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UKGPL Season 17 - Amateurs Trophy - Race 5 - 65 mod - Mexico City

The fifth round of the Amateurs Trophy finds us literally on top of the world at the Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez, the highest F1 race circuit in the world. Famed for its bumps, and at times its unruly crowd Mexico City is a love it or hate it track. Whichever it is for you, it was successful track for Jim Clark with a record 4 Pole Positions and 2 wins here.

Mexico has a very difficult opening sector with drivers having to go single file through the difficult T1 and chicane as it weaves its way through the polos. Accidents here have a nasty habit of coming back on track. Don't get caught out here as this time around we have upped the ante and the Amateurs will race at Pro level with no resets allowed.

Reserve drivers should not join until there are only 30 mins of qualifying left. However, all drivers should not go on track until there is 30 minutes of qualifying left as this helps all drivers join the server successfully.  Please restrict chat to pit messages.

Chassis allocations are below- the same chassis will be used for all races this season, unless there is an adjustment agreed by the moderator.  Good luck!

Please use the updated 65 mod for this race.

The 65 mod V2 update is being used by UKGPL and the updated layout features are very welcome, with the ability to record best lap times at addon tracks and to have 65 specific tracks. The new collision boxes are also a great improvement.  Though the new slipstream code will need extensive testing, the preliminary race seemed to show that it would be a definite improvement in racing terms, without the controversy over its extent, as with the 66 mod.

Thanks to all involved with producing the update.  If the new slipsteam code works as well as it seems it might, perhaps it could help persuade the authors of the 66 mod to rework their code as well!

Please be in IGOR UKGPL chatroom by 8:55 p.m.
(You will need to set up a channel called #ukgpl if you haven't already done so)
IGOR and Race passwords: see above (#post_event_password)

Server ukgpl6
IP address TBC
Race date = 28-04-2009
Time = 21:00
Track = Mexico
Variant = 65F1
Damage Model = PRO
Qually time = 30 minutes.
Race length = 50% Grand Prix (33 laps)


Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=208&theme=6)

CHASSIS ALLOCATION

FERRARI Phil Thornton, Will Tway (reserve), Burtoner*, Asbjeurn*
LOTUS  StormCloud, Dave Randall, Bartosz, Bernie*, Steve Bird*, Geoff65*
BRM  NatanVix, Samb, Ginsters, Steve Bucket*, Ian*
BT11  CliveLoynes, John Roberts, Ken, Jethro, Fulvio
HONDA  EvilClive, Tim, Iestyn (reserve)
COOPER Mike Beattie, Lorenzo, if he joins, otherwise any visiting speed merchant
BT7 Hristo

*drivers also assigned a Novices chassis

65 Mod

These were the 65 drivers
BT7 Bonnier, Baghetti, Hulme (Bonnier drove for Walker)
BT11 Brabham Gurney Gardner Anderson Siffert (Siffert drove for Walker, Gardner and Anderson were privateers)
Lotus Clark Spence Rodriguez Mitter Russo Solana (and Maggs Hailwood Attwood Amon and Ireland for Parnell)
Ferrari Surtees Bandini Rodriguez Vaccarella Bondurant Scarfiotti
Honda Ginther Bucknum
Cooper McLaren Rindt
BRM Hill Stewart

The 1965 season was the last to use the controversial 1500cc formula which had begun after 1960, to the initial advantage of Ferrari.  The 1965 cars are smaller than the 1967 cars and have less torque and hence more grip.  It was claimed that they 'cornered on rails', however this allowed the Grand Prix series to retain the use of circuits which were otherwise to prove extremely dangerous.

The 1965 cars are ideal for those new to GPL as they allow the tracks to be learnt in light reliable cars, however these are also full Formula One cars, and quite fast....  Jim Clark won the 1965 Belgian Grand Prix in a Lotus.  Graham Hill took pole in his BRM P261 with a time of 3'45.4 .  The 1965 distance was 32 laps.

David Wright's 'Legends' site http://fp.gplegends.plus.com/ has the download of the 2.0.1 version (under 'details') as well as being an exceptional guide to both 1965 and 1967, for those interested in Formula One history.  The 2.02 update is available here: http://www.jamesonline.net/ukgpl/1965mod_PATCH_v2.0.2_Setup.zip

Never liked Mexico, found it impossible to set the car up well and was always disproportionately slow here.  Had trouble setting up the Lotus 33, until I almost welded up the diff a couple of days ago (33/85 and 3 clutches), now it finally goes round that last turn without understeering into the barrier!

Might have some fun here after all.. :o

LOL

 ;D ;D ;D ;D I luvs Mexico, it's luverly and flat!!  ;D ;D ;D

don't drink the water .

john

Not breathing might be a good idea as well!

you swine !

john

The circuit is in a state of disrepair after the earthquake the other day. So bumps galore then! ;D

This is going to be a cracker!  :o As long as all go through turn one unscathed that is...  ::)

UKGPL6, IP address for tonight; 80.5.200.198

Guys, stop worrying.  Some Oinkment would soon sort it out.

That was crappier than Nurby Sunday night! Wound up 9th on the grid after being as high as 2nd behind one-shot Numpty, got not the best start off the grid, and proceeded to pick a braking point into T1 when everybody else took it easy. Shot up the inside of somebody when I found a gap, proceeded to take it easy into T2 when all MAYHEM ensued, and I got tagged by a rebounding Dave Randall into an upside-down barrel roll. Not happy, but what can ya do! On to Rouen I guess.

Damn, damn, damn.

Thanks very much to Geoff for the reminder, but I had not forgotten about the race.

I desperately pushed the car to its absolute limits as the road flowed before me and disappeared behind. Every other car was caught, assessed and then despatched into my rear view mirror. "More, faster" I thought to myself, but in the end it was not enough.

Unfortunately, that's not a description of driving the Lotus 33. It's actually a BMW 330d and that was my drive home from work to try to make the race.

By the time I signed onto iGOR the server was "mutating". Bugger. Fun drive home though.

This 65 championship is going from bad to worse from my perspective, but I guess you have to make your own luck and just be good enough to be on the front row, then you're usually clear of any 1st lap carnage!!  No chance, qualified 10th so was always going to be a potential sandwich filler and so it was.  Turn 2 and cars were seemingly activating under-floor rockets, so I looked for and found a gap to take full advantage of this chaos only for a white thing to dispose of it's invisibility cloak and subsequently activate my own cars rocket to blow the engine to bits.

All development work now focused on the Historics..

Well, at least I finished this race but in all honesty, I wasn't happy with the way a drove today. Qualified in the top 10 for the first time in the amatuers so was reasonable happy with that. When the flag dropped for the race everyone got away cleanly, until corner 2 when all carnage ensued. I'm not sure what happened thanks to my internet settings but I did receive a scare when Clive's Honda appeared out of nowhere infront of me! Guess I need to sort out my bandwidth settings. After passing the drama of the 1st lap, I was up into 5th.

It remained that way for a few laps till the back end of the car decided to play games with me at the first corner. I made a poor rejoin right in front of Ken so I must apologise for that. I couldn't hear or see any cars so I just spun the car round only to find you right up my gearbox! Soon after that episode, I then had an argument with the concrete barrier just after the hairpin and speared straight into the wall over the grass. Got passed by a couple more cars and was down to 8th.

From then on I was driving my own race, trying to catch Steve, only for me to have another argument with the concrete barrier! Was amazed the car was still working okay after all the bumps and scrapes with the tyres this race. Eventually half way through I clipped a polo mint too many and bent the car's steering. It didn't want to turn right after that so I trundled home about 5 seconds off the pace I was managing earlier. So ended up 7th a lap down but I was glad to finish a second time this season. Maybe I can bag a decent result at Watkins next time round.

You can still join it when it's mutating, it only means the practice session is ending but in a stand-by mode waiting for all to finish their laps.

As of my race, that was quite difficult. Clive was in a great form obviously and it really took me a lot of effort to better his time in qualifying. I had no illusions for the race though, considering the underpowered BT7 and the long run towards T1.

As it happens rarely though I had a very good start and was able to keep 1st as we were approaching T1, with Clive on the left and someone else's car in my slipstream but lifting up for safety reasons, which I'm thankful for.

T1 and T2 themselves were quite hectic as you never know how close exactly the other cars are and there's no time to take a good look in the mirrors, so sound was the only thing I could rely on. Took a bit of a risk cutting into the chicane of T2 and taking the whole road but good enough Clive was behind by then and so all went safe.

I was thinking it would be possible to break away from him while the tyres are cold as that's usually when he messes up, but despite my best efforts he held on to my tail and although I had a good run through the esses he closed up the gap with the run from there on towards T1 next lap.

Not enough to make a pass, but enough to keep me worried and after a few laps that scenario repeated itself. Clive was faster through the first sector of the track and I don't mean just the straights but most of the turns as well. That came as a surprise and I realized he has improved a lot!  :o

But I knew as long as I get a good exit from the esses I should be relatively safe and that was the main target, but on one occasion it didn't work that well and he nearly had a pass attempt as we went into T1 on the following lap.

The race felt very long and the finish was no any near in sight, so I had doubts I can keep up with that pressure for long, but then Clive made some sort of a mistake and dropped back enough to lose the effect of slipstream I was providing him with.

From there on I had only one option - push as hard as possible without looking back so he would never catch up again. It worked for a couple of laps and the gap grew up to 13 seconds or so, but then I clipped the concrete edge on the outside of the corner following the hairpin and that instantly sent me into the wall on the opposite side of the track. With sheer luck my front end took most of the initial impact so there was virtually no damage to the suspension.

All that allowed Clive to get the gap back down to 6 seconds and from then on I couldn't quite pull away as quick as before, partially due to all my tyres getting overly hot. The fact that my fastest lap was done so early in the race is a proof to that.

Anyway, there were no other surprises until the end and backmarkers were sometimes TOO polite, throwing themselves off the track much in advance... no need to be that radical guys.  ::)

I'm happy for the result and I hope SHE is happy too, but I want to congratulate Clive on a great performance and such massive improvement (at least from my point of view). Grats to all other finishers and to Tim for collecting some more points for HikiWaza!

Cheers,
-=Hristo=-

Qually went without a hitch, but at one stage....I was sitting in 9th position, only .8 of a scond off pole. The top 10 were quite close until Clive and then Hristo threw in 51's to bust it wide open....:)

Lined up on the grid and cars were flashing on and off and the latency meter went full red. Settled down as the flag dropped.....then started going intermittently nuts. I cautiously completed 2-3 laps to see if it was gonna improve. It didn't, so I pulled in and retired...as by that stage I couldn't see any other cars, and figured they couldn't see me either.
Found out the missus (pissed) was streaming music on our slowed down broadband connection (she'd already used up our bandwidth allotment 7 days earlier than usual) Apologies if I caused any dramas to other runners......NOT a happy camper. I'd divorce her if I'd married her in the first place.... ::)
Never a bloody white slave trader around when you need one!!
Grats to the podium and all finishers.
Geoff.

PS :I was going to pull her line from the router too, just in case....but figured she'd have enough sense not to go online. You'd think I'd have learned by now, wouldn't you?..... >:(

Made it through witjout taking out half the team or Hristo.....Phew what a relief :)

Happy with qualifying, 6th spot in the little Cooper without a tow, and a new PB.

Good start off the line, got in behind Evil on the inside, and most folk seemed to brake early for T1, however JR ended up on the barrier and was recovering back to speed when he & Evil now had what  is becoming their traditional bash as both went for the apex from different angles.

Et Voila now I'm 4th behind Fulvio, and so started a race long dice, I got ahead and started to close on Vlive, until a spin dropped me back behind FP. We exchanged the 3rd spot a few times more before I finally broke clear and he fell into the hands of Ken.

Grats to the firdt two and to everyone else who finished :)

My dislike for Mexico made itself obvious again with my lowly qualifying spot, it may have been better had I found a tow but was still pretty poor anyway.

The start of the race went well, everyone at the back got a similar start. I managed a slightly better one and gained some room rearwards on the approach to T1 - I considered this important as intended to take it very easy first time around.
Got to T1 and got half way through thinking 'wow! no pile up!' when stationary/slow moving cars then decided to apear out of thin air on the exit of the Esses.
Had already started accelerating by this point so what braking I could do was near useless. The car directly in front hit something - Evil then choose this point to appear in front of him in mid air, along with several near stationary cars scattered about the track - I then screached into the back of the guy infront of me. Turns out that was Dave Randals car - Sorry about that, nothing I could do though as I didn't know Clive was there either  :(

After getting clear of the carnage I found myself in 6th with a miraculously damage free car, so set of to reel in anyone I could catch.
Sam disposed of himself as I watched, briefly giving me 5th. Then Ken stormed past and rapidly dropped me on his own charge back up the order dropping me back to 6th again.

Stayed there until Fulvio dropped out/retired in the closing stages of the race gifting me with 5th.

Overall I'm happy with my consistency (Approx half my race laps were 1:54's and the odd very low 1:55) but not so happy with my setup. The car handled more like a D1 drift car than an F1 car which was clearly costing me bigtime, also the near molten tyres from the midpoint on where only making things harder.....

Congrats to H for scoring a win for HER, also to Clive for a well fought race and all other finishers for finishing  ;D

Many thanks to Hristo for his kind words.  I think that Mike deserves a slap on the back as well for the way he was pedalling that Cooper.

I did my qually lap on my second timed lap.  It is my PB so I didn't waste too much time after that trying to go any quicker.  Instead I concentrated on full fuel runs and tyre pressures.  Oh, and making sure that I didn't give Jethro a tow.

I think that I must have got it about right as my fastest lap came late in the race when Hristo dropped back to tease me.

It was unfortunate that my rear left wheel disposed of John in T1 but we were three abreast and I was trying to plot a central course between Hristo and him.

I stuck like glue to H's gearbox for the first eight laps but, as he has said, I had a lap with a couple of minor errors and he was gone.  Hristo put in some fearsome laps at mid-race and I must say it was a source of great disappointment to me that I didn't see his BT7 as a smoking ruin in the last few laps.  Not that he wasn't trying for me as in addition to his mid-race crisis he also belted the wall on lap one as he exited the hairpin.  Well he did on my replay anyway.  These 65 beasts are well built.


(http://www.planet-venom.co.uk/gpl/Da_Mex.gif)

It was good to go out on a high.

This was my last UKGPL race.  I find that my views on how warp incidents should be viewed are at odds with the administration of UKGPL and it makes no sense to continue to expend the time and effort if the races are not being adjudicated, in my view, correctly. I actually prefer to race with GBGPL where there is little or no pretense of moderation.  At least what you see is what you get.  I can attempt to educate an individual but as they say, you can't fight city hall.

I hope to be racing with GPL Racer next Tuesday.

Many thanks to everyone at UKGPL.  It looks as though I will not make 200 races after all but you can't have it all.  It has been great fun racing with you all and perhaps I will see some of you at the BREASTS races on Wednesday evenings.


I am hoping that Steve or Mike will take over running the SBRC team in UKGPL and who knows, perhaps I will start a GPL Racer Wing.


Good luck

very unfortunate , because it was shaping up to be classic race...

I'd got a good run on you up to turn one and fancied my chances around the outside . 

however that tap put me into the Armco for a second before i was on my way again , but not for long . Evil Clive was beside me on the exit of turn one / entry turn two and  I guess he thought that i was either crumpled in the wall or more slowly recovering and turned in as normal , as a result he had a little spin on the exit of two .
After that all hell broke lose with cars flying everywhere .


Have the rules on warp incident changed ?

it's a pity that makes racing ukgpl no longer a option for you Clive .

john

Eh, Clive, why are you quitting all of a sudden?  :(
I hope you reconsider in the near future... Since my days of racing for the Soggies I've always associated UKGPL with a handful of people and you are one of them.

And yeah, I hit the wall on lap 1, but was lucky to avoid damage.

????!!!! I really hope you reconsider Clive, you would leave a gaping big hole in UKGPL,  :(
(almost as big as the one my con rod came through in Mexico!)

BTW what is the general opinion on how warp incidents should be viewed?

I do find the unforgiving collision detection to be the only down side with GPL.  It would be great if you could get away with the odd unintentional wheel banging.  As regards moderating, my own view would be that where possible we should give a metre instead of rubbing wheels.  But unless someone is deliberately aggressive or very careless and causes a collision I don't see why they should be punished by an obvious warp incident.

Is this how the moderating currently works?  What does everyone else think, presumably this has this been discussed before?

I had a pretty quiet race, after getting through the T1 / 2 incident unscathed, just, I seemed to end up on my own between 6 - 20 seconds in front or behind the drivers either side of me.

I tried to push a little to catch Tim a couple of times but never got anywhere.

Sorry to hear Clive is heading away.  I'm not sure it's a good time for me to take anything over as it's likely I'll be away from the UK for 4 months from June or October, when they make their mind up.

However, if team members are happy to put up with my minimal input for now, I would be happy to continue the long standing 'Soggie' name in UKGPL in the absence of anyone else wanting to do it.  Of course if Clive were to (hopefully) change his mind then he would assume the helm once again, without question.

Anyway, all that can be sorted out another time.

Good racing guys.  I'm still working on being a bit more competitive.

Clive, I'm as surprised as everyone else by your decision to quit UKGPL for GBGPL over the moderation of UKGPL races?  Phil has had difficulty with his connection recently, but neither of you have said anything about this to me?

With the Amateurs, though Mike is very new at moderation, as you would expect we haven't left him on his own.  I've looked at every reported incident, and I agree with every decision that's been made.  I have been surprised that there have been so few incidents reported, but that's up to the drivers- we had made it clear that only reported incidents would be considered this season.

The rules on lag incidents haven't altered since you were a moderator, so perhaps you are questioning the application of them?  With previous incidents you've been able to produce screenshot sequences to demonstrate your points, that have proved very useful- if it's annoyed you so much that you're prepared to quit, I would have hoped that you'd be able to show us why?  How about a thread on the subject, if there are separate incidents to deal with?

I was reasonably happy early in the qually when I was lying second to Clive but as the time ticked away I was gradually pushed down the standings and ended up about 6th or 7th. I blamed it on not getting a tow, but I see Clive claims his lap was tow free anyway!!

As has been commented everybody took it really steady through T1 but at the bottleneck there must have been some contact because suddenly cars were flying everywhere. I virtually came to a standstill but I seemed to be attacked from all sides and my car took a hell of a bashing, but unbelievably at the end of it all it drove away without any signs of damage!!

The leaders were well gone by now though. I despatched a couple of cars quite quickly and after Sams mistake I was running 5th. It was a hard slog after that in what seemed like a very long race but gradually I was catching the two cars ahead. Late in the race I caught Fulvio and started to apply some pressure. This was my first run in this 65 update so I wasn't really sure how strong the slipstream was. I soon found it wasn't anywhere near as strong as the 66's and it wasn't going to be as easy as I thought to make a pass. I was being careful through the twisty bits and kept trying to get a good tow on to the final straight. When Fulvio got it a bit ragged through the esses on one lap I closed in but unfortunately we fell foul of Clives pet subject. I just got a bit too close and warp did the rest. I'm truly sorry and will let the moderators be the judges.

I initially slowed hoping Fulvio might have recovered but it was terminal for him. After that I just had a really steady run home. It was a shame the T1 incident had spread the field so much because the first 5 or 6 were running pretty much the same pace.

I was really sorry to hear Clives bombshell, he will be a massive miss if he doesn't reconsider his decision.
  

I think John had it right about the T2 melee. Sorry guys   :-[


I saw a car ( that I now know was John) bouncing off the armco at T1 and kept a very cautious pace around the inside  checking my mirrors  as I went .
I could see a car ( Mike I think ) following me and thought it was clear to take the racing line through T2 and away..but then the world just flipped!!

It seems that John's conatact with the armco was exaggerated by my end of the connection and what I thought had been a terminal or certainly a very retarding contact was not, and he had kept his foot down around the outside lane. I just never saw him in my mirrors and did not think anyone could be alongside me when I turned in to T2 or I would have stayed wide and given room.

I was looking forward to some close racing, judging by the qually times and was really miffed to say the least that it ended so soon.

Sorry guys.

May I add my voice to those calling for Clive to reconsider his withdrawl from UKGPL. Your experience and advice will be sorely missed.

It was Clive who was instrumental in my joining the online racing community and provided endless support and advice to get me up and running when I was being ( and still am) a complete computer disaster.

Its a sad day for UKGPL when Clive decided to throw the towel in . Still hoping you will reconsider mate , we will all miss your input and worldclass banter .

I'm a bit lost, where can I find the server replay?
Ciao

http://www.jamesonline.net/ukgpl/2009.04.28_Mexico_Amateurs/

john

You may now submit your reports.

Come on then, what happened in T1?

[/runs and hides]

Due to the extreme trauma of T1 and the severe impact sustained, I am sufferering from temporary amnesia ::)  ......its all a blank from the start line until I woke up on the grass bank your honour ;)

 :(
Clive Loynes decided to hit the ukgpl road ?????????????????????????????
come on Clive plz think twice , plz stay !!!!!!!!!!!!!1

 Nicky Ickx