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UKGPL Season 17 - Novices Trophy - Race 8 - 65 mod - Mosport

The eighth race in the Novices Trophy is at Mosport Park in Ontario, the second purpose-built race track in Canada.  The track held its first major race in 1961, when Stirling Moss, who won, suggested changes to the proposed hairpin, which then became the two corners called Moss in his honour.  Mosport held its first Grand Prix in 1967, Canada's centennial year.

Clutch, Mike and Nicky are the serious contenders for the trophy- the chasing pack have much to do to make up enough ground.  However Mosport is a tricky circuit and there might be an opportunity for an outsider to score a win here.  Drivers should be careful on the downhill sweeps, especially approaching Moss, as there the armco doesn't allow any run-off for cars that have strayed to the outside.  

Reserve drivers should not join until there are only 30 mins of qualifying left.  However, all drivers should not go on track until there is 30 minutes of qualifying left.  This helps all drivers join the server successfully.  Please restrict chat to pit messages.

Please use the updated 65 mod for this race.

The 65 mod V2 update is being used by UKGPL and the updated layout features are very welcome, with the ability to record best lap times at addon tracks and to have 65 specific tracks. The new collision boxes are also a great improvement.  Though the new slipstream code will need extensive testing, the preliminary race seemed to show that it would be a definite improvement in racing terms, without the controversy over its extent, as with the 66 mod.

Thanks to all involved with producing the update.  If the new slipsteam code works as well as it seems it might, perhaps it could help persuade the authors of the 66 mod to rework their code as well!

Please be in IGOR UKGPL chatroom by 8:55 p.m. UK 19:55 GMT
(You will need to set up a channel called #ukgpl if you haven't already done so)
IGOR and race passwords: see above (#post_event_password)

Server ukgpl5
IP address  TBC

Race date = 9-06-2009
Time = 21:00 (UK time) 20:00 (GMT)
Track = Mosport Park
Variant = 65F1
Damage Model = INT
Qually time = 30 minutes.
Race length = long (27 laps)

Make sure that you have enough race fuel to complete the distance!

(2) Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=193&theme=6)

Penalties are to be worried about after the race, with the exception of penalties for restarts.  The UKGPL rule is that you have to take a stop-and-go in the pits for each reset at the end of the lap, with the only exception being if your reset was caused by another driver.  The penalty for not taking a stop-and-go is thirty seconds.   

CHASSIS ALLOCATION  If I haven't included you but your chassis has been agreed it's not important, otherwise pm me.

Ferrari Norbert Roguk Fabio
Lotus Al Vos Mike Scott Vee8
BRM Billy Hezemans Hurtubise JamesRye
BT11 Graham Maestro Clutch Nhance
Honda Bookie Tomd18
Cooper Asbjeurn* Ian* Steve B* Steve B2* Geoff* Bernie* Nicky*
BT7 Aulden Burt* Glyn

*drivers also assigned an Amateurs chassis

65 Mod

These were the 65 drivers
BT7 Bonnier, Baghetti, Hulme (Bonnier drove for Walker)
BT11 Brabham Gurney Gardner Anderson Siffert (Siffert drove for Walker, Gardner and Anderson were privateers)
Lotus Clark Spence Rodriguez Mitter Russo Solana (and Maggs Hailwood Attwood Amon and Ireland for Parnell)
Ferrari Surtees Bandini Rodriguez Vaccarella Bondurant Scarfiotti
Honda Ginther Bucknum
Cooper McLaren Rindt
BRM Hill Stewart

The 1965 season was the last to use the controversial 1500cc formula which had begun after 1960, to the initial advantage of Ferrari.  The 1965 cars are smaller than the 1967 cars and have less torque and hence more grip.  It was claimed that they 'cornered on rails', however this allowed the Grand Prix series to retain the use of circuits which were otherwise to prove extremely dangerous.

The 1965 cars are ideal for those new to GPL as they allow the tracks to be learnt in light reliable cars, however these are also full Formula One cars, and quite fast....  There was no Canadian Grand Prix in 1965.

David Wright's 'Legends' site http://fp.gplegends.plus.com/ (http://fp.gplegends.plus.com/) has the download of the 2.0.1 version (under 'details') as well as being an exceptional guide to both 1965 and 1967, for those interested in Formula One history.  The 2.02 update is available here: http://www.jamesonline.net/ukgpl/1965mod_PATCH_v2.0.2_Setup.zip (http://www.jamesonline.net/ukgpl/1965mod_PATCH_v2.0.2_Setup.zip)

Nice bit of history there, Dave, didn't know that. So we have mr. Moss to blame for the treachery of the Moss corners, lol. Might as well call it Mossport.  ;D

Mossy lap


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8sIE4SYpm0&NR=1

 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8sIE4SYpm0&NR=1)

If I remember correctly, this is the only track from the -67 season that's still got the same layout as back then. Isn't that right?

Check the Amateurs race thread for confirmation. ;)

tough luck for me. :'(

Pole was excellent considering I had used qualy to hone my setup as I hadn't the time to practice beforehand. ;D

Got a good start, was going a bit easy on the first lap.

Made a mistake through into the tight hairpin...nothing major. Someone thought they'd be an optomist and I was spun around. Then the game crashed as the pack came charging down on me.

Shame as another fightback through the field would have been fun.

see y'all at the next one.

Ryeman

I was suprised to see it was basically the same track apart from the newer buildings and that barrier type concrete wall the pappy track seems to be a fair representation,  except maybe the hairpin is a bit too tight in game and I dont ever recall GP cars or even Can Am's having air under the wheels at that "hump" bit .

Its a track you hate at first but then learn to love after a thousand laps or so , I am still learning the best lines aftre 10 years or so of GPL .

 

 :( :(
that was me.sry . from my point of view your car was lost wide in the second ( guess Mos ) turn of that hairpine& extreme under racespeed ... the moment I saw your car chrashing there was plenty of space to my car .
( did wait after that till I was on P8 , didnt see ya coming back . so I kept on racing ..)
as that kinda chrash did happend by/to me at least 3 times nearly in a row . I appologize to all involved.

Unsure what was up , I lost my car 3 to 4 times badly with no other car around and withoutt any reason ; as well most of the cars where warping to me , hardest stuff was NHance , all the way right and left and back  no way to overtake.....
Even pribluda telling nonsence to me .. one time I had get back to track it tolds me next car behind is 2,7sec away; so drove back on track .smashed a car then . :-[ :-[ hell sry..

However , I am extremly disapointed more due to the fact  that I destroyed  the race of quit a big number of drivers , then to the fact I missmanaged my win/win situation here at Mosport for the championship completely :-\ :-\

Again sorry .

but  plz try to learn that the arriving area to to the hairpine is not a braking zone!!! uphill entry will slow the car ; then accelerate part of seconds to help the car coming outa springs , little tale braking and Mos will be yours while gently sliding to start into the long straight. I noticed lots of drivers  did wrong there and then there isnt a way to stay clean...

anyroads  ,  ;) wont be a surprise to me , if I will got the penalty record this time.

 :( :( now I will try to find an technique to forget this race ..

disgraceful NickyIckx

For me, this is the hardest track we have visited in the Novices so far this season.

I had a set up for Mosport that i thought might ideally deliver a 1:26:80+ with a few laps of fuel in. My biggest challenge was trying to keep the car stiff and pretty low, but not allowing the car to bottom out at the dip and spin off. Anyway, just before i went online i thought i'd do a couple of laps with the full 27laps in.. everytime i got to the dip, sparks flew and the car slid off the track. To my horror, i now realised my set up was useless on race fuel.

To qualifying, stuck it on provisional pole with a 1:26+, then spent the rest of the session trying different setups and racing lines into the dip to avoid the sparks and bottoming out. I eventually found a way round this, but knew it would cost me lap time and would alter my approach to the dip until the car got a lot lighter. There was a few people getting close to my time (which was a PB), and eventually James Rye banged it on pole with an unbeatable time for me.

The Race. I knew me and James Rye had to be careful after Rouen so was glad to take Turn 1 in second, keeping my grid slot. Championship contender NickyIckx was right behind me in 3rd.
I was quite happy to take it steady on Lap 1 and went Ryeman ran wide at the dip i could have had a go, but thought i'd play follow the leader and keep it steady on Lap 1 to avoid any trouble. Nicky Ickx saw his opportunity and went for it, easily passing me with Al Heller also making a clean pass before the tight Moss Hairpin. Then.. I think Nicky and James and a coming together at Moss, Al Heller went wide and i tried to tip toe to the right of Ryeman, but as his car flicked round it caught mine and i was also spun round into my Team Mate NHance who was trying to get through on the inside (apologies).

After that is was carnage with all cars flying in. I managed to find my way onto the grass and round the pile up, and then on the straight passed Heller & Ickx who had slowed, i only knew it was them after i had shot past, and wasn't sure if i should wait too, but by then it seemed like everyone was streaming forward so i just kept on it figuring i had arrived at the accident like everyone else and made my best attempt to get round it.

That put me in 3rd, and after Roguk spun, 2nd. I kept Vosblod within a few seconds but knew there was nothing i could do. He was faster on the front part of the circuit, and i was slightly quicker at the back. I was also compromised by having to brake in the dip until the car got lighter due to my poor set up as explained above. As far as i was concerned, it was stalemate and i knew i'd have to try and keep the times close and force a mistake.

With 10 laps to go, i (accidently) found myself passing Vosblod round the outside of the right hander after the back straight. I thought i'd try braking a little later on the outside of the corner and suddenly found myself alongside in no mans land so knew i had to stay on it and make the pass. I didn't actually want to pass him at that stage as i could see back markers ahead and thought it would be tricky passing them. As it happened, the back markers did a great job.

Tough race that, incident packed, loads of yellow flags and tricky to keep the car on the limit over all the blind corners.

Despite my win, the championship is still wide open with 2 races to go where anything can happen.

Nicky - Can see your point with hairpin technique at Mosport and i agree, but i think peoples individual setups may not allow them to take the corner as you suggest, as i found on heavy fuel. You never know where people will brake until you follow them for a couple of laps and get used to their individual line. Then you can assess where to make a pass. I can understand your frustration at this track though as it is very difficult to pass. I'm sure you'll be back at the next race faster than ever.  ;)

Firstly, I'm afraid I'm not very happy with Clutch tonight and will be reporting him to the race moderator. I have a bottle of champagne in my fridge waiting to be opened when I get a win. His superior driving means it is still there - that's clearly an Appallingly Blatant Bad Denial of alcohol  ;)

What a race for me - second place - WHOOPEE  ;D  ;D  ;D

Quallied 5th which I was well chuffed with. On lap 1 there was a bit of 'ows your father' in front which let me through to first. Never been in that position so my heart was doing overtime. Was pretty resigned to a short stint in front.
Sure enough Rog was soon in my mirrors but I kept it in check until a silly spin in lap 5 gifted him the lead. It wasn't long before Rog returned the compliment putting me back in the top spot.
For quite a few laps after that it was a case of hang in there - finishing first looked a long way off.
Slowly but surely Clutch began to reel me in - I felt like a little minnow on the end of his line. Eventually he menaced my mirrors and I decided maybe I was a big fish after all. Alas, it was not to be, he made a perfect pass and was through on lap 17.
After that I was pleased to keep him in my sights (albeit with binoculars) and then started to dread the thought of lapping - not something I am very experienced at. Anyway either Clutch or myself must have had bad B.O. as cars seemed to fall away to the side as we approached them.
Towards the end I started to get 'what ifs' and eased up a bit on the car - no way I was going to throw away my one and only second (and podium) through silliness.
At last the flag came... YES  ;D

Anyway my best race yet and well done to all podium and finshers. Seems the hillies got a 2/3/4 so we'll all be getting large palfreys from the ceremonial gundy  :euro:
See you at the next one.

Both the Honda and I were slow tonight.  Being at the back of the field meant there would be some good racing as times were close.  And indeed, there was!  Graham and Locarno and I were very close most of the race.  Our laptimes must have been comparable.  At Mosport there aren't too many discos.  So we kept at it.  They were faster than me, but it seemed some minor off would save me just when I thought I'd be passed.  As the race was wearing down, a very dark cloud came on the horizon (real life) and thunder started to rumble.  I spent some time wondering if it would hold off until the end of the race.  My Honda (real life) was parked in the driveway with all windows down.  Unable to hold two thoughts at one time, I began to make mistakes and in the end I decided to retire and put those darned windows up.  Guys, I hope you had as much fun as I did.

Bookie

 ;D
Think at minimum I should get zero points for Mosport.

<I hit into Nhance two times at T4 to T5 . my fault. ( L11 and L22)
<I hit into A.Heller at L6 between 5A and Mos while trying to make a 180° backslide
<I cutted Locarno at T3 L16 by coming back to track


As to Mos accidents I create :
even so it might be mainly lag tap related ,(reading amateurs post by turkey machine did confirm this theory ) , it was both time me make other cars spin around.

Hope everybody involved will accept my apologizes.

edit: of course you are right Clutch . no question its my prob only , if a driver in front use its own brake points... :)

see ya all at silver

Arrived late in Canada with a last minute borrowed set up From Soggy team mate Steve which didnt really work for me but I used his gear set with my own concocted set up which was pretty good for the race.

Not sure what happened on L1 at the hairpin ,I was following the car in front when he stopped , not sure if I tapped his rear or whatever and I forgot to save my replay so unable to check , there was considerable lag and a lot of warping with the cars all grouped closely together , I finished on the grass as a result and had to let the whole field through before continuing , a few laps later I was slowly hauling Aspjern in who was engaged in a 4 way duel for umpteenth place . The dice broke up at the hairpin with 2 cars spining out just as I was tagging on to the fun so for the next few laps I was chasing Aspjern alone for 6th place  when he suddenly decided to take a shortcut and let me through , (you should know by now how slippy that grass is , not recommended to use it when racing best saved for the picnic hamper after the race is out of the way )
This saw me in 6th place now chasing the fezzer of Stemmler whom I had some enjoyable lappery with , we were taking turns at sliding off at various places and passing/ re passing each other as mistakes were made in an effort to find the extra speed needed to get the edge on each other,  all the time wishing the bloody Coop had a few more horses under the bonnet as well as the Donkey driving .

I was pleased to finish an unexpected 5th though way behind the  leaders  who had long ago driven off into the distance.

All in all an enjoyable race even though I am getting really fed up with this unequal struggle having to use the ever so slow Coop .

Mods please note , for S18 how about some sort of chassis handicap to even things up a bit  ::)
 
Grats to the Podium boys and all who finished racing in at least one piece

   

Having had a couple of weeks of practise at Mosport, I was never quicker than 1:27.7 and I knew that just about everybody else would be quicker than that. I got a 1:27.8 in qually so I settled for that wherever it would put me and ran with race fuel.

Given my lack of pace I expected to get nothing from this race other than try to keep it on track and hope people fell off.

People did fall off (a lot) but sadly so did I. I had damage to my car which made it very unstable under braking but I think it was caused by an incident I had by myself so I didn't reset as I knew I lacked the pace to catch people again. Unfortunately that seemed to be the wrong choice because it threw me off track several times, at one point heading into turn 8 it threw me off the road to the left, another time I was hoping to follow Billy NoBrakes through T3 but ended up in a full slide going through on the inside of him. Luckily for me he seemed to have seen it coming and left room. It also bottomed out in the dip which it has never done before with that setup or fuel level.

The highest I ran was 5th for a short spell and I had a great chase in the closing stages where it took me a few laps to catch Asbejurn while trying to keep it on the road, but when I got the pass done going up to T8 I threw it off the road again and he did well not to get collected by me.

I finished a lowly 9th and expect a few to get penalties but not enough to give me any great points tally.

Has this race cost me the championship? No because we drop 2 race results anyway, it just means I can't afford any mistakes at Silverstone or Monza which I am looking forward to. Whatever happens I have enjoyed a season long battle with Clutch who must be odds on favourite, with Nicky who must be dreading the last two rounds at power circuits and Jimmy who has been let down early on by connection issues.

The team championship is looking exciting too and hopefully next season we will see more teams entering, single marque or otherwise. There is a rumour that the Clark-Hill team will branch into a Clark Lotus and Hill BRM team. Stay tuned for details.

A Lotus awaits you Bernie.

It's in the paddock next to the other Amateurs' cars. ;)

Sorry I missed this race, it's TT time here on the Isle of Man and I didn't get back in until after 9pm and forgot all about the race :(

Big well done to Tim, you've been doing really well lately, only a matter of time before P1 is yours.

Hope to be at Silverstone, but it's not a good track for me, and I've got a feeling I'm away for Monza, which is a real shame, because I like Monza.

First of all congratulations to Clutch on an excellent win. And secondly congratulations to teammate Tim (Vosblod) for a superb second place :) And a slightly mumbled grats to Rog for swiping 3rd place off me at the end too (sniff).

My race felt a bit like a Pink Panther film with Nicky in the role of Cato jumping out of wardrobes & attacking me when I least expected it ;) Was really pleased with 3rd in Q but once again totally messed up the start & was fortunate to only lose one place. My view of the 1st lap carnage was that James (leading) hit the kerb at 5a which sent him wide & left a tempting gap into Moss - Nicky pulled alongside but a recovering James turned in & they collided right in front of me. Tried to take to the grass to avoid them but didn't quite make it & got caught up in the tangle.

Eventually got going again, was amazed not to be damaged but next lap at Moss got nerfed off when Nicky's nose had a sniff at my rear tyre.. lost a few more places there but after a couple of laps was a few hundred yards behind Nicky & trying to catch up. Came over the crest at 5a & saw Nicky on the grass facing me but just as I was about to pass he did a doughnut to get back on track & collected me in the process! By this time I was considering pitching a tent & setting up camp on the grass at Moss as I seemed to be spending enough time there.

After that thankfully not too many dramas. Inherited 3rd when Rog went gardening at Moss (where else?) but could make no impact on Clutch & Vosblod so just tried to maintain a steady pace & not make any mistakes. Sadly 5 laps from the end team orders were issued & I was instructed to give the last podium place to Clark-Hill teammate Rog. Since team orders are banned I cunningly disguised the handover by spinning off at T3 in what might appear to be a simple bit of crap driving :P

That third step of the podium must be teflon-coated as I certainly can't keep hold of it. Still - was pleased to finish 4th as this was a tricky track  :)

  

Pancakes & maple syrup for tea made my stomach & tyres super sticky for qualifying. I was happy with my time & 6th place as I'll never do a PB with race night pressure.
Heller baulked Vosblod off the line so I slipped through to a handy 5th at T1. Hairpin - 'nuff said. At the left hander before finish I got hit again & when I rejoined got hit by Graham to whom an apology is almost certainly in order. Over to you moderator. That was lap 1 & I was 13th.

Eventually I think I was 8th & had Nicky, Asbejeurn & Mike behind me & my prebluda did not show where team mate Clutch was but I guessed he was near the front. My objective was to catch 7th place & stay in front of these who are Clutch's championship rivals. So it was hit the apex time again as with Roguk at Rouen.
Well with that lot in close attendance it was not a matter of "if" but "when" & the accident happened on lap 11. Asbejeurn got the worst of it but he could take the chill out of the air by warming himself on his smoking wreckage. Towards the end I caught Norbert but yellows at the hairpin stopped any attempt & on the last lap he went wide in the dip & I lost concentration watching him & went off as well. Finished 7th but may get a penalty for lap 1 Graham incident, we'll have to see.
Really enjoyed this race the 27 laps just flew by on a difficult track but I like it. Well done to Clark Hill's Vosblod Roguk & Heller, but Clutch - b***dy fantastic 'cos I know you had set up trouble even before race night. As good a result as we could both hope for.

Norm H

 






 
 

Looks as though Reed will have some stiff competition for the honour of being the most successful BRM chassis team. You could always join Loot and his men instead  ;).

Has anyone seen a talented driver, a double champion indeed, moping about looking for a faster chassis next season...?  Anyway, you can reassure him that next season's allocations will be structured so that the racing is more competitive, it's one of the virtues of chassis allocation that it gets better season by season, though obviously this doesn't apply to entirely new drivers.

Colin Chapman trying to swipe Reed's engines and talent, why am I not very surprised by this.... though what UKGPL does need is a Cooper team to replace the sadly defunct 'men of Cooper', aka the X-Men.  I've gathered that one of the current Cooper aces has only a one-year contract, though...

Your incident reports for Mosport please gentlemen.

I wasn't lucky this one even if I had a lot of fun!

On lap 1, before Moss, I was hit in the back by Bernie so I was getting nervous and I made several mistakes all along the race.

Immediately on the same lap, on T9, I hit NHance as well, sorry!

I made a stop'n'go, then I sarted some fun laps, trying to climb up the race positions, but Mosport is one of the hardest track to pass someone.

On lap 17, NickyIckx, after going wide on T3, re-entered the track just in front of me and it wasn't possible for me to avoid him, so I lost any chance to finish the race in a better position.

That's racing life!

Grats to the podium, to everybody raced and to the staff.

Long Live GPL!

My debut season was fast turning into a dodgy entry to the Eurovison song contest - Nul points. Race 8 &, at last I have 2 points (at least till the Mods remove them).
The race started in true Novice style with a couple of major pile ups. Starting at 13th on the grid I weaved by way through the carnage to what I think Prib said was 5th. This was too much - had to take a lie down (aka a spin in the sand trap).
After Mike James had overtaken be for about the fourth time I settled in for what is becoming a traditional end of race tussle with Graham. On lap 25 I had to slow up to as a Honda was doing acrobatics across the track, Graham cut across my rear end (no fault inferred) and sent me spinning. I'm really just expalining this as mitgation for what happened next in the Moss hairpin. Had a nasty spin on the entry & ended up pointing in the wrong direction. I think a crafty shift R would have helped but I ended up driving across the track twice. Most cars seemed to get past OK but one car (a Cooper?) did get tagged trying to squeeze past. Apologies to driver concerned.
Had a similar incident at Rouen which the Mods were not to happy about. Might be back to Nul points.
I seem to be a bit less accident prone at Silverstone & Monza.

Have you tried switching to the chase view (using F10 button) when recovering from an incident?  Sometimes it is easier to spot a good place to turn round if you use the chase view, the grass verges are more visible.

Sorry if I caught you but you were warping like a good un , one moment following you then the next you suddenly come to a halt  ( see my report) hope I didnt spoil the race for you  :o

Looked at the replay again. Very sorry Graham I should have seen you coming you are visible on the replay as I am facing the wrong way before rejoining. Guilty as charged. Hope it didn't ruin your race too much.
Norm H

Thanks Norm but I had created all my own problems much earlier in the race.

Also my replay indicates that on lap 25 whilst passing Billy, his car jumped to one side
so it may be warp? Moderator will decide I guess.

It was a busy race, enjoyable but difficult.

NP Bernie, these are GPL races.

What are we supposed to do when a car suddenly appears in front of us and is stationary in a braking zone ?

This incedent was definately the result of warp contact as mentioned previously.
It seems to be a recuring problem , please note I am not the only one to be affected , dont see how you can use warp as an excuse for one yet completely ignore the effect for another  :-\

Mods please note

There is definatly an issue here which needs resolving 

:-\

Bugger me sideways and call me Charlie Whiting.

28 place penalties?!?!?!?!?!  :o :o :o :o :o :o

Is that a new record?! ;D