SimRacing.org.uk

Release of this patch is drawing closer and this is a test to check all is ok under race conditions. It will also give you a chance to try out the new framerate. It really makes a big difference to the graphics.
You’ve probably had your fill of Monza recently but picked it to test close racing and to save you doing too much pre-race practice.
Have picked Wednesday as it shouldn’t clash with any of the main UK league events.

Please reply to this post if you wish to race and you will be sent joining details (UPDATE - now full, taking reserves)

If you have problems installing the 65 mod, just post on the thread. If you haven't used the 65 cars before, be aware that though they're far easier to drive, they have no proper default setups of their own- you'll have to download one, or alter the gearing.  There are default setups available if you need one, just use the link below.     

Please be in IGOR UKGPL chatroom by 8.40 p.m.
(You will need to set up a channel called #ukgpl if you haven't already done so)
IGOR and Race passwords: will be supplied to respondents
60 fps patch: will be supplied to respondents (GEM tick box to turn on/off)

Server 6.ukgpl
IP address  tba

Race date = 25-02-2009, 9.00pm
Track =  Monza
Variant = 65mod
Damage Model = Intermediate
Qually time = 30 minutes.
Race length = Int-Long (23 laps not 21)

Chassis assignments: any chassis you like

New 65 Patch: This is likely to be released shortly - as this is a fun race if it is available you can use it...

65 Mod
 
The 1965 season was the last to use the controversial 1500cc formula which had begun after 1960, to the initial advantage of Ferrari.  The 1965 cars are smaller than the 1967 cars and have less torque and hence more grip.  It was claimed that they 'cornered on rails', however this allowed the Grand Prix series to retain the use of circuits which were otherwise to prove extremely dangerous.

The 1965 cars are ideal for those new to GPL as they allow the tracks to be learnt in light reliable cars, however these are also full Formula One cars, and quite fast....  Jim Clark won the 1965 Belgian Grand Prix from in a Lotus.  Graham Hill took pole in his BRM P261 with a time of 3'45.4 .  The 1965 distance was 32 laps.

David Wright's 'Legends' site http://fp.gplegends.plus.com/ has the download of the most recent 2.0.1 version (under 'details') as well as being an exceptional guide to both 1965 and 1967, for those interested in Formula One history.

Unfortunately the current 65 mod download does not have default setups.  Default setups for all the cars and tracks that are likely to be used can be downloaded from http://www.neurology-crew.com/gplserver under '65 setups'.  Note that you will have to add enough fuel for the race, whether short or long!


Password: see above (#post_event_password)
(2) Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R;group=202;theme=6)

I'm confused  ???
I thought the 60 FPS buisiness came with the new 65 patch/mod?

If not then what do I need to try this?  :)
However, if we're being used for beta purposes then count me in. As 65's with draft will be worth the arguement with my girlfriend over a race on Weds  :angel:
Plus the Waza's would need representation at such a historic event  ;D

To clear up any confusion;
The 60fps patch is completely separate to the new 65 patch. What this patch does is run GPL at a 60fps framerate as opposed to the current 36fps.
60fps is more compatible with modern screen refresh rates so you get smoother/modern looking graphics. It has been extensively tested and does not produce changes in your laptimes. You'll have to try it so see what I mean - RSC had more info but unfortunately it's down.
Basically it's an XML file you drop into the GEM options folder which can then be switched on or off - it doesn't 'integrate' itself into your current GPL set up so won't mess anything up. You'll get the file if you sign up...
Wednesday seemed to be the only free day before the start of Season 17.

I'd say it's a 'historic event' as, although tested online, it's never been tested in a formal race situation and UKGPL have been selected to do that...
Can you 'persuade' your girlfriend on this basis Tim?

I'll be there ;)

Woohoo!!!!  Wazas are always at the forefront of modern technology count me in and point me to the promised land of 60fps ;D ;D ;D

Just a minute!!! does the fact that UKGPL have been  chosen for this evaluation excercise make us "crash test dummies" ??!!! ::) ::) :yes: :yes:

Count me in too please.

Based on Monza last week it's fair to say we were chosen on the basis that we're the biggest crash test dummies out there!  :clown:

She has to get up for work at 5 in the morning so goes home by 9pm anyway ;) I'm in!  :yes:

Yeah me too, in for a penny, in for a Euro......
Incidentally, in Australia, a euro is a Aboriginal term for a kangaroo. Euro fat and heat were used to temper hunting and war spear tips. Here endeth the lesson............ ::)
Geoff.

Awesome, I want 60 fps too !!!  :o

I would but I'm away next week. Shame would have liked to try it out.

Is there room for me ?
Natan

Should be able make this one. Will be nice to play GPL with a faster FPS  ;D

Back home in sunny Wigan England its slang for "owing someone"

e.g.

euro yer mate 10 quid  :)

 

LOL Bernie...........

have they sorted out the sever/client timer setting? if not it might be best to put up a test server before the race, so drivers can be ready. people usually have problems with these settings when they change .

john

Planning to do that - thanks for reminding me to say core.ini settings for 60fps are;
client - 5/84
server - 5/384
(seems to work best - will set server to this)

Are you joining us John?

Doesn't Igor do that for you? I thought I read somewhere it does  :-\

oh this is gay, just another way to get everyone to use GEMcrap...lame. ::)

Planning to do that - thanks for reminding me to say core.ini settings for 60fps are;
client - 5/84
server - 5/384
(seems to work best - will set server to this)

Are you joining us John?
[/quote]

could do :)

john

The host set-up can be set to override your settings so yes I think IGOR does it - only need to change your files if you join direct and bypass IGOR

Don't know any other way to patch it, maybe they will come up with something when it's released...

:o
When there is still a free place, I'll join this historic event!!

I'll give this a go if y'all still have room.

Cheers,

W

 ;) :) :)

no question , I really like to test that one too.
If there is still a place free ,plz count me in .

 ::)wonder how it will be .

hopefully the same great as these 65patch(slipstream/collisionbox etc. )  still is.

cant wait 8)

60 fps sounds good.
would like to try it as well!

Me too!  :yes:

nice i give this a go!

By my reckoning we have 3 places left if you still want to join...
Bernie - I take it you were replying to Geoff rather than asking to join the race.
I will get a PM out today with joining details and leave the server up tonight for practice

OK I'm in  :)

Thanks for putting me on the list Vos. Initial test yields excellent results at Monza! Solid 60fps all the way 'round. Very smooth and clear. I also tried it at Jops Siffert and lost loads of frames at the hill but I'm sure it's just my old machine....
 
Thanks again. This test race is a great idea and should be interesting.

Will

I've ummed and ahhed about this for a day or so now, but I'd like to give this a go if there's places left. :)

You're in Jethro - will send you details.
That leaves just one more place...

Patch is installed and working - I'm impressed at the difference this makes tbh  :o
I'm also suprised over which circuits hit you with it and which don't - the only points at monaco where I get slowdown are the tunnel (approx 50FPS)(I've got all the extras such as 3d light ect in there) and on one occasion the final hairpin entering the start straight (50ish for half a sec or so) ???

GPLEA's Clermont is flawless and an absolute joy to drive, as is rouen, as is Monza  8) I tried Montjuch though and that was terrible, frame rates dropped to about 40 at the first hairpin and I just bailed and left the track....

On all the circuits I've tried it will drop a frame about once a lap which is odd but also fairly hard to notice if I'm honest  :)

This is all with:
Res of 1680x1050
Athon64 3500+
Nvidea 7800GT
4 gig of ram (only 3 and a bit available (thanks Bill  ::)))
And a SB Audigy 1
Will try it on my big rig in a mo, if that struggles then I think the patch will be a no-go as fair as league racing is concerned  :(

I tried the patch briefly at Monza

My frame rate hovers btw 59 and 60 fps.

Cant say I noticed difference btw this and 36 fps  but then I'm not sure what the advantage/s are meant to be  :)

 :(

Just a note on my performance: framerates varied between 60 and 45FPS, so am gonna turn some details down before trying this again.

Tried this briefly last night, keen to see what difference it made.

Off line at Monza a very steady 59-60 fps ( even with contrived spins and sudden moves) and although I have to admit there was not a startling difference in appearance I feel that things were just that bit smoother and sharper.

I jumped onto the 60fps Monza server and tried that. The maximum frame rate was 44fps and it dropped to around 34-40fps when another car appeared. This is still an improvement over my usual on-line rate which is often down to 26-28fps during races etc., but as i only saw a maximum of 4 cars on circuit I do wonder if that will suffer with 18 cars?

I certainly did not see rates over 44fps even when sitting in the pits on-line, so I'm wondering if there is something in my settings which needs to be addressed?
I have the detail bias down to about 65% but all the trackside objects at maximum.

The machine that I'm running may not be the ultimate gaming rig, but, probably is a fair representation of what a great many GPL'ers are using.
I have a dual core 2.4ghz processer, 2 gb ram, twin 256 graphics cards ( this may be the weak link as I believe that GPL's software cannot apply the graphics software that utilises both cards ?) monitor running at 1280x1024.

I'm still running D3D graphics mode and wonder if I should switch to OpenGL? is that better or not worth the effort?

As Igor overrides any bandwidth settings, I assume there is nothing to be gained in that area so maybe I just need a faster processer.

I was driving on the server with Evilclive yesterday evening (very fun race indeed! BTW
I also set my new PB :angel:).

FPS was quite OK, except Lesmo2 and Parabolica when it dropped at ~46.

Offline on same track no problem, steady 60 FPS.

Usually I have a steady 36 FPS and better performance online with a full grid than offline with 19 AI.

PIV @ 2.8 GHz
2gb RAM
GeForce4 Ti 4600 128 Mb
D3Dv2 @ 1280x1024 99% details on a CRT 15" monitor
I left Vsync off.

update.....

Just joined server on my lonesome and fps maxed at 30,,yes 30 fps??!!  must be something in my settings I feel?

GPL specs from the CD Box:

Pentium processor - 90Mhz
16MB of RAM
100MB hard drive space
SVGA card 640 x 480 256 colours

Higher res textures, runtime apps, higher screen resolution (1680 x 1050 has 6 times more pixels to colour in) all make a difference but all the PCs here are orders of magnitude better than the specs. Might be a lack of optimisation as most hardware was not even conceived of when GPL was born.

I tried it racing alone offline, great stuff, the difference in smooth motion is pleasantly noticeable. Tried both with 60 hz v-sync and 85 hz no v-sync and it didn't make a difference, it kept at 60 fps. Haven't tried with other cars or online yet, but for those getting bad FPS, try moving the details slider to the left and as second option turn off mirror details. Perhaps some changing in the core.ini d3d settings might help as well.

 :) :) :)
Everything fine on my side here . very smooth .

Seegert `s  Monza version  ( 39MB ) serves me constant 59-60 fps on – and offline.

Vsync on or off doesn’t make any difference .

Monaco Rocks 2 with tunnel and horizon highres stuff  , as well serves me 59-60fps. ( offline 1 car test mode ).


Main fps killers I do know

< Anti Aliasing :  e.c. in my case x4 is max
< Z Buffer if set to 1 inside GPL `s  core.ini
<level of detailed set to 100% inside GPL   
 ;)
My PC specs and settings for GPL

Cpu:   AMD Opteron170 ,dual core 2x2,0GHz

Videocard: ATI Radeon X1800XT 512MB

RAM:      OCZ 500 1024 EL GEGXT ,2x 1GB , 2,5-3-3-7-1T

MB: DFI LANParty UT CFX3200-DR

Soundcard:  Creative X-Fi Xtreme Gamers 64MB

Screen:  Samsung Sync Master 959NF , CRT

OS: XP Home SP3 , 32bit

BIOS settings:

BIOS      
CPU            20%   Opteron 170   2 x 2,40 GHz
      
FSP   240   
HT   960 MHz   4 x 240 MHz
Multi   10   
DDR 366   183 MHz   
      
Bus Takt   218,1MHz   
      
RAM            2,69V   OCZ   2x 1GB
CL                CAS   2,5   
RAS to Cas   tRCD   3   
RAS pre          tRP   3   
tRAS   7   
Command Rate   T1   


Video Driver settings:

Catalyst Control Center
Driver Packaging Version   8.221-060124a1-030152C-ATI   
CATALYST® Version   06.2   
Provider   ATI Technologies Inc.   
2D Driver Version   6.14.10.6599   
2D Driver File Path   System\CurrentControlSet\Control\Video\{93FAB451-45CB-429F-8ECE-EE9583067AB6}\0000   
Direct3D Version   6.14.10.0379   
OpenGL Version   6.14.10.5646   
CATALYST® Control Center Version   1.2.2217.17271   
AIW/VIVO WDM Driver Version   6.14.10.6238   
AIW/VIVO WDM SP Driver Version   6.14.10.6238   
AIW/VIVO WDM NSP Driver Version   6.14.10.6325   

3D settings :

Anti Aliasing :   4x  ,  both boxes unchecked
   
Anisotropic Filtering : 16x , High Quality AF box checked

Catalyst A.I. :  advanced fully right , box unchecked

Mipmap Detail Level : Quality , fully right

Wait for vertical refresh : Quality , on step less then fully right

SmartShader Effects :  None

Adaptive Anti-Aliasing :    Quality , fully right , box checked

GPL grafic settings :

Grafic details : all boxes checked
Level of details : 98%
Resolution : 1600 x 1200

Core.ini  Direct3D7 settings : attention on Z buffer

[ Direct3D7 ]
D3DDevice=0
TossHighestMip= 0                             ; 0 gives best, sharpest image / 1 for lower end cards (image will be blurry)
DoubleMirrorResWidth=1                        ; 1 gives best mirror resolution / 0 lower mirror res for lower end cards
DoubleMirrorResHeight=1                       ; 1 gives best mirror resolution / 0 lower mirror res for lower end cards
DirectMirrorRendering=1                       ; 1.....Use 0 only for problems with image location (i.e. it’s in the corner of the screen)
DisableZBuffer=0                              ; If you use 1, disabling the Z buffer will reduce frame rate by 60% according to the readme.
AlphaThreshold=1                              ; 1 for better cards / 240 for lower end cards (trees look moth eaten)
TransparentMipsDrawOrder=1                    ; 1 for best image / 0 for lower end cards (trees look moth eaten)
TrilinearFiltering=1                          ; 1 for best image / 0 for lower end cards (non-single pass filtering, blurrier image)
AnisotropicFiltering=16                       ; 16.....higher for best image (1 (0 level), 2 (1 level), 4 (2 level), 8 (3 level), 16 (4 level filtering)), enabled in newer cards only
LODBias=-50                                   ; .....Try 0 (blurrier), -50 (sharper), -100 (far textures tend to speckle). Aim for a setting that looks sharp without speckling.




Maybe some useful information in that above.

vsynch wont have any effect on fps but if you run 60Hz and 60 fps it will synchronise the screen refresh with the game frequency. I can detect tearing of tree tops and other trackside objects if I don't have it selected.

For those not seeing any difference between 36fps and 60fps try taking particular notice at tight hairpin type corners where the scenery moves fast across the screen. I think you will notice it is much smoother with 60fps. I have to say I was definitely a 60 fps sceptic initially but I've been converted during my beta testing involvement. Having said that it is purely a bell/whistle type enhancement and I'm still quite happy racing at 36fps.

Tested it on my Gaming pc last night without any issues beyond the sound related ones that forced me onto the other machine...

Solid 60FPS everywhere* I tried including circuits like Monaco rocks and Montjuch in the 69's  ;D
I made the mistake of not disabling the VSync before trying a race offline (back at 36 fps) though and it was horrible, very jerky and stuttery in comparision  :D

For some reason my replays don't play smoothly on this machince though at 60 Hz  :-\

*Not suprising, the specs are:
Athlon 5700x2
2 gig DDR2
Geforce 8800GTX
Audigy 4
Raid 0 (loading times are great ;D :angel:)

I know it wouldn't have a difference, but the patch instructions suggest using forced 60 hz for d3d and v-sync always on, so I thought of trying with 85 hz and v-sync on to see if there are any bugs, but couldn't find any. Perhaps it matters more online with other cars.

ok I have cracked the 60fps barrier, well I suppose its the 59fps barrier to be absolutely correct!! ::)

It appears that it was one of the settings within my ATI catalyst control centre whatsit, which incidentally might have been the root cause of some of my long term graphic probs at 36fps!!

it does seem to smooth things overall which has to be an improvement.

Now to fight the new 65 slipstream patch!!

Which was what? It may help some others to look and see if they have selected (or not) what you had.

ok I will try and extract what settings I am now using and post them here.

No question the wheel to wheel racing and general driving (specifically braking) is much improved with the 60fps patch. Try going back to 36fps and it becomes very obvious.

Just got the 65 patch installed and the crash boxes are a million times more accurate. You can bump your opposition and not cause too much destruction.  8)

This game is like fine wine...it gets better with age.

Cheers.

Will

Thanks Clive, be interesting to compare.

Is there any room left for Wednesday's race?

Kev

Hi Kev, yes you make a full grid.
Hence can't take any more drivers - if you still want to race please post as we could do with a couple of reserves in case anyone drops out
Post race I'll summarise all feedback and pass it on to the developers...

Thanks very much, I'll be there.

Just tested 60 fps patch at the IOM, seems to work fine, it seems to make for more accurate driving, the only noticeable glitch I had was an occasional blurry line across the top 3rd of the screen.

Kev

CPU: Athlon dual core 3 Ghz
3GB RAM
dual nvidia 8600 GTS latest drivers

Sorry, folks, I have to cancel. My other interest, Liverpool FC, is playing an important game on wednesday, and I won't miss it. Someone else can take my place.

You sure Vsync is on? Shouldn't get any odd lines across the screen with the 60fps patch  :)

I would like to apply for a position on the reserves for this race.

Any testing should have entered someone from my group the 'Union of GPL Backmarkers'

Our motto "Anyone can run in front"

LOL.....how does one join this august collective Aulden?

Which part of Liverpool are you originally from?  :P

I'll try it with v-sync on tonight and will report back, thanks.

Kev

Hi Aulden, we have one place left so you are in. Will PM you with details

I'm from across the mersey :)

Saw Carra at the cinema the other day, lol.

Dang - if I was home I'd be super up for this race - great 65 racing with the new patch, and 60 fps to now test, GPL is still pullin' out new tricks thanks to some smart fellows  ;D

I'm from a remote suburb to Liverpool, located in western Norway. :P

You're lucky then. You can't even see Liverpool from there. That would make it the best part of Liverpool.

UKGPL.6 – IP address 80.5.200.198 (if you are joining outside IGOR core.ini is 5/84 – 5/384)
Also, the new 65 patch changes the distance to 23 laps
Remember to switch on the 60fps patch in GEM options prior to joining, password as already supplied. Also, don’t forget to switch it off after the race.
This is very much a test – never been tried with this many drivers on a server. I am not expecting major problems but we are entering the unknown…
Post-race feedback re connection / framerate consistency would be appreciated

bloody scousers everywhere  ::) even the brother in law who lives in New South Wales supports the reds  :o

I have to admit what a load of crap this is!

Screen flickling every few seconds, when it does it tugs my wheel bit.

Also the Lag bar the Q and S are high all the time!

Yet it works ok offline ???

Perhaps i backup to my old one and just use old gpl65 instead.

I think your screen flickering etc would be the 60fps patch not the 65 one...

25fps on grid (normal), 50 and rising at the start then a solid 60fps all the way.
Race - mediocre qually compared to my PB. Spent many laps with an impending sense of evil, just as the evil was about to overwhelm me I disco'd - evil indeed  :D

I think the general feeling is the patch is only any good with top end PC's otherwise big framerate drops. Will feed this back.
Just to reassure everyone there are no plans to use it at UKGPL at present. The only way this could be considered was if ALL drivers could get a steady 60fps.
Will make replay available tomorrow...

Yes, the 60 fps is fine as long as you have a good PC and not really nice when you don't. Driving alone is fine, but online with other cars it's too unpredictable. I was getting 20 fps drop at Parabolica each lap which was distracting and led to mistakes. So for official league races not using the patch would be best it seems.

Shame for the lap 2 incident on the s/f line, it killed any chances for the battle for victory to be between more drivers. I had a rather good battle with Jethro later on.

Burt I have been having the same trouble , yet tonight it was OK , I'm begining to think my ISP  is at fault not GEM  ::)

Hmm I was having a feeling about this, but I wasnt around tonight to try it perhaps i try it on a free server.

Will be watching the replay shortly, but that was the best race I've ever had online, was so much fun battling with people. Had a bloody good tussle with Hristo for about 8 laps, but was wrestling with oversteer in the Lotus at Parabolica. Set some new PBs though with that new slipstream patch. :D

EDIT: My replay's uploaded here: http://rapidshare.com/files/202578188/ukgpl_25022009_60fpstest_monza.zip (http://rapidshare.com/files/202578188/ukgpl_25022009_60fpstest_monza.zip)

I agree Jethro, I've never had so much fun in an online race before. I was rather pleased with my performance, even if I was a tad inconsistent.

Grabbed Pole by one hundreth of a second from John and Hristo but that came to nothing when I bogged down at the start. So I entered Curva Grande in 3rd. The rest of the lap was a bit of a slideshow, I guess my PC can't really handle a full field or cars bunched together at 60fps but it didn't matter too much when me and Jethro had a tangle on the start/finish straight. Initially, I thought Jethro was to blame but, having seen the replay from Hristo's onboard camera, I straightened out too quickly and we touched. So, my fault after all and I can only apologise but I got what I deserved with a fiery flight into the scenery  ;D.

The rest of the race involved catching cars here and there and having great battles with everyone thanks to the new slipstream effect. I managed to find myself in 3rd with 10 laps to go, around 11 seconds behind Nicky but I simply could not narrow the gap down quickly enough. I was about 7 seconds or so behind with about 4 or 5 laps to go and then Tim found my slipstream. So we had a heated battle for 3rd while rapidly catching John and Nicky. On the last lap, I really went for it, under pressure from Tim's Honda bearing down on me and I somehow managed to 1:36.3, about 9 tenths up on my next fastest lap  :-\. Not sure how I managed such a banzai lap but I narrowed the gap to Nicky to under 2 seconds. While all this was happening Tim was reeling me in and I only just managed to hold onto 3rd.

So all in all, the 60fps patch was stable for me when there weren't too many cars around mine although the fluctuations was a bit of a put off. Although good fun, I would rather stay at 36fps for now as the constant frame rate helps considerably when driving. Having said that though, the 60fps patch is a great addition to GPL and maybe when computers improve, we could use it regullaly. Congrats to Nicky for the win :)

So I've seen the replay and I could have had popcorn with it, it was exciting just watching the damn thing! When me and Sam had a tangle, I just kept plodding on, overtaking any and every car I came across. Although I did squeeze Norbert a bit and I think we lag-touched which sent him into the barrier at Curva Grande, which I apologise for. I kept going, and came up to the leading pack with Tim behind them. When he clipped the kerb at Lesmo 2, he went for a nice jaunt across the track into the bush, and then me. Thus commenced the 11 lap battle between myself and Hristo, but not before I had a "moment" at Parabolica that appeared to ruin everybody's race and send me down the order! The only thing I can say is "sorry for spinning in the wrong place", because every time I tried to rejoin, somebody came round that corner and when I tried getting out of the way I ended up screwing more people the wrong way, including Hristo on the barrier at Parabolica. We traded places once or twice every lap, until I couldn't make up my mind which way to go into Lesmo 1 and it sent him into the barrier. I tried being nice and wanted to battle him again, which we did for a couple more laps, but I couldn't keep with him due to me making more cockups in the last few laps than I had all race!

Excellent race though, wish we could do it again! If we have the same thing at Spa, can we keep it clean? I promise I will be fair. :)

and then the view from here

In the regular racing I rarely see 36fps, 25-32fps is the norm for me.  The lowest fps reading today was just above 36 fps going into the banking tunnel.  Most of the race was run within 42-46 fps with no sudden/big drops affecting the driving feedback. 

In this race with the two 60 fps and the 65 patch I had the best time driving that I have had in a long time.
Having the control from the > 36 fps connection and having the drafting effect I was able to actually race with two, three, and four other cars at the same time. I was able to pass drivers who were actually still on the track - and have drivers passing me without seeing a blue flag for it.

My good experience with the two patches may have come with the lesser hardware that I am using.

1.6 ghz, older nvidia card, wheel w/paddles, throttle/brake pedal base, and no FFB

I will use the 60 fps whenever possible, and will keep the 65 mod update patch in full use. Both improving my racing experience.

from the 'Union of GPL Backmarkers' - our second motto "If it wasn't for me one of you would be last"

Hear, Hear. I quite agree...talk about bang for ya buck!!
My system managed 50 odd frames sitting on the startline....with an average 59-60fps all the way round. I did notice a drop briefly to 55 mid way along the back straight....but it shot back up before the Parabolica again and I was too busy to look.
This is the first time I have run in 3-4 car freight trains for more than half a lap, and without the cars in front clearing off. Exhilirating experience....and at this rate Spa should be berserk!!
Any takers for petitioning the Mods to drop normal Monza for the last round, and replace it with Monza10K?
The 65's slipstreaming on the banking would be insane!!....Might test it with the AI first.....lol
Geoff.

Monza 10k has notorious fps problems, which are probably not a factor if you've got a modern machine, but that's not the case with all of us.

Me neither......P4 2.4Ghz, 1gig Ram, Nvidia FX5600, 17" CRT monitor.....just done 2 69 races there with ADC and it was fine, even swapped places with Skingley for the lead, til he spun and took me out....:(
Just a thought, we can always trial it.....

Good to hear, perhaps it was fixed since last time I tried it. We could try it indeed, up to the managment though.  ;D

I'm all for Monza 10k should it happen  ;D

As for last nights race - I'm with the majority here. Utterly fantastic race.  :notworthy:
Got a fairly good start, found myself in 4th or 5th. Then Sam and Jethro did some disco dancing on the front straight giving me 3rd..
1 lap later and I've realed Nicky and John in, another 2 laps and I've claimed 1st, then had it stolen by John, then regained it, then been punted down to 3rd by Nicky being unkind enough to follow John past me on the approach to Parabolica  :hammer:
It was a lap so so after that that I clipped the curb at Lesmos 2 - this was mainly due to an unexpected FPS drop of some 20+fps which distracted me - then as Jethro described we did some hedge trimming together.....
The next battle was with Jethro as Hristo started catching us. Then, acting on Her orders comunicated via pitboard he Kamikazi'd Mr. Walters into Lesmo 1 in order to allow me a clean get away  ;)

From there I just had to concentrate on the best lines I could in order to catch Sam and try to reclaim 3rd, took ages to make up the 4-5 seconds to his slip stream and then a mere lap before I could start counting the bolts in his gearbox. Crosed the line 0.05 seconds behind him according to the race results - I say behind, in reality my radiator was about level with the driver's seat in the BRM  :D
It seems English shire horses may have been used to compensate for my larger collection of Japenese mountain ponies as I just couldn't out drag Sam despite a better exit from Para..  ::)

As for 60FPS patch, it's brilliant off line when practicing/hot lapping, and to be honest I even had a solid 60FPS while waiting for the green flag at the start.
But in the race my problem wasn't so much low frame rates as inconsistent frame rates, like Hristo I was getting about a 20fps drop everytime I started braking for Para and also the Lesmo's complex which added to the difficulty of my various battles.
If I can find the fix for my sound issues on my gaming pc I may try that if we do another test race at any point, I suspect that will be solid 60fps no matter what - however most GPL'ers probably don't run big dual core machines so I'd have to agree that the patch is best not used in Leagues and large races  :)

Bring on Spa!  :angel:

I've posted the results - server replay available here;
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=AOZAW96E (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=AOZAW96E)

Maybe I could run a Monza10k fun race next time we have an available slot...

Sounds like a plan....we HAVE to trial it sometime now we have the goods..... :D

I had no probs with the frame rate, other than one instance going into Lesmo 1, when I froze and jumped forward 50 mtrs. It was a solid 59-60fps whenevr I looked at the readout..have to confess that I did not look at the start, but later I was in  4 car train with Hristo Nicky and Tim (I think) and it was very smooth.
I'm running a dual core 2.4ghz with 2 gb ram and twin 256 graphic cards...not sure if that equates to good...bad...or indifferent in the hardware stakes.

It seems my earlier moans about lack of slipstream might be down to my setup, (although I remain to be convinced! :-\) I thought that following Hristo in another Honda would be bound to show me some gain. But, as with all other cars he seemd able to just drive away from me on the straights. BRM's and Feraris were taking a whole second out of me on the run to Parabolica and again on the s/f straight. Which meant I had to be very quick through Lesmo's and Parabolica the only places I was not flat in 6th gear pulling just under 13k revs to stay in touch.

Although the racing is fun when you are close, I do find it boring when you are flat to the floor from Parabolica to Lesmo 1 ...two quick corners and then flat to Parabolica again...almost like oval racing ::) and all alone!! lol.

As for the 60fps, my old computer handled it pretty well. Frames were never at 60 but never below 50. Only problem I noticed was when looking at the tree tops....the frames look choppy or seem to slide instead of blending together.

The race was fantastic. The new 65patch is amazing. So glad the tow was added as it makes for much more exciting racing. If you spin, you still have a chance to catch up. Before, forget about it...

Thanks Geoff for hosting this test race. Grats to the winners.

Will

If you want I'll send you a setup for Spa so you can compare that with what you're doing Clive  :)
As I said in chat, you simply shouldn't be more than a couple of hundred RPM above 12,000 in the Honda - especially in the high gears, sounds like you were limited by a self imposed lack of power rather than any lacking on the Honda's part.
You'll have to give me a little while if you want a slipstream friendly setup mind, as I have yet to re-hash last seasons  ;)
I'll PM you further tactical Waza stuff when I get home tonight ;)

i just had a little look at the server replay ... and it looks like you gearbox was very "short" , was it your normal 65 monza setup ?

when you were involved in slipstreaming battles , both times you blew up !!!

i noticed that when you were on your own you red lined just before Para , i'm using gears that are close to standard (pre patch) Spa gearing to allow for the extra tow.

john

Cheers for the replay, perhaps with "normal" (no 60fps) GPL this time, as I reckon that'd be the perfect line between compatibility and excitement!

Yesterday the situation was very bad, comparing with a.m. trial last week.

Before joining the server I did some offline tests with Vsync on, on Monza, Montjuic and at Monaco: at Monza 60 FPS everywhere, while at Montjuic and Monaco there was several place where FPS dropped around 45 FPS.

As soon as joined the server I was experiencing 30 FPS all round the track, except from curva Grande to the next bend, when suddenly it rised to 60 FPS.

I disconnected to take Vsync off but, back online, it was still the same.

Then I tried lowering to 74 the detail bias but, again, it was still the same.

Finally, I changed from the full carset to the light one.

It was slightly better: 45 FPS on front straight and 60 FPS from Curva Grande to first Lesmo but, from second Lesmo to Parabolica, again at 30 FPS.

At race start, in the middle of the grid, again 30 FPS.

I really don't understand: was it maybe a connection issue?!?

The race itself was pure fun: this new 65 mod is really awesome. :rockon:

i think the problem is purely due to load on the processor, Hence the problems many of us had when reaching the braking zones to Para/Lesmos.
Graphics only added to that, people with powerfull or dual core CPU's seem to have been less affected than those of us on small to medium single core machines.
GPL makes very little use of GFX cards I seem to remember so nearly everything is done by the CPU, think John can clarify for me  :)
Connection quality shouldn't really affect frame rate as far as I can tell  ???


PS. Clive and Hristo, Have either of you recieved a PM from me? I wrote a massive one and sent it but it doesn't show in my sent items and I'm dreading typing the bloody thing out again!

Yep, got it, not sure about Clive though. And there's no way to attach files in SROU or it's been disabled. Nor we can post our own topics. Wish this could be changed for the future, i.e. have a less controlled sub-forum for sharing setups/small replays/screenshots and posting anything related to league/racing.

Just caught up with messages thanks Tim.... ;D it makes sense to me.

 :) ;) ;D

bloody brilliant .. 65mod with its 2 new updates...it really is.

The Times Thes Are a Changin

simply ask Will Tway how to
or run for upgrading `re PCs , nothing more then a 3 times `get lost in a pub `.

 :o ::)

I must've been lost in a pub.....don't quite understand....but that's normal.  :D

Viva Team Antipasti!!!

That sounds like no vsynch. Do you know whether you have it on or off?

Are you drunk Nicky?  ;D
I can't follow that either  :P

Thanks for your help Ken. The answer is "no". I looked through my core.ini file and noticed Vsynch is "0" for RastV2 but I'm still using the original Rasters.

Your help is greatly appreciated as is your Brab setup for Brands.  8)

Cheers,

Will

Update:

65 Mod runs smooth as silk at Monza with d3dRastersV2 and Vsynch turned off. I don't see an option to turn vsynch off or the old d3d rasters. Thanks again for you help.

A new sport discovered by Will.....150mph Koala spotting!!......... ;D

I've found the only sure way to turn it on and off is in the graphics card settings.

 :D

nope  ;D not all of the time  ;)

may this version is more understandable :

bloody brilliant .. 65mod with its 2 new updates...it really is.

The Times Thes Are a Changin

to all those do think their PC  is to old too handle the new stuff well

simply ask Will Tway how to manage as he said
or run for upgrading `re PCs hardware, should not more expensive then spent money on to  `get lost in a pub `3 times.

 ???does it make sence now   ;D

It would be interesting to know the spec of Will's "old" computer?!

So ... my pc is sempron 2800+ with 9800xt agp card, i can run 60 fps no problem offline without other cars. Online and with other cards fps drop no matter what. Let's be reasonable and not ask ppl to upgrade just for  wishful mandatory 60fps league races. I don't mind if it's 40, 50 or whatever fps, but when it goes up and down during a lap, that's the real problem like already mentioned.

Hi Ken,

Here are the specs to my computer. It's a home build and is at least 3-4 years old.

(http://i42.tinypic.com/2h3x0jt.jpg)


Also I have an ATI grafix card and I could not find any way to turn Vsync off. I even downloaded a tweak program for ATI and still couldn't find a way to turn it off.

For what it's worth, here's my video card options....

(http://i42.tinypic.com/xaqm1e.jpg)

(http://i41.tinypic.com/hwa0kn.jpg)

(http://i42.tinypic.com/2q23211.jpg)

(http://i42.tinypic.com/350js5h.jpg)

From what I've read on RSC it seems most folks don;t use ATI cards. I'd love to upgrad but it's just not in the cards at the moment. Any suggestions on tweaking my old video card would be much apprecitated as would your Brab set up for Brands.  :ninja:

Thanks.

Will


Thanks for your explination Nicky....I get it now. Off to the pub.....

Looking at the sub-text I think your V-sync may be controlled by the 'Wait for vertical refresh' option  :)
Just move it towards the quality side of the scale until it says forced on rather than (I'm guessing here) 'on, if application supports' or similar

FWIW I don't consider that an overly slow system, dual GFX cards may help too if the ATI system works better than Nvidea's did when I tried that  :)

I'll be convinced it's a potential for league use if I can get my really old system to run it, That's something like an Athlon 2700+, Geforce 4600, 2 gig (maybe) ram.
It runs all the old mods without ever dropping frame rates - really doubt it could handle 60FPS patch though  :D

Yeah, V-Sync is the same as "wait for vertical refresh".

 :)
Hi Will , ( and all ) :)

<afaik for ATI videocards ,Vsync could be turn on/off inside Catalyst Control Centre (CCC ) under :
  Display Option : 3D Refresh Rate Override. Inside that popup you can set your desired frequency .
  Guess 60Hz would be the equivalent to Vysnc on if using 60fps stuff in GPL .
  And set to disabled would like Vsync off then .  I am not sure  ….

< as to your 3D settings :
 
  can imagine you already tried before  , but  setting the sliders to very left performance inside :
  Texture Preference
  Mip Map Detail Level
  Wait for vertical refresh

could help  increasing performance.

Play around with that settings a bit . I know its an time bandit to do . But maybe it pays off to try.

< as to the question whats more good NVIDIA or ATI:

   forget it.  I have run both during time and in my opinion there are none difference when it comes to play GPL .
   Its wasted time to think on it.
   But one thing for sure : in general NVIDA cards are more expensive . no matter if old or used.

< to get an idear of how to upgrade Videocard with most less money :

 have a look here :  http://www.3dchip.de/Grafikchipliste/Leistung_Graka.htm#top   ( copy and paste , if link dont work)

as a benchmark ; I run a ATI X1800XT videocard ( see post 83 inside this thread ).

Downside for you is hanging still on AGP slot , cause those videocards are mostly more expensive compared to same level once are PCIe slot versions.

But who know . There is always possibility to have a lucky shot at ebay for example ..

< as to the question whats the bottleneck CPU or Videocard :

   that’s always hard to decide. No doubt.

But in general you can say  ;  stoneage videocard aren’t able to give modern CPUs enough work to do
                                    And ; stoneage CPU wont be able to handle all the datas sent by modern Videocards in time .

< to all ,if there is interest in : I could search german ebay for `lucky shot videocard`or nice price   however it called ..
( I noticed UKebay is a bit less busy and more expensive. well downside would be the extra shipping cost)
   I usually do it anyway . part of my `wake up morning procedure while drinkin cup of coffee.

Regards
NickyIckx

Just when I was about the throw in the towel, I did just a Nicky suggested and moved the texture, mip and wait for refresh options all to the far left and I'll be damned...not only are the frame rates as smooth as RastersV2, I'm now getting a solid 60 fps in the pits and on the track. I believe I only saw 59fps twice.  :)

When I just turned off the "wait for refresh" it had no effect but with all three off...BAM.

The old dinosaur still has a little life left after all.  ::)

THANKS VERY MUCH FOR EVERYONES HELP AND SUGGESTIONS.

You guys rock.

Viva team Antipasti.

Will

<

 :-\ did search via google recently ..still dont get it really .. but
could it be an good idear to set 3Drefresh rate to 60Hz  and then play around with those `wait for vertical refresh slider ? till tearing is more less and fps is more constant ?


.... must be some sort of relation between all this setings ...
 ??? ???

EDIT :  just wrote this while you placed your reply Will .... :D
          cool , nice to hear it works smooth now !!!!!

HERES AN NICE PRICE  PCIe VIDEOCARD AT UK EBAY
(comes with Zalman heatsink fan !!!!! )

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Radeon-X1800Xt-512MB-Custom-Zalman-Cooler-Crossfire_W0QQitemZ320343555052QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Computing_Computer_Components_Graphics_Video_TV_Cards_TW?hash=item320343555052&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A1|39%3A1|240%3A1318

Thanks again Nicky,

Here's one I found in my neck of the woods...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ATI-Radeon-X1800XT-Video-Card-512MB-GDDR3-549_W0QQitemZ330309714259QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPCC_Video_TV_Cards?hash=item330309714259&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

So I could simply just unplug the old one and plug this one in the same PCI slot and be on my mary way?

Cheers,

Will

mom

This is a very good tool for ATI cards. Very easy to set vsynch.

http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=733

Hi Will ,

I guess your momentary Video card  ( ATI 9250pro ) gots an bustype called AGP ( slot version )

check it via everest Home under the folder  between server and multimedia .
sorry do have german everest here ...
 subfolders name then is GPU ... on right hand window search for bustype.

could be PCIe or AGP only .


The Video card you found at your ebay is an PCIe one . Wont fit to an mainboard have AGP slot on .


sorry : my post with that UK-ebay wasnt ment as a hint directly to you , as I got the imagination your running AGP slot mainboard

regards
NickyIckx

I have an X1950Pro AGP which will be going on eBay soon. I killed my cpu/mainboard and will be re-building with a new PCIe MB. I can let you know when it goes on, or you can make me a good offer. I have just been watching one on eBay to see what I might get and it went for £74. Good AGP cards are in demand I think?

Bus Type   AGP 4x @ 4x

Thanks Nicky. It is in fact an AGP. Maybe I'll search for an upgrade or keeping saving my pennies for a new computer. Only problem with that is, it may be a couple of years as I'm using all my pennies for food at the moment.  :'(

Ken,

Thanks for the link. Program works great and is shows I have vsync off!!!

Cheers,

Will

Ken, I just read your post. Let me read up on your card and maybe make an offer but I don't want to waste your time as it may not be in my budget right now. Thanks for the thought.

 :)
Ken ,
 thx for the link


Will ,



following that chart  :  http://www.3dchip.de/Grafikchipliste/Leistung_Graka.htm#top 

I would look only for : ATI X850XT PE, X800XT PE , X800XT , X800XL
                             NVIDIA 7800GT , 7800GS , 6800Ultra ,6800GT ,6800GS

and wont spent more then 40US$

no qustion that ATI 1950pro is the top end of the line AGP card...
(havnt found any ATI 1900GT  as AGP version  ) .

as US-ebay fine search seems to be pretty unorganized make sure its really an AGP card.... ;)

regards NickyIckx

Right on Nicky,

I've bookmarked several and they all seem to go for 50US on up....I'm keeping my eye on this one at the moment....

http://cgi.ebay.com/PowerColor-AGP-ATI-Radeon-X1950PRO-Video-Card_W0QQitemZ250381575313QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPCC_Video_TV_Cards?hash=item250381575313&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

Thanks again for all the help. I think this will be my last upgrade before giving this old Pentium to the kids.....

Cheers,

Will