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The main reason I was slow to get enthused about P&G was I just found it too hard to get the cars to do what I wanted them to do, to be an enjoyable experience (i.e. I ended up spending more time off track then racing).

But I've reached a stage now where I've done sufficient P&G research & enough experimenting myself with the cars (specifically the setup process) to really quite enjoy driving the cars (but don't tell MJ). 8)

I figured that if I shared what I've learnt here, it might help some of the other guys that are struggling with P&G/Setups get more enjoyment. There have been plenty offers of "I'll give you a setup" from some of the guru's & some of us have been sharing some setups online, but hopefully something like this thread can help people explore the setups more for themselves (I know I get satisfaction out of taking a car & making it more drivable). That way you're not stranded if someone doesn't get round to doing a setup for you or you might just be interested but not got the hang of it yet.

I'm also hoping that some of the pro's will be able to add (or correct) to the suggestions that I'll list that currently help me.

I also wonder if what I'll type will lead to more questions then answers, if that's the case, please ask here. Hopefully I (or someone that knows what they're doing) will be able to answer any direct questions.

I also want to point out, I'm not trying to give you the perfect setup here, initially I'd just like to help anyone that wants it to get their own cars to a more drivable/enjoyable & hopefully quicker state.

The theory is that when working on car setups, you shouldn't change more then one thing at a time... but time & interest levels may be in short supply for messing around in the garage & I'm looking for the quickest/easiest improvements not perfection (yet). I've prioritised my list in order of what P&G seems to respond best to (i.e. if you haven't sorted stage one & two, you wont get the best from stage three).


P&G setup priority list (The following assumes you're already familiar with the track).
Stage one:
Choose the car you want to drive.
Set the fuel & wheel rotation  to a level you're normally happy with. Choose the tyres you'll most likely want to run in the race (click left to get the softest tyres available).
Save your current setup as step 1.
Do some laps, three or four would normally be more then enough to work out if the car understeers/oversteers or both & when?

I've found that for me (& my driving style), generally the cars all understeer on their default setups. They understeer while accelerating, while power is off & while braking.


Stage two:
Gear ratio  (did it need to be longer or shorter)
Rear ride height  seems to work best when about 3 to 3.5cm higher then front ride height in P&G. (keeps the weight over the front of the car, which helps get round a corners generally)
Power Diff, I find it easier to drive the cars generally with this set lower (at about 20% normally for me) & also easier to corner (but I know some prefer it set much higher, usually the faster drivers)
Coast Diff, if you're going along a straight then take your foot off the accelerator to coast round a corner (at about the right speed), if the back end doesn't come round as you try to turn you've got power off understeer & reducing your coast diff a few clicks will help the rear come round. Alternatively your rear end might fly round too quickly as you lift off the accelerator (see Porka's ;)) & you might want to increase your coast a click or two.
Save the new setup as step 2.
Do some laps, three should be about enough to find out if your changes have helped, made a problem worse or the changes have given you the opposite problems? Is the car good while power is off but still understeering when accelerating perhaps or the other way round?

Now you might want to try increasing/reducing or even reversing the changes you made in the last step if you think it could help. You should probably do that before progressing to the next set of suggested changes & perhaps saving your setup as step 2a before doing a couple more laps to confirm any extra changes are helping. But if very short on time, perhaps combine further changes with the next stage.


Stage three:
If the car is still understeering generally, decrease the front springs  and/or increase the rear springs  by a click (the opposite ways to reduce oversteer).
Front Toe, seems to be set on all P&G cars to "+0.20", I'd suggest knocking that down to around "0.00" for now if you're struggling to start turning in. (It will also help reduce front tyre wear & increase top speed).
You can also help the car turn corners easier by reducing the front anti-roll bar  a click (or the opposite to discourage oversteer)
Think about adding a couple of clicks of castor if the car is still understeering, or maybe remove a click of camber to reduce oversteer.
When you brake hard from speed, does the rear end stay straight or try to come round on you? If it's staying very straight try moving brake balance  a click towards the rear. If it's coming round too easily move the balance a click to the front.
Save the new setup as step 3.
Do some laps, three should be about enough to find out if your changes have helped, made a problem worse or the changes have given you the opposite problems? Does the car still have the same problems? Try reviewing the previous step & adding another click here or there to help a specific problem, then saving the changed setup to step 3a.


There are more things you can change (I've not mentioned tyre pressures/rear camber/rear anti-roll bars/front & rear bump & rebounds/rear toe settings), but hopefully I've not confused you too much at this point & you've now managed to remove the biggest problems with your selected car had & you've made yourself a decent basic set up in less then half an hour? (you'll get quicker as you repeat it with more cars)

I had a go at setting up a few cars while online the other evening, jotting down the changes I was making as I went & why (the jotting down took a lot longer then the setups!). I'll stick them on here when I get a chance, as seeing someone else going through that process helped me more then anything. They will include changes to some of the remaining settings as I tried to improve the cars further.


p.s. Thank you to anyone I learnt any setup stuff from, so I could share it here  :). Hopefully someone will benefit.  :-\

Who are you? and what have you done with our Legzy?

 :laugh:

 :lol:

I fear Legzy has been abducted by  :alien: ... he's one of the 'Others' now...

Thanks for the pointers, oh alien Legzy  :notworthy:

:lol:
It's scary how I can know this stuff & still be so slow!!! :laugh: :o :( ;)

Front soft, rear hard, max steering lock....gogogogogogo ;D

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Add this very useful guide to your work here young padewan Legzy  :)

http://www.g33.co.uk/suspension_theory.htm

Always useful.  :)

Sorry it's taken longer then I hoped, here's how I set up a Cobra Roadster at Goodwood:


Step One
Changes
Fuel to 20 laps
Steering lock to 30 deg (feel this works best with my G25 wheel rotation)
checked which tyres i was running (i.e. soft/medium type)
Results
After doing about four laps (already very familiar with track), I found the car to under-steer badly all the time, but was worst when accelerating.
Laptime = 1:32.1


Step Two
Changes
Reduced Power Diff a few clicks
Reduced Coast Diff a click (increases oversteer when not accelerating)
Reduced gear ratio couple of clicks
Increased rear ride height to 3.5cm higher then front ride height (basically helps the car turn more)
Changed front toe to 0.00 from 0.20 (makes it easier to start turning the corner)
Results
After only a few laps it was obvious this felt so much better, only light under-steer left to fight now.
Laptime = 1:29.7


Step Three
Changes
Increased Caster a few clicks (makes it easier to turn)
Reduced front rebound a click (increases oversteer when accelerating)
Increased rear spring a click (increases oversteer generally)
Reduced gear ratio a click
Reduced front anti roll bar a click (increases oversteer)
Increased rear bump a click (increases oversteer when accelerating)
Results
Few more laps & again small improvement was felt getting round corners more easily etc
Laptime = 1:28.6


Step Four
Changes
Deflated both front & back tyres a click
Increased rear bump a click
increased rear anti roll bar a click (increases oversteer)
Moved brake balance a click to the rear(reduces stopping distance & increases chance of oversteer when braking)
Results
It gets harder to feel the problems/improvements when you've sorted the worst problems, but again some minor improvements felt to make the car easier/more consistent to drive at pace
Laptime = 1:28.2


By this point I'd realised I was going to be too fast in this car for what the clubmans race was aiming at, but in fairness... the car was pretty much ready anyway. Took me less then thirty mins to finish, yet I could have happily driven it after stage two or three, so ten to twenty minutes effort maybe.

Hope this might help someone explore setups more & get the best from their driving. :-\

If you have a setup for the Mustang in P&G that makes it anything other than a supertanker that'd be great.  Getting it to turn in to a corner would be a start.   ;)

My favourite GTL tourer turned into something I really didn't enjoy driving last night. >:(  Had relatively soft front (med bars) stiffer rear (high bar) 20% diff and 54/46 brake, lots of castor and was not good, fronts wore out faster than the rears, something I strenuously avoid in all sims, I must have a loose rear.  ;D

understeer happens, specially with a big engine in the front and skinny tires, being smooth is important in these cars...

Not to hijack your thread ;) but for GTR2 a setup guide was made by some guys at RSC a long time ago.

Of course this also applies for GTL and P&G albeit them having less setup options.

GTR2 Setup Guide (pdf) (http://www.langamers.it/gtr/Guida_setup_GTR/Guida_GTR2.pdf)
GTR2 Setup Guide (xls) (http://www.mc-kci.net/GTR_Guide_Setup.xls)

Thanks Jimmie, that was one of the tools I found & used to try to learn more about this stuff a year back. It is good (though I did find a much better one elsewhere) & works well for GTR2 & GTL.
But while I was previously happy setting up cars for both GTL/GTR2... P&G seems to require setting up the cars in a slightly different order. That's been my finding anyway. The settings do the same sort of things, just the 'priority' (or importance) of some of the settings seems to have changed.
Quite a few people have been asking for setups & I thought I'd put together some easy to follow steps here at SROUK to help... rather then having to search the web.
Anyway, that's why I created this thread.  :)