using the defaults from the link above, they can be made quicker at Spa by altering the ratio from 7/31 to perhaps 9/31, though you'll then have to adjust the gears back to something approaching the final drives of the defaults, according to taste.  I set the cars up similarly for all circuits so that they were consistent, but Spa is perhaps more different from the other circuits than most.

Lastly, you have to have enough fuel in your car to finish the race.  Once you've finished qualifying, ensure that you've switched to race fuel- even if you haven't finished qualifying on your race fuel setup, as you should have!

I was going to post the same thing up, as I wondered if anyone was going to be put off by some pretty reasonable lap times floating around the thread.

I'm still pushing a 3:42 and can't seem to break that barrier, but more often than not it's a 3:44.  Only a few weeks back I was doing well to get a 3:47.  Even at that or a slower time it only takes one or two offs from the driver's ahead and you'll be well up the road and forcing them to push even harder to catch up and they'll probably go off again!

It's all time on track that helps and a getting the gearing right for a good top speed.

If anyone is concerned, please do come in a join us, these are practice races, and even when the season starts, at the end of the day its all for enjoyment.  The only way you get better is by driving.  This series is sure helping me.

still cant connect to server there gotta be something wrong with it!

There doesn't seem any difference for me.... have you tried resetting the path to GPL in Igor Burt?

Also, can you connect to any other 65 races?

Probably the new iRacing contamination filter.   ;D

As Mr Ferrall has said Burt, it's your system that is throwing a hissy fit.

Check that you can join other 65 events, sorry I can't run Gladys because I am not at home.  Come to think of it, she dosen't know about 65s.  Too young.
How many GPL installs do you have?
Is the little racing car red or grey?
Have you tried joining directly via the ip?


We probably need a few more sumptoms explaining.  Go behind the screens and wait for the nurse.

 :laugh: iRacing filter!!,
But what a hoot, if it turns out to be true, that iRacing software conflicts with Igor settings? Don't say we didn't warn you   ;D ::)

Hi Karliss ,

Did found that at RSC . http://forum.racesimcentral.com/showthread.php?t=79980&highlight=start+finish+line


So guess your start/finish line probs are indeed videocard-driver related. Try the 162.18  , driver.
AND check you core.ini settings as well . to make sure they fit to your older slower videocard .

Good luck
Nicky Ickx

used the server tonight for a while, including some races. All fine.

Yes all seems fine , I just need to sort out a hardwire connection for tomorrow night , which should hopefully stop my connection dropping , and all should be well . All I need to do now is string 9 complete laps together with minimum forays into the hedgerows (Malmédy still catches me out  :-[  ) and I might just not get lapped  :)



Paul

My bogey corner seems to be moving around track on different days.  It started as La Source, then Masta, then I couldn't do L'Eau Rouge.  Tonight it was Stavelot! For the race it will probably be all of them!  :D

Some good laps with Dave (Jack, Steve, Bob, Frank, Caroline or whatever he's calling himself this hour ;)) tonight.  Good fun  ;D

Had a first proper go at 1965 tonight (ie using proper ratios so I could use 4th and 5th  :) ). Great fun.

I think if Papyrus had based the original GPL on 1965 then they would be bigger than Microsoft right now - everyone would have bought it and we would have had sequel after sequel getting bigger and better. 67 was a niche because it required patience to master.  So easy to have fun straight away in the 65 cars - it might feel like I'm pushing the limit, but I suspect that a 3.44 is no great shakes in the 33.

Hello again,

I’ve sorted out my network problems and will be at the race on Thursday :) I am a little worried about the laptimes that have been posted, as I’m still not under 4 minutes, but I will be watching my mirrors and will try to keep out of everyone’s way. I think I’m going to have a lonely race at the back, it’ll be fun :)

I’ve got a question about the new season, and about the chassis’s, for example the only car I have really used is the Ferrari, so does that means if I pick the Ferrari I’ll be using that for all the races next season, or will I be allocated a chassis?

Last question, what is race fuel for 9 laps? Would 18 litres be enough?

Thursday?  ???

It's tonight! Tuesday.

I'm using 14 gallons, but I don't look at the amount, just what it tells me in car setup will cover 9 laps.

In case you didn't know (as i didn't until recently) the 65's will tolerate up change of the gears without letting off the gas at all, without sending internal parts into orbit.  Might shave a little time off.

Dave (Jack O'Fs) tip of using the default (downloaded defaults from his link above, not the ones that come with the car).....
Works well as a good starting point and is probably as good as many.

Please don't worry about the laptimes, these races are ideal to improve.  Remember if you need to reset (shift-r) just do it, don't give up the track time.  There is no penalty for shift-r in this race.  Also, don't worry too much for the faster guys, if they do get around to lapping.  It is their resposibilty to get past safely, just hold your line and maybe slow just a little on the straights to let them through, then try and pick up a bit of a tow if you can, but be careful not to outbrake yourself into the next bend and rear end them.  I still brake very early and can catch some people out, normally when I'm getting lapped myslef lol.

See you on track :D

Tonight!!! :)

Well I guess I'll see you guys tonight :)

I've not been letting off the gas when unchanging (I have damaged engines during long runs, but not destroyed), I'm just slow at the moment.

I have got my own setup which I have been using, it’s nothing special, and probably has too much under steer built in, but I’ve been using it for a week or so now and am comfortable using it, in the future I do need to learn to drive with a more standard setup.

I’ll do my best tonight, just keep myself to myself, and hopefully not cause any crashes.

With no limit on resets and no penalty I'd hope that drivers would make use of them tonight, rather than react hastily to a crash by disconnecting- this is a preseason race which is intended to help me set the season up, so I'd like to have everyone on track for as long as possible.

Al, here's a link to some beginner's setups http://www.neurology-crew.com/gplserver (http://www.neurology-crew.com/gplserver) if you want to try them, or just to be able to compare them.  But don't worry about being slow, first aim for consistency and always having the car under control.

Ah! Nobody told me that bit!  ;)

Don't think that is true for 9 laps of Spa.

I always do the calculation during qually.  Put fuel in for three laps, do three laps (including your out lap), then look at what you have used.  Divide that by the number of laps that you have done and add a litre.  That's the minimum.

maybe i'm not pushing hard enough then!  :-\

just tried that theory about not lifting during upshifts...........as I thought,  it doesn't work !!! lol ,   watch out for bits of cooper engine at  Malmedy

 :-[

Its worrying me now, I've been doing that all the time, bet my engine goes to orbit now.

Really enjoyed my first online GPL race. It certainly shows that a bit of competition works wonders for your lap time as I ended up 3 seconds quicker in the race than my previous best the night before.

I managed to get a couple of cars from the start grid and was 5th early on. I had to push harder than a crack dealer to keep the top 4 in sight and for the first half of the race they were tantalisingly close but I just couldn't quite get involved. Then EvilChris crashed in Malmedy and I saw him from 200 yards away spear off to the right so I went left, then he bounced off the right hand hedge and crossed the track again. I was a bit out of shape and not had enough experience of the 65 car to know what would happen if I slammed the brakes on so I aimed as far left as possible and just got through the gap. Unfortunately I clipped Chris and he spun once more then retired. Sorry about that  :'(.

One more crash in front of me and I ended up on the podium, which was a nice surprise as I only installed GPL a few days ago after 2 years off and never driven 65 cars. I'll definitely be applying to join in next season so I hope there's a free space!

Cheers

Dave

That would be me then.

I was closing in on Alain and refused to lift coming out of Eau Rouge, put too much car on the green bit and went off to visit the fence.  My own supid fault.

Well done all.

Well done also to everyone for not hitting me on the way to Curva Grande in the Monza race.  Having dived into the server I was pleased to find that I had a Paul Jackson setup for the BT7.  Heaven knows why.  Having used it to good effect in qually I failed to make it my race setup and so started the race in the default.  This seemed to have been geared for a land speed record attempt and despite being brutal with it off the grid it set off for Curva Grande like a ruptured duck.  The light dawned when I reached said curva and was still only in 3rd.

So I watched Alain and Evil until Alain got the better of him and then buggered off.

Thanks for the racing Dave, Jack, Fred, Carrol, whatever you are this week.  ;D

Have posted Numptygraph here
http://forum.racesimcentral.com/showthread.php?p=3862628#post3862628

Well done everyone for making it an enjoyable evening.

It looks like we have the makings of a great series in 65's to look forward to.

At Spa I was pushing the Cooper slug as hard as I could, but it just did not have that last 1% of raw speed to hold onto the Brabhams, even though I was trying to push that silly red thing further around the dial in every gear.

Then my dreaded random graphic effect kicked in, which happens ( but only occasionally and at random times) when I am close to other cars. The frame rate drops to about 25fps and the result is that the car appears to jump forward in 50mtr steps...kinda making braking and steering difficult, when you are already at the frontiers of one's limited ability!!!
I lost a couple of places as a result and was trying to hang on to Clive's coat tails through Malmedy hoping to pick up what small slipstream effect there is in 65's and .... there was a second when the universe actually stopped.....and then decided to catch up again and I re-materialised half way into the hedge!!!  The rebound caught poor Storm Cloud, so to avoid messing up anyone else's race I quit.

Monza was better and I enjoyed a race long duel with Alain ( our new French recruit I hope). he was definitely quicker on those bits without the bends, but I could just make up the time on the few bends that count at Monza. I did not think the Cooper engine would retain its components, given the thrashing it was getting, but it did.

A shame Clive was not able to get his Brabham involved as a 3 way dice might have got interesting.

Did I hear that someone is working on an update to give the 65's the same slipstream effect as the 66's?? because that, in my opinion, is the one thing that really would make these races pure magic. ;D

Well done to all the new guys, especially at Spa. Glad to hear that some of you improved on PB's in genuine race conditions and that you all enjoyed yourselves. After all, that is what this is all about.

Great fun last night, thank you all for such a good race. My first on-line race.

I wasn’t as bad as I thought I would be, I didn’t have a lonely race at the back and got involved with some good racing. I made some silly mistakes which cost me a little time, and I did have an engine problem (caused by me not lifting on gear changes :) ) Thankfully I don’t think I interfered with anyone else’s race too much. With a bit of running I improved my best laptime by over 6 seconds, very please with that, and more importantly to me, on the laps without mistakes the times where fairly close and consistent.

It’s certainly different watching your mirrors during a race, and also almost paying as much attention to behind as to what’s in front. I fell off the road a few times during practice, but got use to it by the time of the race. Don’t really have to do that on a training game.

So, what’s going to be the next race? I’m looking forward to it already.

Had a bit of a mare at Spa.  Just touched the backend of Karliss accelerating out of Les Combes and sent him in a spin.  Sorry about that.  Waited a bit further down track which put me behind Mr Bucket! We had a good few laps fairly close, just couldn't get quite close enough then we came across Bernie who must have been recovering from an incident.  Dave (Steve Bucket) got passed pretty quickly but I just couldn't get a clean run.  Eventually got through then promptly threw it all away at La Carriére and had to reset.

That put me back to a battling Phil and I think it was S Cutter coming up fast.  Managed to get passed Phil in the slower car, along one of the straights to finish just ahead in I think P5.

Not brilliant but all good experience.

The short races at Monza were a giggle.  Tried using the Spa setup in the first one which was ok, but not ideal.  Sorry to whoever I took out in some late breaking into the final turn, drifted over just too much.

Race 2 was good fun.  4 of us were there.  I'd switched to the 'default' setup from the link.  Got away from the line well and into P1. Alain was going really well in P2 and was quicker than me in the corners, but my BT11 seemed to have a better straight line speed, so made for some good racing.  Dave was waiting to collect the pieces of any incidents, and sure enough, it happened again at Parabolica where Alain just lost the rear, I nearly stopped in time but just touched the car enough to flip him over.  Dave was through, but we waited to see if Alain would rejoin.  Sadly he didn't but, we waited for LRC.  Wow the Fez was running well.  A rocket on the straights, and running well in the bends too, it was hard work trying to keep close.  Unfortunately he ran wide in Lesmo 1 on the final lap and Dave and I got through.  I managed to hold Dave off with my PB.  Really good race.

Thanks all, hope to see you at the next one.  Good turn out for Spa.

Congratulations to podium and thanks everyone for a great race  8)

An attempt to hardwire my connection an hour before practice failed abysmally so I joined on the wifi ,
Think I managed one and a half laps before I was dropped  :'( So I spent a desperate 10-15 minutes trying to sort it all and managed to cobble together a pretty basic connection , I couldn't connect to Igor chat and web pages took in excess of 5 minutes to load if they didn't time out first  :o but I could join the server and race  :) 

A first lap pile up on the run down to Burnenville saw me restart dead last so it was head down and try and stay on the track , I finally managed to catch up with Steve Bird and Phil Thornton but every time I latched onto some one's rear wheels I would promptly stick the car into a hedge  :-\ , Steve managed to pass Phil going into Masta  and I finally managed to latch onto Phils rear wheels , Unfortunately I didn't have the confidence to attempt a pass until Phil again clipped the grass this time at Blanchimont , slowing him enough for me to grit my teeth and pass him just before the exit and with only La Source between me and the chequered flag I was on to actually finish an online race where not only had I not been lapped but I had actually overtaken some one  :jumpjoy:

Thanks again for a great race and role on the next one  :punk:

and it had to me me didn't it!!!  :taz:

Well it had to be some one , Aim high that's my motto  ;D  :P


Paul

i am very upset with the race...
i was competive only in first laps, then my engine started eaking and died 3 times during the race.
also i had problems with Shift+R... game repaired me with ded car... and i did about half lap with gear3 until i relized that maybe it is a BUG.
it is very painful to see how you going down in positions by every lap.
Then i had my bigest FIGHT for not to be the last finisher lol
anyway i was surprised that with PB 3:44 you can manage only 9-10 start position only....
hope to be more lucky next time
ps
what will be the next track?

Yeah sweet race, had a blast at the back :rockon:
Managed to get by all the "tidy" crashes without taking myself or someone else out!!!  Nice to see a bit of consistancy in my lap times and I managed a PB as well during the race so all and all for me a fantastic outing ;D
Looks like we've got a good crew to race with...nice to have others of similar ability to race against!!!  As long as you all don't go getting waaaaay better tooooo quick :o
Haven't had time to sit down and watch the replay and actually work out what happened, I've been working on converting an old fold-up black and decker work stand into a rig to mount my wheel and pedals...it's coming along nicely, entertains my wife and kids with my constant application-rip-reapplication of duct tape and climbing in and out of the whole thing.  Don't think it will improve my times any but it'll sure make my racing more comfortable and enjoyable! ;D ;D ;D
Here's a big thumbs up to everyone and looking forward to the next race :clap:
Jon

Just to clarify something here...

The upshift without letting off the gas.

I did employ this method for many of the upshifts at Spa and Monza that followed, without causing any apparent damage to the engine.  I do however, not use speed shifts for half a lap (or in the case of Spa, 1/4 lap) or so.  I don't know if that 'beds' the engine in better to accept a speed shift, allowing the temperature to come up a bit from cold.

I am no expert in the physics of gear changing just wanted to point it out for those, like me, who are trying to get within some sort of semi-competative time.

Basically what I'm trying to say is do whatever suites you! It seems to work for me but not others.

Whatever you do, make sure it's fun  :)

Thanks everyone for a great night.  I was pleased that no-one disconnected and everyone came home on the same lap!  We had all the chassis being raced and I've got some suggestions for teams, I'll contact anyone who I'd like to try another car.

Since we haven't raced Mexico yet, we'll go there next.  If anyone starts to get frustrated with T1, just ask for advice! 

While we could split into 65s veterans and 65s beginners, unless we get full grids it seems better to start together.  To produce more than a dozen drivers racing regularly seems to take twice that many registrations.  When registration begins I'll ask drivers to indicate whether this will be their first full online season and we'll keep separate track of the beginners competition.

What you might have done karlisss, is to start with the right setup but not to have changed the setup loaded in the 'race' slot from the default?  

Whenever you redline the engine it risks damage, this is minimised with the mods but even at int level you can't race like that with the 67s.  Also, UKGPL league rules penalise resets for destroyed engines.  If you practice offline at Grand Prix level you'll get into the habit of protecting your engine, though you might want to use an easier level to learn a new track!  

Some of the new drivers have been asking for a 67s practice, we can run a couple of int shorts on Sunday, post on this thread if you're interested: https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5096.0 (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5096.0)

Any 67 practice would be good.  Althought this Sunday I'm at the real Castle Coombe for some bike racing, so may be touch and go if I could make it.

:)

I'll be thinking of you in the rain ::)  whilst I walk my dogs just down the road on the Eastern edge of Bristol. :laugh:

Not a good habit to get into Steve.  Took all of the Soggies efforts, including Hristo, over two seasons to finally badger Burt into changing gear properly.

I believe that engines are more fragile when cold at the start but even if you delay being brutal they will still break if you don't lift when changing up.  Not every time; just when you really, really don't want it to.

I have to agree with Clive, :-\

We all ( well most of us anyway)  speedshift occasionally just through bad hand /foot/eye co-ordination and sheer involvment in the racing and over-rev the engine and get away with it. I find that it is most likely when downshifting for corners rather than up shifting along a straight, but either way it is just "not good"!!! 
You will certainly get away with it for a while and may even gain an advantage in some races. But, I promise you, that when you start doing longer races where you may be duelling with the same guy for 10-15 laps or more, you will be devastated when the whirry thing behind you goes "pop" and he disappears into the distance!!!! (...plus you will need to perform a stop and go in the pits ( in 67's anyway, losing you another 15-20 secs).

The 65's and 66's do seem a little more forgiving in terms of engine management and you might get lulled into a false sense of security and bad habits which will bite you in the a** when you move into 67's. Even the aliens will monitor their oil temp during a race ( about the only indicator we have of engine abuse) and back off for a lap just to avoid blowing up and losing a huge amount of time.

With practice you will find that the actual difference between speedshifting and "proper" gearchanging is actually minimal. If you lose a tenth of a second per change ( which is unlikely) , it is nowhere near what you will lose if you blow the engine and have to make a call into the pits!!

My advice would be to avoid the habit of speedshifting otherwise you will become Burt Mk2 and be referred for counselling and corrective therapy at the GPL home for the heavy right footed.

I've been changing my gears this way since I started, so I think I need to get out o fthe habit. What is the correct way, just to lift slightly when you change gears?

I tried Mexico last night for the first time, Jack since no-one else has asked for help can you please provide me with some, I need all the help I can get at the moment.

I had such a good time at the Spa race, I'm glad I took part, also I think I learnt a lot too.

When you change up correctly the rev counter needle just drops from one value to another, without any wild threshing about like s fly fisherman's rod.

It's timing of the feet and the fingers and the more I think about it the more I bugger it up.  I think that I initiate the change with the paddle and then time the off-on of the throttle.  If you don't lift soon enough you will zing it and if you are too early with the "on" you will do the same thing.

If you don't lift then the rev counter goes to its max value and engine damage is registered.

Changing down it's a matter of not being too agressive. By that I mean that unless the gears are close ratio you have to give the poor thing a chance to lose some speed before it has its neck wrung off by being jammed into a lower ratio that will scream its nuts off.

In the 65s at Monza, Curva Grande is a good example where this can happen.  In qually I was hardly lifting before snicking down a gear and getting back on the power.  In the race, if I had managed to load the correct setup, I would have been kinder to it and delayed the downshift a tad. 

This is getting tedious!!!  I keep agreeing with Clive ::)

When I first started online racing I had never heard of speedshifting, although in fact I was doing it all the time!! I thought that the engine explosions were just some sort of random thing thrown in by the game software. :-\

I think the first ever race I did online was watched by the venerable Mr Loynes, and he was the first person to mention "speedshifts" to me.
It took me a while to break the habit, but then I had been doing it for about 5 years whilst playing on my own!!!!
A whole season driving the Waza, ( Honda to the uninitiated) which has a very delicate engine if not treated with respect, taught me a great deal about gear changes, right foot control and survival.
As Clive says the ideal change up through the box will see the rev counter drop from just below the red line and stick ( without bouncing off the stops) as the higher gear is engaged. Likewise changing down, I suggest practising your braking to lose the same amount of speed but delaying the gearchange, by making your first change from 5th to 4th, when you would normally be doing 4th to 3rd.
Then you should have the revs low enough to make further changes without hitting the rev limiter.

 There is no penalty in 65's for a Shift-R reset because it is intended to be a fun introduction to GPL online racing, and quite right too.

If, as we all hope you guys new to this, progress into the 66's and 67's and maybe the 69's these things will become more important.. Some races either do not allow any Shift-R's ( so blow the engine and you are a DNF statistic) or you will be required to perform a Stop and Go in the pit lane every time you wreck an engine. The first ends your race and fun prematurely, the second, you will discover, is one hell of a handicap. Besides losing probably 5 seconds doing the original Shift-R and getting back up to speed with cold tyres and full fuel load and driving steadily until tyres are up to temp, you then have to slow down, enter the pits, stop and restart losing probably another 20 secs  all told!!
Many a race has been won in GPL by the guy who is not alien fast, but maintains a quick but safe pace and has no "offs" or "mechanical malfunctions" and just picks off those who have taken the risk and paid the price. Also many a race has been lost in the last couple of laps as an engine that has been thrashed for 20 odd laps finally says "enough". I know both scenarios ::)

I suppose that as in the real world of 65, we all occasionally take a calculated risk if things are that close and we need a do or die effort to get that podium place...but be prepared to pay the price!!  as I did in the last Masters race just 50mtrs from the chequered flag and 1st place where I was trying to hold off a much faster Lotus and just over revved out of the last corner blowing the gaskets in the process.. At least I managed to coast over the line for 2nd  ;D.

Thanks for the feedback guys.

I only employ(ed) this method in 65's and would never think about doing so in anything else.  Although, now after your follow up I will switch to not making them anymore (well maybe the odd one!;)).

I'm pleased I said about it now, or I'd have been blindly driving on right up until the engine made it's way towards the edge of space.

 ;D

Ok Al here you are!

REED RACING: HOW TO BE MEDIOCRE  by Jack O'Ferrall winner of [0] races in the 2008 season.

I am approaching a zenith of mediocrity.  Fairly soon I will fall away onto the Other Side, no longer becoming more mediocre the faster I go.  However, while there is only a very remote possibility that I will ever be among the fastest UKGPL drivers, I am, for the moment, probably the most middling.  How did I get there?

These are some lessons I learnt:

i) Slow in, fast out.  You have to be able to brake from a high speed in a controlled fashion, however much track it takes.  The lack of resistance of the pedal can fool you into using 100% brakes.  If you wobble, alter your approach next time.

ii) On the other hand you can also drop gears too quickly when you start to slow down.  At T1 at Mexico you need to time your downshifts so that you don't end up in a lower gear too soon, without leaving yourself in a higher gear too late....

iii) Corner in an appropriate gear.  A higher gear doesn't mean higher speed- the car may then seem to understeer off the track no matter how little throttle you use.  Keep your revs up in a corner.

iv) You need to be more cautious on cold tyres, also you have to complete a couple of laps before you can put a decent time in.

v) Set up your hardware properly.  You need enough force feedback to tell you what the car is doing, not so much that turning the wheel is made difficult.  I found that I preferred 'full linear' and a 7:1 steering ratio to get as much control as possible, but I'm still unsure how the fast guys get their wheel speed, probably experience and anticipation?

vi) If you lose control of the car, brake heavily.

vii) Use one of these slow and rather bland and predictable setups: http://www.neurology-crew.com/gplserver (http://www.neurology-crew.com/gplserver) I haven't added Mexico to these yet though I will- you can use the East London set up though, perhaps you might need slightly taller top gears.  

viii) Congratulations you have become a slow driver, I recommend more practice, more advanced techniques ("I just chuck it in") and not to trust the small folk with caps and beards.  

 :) ;D :o

First I like to thank for  hosting  this race !!! excellent Internet-quality too !!
As well , I like to thank every driver for making  this race to an real great funny event !!!
Special thanks goes to Alain Maurice and too the driver , was always close to Alain and me too , for making   an  brilliant thrilling  race.
Luckily I could made it to the end. Wasn’t sure off course, so I pushed hard the first couple of laps , still knowing  my tyres will burned out to the last laps.
And more important the engine`s temperatures , which I know by test races , starts to get critical at the mid off the race ( 116° average ) , due to the fact off my shifting style and gear ratio. Guess the fact I managed the start very lucky , serves me the comfortable situation to stay ahead on the faster drivers.
Puuuh was really hard work. Nevertheless  , no doubt  , Ferrari power makes it all .

Well , looking forward to Mexico , I`m thinking`to use the cooper  for the first time.

But first off all , I am really looking forward to these UK 65mod league seams to be established now by success.
Lots off  nice drivers and a great administrator working for this all .
One more time big thanks for that !
I really enjoy you all .

see ya at Mexico
Nick Ickx

Blimey !

All them happy GPL'ers , never seen so many smilin faces in one leaugue , dont think I can take much more of this after my being brought up on large doses of Monza PU races  :-[

Please
Lets have more flamin blamin and less of this patronising stuff its drivin me crazy  ::)


What'cher mean I'm already crazy   :P

Nurse ! Nurse !  where's me meds quick  :o

Oh dear its BAD BERNIE back.

Have you run out of the special pile cream again Bernie?

Repeat after me "I WILL NOT BE A GRUMPY OLD CURMUDGEON"

I know its difficult, on your medication, but try to remember when you discovered GPL!  When you realised that this is what the computer industry had been striving for all those years.

If we have any more of this I will make sure Matron has a new pair of rubber gloves to resume your special treatment.

Here we have this group of enthusiastic new starters all aspiring to be the next Bernie Darwin, so be on your best behaviour, or Matron will be looking for you.  I've cancelled nurse Gladys for this afternoon as well.

[qoute]I've cancelled nurse Gladys for this afternoon as well.[/qoute]


Oh no !

I take it all back

promise! promise!

 :) :) :)



 

Look again mid season when we have all been tested in the red hot crucible of competition and everyone has a thousand yard stare and a look of steely determination  :ninja:


 ;D  ;)  :P

Paul

It's probably wind!

I was in briefly during practice and then had to leave due to a work issue, but it's great to see such an awesome turnout. And while I'll be bringing up the rear for most if not all of the races, I'm really glad to be part of this league! Tired of making only left hand turns in my past NASCAR leagues, I am looking forward to the upcoming season as it's a "breath of fresh air" for me, and certainly a new and exciting challenge. Thanks for having me onboard!

Randy Lawrence

PMSL  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I'm sure Dave, Jack, Carrol Squeeky Mitch and Titch said something about Mexico being the next 65 event but I'm buggered if I can find the thread now.
Anyway, I have done a lap and compared it with Steve Cloyd'd effort to show what the analyser can tell you.
http://forum.racesimcentral.com/showthread.php?p=3864632#post3864632

Have fun

Clive

Edit
You need to hit the zoom in button to be able to read it.

Is it as good as the Spa one when posted a 3m 34 somethink ?

I did a similar time with it and thought I was set up for a decent race , only to find  the BT7 was being peddled around in the 3m 30 's   ::)

Left in the dust again , gonna change me handle to Billy no mates  ???



 

Have a BT11 next time Bernie.  I had said that the BT7 and Cooper were for D1 only drivers and that Clubmans/D1 drivers should bag themselves faster chassis!

You'll need the extra speed anyway, as your grudge battle with Burt is one of the highlights of the preseason marketing.

The server replay from Spa is here: http://www.neurology-crew.com/gplserver (http://www.neurology-crew.com/gplserver) under 'Season 15 Pre-season warm-ups'.

You are talking about Bernie....Clubmans Championship winning Bernie....here! I'd only let him have a BT11 if he runs -10 on tyre pressures and has to recite the alphabet backways while driving with the pedals calibrated in reverse!! But then he'd probably still beat me anyway.   :P

 :)

Its just that I like driving around on my own,  unharassed !   :)

Preferably in front of you lot  :D


Mr O'fficial , Dave , whatever yer name is , I thought the idea was for the more experienced drivers like Me and Burt, (well me anyway )  were supposed to take the slower chassis so's the "New" boys could run with us ?

Since my mate Burt has declared his intention to give up GPL altogether in favour of the much more superior iRacing I now seem have no one to aspire to. A great pity , I shall miss his presence on the grid .

 ::) ::) ::)

   

From what I hear, you may not be rid of Burt just yet  muhahahahahah ::)

Last I heard he was having a Roo bar fitted to the coop  :o

Im still about maybe taking it bit easier on sundays, but I now in need of a team if I am to continue, perhaps something to relight my fire. Since I think Steve and Brendan are going iracing, im loving the 65s and 69s right now, but looking and I am open for suggestions.

Just when you think it's safe to get back in the water!!!

I would have thought that you should have figured out by now Burt that there is only one proper team. And it isn't Crash and Burn Backwards either!

Hah!

Burt is a spent force!  Our man Bernie can take him with one hand tied behind his back.  One of Burt's that is.

By the way, when is the next 65 romp?  Since the 66s have finished this Tuesday must be empty.