SimRacing.org.uk

Onto race five. Lorenzo still leads the Works with Rick sitting on the top spot in the Privateers. Being a fast circuit some chassis strategy may come into play. Please bear in mind there are a mixture of driver abilities and no second chances with Pro.

Race List = IGOR
Server = ukgpl.4
IP address = 84.70.14.34
Race date = 01-11-2009
Time = 21:00 UK time (21:00 GMT)
Track = Spa Francorchamps
Variant = 67F1
Damage Model = PRO
Qualifying time = 35 minutes. Don't start until 30 mins left on clock to allow everyone to join.
Race length = 50 minutes (15 laps)

Password: see above (#post_event_password)

Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R;group=225;theme=6)
The track can be downloaded from : standard papy track
Add-on’s available at : http://srmz.net/index.php?showtopic=143 (http://srmz.net/index.php?showtopic=143)

Please be in IGOR UKGPL chatroom by 8:50 pm UK Time = GMT).

Reserve drivers should not join the server until there are only 30 minutes of qualifying left. Please restrict chat to pit messages. Moderating will be by reported incidents only, however the moderators reserve the right to review any incident with a particular emphasis on lap one. The aim is to review the race the following weekend so incident reports should be submitted within five days of the race (ie the following Friday).
We're hopeful most incidents can be resolved amicably and recommend a days deep breath with a replay review before posting. A sorry in the forum won't be taken as an automatic admission of guilt by the moderators.

With the new token system chassis strategy will be a factor. A driver must have sufficient tokens for the chassis he drives in the race.  Any driver who does not have sufficient tokens will be disqualified from the result and his tokens will be set to zero.

Chassis costs;
Lotus 20 / Eagle 17 / Ferrari 15 / Brabham 10 / Cooper 5 / Honda 3 / BRM 0

To see your current tokens hover your mouse over your total points on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R;group=225;theme=6). Ten tokens will be added when you cross the start line.

The Championship is split into two sub-divisions, namely Works and Privateers. The current driver split is;

WORKS drivers

Evil Clive	Tim FMG	Andrew Hodgson
Hristo Itchov	James Rye	Ruud Savelkoul
Sam B	Jethro W	Will Tway
John Roberts	Phil Thornton	Ken Murray (R)
Fulvio Policardi (R)	Doni Yourth (R)	Mike Beattie (R)
Lorenzo Galluzzi (R)	Kruger Enge (R)

PRIVATEERS drivers

Al Heller	Bookie W	Graham Poole
Bartosz Podreckony	Rick Nauman	Sharkfin (R)
Steve Bird	Vosblod	Burtoner (R)
Billy Nobrakes (R)	Viss (R)	Peter Maestro (R)
Bernie D (R)	Michael Turner	King Hero (R)

67 Patch: The 1.3 Release of the 67mod can be used.

NOTE: In the event of more then 19 entrants a second grid will be run for the Privateers on ukgpl.6. (IP 80.5.200.198) Instructions will be provided in the chatroom – please ensure you join the correct server, due to the way we import if you start the race on the wrong server your result will not count. If you can try to make sure you are in the chatroom by 8.50pm this will enable a decision without any delays to the start time.

Designed by Jules de Their and Henri Langlois Van Ophem, the original 15 km (9.3 mile) triangle-shaped course used public roads between the Belgian towns of Francorchamps, Malmedy and Stavelot. The Belgian Grand Prix was held at Spa-Francorchamps for the first time in 1924. Eighteen Formula One World Championship Grands Prix were run on the Spa-Francorchamps circuit's original configuration, which was boycotted by F1 in 1968, before the revised circuit banished it to the history books in the late 70s. Over the years, the Spa course has been modified several times. The biggest change saw the circuit being shortened from 14 km (8.7 miles) to 7 km (4.35 miles) in 1979. Since inception, the place has been famous for its unpredictable weather. Frequently drivers are confronted with one part of the course being clear and bright while another stretch is rainy and slippery. The circuit probably demonstrates the importance of driver skill more than any other in the world. This is largely due to the Eau Rouge and Blanchimont corners, both of which need to be taken as cleanly as possible to achieve a fast run onto the straights after them, which aids a driver in both a fast lap and in over-taking.

Still working on this one  ::) ::) ::)

Flat out through Eau Rouge and Blanchimont in 67's?????

Blanchimont..yes ;D  but,  please tell me when this is to be demonstrated through Eau Rouge :drool:, as I wish to put on my hernia belt first... so I don't split my sides laughing at the wreckage. :jumpjoy:

Better ask whoever wrote it on Wikipedia  ;)

might have known Wikipedia the font of all knowledge  :D :D :D

I dunno, I blame the person who selectively cut and paste the track guide without CHECKING IT WAS RELEVANT!!!! :P

:whistling: well someone might be able to do it...

I don't have admin rights. So there. :P

Eau Rouge Jethro  ;)

I know that. Allow me to rephrase the passage for ya.

"This is largely due to the Eau Rouge and Blanchimont corners, both which need to be taken as cleanly as possible to achieve a fast run onto the straights after them, which aids a driver in both a fast lap and in over-taking.

Your wish is my command  ;D

So kind. ;)

Now to actually get my Eagle under 3m16.

I give up if you do.

Still .6 off breaking into the 3:15s in the Eagle. Apparently the record is 3:13s for UKGPL :o

I think my bigger problem is avoiding "that house" at Masta rather than trying to go any faster  :-X

Andrew

Is that 67's  ::)

Yep  :P

https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4210#event888

I forsee being a backmarker...

Its easy to do Eau Rouge and Blanchimont flat out... if you put the accent on "out" :)

I myself have regularly engaged full throttle to extract myself from the scenery in those corners, so it must be true!

Last time I raced at Spa in UKGPL my Fez engine blew right before Masta. The resulting carnage from the following pack was pretty spectacular.

Last time I attempted Spa, I was battling with somebody and whilst in front, had a wobble at Masta. The resulting collision caused chaos for the chasing pack, and on rejoining, we managed to collide *again*.

I finally managed that feat last night in qually for the BREASTS event. It felt a bit of a scruffy lap tbh and my Prib said 15.41 was possible although my actual best was 15.75!!

Yeah, I got close but was quite scruffy throughout. I could do with a replay of qualy though. ;)

I forgot to save the replay, but Clive will have it I'm sure.

Just in case there are any mere mortals out there that may be getting a little put off by these alien times being thrown around for Spa, there are still a few of us that are lapping at the more humanised pace of 3:20 +, so if you are thinking about it, don't be put off racing with us here.  There's still some fun to be had, even if you don't have shares in a spaceship and have a weekend retreat on planet Zarg!

 ;D

No worries Steve , there all 1 lap wonders  ;D

Using the WR groove for Spa instantly improves your laptimes by at least 1-2 seconds, at least for those who haven't reached sub 16s yet. I suggest you give it a go.

If I knew where to get it and how to install it then I might give it a go!  Where can we find out about it H?  :)

http://gplea.rscsites.org/tools/trl/TheRacingLine.html

Thank you.

Thanks H just what I needed , a set of tools so this computer moron can really screw up GPL for good  ;D

maybe sometime in the next century but for now I think I'd better  stay a member of the 23 secs club  :D

I seem to remember you throwing down some 17's and 18's a season or two ago, Bernie  ;)

Bernie, there's nothing much to it. You feed it 3 files per track: .CLN, .GRV and .RPY (of a WR lap i.e.) and it replaces the track groove with a new one made from the replay. Read the readme then try it yourself. You'd be glad you did, especially at some tracks that have terrible default groove.

 :lol: :lol: :lol: sub 3:16's!!!!!!  I have only got below 3:20 once in my life!!  that was in a Fezza ( 3:17 in a Breasts race a couple of years ago) and I still don't know what I did right that evening and what I have been doing wrong the rest of the time!! The lap felt the same as any other and yet was a good 3-4 secs faster??!!
I have only ever had the default groove, and I rarely follow that anyway, preferring to plough my own furrow across various verges and banks.. ::)
So this Waza will be running with the exclusive membership of the 3:20 club  ;)

Not me mate , may have been my team mate Alonso from the dark side  ;)

However he's never been the same since he aquired a bus pass and tells me that nowadays the onset of rhumatis has slowed him down quite a lot .

As for the even darker side of the PC world,  one of the big problems I have is whenever  I double click the mouse button , up pops a new screen and then I immediatly forget why I double clicked in the first place and cant remember why I am there or what it was I needed to do which ends up with me taking a comfort brake to let my overstreched grey matter cool down , by which time I have returned back to the much simpler vertual world of spider solitaire in the hope that the problem I just created will somehow repair magic itself away.

If I could fix it with a screwdriver or a ruddy great hammer all would be fine , but the computer is much too subtle for my brain and has about 99 buttons too many  ::)



 

Try the WR groove and I bet you'll be getting sub 20s consistently!

Maybe I am wrong here and in which case I have been for all my time in GPL. ( something which is undoubtedly possible ::) )

Surely, it cannot be all about the "groove" or line through the corners. It has to be more to do with setup and driving style (and / or ability).

If the setup one is driving does not provide the handling and performance to follow the groove, then I cannot see how it will happen as the car simply will not be able to brake or turn in where the groove suggests it should?

Besides which, I am with Bernie on this one.....anything that involves switching files about and messin' with what ain't broke is doomed to failure and frustration around these parts. :-\

Well, personally I can't drive most tracks I know if I turn their groove off. In other words, I'm used to driving them with the groove, using it for braking, cutting and turn in reference points. Changing to WR groove would benefit those that use the default groove in similar way, but if you're driving without relying on the groove then I guess the benefit would be less.

It can still show you where you're taking the wrong lines and so on, and on tracks like Spa the difference is noticeable. Same for Silverstone and Mexico, and some others I can't remember right now.

If you can run GEM, you'd have no problem managing this program, it's far less complex. You simply specify a track, point to a few files you download in advance and let it do its thing. :)

Thanks for the pointers H I'm having a go at installing right now but my heart isnt really in it atm .

Today I trashed my baby which is now,  as I type , lying alone  injured and bleeding in the garage  :'( :'( :'(

And even GPL cannot kill the pain I am feeling  :'(

 

Sorry to hear of your misfortune Bernie :-\

For what its worth, I too have tried this magical "groove" thing, purely in the interests of scientific research as I think it is kinda cheating to use someone else's hard work, rather than drive using your own judgement and skill. ;)

It took me a while (and quite a lot of stress) but got the groove installed, and Hey Presto!! a different grey line on the track. Very Impressive  ::) It does go some way to explaining why a lot of the cars I race online take what I always thought was a very strange line into Eau Rouge, swinging in from the pit side of the circuit whereas I always take a straight line through the first left kink to hit an early apex of the uphill righthander and apply the power out over the left hand crest.

Sadly, it is 95% the same line as I would take anyway and in fact at the two or three points that are different, my normal line "feels" quicker :-\ but that might be a misconception.

 I found I had to alter my setup to get the car to turn in or hold those newer lines under acceleration and as a result my lap times have tumbled by about 0.5 secs... :-\   and are still above the 3:20 mark!!!!

At the moment, I remain convinced that if the groove was done with an Eagle, then to try and follow that line with something like the Honda will be ( for me anyway!!) nigh impossible. Even using the Eagle you would surely need your setup to be almost identical to that used in making that WR ?? plus the skill/ability to drive that quickly and accurately. lol Something that might be the root cause of my probs here. ;D

...or am I still missing something???

No Clive I think you hit the head of the nail there , pretty much the same hear got the new groove but cant quite get in it as they say. (do I hear a song coming on)

same results with the fezza its around 1 sec per lap slower than my 3 20 ish PB with the old groove , I too had to tweek the set up to get the car to follow the new groove (which isnt "that"far from what I was doing previously )

exit speed from La Au rough seems about the same but anyway I wasnt having a problem with the first half of the track it was always the two left handers leading tothe long straight bit at the end of the lap where i lose shed loads of speed , maybe Im just trying tooo hard  :)

The groove might help with some of the other tracks , have to wait n see  ::)

 

Yes I must admit I really enjoyed the groove-less (and un-groovable) Oulton as I worked out braking & turning-in points that suited my own "style".

My 10p worth.. I have tried the WR grooves at a few tracks but as Clive suggested, they might not suit everyone - especially people with their own unique driving style (like Clive's sideways thing ;)). I tend to be earlier & lighter on the brakes than most, so the WR grooves can be more of a hindrance than a help - in the sense that if I try to match the groove's WR hotlap braking point in a race with full tanks & cold tyres I've had it. Of course I normally use trackside objects etc as braking points but occasionally I switch off for a second & blindly follow the groove's braking points which normally results in my demise.

However I have found it useful to re-groove the track with one of my own laps (very easy to do with GPLRA) & that works well for driving to my own limits. 

I think re grooving with your own PB lap is a far better idea , even so its nice to compare with the WR holders . For me it just comfirms that we all have somehow unique and independant driving styles .

As for the aliens we set our sights on,  each one has his own vastly different set up but still have equal lap times  ::)

Well, it does take some time getting used to the groove and some braking points don't match with different drivers and cars, but overall it helps following the ideal line as long as you don't overdo it. Going in too fast or braking too deep would lose you a lot more speed than accelerating early and I think that's what the WR lines emphasize on.

I haven't done even 1 lap....engine passed away..
Apologies to Mike, i'm really sorry about the contact at the begin..

Couldnt get on the server , dunno what the problem is tried all  I knew, ended up re booting and found I could joinbut then discovered it was the grads teamy server UKGPL6

With hopes raised I went to join the privateers race but got the same timed out message  :'(

It seems to me that only password protected races are a problem

I can join none pw servers OK with no probs

to say i'm gutted is an understatement ,I just feel like throwing this stupid box of tricks on the skip  :-\ :-\ :-\

 

Oh for Pete's sake... I cannot get a good race at Spa. I can get great qualifyings, but not actually finish a race. That's 4 on the trot at UKGPL I've not finished here. The qualifying went alright, and on a last gasp charge with 5 seconds before the flag went, I had a lap that was on target to beat Ken's impressive effort, but I screwed it up 4 corners from the end at La Carriere. 4th on the grid it had to be.

I beat Hristo on the run into Eau Rouge, and kept it on the run out. I passed John on the run down to Stavelot with a much much better exit from Masta, and then set my sights on Ken. At that point, the silly little mistakes started creeping in, and before long, I'd missed my braking point at Blanchimont, and spun around to not-face the oncoming traffic. John and Hristo screamed past, as did evilclive, but Andrew wasn't so lucky as I face a bad rejoin penalty for that. Apologies Andrew, your car literally came out of nowhere as I was watching Prib and trying not to take all of the track. Eau Rouge came next and my car went all twitchy and vaulted itself off the banking, where I ended up on the opposite side of the track upside down and in flames. The fire marshalls are very quick here, but my race was over all too early.

I had a nice chase with JR and Andrew, until Jethro took care of the latter, then I tried to catch JR but he was a bit too fast. I was lacking top speed as my throttle wasn't 100% on and therefore tried to compensate by taking more risks in corners, but eventually that bit me back as I spun into the house after Masta.

BTW, the track (and results) are missing in the overall standings page.

Now fixed

Bernie, I seem to be getting an increasingly difficult time joinining too.  Not sure what's triggered it.  All required ports are open on my Router.  The only thing that seemed to help was to turn off the Windows Firewall altogether, join a session, leave, turn Windows Firewall back on and things seemed to work this time.

Hope you get it sorted.

Argh, another DNF.

After managing reliable 3:15s/16s in practice with the Eagle (what else do you drive around Spa?), I could barely break 3:19 in qually and kept visiting the scenery. Managed to get a 3:18 eventually and abandoned trying to set faster times after that.

Got off the line awfully but everyone around me was tentative through Eau Rouge so managed to hold position. Lined up behind Hristo and could have had him in the first few corners but thought it would be better not to clobber him off the track with cold tyres at the beginning of a PRO race. Phil was behind me but I started to pull away from him so concentrated on staying in touch with the Honda in front. Hristo (and JR in front of him) started to slowly pull away as the laps ticked by, but I felt in control and was under-driving the car at this point. Meanwhile, Hristo was obviously struggling on the limit with his disadvantaged white whale to keep up with the Eagles, so I decided I would pounce in the latter part of the race if he was within range.

This carefully laid plan came rather unstuck when I was ambushed by Jethro @ Blanchimont  :P Felt a bit sorry for him as he was broadside across the track with no real way to know I was about to come barrelling around the corner. He just clipped my rear tire, putting me up the banking. No damage was done and I was able to rejoin in front of Phil Thornton without losing position (although Phil nearly had me into the turn before La Source as I was still getting up to speed). Jethro showed a lot of remorse afterwards so I don't have any hard feelings about it. Just one of those things I guess.

Paradoxically, the incident made me drive a lot quicker, and I put in my fastest lap of the race afterwards (3:18.1) and started to reel Hristo's whale in (JW having retired at this point). However, as is always the case with my driving, I started daydreaming about what I would do if/when I caught up with him, and not paying attention to my immediate track position. As a result, I downshifted too early in Burneville on lap 7 and oversteered up into the hedge. Race over, again :(

Thanks Steve

The first thing I tried was the firewall , but like I said,  its OK to join on- line races that dont need a password .

The problem seems to be that Igor is throwing a corrupted password into the server , I dont think its clearing the old stuff from the register .

I try joining via IP address , type in the password ,get the timed out message , try to rejoin and I can still see the password i typed in plus some other extension which shouldnt be there  :-\

Trouble is how do I test it ? I cant join a passworded race without a p/w to check .

last night as a reserve, I duly waited for the 30min qually signal and by that time everyone was out on track, so too late to get help , and of coarse who would have wanted to know if you were all off racing   ::)

I have no idea at all what this problem is but will try a post on RSC , maybe good old Bob Simpson can help if I can grab his attention  :)

Pity is I like Spa and I am rather good there so was looking to a good result with a faster chassis , now ive wasted points and wont get the starters points either , must have upset the gods this week , what with smashing my pride and joy and all i'm really fed up .

wonder if it was them Jahovas witnesses I told to "go away" last week , perhaps they put a hex on me and mine  :o








  

Mystery that one, I often get timed out a couple of times then get on.
Might be worth checking your igor.ini (c/program files/gplsecrets/igor) in case there is anything odd mixed up in there.
Otherwise guess RSC is the place to go.

Ta mate

Not sure how I would know if Igor ini is corrupted or not ?

Posted on RSC now and waiting for an angel to arrive or someone with a magic wand  :D

Thinking back it seems these probs have all started since i upgraded my AVG firewall , but like I say ive turned that off and still no go,  anway it works fine joining with the firewall on and no password.

See if the extra extension is in the igor.ini - sounds like a Boss password? But if you accidentally put in a boss password it shouldn't stop you joining a race.
Also, should have said, when we run two grids no need to wait if you are a Reserve as there is room for everyone. I tend to wait in chat till about 30 minutes left in case there are any problems, not that I could have helped you in this instance.

After the forum discussion about “grooves” etc in the past few days and the alien lap times being discussed…….I mean, who with human DNA can do sub 3:16’s!!!.
To add to my misery, I made the mistake of looking up some Honda setups for Spa on the track database to give me an idea as to what lap times are achievable with the whale, only to discover that some weirdo’s can do 3:14’s and below with Nippon’s finest!!!!
I confess that seeing times some 7-8 secs faster than I was getting made me feel like retiring. I was on the ragged edge through most corners and the rev counter was against the stop down the straights.
Installing the WR groove made little difference as the line was just about what I was doing anyway.
So, what makes the 7+ seconds difference????  Frankly, I would be happy with 3 secs faster!!
At this point I have to confess to what is a cardinal sin and cheating in my book!! I downloaded the Honda setup of James Dayjur, in a desperate attempt to find an answer, rather than persevering with my own development. 
Although it was no quicker ( certainly not 3:14 material in my hands!!) it was much more stable through Malmedy where my setup frequently lost the rear end.
Some minor adjustments to JD’s setup gave me a solid feeling chassis, although I was a little concerned that the engine revs were right on the limit at the ends of the straights, but if it works for James then it must be ok for me ?? ( maybe!!).

After all this swapping of files etc I had only gained about 0.5 secs, which was probably down to running more laps than any great technological breakthrough. So, I gave up trying to master Spa and went to watch the TV !!  bah humbug!!
I returned just in time for the start of the race, really not expecting to a) qualify well or b) even finish the race.

The first few qually attempts merely served to confirm my worst fears, with trips into the undergrowth and scenery, usually on 3 wheels. Eventually I said “sod it!” dumped a load of fuel and went for a banzai, sh*t or bust lap and was amazed to squeak a sub 3:20 lap. OK, it was only 0.2 secs below 3:20 but in my book that was a success!!!
Still almost back of the grid with a sea of Eagles and Lotii in front..hmmmmm. not looking too good.

My only hope was a mass suicide at Eau Rouge lap 1, so I held back at the start only to be disappointed as all the aliens went through unscathed.
The race was fun and the engine held out to complete the race. Despite a race long swapping of places with Phil’s Lotus and some slipstreaming, I still did not break into the sub 3:20’s in race trim but had great fun.
The only thing I learned following a Lotus and an Eagle at various points in the race is that perhaps I am a fraction slower through each corner than they were which adds up to a few seconds by the end of the lap.
Ironically I seemed to be faster through Masta than any other car I followed which is where I thought I would lose time??!!
Grats to Ken John and Mike I will have to ( a first for me) study the replay and try and identify where I’m losing out at Spa, because this circuit is becoming a pain in the neck for me.

I ran the entire event on the wrong setup - nuf said :turned:

Quite pleased with my 3:22 in qualy though baring that in mind  :D

Strategically conservative was my plan for this Spa go in opting for the Brabham BT24.  Not dynamite quick around here, for sure, but likely as not to last while the Eagles and Loti melted under the hot pace.  With luck, a top 5 or even a podium wasn't out of the question.

Thanks to the grief of others, that all seemed to be working to plan since as late as L11, I was up to P5.  However, Clive and Phil were recovering from dramas and carving chunks out of my tenuous lead over them.  A little too anxious thru Malmedy on L12 had me pointing the wrong way with minor damage and I could do nought but sit and wait til they both roared by.  C'est la guerre!  In truth, they probably would have gunned me down in the remaining laps anyway.

Grats to Ken on a fine win!  Great job by JR and especially Mike after recovering from a delay.

evilclive, I have a 3:14.9 in the Eagle, but that's hotlapping and requires about 10 laps of crashing for every one sub 3:15 lap ;) I wouldn't say I'm an alien by any stretch of the imagination.

Consider that every sector at Spa is >44 seconds. 1 second in each sector is therefore only ~2.2% improvement maximum. Virtually all of this improvement is gained from good exits from corners like Malmedy and Stavelot, that are followed by long straights where you can carry the extra speed.

For example, a good exit from Stavelot for me has me doing around 150mph in the Eagle, a poor exit and I'm doing 140-145. That's a 6% difference that is carried up a good portion of the hill to La Carriere. Blanchimont is another good place to get juicy gains, as it should be flat out after the initial 3rd gear left-hander all the way up to La Source (with maybe a tiny lift just for safety going through that left-hander just before the hairpin). Again, only low single digit percentages are requried to get a correspondingly massive sector time improvement.

Have to say most of it is the car though. Spa is the ultimate power circuit and a stable, long-wheelbase machine like the Eagle is perfectly suited to it. I don't think I'd get anywhere near 3:20 in a Honda! :o

If what you say is true Andrew and all sectors are around 44secs, then I am losing 7 secs on sector 1 alone as I clock around

52secs sector 1
high 46 sec for sector 2
mid 46 sector 3
around 55 sector 4

I agree with you comment about exit speeds from the critical corners, even to the extent that having taken the first left at Blanchimont flat in 3rd I am getting into 4th at the second element and keep it welded to the floor until braking late for La Source.  ( ask Phil  ;) )

Stavelot is definitely a steady in, fast out corner in the whale, as I find that any aggressive allocation of power provokes the rear end to start a slide and tyre temps go into the ultra violet.

I will be spending an evening or two analysing the setup I stole and the actions of the aliens ( Hristo in particular!) in an attempt to see where I can salvage some dignity. ::)

well Clive ,

after reading about your attempts to go fast at spa in the old rice burner i thought that i'd take it for a lap or two ...

well i did go a bit faster than my old PB but just to make you feel better my time was only 3:20.431 , just compare that to my eagle qually time of 3m17.139 shows you what a mountain you will have to climb  (btw aliens don't climb they fly) .

john

I managed a low 3m 18s  in the Loti some years ago (still have the replay somewhere ) but I dont know to this day how on gods earth I did it  ;D

What's more , all attempts to recreate my glory lap now fail miserably  :'(

Gotta blame old age and ruematiz I suppose  ::)

Personally I think hot laps are about as much use as chocolate tyres on evils wassa  ;D

As far as a 15 lap PRO race is concerned much better to have something you can get around a lap or two without constantly resorting to the rosary beads and gripping the wheel like your holding onto a sumo rosselers underpants  ::)

I find my setups are a lot more manageable with the ride height jacked up a tad and a bit of compliance in the suspension ,then it feels more like driving a car than a floornboard on wheels

The venesians and marsians among us all seem to go for low and solid , they just dont work for me   :-\

  

Firstly, quiet bad lag issues at various stages, every time I got close to a car in front they started to waver about, Donnie being geographically the furthest away was a real nightmare to follow. I just query UKGPL4, as it was the one we had issues with in the last Interleague race.

Kept having dramas in Qually and only managed to get one full lap in, which was enough for 6th spot. The start was VERY conservative at the front, and lead to some serious bunching mid-field through Eau Rouge and Les Combes. This put Lorenzo hot on my tail into Burnenville and I went wide to let him by on the inside, but in my replay he seemed to catch the grass which sent him over towards me and then I had a face full of hedge.

Racing incident in my view and it didn't effect my final result, so NP Lorenzo

I was amazed to still have an operating car at the end of the crash, but it was all fine.  Otherwise no incidents, folk seemed to fall off as I approached aand so for the last half of the race I was in the top 3, too far behind JR, but once Evil fell off, I had a comfy gap of 10 secs back to Fulvio which I was able to maintain.

I don't often drive the Lotus, so it was an experience, impressive pace by the Ken & John, grats to all.

You can find 1 second in S1 by getting cleanly through Eau Rouge and cleanly through Les Combes. A very clean exit from Malmedy and high speed through Masta will get you another second in S2. S3 requires a clean exit from Stavelot whilst maintaining a high speed as you can find more time there without thinking about it, and the final sector needs La Carriere clean and Blanchimont / La Source steady to gain a second or so. I'm a second per sector faster compared to you, so I know it's possible. I've seen that Honda lapped far quicker than me too!

awwwww, but  :wheelchair:   you're just saying that to make me feel better ::)

Maybe, but I know you can do it. :)

I can concur with Mikes comments regarding lag, and I also think UKGPL4 is the culprit. Whenever I was following cars in qually they were jumping all over, thankfully I didn't have to follow anyone in the race.

I have to take some of the blame for the leisurely start, I got on the move OK but then squirmed a couple of times as we headed down to Eau Rouge. I felt sure John would be up alongside and kind of backed off to let him through. I kept well to the right as we went through the first kink and I was relieved to see a glimpse of John in my mirrors as we climbed the hill towards the left. I could then take a normal line and headed off up to Les Combes. Soon it was Jethro running behind me and he was going at a good pace. I was just managing to stretch out my lead but it was fluctuating on various parts of the track. Jethro seemed better through Malmedy and Masta but I seemd stronger towards the end of the lap through La Carriere and Blanchimont. The gap was never more than 2 or 3 seconds and I couldn't relax at all. Then suddenly it was John in second place and the gap was about 7 or 8 secs but again over the next few laps that seemed pretty stable and John seemed to gain on me in the same places as Jethro. Eventually as the fuel load came down the car became more manageable and I began to extend the lead bit by bit. Early on with 15 laps of fuel on board the Eagle had been a bit of a handful, I dare not think what the Honda felt like in that situation!! So it was a fairly comfortable, if not a little nervous, last few laps with a fair amount of short shifting just to be on the safe side with the engine.

I used to struggle at Spa like a few have mentioned in the thread. I spent years trying to get the Cooper negative but when I finally managed it I seemed to be able to repeat it easily. I still have no idea what I am doing differently. I would agree with Hristo that the line is especially important here and Andrew has already discussed how important exit speed is at Spa.

Yes it is a worry but with the demise of UKGPL.1 (which could only run 67s on VROC anyway) we don't have a dedicated server on a "commercial" quality connection.  UKGPL.4 is my server on a home connection which does seems to be OK most of the time (it is in testing anyway).  UKGPL.5 is a similar setup but UKGPL.6 is better.  We discussed the server issue in the Season 17 mid season review.  Look at my comments on Item 2 (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=6278.msg109953#msg109953).

However, if it is proving a major problem perhaps now is a time for a rethink.

In the last inter league race we did move off UKGPL.4 onto GPLRACER6 because some drivers were complaining of severe warp.  However some people (John Roberts comes to mind) had good connections.  When we moved to GPLRACER6 my connection wasn't too good, on the banking the cars were bouncing all over the place (I've got my client replay which should show the warp I was experiencing).  It seems we just swapped one set of drivers with warp problems to another set of drivers with similar warp problems when we moved servers.

Perhaps we need to be a bit more scientific in the way we approach this.  I think we need to save client replays so we can compare how bad the warp was and try to determine what affect the geographic location of the drivers has.

I'll be doing it with Amateurs tomorrow. :)

I've been having a lot of warp this season and this have never been the case in the past. I know my connection hasn't changed and I have no (bad) warp in other leagues. There are cars that don't warp much for me, i.e. JR in this race, but some other warp like hell and I assume I warp like hell from their point of view.

All that takes the fun out of close racing and actually makes it impossible most of the time, unless you're willing to risk a pass and end up with a contact (which inevitably happens, i.e. Oulton in Historics, L1 T2).

I hope we can move onto a better server soon. Wish I could provide a solution, but that's not the case.

P.S. We've had decent races without warp on some people's own hosts, i.e. Fulvio's and some others. Although they're not commercial servers, their connections were stable enough to provide consistent quality and latency for everyone.

ghosts of those past races and the run ins I had with jackO regarding warp contact ,

which of coarse we al know could never have possibly happened  ::)

There is a problem with renting servers for our own uses. Grand Prix Legends is not supported on most of them, and that's why we have to make do with UK connections and their inadequacies.

Yes I'm coming to the conclusion that it is my ISP.  I've been getting quite a lot of timeouts simply browsing the internet these days.  Something that has only started in the last month or two since my ISP changed me onto another tariff because my old one was "no longer available".

I'm going to start looking into alternative ISPs but that is going to take a while to resolve.  We'll have to find another server to run the Graduates Works race on.

Phil, have you tried speed testing your connection?

http://www.speedtest.net/

Just for a comparison I am getting 5.61 Megs down and 0.36 Megs up.

Mine, 6, is (Oulton aside) pretty stable. Think it's a combination of being stand alone, ie I'm not also racing GPL on the same network, and being a cable connection which seems to be more solid. The home ISP (Talk Talk) is pretty good but occassionally will cut.
Difficult one as we don't have any more servers. If we did use a commercial server, on the basis we can get it to run GPL - just find out who others are using, there's also a cost factor. When I looked at one for work was in the region of £20/£30 a month.

Just tested it.  I'm getting 4.32 down, 0.38 up but perhaps more importantly 52ms ping to a server in Birmingham that is 100 miles away.

When I tested it against a server in Istanbul about 1700 miles away I got 4.39 down, 0.37 and 110ms ping

and finally against a server in Sydney Australia (10550 miles away) I got 3.66 down, 0.30 and 340ms ping

I'd be very interested to know how that compares to a known good GPL server

Ken, speed doesn't really make a difference. You can play fine even on Dial-Up connection speeds. It's the quality of the lines that are important, low ping, good sync and so on, I'm not really knowledgeable in these things to tell exactly.


Your pings seem just about OK, Phil. I get similar from Bulgaria to such distances, it mostly depends on your ISP and where the traffic exits from the country.

As you've probably noticed, warp in GPL is much more affected by bad Quality bar (not sure what it means exactly) than by the Latency bar (which reflects the ping). Also frequent changes/fluctuations (i.e. each few seconds) of the bars can give a lot of warp. So even though your momentary ping may seem fine, it may be playing around during races. As for the S (synchro) bar I don't think that's a problem in here.

Phil

The other issue is if anyone else is using the telephone line for calls or internet at the same time.

I've just got one of the new BT Accelerator adaptors for my system, which fits onto the phone socket and is supposed to clear out ant crap on the line and speed things up, I'll let you know how it performs when fitted.

I think the qually bar is a measure of the amount of noise on the line , all lines of propogation have some background eletron noise plus other stuff that shouldnt be there (switching spikes etc.) the required signal has to be decoded from all the other stuff on the line , its done by using clever mathematics , checksums and things , but if the background noise is high the decoded signal gets broken and packets are lost ( My take on it anyway as an ex and long redundant television engineer )

 ::)

 

Hi Phil, for what it's worth tested ukgpl6 and got the following;
1) Birmingham. Down 9.86, up 0.47, ping 24
2) Istanbul. Down 4.71, up 0.47, ping 89
3) Sydney. Down 1.58, up 0.37, ping 332

Speedtest now have a sister site called Pingtest, which measures packet loss, ping and jitter and then grades your connection.
http://www.pingtest.net/

I also had lat bar going up and down during the race. Following Evil and even more Phil was difficult with their cars jumping ahead. Anyway good racing with them :)

Qual. bar shows the percentage of good packets transmitted and it affects more than an high latency to the server.

I have control of Team7 server that is rented on a 10 Mbs down/up line, upload speed is the factor for a server, and another server that runs on a good reliable line. I can see if one of them is available on a planned basis for Graduates calendar on Sunday.

Ciao

I've got a cable connection at home here in London (Virgin Media) so I thought it might be interesting to compare to the servers:
1) Birmingham - Down 9.36 - Up 0.49, Ping 19
2) Istanbul - Down 2.80 - Up 0.48 - Ping 84
3) Sydney - Down 2.59, Up 0.44, Ping 323

Just a thought but have you looked into your ISP's "throttling" policy? I believe a few ISP's are a bit cagey about declaring what they do but Virgin Media have at least been transparent about theirs - ie., for a 10Mb line, if you download more than 1500MB at peak time (10am-3pm) you get throttled by 75% for the following 5 hours  >:(. Naturally the peak time download limits increase depending on how much you fork out  - the 50Mb line doesn't have any limits. But 'throttling' aside, I've been very impressed with cable as the connection has remained pretty stable & consistent.

Doesn't mean much to me but (ping/jitter/packet loss);
Milton Keynes - 25/12/0%
Bursa, Turkey - 107/9/10%
Sydney - 365/8/could not determine
New York - 96/9/0%

Great if one could be available Fulvio

Similar to mine Al. Didn't know Virgin throttled though. No naughty downloads between 10 and 3 then, not that I would know about such things  :angel:

Even worse from 4-9pm Tim - just a 750Mb download limit on my 10Mb line before throttling kicks in! Any other Virgin Media users here might find their policy interesting as few of the ISP's go out of their way to advertise such things:

http://www.virginmedia.com/help/traffic-management.php (http://www.virginmedia.com/help/traffic-management.php)

Naturally all my downloading is scheduled to kick in at 9:01pm  ;)

Sorry digressing from the issue now but can I tap your knowledge.
Don't really download a lot aside from the odd GPL track but does streaming from i-player/4od and the like count if I'm not actually downloading it? Roughly how much would an hours worth use in Mb?

That's a really good point Tim - I forgot all about streaming vids. I must admit I'm no expert but a hour long programme from the i-Player is about 650Mb & I'm assuming when you watch a streamed video it is in effect downloading to a temp file somewhere. If that's the case - watching one of those between 4-9pm would put me right on the limit  ::)

Not sure about the other ISP's but when my connection has been throttled it becomes pretty awful - dropping from 10Mb to <2Mb on speedtest.

The Download, is what comes down your line, i.e ALL the data, it's not what you save on your H/D

iPlayer, Youtube, even if you don't download it directly, it still counts. Virgin Media are bastards in that respect, so yes it will hurt any throttling.

Yes, good points about ping and quality being more important.

I normally test to Maidenhead, I think that was the only one available to begin with so I just continued so I could compare past results. Just done the pingtest.

Result:Packet loss/ping/jitter 0%/32ms/4ms

Came up graded as A

I'm with Pipex, who are now part of Tiscali. When I went from 2megs to 8 megs I started to get frequent drop outs. They got a BT engineer to come out and he said it was the telephony interfering. The higher the speed the less stable the connection and the more prone to interference. He fitted a socket where the main BT line comes in that seperates my telephony from my Broadband and it has been fine ever since. My speed did slow down not long after the Tiscali take over but I complained and also did some googling. Seems like they were moving people on to a new system where they have their own equipment in BT exchanges. As ever in the communications industry there is a special abbreviation for it but I can't remember what it is! Anyway I kept at them and I don't know if they put me back on the BT equipment but it improved to the normal 5ish megs and it has been OK since then.

That would be LLU, aka Local Loop Unbundled. Makes it cheaper for the ISPs when they install their own gear in the exchanges, but also inherently less reliable than BT's gear, since it's often not capable of supporting a few hundred thousand connections to it, whereas BT's is.

I have checked and one of Team7 server is free on Sundays UKGPL Graduates calendar till Christmas for sure. Till now I have launched it on Vroc, but it has installed Igor too so I'll do some tests if it works good on Igor.
Ciao

Thanks Fulvio, that would be very helpful :)

You know such complicated stuff but don't wanna bother with gpl utilities? PLEASE!  ;D

Morning Hiristo

knowing how the engine works and getting the bonnet open are 2 different things

all academic my friend  ::)

Thanks for all the feedback on the ISP stuff gents, very helpful.  I've decided I need to do something about my ISP before we use UKGPL.4 again.  I'm certain it is down to them but I can't find the letter they sent me that detailed the changes they were going to make to my contract.  So I don't know if they have changed the equipment in the exchange.  All I can say is that I get a lot of web site timeouts these days, something I've never had until very recently and it coincides with the change to my contract.

It's likely they've broken the terms of the contract by not providing you with the service you expected. I'd up sticks and change. :)

Phil

My recent connection probs were traced to poor wiring within my house. My broadband had deteriorated noticably over the previous month. The BT engineers checked the line and said it was an internal fault. This was proved by connecting my router to the mian socket, the first one on the line when it enters the house, and may d/l rating went from 450 kps to 7300 kps !!  I traced the fault to a junction box between the socket I use for my router and the main socket. All the wires were connected when I first looked, but when I pulled the box off to look again one of the wires came loose !  This was the fault, and while it had maintained a connection, it had obviously been making a poor contact.  Remaking the contact, it is one of the connectors where you push the wire between two metal blades, solved the problems.

So if you are not using the main socket for your modem/router, then have a look at your own wiring first.