SimRacing.org.uk

Season 18 - Amateurs Trophy

Please check the Season 18 pages for details (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=220&theme=6) regarding rules and the Amateurs Trophy (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=222&theme=6) pages in particular.

The races will be run as follows:

Car set: 65 F1 only
Date: Every second Tuesday from 8th September 2009
Time: 9:00pm London UK Time (30 mins practice, race starts at 9:30pm)
Race Length: 50% Grand Prix
Damage Model:  PRO
Server: 5.UKGPL
Race List: IGOR

Provisional Calendar as follows:

Date	Day	Time	Track
08/09/2009	Tuesday	9:00pm	Watkins Glen
22/09/2009	Tuesday	9:00pm	Solitude
06/10/2009	Tuesday	9:00pm	Kyalami
20/10/2009	Tuesday	9:00pm	Oulton Park
03/11/2009	Tuesday	9:00pm	Spa
17/11/2009	Tuesday	9:00pm	Clermont Ferrand
01/12/2009	Tuesday	9:00pm	Zandvoort
15/12/2009	Tuesday	9:00pm	Adelaide
12/01/2010	Tuesday	9:00pm	Silverstone
26/01/2010	Tuesday	9:00pm	Monza

The provisional calendar may be changed at the discretion of the Divisional Moderator.

If you would like to enter this series please submit an entry in the poll.  

After winning the 65 Novices Championship, its now time to get my arse kicked in the Amateurs.

I'll stick with my Trusty BT11 if thats Ok.

The Calender looks great, though i'm not a big Adelaide fan. However there looks to be a good mix of tracks and though my fave Rouen has now been dropped its nice to see Spa & Monza remain. Also Great to see Solitude on there. Its in my Top 10 GPL Tracks, even though i'm not too good round there.

Also, regarding Solitude. The Downloaded track itself doesn't look the best graphically, however, the SMRZ button on the GPL Track Database links you to a quick graphical update that makes the track look loads better (If memory serves). Its an absolute Must. I wasn't a big fan of the track until i added it. It makes the track surface look a lot better than the original. Make sure that this is pointed out during the race thread when this one comes up please.  ;)

Cheers

Thanks for that Clutch, I'll go hunting for that. Solitude's very fun in these cars. :)

Graphical Update for Solitude here.

http://srmz.net/sub/GTV/

If i've not posted the link correctly, just Google 'gtv GPL Track Updates'

Another sign in. Last season, with the exception of Rouen, was nothing short of a disaster. Looking to make amends in S18  ;D.

looking forward to racing in the amateurs! would like to stick with the BRM if possible.

Jim

Don't we all!? You're too fast for BRM.  ;D

Seriously, I hope this season the chassis are assigned more evenly this season. There were people with quite an advantage last season and it wasn't fun, especially at faster tracks.

I'm in.

Lotus or BRM.

Lotus or BRM please.

thanks for the praise Hristo, I will drive anything. Even the Honda if needs be  ;)

Jim

Hm, I'm not quite sure what to do here. Long races ending late at night isn't too tempting. Driving my beloved Ferrari (which I believe I would be allocated to if I were to join the Amateurs series) sure is tempting, though. The shorter races in Novices suits me better, but driving the Cooper again doesn't tempt me at all. I've tested a few other of the slower chassis this evening. Brabham BT11 was faster, but the sound of it was terribly dull compared to the Coop and the Ferrari.

The BT7 was about as fast slow as the Coop, but the sound was pretty fun when I think about it. It sounded like a grinder, which in fact would be an advantage. If I turn the sound up, the neighbours would believe I was refurbishing our apartment: "That Tverberg fellow is really working hard with the refurbishing. I hear him working every evening 'till late at night!"  :angel-wings:

Well AT, the later finishes don't really suit me either but I'm working on the principle that I won't finish them all LOL.

SHE will be pleased!  ;D

Jethro learned to hate the BT7 sound creeping in around and deafening his BRM every time, lol.  :D It's perhaps the only advantage of the little beetle.  ::)

*wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww*

(My attempt on impersonating the sound of a BT7 humming in your ears)

more like a wasp in a jam jar :P

john

It was actually the Cooper I hated hearing whilst I had the BRM, but since that and the BT7 have the same 16 valve 1.5 litre V8 engine, they're both as whiney as each other. Very distracting to hear either car behind you and know there's somebody much faster than you waiting for an opportunity to get by.

If you're not having me behind you, that is. Then you've probably passed me, and I will disappear in the distance behind you.

I've voted <75% to get on track when I get chance.  I don't expect it will be very often in this one, but see how it goes.  Anything but the lotus and BT11 for chassis please.  Been there done that for now.

OK, I'll have a go at the Amateurs this season, as long as I can drive my beloved Ferrari. Like you, Steve, I voted < 75 % attendance, as I don't know if I'll be able to meet up at every race. It should be easier in the autumn, though, since this season doesn't have all those holidays as spring does here in Norway.

Im in
Didnt decided wich car .
Maybe Fez os BRM

A question about car choice: are we going to be assigned chassis by the moderator and stick to those chassis for the rest of the season or is there some freedom involved?

They will be assigned by the mods for the season.

The only changes will be if somebody is either winning races easily or somebody is clearly not able to make the pace (myself excluded) ;)

Allocations are being held up slightly by about a dozen drivers from last season who have not yet registered but I have contacted them and asked them to register ASAP.

With or without them we will be done early this week so people changing from last season can practise with their new chariots.

OK, thanks, because I'm seeing lots of people saying what car they want to drive and wasn't sure what's going on.

Is it possible to reserve Geoff a place while he moves house? I'm sure he will be along just as soon as he has his internet up again.

Registration stays open all season although he may end up being put in as a reserve if we get 19. Can't see anyone missing out on a drive

As I have just realised that this series starts in one weeks time!!!! Has any decision been made about chassis allocation ??  or can we start applying wax to my Waza's??? ::)

OK then chaps, I have drawn up some chassis allocations (along with other mods) for the two 65 divisions. So far we have 14 drivers registered for Full Time Amateurs and 3 registered for Part Time places.

Where possible I have tried to accomodate your requested chassis but if for any reason you are not happy with your chosen chariot, address your concerns here, in a PM to myself or of course to Phil if need be.

Phil Thornton- Ferrari
Hristo- BT7
Evil Clive- Honda
Ken Murray- BT11
John Roberts- BT11
Samb- BRM
FullMetal- Honda
MikeBeattie- Cooper
TurkeyMachine- BT11
FPolicardi- BT11
JamesRye- BRM
Miner2049er- Lotus
Clutch- BT11
Podkreceny- Lotus
Steve B_1_rd- Ferrari
Natan- choice between the Honda or the BRM again

I want the Cooper.

You have no idea of the effort BT7 requires and therefore impact on health in the long run over a season, just to be able to barely keep up the pace, especially on faster tracks. It's not that I can't do it, I just refuse to do it anymore. The way it is any chance of having fun is turned into plain masochism.  ::)

Considering the number of divisions (and leagues) I'm constantly handicapped in, it's a lot more than I'm willing to sacrifice for. In fact, sacrifices for me ended with last season. You can only do it for so long.

Of course I could slow down and settle for, say, 4th, but is that the target of handicapping? As a middle ground I would accept to drive the BT7 on slower tracks, if that suits you.

-=Hristo=-

I can see your point, having to drive the slowest car, but the fact is that you are the fastest driver (IMO) so in an allocated division it makes sense for that to be the case.

If I were to allocate you the Cooper, I would also have to reallocate other drivers such as Mike who also has the Cooper, and the knock on effect is that people in the BT11 would then perhaps want to jump to a faster chassis too, until we get to the point where people in the Lotus (like me) have no faster chassis to go to. I can't see me being competitive with your times even in the BT7 let alone the Cooper, but then I don't expect to be winning in Amateurs anyway. The goal for me is to limit the number of times I get lapped and to try and beat my team mates.

I see your point of taking the Cooper at faster tracks but I don't think it is fair to change the division rules for just one driver, that way I could have 17 upset drivers as oppose to just one.

Looking at last season you still managed to win 3 races and would have won 4 (more than anybody else) but for the place penalties you received at Albi, and the championship was decided at the final race which suggests to me that we had an evenly balanced allocation (for the most part). Promoting you up a chassis would not I think be fair to the rest of the division.

This season's calendar has a couple of tracks that would hamper the BT7, Solitude (which also has a twisty section as you know), Kyalami where you qualified 2nd, Spa and Monza, but with the 2 worst results dropped that evens it out a little bit.

I would hate to lose you from the division as I guess would a few others but to change the rules for one driver does not seem fair either.

I welcome feedback from yourself and others.

Disappointed not to get the BRM, but given the practice for races I'd probably be the fastest in that car anyway. So the BT11's a fair car. I just hope I finish more races.

Hristo, you say it impacts on health driving the BT7, but you managed it for the entire stint of S17. If you add in this season, you'll probably learn to like the car and improve even more in it anyway. I know I would for other cars I've driven.

*ahem* Haven't you forgotten one driver?  ::)

My point is, if someone's fast they shouldn't have their chance of winning taken away completely if they refuse to exert a lot more effort than usual to compensate. Handicapping is all good, but it goes backwards at this extreme.

I can tell for sure I've seen drivers driving a lot more casually but happily finishing up the order because of the car. Is the fastest driver meant to have less chances of winning than the slower driver? What's the motivation for the slower driver to improve if they have it easy? What's the motivation for the faster driver to have improved through the years to be able to win just to have this taken away from him/her? You know well I like close battles instead of running away with a race, but when your chances are severely reduced it's all irrelevant, because after all, the idea of entering a race is to try and win it.

Of course, we can wait and see how it goes, but I can tell you for sure that if I drive normally without sucking out all my energy in a race like last season that I will win a lot less races. This is called going over your limits and is hardly the way to go if you want to keep a good health (physically and mentally) over time. Well, for me this point has been reached in the middle of last season and I'm not so masochistic as to ignore that. Interpret it in whatever way you want...

Jethro, I've been put mostly in BT7 almost anywhere (leagues) I have driven through the years, so it's hardly about experience with the car or learning it. I'm quite comfortable with the car, it's a great car, handling wise. Last season, on most tracks, I was constantly beyond the limits of the car just to have it mixed up with the leaders. I'm sorry, but somehow I don't see someone in a faster car forced to do the same because they simply rely on a stronger engine to compensate.

IMO you're trying to regulate the handicap way too much. There are no distinct groups in your system, but you look at it driver by driver. So if a driver is, say, about a tenth or 2 tenths a lap slower than another, you give him a slightly faster car instead of simply letting him see the impact of him being slightly slower and giving him motivation to find those extra tenths naturally, with practice. And that of course magnifies significantly at a track where engine matters more.

Anyway, I guess I made my point clear and perhaps it's too late for changes now, but I'm sure my point will be proven during the season. I won't quit the division, I like the 65 races, but I won't destroy myself just to compensate for severe handicap either. Mind that a lot of the people during last season have improved substantially, so I expect them to be even harder to catch this season. My realistic goal is 4th in the Championship, unless they mess up.  :D

Cheers,

-=Hristo=-

Just to see if you were awake yes.

Ferrari for you my boy.

Which sounds a little bit like you want to win without trying very hard, and that is a situation I am trying to avoid.


No, the idea of a handicapping system is that the fastest driver, in fact all drivers, are meant to have the same chance of winning, and again, you won more races than anybody else last season and took the championship down to the last race which suggests that we had a very good handicapping system.


The cars are grouped into 3 approximate groups and they are allocated on that basis. Jack O had an excellent system for grouping the cars over a season which we used and it worked very well. It is not as casually done as you make it sound, believe me.

Don't forget we also have a mid season review and drivers can and will be changed from one chassis to another if it seems we have allocated them wrongly.


You did, and I think I addressed your concerns, if not satisfied them.

It is too late now as everybody has registered for an allocated chassis, expressed their preferred choices and been allocated already.

Like I said, not just you, but everybody in both 65 divisions will be reviewed during the season to see how their allocation is working out.


I wouldn't want you to quit and I'm sure I speak for the majority of the division when I say that, and as you say, we will see how it goes.


My goal is 4th in the Clark-Hill team. ;)

There is trying hard and trying hard.


Again, it's the cost of winning I'm addressing here. Not to mention I just got lucky on couple of occassions. Statistics rarely give clear idea of things, as you know.


I meant groups of drivers, not cars. For example, group 1 would be a couple of the top drivers, group 2 a couple of the less fast ones and group 3 the remaining slowest drivers. You give the slowest cars to group 1, middle cars to group 2 and fastest cars to group 3.

That way the fastest of each group can be the target for the rest of the group, otherwise there's no incentive to improve. It gives a lot more clear view on each driver's abilities and doesn't lead to wrong misjudgment. At the same time, everyone will still have reasonable chances, but equalizing the whole field is an unnecessary utopia, IMO.


OK, I agree it's too late to make changes right now, but couldn't have written earlier before seeing the chassis allocations.


Clark-Hill is so going down!  :P

Granted, and you also got unlucky on occasion, by your own words "pulling away from Evil by a second a lap" at Silverstone when you blew an engine.

Swings and roundabouts.

Oh, and SHE can go and **** herself the ******* ****!

;)

Oooer missus!

I have to say that some of the BT11 drivers are a bit surprising

Ken, John and Fulvio for example are all very accomplished drivers, and quite frankly as quick as myself, it seems totally ridiculous that Hristo and I are the only drivers of the 16 valve Climax cars  

I didn't ask for a chassis, as I thought there would be better moderation in the allocation. So I'll put my request in now..........BT11 please.

BTW There wasn't any remark in the opening post to say that you could nominate/request your chassis. I must admit last season, my first, I simply put in the car I normally drove in the ADC thinking that it was a fair reflection. It soon became apparent that others had selected chassis which were well within their capabilities.

As the Season has not started, I see no reason why the allocation cannot be reviewed.

Even looking at the GPL rank would show a good indication of ability.

Looking at the WR times, also shows that the T77 and the BT7 are pretty well comparable, my own experience backs that up, in fact on occasion the BT7 is faster.

Like I said to Hristo Mike, this was a combined effort, I didn't do it alone it was with feedback from others who know some of the drivers better than I do. Of the 3 you mention, Ken is hard to judge on recent 65 form as he only entered 3 races and appeared not to start 2 of them, but he did qualify in 4th twice and second once.

John won the title with consistency rather than speed and with only 1 win, and using Pro rules that is perhaps the most sensible strategy.

Fulvio seemed to pick up wins due to other people's misfortunes and sensible races rather than out and out speed (no offence Fulvio ;)) as he regularly qualified in the back half of the field (8th / 9th / 13th and a 3rd).

I must stress again, there is a mid season review, and even before then if anybody is obviously out of place either fast or slow they will be reallocated a different chassis.

No handicap system is perfect and never can be, though the current 67 format has seen a huge hike in numbers registering and it will be interesting to see how well the token system will work out over the season. For now though our 65 divisions are using chassis allocation like last season and the plan is that it gets more accurate every season.

Let's hope so.

Mike

I have raced against these guys elsewhere, as late as last night at Spa, and I can assure you they are all just as compotent.

This needs to be sorted

If you review my season, it could be said that I lost any chance of winning due to inconsistancy, so where is that taken into account.

Over a season of 10 races that is debatable and we would probably not agree.


I don't see the logic in your point. Being inconsistent should not be a reason for a faster car, just like being consistent is not a reason for getting a slower car.

You had a poor second half to the season but that included 2 no shows, again not a reason to get a faster car. Even with you having a total of 3 no shows and only doing 1 lap of Albi, only 3 people got more podium finishes than yourself.

I would say you had a poor season rather than a poor allocation.


It does, and I don't want anybody in either 65 division to be unhappy with their chassis, but unfortunately that will never happen.

I have allocated the chassis in both divisions as fairly as I think anybody could, and with only 2 complaints so far out of 36 drivers I think I have got it very close.

If you are seriously unhappy with your chassis then you could report it to the chief moderator Phil.

Can I remind everyone that we asked for opinions on the format of races etc in the Mid Season Review (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=6278.msg108806#msg108806).  At the time most people were very supportive of the chassis allocation method.  Please have a look back at what you said then.  The only hint of criticism was from Mike (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=6278.msg109361#msg109361) when he backed Hristo (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=6278.msg109325#msg109325) but when taken in context of the other very positive comments from Hristo (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=6278.msg108815#msg108815), I can only conclude that on balance that both of you, and everyone else, were happy enough.  The chassis allocation this season is pretty much the same as last season so what has changed?  Why are people getting so upset?

If you remember I did say I didn't like chassis allocation (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=6278.msg109953#msg109953) but I like to give the divisional moderators the choice on how they run the division.  I would prefer a handicap system similar to that in the Historics (or Clubmans - but the WR times based calculation might not be appropriate for the 65s) but it is a bit late now.

I have discussed this with Mike (James) in private and we considered giving Hristo (and presumably Mike too now) a quicker car for some of the quicker tracks but that seems to have sparked uproar from the rest of the drivers.  So we concluded that it wasn't such a good idea.

In all honesty I don't want the hassle of arguing about who gets what chassis.  It is a game and we are here to have fun.  The handicapping is supposed to encourage closer racing and hence more fun not less.  If someone is obviously struggling then the moderator can allocate them a faster chassis mid season (and vice versa).

I think Mike (James) and I should adjourn to the moderators forum for further discussions.

I think there's a misunderstanding here. It is not a negative comment in any sort, but a constructive criticism and a personal observation. I believe Mike's (Beattie) goes the same way.

What he really means is that you cannot simply take the recent results of someone, i.e. isolate last season and judge solely on that. You have to look at the driver capacity, potential and overall speed, between divisions, mods, even sims (ok, maybe not).

For example, if I see someone fast in 67s, they're immediately going down in my book as fast drivers regardless of mod. 65? Sure, it may take a few laps to adapt and get up to speed, and when it comes to setups, it may take a bit of time too. But I'd never expect them to be slower and fighting for lower positions than they did in 67s. It just makes no sense and if it happens, it's solely down to the that driver either lacking preparation for the event, having their mind wander off, not giving their best, bad shape or whatever. But definitely not skill levels, let alone potential for becoming faster.

I think this is what Mike (Beattie) meant exactly. Ken, if I have to address someone concretely, is IMO faster than Mike. I have raced both many times, in many divisions and that is what I conclude without even having to stop and think about it. Yet he gets BT11...

John is consistent you say, but the only reason he doesn't win as often as he could is getting involved in incidents. It is obvious to anyone who has been racing for the last few years that he has improved immensely. But at the same time, BT11 is probably OK for him, for the lack of slightly slower car.

Jethro, as a slacker as he is when it comes to racing, has potential to become as fast or faster than me if he does his homework, so are we just relying that he keeps NOT doing so? I guess, lol. Otherwise he'd blow everyone and their mother away in his BT11.

If it's between Cooper and BT7, the reason Cooper is the winner is the lower drag (they're supposed to have the same engine, right?) and thus a better acceleration and top speed. And handling wise, I could never go quicker in the BT7 even on a slower track, so the Coop must be rather good. I remember at Imola the difference in my laptimes was almost a whole second between these 2 cars (I had to switch chassis so I ended up practicing properly in both). It just goes to show that engine is the single most important thing in 65s. Not only because more torque/power means better acceleration and top speed, but it also helps you turn the car with ease by reducing the natural understeer with the increased rear wheelspin.

But again, no negativism here. Only discussing things. I'm sure you can see the point if you think about it. But I'm not sure you understand the difference in effort required to mitigate the true handicap that exists. Because at the end of the day, if you're used to seeing someone give 110 % and someone else give 90 % and you handicap them according to that, what happens if the first driver drops down to 100 % or 90 %? You see the second driver walk away with it.

I know it's impossible to come up with the perfect handicap and I have said before that we have a very good system, but because of the fact that there's a human element, we need to adapt all the time in order to improve it. There's no point stepping on our toes and trying to prove who's right and wrong, but rather listen to the comments of those involved.

In this case those directly involved have a lot better insight than those looking from the side. And there's nothing personal against anyone, so I've only mentioned names to give proper examples. I won't mind being given in someone's example in the same way as it can only help out reach a better solution.

So, Mike (miner) and Phil, as always, I appreciate your time and effort and love for the league, but please don't take a mere discussion like this as an assault against your way of doing things or as a kick against the system.

SHE will punish you for those words (once we decode the stars ****), Mike (miner)!  ;D

-=Hristo=-

EDIT: Just to add something because I haven't read all of Phil's post before posting mine. Phil, we're here to have fun, but the point of racing is winning, let's not have second opinions about that. It is a Championship of people who compete with each other and the goal is to win. It's an inevitable consequence of racing and a desire that sooner or later emerges in your heart and mind, even if you initially begin with the idea of merely having fun racing other people.

So I disagree when you call it simply a game and ask us to forget about the fact that we're competing with each other for victory. It's as real as it can get, game or not. :)

Also, IMO, taking away the option to post and discuss would seriously harm the community. As long as foul language is avoided, there's no harm as far as I can see. It's bad enough that we can't start our own threads for simple things like race tips, setups and so on...

Phil & Mike, being an office holder in another Club, I appreciate your work, any attempt at equalising performance is a hard task.

I am glad to hear you are going to have further discussions.

I would like to say that the general points Hristo has made above, I feel are close to the mark.

Quite honestly, I am more than happy to drive the T77 (in fact even the BT7), it is competitive enough against the slower drivers in the quick cars. Where we have a problem is a rump of other quick drivers who have been assigned some very good chassis.

There was some belittling of the remark made earlier by Hristo regarding his health. I can assure you it is VERY stressful driving the 16v cars against quick drivers in 32v cars, remember you can only make up in the corners what you are losing on the straights, you are on the max into, through and out of every turn, the concentration level is immense (hence why I fall off regularly !!). I end each race knackered  :)

Yes, we are here for fun, but it is a Championship, there is a competitive element. You've got to feel you've got a sporting chance, or there's no point.
So please  consider ALL the evidence from within the Club's resources and from outside ( Rank ) and make sure that each driver is being set an equal challenge to his abilities.

i look forward to hearing what you have concluded

I'm trying to resist the urge not to laugh, but it's very hard...... :P

Lately, I've not slacked, last season I was approaching races the wrong way. Arguably, for 65s and 67s, I'm in a better position to win races than I ever have been, mostly due to my mental capacity within the close racing not to screw things up at every (un)feasible opportunity. I'm still unproven in 65s, my GPL65Rank(v2) confirms that. The opportunity is there in S18, and I'm going to do my best to take it.

For what it's worth, I have been following this thread and can see the dilemma from both angles.

Firstly, I think one has to assume that every driver on the track ( regardless of what car he is driving) is at or very near his physical limit and going as fast as he is able, wringing every last tenth out of his particular chassis. Otherwise there does seem to be very little point in taking part??!!
 I can end up a sweaty slime ball after a race, with eyeballs out on stalks and a BO problem that would scare Skunks!! and still not be anywhere near a podium slot!!!!! The difference is in the ability of the the "fast" brigade to get more out of a particular chassis than others can ..which is what makes them winners.
Input of physical and mental effort alone will not guarantee a win, so I'm not sure that feeling knackered after a race can be measured and calculated into a chassis allocation table, as probably everyone is equally tired after a race, but some have achieved more than others???
I think we have discussed this topic before under different guises and realised that generally ( and it can only be a generalisation) the faster guys will  ( on average) win whatever "handicap" system is used, be it  pitstops ..chassis allocation or whatever.

As Hristo and Mike know, and agree, there is no perfect handicap system and there never will be, until we have an infinite number of cars all with slightly different performance to choose from and allocate.

I take H and M's point about some drivers who maybe finished mid table last season who are not really 50% slower  and may have missed a far higher table finish only by a couple of points. Also valid is the consistant scoring of good points, if not wins, throughout the season as shown by John. Even the relative reliability of some cars over others is a factor, but how do you rate that against driver ability to keep the car at 99.9% without over stretching the whizzy bits??

In fairness, I think a watchful eye by the moderators and a good mid season review is about the best that can be offered as whatever cars are allocated there will be some anomolies.
If I prove to be the dominat force in 65's this season as I have been instructed by HER, and the mighty Wazamobile is running away with the championship, I will ( reluctantly) allow myself to be demoted chassis wise around mid season. But if I am sneaky I can throw the first few races and get myself a nice shiny Lotus or Brab to clean up in the second half of the season ;) ;D ;D ::)

i'll have a go with the lotus

OK I've taken you out of the Novices and entered you in Amateurs.

I'll give you the Lotus and the benefit of the doubt at this stage.

You have a good 67 rank but no 65 rank, however I have been warned about a mysterious chat lurker called cure who is a bit of a speed merchant so your chassis will be under review once we get started.

Which brings me on to all matters chassis allocation.

We have been adjourning to the mods forum as you know and there has been much heated discussion, but we finally decided to get a dozen sausage rolls and ten sandwiches rather than two trays of vol au vents.

Once lunch was out of the way we got onto business and decided the following.

(1) For the time being we will leave the chassis allocations as they are.

(2) Chassis changes (up or down) can happen at any time and not just after the mid season review.

(3) As part of the mid season review we will be putting up a poll to decide whether in Season 19 the 65 divisions here at UKGPL stick with chassis allocation or use a different handicapping method. (I will open a new thread nearer the time to discuss possible options and I would like all current 36 drivers in the 65 divisions to post in that thread when it appears).

(4) We see the 65s as an excellent first step into the GPL online experience and would not want to make the handicapping method too difficult to grasp which is why I currently favour chassis allocation as I know does Jack O who handled it so well last season as the mid season review shows.

(5) The mid season review should be used by everybody to give feedback (good or bad) to help us improve the handicapping year on year.

(6) Whatever handicapping method happens in Amateurs should also happen in Novices as there is often some crossover.


***NOTE***
I realise that there are 2 disgruntled drivers at the moment (there may be more who are less vocal in the forums) and I am sorry about that, but there is no way of pleasing everybody all of the time. As the moderator for the division I have to look at both sides and see that there are 34 happy (or satisfied) drivers and I see that as a positive result.

Please rest assured that point 2 above has always been the case though it may not have been mentioned publicly and I will be watching results closely for anomolies.

All of the named drivers mentioned above (as Hristo says) are done so only as illustrative examples and nothing personal should be taken from that, just as none of the discussion in the thread is personal.

Well if the anomolies are racing too I want a faster chassis  ;)

LOL
I like that.
Glad to see that the time spent in foreign parts has not dulled your sense of humour.

It's trying very hard! Not here much longer all being well!  :)

Hi all,
I m newbie and i will be very happy to join this championship....
I came from Italy and  i m very very slowly   ;) ....
but i have more fun with gplegend ;)

if you are really slow it might be best for you to join the other (slower) 65 div .

john

ok John..
I m signed to novice thopy

Pending the moderating report into Clermont-Ferrand and my subsequent (non)participation at Zandvoort, I am withdrawing my activites in this particular division until further notice. My intention is to compete at Zandvoort, but if my suspension comes into effect then it won't happen. I'm fed up with crashing so early on in races in this division, through my own fault and others around me.

Aren't you jumping the gun Jethro?
You showed what you are capable of at Bremgarten  :angel-wings:

Yes, but that's Bremgarten. I'm not jumping the gun, I know what's coming. I like Zandvoort, hence my desire to race there in all cars, but I'm not doing the rest of the races, not after this season.

That's called quitting, Jethro. Unless the management bans you or something, just keep racing and learn from your mistakes. It's the only road to improvement, not quitting...

BTW, trust me when I say that I've seen FAR worse drivers than you, including aliens who keep wrecking half the field in almost each race and get banned from more than one league. I won't mention names  ;D , but relax - it's nobody of the current active here.

Any chance of racing in the final race at Monza? Any chassis will do.

Yes, you need to vote in the poll at the top of this thread so we can add you to the system.

And the password is??????

Very very sorry Ronnie.  We obviously didn't process your registration in time, if we had you would have seen the password above the race thread.

Oh well, I hope to have better luck next season.

The Novices championship was decided at Monza (subject to moderation).  But there is still one round left, the rerun of the Oulton Park round to be held on 9th Feb.  Now there is no championship at stake, you'd be more than welcome to join that race.  Please vote in the Novices Registration thread (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=6678) and I'll make sure your application is processed in plenty of time to see the password!!