SimRacing.org.uk

All members welcome

Practice 1: 20:00 (20 mins) (Aim is to see if a longer praccy session effects the number of CTD's experienced)
Qual 2: 20:20 (20 mins)
Race: 20:40 (26 laps (=~40 mins)) note: no warmup!


Cars allowed: Cobra 289 Roadster, Jaguar Lightweight, Corvette L72 Coupe, Shelby GT350 CASC, Ferrari 275, Ford Falcon Weslake Heads, Alfa Romeo Volumetrico, Shelby GT350 SCCA, Jaguar E-Type Coupe, Jaguar E Type Roadster, Corvette Z06, Corvette L76 Roadster, Ferrari 250GT, Mustang ATCC, Falcon Sprint/Mann, BSCC GR5 Mustang

Weather: Dry
Track: Mosport 1977 (download from  here (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3356.msg54521#post_mosport77))
Time of Day Setting: 15:00
Start: STANDING
Minimum Pit-stops: None.


Server: [PnG2.1] UKPnG S1 Mosport
Password: see above (#post_event_password)

Notes:
(1) It's best if all drivers can make sure they are connected before the Qualifying session as drivers on track during qualifying will not see cars that join after they are on track until they go back to the garage.
(2) Please make sure you are fully aware of the SimRacing.org.uk Rules (https://www.simracing.org.uk/index.php?pid=7) especially the rules about in-game chat messages.
(3) You will need to install Power and Glory v2 from here (http://www.gtlw.co.uk/), 2.1 patch from here (http://www.gtlw.co.uk/) and enable terrain patch.
(4) Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R;group=214)
(5) Drivers are reminded that they must select ISDN as their bandwidth, otherwise the stability of every-one's connection will be reduced.
(6) Remember that P&G has no 'Pit Speed Limiter' function, but our gentleman's agreement is that everyone will stick to a speed limit for the pit-lane of 40mph/60kph.

IMPORTANT
UKPnG Season One will continue to use our 'clubmans' approach, the idea that the faster drivers are in the slower cars, as hopefully it should encourage more close racing.

The cars chosen can be divided into 4 chassis groups:

A
Cobra 289 Roadster, Jaguar Lightweight, Shelby GT350 CASC

B
Corvette L72 Coupe, Ferrari 275, Ford Falcon Weslake Heads, Shelby GT350 SCCA

C
Alfa Romeo Volumetrico, Jaguar E-Type Coupe, Corvette Z06, Mustang ATCC, Falcon Sprint/Mann

D
Corvette L76 Roadster, Ferrari 250GT, BSCC GR5 Mustang, Jaguar E Type Roadster


Our "regulars" can be, very roughly divided into Four groups. (If you're name's not listed below & you'd like to race with us, please say Hi on this thread & give us an idea of your pace :)

GROUP 1 can only choose from slowest chassis group D
Dan Minton, Madd, Paul 968, Ginsters, PR, Steve Holmes, Jos Verstappen, TrueTom, Jose Arrogantio, Ayrton4_94.

GROUP 2  can choose between chassis C and D.
Ade, Oily, [Poodle]Keith, FMG, Watty, Manteos, phspok, MJ, Mike Cook, Lazlow, Blunder, Legzy, Pippomax.

GROUP 3 can choose between chassis B, C and D.
DaveShep, Tim Robey, Spanner, Tinman, SamB, Geoffers, Ross, Phil Gilliland, Tibernius, Picnic, 57Goldtop, Lars Sch.

GROUP 4 can choose between chassis A, B, C and D.
PaulWBird, Alex vV, Wiltshire Tony, LigelC, Sandor Mooijekind, Lorenzo Galluzzi, Bill Thomas, Oilseal, Jimmer.


Hope you all enjoy.

Another cracking vintage period racing track and great car choices  8)...top work Mr Legzy, your majesty  ;D

Is the Group D Ferrari 250 the competition version?

Initial times of 1.38 around a nice flowing track.  ;)

Which ever F250 you want Madd (though I know which I'd be picking) ;)

Thanks, I really liked this track too.

Just gave the GT350 SCCA a few laps, is it me or is there more down bits than up bits on this track.

GT350 SCCA................1:38.296

Don't try & baffle us with your technical terms. Keep it simple like Tony did about the Nords:
::) ;)
I still think he made that up!


But you might want to check your screen isn't tilted back to far? :-\ ;)
Generally, these games seem to cope better with telling our brain we're going down hill then up. That's not to say that's not the case here... the only way I can ever tell the terrain usually, is to do a lap & watch the replay from TV view. You get a better idea then.

The best geo-spatial proof test is to do a couple of laps then watch the replay running in reverse looking from the front of the car, rearward.

Top class work again Legzy :thumbup1:
Did a few laps in the 250 Competition with race fuel, best time was a 1:39.2

I will be hoping to make this race......add me in a category of your choosing please Legzy  :)

Now, what's before A? Err...  :P

Will be great to have you with us  :)
Off the top of my head, I'd suggest you have a go with Chassis 'Group C' cars Bob. As always, if your times compare to the others already listed, then I dare say you're on the right track. 8)


p.s. I don't know if you've had a go at P&G yet, but a lot of people find the default P&G setups a bit "wooden" to start, but with a decent setup they feel awesome. You'll find a few setups under a " ! SROU P&G" folder in the online setups, that might help you feel your way back or anybody who just didn't know they were there.

After a few laps practicing, I managed a 1:37.1 in the Falcon and a 1:37.9 in the Jag Coupe. I have to say sliding the Falcon around Mosport is the most fun I've had in PnG so far  ;D. Here's hoping I can sustain such a pace and not just a one lap wonder, which I've been doing all too oftan of late.

The track is very difficult but I like it.

There are some mine laptimes(I will add some laptimes next days)

1.35.3 with the corvette Z06.
1.37.9 with the corvette L76 roadster
1.37.1 with the mustang BSCC
1.36.8 with the ferrari 250

Couple of times from me. Only tried the US beasts so far, great fun around here. 8) Its a tricky circuit with all off camber sweeping downhill bends, not to mention that tricky tight double right hander !
I do wonder how much carnage may happen on race day if someone gets spun mid turn here as there is nowhere for the cars to go except into the concrete walls  :o

Shelby GT350 SCCA 1:37.3
Corvette Z06 1:37.6
Vette L76 Roadster 1:39.1

I remember this track as a tricky one from Sportscar GT. Not made a lap yet. As I tend to avoid US pitbull cars I'll probably take the Fezza.  :)

I remember Mosport well from my GPL days, it's a tough track to get right, particularly turn 2 and the Moss hairpin.

Here are a few times from me (more qually than race pace).....

Corvette L72 Coupe  1:36.7
Shelby 350 CASC  1:36.4
Ferrari 275  1:38.0
Falcon Westlake 1:38.4

I also tried the Ferrari 275 Speciale, and that beast does fly.... 1:34.1  :o

Will take the L72 for an extended run later, as I'm having trouble with tyre temps on the left front on all the cars except the fezza.

I remember this place......I actually watched a race there live in 1982 whilst over visiting a cousin in Canada.

It was a cwap race btw, in actual fact I remember being much more interested in the giant lift lock on the river than the motorsport  ::)

Got a few more times for you all,

Fezza 275 special, 1.32 (bonkers car!)

289 roadster       , 1.34.5

May try some others tomorrow to see how they compare.

When people read Madd's times on these cars, bear in mind they are not options for him to drive in the race, so don't panic that you're way off his crazy pace!!! LOL  :laugh:

But they are helpful to me Madd, for checking my workings out  :)

Some laptimes for me:
Corvette Z06: 1.35.7
SHELBY 350 gt SCCA: 1.35.1
Tomorrow i'll try some other cars :)
CU guys!

What is the time limit?

No time limit this week, hopefully your times are similar to the other guys posting times so far.

But even if they're not, the other person might have put in a lot more practice. :)

Hi all i'am Peppe i come from Italy and i like race with GTL and P&G!
lot of graces to Manteos, Pippomox and Ayrton4_94  that have told me this forum. ;D ;D

Welcome Pepz. For P&G you've already found what our next race is (Mosprt on Tuesday night)... just post a couple of times here in a couple of different cars & I'll let you know which group you should probably be driving.

GTL, we have a race at Estoril (see top right corner of your screen) on Thursday night, 1st race of the new endurance season.

Benvenuto/Welcome Pepz,  :)

crikey Legzy you are going to have to hold England V Italy Historics racing events at this rate  ;D  My Italian missus might approve of that  ;)

How about Jags v Ferraris at a track in Italy and one in England?  8)

Still need to try a few more cars out here, i think i should be quicker in the Jag E-Type but really enjoy flinging the US muscle cars around here.  8)

I've managed a 1:37.9 in the Alfa tonight  8)

Nice idea for the gap between this season and the next.

It might be a great idea :)... we need only to find 2 tracks where Jags and Ferrari have a similar pace... let me know if it's possible to realize it, we could host the italian race in our VDA server and you could host the 2nd. Let me know what you think about it :)

Although my life is being controlled by my COPD (severe lung problem) at the moment and I haven't been able to take part in any races either here or over at GBSRC for a few weeks now  :cursing:- following another visit to the Surgery this evening and being started on another course of tablets (think I'm up to 16 now and rattle a lot when I walk ;D ) I am very optimistic that I will be at Mosport (great circuit) and hope to be giving the light weight Jag an airing.

If I can't make it wont be for the lack of enthusiasm I can assure you.  Good luck everyone

Laurie

Hi Laurie, missed you in both leagues.  Hope your new medication does the trick for you, fingers crossed we'll see you here racing next Tuesday.

Bill

OK, here are some times (10 laps or so of fuel)

SHELBY GT-350R CASC                                 1.33.5 (quicker now)
SHELBY COBRA 289 ROADSTER                      1.34.2
SHELBY GT-350R SCCA                                 1.34.3
CHEVROLET CORVETTE C2 L72 COUPE             1.34.6
E-TYPE LIGHTWEIGHT                                   1.35.1
FERRARI 275 GTB/C                                       1.35.6
CHEVROLET CORVETTE C2 Z06                       1.35.6
FALCON WESLAKE                                         1.36.1
CHEVROLET CORVETTE C2 L76 ROADSTER         1.36.8
ALFA ROMEO GTA VOLUMETRICO                     1.36.9
FERRARI 250 GT SWB COMPETIZIONE               1.37.3

The GTA and the 350 had very few laps and may be faster now. The 65 z06 vette is too quick for it's group, but the 62 cars are about right. Trouble is, they are pants to drive compared to the 65 car - understeer everywhere  :(

[updated with e-type, falcon & 275]

I really hope to see you at Mosport Laurie.  ;)

OK sorry guys, been out of town so couldn't do this sooner...

Made some final changes to the groupings:

Shelby GT350 CASC moved to Group A (people were much to fast in this car compered to the others in the group)

Shelby GT350 SCCA moved to Group B (people were much to fast in this car compered to the others in the group)

Corvette Z06, Mustang ATCC, Falcon Sprint/Mann moved to Group 'C'.

BSCC GR5 Mustang, Jaguar E Type Roadster added to Group 'D' (seemed a bit harsh to only have two to choose from)

Much as I hate to say it Legz (because I'd love to drive the ATCC), they are both capable of doing mid 35s, and the ATCC can probably do a 34. The ATCC is a complete hoot to drive - tail out everywhere! It eats its tyres though so you need to fit the hardest compound (reds). Even so I had a 35.5 without too much trouble. This all applies only to the 405 hp 66 car - the others are far too slow. The Mann Falcon is completely different to drive. Very understeery, I could just about get a set up that felt OK, and with that had a 35.7 and the lap was far from perfect.

[Update - comments on ATCC now superceded by change to BSCC Mustang]

Hmm, finally got round to driving the 350 SCCA, and it is quick! 1.34.3, and in a car which is just so nice to drive. You can make it do just what you want without it feeling out of control at all - brilliant!

my time
ALFA ROMEO GTA VOLUMETRICO 1.37.4
SHELBY COBRA 289 ROADSTER    1.36.7
CHEVROLET CORVETTE C2 Z06    1.38.6
FERRARI 275 GTB/C                   1.36.8

Thanks Pepz, I would suggest you take a car from Chassis Group C for this race (i.e. You'll probably be about right in the Alfa). I'll add you to a drivers group officially after your first race  :)

Has anyone else driven the Jag Coupe or Roadster from group C? I can't get either quicker than a 37, which is group D territory for me.

I've tried the group C Jags e- type, and i totally agree with you! It seems really difficult for me get quicker than 38...

Thanks Manteos/Paul, I've moved the Roadster version down now to be also available to the Group D speed demons!  ;)

Sorry guys I won't be able to make this one, prior engagement with a few pints! :P Not really a great fan of the track anyway. Cya at the next race.

What am I doing wrong?
Got the GTR2 disc and the GTL. GTR2 loads fine then I go to run the Power and Glory download and get "close P&g2/gtr2 program and/or directory before trying to install this udate." - HELP

Vos, i assume you have installed GTR2 and its 1.1.0.0 patch ? Make sure the applications closed once installed then run the P&G installer using the option that uses your GTR2 install to make a P&G version. You just need to have the GTL disk sitting in the CD tray for it P&G to do its quick check that you have it. Once P&G is installed you do not need the GTL disk in anymore.

1:38.4 in the E-Type coupe for me.

Strange because it feels like your doing a quicker laptime than in the wayward US cars but the laptime says otherwise, must be the power disadvantage?  :-\. Feels good around here though, like all the cars i have tried so far  :)

1:37.027 in the Mustang ATCC. Prob can do 1:36's with a few more laps as did that time within 10 laps with no pre-sorted setup. A real blast holding it on the gas throttle mid fast apex  8)

Anyone know what I have done wrong?

Installed PnG no prob....it works fine right up to the point where I press 'continue' to load the car/track combo and then simply dissapears and puts me back to desktop.  ??? No error messages etc, just a blank screen then desktop.

I'm running

Windows Vista home prmium 64 bit
Inted core quad Q8200
4 gig ram
Nvidia 250GT graphics card.

Any ideas?

I'm guessing this is for offline? Try reducing the No of AI opponents or if your doing a race weekend try to do a practise session first, just to prove that your P&G is installed ok. You have all the patches installed?

All patches installed and this is happening both offline and online.....private test session offline so no AI.

I am going to wipe it and try a fresh install....see what happens.

maybe try reinstalling the track only? or is it happening on all track/car combos ? Also try deleting the hat files from your user log dir and then try loading the track again.

Don't know if this will help, but the 1st time I installed P&G, I had a few similar problems (IIRC) when I didn't restart after each stage of the install process.

Thanks chaps, fresh install seems to have done the trick...all working as it should now.

Must have done something wrong on previous install  ???....but not a clue what.

Just need to find another 10 seconds or so round mosport now.  ::)

Got a quick run out yesterday - another absolute cracker of a circuit, right up my street - loads of fun but man am I sloooooooow.

Took the Alfa, Stang and Jags out for a few laps each and not able to get within 3secs a lap of those times Paul's posting lol. More practice needed but it actually feels quite hooked up which is always worrying. Hoping it's due to practising offline I really do!

I'll have to get some praccy in tonight if the server's up - it's going to be a fantastic race though given the amount of commitment needed through those fast downhill left handers!

It is a cracking track isn't it! It took me about three corners to decide I wanted to use this Mosport! 8)

lol Just remember Paul's doing pretty much 1:37's in the cars he can take & even I managed 1:37 in the Alfa :laugh:

only tried the e-type and the alfa so far.....1:39 jag / 1:37:7 alfa

Legzy will use the alfa? ???
 

What would be the problem if he did Pepz?

Hi Pepz,
I'm thinking you're meaning, 'What cars can Pepz use? '
You can use any of the following:

Cheers
Legzy

hi all

my problem is the fuel because the alfa have a small reservoir and i succeed in ending only 26 laps....I wanted to ask if it were possible to make 25 laps.
Thx all
Pepz

Ah, that would be a problem! Even 25 is right on the limit.

Hmmm, fuel consumption must be higher in Italy  ;) ;) ;)

My race setup for the Alfa Volumetrico allows me to complete 29 laps! (2.05L per lap) So 26 would be no problem.
I also noticed that there are four higher gear ratio's then the one I'm using (Final = 9/43), so I could make the car travel even more laps.

If anyone else has any fuel usage figures for the Alfa to compare?... :)

now have changed my set and i have reached 28 laps...
thx for all see u later tomorrow
Pepz

Here is my test,
One out lap and two laps.
Corvette L76 Roadster - 1.39 low
Ferrari 250 GT - 1.39 low
Mustang BSCC gr.5 - 1.39 low
Jaguar E-Type Roadster - 1.39 low   ::)

Tomorrow I will throw a coin to chose a car.  :-\

and just for curiosity, Alpine Renault 1300 - 1.39 high  8)

2.06 for me in the Alfa! No worries!

Thanks for the advice - all now working, had to reboot the machine for each update. Won't be up to scratch for this race but will start plugging at it...

Some of us found P&G cars quite tough to set up at first & therefore frustrating. If you're finding the cars 'hard work' to drive, just give us a shout & we'll try to help.  :)

Much appreciated. I'm fitting this in around my GPL practice - good to do something different. Got a 1.41 in the e-type at Mosport when I finally got it to work last night so a bit of work to do. Using the GPL principles to do the car setups on PnG. Really like the 'ghost car' practice mode and the weather option was interesting, lightning and thunder while driving. Might see you guys on the practice server (managed to find it).

One question (sorry to turn the race post into a help forum  ;)), how do I enable the terrain patch? Couldn't find anything in the PnG file directory.

You should be fine then :).
Doubt you need to in GPL, so I will suggest aiming your rear ride height to be about 3cm higher then the front when possible in P&G. Seems to make life easier 8).


From the start menu, under P&G (IIRC).

Still no idea what car to take here  ::)

from the category I reckon I should pick from, I am only remotely competetive in the alfa.....but thats sooooo boring, taking granny to tesco's type stuff.

From the next fastest category....there is only the Shelby I like* (*read: 'can drive at all') and it would probably be too fast.  :-\

can somebody post an E-type coupe setup that allows the front (steering) wheels to work please? I love the car just can't get it to go round corners  ::) (drag race anyone?  ;D)

The Jag coupe is easily the slowest car in group C Bob. The z06 vette is a better choice I would have thought. Just make sure you select the 65 car and not the slower and less powerful 62 cars.

Psuedo have a look in the online setup files, near the top is a SROU P&G folder, should see my Goodwood setup, just had 3 laps and got down to very low 1:38s only thing i changed was diff power up to 90% and coast down to 40%
I see Legzy has a Jag setup on there to.

Edit..... after a few more laps in the Jag coupe got a PB of 1:36.988 most in the 1:37s
                                            

                                             catch you later

I've managed 1:39s in it, about the same pace as the GT350. I'm using a modified setup from the ! SROU P&G folder, I think it's one of Ade's.

Bugger, not my best evening's racing - sorry Madd, didn't manage to avoid you as you were recovering fom your spin.

Summed up by  'should have taken the bloody Alfa...'

Cheers, Ross.

Nightmare!
After the start, I realised I'd lost my FF. Very dificult to drive (very first time it happened to me).
On second lap, following Psuedo, I saw Madd spinning before the double hairpin and trying
to rejoin race, I'd put my main atention on Madd and lost concentration, forgeting that 250's brakes
are better than Mustang. Hit Psuedo made him spun and we lost several positions, waited for
Psuedo to keep going. Unfortunately I was so p****** that I made a mistake and spun (alone)
I was so mad with myself for ruinning Psuedo's race that with no FF and the noob mistake,
I just pressed ESC, posted these stupid words and going straight to bed now.  >:(

Deep apologies Psuedo.

Cheers

Feel almost guilty to say, that was one heck of a RACE!
Got mugged at the start as usual, decided to be polite and let people sort themselves out
Then some fell off, I did something dumb somewhere, and found myself at the back of a
train with TT, Blunder, and umm others, did some suicidal passes round the outside of the brow
down to Moss Hairpins, a couple of times, could only attempt such moves with people I trust  :)

Had a corker of a chase pass/get passed with Tim Robey, that vette was so much quicker
down the straight, and you managed to hussle it round the turns quick enough that
I could not build much gap when i got in front. most excellent driving Tim!

The first half of the race was good. I made a half decent getaway into 3rd, began battling with Paul for 2nd, and even lead briefly, when Ayrton made a small error which allowed me through. Eventually I made a slight error which allowed Aryton through and despite me being in a faster car, I just couldn't catch him. By about half race distance, the Falcon had eaten it's tyres alive and frankly, the next half of the race was a disaster.

First, Paul began to catch me and passed me when I lost the back end into turn 2. Rejoined in 3rd for a few laps and then somehow managed to spin myself round at the last turn when I clipped the kerb  :-\. This demoted my down to 4th, and then to top it all off, I ran wide on the approach to Moss and just had to slide inbetween the gap of the barriers which forced me to do a u-turn, and rejoin in 9th behind Blunder and Truetom. Had a nice little battle with both of them and was up to 7th. By now the Falcon such a handful it was difficult to keep in on the straight and narrow. Reminded me somewhat of GPL with the amount of steering correction I was having to do! Was fun though  ;D! Congrats to the podium, with any luck I will be able to grace the podium this season.

Thanks PB, accepted  :) :angel:

well that was my first experience of PnG.....and some experience.

Never been too good in the GTL yank tanks, but there wasn't much else for me to choose from as I couldn't get the jag to go and I found the alfa boring.

So opted for the 'stang. was quite suprised to get a pb and qually 13th....I fully expected to be near the back.

Got tagged on lap 1 with a gaggle of cars trying to go round the hairpin together but I was hit dead centre so they just bounced off  8).
Next lap I got tagged as above by PB, which lost us both a load of places waiting to rejoin...22nd I think it was....thanks for waiting too PB, sorry I didn't flash you a thanks, but my lights were already haddocked by then  :laugh:
Started playing catch up and got to the main group after a couple of laps....made a couple of places due to folk falling off and a couple more from passing down the straight with the stangs power.
I did get balked a couple of times, once it appeared that I was pushed onto the grass whilst overtaking down the straight and another time by a re-joiner hogging the racing line forcing me to slam on and attempt (failed) to go round the outside.  :( will wait to review the replay before further comment.
Had a great battle with Mr Oily for half a dozen laps, real close stuff with 2 cars rarely facing front and centre.....no contact and some great driving  :thumbup2:

Will have another bash in a couple of weeks, just hope there are some NON YANK TANK cars to choose  ;D

Grats to podium

Not your fault at all Ross, I was just unsighted as I rejoined, I heard your car as it got very near but didn't spot you, hope you were able to continue, I couldn't my engine would not restart, Many apologies to all, a truly shockingly bad display of numptyness on my part.  ::)

No probs mate. Broke the car unfortunately but I was struggling with that Vette anyhow so nothing lost. 

Cheers, Ross

Replay and provisional results posted

LapChart (http://www.granum.plus.com/20090630%20P1/index.html)

I couldn't find the forum ID for [VDA] Peppe so he's a guest just now

Forum ID for [VDA] Peppe is "Pepz", but is the first race here for him...

The lapchart link is broken for me Pete.

good race...was a bumpy ride, (as is getting bumped... :P) but I made it to the end I had some thrilling racing :)

respect to paul and ayrton for being so fast in the fezza.  :angel:

I've always found it works better if you upload these things (well it it late ;))

Thx Pete - above and beyond the call of duty anyway since you didn't even race!

Nice race for me.

I do the pole position(the thing that I like better) with a good lap.

The race is very difficult until the Samb error. After I don't take needless risks and finish the race in first position.

I'm very happy not for my first position in drivers classification, but for the first position in teams classification.
Pippomox and Manteos are unlucky in this race. Instead wonderful race for Pepz.

I'm grateful to all drivers. In particular manner for the podium. Paul968 was very fast and for me was very difficult to control its timelaps.

Sorry for bad english  :angel:

See you to the next race  ;D

Wow, wow, wow!!
What a race!
So many bumper to bumper / heart stopping moments through the race it is difficult to remember them all!  ;D
Had lots of great battles all race. I can honestly say there was not 1 lap where I wasn't battling with someone!
That is the whole point of the Clubmans set up and for me it work perfectly!
A reflection on the amount of time Legzy has spent researching this!  :thumbup2: :thumbup2: :thumbup2:
Made one very minor error and went wide through turn 2. Only lost a few seconds but 4 cars went past!
Battled to keep up with the mighty TT all race and finally got the better of him a few laps from the end.
Only, I suspect because he was struggling with tyres!
Great pass in the final couple of laps Samb! Passed me on the outside of the lefthander before the slow double rights!!
Awesome!

I kept telling MJ that PnG was the best ! if only he had listened!  ;D

Thanks all

M.

P.S When can I have my rev counter back!  :'(

Hehe, nice driving throughout the race, Martin. We swapped places a few times, with others also. 8) 

Yea, tyres were an issue here. Car was surprisingly nifty around the corners for a Yank Tank and it was also not too fast on a straight - not a very typical Yank, lol.  :D   Well, tyres were ok for the first half, then it was worse and worse - was as high as 6th for a time, then lost places in the last laps.  :-\  Front left was just under 30 worn, and I used the harder one. :eek:

There was somebody around all the time so no free-time. Nice. Well done, Legz!  :thumbup1:

Grats pody

Thanks Matt, I really enjoyed that :) lots of side by side racing :thumbup2: for nearly 20 laps!!!!  :o

I've been away for a long weekend, but managed to get home just in time for the race. I've clicked with the L72 last week so stuck with it.

Surprised myself with a P3 in qually, but got away poorly at the start and Sam & others passed me.

After a couple of spins early on I dropped back to 10th but soon got into a battle with Blunder, TT & Matt, I could blast past them on the straight, but they hustled me on the twisty bits.

I spent most of the race racing Matt's alfa, if I could stay with him at the hairpin I could blast past on the back straight, only for Matt to pass me in turn 2 or the hairpin. I only managed to get a gap when Matt span at turn 2, but the last 5-6 laps were tough, the front tyres were gone and Matt had closed in to within 1s or so, but I held onto 5th place, my best ever UKGPL finish  ;D

I found driving that yank tank for an hour in that heat blinking hard work, ive even got a blister on my left hand !  :P

Good track and great spread of cars, though the track felt very narrow during the early half of the race with other cars all around, and i found i could not use the Vettes horsepower to get past slower cars on several occasions until the back straight.

Had some good early battles with the midfield but the top 10 were 10+ seconds up the road by 12 laps  ::) meaning i had a long spell in the middle of the race with no-one to fight. My main protagonist was Mike cook in his E-type and we seemed to shadow each other and swap places a few times through the race.

I was running 10th with about 3 laps to go when i ran wide on that final sweeping turn and lost 3 places to following convoy of cars  :wetfish:

Was disapointed in qually to only be 18th on the grid with a mid '37 and see that the top 10 had all done 1:36's.  ??? which is why the clubmans classing doesnt seem to be working for me so far. I seem to be forced into a car that puts me 1 to 2 secs behind half the grid in each race, whereas i thought the idea was to equalise the performance spread  :(  I felt happy in the shelby GT350 as i could at least do regular 37's in it, but then because the odd alien reported fast times in it, it was moved into the next grouping leaving me in cars that i could do the odd '37 in with a clear track and no distraction, but mainly 38's, especially in the race proper.
I think we are being a bit punitive in car groupings for the group C&D drivers. A car should only be moved into a higher group if the drivers in that lower group 'are' putting in perceived faster laps in it, rather than a driver from that higher group saying this car can do a xx. time.
Maybe the groupings should be reviewed right upto race day as it appears that alot of drivers suddenly pop in laptimes way quicker in some supposed slower cars, leaving others stuck in cars with no hope of competing at the front end, or that their talents (or lack of) allows them too. It might just be me not being very good in the US cars but interested to see what others think, as there is no denying the laptimes gap.

Thanks Psuedo.  :)

I quite agree with MJ. I would have been at the sharp end in the 350 at race pace but couldn't get within a second in the Stang.
Having said that, I know from experience that it is a next too impossible job catergorising cars due to differing driver abillity, and an even less thankful job trying to catergorise drivers too.  :o So absolutely no fault of Legzy's or WT's if things aren't always perfect.

IMO, with it being a clubmans championship, ie relying heavily on folk 'doing the right thing' and selecting appropriate cars, it could be best if the top two or three drivers post their average times for a track as early as possible b4 the race, in the car they are going to/most likely to use. This would then give the rest of us a chance to find out what car (if any) we can get to within striking distance of those times and possibly make for even closer races.

Agree.
It is happening to me also Mark. Always qualifying 2nd half of the field.
So, or we are in a wrong group or we are slow drivers.  :)
Anyway, this is the first season on P&G and the intention is to obtain experience to the next one.
Mr. Legzy is doing an astonishing job.  ;)

Heh, this might be the "what was first, an egg or a chicken?" question. I also qualified 17th, then went upwards. Would be nice to quali a bit higher, though I'm not sure how to solve this problem - if it is a problem at all.  :)

Yes, thats my thoughts too. I did mention this at the last race via Pm, that if its obvious a target time is un-attainable for drivers in a certain group bracketed into a certain car(s) then surely they should be able to try a car from the next group up that gives them the opportunity to at least compete with the top 10. We dont expect to be given a car to beat alien drivers in but we should at least have the opportunity to race against them/ give them a harder time.

None of this is meant as criticising Legz and Tony,  just asking for a little more flexibility to close the gap between top 10 and rest of field because last night proved the target time is being beaten by a second for the top 10 whilst more than half the field struggle to stay within that target time on a consistent basis. Maybe we need to post aggregate laptimes instead of PB's to set target times for the car groupings  :-\

Another great race guys! Started from 9th place after a crash during qualif (when i was 2nd...), i tried to make an unlucky comeback, even if i was faster than drivers in front of me... My usual unlucky began when i found a twisted car in front of me at the hairpin, and i was not able to avoid the crash, that caused a suspention damage to my car that i've brought back all the race... it happens...
After that I began to make a lot of mistakes and lose some position, until the 14th... I replaced the gap with the drivers in front of me and i had some great battle, that let me make a lot of overtakes and have a great fun with some of you! In the end i conquered a 10th position, not happy about the final result, but really amused in the duels!
Great result for the VDA team, that could be even better if Pippo's wife had not removed the plug of the modem during the start :(... anyway great debut of Peppe in 3rd place, and GRATS to Gavino (aka ayrton4_94 aka flying Sardinian) for his first race won here! U.F.O Driver!!!
As ever Grats to Legzy for the great event organization! Cu at the next one!
 

I love this series and I think Legzy is doing an exceptional job in creating the conditions for close and exciting racing throughout the field. Last night most of the quali times and best race laps were within 2 seconds of pole which is a great achievement considering the range of driver ability.

Some less than impressive driving by some IMO, particularly the individual stationary mid track during quali which ruined my best lap >:(  My early exit was also the result of trying to dodge past a slow recovering driver after they had punted someone off track.

Also, is it really necessary for some to drive with headlights on in the daylight ???

Well that was a great race  8) i was still practicing in the Shelby GT350 SCCA on Monday night until Legzy mentioned on teamspeak that it had been moved up a class :( so gave the Mustang ATCC a go in a 3 lap race with a rushed setup but got a high 1:36 in it so it looked a bit too fast for me  :o so i went with the Jag (didn't fancy wrestling a Yank tank round in the heat anyway) :sweatdrop:
Was hitting 1:37s with it in race trim and could get one high 1:36 lap in Quali trim so it was good to go.
After everything had settled after the start and folk had done their falling off ;D i had some fun with Oilseal   in his Cobra 289, we would be side by side at the end of the back straight then i could get a bit of a lead on the twisty bits then he was back on my case again on the straight 8) (until he ran wide at T2) :(
Then the chase was on for Pepz (sorry for the tap at Moss corner) :-[ when you ran wide, good to see you held it together :thumbup1: couldnt catch him though  :o

I see folk had some tyre wear problems,  i tried the Dunlop R5 D9 (hard i think) but with more side slip they would overheat and not cool down quick enough on the straights, with the Dunlop R5 D12 (soft i think) i had less side slip, less heat buildup so they cooled down quicker with less tyre wear.
Out of interest, what tyres did Lazlow run on the Jag ? i was on 11 on the front left when he said he was on 12 and i definitely wasn't being kind to the rubber ;D (I think that's how it works) :detective:  :blink:

                           Great race all, thanks to legzy and Tony for another fine race :clap: :thumbup2:

                                                               Next, Cheers Ade

Thanks, I got CTD rejoining for practice - AGAIN.  By the time I'd rebooted and got on line last time you were all in qualifying.  This time I got into practice and was able to settle down by the time qualifying started.

In the race I got knocked wide in the hairpin and lost a couple of places and had a few laps battle with an Alfa - Legzy I think.  Was steadily drawing away from him when I over cooked it all on my own and went off on the hairpin again.  We had a close battle then till I went off on the exit to T1 and wrecked my suspension.  Thanks for the race.

Bill

Ofcourse it isn't.
I don't race with headlights on at GTREVO, GTL and RFACTOR. However, I turn on at P&G,
because it is lovely to see the all the well made dashboards with lights.
If any Admin state that it will be forbiden (which I don't believe), I will let them off.  :'(
This is my reason of having the lights on.  ;D

Cheers

Well I really enjoyed that! Which is somewhat odd because I span myself off 4 times & as a result spent a lot of the race on my own, right at the back but catching lap by lap the cars in front.

So two early spins in the first two laps put me dead last  ::). I then managed to pass a couple of people, mostly down to them going off/wide & then engaged in a good scrap with Bill. I felt I was about a second a lap quicker, but there was no way past. He defended well through the corners & had just enough extra speed that I couldn't quite stick with him down the straight. Repeated those laps about five/six times, only broken up the once when I caught a kerb lost a bit of momentum at the wrong time ::). But just as we started to engage again, Bill  had a moment & I slipped through & away. Think he retired soon after, so no defending on my part required sadly. Cheers Bill  :)

I then had to make up a fifteen second gap to the next car & did it with about 6 laps to go (would have been sooner if I'd not got over excited when he first came into view & I span myself again). Team mate Lazlow was struggling with tyres & went badly wide & onto the grass, so no fight there either. But Oily was just twenty yards up the road & we were immediately scrapping ;D His American brute v my elegant Italian Alfa. Yup, all over him in the corners & just trying to stick with him on the straight. LOL, I loved it!  8)
Managed to sneak past with 1.5 laps to go & smugly told him on TS that "he needed to take me on this straight or you've no chance"... errr, he caught me & I blew my braking ::) he was straight past but I still had a chance, till I tried too hard to force a move that meant I clipped the grass & spun. Gutted that the fight wasn't to the very finish, but really enjoyed it while it lasted. Cheers Oily  :)


Thanks to all that drove, sounds like you enjoyed it too. I do like that track.  8)

Thanks again to Legzy for all his good work  :thumbup1:

I locked up and under-steered in to your car, totally my fault.   ::)
I was going to stop and let you past at the next bend but ended up spinning in to retirement.
Glad to see you made it to the finnish!

I didn’t realise you had an overlap when I moved over I thought you had just taped my rear.
I would of let you past had I known it was my fault, sorry.  :-[

hi all
my first race with P&G it has been very cool and very amusing infact i I have had an a good battle to distance with Ade  :fencing:, very thx to Legzy for the realization of this champ :thumbup1:.

Another great results of the team VDA especially to Ayrton. Manteos and Pippomox in the next race i want you in the first 6 position ;D ;D

ps: no problem Ade for the small push after all they are runs of cars ;)

my tag name is "[VDA] Peppe" nope Pepz sorry for the problem :)

see u later in the next race
Pepz

I enjoyed that more than I expected. I thought the tanks would be in their element with the long straight, but things seemed to balance out nicely. Ayrton was in another league in qual, but the race for the other slots near the front was pretty intense. 4th was a good place to start from, and not long after the start there were only 3 of us fighting it out  - Ayrton, myself and Samb in his falcon. He was warping around a bit, which made it rather scary at times, but he was hanging on grimly and it only a matter of time until he could stay close enough through the hairpin to get a run down the straight. After that he was chasing Ayrton, who made a mistake in the end and let Samb in front. I watched them duke it out for quite a few laps (great to watch guys!  :thumbup1:) until Ayrton got in front again, and then Samb's tyres started to wilt. He was all over the shop, and in the end he fell victim to the evil T2, leaving me to vainly chase after Ayrton. We were pretty well matched to the end, but I think he was just controlling the gap and had a little in reserve had I got close. Very Happy with 2nd, and really enjoyed driving the lovely 250 again. Ayrton proved that he is clearly a bit too fast for his own good, so I can see a Healey beckoning in the future for him ;D

I completely disagree that the cars were not balanced. Within each group there is a spread of ability, a spread of car strength (they can't be exactly the same) and most importantly a spread of effort - some put in a lot of time and others do a lot less. Now, if you take the exceptional Ayrton out of the equation, we has 19 cars within 1.5 secs on the grid, all with a wide range of ability and cars. I'd say that was pretty successful! MJ - looking at your pace in the z06, you were only 0.1 secs quicker in qual than you posted on the forum a week before! At that stage I was struggling to get out of the 38s in the 250. Maybe you didn't practice as much as some of the others?

Yeah, really great effort by everyone to turn up in the heat! I've now been up into the loft to get a desk-fan for the next race!  :sweatdrop:


LOL, too much close racing for you?  :lol:


Martin said something similar to me, I'm dead chuffed with last night. Only one finisher was lapped & being able to get to the end of a race, falling off & three cars are straight past, suggests that the field was close. That's what I'm aiming for.


Some of the slower drivers in faster cars will be able to put together a few fast laps in the race, don't worry too much about where you are on the grid, just do the best you can. The key I'm sure you're aware to being a fast driver is hitting fast laps regularly. Blunder qualified in 19th but managed to drive constantly at a good pace & was up to 8th as he crossed the line. But you are correct that some of the fast drivers yesterday were able to set shockingly fast times in the slow cars (mostly through the amount of practice time they were putting in :o :notworthy:). People (& cars) will be "rewarded" where required.


Bearing in mind, what I just said... I'm happy with the changes I made, though I'm disappointed I was unable to make the changes for you all sooner.

 
I take on board what you're saying, but the leader board does not agree. The top eight are all drivers of the Group C&D cars. But it's early days & it's still far from perfect, that's for sure  :)

p.s. other people have also made good points/questions too, I've just run out of time at the mo.

No probs mate, I didn't even know it was you (not looked at replay yet) but appology accepted....these things happen, I just like to point them out so folk are aware of them.  :)

Sorry about the warp Paul. Not the first time my ruddy internet has given me a substandard connection. Your car seemed fine and fluid from my perspective so I simply didn't know I was warping.

For future events, should anyone feel I'm lagging to such an extent, just type "Sam lag" or something and I will quit. Did enjoy the battle though!

Very few things to relate about .....

Got a good qual with low '36 (I had to make it twice, since P&G crashed after my first attempt in qual ...) that led me
to a brilliant second position in the grid, despite my practice in this track was limited to a dozen of laps done on Monday night.
Very very unexpected !!!!

I'm also very disappointed for the race that I could not even start due to a "undesirable" unplugging of my router (damn wife's ....).
Ayrton wouldn't have had so easy race without my disconnection  ;D ;D ;D

See all of you in the next track !  8)

Yes it was good fun Legzy,  You said "But just as we started to engage again, Bill  had a moment & I slipped through & away. Think he retired soon after, so no defending on my part required sadly."  No it was that moment that wrecked my suspension.  As you were catching me through that last turn/T1, I thought I could take the racing line and perhaps get away from you but my ambition exceeded my skill and heavy right boot.

Bill

This was the 1st race in P&G where I've been able to take a car I like...
so far have been forced to drive cars I would usually avoid, and I most definately am not the quickest
pilote in my group on average. I'm up for a challenge, so mostly will go with the flow
I can however see Mark's point.

I would not normally be battling with TT lap after lap, and would certainly not normally
qual in front of MJ, so mostly I give it a  :thumbup1:  :)

I believe that things will become even closer as we do more races, Legz'nTony are
well aware of the inconsistencies, and will sort it as well as anyone can.
If I had more praccy time, I would probably do better, as it is I just have
to see what happens. Overall I am really enjoying the series, and hats off
to the organisers.

That's cool, none of it feels like criticism this week, more like a discussion.  :angel:


I'm not fussed who's at the sharp end, as long as it's not the same drivers every week. Only Ayrton has been in the 'top seven' in both races & he's proving to be a very strong driver & taking the fastest car available to him. So my choices are:
a) I make the slowest group of cars even slower by comparison to the rest.
b) The very best drivers like Ayrton select cars that they're maybe not quite so fast in from that group (that would be a big ask, as they are doing nothing wrong  :)).

If I go with a) then everybody in that group suffers & people will need to start being demoted from it or they wont be able to keep up.
With b) I know that Paul for example, didn't pick the car he was fastest in at Laguna, but seeing some of the other fastest drivers still taking their fastest cars & disappearing, maybe tempted him that way this time  :-\.
Either way, if at the next race, the very best drivers still prove to be considerably faster then the rest of the group, I will solve that for race Four  >:D.


LOL, where were you when I signed up for this LOL ;)
Cheers Psuedo  :)


Spot on & yes the earlier I get times off the fastest guys for a range of cars, the sooner I can confirm the groupings. Paul has been an amazing help for me with this.


You're not kidding! Seems I've underestimated our new Italian friends! :shifty: :D


Thanks Bill. The same happened to Oily & Lazlow very late in qually I believe. Anybody else?


Really sad/shocked to hear that. In our group (we're in the same one), I'm trying to make it so we've got a choice of about seven cars. I didn't realise there were seven bad to drive cars in the whole of P&G! LOL  ;)


Cheers Matt, really happy you're enjoying it & 'getting' what the aim is (same for all the other massages of thanks/well done) & I agree that it's going to get better/closer as we adjust. 8)

One thing I've found is if I leave the server and rejoin it crashes as soon as it's finished loading the track.
If, however, I exit the server, return to the main menu, log in to the multiplayer menu again and then rejoin the server, it doesn't.

Don't know why that works, but it does. Might be worth a try if people are having that problem.

Sadly it turned out that i couldnt find anymore pace in the Z06 which must be down to my own lack of talent in the US cars (bearing in mind the pace some others found in it)  :-[ I had done most of my praccy here last week in the Shelby which was i why i was a tad miffed when it moved out of my car group  :-X especially as i felt comfortable getting the regular '37s target time with it.
Thats why i mentioned these PB times as being a little misleading as suddenly on race day there were a gaggle of driver pumping in 1:36 times, surely that meant in the clubmens tradition, those drivers had picked cars that were too quick ?

I did a fair bit of practise for this event but on race night couldnt find the pace i wanted...not a single lap in the 37's  :(

Dont get me wrong i still enjoyed the race and really like the great variety of cars on track that look and sound so great.  :thumbup1: But the top 6 should be made to drive the Healey next race to curb their sudden pace increase  ;D

But this always happens Mark - on race day most drivers find a bit more speed and the top times are quicker than the published ones. The times I posted were with 10 laps of fuel (indicated, in fact more than 10) and many of them with less than 10 laps driven. It was unfortunate about the SCCA being changed rather late, but the signs were there quite early - Manteos, a driver in your group, posted a time of 1.35.1 in it nearly a week before the race was run. Had we left it as it was, I'm certain that the results would have been even more extreme, with a bunch of group 2 drivers disappearing in the 350.

I understand your comments re the clubmens spirit, but I don't think drivers took a faster car necessarily. They just got the best from the one they chose. The balance of the cars was much closer this time (the elan was too quick last time) so there was no easy option. It is definitely preferable to give drivers a free choice within their group rather than putting pressure on to take a slower car within a group of ostensibly equal cars.

There was no official target time. But all drivers hitting 37's & 38's, were right where I expected them (that includes you & me buddy 8)).

It's important also for drivers to remember, that the 'clubmans system' works over a season. At certain races, individual drivers (or even a group) might struggle more with a track choice or their car options then someone else in the same drivers group... but it should even out over the season (I hope ;D)

Promotions to be announced imminently  ;D

As a result of their performances at Mosport & preceding races, the following promotions & relegation's will be reflected at the next race:

Congratulations to the Drivers who've earned Promotion:
Manteos to Group One Drivers
Pippomax to Group One Drivers
Tim Robey to Group Two Drivers
SamB to Group Two Drivers


Commiserations to the Drivers who've been Relegated: (you get a faster car next time :))
None this week (but a couple are now in my relegation watch).


Welcome to the New Drivers & their New Group:
Pepz to Group One Drivers
Psuedo to Group Two Drivers

Please do PM me if you think I've put you in the wrong group.

Been a bit slack with my after race posts and as I'm sure you've all been putting other engagements on hold in anticipation of one I thought I'd better write a quickie  ;D

Scrabbled about with car choices, thinking right up until the final hour that I'd be in an Alfa but eventually settling with my old friend the Vette, even if it was a little less grunty than the the favourite L88. Stuck it about 12th on the grid in qually but was hit by the curse of the flaky Simbin code which punted me out and straight to the back without passing go or collecting £200. Can't really complain as I've had a damn good run of reliability but I'm hoping that's the last I'll see of the gremlins still!

I think us backmarkers were in a neighbouring town on the grid we were so far back. We were also at one hell of an angle to boot! Was a little concerned letting the horses rip off the start would see the back end fall away but somehow my sidestepping of the clutch saw me get a good getaway,  albeit straight into the road block that was you other drivers with your little hairdryer engines  :laugh:

To cut a long story short, I was having to use every inch of the road to get anything out of the Z06 and at least three times dropped a wheel on the grass which was sort of the story of my race, just not enough talent to drive like that for lap after lap without cocking it up but it was great fun trying.

Great little tussle with Bob as he mentioned, really enjoyed that close quarter stuff even though you were quite a bit quicker. Also a cracking little battle, so nearly complete with a grandstand finish with Legz. Cheers both of you, some really good clean stuff.

Love the track, I want to give the Directors some abuse at some stage this season but they keep getting the job done so it'll have to wait. Honestly never had so much fun battling for 16th and the honour of precisely nowhere lol (that'll be £50 Legz...bank transfer fine.).

I cannot wait for Lime Rock.