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UKGPL => UKGPL Races => Topic started by: miner2049er on March 11, 2009, 05:43:49 PM +0000



Title: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: miner2049er on March 11, 2009, 05:43:49 PM +0000
UKGPL Season 17 - Amateurs Trophy - Race 2 - 65 mod - Albi

As somebody famous once said "Albi back!" and it most certainly is.

The second race of the Amateurs Trophy takes place at this French F2 circuit north of Toulouse, but following the fast, open stretches of Spa we find ourselves on a small, tight circuit. Power will be less of an issue here than handling which will even out the chassis allocations somewhat, and hopefully sort the men from the boys, or les hommes à partir des garçons as they like to say in le pit lane.

As always I would remind you to take care on Lap 1 through the intitial section at Courbe Armand Brouzes and again under braking for Double Droite de l’Aerodrome where the field is likely to get compressed again.

The track is by Alain Bosco and is very popular with GPLers, visit his site to download it here: http://a.bosco.free.frgpl/albi67.htm     

This time around we have upped the ante and the Amateurs will race at Pro level with no resets allowed.
Chassis allocations are below- the same chassis will be used for all races this season, unless there is an adjustment agreed by the moderator.  Good luck!

Please use the updated 65 mod for this race.

The 65 mod V2 update is being used by UKGPL and the updated layout features are very welcome, with the ability to record best lap times at addon tracks and to have 65 specific tracks. The new collision boxes are also a great improvement.  Though the new slipstream code will need extensive testing, the preliminary race seemed to show that it would be a definite improvement in racing terms, without the controversy over its extent, as with the 66 mod.

Thanks to all involved with producing the update.  If the new slipsteam code works as well as it seems it might, perhaps it could help persuade the authors of the 66 mod to rework their code as well!

Please be in IGOR UKGPL chatroom by 8:55 p.m.
(You will need to set up a channel called #ukgpl if you haven't already done so)
IGOR and Race passwords: see above (#post_event_password)

Server ukgpl6
IP address TBC
Race date = 17-03-2009
Time = 21:00
Track = Albi
Variant = 65F1
Damage Model = PRO
Qually time = 30 minutes.
Race length = 50% Grand Prix (40 laps)


Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page (http://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=208&theme=6)

CHASSIS ALLOCATION

FERRARI Phil Thornton, Will Tway (reserve), Burtoner*, Asbjeurn*
LOTUS  StormCloud, Dave Randall, Bartosz, Bernie*, Steve Bird*, Geoff65*
BRM  NatanVix, Samb, Ginsters, Steve Bucket*, Ian*
BT11  CliveLoynes, John Roberts, Ken, Jethro, Fulvio
HONDA  EvilClive, Tim, Iestyn (reserve)
COOPER Mike Beattie, Lorenzo, if he joins, otherwise any visiting speed merchant
BT7 Hristo

*drivers also assigned a Novices chassis

65 Mod

These were the 65 drivers
BT7 Bonnier, Baghetti, Hulme (Bonnier drove for Walker)
BT11 Brabham Gurney Gardner Anderson Siffert (Siffert drove for Walker, Gardner and Anderson were privateers)
Lotus Clark Spence Rodriguez Mitter Russo Solana (and Maggs Hailwood Attwood Amon and Ireland for Parnell)
Ferrari Surtees Bandini Rodriguez Vaccarella Bondurant Scarfiotti
Honda Ginther Bucknum
Cooper McLaren Rindt
BRM Hill Stewart

The 1965 season was the last to use the controversial 1500cc formula which had begun after 1960, to the initial advantage of Ferrari.  The 1965 cars are smaller than the 1967 cars and have less torque and hence more grip.  It was claimed that they 'cornered on rails', however this allowed the Grand Prix series to retain the use of circuits which were otherwise to prove extremely dangerous.

The 1965 cars are ideal for those new to GPL as they allow the tracks to be learnt in light reliable cars, however these are also full Formula One cars, and quite fast....  Jim Clark won the 1965 Belgian Grand Prix in a Lotus.  Graham Hill took pole in his BRM P261 with a time of 3'45.4 .  The 1965 distance was 32 laps.

David Wright's 'Legends' site http://fp.gplegends.plus.com/ has the download of the 2.0.1 version (under 'details') as well as being an exceptional guide to both 1965 and 1967, for those interested in Formula One history.  The 2.02 update is available here: http://www.jamesonline.net/ukgpl/1965mod_PATCH_v2.0.2_Setup.zip


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: Jack O'Ferrall on March 12, 2009, 06:49:13 PM +0000
I suppose we were fortunate to get away without 'This is Spa!' last time around....


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: Geoff65 on March 12, 2009, 06:58:05 PM +0000
I suppose we were fortunate to get away without 'This is Spa!' last time around....

We like to think it was superior skill, ability and a demonstration of the respect and high esteem we accord our fellow competitors.  :angel:
Then again, it may well have been sheer, blind luck...... :-\


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: Turkey Machine on March 12, 2009, 09:27:20 PM +0000
Quite like this circuit, seems to suit my smooth driving style. More of a point and squirt affair, but enjoyable nonetheless.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: FullMetalGasket on March 16, 2009, 07:47:42 PM +0000
Can someone confirm that this will be an epic 40laps please - Need to roughly square away a race setup  :)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: miner2049er on March 16, 2009, 08:46:34 PM +0000
Yes it will be 40 laps.

I'll update the race announcement.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: MikeBeattie on March 17, 2009, 07:55:03 AM +0000
I've just registered, hadn't realised there was a Big Boys 65 series :) , is there any chance of being allowed to run tonight?


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: miner2049er on March 17, 2009, 08:51:50 AM +0000
I've just registered, hadn't realised there was a Big Boys 65 series :) , is there any chance of being allowed to run tonight?

Yes, but with part time registration you must wait 5 minutes after the server starts until all the full time drivers have joined, then the reserves (like yourself) can join.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: vosblod on March 17, 2009, 05:45:06 PM +0000
UKGPL.6 - IP address for tonight is 80.5.200.198


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: ginsters sponsored on March 17, 2009, 09:36:31 PM +0000
What a waste of time, go to grid and get nothing but a strobing dash. 


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: Storm_Cloud on March 17, 2009, 09:48:47 PM +0000
I wasted no time at all. Downloaded 65 v2 then Albi at 9.25pm! By the time I got to the server qually was over so I jumped in the car with it still set up for the last race at Spa. My engineer told me to just follow everyone for a lap or two. I hadn't so much as looked at the map, so it was a bit of a journey of discovery. Trundled round in last then passed a recovering Brabham and continued to follow Geoff who fell off at T1. He was well onto the grass so I carried on and then boom - he bounced off the fence as if it was made of Acme Elasto-Stretch and I got stuck in the barrier on the other side.

Shame, looks like a good track.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: Clive Loynes on March 17, 2009, 10:34:38 PM +0000
I wuz Wazzered!!!!!!!


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: MikeBeattie on March 17, 2009, 10:46:11 PM +0000
Finished Lap 1 and engine went pop in T1 :(


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: Turkey Machine on March 17, 2009, 11:25:47 PM +0000
So after thinking I set a pole time and then having it bettered by a tow'd up Tim, who owes me a LOT for that as I'd normally not give a Waza a tow at any stretch, I took 2nd on the grid. Managed to keep it into T1 and onto the back straight, with John close behind me. Enjoying the battle, on lap 3 that kinda went out the window when John disappeared to be replaced by a louder more annoying Hristo who tried every trick and more in the book to get his under-powered BT7 on my gearbox on the back straight. In the end, I reluctantly let him through, and had a few moments elsewhere, apparantly thanks to Sam. Then had a 10-lap or so battle with Dave that ended when he span at the last corner and I unavoidably t-boned him, killing my engine. Not happy, but that's the way it goes, I guess.

Would like the server replay ASAP so I can see what happened. :)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: Samb on March 17, 2009, 11:40:28 PM +0000
What a great race that was. Quali was incredically close with the top 10 covering less than a second. I found myself at the recieving end of the pile in 9th, which became 8th when Ginsters had to pull out when suffering technical problems. After the start I remained 9th and began a nice battle with Dave, overtaking him a lap or two later. I then began to overdrive slightly to catch Clive infront but that just caused small errors which lost me time and falling back into the clutches of Dave. At some point I passed Jethro when he had a moment and I promptly spun in front of him a lap later  ;D, losing two places to him and Dave. Thanks for avoiding me  :).

I then calmed down a bit and drove a consistent remainder of the race. I found myself in 6th with about 10 laps to go, but I couldn't catch Dave enough to get into his tow. Losing the back end on the last two corners paid to my chance of gaining 5th, but 6th isn't so bad. At least I finished this race. Maybe next race in the 65s i'll be able to do a whole race without spinning. Ohhh the thought of a mistake-free drive   :angel:


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: Hristo Itchov on March 17, 2009, 11:52:41 PM +0000
Glad for 1-2-3 for Wazas, but I wasn't that happy with the race. Qualifying was amazingly close, but with the lack of power in the little BT7 I had no realistic chance of winning so my initial plan was to settle back and wait to take advantage of any chances that might appear.

The car ahead of me had a bad start so I passed around it and then it seemed the people behind had problems as I found myself relatively undisturbed in 4th with Tim, John and Jethro up ahead. They opened a good gap early on but by battling each other they allowed me to catch up and I was soon into Jethro's slipstream who at the same time was in John's slipstream, and all of that on the approach to the hairpin. I lifted up early (or so I thought) to build up some cushion for emergency action, but while Jethro braked late enough John started braking much earlier and I had no choice but to move to the inside and follow Jethro in the braking zone. It got a bit too close but somehow I braked on time but then John attempted to take the corner normally after probably not seeing me go for it there. It all made sense later when I realized the server was showing just 1 car behind, so that was very unfortunate.

I kept my momentum and attacked Jethro soon after, thus moving up to 2nd. He spun off on the next lap so now I had Tim at about 2 seconds ahead and Clive 1 second behind. For quite some time this remained unchanged, but eventually I managed to close on Tim and we began a long battle which also allowed Clive to mix it in.

At some point Tim went off at the hairpin, but as I was fending off Clive he managed to catch back, but a few laps from the end both of them dropped back after a contact or something, so I just completed the remaining laps on my own.

I hope that in the next race we'll have all the top runners battle it out to the end.

-=Hristo=-


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: Dave Randall on March 17, 2009, 11:57:54 PM +0000
Thought i'd qualify better than 8th today which I mistakenly thought something in the mid 1:15's would be good enough for.  Wrong!!!  The competition for this series is clearly tougher and closer than that.  I felt I had good pace in the race, but it wasn't enough to get right up to the sharp end.  Had some good battles though, especially with Jethro who had fallen back after a spin.  A good long close battle followed, although I was hoping we could pull ourselves up to the top four of Hristo, Clive, Tim and (Evil) Clive but I think we held each other up a bit by scrapping.  Unfortunately I was to eventually lose it in front of him (sorry Jethro!) which was a disappointing end to some great racing, although managed to hold on to 5th despite a persistently strong charge from Mr Blood.

Anyway congrats to Hristo, Tim and Clive, looks like Clive was a bit unlucky by coming off the worst in a great three way battle at the front.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: Doni Yourth on March 18, 2009, 12:09:25 AM +0000
Grats to Hristo, Tim and Clive for scoring the podium hardware.  Good run fellas.

Apologies to Fulvio, Will and Steve for in-race incidents.

I got a ripper of a start and vaulted up from P13 to P9 by T1.  I was hanging on nicely when I went a little too wide and spun the T77 in the far hairpin.  Coming to a stop mid-track, I saw John Roberts coming and let him thru.  The way behind looked clear so I revved up and popped the clutch to get the car heading back down track again only to see Fulvio appear out of nowhere...evidently a lag issue...at the last instant.  WAMO!  Poor FP smashed up and off the road.  My very great apologies.  A few laps later, I gave Will a fright by touching the verge on the outside of T1 and going for a full 360° loop directly in front of him.  He made it thru but sadly, not Steve who in checking up to miss me as I accelerated away, flew off the road to be bisected by a guardrail.  So very sorry for that, SB.  :(  All this and it wasn't even close to half distance.

For the balance of the show, I just paced myself letting Will slip away til his Ferrari engine failed.  Bad luck that, Will.  Just brought it home keeping an eye out for the leader coming up to lap me.  Made it with a bit to spare.




Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: Geoff65 on March 18, 2009, 03:24:02 AM +0000
Incident packed Albi!
Quallied with full fuel and set a time within 3 laps that I was comfortable with. Started second last and had a quiet first couple of laps to let the carnage (if any) ahead subside a bit before settling in to a mid/low 17's groove in a fat car. I had some speed on Dave's BRM, but hung back to have a look at him for a while. Storm wasn't a threat at that stage behind me as he was learning where the track went!! Lap 3 and Phil had a bobble at DD, rejoining just in front of Dave and I. I got a good run out of DD and contemplated an inside pass on Dave thru Parc. But as Phil had been slow out of DD, I wrote that idea off and braked early up the inside into Parc, comfortably holding the inside track. Dave and Phil held the brakes a long time into Parc and seems they were very slow turning in. Anyway the upshot was, Dave wiped my nose into Parc, I guess not expecting me to be there....but he sadly paid the ultimate price and got tipped on his noggin. I was still gently on the brakes when hit, so I suppose that helped me get off lightly with a short trip to the outfield. Sorry Dave if I surprised you. I was looking forward to the 3 way stoush with you and Phil.
Rejoined and continued chasing Phil down, but on lap 7 got it all a bit wrong thru the 1,2 and 3 combination and ended up against the fence on the exit of T2. Storm came thru immediately following, and the replay shows a minimum 8 feet between our cars at that point.....but still Storm got a lag hit that spun him into the infield fence, where it held him fast and forced his retirement. I'm also wondering wether a second lag hit from Fulvio going by didn't make it worse? Sorry Storm, no luck at all for you lately.
Got lapped by the leaders sometime later, and the 1 car back setting on the server made that a dodgy situation as there were actually 3 cars line astern.
Lapping cars actually helped drag me up from about 10 seconds behind, right onto Phil's gearbox. I spent a couple of laps applying pressure and trying to force an error, but Phil was equal to the task and covered his lines well. In the end he forced me to try an outside pass thru Parc, that happily came off without a hitch...then tried to put some space between the Fezza and myself. Phil lifted his workrate and hung on grimly....I couldn't shake him from my slipstream, even setting my fastest lap for the race didn't discourage his demon braking into DD. Finally on lap 38 Phil had a wee lose in T2, giving me a little space, to breathe, and ultimately bring it home in 8th place...:)
Grats to the Wazza's for their clean sweep...(grumble....groan....LOL) You guys were best on the day.
All in all not too bad considering the crowd on such a tight strip of bitumen....very few collisions considering.
Geoff.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: fpolicardi on March 18, 2009, 11:17:03 AM +0000

Apologies to Fulvio, Will and Steve for in-race incidents.

I got a ripper of a start and vaulted up from P13 to P9 by T1.  I was hanging on nicely when I went a little too wide and spun the T77 in the far hairpin.  Coming to a stop mid-track, I saw John Roberts coming and let him thru.  The way behind looked clear so I revved up and popped the clutch to get the car heading back down track again only to see Fulvio appear out of nowhere...evidently a lag issue...at the last instant.  WAMO!  Poor FP smashed up and off the road.  My very great apologies.

Doni I wouldn't have expected such a move by you, why didn't you put rear to get out of track?
It seems that the server was set with only one car visible behind, that's why you saw me at last instant. Could the admins check the Bandwith server settings please?
My engine died two laps later even if I didn't overrevved it  :(

Next one


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: Will Tway on March 18, 2009, 11:57:57 AM +0000
Yes that was a lot of fun. I too can't believe how the competition has stiffened up. Brilliant. I too had 'no cars behind' at the start and got mugged by a bunch of ghosts.  ;)  I also noted a request to take it easy in T1, which I will never do again. I only lose 2-4 positions every time I do.  :o Lap 2 I saw Phil dive off trying to avoid me at the end to the straight. I think I may have hit the brakes a wee bit too soon. Sorry mate. Eventually settled into a decent rhythm and worked the red-thing up to 7th and was looking good but my number was up and with maybe 15 to go, she expired. I was about 8-9 seconds behind Sam and was pushing too hard and hoping for a miracle.  :angel:

Grats to H for a remarkable drive in the BT7. Hats off to Evil and Tim.

No worries at all Doni, that's Albi. Love it or hate it....I love it.

Cheers,

W





Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: b_1_rd on March 18, 2009, 12:07:15 PM +0000
I was cross with myself for losing the car under braking to avoid a spinner (turns out to be Donnie, np, all racing, if we don't have incidents then we're not racing hard enough).

I took things very easy in qualifying and was towards the back of the grid, which was the plan, with an expected first lap pile up that I have a knack of getting through, normally.  I have come to the conclusion that way doesn't work so I have now decided enough of the slow steady approach and to take a more risky but hopefully more exciting flat out style.

I don't expect to be knocking the door of the rocket ship formation that is the lead group straight away, but I think I stand more of a chance improving my own driving than sitting well within my own comfort zone being polite!

Anyway, well done to the podium.

I echo the request for a review of the 1 visible car behind setting, which I think Tim is onto already.  Thanks for the server, it behaved well :)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: EvilClive on March 18, 2009, 01:20:39 PM +0000
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I can only say that you were warned ::) and you had the chance of joining the winning team for this season.

THE WAZAS ARE BACK!! ;D

Despite a plucky and impudent performance by a green thing, nothing could stop the Waza steamroller at Albi.
1st-2nd-3rd  muhahahahaha
She almost smiled.

Her team tactics were implemented to perfection with a cunning assault on the front row of the grid, consolidated by a clean start with all 3 cars in the leading group that pulled a gap from the rest of the field.

Tim was flying and holding the lead with Hristo a couple of places back, waiting for a passing opportunity. Evil waza played a waiting game and riding shotgun back in 6th spot protecting the newly developed engine in the interests of reliability, still not sure how hard to push this flying machine.
There appears to have been an incident or two and eventually there were 4 cars in the leading pack...3 Wazas and a green thing.
Unworthy evil made a small mistake which allowed the green thing to pull away and audaciously harass the honourable Hristo.

As it was a very long race I decided to hold my pace and revs to ensure a finish rather than push too hard. It was easy to maintain a 5-6 sec gap to the battle in front and be ready to take advantage of any "incidents". ;)

As the fuel level came down I found it easier to push and with about 10 laps to go decided to reel in the green thing and go for a 1-2-3. Just as I was getting close, fear and recognition of the Wazas superiority got to the green thing and he correctly parked at the hairpin to allow me free passage into 3rd spot.
There was a temptation to go for 2nd place and personal glory, but She would not have been amused if the team had thrown away a whitewash ( ;) ) of the green and red machines, so the Wazas cruised home in formation and glory. ;D ;D

Remember..

All our victories are belong to Her ;D








Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: vosblod on March 18, 2009, 02:23:14 PM +0000
Server replay posted at the usual place. I'm looking into the issue re only seeing one car behind.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: Podkrecony_Ziutek on March 18, 2009, 04:31:28 PM +0000
That wasn't the happinest race for me.

Qual: PB and 10 place on the grid.

Race: First half of the race was pretty good, but later I lost my concentration and made few stupid mistakes. Last one finished my race.

Grats to all finishers, and to the Wazzaz(this time force was on your side:D )


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: Clive Loynes on March 18, 2009, 05:07:32 PM +0000
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

....................., so the Wazas cruised home in formation and glory. ;D ;D



Subject to moderation of course.

I'm sure the Cerk of the Course will want a word with the driver of the white bulldozer!

Suppose I can think myself lucky that Evil left my wheels on after his cohorts had duffed me up!


Might need a few of the lads in to stop so many white cars making it to T1.  ::)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: Turkey Machine on March 18, 2009, 05:23:32 PM +0000
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

....................., so the Wazas cruised home in formation and glory. ;D ;D



Subject to moderation of course.

I'm sure the Cerk of the Course will want a word with the driver of the white bulldozer!

Suppose I can think myself lucky that Evil left my wheels on after his cohorts had duffed me up!


Might need a few of the lads in to stop so many white cars making it to T1.  ::)

Relax, Clark-Hill will make sure She doesn't make it into T1 at Kyalami. :D


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: miner2049er on March 18, 2009, 08:52:33 PM +0000
Submit your incident reports please gentlemen (and otherwise).


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: FullMetalGasket on March 18, 2009, 10:52:34 PM +0000
I think if I was to describe last nights race in a single word I would have to choose 'Intense'!

Can't say I enjoyed it over much as I was concentrating too hard to do so.

Qualifying was a PITA. My first lap ended in a rather comedy impalement in the barriers at Parc, I could imagine hearing Evil chuckling at me as he motored past  :-[
I quit back to the pits and threw all the changes I'd made in creating my race setup onto the qualy one and set out again - Car was much better, first flying lap gave me pole  :)
This had reduced to about 8th before I even finished the next lap due to people getting laps in with drafting and warm tyres to help them along.
I spent near enough the entire qualifying session on my own squeeking out the odd tenth here and there, If I caught anyone it was generally in the wrong place to be of use! With 3 minutes to go I found myself in 7th I think....
Finally at the end of the session I came out for last blast to find a car approaching from the rear, I let it pass on the approach to DD so as not to hold them up and found myself behind Jethro - I think he's covered the result of this quite well himself. Yes, I do owe you a beer or something for that  :angel:

Got a cracking start to the race and exited the first corner complex far enough ahead of the pack to be safe from them catching my draft - the next 8 laps or so were spent concentrating and trying to eek out more space....
When Hristo appeared behind me my first thought was 'great' as I assumed this to mean a royal battle for 2nd had now commenced between him and Jethro - the one car behind setting ment it was several laps before I realised that I may not actually be that safe.
I pushed harder and concentrated harder, it worked for a bit as I managed to hold the gap for a lap or two. Then H started taking small bites out of my lead, only a tenth here and there but enough. He had caught my draft after 6 laps or so and then got past me, we then commenced swapping places every few laps until I totally missed my braking point into DD while alongside him :o No, that wasn't some sort of demented heroic outbraking maneuver, I simply forgot where to brake  :scared:
The resulting off somehow managed to do no more than very minor damage to my steering while dropping me to 3rd. I then had a good seat to watch Clive and H going at it for some 10 laps or so while following closely.
It all ended badly after one of Clive's attempts on Hristo into DD went wrong and he appeared to loose the backend - having been in exactly the same position in Clubmans on Sun with Phil loosing it in front of me and trapping me because I went wide - I decided to go as tight as possible so as to avoid Clive without being caught. Even put half the car on the grass to try and ensure I couldn't even achieve any sort of lag contact - Then unexpectedly Clive's car regained grip while still pointing towards the inside of the track and lurched infront of me. Thanks to my two wheels on the grass attempt at safety I couldn't slow enough as I simply locked up both right wheels and tapped Clive lightly on the rear spinning him :(
As I said after the race Clive, I'm sorry it ended that way - particularily as my position was largly choosen to avoid contact rather than instigate it  :-[
From here on it was a chase to the finish with Evil nipping at my heels and H slowly dissapearing into the distance at a pace my race weary Honda no longer seemed interested in trying to match.  ::)
Nice to have a 1-2-3 finish but not happy how it came about - I'll submit my replay of the bump if you want to take it to the moderators Clive, and let them make the decision. Must admit I was kind of hoping it was one of those cases where GPL hadn't drawn the angle of your car correctly and you'd spun before crossing my path, but it would appear not.
Roll on the next one  :thumbup1:


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: Burtoner on March 18, 2009, 11:36:26 PM +0000
whats a waza doing driving the Brabham?  :P


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: Turkey Machine on March 19, 2009, 12:01:33 AM +0000
whats a waza doing driving the Brabham?  :P
What the hell makes you think I intentionally gave Tim a tow? It was as much about my lap at that point as his, as at the time, I decided if the first 3 sectors according to Prib were anything near my best (a tenth or so in it), I'd keep going, otherwise I'd have let him go on his merry way to the end of the lap - as it turns out I did my best time and so did he. He owes me big and has said as much. :P


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: john roberts on March 19, 2009, 02:45:44 AM +0000
I got a ripper of a start and vaulted up from P13 to P9 by T1.

so you don't always agree with a no passing before turn one rule :)

john


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: b_1_rd on March 19, 2009, 08:59:10 AM +0000
Isn't it just a well timed and coordinated lap to position one's self to get a tow and achieve a potential fastest lap?  ;)  You still have to keep it all together to get the lap anyway.  It just so happens someones infront breaking the air for you.  ;D


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: FullMetalGasket on March 19, 2009, 09:01:41 AM +0000
Jethro was breaking wind infront of me?    :-\
Think I'll follow someone else next time!  :hammer:


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: Geoff65 on March 19, 2009, 09:35:11 AM +0000
Jethro was breaking wind infront of me?    :-\


Last time we let you have a curry before a race Jethro!!   ::)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: vosblod on March 19, 2009, 09:55:24 AM +0000
I've reset the bandwidth patch so you should now see two cars behind  :thumbup1:
Unfortunately, with RSC being down, the fartpatch is unavailable so we can't prevent drivers breaking wind  :wacko:


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: Doni Yourth on March 19, 2009, 11:41:37 AM +0000
John:

I have no difficulty with the ADC's T1 Rule as I laud its desired function...to avoid startline shunts and get everyone into and thru T1 in one piece.  These first few seconds of an on-line race...much as in real life...are the most dangerous with respect to collisions.  Having said that, I've still seen, been involved in and even caused some T1 grief in their races.  Poop happens even at the best of times.

I know that most here at the UKGPL frown or even scoff at such a rule but you must realize that it is their policy and has been arrived at thru considerable observation, discussion, debate and experiment.  The ADC is not a group of timid wankers just throwing up a rule for the H of it.  That rule exists for a good reason.

Over here at the UK, the policy is different and I can readily adapt to that without reservation.  I'm all for realism.  Running PRO damage is the primary reason why I'm here as, lately, I found the ADC policy of allowing unlimited shift-R's unsatisfactory.  As for my start @ Albi, I got away well initially, checked up for a split-second as I accessed Will's somewhat slow start directly ahead of me, determined that I might be in peril from those behind me if I backed off entirely to stay in behind him, put the throttle down hard again and swung out into pitlane ala Masten Gregory to make a pass.  I had good momentum and was able to cleanly pip Pod before T1 as well.  All done with safety in mind and not the slightest iffy move.  We all made it.   :)

My only regret of the meeting was drilling Fulvio down in the far hairpin which was the unfortunate and reverse case of 'now you seen him...now you don't'.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: b_1_rd on March 19, 2009, 12:26:49 PM +0000
I said "breaking the air"  not "breaking hot air"  ::)  There's already enough hot air in some of the races from some old farts!  ;)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: EvilClive on March 19, 2009, 01:07:58 PM +0000
whats a waza doing driving the Brabham?  :P

I think if you asked Hristo to swap his 65 Brabham BT7 for a real car ( the 65 Honda) you would have a lot more to complain about!!  :o

Plus Hristo would find it all too easy!! and the other drivers might organise a protest meeting. ::)

Actually, we are having problems developing a white paint that will stick to the little green machine that the Wazas have adopted. The ultrasonic scream of the engine and the high speed causes the polymers to decompose and peel off. :-\


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: Hristo Itchov on March 19, 2009, 08:44:18 PM +0000
whats a waza doing driving the Brabham?  :P

I think if you asked Hristo to swap his 65 Brabham BT7 for a real car ( the 65 Honda) you would have a lot more to complain about!!  :o

Plus Hristo would find it all too easy!! and the other drivers might organise a protest meeting. ::)

Actually, we are having problems developing a white paint that will stick to the little green machine that the Wazas have adopted. The ultrasonic scream of the engine and the high speed causes the polymers to decompose and peel off. :-\

If the competition stays as close as it was at Albi and people keep improving more and more there might soon come a time when running the Honda wouldn't actually be considered inappropriate. I'm looking forward to that.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: Clive Loynes on March 19, 2009, 09:02:46 PM +0000
LOL    Don't hold your breath H!    ::)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: miner2049er on March 24, 2009, 10:21:05 AM +0000
This is being modded tonight ladies and germs.

Last chance.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: Hristo Itchov on March 25, 2009, 08:47:53 PM +0000
I see both Tim and myself have penalties for this race, I would like to hear the judgment on that.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: Turkey Machine on March 25, 2009, 10:10:29 PM +0000
Erm, it may just be my eyes but nothing's been finalised yet. Unless I'm missing something on the results....

EDIT: For your penalty, if you have been given one, I imagine it would be for that so-called pass you attempted on John Roberts.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: Hristo Itchov on March 26, 2009, 01:51:22 AM +0000
Erm, it may just be my eyes but nothing's been finalised yet. Unless I'm missing something on the results....

EDIT: For your penalty, if you have been given one, I imagine it would be for that so-called pass you attempted on John Roberts.

Jethro, you're going over the top me thinks. First of all, you can see penalty points in the standings. Second, I wasn't attempting a pass but merely avoiding jr by going to the inside after he braked earlier, so I'd appreciate if you don't speak as if you were in my shoes.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: Turkey Machine on March 26, 2009, 08:48:32 PM +0000
I see the PP in the standings against yourself, nothing against Tim though, so I'd guess nothing's been finalised as the moderator's report has yet to be published.

And of course I'll defend John - he's my team leader!!!! ;)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: FullMetalGasket on March 27, 2009, 08:38:50 AM +0000
As much as I don't like to look a potential gift horse in the mouth...
Am I supposed to be classed as the winner of this race now and recieve the full 50 points, or is the leaderboard playing silly buggers?


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: Hristo Itchov on March 27, 2009, 10:03:15 AM +0000
Lol, I see penalty rulings for this division have abandoned the usual UKGPL rule of describing the why's of a reasoning behind a decision. Despite having presented you with a thorough description of my point of view you say I was having a "ridiculously ambitious overtaking" attempt when it wasn't even an overtaking attempt. I'm disappointed to say the least, it almost comes as an insult.

Whoever modded this I suggest you look at how other people mod the other divs and take notice as to learn for future events. As it is atm it seems pointless giving our own view of the incident if you had already made up your mind.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: Clive Loynes on March 27, 2009, 10:22:22 AM +0000
Hristo, I think that you need to send an email to Phil to lodge an appeal.

Better than using the open forum and requests for them to "look again" that are expressed here do not constitute an appeal.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: Hristo Itchov on March 27, 2009, 11:30:31 AM +0000
Hristo, I think that you need to send an email to Phil to lodge an appeal.

Better than using the open forum and requests for them to "look again" that are expressed here do not constitute an appeal.

Sure... I was just expressing my surprise and disappointment. 2 places penalty for avoiding an early braker and not taking anyone out just left me speechless for a bit. Thanks.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: miner2049er on March 27, 2009, 01:16:45 PM +0000
Whoever modded this I suggest you look at how other people mod the other divs and take notice as to learn for future events. As it is atm it seems pointless giving our own view of the incident if you had already made up your mind.

I modded it and yes I am new to it this season but all decisions are based on discussion with other moderators who have overlooked the same race incidents.

As Clive suggests, if you wish to appeal, do it through the proper channels.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: Turkey Machine on March 27, 2009, 04:58:23 PM +0000
Lol, I see penalty rulings for this division have abandoned the usual UKGPL rule of describing the why's of a reasoning behind a decision. Despite having presented you with a thorough description of my point of view you say I was having a "ridiculously ambitious overtaking" attempt when it wasn't even an overtaking attempt. I'm disappointed to say the least, it almost comes as an insult.

Whoever modded this I suggest you look at how other people mod the other divs and take notice as to learn for future events. As it is atm it seems pointless giving our own view of the incident if you had already made up your mind.
Mike has shown to be a very capable mod in his short time doing so, so far, and granted while he's not as verbose as others in his reports, they at least get the gist of things across. So kudos Mike, keep at it. :)

The phrase "Ridiculously Ambitious Overtake" should ring bells Hristo, since you took John out of the fight for the victory and rendered his car almost undrivable. At least that's what I could tell.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: Phil Thornton on March 27, 2009, 06:52:32 PM +0000
The formal appeals process is to PM the Chief Moderator as described in the rules under driving standards (http://www.ukgpl.com/index.php/rules/league).

The moderators usually confer and reach a consensus before a report is published.  So an appeal is only likely to be successful if either the moderators did not get a chance to confer (and if they had done a different ruling would have been made) or new information has come to light that was not available at the time the report was published.

In an effort to try to improve the consensus and hence make appeals less likely.  I published a set of penalty guidelines (http://www.ukgpl.com/index.php/rules/penalties) in an attempt to describe a set of scenarios for each type of incidents and the severity of penalties that could be awarded.  In order to describe the scenarios I had to give them descriptive names that relate to the varying  degrees of severity.  Hence the terms "Contested Overtake", "Marginal Ambitious Overtake" and "Blatant Bad Rejoin" etc.  I could have used any number of adjectives to describe the "Ridiculously Ambitious Overtake" scenario such as "Over Ambitious", "Ill Judged", "Inappropriate", "Crazy" or whatever.  The important thing is does the description (The overtaking driver had not achieved any degree of overlap at turn-in. The overtaking driver WOULD have made the corner. Penalty for overtaking driver.)  match the incident?  Moreover do the set of scenarios cover most eventualities and are the associated penalties appropriate?  These scenarios are reviewed by the moderators and updated as appropriate.  There has not been a necessity to change the guidelines very often so they do appear to be fairly robust.

On the subject of the style of mod reports, this is very much down to the moderator (and how much time they have).  I generally like to write in the third person (to make it less personal) and start with a description of the incident (so everyone agrees what actually happened).  This is followed by a ruling describing the rationale and interpretation of the rules where necessary.  This does take some time an practice to get right.  Kruger Enge used to produce some outstanding reports but I know it took him a long time and he moderated quite a lot of races before he perfected his style.  Just look at this report (http://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4652#event1412) (new moderators don't bother I don't want to scare you off!!!) an object lesson in moderating!

Finally the moderating team, Jack, Syd, Clive, Mike and Tim.  I am very grateful to the moderators who give up their own time to organize the races, start the servers, review the incidents and produce race reports.  Not only that, they provide servers and web space for no remuneration whatsoever.   I couldn't wish for a better bunch of guys to work with.  This was Mike's second report and I think he did very well in sorting out some contentious incidents.  Thanks Mike, it will get easier, honest  ;)



Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: john roberts on March 27, 2009, 07:08:21 PM +0000
Sure... I was just expressing my surprise and disappointment. 2 places penalty for avoiding an early braker and not taking anyone out just left me speechless for a bit. Thanks.

you took me out .. or have you forgotten that ?

john


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 17 (2009) Amateurs Trophy - Albi - Mar 17
Post by: FullMetalGasket on March 27, 2009, 09:01:15 PM +0000
Just look at this report (http://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4652#event1412) (new moderators don't bother I don't want to scare you off!!!) an object lesson in moderating!

Dear god that must have taken some time!  :o
Although the link above is making me reconsider, I would be happy to help out as a spare incident moderator if required. I wouldn't trust myself to launch servers ect but would be perfectly happy to give my own little bit back  :thumbup1:
Just aslong as I didn't have to moderate myself that is!  :laugh: