SimRacing.org.uk

UKGPL Season 17 - Inter-League race - Monza

This is the fourth Interleague race of our season 17 and will use the 66 mod.  Our guests will be the international league Atlas F1 Legends, who are normally based at Race Sim Central, so they will be under a slight handicap!  UKGPL won the first race between our clubs at Spa last season, with Hristo taking the flag.  The race returns to the earlier start time of 9pm UK after the late night race last time out.   Each league is to field nine cars, and there are no chassis handicaps, drivers will be racing to complete the distance and score points for their team.  Let's have a cheerful UKGPL welcome for our guests from Atlas F1!

Please be in IGOR UKGPL chatroom passworded 'Savage' by 19:55GMT, (You will need to set up a channel called #ukgpl if you haven't already done so)
Igor and Race passwords: see above (#post_event_password)

Server 6.ukgpl
IP address TBD  

Race date = 19-04-2009
Track = Monza (GP1955-71)
Variant = 66F1
Damage Model = PRO
Qually time = 35 minutes.
Race length = 34 laps (complete 32 laps to score points as a finisher)

Chassis assignments will be posted here when finalised:
BT19
one of the BT11 versions, driver to choose
one BRM, driver to choose between P261 and P83
Cooper
one Eagle, driver to choose between T1F and T1G
one Ferrari, driver to choose between 246 and 312
Honda
one Lotus, driver to choose between 43 and either of the 33 versions
McLaren

If you'd like to represent UKGPL in this race please post on the thread and advise what chassis you'd prefer.  Driver lists and points scored can be found on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=209&theme=6)

So because its 66s, I assume iGOR will be the one to use, not VROC? ;)

Can I take the BRM this time? :)

I'm available if you need a driver, don't mind which chassis :)

Maybe the Honda for me?, but as long as I know in time to sort out a setup ( 48hrs?) I will drive anything.

For the moment:

evil in Honda
Jethro in BRM
Mike in BT19
me in McLaren

The rest are going to follow when I figure it out. Bookmark your chassis if you prefer, before I assign any.

If y'all need me, I'll take anything.

Sure, Will, thanks! You take the Lotus!  ;)

Still up for grabs! The following cars:

one of the BT11 versions, driver to choose
Cooper
one Eagle, driver to choose between T1F and T1G
one Ferrari, driver to choose between 246 and 312

You know you want it! Grab it while it's hot! Don't miss this one time offer!

Well as long as there's no surprise last minute patches I'm in for this if you want me.

I'm available.  Will drive anything with wheels.   ;D

Napo-bomb takes the Eagle and Doni takes the Ferrari!

Two cars remaining:

one of the BT11 versions, driver to choose
Cooper

Secure your position TODAY!

Ok, I'm down with the 33 BRM.

Cheers,

Will

Glyn (Neil) won't be doing this one. :)

Check.  I'll be winding up the Ferrari 312 in the coming days to hone a recipe.  TY, H.

We still need at least a couple more volunteers for the UKGPL team for this race, though the Clubmans drivers should be aware that the Clubmans round 4 is at the same time.

I will not be able to race sunday....

Cheers

Lorenzo

I am not available on Sunday. Sorry.

I guess I could ask my wife if she'd like to have a go at this one......... :taz:

I'm not doing Clubmans, so I could punt the 2.7 BT11 if you're still in need of a pilot. Let me know.
Geoff.

Hi guys :)

I hope we will have a great race. We are still assigning cars, but I think we will have this sorted out tomorrow.

One question: which grid are we going to use ? In AtlasF1, we use original grids but whatever you use is ok :)

I would be surprised if it's anything other than loose grids (1x1), but I've known stranger things to happen. :D

Hi :)

About the RaceSimCentral topic, they had been hosting the AtlasF1 Legends League forum since late 1999 and we never received any previous warning when they went down. This implied we lost contact with all our 3 Divisions´ members for about a month. Fortunately, we could get a new home at Speedgeezers early in March, so we could start racing online again without any significant problem. To make this possible, we had the great help of Bill Cooper and Keith Smith-Gillespie.

Thanks, Geoff, we're severely short of drivers so without hesitation - you're in!

Here are the current assignments, someone please update the first post so it's easier for people to check the chassis:

Evil Clive......................Honda
Jethro Walters..............BRM
Mike Beattie.................BT19
Hristo Itchov................McLaren
Napo Bonaparte............Eagle
Doni Yourth..................Ferrari
Geoff Heard..................BT11
Will Tway.....................Lotus

One car in need of a driver:
"Sob, sob, nobody wants me!" - Cooper

-=Hristo=-

Ah, thanks Will, I knew I missed one!  ;D

EDIT: Ok, fixed above.

Right on. Looking forward to this one. GLA.

W

Just started some practice with the White whale (intermediate 66 version). ;D

what sort of lap times are we getting around here ( should I be aiming at!) in the 66's?

Would guess 32s?! Won't know until I start practicing tomorrow.

 :o  hmmm! I need some practice me thinks :-\

Well that's only based on the 66s record UKGPL has, held by Hristo "Mr Record" Itchov in that Lotus. Probably low 33s are doable with your pace and car. :)

Consistency is key - just aim to finish! I know I am! I have more chance of doing that at Monza than any other track!

Anybody got a good setup for either the P261 or P83? At the moment, I'm majorly leaning towards the P83, as I managed 1:35s, without much changes to the default setup, and I could probably hit 33s with better braking and acceleration. I did 1:36s with the P261 and was struggling to extract any more speed from it.

Hristo, it seems your short of a driver again so I'd be happy to step up this time as well. Maybe the engine will last a little longer this time  :angel:.

Great, Sam! The Cooper is yours!

Anybody in the Ferrari should probably be aiming for 32s if possible, as that's a quick car round here. Others would do well to hit 33s and 34s. :)

Done a couple of 35's in the BT11, one tow-assisted the other not.....good enough?

Mid-33's as my best in the Ferrari 312 in tests yesterday.  Might be able to go a touch faster with a slight revision to the recipe.

I'm good to go!   :)

My server (ukgpl.6) is being used for this, IP 80.5.200.198 (IGOR). One query, the post says race is 9pm + be in IGOR for 7.55pm. I'm taking it this is a 9pm kick-off

That's 7.55pm GMT, i.e 8.55pm BST. Yes, it's a 9pm kick-off, it's just a bit clearer for those abroad.

1955 UTC start, 2055 UTC+1 start.

Geoff, that's fine! I did consistent 35s with a full fuel tank, and managed 34s and 33s in a tow.

We'd all do well to be aware of those who are demon on the brakes. For the record, the BRM P83's a bit spongy into Lesmos and Parabolica. ;D

See you later guys !!

and good luck :)

so anyways I had to reinstall my windows crap 2 weeks ago on a new hard drive. I'm trying to install gpl66 with gemcrap. So I don't set the controls. I can't reset them in gplc66. but they work in the original gpl.exe. So I figure I delete those gplc66 and rebuild with gem...haha no dice now I can't press the green button when I want to go into training or any of that other crap. Seriously just tell me WHY. WHY. WHY do you have to make this so difficult and screw up everything. GEMCRAP and you people who made it can go to HELL!

Now if I don't make this race which I'm trying to, you know why. ::)

Napo, as long as I'm captain of this interleague team I wouldn't be needing your services anymore. I have no interest in dealing with people that speak nonsense all the time and do nothing to support their words and claims, plus go focus your hate (or madness) on someone else, I'm not interested. I've been patient enough trying to deal with you, but you refuse to change your approach.

If people want to see Napo back then let me know so I step off the captain position. My policy doesn't include people who only (foul) talk and don't even race, let alone provide results and only look for excuses.

As for the race, Stu went a bit too hot into Lesmo 1, went wide, I followed on the inside, but then he spun into me and I got stuck in the railguard. Spent half a minute getting out of that but by that time the engine was damaged and there was no way to finish within points scoring race distance. Shame because I had a good setup and could've definitely finished in the top 6.

See you next race,
-=Hristo=-

Not too good this race. Qually'd last in the big toad, not unexpectedly. Got a careful start and held it all together thru the carnage at the Lesmo 1 minefield and set off after Will, Jethro and Natan half a second up the road. Pegged them back with higher corner speeds and picked up Wills tow on lap 4....Drafted past him down the SF straight hoping to get on terms with Natan in the Atlas toad. Sadly, turning into Curve Grande the clutch dropped out on the road in little bits. Right in front of Will....sorry mate, happy you could avoid me. End of the day I'm afraid.
Congrats to the podium and any who finish.
Geoff.

Maybe you should try backing up your talk by actually finishing a race yourself...talk about hypocrisy ::)

Handbags at 10 paces girls. :)

That was a good race, I really enjoyed that. The start was really good, took it easy into Curva Grande, lined up behind a car for Lesmo 1, and then all hell broke loose in front of me as I tried avoiding somebody who'd decided mating another car with the barriers was a good idea! Ended up 4th after lap 1, kept that for a couple laps, lost a couple places to others who were quicker, then had the best spin of my life. Why best? Cos it went round 90 degrees, missed the barrier, kissed the catch fencing, and didn't completely trash the car! Lost about 20 seconds, and a few more places, and then proceeded to take it easy from there on in. Had a great battle with Bob for most of the race, and the last 10 laps or so I pulled away and focused on reeling in the 5th placed guy, in the hope that I could pass him and put one up for UKGPL. As it turned out, he was a late UKGPL participant. The final result was definitely in Atlas' favour - 1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 8 for them and probably more finishers. 5, 6, 9 and 10 for UKGPL. Replay I saved wouldn't let me have the results, so when the server replay's uploaded, gimme a shout please! :)

Track: Monza             Sun Apr 19 17:30:48 2009

RACE RESULTS (After 34 laps)

Pos No Driver                          Team     Nat Laps   Race Time       Diff    Problem
 1  32 Paul Skingley66                 Ferr 312 GBR   34  53m15.646s           
 2  38 Robby Hunter66                  Cooper   GBR   34  53m15.707s    00.061s
 3  30 john roberts 66                 BrabBT19 GBR   34  53m15.804s    00.158s
 4  12 Arturo Pereira 66               Honda    ARG   34  53m54.398s    38.752s
 5   4 Stuart66 Bartosiak              EagleT1G GBR   34  54m17.586s  1m01.940s
 6  14 Jethro Walters66                BRM P83  GBR   34  54m18.167s  1m02.521s
 7  18 Bob66 Berman                    Lotus 43 USA   34  54m40.237s  1m24.591s
 8  22 Patrik 66 Lindqvist             McLaren  SWE   33  53m27.307s   1 lap(s)
 9   2 Sam Blood                       Cooper   GBR   33  53m27.411s   1 lap(s)
10  10 Will Tway                       Lot33BRM USA   33  54m12.333s   1 lap(s)
11  40 natan vix 66                    BraBT117 BEL   12  19m45.060s  22 lap(s)
12  24 Geoff66 Heard                   BraBT117 AUS    5   8m21.984s  29 lap(s)
13  16 65 evilclive                    Honda    GBR    0   0m00.000s  34 lap(s)
14  36 Mike Beattie66                  BrabBT19 GBR    0   0m00.000s  34 lap(s)
15   6 Colin McRae66                   McLaren  GBR    0   0m00.000s  34 lap(s)
16  26 Donnie Yo66                     Ferr 312 CAN    0   0m00.000s  34 lap(s)
17  48 Ignacio Genta 66                BRM P83  ARG    0   0m00.000s  34 lap(s)
18  44 D Clayton                       EagleT1G USA    0   0m00.000s  34 lap(s)
19  28 Donnie Yo67                     Ferr 312 CAN    0 DidNotStart  34 lap(s)
20  46 6 UKGPL                         Cooper   GBR    0 DidNotStart  34 lap(s)

I normally post them the day after when I get into work - should be in the usual place early morning...

Cheers Will. :)

Atlas F1: 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 7th, 8th. 6 finishers. 18+17+16+15+12+11=89 points.

UKGPL: 5th, 6th, 9th, 10th. 4 finishers. 14+13+10+9=46 points.

89 - 46. Atlas convincingly the winners that time out. Revenge well and truly dished out stone cold. Congrats. :D

Kinda gruesome, that.  :(

Stu Bartosiak was driving for us?  Ya coulda fooled me.

need i say monaco ?

john

Whats that ment to mean?
Because of 1 incident that wasn't entirely my fault? my only mistake was getting a bit sideways in lesmo 1 then Hristo was flying up the inside and as the car corrected we touched, blame can be delt 50/50 for that one imo.

Talk about ignorance! I finished every race I've been to with the exception of those I've been taken out. I'd appreciate if you stop spreading false information and include my name in every 2nd thing you say, in chat or here, regardless if you intend it to be a joke or not. Knowing you you'd probably try to twist things around to make it look different for those who were not in chat at the time you open your big mouth, heh.

I'd understand if we were like communicating often so I'd see any fun in that, but as it is I see none at all. The way you do it atm is appear once in a while and instantly begin to blabber on and on from the moment you enter the chatroom. It's either about "gemcrap" or how much someone sucks (me in particular), yet you've not even entered a race recently let alone deliver any results to back up your claimed superiority.

It's so ridiculous I don't even understand where your confidence for doing all that comes from, so I'd put it down to madness. And clearly you see nothing wrong in anything you do or say, or perhaps you just don't care. Well, be sure you'll get the same in return. You obviously fail to see the respect and care in the way others were/are treating you and counting you as a valuable member of the team (in this case), with some people going as far as trying to solve your own problems yet all you could do is flame, on and on...

In case you do all of that just for your own amusement let me tell you that you do it so often, that it's impossible to tell when you're serious, if ever, or not. I'm sure you'll find someone that has time and desire to enjoy and see benefit in your current personality, but until you resort to some deep self-conscious thought process, look somewhere else.

-=Hristo=-

Stu, actually I don't think anyone is to blame. You entered too fast, went wide, I naturally followed to the inside (can't just disappear or hit the brakes and stop inside a corner all of a sudden, actually I went on the grass but that didn't help), your front end gripped, so you turned back in and we collided. Racing incident I suppose.

Not putting the blame on anyone because everyone makes mistakes and lap 1 is very high pressure as well as it's difficult to be aware of all cars around you.

My only suggestion, to anyone in general, would be to keep in mind the race is not 1 lap long and it can only be lost at that moment.

Unfortunately Hristo, being taken out is no excuse for not producing results.

I don't twist things around or lie for that matter. But reading your current post obviously you do lie. I never said anyone sucked, nor did I mention I was superior to anyone. I have chatlogs to prove that.  You don't appreciate your claim about I spreading false information(which I most certainly do not), yet you just go about spreading false information. This backs my previous comment referring to your hypocrisy. All I asked in chat was for help to resolve the issue. I did not flame anyone.

I would suggest you choose your words carefully from now on...

Lol, listen to yourself!  :o

First of all, I don't even have to excuse myself in front of you to begin with, it was a response to your insolent talking to ppl how I crashed out. It was merely a fact I stated after you made false claims based on apparently total lack of information and an aim to mislead people.   ;)

Second, I'm sure you can extract words and twist information from chat logs so it suits your means well enough.  ::)

The facts remain facts, so try and bail out of it as much as you want, but what's done is done and obviously you fail to see yourself in fault even the slightest, for anything that ever happens with you involved in it...

I can only say it's unfortunate and shame, because you had a potential (and perhaps still do). But projecting your own complexes over me won't work.

Apologies to the rest for spamming the topic, but it just had to happen eventually. It'd be the last I say about this, sorry again.

Grats to Atlas for a well deserved victory!

Thanks Hristo :)

We really had very good luck in lap 1. I think the race´s result was clearly determined by what happened at both Lesmos in that lap. From then on, it was a matter of driving carefully and with consistence to bring the jap thing home in one piece :D

I saved my replay and watched what I could see of the incident in Lesmo 1, and imo all started as a racing incident, perhaps a bit of warp, between a Honda and a Brabham. All the rest happened while the guys behind were trying to avoid the pieces, including me. I was fortunate enough and some others too, but some were not.

Thanks to all the UKGPL drivers and administrators for these events !! :)

Congratulations for a comprehensive victory to Atlas...we was wupped!!!! :-\ Well done all those who scored for UKGPL and made it to the finish.

After struggling to find a setup ( and /or technique!!) that allowed the Honda to actually negotiate Parabolica (without involving gravel or undergrowth) and at something approaching racing speed, I was not feeling too confident about this race.
Early qually was spent still fine tuning the race setup and trying to put in a "banker" lap, but without anyone in sight to offer a tow
( must have a shower and change my aftershave I think) the best I could manage was about 8-9th.

A quick glance at the qually times was a little alarming with Rob, John and Paul and Art hogging the front of the grid. UKGPL were nowhere it seemed.
So I ordered Arnold and Mable Glutbucket my (un)trustworthy pit crew to remove all excess weight from the Honda and prepare for a banzai lap!! the honour of UKGPL was hanging in the balance.
As usual, they failed miserably in their task and I left the pits still in full race setup!!! but just in time to see the sneaky trio Rob Paul and John sweep past in their slipstream syndicate.

I was able to close on their little group over the next lap until I started to pick up the tow, hoping that they would keep going for a couple of laps..which they did.
That pulled me up to 4th, I think, which was not too bad ::)
Another lap and I ended up splitting the front trio with a 3rd place on the grid..but would it stick with 10mins of qually left???...it did. ;D

I knew that as I was running a high 1st gear to protect the engine and that might be a problem off the grid with another 15 cars up my exhaust pipes. I lost a couple of places at the start but was ok with that, as I knew I had the speed to stay in touch on full tanks.

I was very aware of the possibility of carnage in Curve Grande and managed to sneak around there unscathed still being careful on cold tyres.
Approaching Lesmo 1, and things looked a bit congested up ahead so I slowed just to be safe......HA! safe my backside!!.. one of the leaders clipped the armco and sent panic waves through the following cars.
Mike Beattie who had slipped up the outside of my Honda was forced to pull towards the apex to avoid what looked like certain death if he stayed wide. I was not absolutely certain that I did not have someone sneaking up on my inside so could not take evasive action other than brake hard and hope!! :-\

Mike's car clipped my front wheel and bounced into the armco and certain death, I managed to squirm through a couple of recovering cars and aim for Lesmo 2......
It was then that I realised that all was not well as the car at first refused to turn in and then violently switched ends...I'm sure I had not set it up to do this??!!

The rest of the field streamed by as I recovered from the grass and I set off again in last place...definitely not part of the game plan.

The high gearing of the Honda pulled me back up to the next car as we approached Parabolica and a realisation that this was the end of my race!! ..........apply brakes ..........change down ...............apply right lock..........car turns LEFT!!!!.....hello gravel trap and fencing!!!!....  Game over .... :'(

All that anticipation and excitement turned to dust.

I think I might have kept the fast guys in sight at least, and maybe got amongst them with any luck..but playing it safe and cautious at the start just seems to have left me in amongst all of the mayhem with obvious consequences.

So, next time I will take pole position and blast off into the distance all on my own...seems like a good plan to me...what could possibly go wrong with that??? :laugh:

Yes, Congratulations Atlas. Great race although you won't catch me in the Lotus BRM33 again anytime soon.  8). I think I should have risked crashing the 44 instead. If it wasn't for a couple of BT11's, my race would have much more agonizing. Plus I thought JR was on our team and was watching the leaderboard  (not much else to do) and noticed he was only a fraction of a second behind the leader. So I plotted on and on and on and on....................................

Looking forward to Albi. Hopefully in the P261.  :D

Cheers and thanks to the organizers.

Will

sneaky , sorry don't you meant "team work" ?

looking at the results and the server replay it does look like when UKGPL drivers were not taking each other out they were fighting against each others , this can't be a good way to run a team can it ?

john

not this time I wasn't , well I like to be on the winning side like last time ;)

well I would have driven for UKGPL but when I read the thread the cars that I would have liked to have driven were taken so I raced for Atlas instead , was the date of this race changed ?

maybe there is a better way for picking drivers/cars and maybe even doing some proper practice (you wont be surprised to hear that the Atlas guys had some practice and also had a practice race for the team) , because none of use want to lose do we .

john

I agree that more practice would be a good idea John, but it seems that with our timetable of race commitments and server access getting people free on yet another evening is difficult.........unless of course any of you guys know differently ???

well the Atlas team did a practice race early Saturday evening , but my guess is that a practice race for the team a day before on the Saturday afternoon/evening would be the best time and a chance for the team to jell and work out some tactics for the race .

that way you can see if you have the right people in the best cars for the race to maximize your points .

working together as a team and not against !

john

Well, that was certainly an interesting race. It was a shame that so many people fell victim to the Lesmo curves on lap 1. I was among one of them. A Ferrari ahead (sorry can't remember the name) ran wide and started wall sliding. For me it was a case of deja vu and as I was sliding along the barrier. A Brabham, in my mirrors, hit the walls at considerable speed, causing chaos behind. I lost a couple places with my incident but continued regardless as the Cooper seemed okay.

For a few laps I had a nice little battle with Jethro, till I snatched a brake at the Lesmo curves and lost the back end into the barrier. Had to wait for almost the entire field to pass. Thanks for avoiding me  ;D. Now the Cooper wasn't in such good shape. I bent the steering and there was still 30 laps to go. I kept on going as I really wanted to finish and despite have to keep steering left to keep the car in a straight line, the engine was still working so I saw no reason to quit. After recovering, I was catching Will and Geoff until his engine had enough at the Curva Grande. Passed Will later on in the lap and for about 10 laps the race was rather lonely. I spun again (twice!) at the Lesmo curves :cursing:, hitting the barrier again. With the steering already out of alignment, the car felt very odd now.

Eventually Patrik caught me after my arguments with the Lesmos and we then had a great battle for 8th. I spun, yet again at the Parabolica and the 2nd Lesmo this time within a few laps, but the next 10 laps or so were gold. Me and Patrik were having a hard fought but fair battle which was very enjoyable. Unfortunately though, he outbraked me at the Parabolica on the last lap and snatched 8th from my grasp. So, I'm happy with a finish, but I really wasn't happy with my performance. I haven't made that many mistakes in a single race for a long time. I guess it's my inexperience with the 66 cars but there's no point making excuses.

Congrats to Atlas for the convincing win!

That's because all the Atlas cars were at the front! :P

The only time I had a serious battle with somebody was after about 5 or 10 laps, when I battled with Bob. I wasn't intentionally going to battle Sam, as I thought he had good pace, but in his case, excrement happened and it put him down the order! ;D I'd have finished higher, but for the one cockup at Parabolica, which I maintain was down to the car snapping sideways and not my fault. At all!

I trust a thread for the Albi race against oAo will be going up soon, yesno?

OK, first up I have to say Sorry to all those who were knocked out by my bump with Evil. Certainly, I was gutted and I know Clive and Hristo were too. I'd run an hour or so of testing to get a good set-up and was really looking forward to a great fun, line astern race. I'd got a good start from 8th on the grid and had made it to 5th by Curve Grande. I'd a really good set-up that gave me plenty of drive out of the Curve and was able to draw alongside Clive, but backed off early for Lesmo. I kept it wide, but saw the Ferrari doing its Wall of Death act ahead, and had to move in, and the rest is history.

Secondly, grats to the Atlas TEAM, 'cos in my opinion that's what they were, and certainly they had a good drag act going in qually :) It paid results.

OK can I now put some thoughts on the Inter League races, both as Team Captain of the ADC team and as a UKGPL runner.

First off, they are a darn good idea, and really worth keeping on with. The interest they generate in the Clubs/Leagues UKGPL challenge is great, and certainly in the ADC it has become, in its short history, and event to be part of.

Bearing this in mind, I think UKGPL should run the Inter League (I/L) events as standalone races, not part of a Season. With the many well supported Divisions that you have, the Inter League events are crammed into what is a rather crowded calendar.

What to do? Well, I would make the I/L races a once a month event, to try and make them that bit more special. As JR has pointed out Atlas had practice sessions, we at the ADC had 3 selection races for folk to show what they were best in. All were invited to Try-Out and I had the final selection, which was made after the 2nd race. It gave us a good team of drivers, though mind you I still had one guy who had a major tech problem, that I was not aware of, which ultimately lost us the race, so I can understand where Hristo is coming from.

Next is the way to win the event, and believe it or not, it is NOT to win the race. The vast majority, if not all the races, are won by the team with the most finishers. With only one point between places, the emphasis is on reliability not speed, though obviously you need to get one or two high scores to help along.

So this is a TEAM race, totally different to any other race you do. I know it rubs some folk up the wrong way, but I would prefer all the drivers in my team to have Pribula, so that you know immediately who is ahead and behind. If its a team mate and he's fast, let him past, or give him a tow or don't pressure him if you are not under pressure yourself. Again having the practice races lets everyone in the team know who is on their team, as there are various folk like myself, who will sometimes be UKGPL and other times not.

Practice makes perfect or PPP PPP ( Prior Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance )  :D

Finally, though it's nice to win, look on these events as GPL bonding exercises, we're a decreasing number of guys running a 10 yr old sim, the good will that these events generate between the Leagues cannot be underestimated. I for one, only found out about UKGPL through  the I/L and I'm sure there are others out there too. So keep it a bit of fun and try and keep the tempers in check :)

Heh, JR, for someone who excused himself with "I wasn't asked to drive" as a reason not to race for UKGPL the above makes no sense. As I said in the beginning of this season, if we're to be successful we need a regular team instead of me or Jack'O chasing drivers via e-mails, pms, etc. before each race. The registration thread is out there, the race threads are out there, the schedule as well, so whoever is interested and serious, it's easy to do so.  ::)

As for the cars, if we're to assign everyone to their car of choice there would be no end to disappointment and people skipping races just because they didn't get what they wanted. Besides, I have long realized winning is not important in this interleague challenge, but rather occupying the middle spots, so that's how car assignments work and the only reason I agree if someone asks for a certain car is because it fits that strategy. I can bet you that without the carnage of lap 1 your podium occupation wouldn't have made much of a difference to the overall points result. Even so, as I said, regarding the circumstances you deserved to win, so enjoy it.  ;)

And as for team work, unless all of us use Pribluda it's just about impossible to tell who is who on track, especially in qualifying. At least I can't think of a different way that doesn't involve a lot of private chatting, lol.

About team practice, we can do that if someone can host and there are enough volunteers, we'll see next race.

EDIT: Just saw your post, Mike, good stuff! I agree obviously about the points and wins situation, which also reinforces my view that car assignments are not so important to be down to personal preference, but overall pace distribution. I also agree it would be much easier if those races were run separately, if nothing else it wouldn't overlap with Clubmans as it is atm. It's difficult to find a day/time that suits all though. Oh and I think GPL users aren't a decreasing number, have been seeing many new faces lately. Regardless of how old the sim is, it's an undeniable fact that there is just about nothing better yet. Definitely not with these type of cars. Plus I find it looks better with the addons than most modern sims, more immersive in a way and not so cartoonish.

I believe that I did register for the inter league (and have driven in all of the races , this and last season) , that being the case why didn't somebody contact me ?

however the race thread I hadn't looked at till the other day (was the race date changed?),  so what I said does make sense or cant you understand ?

well we had a proposed team for Zandy and I was a member of that , guess you have dropped that idea , did something change ?

strange that I can drive and not use Prib .

john

That's a great post, and how big team races should ideally be run. If we can do this for Albi we've a great chance of a good result.

If there are those who don't have or don't want to run Pribluda (and to be honest, I think you're mad not to - it may provide a lot of information but crucially you can turn bits off, the important ones are the standings and live positions, tyre indication just makes ya paranoid!), that's fine. But what about TeamSpeak or Ventrilo for voice chat?

Incidentally, while I would have preferred the BRM for Albi, as I like the P261 and P83 in 66s, Will appears to have that one bagsied, so to speak, which is fine, but what about the following solution for those drivers with the same preferred chassis: if the drivers put a first and second choice chassis, and if there's still conflict, ask them if they'd consider a third choice, and then draw them randomly out of a hat, then that could be a good decision maker. Comments?

I don't know if the race date has changed, it's not my responsibility, so it's up to everyone to check the schedule and announcements regularly, if possible. In your case I don't see a reason why you should be contacted considering you're one of the registered drivers and you made the previous races (of which I'm well aware of) - that instantly positions you as one of the first drivers to jump in and keep an eye on how it goes. If you were unable to do so for outside reasons, good, but you never said so.

There are some of the others who have also registered yet nobody has heard from them recently. Instead of writing to people, chasing them around and waiting for a reply thus gambling until the last moment whether or not they'll show up, it's much easier and more practical to form a secure team for each race by letting everyone interested to just drop a word on the race thread (and specifying their car preferences if any). Then let the captain handle chassis assignments. That's how I see it.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean about Zandy and apologies if I was meant to remember... could you clarify?

As for what you said in the end, you must have telepathic abilities and are able to recognize who is who on the track without any outside information. I don't use Pribluda and there's no way I'd know who's driving that Lotus in front of me, for example.  ::)

Perhaps what Mike said is right and we should use Pribluda, even if only for Interleague races. I guess I'll give it a go to get comfortable with it.

EDIT: Jethro, it'd be good if drivers have at least 2 prefered chassis on their list, it would make it much more easier. Also, in the case where it's unavoidable to give a prefered chassis, I could let the drivers sort it out between themselves. Otherwise I'm going to assign whatever I feel is better, even if it contradicts with what the drivers think.

Thanks for your comments Mike.  Its good to know that others are genuinely enjoying these races and actually look forward to them.
It seems that others take these races far more seriously, than I for one, imagined that they would.

I never expected "selection" races and full on practice races to be run prior to the real event, maybe that shows how just how much we underestimated its popularity.  :o

I think we at UKGPL had better "up"our game ::)

It seems the idea of Interleague racing is doing what it was intended to, i.e. build bridges and bring GPL'ers closer together. Originally it was seen as a way to generate more interest and combat dwindling numbers and the leeching away of members to things like iRacing
( cough , spit, splutter!!).

Ironically, Hristo is also correct that since we ran the first Interleague race the 65 and 66 mods have attracted some new faces to try this great sim and the majority seem to be hooked just like we are , so the future of GPL looks pretty good for a while yet.

We did consider trying to make it a Challenge League, with "home" and "away" matches between all participating teams and points scored totalled at the end of a season.
But I think the logistics and organisation of such a competition ( plus perhaps the ground rules) might require considerable time and effort from all sides.
Maybe that will evolve as all leagues develop more communication between themselves in the future, but the danger is that it becomes a league of alien only teams...which was definitely not the intention :-\ and I cannot see a way of legislating against that eventuality.

So for the time being lets enjoy the extra spice of racing with a full grid and slightly different priorities and look forward to regaining some pride next time we meet.  ;D

True, Evil, I certainly hope they're not going to turn into alien events, because if that happens I don't think I'll stick around for long myself. There are enough divisions and other leagues to put my efforts to and this Interleague championship is more of a side event for me. Yet I've seen some of our competitors taking it much more seriously and last season we saw some of them putting all of their aliens (and usually they have more than us atm) in the majority of their 9 car team and sweeping the floor with us. It's not a pleasant thing, as jr pointed - nobody likes to loose. If there was not the problem for the number of participants, we could've set some basic rules for team building. For example one-two -70 or lower gplrank drivers, two-three -40 to -70 and so on, something like that. But as it is atm we are barely able to form teams and I think that's what the majority of the leagues we race against suffer with.

I think most clubs are in a similar state, in that getting a team together is in itself a big thing.

As far as GPL Rank is concerned, frankly I think it's a Dead Duck, with 4 versions of the game how many folk update their Rank these days? Secondly, as we all agree its a bridge building fun thing, so leave the Team rules as they are, come one come all

Frankly, there is more talent around here than you can shake a stick at, and I return to my point that UKGPL need to make competing in an I/L race something special, not just something you cram in between the 5 or so Divisions you have running.

Now let's start thinking now about the next race, get the thread up and running, get folk to put their names down and don't ask for a car, it's Hristo's job to pick a team and allocate the chassis. Frankly, if we all can't have a decent bash at driving any cars by this stage, then it's time folk got a shake up :)

If we altered to one race a month, that would mean racing each league once a year rather than twice a year.  However, if any of the other leagues preferred once a year I would attempt to add more leagues, as the current format fits the UKGPL schedule.  Other leagues will always have fewer races, unless there was more racing between them, though...?

When we organised registration, the concept was that UKGPL would gain the advantage of having a settled team, so that drivers would have the same cars for every race, and that by having much the same drivers racing together in much the same chassis it would compensate for lack of practice.  We haven't been able to achieve that with the 66 cars, but that shouldn't stop us trying with the 67s.  Other teams might practice more, but also UKGPL race more...?

Drivers should then choose a car, that would be the chassis they would have for every circuit unless either they notified the captain that they couldn't drive, or (hopefully rarely) there was a change to the carset.  Also we could have backups for each chassis.  I've tried to avoid having any unusual circuits, so with only one chassis to consider extensive practice should be unnecessary.

The 66 mod has unusual features, I enjoyed Clive's description of how he tagged on to the Atlas tow cartel having left the pits, but should it be like that?  GPLRacer have asked if we would consider 65 mod races- though we had no experience with the altered 65 mod at the time, it is an option for next season.  With many shared 65 drivers with GPLRacer a two grid special race might be a possibility..?

The points system more or less has to be as it is, it's not really either the top or middle places but firstly finishing and secondly beating your 'teammate' from the other league in the same chassis.  As it should be...  More seriously, circuit selection is tricky, but I'm leaning more to the recommendation that we should avoid tracks with known crash zones, like Monza, Watkins and Mexico.  Though drivers complain about East London the accidents tend to go off the track, whereas with enclosed barrier sections pro racing becomes more difficult than it should be.  East London is more like a modern track....?  Int racing has poor engine management, and would need moderators and that is to be avoided.

However, I look on the points as more of a possible means of determining a 'winner' in an even race where both teams have had an equal share of luck, it just won't happen every race, it's good when it does.  It worries me when there are pileups, they're the major threat to these races being enjoyable, and more especially when drivers feel aggrieved and assign blame.  Pro races are poor with small grids, with bigger grids the drivers remaining should still get a decent race even with the loss of half the grid over the course of a long race.  Even the best drivers don't finish every race, but over the course of a season it shows.

Lastly, computer technical problems are frustrating and they do constantly recur, Napo hadn't claimed to be more than a possible starter with the 66 mod if we didn't have another driver- though perhaps he could have mentioned it then waited until more of the drivers had joined and chat was less busy, I wasn't under the impression that he was too intrusive.  I'm concerned that in all our divisions drivers sometimes post criticism too quickly after a disappointing race and then feel committed to what they've posted, merely because it's already on the board.  The sort of 'I must post this instantly because I'll have considered it more by tomorrow' factor...

I think this would be a great idea. It would give us middle of the road/not so fast guys a chance to participate

Hi guys :)

Regarding practice sessions, we have a server at hand, but with limited availability. Perhaps we can host some practice sessions before next race.

About the new 65mod, it is a blast. The drafting is less strong than the 66mod´s one, but it works ok at fast tracks, like Monza, Reims or Spa. It would be a wise choice for next events.

are you saying by that .. the atlas team cheated in any way . I know your not .. but others should not believe that to be true .

i believe a draft pact to be totally within the rules of team racing .

jonh

Good points there, Dave.

I'm all up for using 65 mod, IMO it has the upper hand on the 66 mod atm mainly because of the much more realistic slipstreaming model. I wish 66 (I dunno the situation with 69s) would have its slipstream toned down eventually, at least as a separate version perhaps. It's quite frustrating when you loose the slipstream of a pack of cars in 66 mod, they simply disappear into the distance.

As for assigning cars, I'd like people to state their prefered 2 (or more) chassis as it makes it easier for me. I'm not a super geek who drives all cars in all mods, my experience is mainly with the slower cars so sometimes I have to do some guessing and the more information I'm provided - the easier. But drivers shouldn't expect to always get their prefered cars and thus should be prepared to drive anything. I'm against assigning permanent cars for the whole length of the series, but if there is a majority that supports the idea, I'll go along. I think the situation differs in each race much more than normal because of the higher number of unknown factors involved - 2 leagues, lack of information on the opposition, differing car-track combos, even different team members as we can see...

Regarding technical problems ... or any other... as I said already, it happens to anyone, but by leaving it all for the last moment you're not entitled to make any claims, so instead take responsibility. I for one do regularly skip pre-race practice altogether and often have to install tracks (and sometimes even mods or tools), learn them, make setups, all in the last moment, but it's totally my own responsibility and my choice ultimately. As is missing a race, something which I've also done a lot and the only thing you can do in that case is to apologize or just keep quiet.

JR, I think team slipstream is an ok thing to do, honestly I don't think qualifying makes much of a difference at a track like Monza, so personally it doesn't worry me and the result was decided by the mass crashes on lap 1 rather than your team effort in qualifying. Kudos for doing what you did, you must've either practiced it a lot or it was just good luck. I have tried doing similar, with just 2 people, not 3, and it was very difficult to synchronize.  ::)

I certainly have no issue with the slipstreaming cartel in practice..a good move as far as I was concerned.

After all I gained some benefit from it, although you guys could have done a couple more laps and allowed me to get right up with you ::)

If UKGPL is to have a settled team, it does raise some issues IMHO

a) if the team line up is based on an optimum 9 drivers, we also need dedicated reserves who will always be on stand by and may rarely race.

b) would not such a set up prevent other drivers from getting a chance of driving in these races?

c) It would remove the surprise element from the competition, as when you see a new name you do not know what you are up against until you are on track together..which is half the fun.

The slipstreaming packs were part of Grand Prix racing of the sixties, I doubt that organised slipstreaming can be considered any worse than simply waiting to pull out of the pits at the appropriate time..  

My observation was intended to express surprise that Clive on cold tyres could get close enough to get an advantage from the three cars that went past him as he pulled out of the pits, I considered that to be an unusual feature to the 66 mod.  I doubt that you could catch three cars slipstreaming each other in a patched 65 mod car that had just pulled out of the pits, I'd like to see the results of an attempt.

The 65 mod had far too little tow and 5% higher top speed, and the mod team only corrected one of these aspects rather than both, however the slipstream applied to the 65 mod seems much more acceptable than that of the 66 mod.  Otherwise the 66 mod has more features and is clearly the better made mod, the 65 mod doesn't even have the right physics for the included variants of the main seven cars.  The slipstream difference between the mods just seems huge for the difference in top speeds.

I've never made any secret of my preference that drivers stay with a chassis all season, however with the Interleagues last season there were requests for different chassis and I hope that I was able to satisfy everyone.  If you'd prefer to organise the team separately on each race thread, the only problem is that I like to confirm the details with the other league before I post the thread, so I can't promise that it'll always be up straight after the race before.

Well there are a few differences between real life slipstream packs (let's say, in qualifying) and in GPL. They had 2 hours sessions in reality, they were, the majority at least, top drivers (or they won't be in F1) and they were rarely driving on the very limit for safety reasons (even the cars were setuped with safety in mind).

In GPL you not only have to avoid making mistakes if you're the following car so you don't loose the stream or if you're ahead so you don't ruin the lap of the driver behind, but you also have to complete the lap after taking tow without any mistakes or the time won't be as good as a clean lap, even one without a tow.

So it definitely has to be practiced and perfected, especially if not Pribluda is used. And also, I think drivers should be combined within similar paces so it all goes as smooth as possible.

Well, with that said, it's true you don't need to be much close to get a good tow in the 66 mod, so that's an exception somewhat.

Maybe the reason that I was able to catch the " Slipstream Club" was exactly as Hristo suggested..any small error by the cars involved effectively spoils the lap, plus the fact that my setup was very heavily biased towards slipstreaming in view of the Monza layout.
The Honda, on paper at least, is about the most powerful car in 66 ( not necessarily the fastest) so I was hoping to use the slipstream to  stay in contention and bide my time...but that didn't work did it!!??

I think the idea of sticking with the same chassis through the season may be historically more accurate for the purist, but is a total non starter in these interleague races unless ALL teams adopt the same ruling, and that  is unlikely.

Just seen the teams, wasn't Natan driving for Atlas and Stuart for UKGPL?

That's correct, Stuart replaced Napo.