SimRacing.org.uk

UKGPL Season 18 - Inter-League Race - Rouen

From its opening in 1950, Rouen-Les-Essarts was recognized as one of Europe's finest circuits, with modern pits, a wide track, and spectator grandstands. The circuit (which ran on public roads) had a few medium straights, a cobbled hairpin turn (Nouveau Monde) at the southernmost tip, and a few blind corners through a wooded hillside. The appeal was greatly enhanced by the climb from Nouveau Monde at 56 metres to Gresil at 149 metres. Rouen hosted five Formula One French Grand Prix races, the last one in 1968 resulting in the tragic burning death of Jo Schlesser. The circuit continued to host major Formula 2 events until 1978, after which it was used for various French Championships. The circuit was closed down in 1994 due to economic and safety reasons. In 1999, following the circuit's closure, all evidence of area's racing past was demolished, including grandstands, pits, Armco and track signs. The cobbled Nouveau Monde hairpin was also asphalted but it is still possible to drive around on the original circuit configuration.

Our guests for this round are EOLC, they scored a comprehensive win over us last time at Watkins Glen (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=6521#event1745), dominating the podium, in fact taking the first six places.  UKGPL have got to do better this time!  Each league is to field nine cars, and there are no chassis handicaps, drivers will be racing to complete the distance and score points for their team.

Please be in IGOR UKGPL chatroom by 19:55 UK London time (19:55GMT), (You will need to set up a channel called #ukgpl if you haven't already done so)
Chat and Race passwords: see above (#post_event_password)

Server UKGPL_T7_2
IP address  62.149.202.168

Race date = 31-01-2010
Time = 20:00 UK London time (20:00GMT) - Please note this is 21:00CET
Track = Rouen
Variant = 67F1
Damage Model = PRO
Qually time = 35 minutes.
Race length = 30 laps (complete 27 laps to score points as a finisher)

Chassis assignments: (Captain to advise)

Brabham BT24 - TBD
BRM P83 - TBD
BRM P83 - TBD
Cooper T81B - TBD
Cooper T81B - TBD
Eagle T1G - TBD
Ferrari 312 - TBD
Honda RA300 - TBD
Lotus 49 - TBD


If you'd like to represent UKGPL in this race please post on the thread and advise what chassis you'd prefer.  Driver lists and points scored can be found on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=226&theme=6)

Please Note: The logistics involved in organizing an Inter League race are more complicated than for a regular league race.  Particularly when different time zones are involved.  Consequently the details above are liable to change.  Please will all drivers check this thread regularly to make sure they don't miss any important updates.

Available for this one too :)

Same team hopefully for this one. EOLC are the premier competition for our Interleague series, so top banana is needed, and crucially a finish. If you're not a regular and would like to participate, post here! :)

Lotus 49: Jethro Walters
Eagle Weslake: Tim Muttram
Ferrari 312: Clive Gardner (evilclive)
Brabham BT24: John Roberts
Honda RA300: Hristo Itchov
Cooper T81: Fulvio Policardi
Cooper T81: Al Heller
BRM P115: King Hiro
BRM P115: Bernie Darwin

Race starts at 2000 GMT. 8pm UK time. 30 minutes praccy. :)

brab fine by me

john

hmmmm yes.

I'll try and wrestle the Eagle into shape again, but I fear that I shall need near world record pace throughout this race, just to stay with these guys :-\.....................................and that is unlikely from me lol.


Still, at least there are 2 weeks to get some practice  ::)

Put me in as a possible (mobile chicane ) not tried the tank around rouen though I do like the track  :)

I quite enjoy the Eagle here Clive, so if you really don't want it we can swap  :)
I'm happy with the Fez otherwise (I think, havn't driven one here before)  ;)

If you both want to change cars, I'm sure that can be arranged. :)

OK with me Tim.

If you are more confident with the Eagle, you take it, and I will try the "red thing" as a novelty. It has been a long time since SHE allowed me a drive in a 67 fez   ;)  lol

Just checked EOLC's race thread.  They are well organized so the race is definitely on.  Get some practice in!  These guys are very fast and can boast World Record holders amongst their ranks.

They are an hour ahead so a few of their drivers have requested to start an hour earlier than the posted time of 21:00 GMT.  Unless any of our drivers have a major objection then I propose we move the start time to 20:00 GMT.

We will be using the T7 server so the connections should be first class ;D

2000GMT *should*, all things being well, be fine by me. Tim and evil, your cars are swapped, if you'd rather take Eagle/Fez, or even the Lotus, I'm happy to take the Eagle, BRM or Lotus. One big happy family. :)

Not trying to bring your spirits down, but because EOLC are mostly made up of aliens we don't have a realistic chance of beating them by outright speed. That's why please focus on finishing more than usual as we can hope they'd get more attrition than us and thus score less.

With that said, if I blew up in the Honda it's not my fault.  ;D

Wanna swap to the Lotus then? ;)

I'm happy with the BRM which frees up the exuberant Honda. :)

lol,

 Just tried the Ferrari for the first time in about a year last night for a few laps around Rouen. Started to work on a setup but I am way off any sort of pace and consistency. Best was around 1:56 on very low fuel and was not so much untidy, but an absolute shambles of a lap with no chance of surviving a whole race. The only thing positive is that if i can tidy it up and get that red thing under control there will be another couple of seconds ( at least) to be found for sure.

I am going to have to resort to d'loading some setups ( which is something I only do in extreme frustration!!) as a starting point at least.,
 ::) ::)

P.S. all donations gratefully recieved :angel:

The Fezza always has been a bit 'errant at the rear' I've found  ;D

I'm quite happy to stick with it if you'd rather the Eagle, I only mentioned I could take that as I enjoy it here - something to do with the engine note as you blast down the S/F straight  :angel:

It's OK Tim, you stick with the Eagle as I have had the pleasure of its company for the last few races.

 I WILL tame this Italian beast one way or another. Probably employing Waza technology  ;D to nail the rear end down ;D. At least I have a week to get to grips with it.  ;D

If I can get laptimes down to a steady 1:53 with race fuel, I think that will be as fast as I have ever managed at Rouen in any 67 chassis so I will be well satisfied.

Another couple of seconds would be close to or better than the WR!  ;D

My endeavours with the bastard of bourne are grim to say the least , the "best " ive got is a single 2m 03 sec lap to show for 2 hours grinding away, I cant get any consistant lap times together without adding to the already battered armco  ::)

Conclusion :

Waste of my talent attempting this race , I just cant see how I can complete 10 laps anywhere near the pace   ::)

As for 27 to qualify as a finisher ?  forget it , I dont have insurance for driving after sunset  :-\

please hand my seat to some other poor unfortunate sod  ;D

Noted Bernie, many thanks for trying anyway! :D

Just tried a PJ set up and swopped a few things around , after a lot of blood sweat and tears (mostly tears ) I finally improved to a blistering 2m02secs.

which shortcut do you guys use here    ::)

The one with the loud pedal? ::)

If you'd like, I can take the BRM and struggle that around, and you can have the sweet-as-a-nut Lotus.

Latest is now 2m01 !  prib shows poss 1.59 

If I can get to knock steady 59's out in race trim  I should be OK (actually i'll be freekin amazed) 

Will give it some more next week , so perhaps put me in for a number maker if no one faster or better looking fancies the chair  ;)

(that gives almost everyone a chance )

My Lotus PB isnt that good (1m57ish)   ::)

LOL

Does that mean you are going to take two of the plug leads off and saw half way through the main chassis tubes?

That should make it pretty much like a Honda!  ::)

If I resort to that ( and I don't rule out anything at this stage!! ::) ) , at least I will know what to expect in terms of handling.  ;)

Since I have had no objections to moving the start time, this race will now start at 20:00 UK time.  Race announcement has been updated.

Well, I can dream can't I   ::) ::) :devil:???

Update........

Red thing has been responding to intense Waza training methods and lap times are slowly improving.

Unfortunately, there is an unforeseen side effect, which is affecting the paint pigment, and it is taking on an embarrassing pink shade :-\

Things could be allwhite by next Sunday ::)

Interesting as my Honda has been changing color towards the red department because of all the knuckle elbow head-bang wrestling to get it turn around.  ::) I might be in need of transfusion by the end of the race.  ;D

I ve done some 1.59 s with the BRM (1.58.37 priluda) and I m available sunday night but only if Bernie doesn t want to drive. I think I ll be able to si steady 2.00 something but not more.
I m not sure if I m better looking than Bernie though..maybe if I xdress? :-*

We need two BRM victims err I mean drivers so there should be room for both you & Bernie, Tom. I reckon you'll have me for company as I've only managed a 58.9 in the Cooper so far.

Pity you if your worse looking than Bernie , as for the xdress,  I think the stilletos might be a bit of a handicap, though the padded bra could help in the event of accidents , punctures excepted  ::)

getting down to some serious BRM laps now with low 2m01's showing ,a 1. 59 seems a long way off,  but I hope to get some expert tuition before raceday which should help.

I find the BRM is a nice car to drive when you get  the hang , pity its such a slug . Not sure about fuel load for the race either I assume its 16 cylinders must be quite gas hungry .

My only hope is to complete the required number of laps in time to be classified as a finisher , so if one of you aliens out there happen to find himself way out in front , please dont lap me more than 3 times  :'(

 

 

Seem we both will be driving Bernie :). I don t think that one second I appear to be faster determine who does this race fastest Bernie, it s the one of us who can stay ontrack doing our pace the hole race. With a high coastside Diff to turn in easier in the bends my Beast is somewhat tricky to handle. Off course I can make it safer, but then I have to push more and thats equally dangerous unless I settle for slower pace ofc. Pushing towards same pace with "safer" car might easily make me go too wide and off track too.
Decisions decicions.
I ll skip the high heels ofc but I can still wear sexy lingerie  :winkiss:

What diffs you use, Bernie and Tom? I've found that a 85/60/5 or 85/45/5 works very well with the BRM, don't ask why. It's something Michiel Pompert came up with long ago and the car is stable yet nimble. Depends on your suspension settings too of course, but it usually works at most tracks. The alternative that I use, though usually for twistier tracks, is 60/60/2 or 60/60/3.

Hiristo , ive been using 45/60/1 I did try the Pompert's set ups a long time back but found them hard to control back then , maybe I should have another look .

I swithched between 85/60 5 and 85/45 5. also tried 60/60 but I just couldn t manage to drive well with a lower number on the power side.
Now I m testing out a 85/30 5 car and with 100/100 bars and 80/105 wr (much softer than the 120/140 rb and 90/100 wr I used with the other diffs)and actually manage to drive this faster..still testing and making small adjustments.

Using H's 60/60 with more clutches I can run steady low 2m02secs laps with full race fuel.
however the car is a real twitchy bitch on low fuel. So will probably brim the tank for this one  ::)

Not too worried about qually as anywhere on the back row will suit me fine , cassy start , steady drive and hope to pick up points . But still very worried that my pace wont be fast enough to get the required 27 laps in before darkness falls  ::)

Got all my mechanics working overtime this w/e  :)



 

I am beating this Fez into shape slowly, but still have a wierd and frustrating prob.

On the 2 slow speed corners ( and I mean SLOW) the rear end wants to slide around and spin the car almost in slow motion, but once it starts to slide there is just no stopping it. Its like there is an oil slick on the road. In high speed corners it sticks like glue???

I am not tramping on the gas, or trying to drift through these corners, but this effect is there every lap waiting to catch me out.  

I have tried a couple of adjustments to the diff but it seems to make little difference...any suggestions??

I can happily offer the services of the Glutbuckets to augment your pit crew if you are desperate Bernie?

It was doing that to me at the Donny race a few months back Clive - I didn't bother fixing it as it made the car more responsive on faster corners - you just have to adjust your driving in those sort of corners I found  :)

Must admit I didn't look into removing the trait so can't really help you in that regard!  ;D

Yes Tim, I am sort of "driving around" the prob at the moment, but in an ideal world I might find an answer  ;)

It does require a very cultured right foot to contain, but thats the bit that I am finding tricky  lol!!

Try softer rear rebound or stiffer front bump settings Evil. It should make the rear more stable when you lift up/brake.

IMHO using more clutches in the diff increases the Friction , a easier way to find the feeling you want would be to change the diff angles but keep the clutches the same .

lower angles should give more friction.

the more clutches you have the wider the range of friction in the diff (and the bigger the steps between each angle)

so a 60/60/3 will feel like a 70/70/5 but a 40/40/3 would feel like a 60/60/5 .

I'm sure others here will disagree with what I have just said and this is just my option nothing more .

john

I m at work atm so cant try it out. But I have a feeling that lower angle on powerside gives more poweroversteer than more clutches.Honestly I cant say more clutches gives me the feeling of poweroversteer at all..just ..different.more clutches feel like staying more solid with power on than less clutches but when the rear comes it comes more quick and without warning than few clutches. A lower angle gives  a noticeable poweroversteer.
I don t know if this is real or my imagination.Btw I feel a difference between stiffer wr and stiffer bars too:) ..in how much the cars sways from side to side for example with a tough turn in at curva grande.

Very briefly and from my limited knowledge , more clutches = a stronger link between the 2 rear wheels ,  Less clutches weaken the link.

more clutches = great for straight line acceleration ( try 5 clutches on a standing start at Monza ) but poor for accelerating out of corners , In a straight line the wheels would be practically locked together so even with one wheel missing nearly all drive will still be available to the opposite wheel .
more clutches also induce understeer , because if the back wheels are locked the car will not want to turn , it will (should) have a tendancy to go in a straight line (push as the Yanks call it )
but for drive out of corners the inside wheel needs to turn slower then the outside , thats where we have to reduce the link by using less clutches, giving better drive out of corners, at a cost of straight line speed on the stright bits .

Changing the power and coast ramp angles changes the drive characteristics of the diff , high numbers on the power side give a softer transfer of power to the wheels , low numbers giving a more agressive transfer . The opposite occurs on the coast side which effects the way the car slows with the power off or under braking .

In theory using 5 clutches should make the BRM understeer for England but somehow it doesnt seem to have much effect .

in the end its how you drive that counts , you set the transmission to how it works best for your style of driving , the permutations are almost endless ,what works for me , wont neccasarily work for you , just look at any 3 or 4 different drivers set ups and see how much they vary.

Hristo for e.g. owns world records , but I cant hardly drive a single lap at speed with his set ups and I can say the same for many other aliens whose set ups I have tried.





 

it's not just the number of clutches but the angle with it that make the friction in the diff , try both 85/5 and 30/5 and tell me it's just clutches .

john

Cheers John , I think we all know what a complex subject the final drive is ,there are whole books written on the very subject ,not really possible to decribe the workings fully in a few lines of text

I'm sure its pretty hard to grasp fully for a lot of people (including me) and even a complex knowledge of differentials doesn't gaurantee we can turn theory into practise .

In my case its simple enough though , its called "suck it and see "  

Really the above is my own meagre way of explaining things,  in the hope it may help someone understand better the GPL model and perhaps gain from the knowledge .

 ::) ::) ::)

back to the practise


I did a 9 lapper on line pu race tonight and was suprised to have run out of fuel halfway round the last lap with 11 laps of fuel at the startline .  :-\ :-\ :-\

The reason BRM works with a lot more clutches than the other cars is unknown to me. It just handles differently than all other chassis and while I also prefer 1 or 2 clutches with them, 5 or even 6 work well with the BRM. Go figure...

Got 1:58 on high fuel. How long I can keep the car on the straight and narrow is for another bet!

How much gas will the BRM need for 30 laps ? seems to be a heavy drinker  ::)

Usually it's 1.3-1.4x

Hristo? do you have any idea about Fezza fuel consumption?

There's a chart that outlines the consumption rates for all the cars, but I cannot remember where it is.

I'd say same as BRM, 1.3-1.4x. Depends on the track though.

Jethro

I see you have a full team :).  I'll be around to start the server and be a reserve if someone can't make it.

Haha, I know. Novelty, ain't it? Yay for organisation! ;D

Reminder: race is at 8pm GMT (2000 GMT).

is that 1.5 x Laps = fuel for 45 laps ?

or 1.5 x fuel for 30 laps = ermmm! errrrr! ermmm!  , hang on !

Yes, i.e. 1.4 x Laps = fuel laps. I don't rely on liters/gallons much, though you can get a precise estimate from those.

I filled for 27 laps and had 0.5 gal left after 30 laps.

how many s/r's did you use ? :-X

Don't forget guys, 8pm start tonight. ;)

I did knock a 1:57 out of the Lotus on race fuel somehow. :D

I am going to be a bit late to the party tonight, so I hope everybody turns up. I'll be there by the end of practice, with enough time to get a decent time in on low fuel. :)

Had just fought myself upto 7th past EOLC's 2nd BRM when the engine blew  :(

Headers apparently, but going by all the shiney bits flying about I think a bit more may have gone!  ;D

(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j5/FMGasket/Misc/headers.jpg)

b*****r, b*******r b*ll*ocks???$$$%%&&**!!!!***

After running in 3rd for most of the race I had just lost my defensive battle with the Eagle as we crossed the line and with 2 laps to go I screwed up and clipped the kerb at T1, after that I was a passenger and it was all over. :-\ :hang:

sorry guys, it would have given us a few more points :-\ :-X

I echo evilclive's sentiments, except my collision was with Hristo. When he was behind me, and not that far behind me, I got a slide on the exit of T2 and was just setting myself up for the rebound in Six Freres when Hristo appeared to dive for the gap on the inside. Not quite sure what he thought he was doing, but suffice to say, the resulting collision took us both out of our positions. It ripped a wheel off his Honda, but he kept going. I vaulted the barrier and couldn't find a way out with my broken engine. I'd finished enough laps to be counted, but was just a bit annoyed that I'd survived 29 horrifically-laggy laps to be nuked on the last!

Congrats to EOLC, I made that another comprehensive win, mostly thanks to Jens Kraft dominating the race proceedings. First 6 places in the end. Don't think the result would have changed had me, Hristo and evil finished higher up TBH.

Dive? Don't be ridiculous, you lost it and slid back to the inside and I couldn't avoid contact despite trying. It wasn't an attack or anything, I was just following my line.

I have no idea why, but my Honda is not acting like one. The engine in this and the last Graduates Monza race can hardly heat up, even when I totally use up all the revs. The highest I could get was 109C. I suspect something wrong with the long-track distance patch, I have to try running Gem or something. The handling is weird too, the tires go to insane temperatures and the car is not possible to control anymore, the slightest input would make it slide.

I had a good Qualifying and a proper start of the race, but once the tires overheated so much, it became nearly impossible to keep the car on the road without slowing down a lot (which I didn't want to do). I tried as much as I can but gradually dropped back with numerous mistakes. Eventually I had a chance to regain 3rd from Evil and one of the opponents, but a few more mistakes and that chance disappeared as well.

Then the incident with Jethro which left me cruising with 3 wheels, but at least I brought it to the finish. :P

Grats to the opponents who deserve their win.

-=Hristo=-

Congratulations to EOLC, convincing winners (again!!) 114 to 54. 

From the posts it looks like it might have been a bit closer had UKGPL not had some "bad luck" in the last couple of laps.

Server replay available in normal place (http://www.jamesonline.net/ukgpl/2010.01.31_Inter_EOLC_Rouen/).

We were mullered (again!)  :o

Looks like my engine cost me at least a potential 5th, and going by the history graph thing of my laps I was rapidly gaining on Jethro and one of the EOLC car's ahead aswell  :(

Ah well, I don't blow engines often so at least I choose important moments to do so  :ninja:


Well done to John as highest UKGPL finisher, and to everyone else who scored  :)

The steaming frustration and sheer annoyance of screwing up last night have subsided this morning and I feel there were at least a few positives to take from last nights race.

Other than Jens and his blistering pace, I was at least competitive and holding the 3rd and gap to the guy in 2nd spot for the majority of the race, without driving "on the limit" in a car that I had finally tamed.
Hristo, despite apparently having some probs with his Honda was still at the upper end of the leaderboard and Jethro had recovered to a reasonable points scoring position too in the frail Lotus
John, as always, delivered a finish and I think up until the last lap only Tim had had the misfortune to blow his engine and was our only retirement.
Fulvio brought his car home safely and Al, King Hiro and Bernie were all there at the finish and deserve a medal too.

Are we learning? or getting better?  ......maybe, but I was more impressed with the fact that for 99% of the race we were not totally outclassed. The debacle of the last 2 laps which started with my stupid mistake was the stuff of nightmares lol, but EOLC were the faster team and deserved their win...again.
I guess we live and learn?

My performance was crap to say the least , having hours to practise with the BRM, and with some superb advice from Hiristo, I had finally got into the 1m59 bracket .

Cme race night I just couldn't get in the right frame of mind , I had trouble joining the server again " thank you AVG "  >:(
practise went to plan , quallied in last place , but then couldnt remember for the life of me which of the 64 "BRM Rouen" set ups I had was "the" one to use, qually was over , the grid was forming up , panick set in I clicked on a BD ruoen pracky set up , pumped the roll bars up and started the race with what felt like the worst set up in the world (actually it was great going down hill but shite getting out of slow corners , I was losing miles on those long uphill straights .

I did take consolation from being able to personally meet every other racer on the track at least twice, almost taking the leader off on one occasion (not my fault yer honour) and being able to stop and admire the scenery on at least 3 occasions .

After the dust had settled I looked at the set ups folder and found one with the promising title of ................


"UKGPL RACE"   ::) ::)  ::)

   

I think evilclive's summed that up pretty well. We kept EOLC honest, if not in the reliability stakes. It did fall apart spectacularly for us in the last 10 miles though! ;D

Anybody got a lap chart for lap 26 or 27, i.e. before evil's retirement?

My primary aim was just to get to the end & score some team points - was pleased to do that as I still find Rouen a rather tricky circuit. Thought I was doing OK in the Cooper until I got lapped towards the end of the race by EOLC's Cooper :P. Felt rather slow after that! Still, on the bright side, as a team we did manage a better finishing record compared to the other interleague races I've taken part in. Was disappointed to see Clive drop out of a podium place right at the end though - bad luck. Anyway congratulations to EOLC for a dominant win - was also impressed with JR's recovery drive considering I saw him offtrack & in last place on lap 1.

the replay starts from lap 12 , is the replay length on the server set right ?

having said that it might have been better for us if the last two laps had been lost , with our cars spinning out and crashing on there own and rather oddly what appears to be fighting each other .

hopefully in the next race more of us can finish and that Bernie and Al don't lose heart being at the tail end because quite often in these interleague races that's where most of the racing happens , also we were against one of the fastest leagues that we race .

john

In core.ini server replay is set to 128 mB, the race replay is 60 Mb so I think that Phil has overwritten the setting on Igor ;)

Ciao

Yes sorry gents my mistake.  We have always set the replay override to 60Mb see para 4 (https://www.ukgpl.com/index.php/moderating/igor).

Looks like we'll have to change that.  Mind you 128Mb - that is some replay!

Your right about the last few laps being action packed , just looked at my replay , lap 28 was almost the end for race leader Jens , I was recovering from another grass cutting trip when he came barrelling around the bend on full chat and god knows how he missed me , but he did. Shortly after this incedent his ferrari engine went terminal , he coasted to a crawl over the finish line .

wouldnt like to think I was the cause of the damage  ::)

Thanks for these kind words John.

I have found it a pleasure to race to you all.
A miracle I finished in a Lotus, and recovering from misstakes.
Like last year I was battling John (at the end of the race).

Looking forward to next event!

Thanks for the race, and Good luck to All.

T7 server is set with Effects On so the replay is bigger, plus there were a full field on track for almost all the race. I suggest to leave as set in core.ini
Ciao

Thanks Fulvio, I wondered why the replay was so big.  I'll make sure I leave the "Replay memory override" option unchecked next time I start the server ;)