SimRacing.org.uk

Car: Skip Barber Formula 2000
Track: Silverstone GP

Practice: 18:00 for 135 mins (approx)
Qualifying: 20:15 (15 mins)
Race: 20:30 (EDIT 20 18 laps, approx 40 mins)

Start: standing
1 'fast tow' (reset) available for each driver (available by pressing SHIFT+R by default)

NOTE: All sessions protected by the main password.

A couple of notes re. Blue Flags during qualifying and race where they differ from GTR2;

Blue Flags during qualifying - if you see a blue flag during qualifying it will be on your outlap and the driver approaching is on a hotlap. Please take this into account and act accordingly. The driver behind does not know you are on an outlap so no rash moves out of the way please :) Usual SRouk rules / guidelines should be applied.

Blue Flags during the race -  if you see a blue flag during the race it means the driver approaching is about to lap you. Please take this into account and act accordingly. It differs from GTR2 in that you will not be penalised for not allowing the lapping driver to pass within a certain period. The flag is informational only. Usual SRouk rules / guidelines should be applied.

The 20 laps is an estimate, I'm guessing the Skip will be doing 2 min plus lap times around here?

If someone could confirm approx. lap times I'd appreciate it.

heh, skips at silverstone will feel like flies on a pond !...its a big ol track for these little cars. :P

Not had a chance to race at Silvers in IR yet despite owning the track for a year, so should be fun (problems permitting).

Just did a couple of laps in the skip here. Its surprisingly good fun in the skippy. Nice wide track lets you attack the corners using different lines. A few butt-clenching flat out corners in the tail happy skip  :o

2:18's so guess the fast guys will be doing 2:10s. Am sure i will take seconds off that with more laps. Only did 3.
The quick guys will really leave the rest of us trailing at this track i think.

Cheers MJ, I've knocked a couple of laps off the race distance :)

Any chance of more (or unlimited) fast tow/repairs in these races or is there a specific reason for only allowing 1?

TBH Ross, I'd rather disallow fast tows altogether as happens in the higher official iRacing series. The thinking is to discourage any contact whatsoever, especially in the Skip, one touch and you can be finished.

There's a pretty wide range of experience with iRacing this season though so allowing one reset seems like a reasonable compromise while people get used to racing these cars.

That said, fast tows are only helpful to get you back on track, you still lose a chunk of time if you use them, 'fast' is a somewhat inaccurate description!.

Yeah I know where you're coming from, but given that al the SROU drivers (as far as I can see) definitely aren't 'in it to bin it' and it really ought to be the driving standards rules that encourage drivers to behave, it simply seems to punish those that are unfortunate enough to have virtually any kind of contact.

If you can assume that everyone taking part is going to be as careful as is reasonably possible, isn't the loss of time in the race a punishment enough?

Even with 1 allowable tow, it's very frustrating when you've done a load of practice and then a seemingly minor tap forces you to retire from the race completely.  Also in the Lime Rock race the other night, I didn't get even 1 repair (I think perhaps this was due to the disco that seemed to affect me and Spanner at the same time).

It's no biggy at all, but wherever possible, I'd like to finish any race I start even if it's not at the front of the grid.

Of course, I completely agree that if allowing more or unlimited resets caused us all to drive like we were in bumper cars then your view would be completely correct ;)  I'm just not sure that would be the case though.

Cheers, Ross.

I understand what you are saying Ross but I'm still in 2 minds what the best thing to do is...

I agree that no-one is driving in an overly aggressive or reckless way however, I think we're still getting too much contact. Some of this is inexperience, some is down to the tracks (short tracks like Summit and Lime Rock) get pretty crowded with 20+ driver on them.

I just wonder if having no resets would really concentrate the mind on avoiding contact? These aren't GT cars, 'rubbing' just isn't possible.

I'd be interested to know what everyone thinks of this, I'll chance the rules as appropriate for S2.

I'd say keep the tows. The main problem is that the cars are challenging and people make mistakes. If we had lots of people doing silly things then fair enough, but this isn't the case. The penalty for a tow is big enough. Anyone who ignores that would probably just accept the risk of being out of the race too.

Only trouble is that this 'incentive' also punishes any innocent parties in a multi-car collision.

Within SROU drivers, I'm just not sure the lack of resets really makes any differenceto the quality of driving (I do still see myself as a noob here so forgive me if my assumption is incorrect) - I don't think anyone on here actually wants to be in a prang of any kind, but inevitabily if and when it does happen it's pretty much end of play.

Realistic perhaps, but fun?

Cheers, Ross.

Woops, sorry, my post above was in response to Pop's previous one, not Pauls.

I'd be happy to get rid of resets. I'm a true believer in the harder you make the damage model the more safely people drive. I remember years and years ago in GPL when we went from a lower damage model to the pro damage model and it made people a lot more wary of making contact and the racing was more incident free.

I was actually quite glad when they got rid of them from most of the official series. When you have one reset you feel obliged to keep plugging away even though you're one or two laps down and with no hope of a good result. Once they took them away, if you were unlucky and got taken out or made a fatal mistake, that was it, you could walk away.

???
For the exact reasoning Dave has given, I'd be in favour of adding an extra reset!
I'm in favour of drivers finishing a race if possible.

There's finishing a race, and then there's tooling round 7 laps down and just getting in the way.

Don't be so hard on yourself!! We don't mind you getting in our way Dave... :)     :lol:

So its win or bust then? ;)

No, it's finish or bust. As opposed to bust bust bust finish badly, which is the worst of both worlds.

Not quite skippys but certainly gets your racing juices going for a race here !

http://www.youtube.com/user/anconablue72#p/a/f/1/pRFTSxbGD0A
 8)
and if you want to see it to the end

http://www.youtube.com/user/anconablue72#p/a/f/1/pRFTSxbGD0A

I'd rather drivers didn't finish if they need multiple resets to complete a race. If you are taken out by someone else, that's unfortunate but those people soon either stop it themselves because it's ruining their races too or in a league situation get banned or suspended (one of the reasons I hate public racing and love league racing to weedle these people out). Standard of driving is nothing to do with speed, it's to do with driving safely, within your limits, not falling off, not crashing and being courteous.

There was a night and day change in people's attitudes in GPL when we went to the Pro damage model and I truely believe the worse the outcome the less likely people are to make contact and the less likely they are to push themselves outside of their own limits.

It's all to evident to me that in the PnG and GTL races that because you can hit people and not damage the car particularly easily, "rubbing" is accepted and the odd whack is "probably ok".

Now that is a fair comment.
Like I went on to say, one or maybe two resets would be my personal preference.

p.s. Nothing wrong with a little light 'rubbin' in cars that are able to take a little 'rubbin' with nobody suffering... but obviously skippy's don't fit in that group  ;).

Any idea if there will be a practice session tonight?

I have started a session.

Usual Password

Thanks for hosting Simmo :)

I only managed a few laps on this combo after my Dallara race last night, fair to say I have some work to do!  :P

Can't make it tonight, going out, enjoy.

Not sure if I'm racing tonight or not as yet.

My frustration levels are running high at the moment!

I guess Brendan is out with PC problems, Paul Richards is obviously knee deep in sick and dirty nappies whilst Paul968 already has the titled wrapped up.

I will see how I feel later.

It's also my night shift week tonight so if I did race I would need to be away as soon as the race ends and have to make sure it ends quick too!

My PC's not up to Silverstone unfortunately - bit of a shame as I've been really enjoying the Watkins sessions in the Skippy for the last week but not to worry...hopefully next time.

Server is up and I'm on my own if anyone wants to come play.

What lap times are you guys running?

Oh well, got a great start after qualifying behind fellow team mate Dave Gymer, got a great start and beat Dave into Maggots (turn 2), then went around outside Stowe corner to get the inside line for Club, which I got another place, only to lose it going into Abbey by breaking too late, I then got going again in 16th got up to 12th again after 2 laps, with others falling off and 2 nice passing moves, only for Pc screen to go blank:/

blimey, my pc actually held out the whole race distance  :)

Joined praccy early hoping to get a good practise session in as hardly done any laps, but the usual hardware probs and then dinner robbed me of the rest.

Started back of the grid and was content to just get some laps in following the pack. Soon found myself in giddy heights of 10th and stayed there for a few laps until a long slow spin at T1...i stupidly lifted and so back came around mid corner  ::)
Stayed out of everyones way as they came back after their offs and finished last-ish.

Ran my system on class 5 for the race, seemed to do the trick, tho the graphics look one step above Geoff crammonds F1  ;D

Pretty quiet race all in all, solid start, passed 2 spinners/goer-offers and then I was watching TT dissapear up the road.  Big gaps to the cars behind .... suddenly got much smaller after a spin.  That gave Simmo a chance to get close, and a small mistake let him past.  Can't complain with the result, good racing.

That's me at work now.

Not sure what to say about my performance.

I never felt at ease throughout practice.

Once quali started and I started getting excitied things started to happen. Neither myself or Paul managed to repeat practice pace but my time was good enough for pole.

Paul gave a good chase for about the first 8 laps. He was using the draft to pull up on the straights and twice he was able to have little looks.

I felt really good and was beginning to flow and under pressure I did not feel I was going to make a mistake.

Then Paul dropped right off. Without the benefit of watching the replay and I'm not sure what happened.

Not sure what happened to me next but I completely switched off and lost concentration. I was making error after error for no reason and I was more than frustrated.

I had a big spin out of T1 and Paul went passed.

The Skip is so slow at getting back up to speed, Darren came charging in hard and we arrived at the next bend really close together but travelling at different speeds.

It was a horrible position to be in and I don't think it could be viewed as a bad rejoin since I had travelled 500 yards before Darren caught.

I stayed over to the right and thought he was going to try and go around me but he backed out.

The next again lap I went off again and dropped behind Darren and Gary. I also got a black flag warning and had to back off.

I was fuming with myself.

Made a few more stupid mistakes before I regained focus and pulled in Gary and Darren but too late to have any chance of passing.

Week 13 can't come fast enough for me to have a little break.

Grats Paul, Darren and Gary.

I would like to Apologize to Ian Mabbott.  I was a bit eager and ruined your race.  Sorry.

A few laps later made a mistake into T1, and then made several more after that trying to push to hard.

Not a great way to finish the season,  but I am looking forward to Season 2.

Ian

Never quite got into a comfortable rhythm in qually, having done no practice at all before 7pm today. Was also the first race I've done on the new box, new seat, new headphones et al so it all felt a bit alien.

Got a ropey start and let Burtmacher through – wasn't too worried as I figured he'd soon fall off and I wasn't wrong. But once the race was underway properly I started to settle in and the lap times started to drop. Running 5th I had a good view of the battle between Paul and Brian, and after a few laps Gary and Darren were starting to pull away.

I soon had my mirror full of TT though, and he was clearly quicker. I had to defend rigourously for a few laps, including a number of side by side runs into Stowe and Vale Corner ;D and I kept varying my lines and braking points to keep him guessing. Fortunately a few laps from the end he made a tiny error in Maggots and that was enough to give me a couple of clear laps at the end, and I used the extra breathing room to get a PB on the final lap. :)

Didn't really expect to enjoy the Skippy at such a fast and open track but it worked pretty well I thought. :yes:

p.s. Nice to see Team Shark has snatched 2nd in the team championship from the Leg Ends. ;D

Nice to finish on a high, but a shame the battle with Brian ended early. Dinner and kids got in the way of pre-qual practice, so I couldn't quite get in the groove to take pole. It wasn't a problem though as the title was safe, so I could afford to race just for fun. Brian and I had a great little battle for 8 laps or so, and like him I felt really good in the car. He looked like he was trying harder and making a few mistakes, but maybe that was my imagination  ;) I twice had a chance to overatake into stowe but didn't want to go too deep and he kept the place round the outside. I knew (or thought so) that I'd get another chance, and then I could be more aggressive. Trouble was, I then spun unexpectedly at brooklands - still don't know why, but it dropped me back 6 seconds. I kept 2nd ahead of Darren and gradually started to close in on Brian, but time was going to beat me. When he span at T1 the tables were turned though and I could ease off a touch and cruise to the finish.

Well done to Darren and Gary on the podium places. Gary definitely deserved a bit of good luck. Grats to Brendan for taking 2nd in the championship and all the other Kerbies for the team title. Finally, thanks to Iain (Pops) for setting it all up. Looking forward to next season now  :)

My driving style in the Skip is usually more sideways than most.

Without the benefit of lap times I don't recall any errors of note up to lap 9, then suddenly I did notice laps falling from low 11s to 13s as I made a complete hash of things.

I was trying to get you out my draft as there is too much to gain.

I did leave the door wide open for you to try and make the pass stick. Surprised you did pull out given the invitation.

My driving has gone to pot at the moment (Check out my SR at present)some of my own doing but it did not help on Monday when I was hit 6 times in the one Radical race.

Shame both our mistakes split up what would have been a good fight.

As per our practice, qualifying and race pace there was little in it.

Was the fastest race lap done under draft or a clear lap?

It was a case of lots of uncharacteristic mistakes once the race should have been safe, but likewise you will call that about your spin.

It's just a shame with the rotten shifts I work I can't race on a regular basis. The way things are in here I might be able to race 24/7 soon though.

Overall the first season must be viewed as a success. I did not think race numbers would be so high.

Driving standards did improve as we went along with lots of new drivers learning, but also people are getting quicker all the time.

Well done to all championship winners and to those who have raced.

Also to those who have made things work too.

The fastest lap was in the draft, but if you look at the lap, the places I gained most where on the exits (copse,beckets, abbey). I think I lost more time backing off on entry because your car was in the way than I gained from the draft to be honest - it isn't that important in the skippy anyway. I didn't force the pass because it was early in the race and I wanted to feel what was possible from that position (offline on the inside). It was clear from my first 2 trys that there was quite a bit more I could take if necessary.

Anyway, good fun while it lasted :)

I would have to disagree about the draft though.

I did not think you were close enough on most laps to worry about backing off.

According to my time you were never closer than 0.3 on exit of T1 and a few times even though I made a good exit on to the straight 0.3-0.4 would be cut off my advantage on the straight.

I was able to do low 11s in race spec with no assistance, so I was not hanging about.

Most races so far this season the fastest lap of the night is set by the car who has been in 2nd position drafting the leader.

Even though the Skip only uses a little fuel the jump between 1.7 gallons to 3.8 is worth a few tenths and yet race times are quicker.

At Watkins Glen last week the opinion was the draft was good for up to about 1 second a lap.

Paul Richards also raised the gains possible at Summit Point.

In my opinion even though the skip is slow, draft is still very important and beneficial.

Just a quick glance at the lap times would suggest the draft did improve your lap times.

Your quickest laps came when on my tail early in the race whilst heavier.

On your own whilst trying to catch your laps were between 0.4 to 0.6sec slower. 2.11.346 the best with 2.11.5s the normal.

As you can see from my laps consistency and errors was a real issue.

There is a number of very low 11s without draft followed by 12s and 13s which is poor.

Well a better race for me today although I'm a little cross with myself as I ran wide at the first corner a couple of times.

Could not reproduce my pace of yesterday in practice or qually so was a little lower on the grid than I'd hoped. Stuart has a stunning last lap in qually for an 11.3, well done.

For once made an excellent start and mugged Dan for fourth and capitalised on Stuarts T1 mistake to be running third which was fine but I made a mess of the becketts sequence on lap 2 and was a sitting duck for Dan down Hangar straight. I plonked myself in the middle of the track and did not move and just concentrated on tucking in behind him at the end without losing another place.

One of the offs at T1 let Darren past and a few laps later Dan spun so the two of us were running third and fourth. I dropped back a bit with another wide moment at T1 and then had to work hard to try to close the gap. This was accomplished with a little help from Brian and then Darren and I had a nice scrap for a few laps. Nothing to be done though as our pace was pretty even,  I was quicker through the start of the complex but a little slower on the exit. Nice race Darren I enjoyed it.

I was a little worried that Brian might catch me but although he closed the gap down he ran out of time, you are right though you are very sideways in places, I caught sight of you in the mirrors a couple of times!

I'm pleased to have finished a race with a decent result and I having a decent run was nice as I've been very rusty this season.

Thanks to all who organised, more of the same next season:-)

Regards
Gary

Grats pody and too bad PaulR couldn't make it. :( Nothing for the poor 4th guy, as usual - sorry Freq. ;) Seriously though, well done to all finishers. :)
Had my best race so far, I think. Mostly 'cause DG kept me motivated. Kept close but could never muster enough courage speed to safely overtake. Probably would in GTR2 but a contact in Skip is all bad for the car. Motivation showes in laptimes, I improved my pb by 2 seconds. ;D Thanks Dave, could never do it on my own. :) Also, I think it was my first iRace without a spin. :P Oh, almost forgot: it was scarry at times as DG disapeared for more than one second while somewhere uncomfortably close. :o It didn't appear laggy, just "blink" and gone. Then apeared again. I'm glad we didn't make contact during this. :sweatdrop:

The season was ... educating, thanks Pops. :) Still, iR lacks several things in the way of quality racing. The cars are too fragile for my taste and until repairs in pitstops are done it will never be a real sim. Even in one seater real races contacts don't always damage the car as much here. :( Fast tow is not really an option for me and I'll probably not use it at all as it just makes me unhappy and mad to sit in the pit like a sad geezer. >:( Until these and other things are fixed GTR2 will still be my number 1 and iR a supplementing fun Tuesday racing game. Sorry Pops. :-\

Looking forward to season 2. :)

Yeah, my connection's turned to rat poo at the moment :( and at one point last night I was saying "please don't disco please don't disco please don't disco" over TeamSpeak - was might relieved to hear Picnic reply which meant it hadn't dropped completely.

I'm not suggesting it makes not difference, but just not that much. The lap in question I am several miles per hour quicker than you when I am at the apex and you are several car lengths ahead (when you should be faster as should have been on the power earlier). This is the main reason I am right on your exhaust into maggots, where I am close enough to have to back off early to avoid overcommitting - you gain several car lengths as a result. At chapel I am 1 mile per hour faster at the apex which certainly helps me gain down the straight but I don't gain that much and again I back off at stowe giving you all that I gained back again. I know this was happening because I was conscious of doing it to prevent running into you if you had a moment mid corner. The only other place is after club, where I gain nothing. I think there is a phsycological effect when you are chasing another car closely, as you know how hard to push. You are right, the draft does help (and it certainly did at VIR where Paul towed me down the very long back straight) but there were other factors at play in the quick lap last night. Later in the race I knew that driving flat out wouldn't catch you in time anyway, so there was little point in driving at 100%.

Wasnt really expecting to do this race and was still trying to get GTL to work right up until the last moment so only joined at the end of practise.

Having only done a few laps the day before was expecting to be in the 15's so surprised my self by just getting in the 13's in qual. However I was just too nervous in the first few laps running with everyone, I dont actually get time to do much on iR and the races tend to spread out quickly so sorry about that.
Later on was happy to sit behind Pops as there was now way of getting past but going through that corner after Bridge it looked like I was gaining a bit too quickly and stupidly lifted slightly spinning me out.

Also sorry to Simmo, though i was expecting you to go past quicker than that and i ended up running out of road.

Thanks for the first season guys, its been an eyeopener! It feels like i've gone back right to the beggining and am having to learn it all again! i suppose thats what you get for getting too comfortable in GTR2 land

I was a bit dubious whether Silverstone GP would be decent for racing the Skip but I think it turned out OK.

I'd had virtually no practice for this one, I didn't have anything to go for in the standings and the week had practice time been taken up trying to haul the Dallara around hell Mosport.

Thanks to Darrens set-up I got a vaguely decent time in qualifying and gained a few places at the start but that left a few slightly faster guys behind me and I knew I would struggle to keep them at bay.

On lap 2 Ian got a bit close and rear-ended me spinning me around putting me to the back, no problem Ian, just a misjudgement, I don't think my final position was really affected.

Got places back as peopel span. MJ ruined my chance of a sweet overtaking opportunity by spinning out of T1 :D

Spanner kept me honest for a while but also unfortunately span.

Not sure if I'll race the Skip next season, after all this time in iRacing I still can't extract any kind of decent performance out of the codding thing. Finishing down the field wouldn't normally bother me but I'm getting uncharacteristically frustrated with the car and not really enjoying it.

Thanks to everyone who took part this season, I think it's been a good season, even with the track limitations in place, next season will be better.


I understand where you are coming from TT. I hope you stick with iRacing because it's going to continue to improve and all that stuff you want will be there eventually. In the meantime, I hope it offers that single seater racing (at a minimum) that you can't get anywhere else  8)

Sounds like a good race last night. I wasn't able to get online till quite late on. Had to settle for some fun in a Skippy race at Mosport. Seems to be a very good track for that car for a "driver" of my talents. Not once did the back end come round on me I don't think, but some great feeling turns for the car. Straight was a bit long, but in company that doesn't matter, adds to the suspense :D

Started 11th (from 11) & finished 5th. Not bad I thought... just don't go looking up the strength of field :angel:

I'm in Pops. :)
About getting there (somewhere) eventualy - I heard this several thousand times in my youth in YU, so spare me...  :P

Sorry I didn't make the race last night. With the wife out I was responsible for entertaining the children.  :fencing:

Thanks to Pops and the rest of the organisers for a good first season. I really enjoyed the first three races in particular.

Looking forward to trying some new tracks in S2.