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UKGPL Season 17 - Novices Trophy - Race 10 - 65 mod - Monza (GP 1955-71)

And so to Italy- the traditional home of incredibly expensive professional organised sports.  Clutch and Mike will contest the Novices Trophy in front of the fanatical tifosi in our season finale, Brabham to Lotus- who will be Bruce Lee, and who will be Chuck Norris?  Mountside may have slipped too far behind in the team championship though, partly because of the efforts of the renowned Clark-Hill elite transfer unit.

Please also use the thread to set out any changes you'd like to see for next season, especially with the schedule.  We're considering using only 6 or 7 original tracks next season- so if you'd prefer to stay with eight, this is your opportunity to object.  Put your chassis requests for next season in as well- Ferrari have struggled to retain drivers this time, and both they and Honda will look for new pilots in the next allocations.

Reserve drivers should not join until there are only 30 mins of qualifying left.  However, all drivers should not go on track until there is 30 minutes of qualifying left.  This helps all drivers join the server successfully.  Please restrict chat to pit messages.

Please use the updated 65 mod for this race.

The 65 mod V2 update is being used by UKGPL and the updated layout features are very welcome, with the ability to record best lap times at addon tracks and to have 65 specific tracks. The new collision boxes are also a great improvement.  Though the new slipstream code will need extensive testing, the preliminary race seemed to show that it would be a definite improvement in racing terms, without the controversy over its extent, as with the 66 mod.

Thanks to all involved with producing the update.  If the new slipsteam code works as well as it seems it might, perhaps it could help persuade the authors of the 66 mod to rework their code as well!

Please be in IGOR UKGPL chatroom by 8:55 p.m. UK 19:55 GMT
(You will need to set up a channel called #ukgpl if you haven't already done so)
IGOR and race passwords: see above (#post_event_password)

Server ukgpl5
IP address  TBC

Race date = 7-07-2009
Time = 21:00 (UK time) 20:00 (GMT)
Track = Monza (GP 1955-71)
Variant = 65F1
Damage Model = INT
Qually time = 30 minutes.
Race length = long (23 laps- not 21, as before the 65 patch)

Please make sure that you have enough race fuel to complete the distance!

(2) Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=206&theme=6)

Penalties are to be worried about after the race, with the exception of penalties for restarts.  The UKGPL rule is that you have to take a stop-and-go in the pits for each reset at the end of the lap, with the only exception being if your reset was caused by another driver.  The penalty for not taking a stop-and-go is thirty seconds.  

CHASSIS ALLOCATION  If I haven't included you but your chassis has been agreed it's not important, otherwise pm me.

Ferrari Norbert Roguk Fabio
Lotus Al Vos Mike Scott Vee8
BRM Billy Hezemans Hurtubise JamesRye
BT11 Graham Maestro Clutch Nhance Mark
Honda Bookie Tomd18
Cooper Asbjeurn* Ian* Steve B* Steve B2* Geoff* Bernie* Nicky*
BT7 Aulden Burt* Glyn

*drivers also assigned an Amateurs chassis

65 Mod

These were the 65 drivers
BT7 Bonnier, Baghetti, Hulme (Bonnier drove for Walker)
BT11 Brabham Gurney Gardner Anderson Siffert (Siffert drove for Walker, Gardner and Anderson were privateers)
Lotus Clark Spence Rodriguez Mitter Russo Solana (and Maggs Hailwood Attwood Amon and Ireland for Parnell)
Ferrari Surtees Bandini Rodriguez Vaccarella Bondurant Scarfiotti
Honda Ginther Bucknum
Cooper McLaren Rindt
BRM Hill Stewart

The 1965 season was the last to use the controversial 1500cc formula which had begun after 1960, to the initial advantage of Ferrari.  The 1965 cars are smaller than the 1967 cars and have less torque and hence more grip.  It was claimed that they 'cornered on rails', however this allowed the Grand Prix series to retain the use of circuits which were otherwise to prove extremely dangerous.

The 1965 cars are ideal for those new to GPL as they allow the tracks to be learnt in light reliable cars, however these are also full Formula One cars, and quite fast....  Graham Hill got pole in his P261 in 1965 with a time of 1'30.7.  Jim Clark won the race in a Lotus 33 with a fastest lap of 1'30.6

David Wright's 'Legends' site http://fp.gplegends.plus.com/ (http://fp.gplegends.plus.com/) has the download of the 2.0.1 version (under 'details') as well as being an exceptional guide to both 1965 and 1967, for those interested in Formula One history.  The 2.02 update is available here: http://www.jamesonline.net/ukgpl/1965mod_PATCH_v2.0.2_Setup.zip (http://www.jamesonline.net/ukgpl/1965mod_PATCH_v2.0.2_Setup.zip)

Don't feel ready for the Amateurs yet so would like to stick with the team Lotus in Novices. If, by some miracle, I did make big improvements during the season then happy to move to BRM, our other Clark-Hill chassis.

Ferrari is my choice.
And staying Novice of course!

Cheeky picture here (http://pics.jamesonline.net/images/chuckbaby.jpg).


If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

That's not an offer by the way. We're full.


I have been considering whether or not to move up to Amateurs, but if I did I would want the Lotus, and as I have only ever raced the Honda and the Lotus I want to expand my horizons and live a much fuller life of enrichment, so I will be staying in Novices in a slower chassis.

As of next season Clark-Hill will become a 2 chassis team so as not to use up all the Lotus seats in the division. We will become the Clark Lotus and the Hill BRM, so I intend to drive for the BRM contingent and whip those Clark-Hill Lotus boys into shape.

I would encourage anybody not in a team to either start one or join one as it makes you a much better person and your driving gets more betterer, so there.

I've only just started online racing so I'd like to try a full season in the novices. I'm another of those pesky Clark-Hill chaps so it's BRM or Lotus for me too please - don't mind which. BTW, regarding the tracks question, I'd prefer to do less of the original tracks.

I would love to join a team and become a better person!  Would also like to race the BT11 at Monza as a reserve if there is room.. Would also like to join the novice ranks next season (is there anyone here who better exemplifies the term novice) in whatever chassis is avaliable, preferrably the BT11 as that's what I've been practicing in. ;D

Thanks,
Mark

Wow , last race of the season already. Can't believe how quick the season has gone :o

Good luck to Clutch and Mike, hope you both have a clean race and may the fastest man win

Regarding tracks for next season, you guys know the best tracks more than me so I will be happy to go along with whatever you choose

I would like to stay with the BT11 for next season

Good luck to all for a good race on Tuesday :rockon:

 ::) I do like to stay  in a Cooper , Novices level.

 :D racing the  original Pappy tracks over and over is a bit boring , there are so many other great tracks out

and no question 60fps would be nice.

planet waves , so dont stand still , right ?

 ;)

I'm sure there will be room Mark, just wait until there are 30 minutes left on the clock before you join so all the full time Novices can connect first.

I'd like to stay in the Novices next year in my Trusty BT11 if thats Ok. (The only clause would be in the unlikely event i win the Novices Championship this Season, i may consider moving up to the Amateurs. Although i'd probably prefer staying in the Novices in a slower chassis if this occurred... but its a big if.. it'll be practically impossible at Monza)

As for tracks, i'm happy staying with 6 Papy tracks and us using 4 'other' tracks, though i'd personally like us to keep Spa (Great slip streaming battles - better than Monza), and also Rouen which has a great flow to it.

Of the others available, i've always been a fan of Solitude, though have never raced it much, but it'd be good throttling a 65 round there. Reims or Le Mans could also be good for slip streaming and easy to learn for new comers.

As long as we have a variety of tracks over the year then thats fine with me

As for the suggestion of using 60fps, i feel this could limit potential grid sizes, though i guess in a couple of years time, it'll be the norm.

Providing me and NHance are both in the Novices next year, Mountside Racing will return as a double act, so it'll be us against the rest of the grid.. ahem.. i mean  Clark Hill Racing Team..  ;)

I would like to do another season in novices please. I would probably choose a Honda but that will make Mountside no longer a one make team just when Clark Hill are going that way.
With regard to tracks don't drop Spa, Kyalami or Mosport please. Albi should be dug up & returned to pasture as far as I am concerned.

Norm H

We won't be splitting the team, we will be staying as one, just using two chassis.

If you wanted a Honda I don't think that would cause a problem, you would just have to wear different overalls to Clutch.

No firm decision on chassis yet but I'm fairly happy taking one of the lesser used ones - other than the BT7 & the Cooper as I'm slow enough as it is.
As far as tracks are concerned there are a few favourites I'd like to see - Silverstone (especially now F1 have given it up GPL should keep it alive), Monza & I wouldn't mind Monaco back on the schedule.

I would like to race Monaco too, but I don't think Novices online is going to work there.

The grid exploded several times this season on open tracks so I don't think the principality's Hoteliers would be very happy to see us outside their doors, and in some cases, driving through them.

Ok understand, thought Clark Hill were running 2 teams in different cars, but it remains all one team. That's it then, put me down for a Honda as first choice.

Norm H

I can't believe we are almost done with this season.  Thanks guys for a great time.  I'd like to leave the Honda and move to the Ferrari for the next session. 

As for tracks, I like the idea of 6 or so original tracks, (Nurburgring, Kyalami, Spa, Rouen, Watkins Glen, and Silverstone.  4 others TBD by management.

SHE won't be pleased  ;)

Well, SHE will not be pleased indeed, but seriously, thanks for driving for Hiki Waza, Bookie. :) I don't think there is an all Ferrari team out there, so perhaps you could start one. ;) More teams = more fun. Although I cherish my time back when Soggies ruled the world, I'm glad the days of their domination (by having every 2nd driver on their side) are over.  :P

Perhaps Norbert would join you in such a venture.

Hello,

Just got back from holiday, not done a single lap in GPL for a good few weeks, but looking forward to Monza tonight, I'll be at the back trying to stay out of the way :) Good luck to Mike and Clutch it's been a good clean season long fight.

I'd like a BRM next season if possible, failing that I'd like a Lotus, of course in the Novice series.

As for the tracks, I'll race on anything, I like some of the tracks, but if people are finding them boring I'll try something else. My vote for the ones that stay are Monza, Spa and Mexico.

 :)
BEST OF LUCK TO MIKE & CLUTCH !!!! 
 :)

Note that this will be a 23 lap race, rather than the 21 it was last year.  With the 65 patch a GP at Monza becomes 76 laps, the proper distance, rather than the less impressive 68 that seems enough for the 67 chaps.

Please be extra careful of the Curva Grande on L1, Monza is so much more fun when all drivers have got past the first lap and the race can settle down.

no changes for me next season: Ferrari & Novices

As it's storming here in real Monza tonight, I cannot held an after race party in my garden :-[

Enjoy the english style weather , hope you dont get too much water in the campari .

 ;D

 :) :D ;D

Best race.....ever.

Qualified on pole and then got a terrible start, down to P3. Picked off P2 (Hellier?) by the end of the lap and proceeded to hassle RUK65. Ran wide in his slipstream and spun before the lesbos, smashing into the wall and facing the wrong way. Took a terrible chance with a revvy donught to get back in a straight line having let a stream of cars go by.

Didn't take anyone out....phew! Slid off again and collided with the hedge at the end of the main straight...more cars whizz by :(. But this car was tough and I still had no damage  ;D At this point, I was ready to quit, but carried on and vowed to get a result (after all it was the last race).

From P12, I passed people everywhere (thanks to my strong engine). The slipstream meant that people often had a chance to re-pass me and I had some fun battles. Suddenly found myself in P3! and Maestro was in front of me.

We had a mother of a dice, lap after lap, wheel to wheel action, passing and re-passing just about everywhere. Sadly we had a coming together, which was a real shame because I rear ended Nicky in the last race and I was trying sooo hard to keep it clean. I just couldn't avoid contact and I was gutted for Maestro because it was anyones race that one. Anyway I've watched the replay and I think that it was just a racing incident. Into the last corner Maestro passed me on the inside but ran wide into my path and that was that. Anyway I guess we will see what the moderator thinks. Still cheers mate for the closest racing action that I have had to date.

WD CLUTCH......a worthy champ  :D

Should I stay for another season in Novices or go to Amateurs next time? I dont mind.

Jim

Monza - Great Track and with the 65 Patch & slipstream effect was bound to make for some close racing.

Checked last years lap times and knew before the race that the BT11 would struggle for pace as its more of a mid-field car (so i've been told). This was of particular concern as my Championship rival, Mike James, was in a Lotus and had blasted round another power circuit, Silverstone, with ease to put the Championship on a knife edge.

In qualifying the usual suspects filed into the first few rows. Mike managed to put in a decent lap to be along side my 5th place (If memory serves me?? - ain't seen the replay yet).

The first few laps of the race were a blurr. I saw Ickx coming flying past into the Lesmo's on Lap 1 - he could have them for all i cared.. i was just looking for Mike.
I wasn't sure where Mike was, but just tried to put in consistant laps, but made an error at Lesmo 1 by hitting the barrier which let a few people past. I saw Mike behind me on Priblude so knew i couldn't afford one more slip up.
The only thing i really remember from the race was my best GPL battle ever with Locano. For about 10 laps we battled, changing position once or twice a lap and constantly slip streaming each other. We were very close to each other but drove with respect. It was fantastic and i thank him for that.
At one point we were running 2nd and 3rd and catching Al Heller in the lead due to our lap times being quicker thanks to constant slip streaming. However, it all came to an end at Lesmo 2. Locano's car started warping badly and i couldn't work out where he was. I'm not sure if i hit him from behind or what as i haven't seen the replay, but we collided for which i am sorry (thought unsure who's fault it was). After continuing for another lap, i thought i'd better take a stop and go to be safe, even though i didn't reset. The constant slip streaming also hadn't done my engine any good i'm sure as i was really over revving it and was mindful of an engine blow out, as i'd had one in practice.
I came out in 4th (i think) and ended up battling with Maestro for what turned out to be a 3rd place finish ( i think).

Anyway, from what i'm told Mike had to disconnect or had an accident?? so apparently i've made it (Pending Moderators report (Ppppplease!!)  - Championship winner.  :angel:

Its been a great season with different winners, podiums and good close racing for the most part. At some circuits the top 10 have been within a second or less of each other in qualifying which proves that the Novices has been very competative rather than the previous season where one person was obviously quicker than the rest. There has also been Full Grids for the most part which has made for entertaining racing throughout the field.
In the latter part of the season there has been less First Corner incidents too so we must be improving.

Thanks to all those who wished me congratulations. Its appreciated (providing i've actually won). Part of the reason why i like GPL, and UKGPL is the attitude of those involved. Everyone conducts themselves in a fair, honest and Gentlemany (? Is that a word?) fashion. Its great to race amongst people who behave in a fair way on the track. Would you get that on the Playstation or XBox? I doubt it.

Thanks to Jack for his moderating this season - what a job he's had. Spa, Kyalami, Mosport.. i'm surprised the blokes got any sleep wading through that lot. Its much appreciated.

Next season, i'd actually like to stay in the Novices, not because i think i'd win (I don't), but because of the close racing and full grids. The main reason however, is that i would like to race in the same division as my Team Mate NHance so we can have another crack at the Constructors Championship with Mountside Racing. If granted permision, we would both like to Race in Honda's next season, creating a 2 man Honda Team. The Honda isn't regarded as a fast car, and with that tricky '6th' gear, i doubt i'd be dominating or having a strong season. If its deemed by the moderators mid season that i should move up, then i will, but i'm confident next seasons performances in a Honda will not be as strong as this season (not that i've really run away with it this year).

Thanks to all the staff at UKGPL. Keep on with the hard work - i love this club.

Cheers
Clutch.

(PS, next season, we've got to Keep Monza and Spa)

What a fantastic race for me - not because of my result (although I'm not complaining about 6th against the opposition tonight) - just for the sheer fun of the racing that went on. 23 laps just flew by...

Big congratulations to Clutch for taking the championship, and grats to team-mate Al H for his win, and grats to our team captain John R for his championship in the Am's and, finally, grats to our Clark-Hill team for the team championship. Our Gundy will be dishing out great big palfreys  ;)

Anyway onto the race. Quallied 11th - a tad below my PB but you guys were fast out there so no complaints. Good start and eventually worked up to 6th. Someone span in front and I couldn't avoid a hit (no fault Sh/R  :angel: ), race thing in my book. Anyway after that down to 8th (I think), then spent a large chunk of the race just behind an epic battle between Rog and Nicky. Much later, after Nicky had a wobbly, I found myself in 6th on the last lap. Cardiac arrest time when a car rejoined as I was negotiating Para on the last lap - no harm done and I just squeezed into 6th a nano-second in front of Nicky.
Hence a great race for the fun factor.

A brief Season synopsis;
Well two seasons are behind me now. The first season was a case of Mr Backmarker and a steep learning curve (not sure it was the greatest idea to race online after two weeks of GPL but it did put hairs on my chest  ;D ).
This season I'm really pleased with my progress. Some decent results and slowly getting there. I would like to thank a few people who have really helped me progress (is this an Oscar speech??) ; John R, Geoff H, Al Heller (my nemesis for next season  :yes: ), all my team-mates and my friend Bill (Billy Nobrakes) who keeps me on my toes. Glad he got the GPL bug too.

I'm not going to say thanks to the moderators as I'm one of them but I would say Dave and Mike have done a sterling job in making the 65's so good, a lot of work and time goes on behind the scenes I can tell you...

See you all next season - I hope I see you at the summer fun races too  :balloon:

I have to say that was a blast... while it lasted. Had some great action in qualifying/practice mixing it up with Vos.. In only my 2nd official UKGPL start I managed to put the car 12th on the grid and was determined to do a clean 1st lap. Came off the start fine, even managed to gain a couple positions and on lap 3 was rear-ended into oblivion going into parabolica. Hit shift-r and my screen started the flicker of death. My connection seemed sketchy on and off through practice, with the lap times sometimes showing up as little black boxes?? but I thought I'd make it through the race. Hopefully I'll get my connection issues resolved in time for next season, as I really have enjoyed the short time I've spent here. I'd like to say thanks to everyone here for making me feel welcome in my first few weeks - especially Geoff, Mike, Al, Jack, and last but certainly not least Billy Nobrakes.. After the debacle at Silverstone and now Monza, there's no where to go but up... right??  ;D

Mark

I'd also like to thank the moderators whom I think got the descision right in all cases this year. It must be a tough call for them in many cases.

Part of the enjoyment of motorsport is the 50/50 overtakes and the crashes, so we expect some contact but I like how everyone tries to keep it fair at UKGPL. I think everyone feels bad when they have a whoopsie  :o

Jim

Well, I took the title down to the wire which at the start of the season is more than I could have hoped for in my first full season, and by my own admission I am generally not the fastest guy out there.

I have enjoyed the season long points battle with Clutch (and a few others) even though we haven't been wheel to wheel all that much, briefly at Imola where I got warped off and a chase at Silverstone but along the way I have had some great battles with others. Chasing Nicky at Albi, catching Ryeman at Kyalami, catching Maestro at Mexico, holding off Nicky at Rouen all spring to mind.

It has been a fun season and one I have enjoyed clean battles in personally.

Last night I finally qualified 7th with 37.8, my PB being a 37.65 so I wasn't too disappointed despite seeing Ryeman's 36.9 (it's off to Amaterus for you my lad) and off the line I got a better start than Nicky in front of me but had nowhere to go really so I lifted all the way to CG and kept it clean, thanks to whoever was behind me for not having a punt at me through there. Through the Lesmos I got a screen freeze just as I exited lesmo 2 and that was a sign of things to come. I arrived at Para with 3 cars in front all battling and my frame rate dropped right down and froze again so I just hit the brakes and hoped for the best but I went off. I followed somebody through Lesmos and again it went choppy though a couple of times I did pull off overtakes into Lesmo 1 but it was risky stuff.

Down around 8th I was caught by a flying Ryeman and lifted slightly as he passed me on the run to Lesmo 1 and intended to use him to drag me back towards the front which worked for a couple of laps but when we caught Nicky and a struggling RogUK the approach to Parabolica again froze and I went off, almost taking Nicky with me I think. In all I went off 4 or 5 times at Parabolica, twice while battling for position and I was risking taking somebody off with me every time I did it so with the title gone and second in the table secured I just retired.

What's annoying is that I have never had an issue like that with GPL before and I was connected to the server sat right next to me so it must have been an issue with my PC. Usually on my first lap at Monza I get a stutter through Lesmo 2 and occasionally a small one on some laps but last night it was ridiculous. Having said that, I was never going to get the result I needed as there were much faster drivers out there than me, Clutch included and he is worthy of his championship.

Next season I have not decided where to race yet but I will probably switch chassis to the BRM, perhaps moving up into Amateurs as I have never raced Pro rules before and there is often a shortage of numbers up there and I hope between now and then we recruit some more new novices and keep 2 full grids though my preference would be 3 grids if we have sufficient regular drivers.

Now begins the job of chassis allocation for Season 18, and like giving your aunt with the moustache a christmas kiss, it's not something you look forward to and you're glad when it's over for another year.

Once again I typed a race report & it hasn't posted maybe I take so long it loses connection. Anyway thanks to all at UKGPL who make this all possible. My first full season & its been great. Thanks to Clutch who does all my computer stuff & keeps an eye on me.
The race - Clutch gave me his set up - it was mint. Had some good racing early on. Aplogies to Billy after the race. Mistaken identity I'm afraid it goes with my age!. Norbert has passed me in the championship so well done to him. All I had to do was stay close to him but 3 spins & 2 crashes put paid to that.

Season highlights - Rouen & Mosport for me were the best races I had all year. My team mate is (provisional champion. Glyn's race reports.

In the off season I will practice at Mountside's test facility - that's Mosport to you.

Next season it's Honda the car nobody as yet wants. But I/we may get access to the mighty Hiki Waza vast resources if we're a satelite team. I may get an audience with "Her". I see a windswept circuit "somewhere in the UK", a limo approaches with blacked out windows. A window comes down about an inch & a perfectly manicured hand passes me all Hiki Waza set ups for the seasons tracks. "She" disappears in a cloud of tyre smoke. In my dreams..........
Norm H

First the Monza race. Digging deep into my trusty book of excuses / reasons for a shabby performance – beware of track regrooving. Whilst my regroove got me through Parabolica 21 out of 22 laps I could not find a decent line through the Lesmos - back to the original Pappy tyre marks for me. Finally managed a qualifying lap in the 1.39’s. I got caught up in a couple of incidents in the first few laps where the cars in front had span. I took the cautious approach & the next time there was a yellow flag waving at Lesmo 1, I backed off,lost control & ended up facing in the wrong direction. Turning the car 180 degrees between the Armcos is extremely tight & to avoid disrupting other cars I took a Shift R. This should attract a S&G but I invoked the little known Billy Nobrakes rule – S&G can be overlooked if you are trundling round at the back of the grid. Stuck around for the rest of the race waiting for drop outs but they were few and far between.
Congratulations to Clutch, our new champion & Al Hellar for his maiden win.

A passing comment on Season 17. This was my first season & despite the dismal performances it was tremendous fun. Whilst there were some starting grid pile-ups that few us will be proud of it was great racing & the standards seem to have improved. Novices seems very popular, evidenced that our top drivers want to stay on rather than move up to the Amateurs. This is fine – people should race where they want to but I’ll just make one point. The Nov’s grid at Monza was almost full. Assuming we want to attract new drivers next season there may be a need to make room. See previous suggestion from Vos that would allow mid-term changes with drivers taking their points with them.

A quick thanks to the Mods & organisers for making this all possible. Thanks also to Vos & the Clark-Hill boys for trying to make me a better racer.

Finally, just to get my order in for next season. No question of anything other than the Novices. As the Ant Hill Mob (sorry - Clark Hill) are diversifying into the BRM I’m looking for a new carriage. I’m also organising a brand new team for Season 18 & we will probably all run the Brabham BT11. Full post to appear on the main forum in the next day or so. 

Pre-race I picked up some handy driving tips about Monza from the original GPL game manual (p.10): "Monza has a fork in the road just past the grandstands. Make sure you stay on the left side of the road here, since the right lane leads to a barricade." Hmm yes, thanks for that.. Reminds me of a classic old Buick my neighbours owned which had "Brake" written on the left pedal & "Gas" on the right :D.

So thanks to the manual I'd discovered that it was quicker to drive around the barriers rather than through them, but no matter what I tried I still couldn't get Monza quite right. Then the day before the race, after fumbling around with the only 3 bits of the setup I vaguely understand (tyre pressures, roll bars & gears) I stumbled onto a setup that really improved my times. No idea how ???

Did the best I could in quallie but I knew there was no way I'd beat James Rye's time so practised on race fuel for a bit. Not sure if I got a good start or Mr Rye got a stinker but actually changed the habit of a lifetime (ok 6 races) and managed to overtake someone off the grid. Didn't last long anyway as James breezed past me on the straight pretty easily & despite following in his slipstream I didn't have enough grunt to repass safely. Then a piece of good fortune for me when James spun on the approach to Lesmo 1 so I slotted in behind leader Rog. Me & Rog had had an epic 12 lap battle on the practice server the night before so I knew it was going to be hard but fair. Sure enough we started passing & repassing each other for a few laps but then I spoilt the fun by doing a bit of hedge trimming at Parabolica & Rog scooted off into the distance. Tried hard to catch up but without the slipstream it was hard going - then another stroke of luck when Rog's engine went pop & I found myself in the lead. Couldn't relax for a second as Prib was showing the guys behind gaining ground - must have been a battle royal as the names were changing every lap - but I think there must have been a few tangles & I managed to hang on until the end for my first novs win ;D. I wasn't the quickest out there, as the fastest lap table shows, but I was reasonably consistent & I got a bit of luck. Hey, I remembered to "stay on the left hand side of the road" 23 times - that's got to be worth a podium :D

Anyway in the spirit of Tim's Oscar speech, I'd also like to thank Dave & the Clark/Ant-Hill Mob for their welcome & invaluable advice. Especially Geoff, John R, Tim & the Black Knight Sir Bill of NoBrakeshire for all the late-night sparring sessions. Hearty congratulations to Clutch as a worthy champ - commiserations to Mike for a fighting second & roll on next season!     

Billy NoBrakes makes a good point about full grids and people moving on.

On reflection, it would be wrong for me to stay in Novices as (provisional) Champion, even in a Honda, if it meant new people were being denied a place.

After a chat with my Mountside Racing colleague, i'm happy to move to the Amateurs and see how it goes. As long as we have full, popular grids i'm happy.

I consider myself of the same pace as a few other drivers in the Novices, so we'll have to wait and see how it all pans out next season for registration. As long as we have 2 full Championships, then its all good, and i'm happy to move to the Amateurs regardless, (In a faster chassis though  ;)  )

Cheers

 :jumpjoy:

WOW what a race!!!

Qually 8th, and looking at the times we were all very close 2nd to 10th covered by less than a second.

L3 to 5 close racing with Me, Nicky, Clutch and Fabio with us changing places
L8 to 13  Clutch and Fabio are dicing for 2nd and 3rd and I am watching behind them in 4th waiting for a coming together, but they didn't. Well done lads
End of L13 I came off at Parabolica, but I hang onto 4th.
L13 to 16, I start catching Clutch and Fabio and I can see James R catching me
End of L16 I slipstreamed Billy into Parabolica, up the inside, and Billy goes off. Don't think we touched, but apologies If I caused anything there
L18 Fabio is off the track and I'm now 3rd
L19 3 way battle with Clutch James and me
Something happens with Clutch and James and Clutch goes for a SnG
L19 to L22 James and I dice with each other, overtaking each other 2-3 time search lap.
L22 Disaster coming into parabolica, Overtake James with the slipstream, up the inside but drift to middle of circuit and James has nowhere to go and I get a gentle tap. Shame the physics made it seem like he hit me at over 100mph. and off into gravel Again :-[
L23 Still 3rd. But Clutch gets past, I loose it AGAIN at parabolica and Rog does me as well

3rd to 5th on last lap is not good. But a very enjoyable scrap all the way through

Thanks to Admin and server people for all organisation during season. You've done a great job

Looking forward it next one

Cheers

Peter

Well, I made it too but no matter . ;)


Well, I think the champ should always strongly consider moving up, and it has been suggested (even in jest) the top 3, and I am going to take the plunge as I feel it is better to have spaces on the novice grid than a full grid with no room for new recruits.

Also, how much further can we take it other than racing under Pro rules? The prospect of perhaps never winning another race is not encouraging but imagine the feeling of glee when passing Steve Bucket and Phil Thornton as they try to extract their cars from the hedgerows and roll downhill to the finish before you blast past (providing you were behind them in the first place). :)

It would be good to do battle with you again, as well as a few of my team mates too, and moving up would mean 4 Clark-Hill drivers in each division rather than 5 in Novices which is bordering on a cartel.

My only decision is my choice of chassis, BRM or Lotus again, and for that matter yours too.

You need to specify a preference.

Fair comments Mike, Amateurs it is.

You started racing online about the same time as me last season if i remember, so lets move up and see what happens.

As for the car, its gonna have to be a fast one if i'm allowed. I may stick with the BT11 to avoid having to work on a set up for some circuits, but should go for power to try and compete so may go for a Ferrari, with second choice being a Lotus.

We'll see when the Registration thread comes out before next season

Well, you could do worse than renaming a setup file.

When experimenting with BRM setups I took my Lotus ones from this season and renamed the files from setup.lo1 to setup.br1 and they worked. Obviously going from the 5 speed Lotus to the 6 speed BRM the gearings were wrong but if you are going from a BT11 to another 5 speed chassis then that shouldn't be a problem other than slight alterations allowing for different engine strengths and torque ranges etc.

 :) :) :)
First  big hand to Clutch on his well deserved win of Novices Championship !!! WD.
And congratulations  to Mike for an fantastic second in that .

Of course big hand to Al for his brilliant drive here at Monza , very nice one !!


Special thanks goes to Mike , who serves me an fantastic tow due qualifying , rocket up my Cooper into the 37 zone . woooow. ::) ::)

----------

Well as to my race  :
Start was ok , then I did have some thrilling laps together with Maestro.
But at L6 I watched my mirror part of second too intensive  , check  what Clutch is on in my neck. Hit the Armco then on own mistake  .Sorry Vosblod wasn’t any change for you to avoid my spinning Cooper.
Well L6 to L12 was lonely and slow , without any slipstream effect around .
 At L12 Rye and Rog65 catch me up and I followed them in their tow…. Rye slipstreamed Rog65 out at the arrive to Para , unfortunately Rog65 brakes hard and early then .Only way to avoid any chrash to me was braking hard as I could , same Mike did behind me . He went right off and I left off track…
Due to luck my car was still working…. Well last half of the race I tried several times to stay in the Ferrari`s tow . ; dreaming of help each other and catch up some driver in front by this .
But  turned out more practise is  needed for that .
Anyroads  , it was still fun to me , very relaxing race anyway to me as me 3rd overall was secured  at Silverstone.

 :(
Only thing  really droves me up the wall this time : those drivers tried to overtake me to the right sight on both long straights. ?????????? hey what , Curva Grande as well Para are righthander turns aren’t they ? so there is NO way to overtake an slow car on his `defending line `, which of course is the right side of the track , well.
Next time I will simply close the door and sent  those cars into orbit .lol   :D

-------------

 :( As to next season  : still Pro races don’t fit to me due to  the fact I have to go to work quit early the next day.  As the race starts at 10pm my time here  , end off a whole race would be to late for me.
As Mike and Clutch decided to step up to amateurs  , ( btw. I am sure you both will do well there , wish best of luck )  ,  two fast drivers less here at Novices , so unsure if it would still be acceptable  , if I stay.
 ??? ???
-----------

I like to thank the admins for making this season so good working  and enjoyable.
As well I like to thank all the drivers for nice and fair racing  . To me it was an fantastic season full of joy.
I am still looking forward to next season to come .

Regards
Nicky Ickx
 :) ;) :D ;D

A crappy race on my part. Qualified in the middle of the field, and managed not to lose too many places on the first lap. Followed a Lotus for several laps, but did not have enough power to get past it. The slipstream could only help me up on the side of the Lotus, but once I got there, the Lotus powered back into the lead. I got more and more desperate, and ended up breaking too late and so rear-ending it into the sand trap at Parabolica. A lap later I spun at Lesmo 1, and had to wait for the backmarkers to pass before I could continue. Managed to take back a few places, but towards the end of the race I spun again at Lesmos, got dead last again, and logged off. :(

As for next season, I have the same issue with the pro length races as Nicky Ickx do. They start too late, so it gets past midnight before I get to bed, wich makes it difficult to get up in the morning after. I have not decided whether or not I will continue with the Coop in a new Novices' season, though. I felt that it went a bit better at Silverstone than the previous races, so I am perhaps starting getting to grips with the car. On fast tracks like Monza, though, it is more of a handfull than on the more technical tracks, where sheer power is not that important.

I'll use the summer to decide on championship and car.

Likewise Aspjeurn (did I speel it rite ) totally frustrated with the cooper (as ive said previously) and the other race series are far too long for an old git like me (hence the reason i was in novices ) I still maintain ther should be a handicap for the faster boys plus it's unfare to be handicapped with the same slow chassis all season .
As Asp says the biggest problem I found was having to push the coop so hard that was forced to take too many stupid risks in a foolish attempt to get on the same lap as the leaders . as for the coopers slipstream effect ,forget it ! no good unless you can see down the car in fronts pipes .
Have to see what s18 brings before  decide where to go next .

Grats to Clutch and Mike but a special award goes to Nicky whose drive to 3rd spot in the Coop was fantastic , think we would have seen a different name up top if he had a chassis choice .  no disrespect to Clutch or Mike,  I know how tough it is to stay up there but I do think your task was made easier with having the best cars
For myself this has to be the worst season I ever did in UKGPL  , not sure about the future,  perhaps the time has arrived to hang my UKGPL hat up  :-\

PS I can already here the flack coming in  :)

" Man who stands waiting for a sign in rain, only get cold and wet. But, he who go and seek the true path, will find shelter and guidance in Her shadow"  
(ancient Waza proverb)  

Those who swear allegiance and wear the fundoshi and headband with pride are blessed by her guiding palm.
The foolish round eyes who drive the green things scoffed, when it was foretold that the Wazas would return this season and sweep all before them  But, they have seen their laughter turn to dust, as her mighty team crushed their puny resistance like rice paper in a closed fist wherever they dared to challenge us.

The Novices were fortunate indeed that this season, there were no apprentice ninjas ready to take this title for her glory, but next season a tsunami of new Wazas will take this title too. Scoff if you dare!!! you have been warned.

All our victories are belong to her

Try copy and paste to notepad , so's if it crashes you can slap yer copy back in there .


Simples  ;)

CHR will put Wazas to the test 8)

All our victories are belong to Him:
(http://clarkhillracing.freeforums.org/download/file.php?id=98)

Well, a Lotus did await you in Ams bernie. ;)


Nicky has had a great season in the Coop and came close to winning Rouen with it, but he has scored so highly for consistently finishing well rather than for winning races, and there is no argument from me that in any given chassis Nicky would be a faster driver than me, as are several others, but the handicap system used in 65s has allowed for some great battles all through the field.

Nicky has shown what the Coop can do where others have struggled with it. In theory chassis allocation improves every season so hopefully you will have a better season next time round.  I can't see a future where we introduce something like pitstops to 65 Novices though. The day we do is the day I leave 65s.


Well, hitting me twice at Spa didn't get you off to a great start,   ;D but making such a rash decision so soon after the season would be a mistake.

Chill out Bernie, relax for a while, go on holiday to Hindley Green and forget about things until Season 18 when all this disappointment will seem a million miles away.


That will be the migrating birds leaving Haigh Hall.

Mike for the umpteenth time the AMS races are too long for an old codger 

I could go on to explain why but basically I cant race for too long without becoming seriously fatigued so I dont enjoy the races , some times i feel more like racing and some tracks are better for me than others . when you start to draw yer pension you will perhaps understand.

And its nice of you to keep reminding me of Spa I thought you might have gotten over it by now , your not the only one I clouted but then again if i wasnt in a slug perhaps I wouldnt have had to drive so desperatley.

Its not a rash decision , I think I have previously registered my contempt for the lack of a proper handicap in 65's

No it doesnt need pit stops to even out the system . previously we had a system where the guys leading the championship points table were limited to there choice of chassis .
So you would have been running a coop or BT7 for the final races along with Clutch and Nicky   

Bernie,

Would be a genuine shame to lose an experienced driver through dissatisfaction.

Above all else races should be enjoyable. Even with Mike & Clutch moving up to the Ams there should be healthy competition at the front of the Novs grid. I can't see anyone having an objection if you trade up to a quicker chassis for Season 18.

I agree to some extent re your comments about Nicky and his potential performance in a different chassis, but that's why he should really be driving in the Amateurs not the Novices. I sympathise with his reasons (and yours) for not wanting to but the alternative is for you experienced guys to get the slower cars.
It goes against the grain of encouraging chassis based teams if we chop and change race by race. If someone demonstrates themselves to be a class apart (in whatever chassis), then they are a class apart and should maybe think about moving up to the senior league mid-season.

We don't want to lose anyone, let alone someone of your longstanding, but the point of the Amateurs is to create more of a challenge hence Pro and longer races, so it comes down to a straight choice between the two. I really hope we can get enough new drivers to justify running a third division which, I imagine, would provide a middle ground between the two. Maybe we should all put our recruitment hats on over the summer  ;)

As Tim says, hopefully we will have enough drivers to run 3 classes though it is unlikely.


Haha! I have Bernie, long ago in fact, it didn't affect my result and I was saying it in jest. That doesn't always come over well in text form on a forum though. I'm actually more upset at you for being a Pie Eater but then most of us Lobby Gobblers are. LOL[/more stuff said in jest]

Bernie
Hang around and just enjoy your racing
For a guy that is experienced and fast enough to win Clubmans in Season 15 and 16, enjoy the challenge of racing with newbies with a dog of a chassis. If Nicky can get it to third this season, you could get it higher

if you are getting that little slipstream effect then i can only think that you haven't applied the 65 v2 patch correctly (like some others in this league ...) or you haven't geared up the cooper for slipstreaming .


well it wasn't your worst season (look at your stats page) however with a full field of drivers you can't always win or even come in the top half ?

I drove the cooper last season and it's a lovely little car with the added help of having six gears , maybe you just had a poor setup ? who knows what car you get next season but i guess that depends on who your driving against .

there is more to racing than winning , try and do well and enjoy your driving .


hope you don't think this is flack .

john

Really sorry to hear you feel so disillusioned Bernie.
Your sense of humour and banter is always a joy and I can only echo John's comments about the Cooper setup. I was "blessed" with the Cooper in our first 65 season and eventually found what makes it tick ( and it wasn't death watch beetle!!).

If you decide to race next season,  I hope that you do after the statutory 14 day cooling off period, and you get lumbered with the Cooper you are welcome to my setups for what they are worth. Or, maybe I can tempt you with an offer from the white side and invite you to meet her?  ;). That way you get Ninja training and free Saki ::) ;D ;D ;D

well i have now taken a look at the monza server replay and i would say from looking at it and your first few laps in the race that you have not installed the patch correctly , so it's no surprise they all get away from you .

if you need help doing that just ask (or read the readme when installing it) . 

john

Not to stir up things too much, but there are really drivers on Amateurs level participating in the Novices atm... You all know who they are and to make things worse, they don't even have the slowest cars to give a chance to slower drivers. I'd be glad to see them in Amateurs next season and I'm sure many Novices regulars would be glad to have them transferred as well. In that sense, Bernie's frustration is completely justified. You don't see him often react like that, so it must be for a very good reason.

At least 2 are moving up and those that don't (for whatever reason) will have the slower chassis next season.

I don't think anybody was clearly head and shoulders above the rest though as we all seemed to have bad circuits too. I won Silverstone at a canter but was a lap down at Watkins and couldn't catch Bernie when I retired and a lap down at Mosport at the finish.

Ryeman had discos when starting from great poles but was in the pack at other circuits.

As always though, there will be people changing chassis or division, sometimes they just need a little nudge. ;)

consider me nudged. Hopefully I'll be staying for the hoe downs and not the discos next time.

Ryeman

Haha! Another one bites the dust. The back of the Amateurs grid is slowly filling up LOL. ;)

Chassis preference the BRM?

The back of the Novices grid is filling in nicely as well ;)

Wow, what a race!
It's was really an exciting battle with Clutch but, unfortunately, it ended in a bad way... :(
I really don't know who made a mistake, but it really doesn't matter.

It's was a great season too: I hope to be more consistent on the next one.

Grats to the Novice Champion, to everybody race and to all UKGPL staff.

Long Live GPL!!

Yes, Burnie. You got it relatively ryet. ;) Otherwise, you described just the feeling I had with the Coop.

As for slipstream and the Coop, I felt at Monza at least that I got a nice tow, and my laptimes improved noticeably when I had another car to follow. I guess it was all a matter of bad timing that I wasn't able to pass other cars. I had no problem getting alongside faster cars, but usually the next turn was too far away, so that the other car had time to power past me again before I could take advantage of the better track position. Anyway, on the next straight noone would have a problem getting past me again, so what would be the point of getting past anyway? On a more technical track (Kyalami, Glen) it would be easier to take advantage of a pass, since I then could get away on the technical parts of the track.

Cheers guys for the comments , been away for a short break , will look at what S18 has to offer and go from there .

 :D :D nice to hear ya staying here for S18 Bernie !!!!!!!

( btw. I forgott to mentioned that of course I will share my Cooper setups with everybody wants to .Those are nothing special , mostly based on PJ setups ).

Server replay time: 0h37m07s

James Rye turns in on Meastro rear-ending him.
James can clearly see Peter is there so should have taken avoiding action.

•JamesRye (james rye) — penalty — Blatant Rear End Shunt — 2 places lost (plus 2 for penalty points)

I think that I prefer Maestros version of events  :)

L22 Disaster coming into parabolica, Overtake James with the slipstream, up the inside but drift to middle of circuit and James has nowhere to go and I get a gentle tap. Shame the physics made it seem like he hit me at over 100mph. and off into gravel Again


Ryeman

You should know by now Jack'O comes from a long line of hanging judges   :D :D :D

Dont think I ever saw so many PP's awarded for a season , as for me is 16 a record ? Its certainly a PB and flying the flag for the Soggies in the naughty boy dept.

Grats again to Clutch now ehat its all official like  :) :) :)

I think Peter is being a gentleman but that doesn't change what happened.  There was obviously no malitious intent but there are a couple of lessons to learn here (which is one of the main reasons for moderating races). 

Peter was clearly visible in your mirrors round Ascari and he dissapeared from view which means he must have been along side.  Since we can't look over our shoulders in GPL we have to develop a "sixth sense" that enables us to know where other cars are without seeing them.  The opportunity to defend the inside line had now gone, moving over at this stage would be blocking or risking side-by-side contact.

As the overtaking car, Peter can see you and so he knows exactly where you are.  He makes a clean pass and wins the corner.  One slight criticism is that it was a bit of a block pass but if we penalized that nobody would ever get past anyone (not in World Superbikes anyway).

Having lost sight of Peter you have to assume he is along side.  If under braking he reappears in your mirrors, you can assume you have outbraked him and you are then entitled to take your normal line.  However in this case he has clearly won the corner and you have to be prepared to yeild.  As the following car you are now responsible for ensuring there is no rear end contact.  You should have been prepared to take a wide line to avoid contact.

I appreciate a penalty may seem harsh but it is the only mechanism we have to highlight incidents and to try to learn from them so we can make on-line racing more fun for everyone.

Peter's interpretation of the event is very sporting but we wouldn't want to foster a culture where it was OK to knock people off the track provided we said sorry afterwards.  Having said that we do class lots of incidents as "racing incidents" or "warp incidents" so we don't try to apportion blame in every case.  However it is important to award penalties when there is a point to debate. 

Peter is right about the physics (or warp as it may be in this case) though.  But even on this point it is the responsibility of the following driver to maintain a sufficient gap to avoid the risk of warp contact.

Not my handiwork this time Bernie old chum, I have had a PC fail on me, so I asked for help from our newest moderators, as trained by Phil to join the 'long line'.  I can't comment, as I haven't been able to watch the replay yet and I would have to rely on reports alone.

While there have been many penalty points awarded this season, Novices has been the only division where the entire race has been fully moderated, the others have been report-only.  Also Novices has been full grids with resets allowed, while the other divisions have tended to thin out quickly, so Novices has suffered more from the closer racing due to slipstreaming.

Though your own penalties may be put down to trying too hard in an uncompetitive chassis- we'll sort you out with a a faster car for next season -if we move to report-only for the Novices it could mean that drivers who need advice won't get it.  Some of the rejoins this season were not appropriate for league racing, at any level.  Understandably drivers are more reluctant to point out the failings of their comrades than moderators.

Any comments on the report-only issue are welcome, if there is a new influx and particularly if we move to three divisions the Novices will remain fully moderated, otherwise we might allow it to be report-only. 

I'm afraid I'm the hanging judge Bernie.
As Jack O' says the novices gets the nits picked out of it to assist new drivers but it does mean 'apology and handshake' incidents pick up penalties.
Personally I favor reported incidents only but I understand why the Nov's is a special case...

I would say the Novice division should remain fully moderated with penalties
You learn quickest when you have been slapped. Being told you were a naughty boy just doesn't have the same effect.
As Novices we need this proper guidance from the seniors so we race better and cleaner

Thanks again to the moderators for the excellent job you do.

I would also say that the Novice devision should remain fully moderated with penalties. Its hard to be objective when you are involved in an incident (I came up with a barmy reason for why I had contact with Nicky at Silverstone).

Personally, I'd put this one down to a racing incident (but then I would) however, I respect the judges descision and thanks to Phil Thornton for a well reasoned judgement.

Certainly moderating is surely a difficult task, just look at some of the crazy Penalties issued in the world of real F1. The most unjust of penalties was surely disqualifying Hamilton from the win at Spa or possibly banning Renault from Valencia.

Ryeman

I would like to add that I do fully appreciate the job the mods do though I cant help thinking a lot of the penalties that have been awarded have seemed (to my eyes)  to be a bit harsh and uneccasary , after all we want to be able to race , thats why we are here , mistakes will and are made in the learning process 

In a lot of cases I think a verbal warning would have been better applied rather than being penalised for "trying to hard "

In the real world of 60's racing there was mutual respect among drivers due to the potentialy fatal consequences of making contact , those thoughts are always in my head , I have personally witnessed tradgedy on the race track on far too many occasions and for myself I try to drive accordingly , though it isn't always clear because when close racing we are never sure how the other guy is going to react , for that reason I like to follow a slower car for a while to kind of sum up the situation and seek out a passing oppertunity , unfortunatetly this season I seem to have allowed myself to become annoyed with myself and at times become frustrated with my performance which has led to me trying to do some wonderful things with the Cooper which turned out to be beyond the understanding of the design perammeters of both GPL and the Cooper Car Company . 

 ::)