SimRacing.org.uk

UKGPL Season 16 - Novices and Amateurs - Race 3 - 65 mod - Mexico City

This will be the third championship race in the Novices and Amateurs Division, which uses the 65 mod.  Mexico would be long enough to run as a single grid if possible, however, since there were enough drivers to justify two grids in the last round, for this race the Novices and Amateurs will have separate grids, and the Amateurs, as the bigger grid, will run on 3ukgpl.

Please be in IGOR UKGPL chatroom by 8:40 p.m.
(You will need to set up a channel called #ukgpl if you haven't already done so)
IGOR and Race passwords: see above (#post_event_password)

Server 3.ukgpl
IP address 87.194.135.42
Race date = 7-10-2008
Track = Mexico City
Variant = 65F1
Damage Model = INT
Qualifying time = 35 minutes. Don't start until 30 mins left on clock to allow everyone to join.
Race length = long (20 laps)

Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=193&theme=6)

Make sure that you have enough race fuel to complete the distance!

Moderation:  I'm hoping to be able to moderate the whole race, thanks to Bully I should have access to the server replay.  However only incidents that are reported are certain to be looked at.  Please can all drivers be very careful at the start of the race.  The main problem with the start at Mexico is that the long straight can lead drivers to imagine that there is enough room to pass when warp can be a problem, also drivers need to make use of their side views before changing lines.  The chicane is single file and it's easy for drivers who don't anticipate how slow a large field can get at this point to fail to brake enough, the tailenders almost have to stop.

Penalties are to be worried about after the race, with the exception of penalties for restarts.  The UKGPL rule is that you have to take a stop-and-go in the pits for each reset at the end of the lap, with the only exception being if your reset was caused by another driver.  The penalty for not taking a stop-and-go is thirty seconds.   Novice drivers will be on their own grid for this race, so any reset will have a thirty-second penalty unless another driver has collided with your car, or you carry out a stop-and-go.

Chassis assignments: Once you've begun to drive a car in the championship then you should continue with that car, there's no switching cars by track. 

Grids  The Novices and Amateurs split worked out well last time.  The Novices will start first, but if for some reason you fail to start on the Novices you may join the Amateurs.  If there are drivers who want to join but haven't been allocated to a grid or chassis yet, please post or contact me before the night of the race!

65 Mod

These were the 65 drivers
BT7 Bonnier, Baghetti, Hulme (Bonnier drove for Walker)
BT11 Brabham Gurney Gardner Anderson Siffert (Siffert drove for Walker, Gardner and Anderson were privateers)
Lotus Clark Spence Rodriguez Mitter Russo Solana (and Maggs Hailwood Attwood Amon and Ireland for Parnell)
Ferrari Surtees Bandini Rodriguez Vaccarella Bondurant Scarfiotti
Honda Ginther Bucknum
Cooper McLaren Rindt
BRM Hill Stewart
 
The 1965 season was the last to use the controversial 1500cc formula which had begun after 1960, to the initial advantage of Ferrari.  The 1965 cars are smaller than the 1967 cars and have less torque and hence more grip.  It was claimed that they 'cornered on rails', however this allowed the Grand Prix series to retain the use of circuits which were otherwise to prove extremely dangerous.

The 1965 cars are ideal for those new to GPL as they allow the tracks to be learnt in light reliable cars, however these are also full Formula One cars, and quite fast....  Jim Clark got pole at Mexico in the Lotus 33, his time was 1'56.17.  Richie Ginther won the race for Honda.

David Wright's 'Legends' site http://fp.gplegends.plus.com/ (http://fp.gplegends.plus.com/) has the download of the most recent 2.0.1 version (under 'details') as well as being an exceptional guide to both 1965 and 1967, for those interested in Formula One history.

Unfortunately the current 65 mod download does not have default setups.  Default setups can be downloaded from http://www.neurology-crew.com/gplserver  (http://www.neurology-crew.com/gplserver) under '65 setups'.  Though there may not yet be a setup for Mexico, the East London setup could work, perhaps with taller top gears.  Note that you will also have to add enough fuel for the race!

my so far Ferrari65 Mexico setup

http://forum.racesimcentral.com/showthread.php?p=3895882#post3895882

I'll get my excuse in early - I don't like Mexico  ;D

May get an early start in with the Honda tonight, in which case I might also be able to post up what ever setup I end up with should it be wanted :) (also should I find somewhere to put it! )

You can post your setup and lap here,

http://forum.racesimcentral.com/showthread.php?t=325670

as Nicky has done.

Sorry it's late - I spent my weekend alternating between trying to setup the '66 RA273 and lying upside down in my Westfield trying to coax the taillights into life for her MOT!  ;D

But here is my race setup for the Honda at Mexico - I'm rather fond of oversteer as you'll discover, take heed of the warning in the link  ;)

http://forum.racesimcentral.com/showpost.php?p=3898121&postcount=6 (http://forum.racesimcentral.com/showpost.php?p=3898121&postcount=6)

Oh, Pribula claims I could be at least half a second quicker than the times quoted in the link :)

Good point made by Nicky tonight while we did some practice on the available server.  Please confirm is it 20 laps as per the first post, or 28 for an Int Long race.

Not bothered either way myself but some might need to know in advance.

 :)

It should be 20 laps for an int long race, the 28 laps is a hangover from the D1 race, which is 50 minutes long.  Hopefully Phil will be able to change it back for us!

Sorted now.  Sorry for the panic, I'll try to remember to reset it back straight after the D1 race in future ;).

Not going to be able to make this one...sorry guys, have a great race!!!

Cheers!
Jon

Hi Clive, I've posted the complte transcript of the Notive race on this thread. Can you please do one of you graphs when you get a chance.

http://forum.racesimcentral.com/showthread.php?p=3898849#post3898849

Thanks you

Done!

Grats on a good result Alastair.  I remember that T1 at Mexico is a daunting prespect for beginers.  I wrote-off more Ferraris there than Enzo ever built!


Looks like a good battle with Norbert and grats to Asbjeurn for the win.

Race report:

I finished 6th because there were five quicker blokes in front of me.

Grats to John for a brilliant performance.

How the hell Natan talked his way into a Lotus I'll never know.  ;D

The top bunch owes me a drink for keeping Cumulous Nimbus bottled up for just long enough.  Good FL though.

I got all the way to the hairpin, and my pedals just stopped working, managed to keep out the way of everyone, as the wheel itself was ok.  Very frustrating as I was confident of having a good run here.

After doing more soldering and taking a bit more time over it all, the pedals would appear to be working again, albeit the throttle only goes up to 95% and the brake seems to be on about 6 or 7% all the time.  Fortunately I can tune that out in DXTweak and gives me full control again.  Gave it a test and went straight into a 1:55 so it seems its working for now.

Fingers crossed at all holds together until I can look at getting another good quality wheel next year.

Congratulations Asbjeurn.

This was the first race I competed in as I had to retire from Watkins Glen and preparation could have been better.

I had been ill in bed all day but gave the race a go anyway.

I made a place at the start and kept it for 5 laps or so while keeping in touch with the 2 Ferraris in front, then I made a mistake and lost the place.

The rest of the race was spent on my own and on lap 15 or so I was physically sick, luckily while on the main straight though it made me spin in turn 1.

I had no SHIFT-Rs or crashes but spun 4 or 5 times, which is fine on a circuit I really don't like.

I finished about 35 seconds down on 5th and without the spins I could have maybe put some pressure on, but I'm glad Mexico is out of the way.

I finished bathed in sweat and went back to bed for the night.

It was a good clean race though.

Firstly congrats to Asbjeurn for two straight wins in the novices.
Bit of a disaster for me, the 2.03 I was getting in practice (good time for me) went to pieces in the race. Car was all over the place. I need to spend more time on the set up.
Anyway, made the start and it was like driving on ice. After a couple of laps ended up behind a barrier and I could foresee see lots of Shift R’s/Stop Go’s / getting in the way of frontrunners coming up, so gracefully retired.
I’ll be back for the next one with a better set up and more practice…

Hi Guys,

Thank you very much for a great race yesterday, by far my best result and more importantly I didn’t do anything stupid. I’ve got to admit that I didn’t expect to do so well.

I quite like Mexico, I seem to be able to get a really good rhythm going and also I didn’t seem too effected by other cars around me, unlike Watkins, where if I saw another car I seemed to fall off the road in short order.

Qualifying went well for me, and I set a time that I was happy with, and started 5th on the grid. At the start of the race I just tried to keep out of trouble and seemed to do that well. I think this is when Steve crashed out due to his pedal problems, sorry to see that Steve I hope you get them fixed.

I was chasing Norbert for the next 10 laps or so, I managed to get on his gearbox and stay there for a good number of laps until I made a small mistake and spun it. It cost me a few seconds but I was so happy where I was I didn’t mind. I go back onto keeping a steady pace, more than catching Norbert.

Norbert made a mistake a some point, I pasted him went he was high up on the guard rail and got a few seconds lead. That was pretty much it for me, I concentrated on keeping a good steady pace and not doing anything stupid. I found a nice rhytem and got the car home :)

I was having problems with my downshifts, when I was pressing the downshifter it wasn’t doing it in the game, I ended up having to hammer the downshifter in order to make it happen. I hope I don’t have a problem and I hope it was just a bad connection. It nearly made me spin a few times but once I was use to it I controlled it OK.

Well done to Sam and Asbjeurn, you two guys where in a class of your own, and I noticed that your average lap time of the race was higher than any of my laps.

I’m looking forward to East London.

 ;D :D ;) :P
That again was big  fun  !!! Thx all !!

Congratulations to the podium ones : to the winner john Roberts , to 2nd natan Vix , (fastest driver in qualifying ! ) , to 3rd Tim Muttram , overtake me at the start and simply passed away then . big hand to Storm Cloud on 5th and fastest racelap , givin`me a real hard time to the end of the race.
And of course grats to all other drivers: Clive Loynes , Steve Bucket , Geoff Heard , Ian Stanley , bernie65 darwin , Paul Bird and peter maestro.

Earning 4th  in the race out of 3rd in qualy was more then I expected , coz damned cold still was playing tricks on my brain , lol.
e.c.  each time I tried to push a bit , let me ended up badly in the Armco of T1.  . So I decided to stop that and settle on more safety style instead.
Lucky me , it works out short off.


Havnt seen the results of  Novice`s race yet . But heard Asbjeurn did made it again ; grats !!!

b_1_rd  you get lost by again failing pedals ? damned hell`,pitty.
Maybe time for pure steel pedals ? http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v734/nickyickx/ickxtuned%20pedals/?action=view&current=05c0f8da.pbw



And thx Norbert !! your idear fixin a peace of paper to the PC screen as  a reminder to save replay after the race , did the trick !!

mexicoukgplamateurs65race.7z
Download: http://www.files.to/get/427899/0s1xczlpvz

See ya all at EastLondon
NickyIckx

Great race!  ;D

I'm really pleased with my result too, I've also grown somewhat more fond of Mexico too as I've 'got' the circuit so to speak (I other words I figured out T's 1 and 13  ;))
As Nicky says I took 3rd off the start from him - the replay shows him bogging down on the line, all I could hear from his driving seat was my car approaching at 13,000RPM like a chainsaw at full throttle before carrying on past at pretty much the same revs  ;D

From there on he gave me a few scares on the first 2 laps when I'd run wide/brake too early only to find him looking very close in my mirrors :o
I very slowly pulled away from him until I assume he must have hit the armco in T1 as suddenly the gap doubled and I was clear :)

This left me concentrating on a balance between restraining myself from my more usual flatout loonacy, while still trying to chase down John and Natan. I managed to come close to John once or twice in the first 1/3 of the race but always managed to take a slightly bad line and loose the ground again....
Finally I caught him properly on lap 10 while he was locked in deadly combat with Natan  :fencing:
He finally made it past and held it on lap 11, Natan made a mistake exiting the chicane after T1 while trying to get back at John - which very nearly gave me 2nd spot!  ;D
I decided to pull in rather than go 2 wide into the T4/5 chicane as I felt (hoped) Natan would be able to reel John back in if I left him alone for long enough. Unfortunatly it rapidly became clear that he'd lost his pace (presumably melty tyres :D) and was not only loosing John but was possibly slightly slower than me.
Sadly he was still fast enough not to let me manage to get further than side by side with him, a position I managed only a few times but never capitalised on   :(

Despite this I'm very happy as it was a flawless race for me, and aside from running over a tyre in T2 at some point I didn't set a wheel wrong  8)

Congrats to John and Natan, and thanks for a very challenging race  ;D
The same to Nicky as you gave me ample incentive not to make a mistake through trying too hard, and you also started to worry me in the closing stages of the race as you started reeling me back in!   :nono:

Now I'd just like to thank Nicky's germs for keeping him off me :wetfish:, Clive for keeping Cloud at arms length ;D, and everyone else who took part  :angel:

Big congrats to Alastair for this one!
You  really made a step forward since Watkins.
Just couldn´t come after ya  :o.
That was well done mate  :clap:
Lookin´forward to the african scene.
Of course big hand to the northern fjord-horses!
Those italian thorougbreds seems to thrive quiet well up there ;D.
Sam ,of course, was running as good and fast as well.
Steve "the unlucky" Bird again did the trick and cheated himselv for a good place (not to tell of the race):taz:.
When he starts to finish ::) i´m in real trouble :-\.
But until then : see you all guys on stage East London somewhere between Potters Pass and Rifle Bend.

Cheers
Norbert

Amateur replay available here:

http://www.planet-venom.co.uk/gpl/

Points wise that was a trifle disappointing only finishing 5th but I really enjoyed the race. Slightly stymied by poor qualifying I watched Clive swoop around the outside of T1 and take 5th from me. I had to follow him for a long time because although I was a smidge quicker overall I couldn't get close enough through the last two turns. Eventually I got it figured out and passed him. I then set off after Nicky and Tim and was suprised to be inching closer to them whilst gapping Clive. Just as I could smell the Nicky's Ferrari exhaust I overcooked it on T1, gently spun and was lucky to get going ahead of Clive - couldn't afford to get stuck behind him again! Lost 7 or 8 seconds I think but still got right up Nicky's chuff by the end.

East London next - I can't think of a flatter, more boring, slow corner addled track than East London  :(.

Are you doing a Numpygraph for the Amature race aswell Clive?
I'm curious to see it is all  :)

No sooner done than said   8)

Same place as the other one.

Cheers Clive - It's shows what I thought it would too.
Wish I'd made it past Natan as his Lotus was deffinatly off his ealier pace by lap 8, I should have pulled away if I'd made it  :)

well i had a great race ... when you win it's always great :)

if natan's tyres hadn't gone on him i don't think that i would have been able to pass him , the cooper is pretty gutless and mex and it has not got the power down the straights , how i got 2nd in qually is beyond me ! (with a couple of mins to go i was pole.. but natan had it for 95% of the practice)

tim was always there just behind the front two and i was very happy to see he was bothering natan after i got in the lead . nice racing form everybody i saw on track ( also the back markers i passed) .

next race east london ... pass the sick bag ..

john

After recovering from a dodgy 1st lap my race with that Old Dog Ian Stanley turned into a cracker , I lost count of the times we passed then re passed each other Racing  2 abreast through T1,  the hairpin and Peralta.

Unfortunately I ran out of gas somewhere around half distance ! (dumb I know)  but then battle resumed after Ian had spun on the same lap I pitted , thus maintaining the status quo . At one stage Geoff Hurd's Honda joined in the fun but unfortunately I managed to tag him with an over ambitious move going into T2 (Sorry mate)

All in, a very enjoyable race with an "Old " adversary

Think I will be giving the next race a miss , not a fan of Eastenders its for trogs and old women  ::) 

Thanks for hosting, Clive.  I noticed that Peter was (presumably) dropped from 3ukgpl again, does 3ukgpl use different settings than the ones you prefer?

If there's fewer drivers for East London we'll revert to a single grid.  I chose East London as its both historic and easy for novice drivers.  I'm surprised that it's more unpopular than two more usual UKGPL tracks, Albi or Snetterton, though...? 

After some work on my install, I wasn't dropped from the grid this time.  My race threatened to be enlivened as I approached the battling duo of Ian and Bernie, but they then made their excuses and resumed only after I was safely past.  John had a great race in the Cooper, well done.

The major problem with a chassis allocation system is that there's no handicapping to adjust it if the moderator gets it wrong.  However, drivers were known to change chassis once during the season (just not every race!), so there should be scope for some improvement to the rules, I'll consider it.  One chassis change for some drivers would retain the virtues of allocation, while making it less crude. 

I quite like East London.  But then I can't say I particularly dislike any track.  There's just tracks I don't know very well.  I think 1 chassis change would be a good idea, I'll go with what ever anyway.

One thing I must add is I feel the 65's have been a great success, with beginners, novices and more experienced alike.  Thanks to Dave for setting it up and making it work.

No problem Dave, happy to be able to help.  Just remember a Christmas card for Gladys.

Good on yer Steve.  I don't think East London is so bad either but then I am a well known flat track fan.

Can't drive a car with its wheels in the air!

I find bits of East London quite a challenge but I might take advantage of Dave's offer of a few more horse power.  Looking at the tracks that are coming up I think that the BT7 will be dead in the water unless it's in the hands of Lorenzo or Hristo.  Perhaps I should change my name to Clivo and see if that makes me any quicker. 8)

 :) to me East London is a nice track to race too , tiny infield and one long straight serves the possibility to slipstream a bit , nevertheless at least three hard brakin zones.
so enough spots to leave the track by mistake or blow up th eengine or smell down the tyres ... :laugh:

Hm, Snetterton unpopular? In NGPLS it was one of the most popular tracks, despite being flat as a pancake. It gave very good races, and it requires a nice variety in techniques to get through the curves. In some ways I feel that it resembles Silverstone. It has a pretty fast 90 degrees T1 and it's got a sort of a complex before a long straight. Still I find Silverstone's curves being more "stereotypic" than Snetterton's. For this reason I find Silverstone a bit boring compared to Snetterton, which is one of my favourite tracks. Besides, Snetterton was my first green track, so I guess that makes it mean something special to me. :)

Talking 'bout East London: I haven't driven it that much, so I'm not sure how I feel about it. I won't be getting much chance to practice either, since me and my little family is moving the next week. I'm not even sure if I'll get our ADSL up and running on the new place in time for the race. :(