SimRacing.org.uk

UKGPL Season 18 (2009) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Round 10 - Monza

The final round of the Trophy is at Monza, the cathedral of motorsport.  Built in Villa Reale park north of Monza and officially opened on 3 September 1922. The 1933 race was marked by the deaths of three drivers and the Grand Prix layout was changed, with two chicanes added and the longer straights removed. The first grand prix after WW2 was held on 17 October 1948. The high speed bank‌ing was added in 1954. 1961 had a fatal accident, with Wolfgang von Trips and fourteen spectators dying near the Parabolica. Despite the fact that the bankings were not involved in that accident, F1 never raced on the oval again (except in the film Grand Prix made in 1966). The 1000 km Monza staged the last event on the banking in 1969. Various 'safety' measures were introduced in subsequent years with additional chicanes and run off areas.

Drivers should be especially careful on lap 1 as usual but especially under braking with cold tyres at the Lesmos and please keep to your own side of the track through the Curva Grande unless you are sure there is no one along side.

Reserve drivers should not join until there are only 30 mins of qualifying left.  However, all drivers should not go on track until there is 30 minutes of qualifying left.  This helps all drivers join the server successfully.  Please restrict chat to pit messages.

Please be in the IGOR UKGPL chatroom by 8:55 p.m.
(You will need to set up a channel called #ukgpl if you haven't already done so)
IGOR and Race passwords: see above (#post_event_password)

Server = 5UKGPL
IP Address = TBC (ping myjamesonline.net)
Race Date = 26-01-2010
Time = 21:00
Track = Monza
Variant = 65F1
Damage Model = PRO
Qually Time = 30 minutes.
Race Length = 50% Grand Prix

Password: see above (#post_event_password)

Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R;group=222;theme=6)

Chassis allocations are below, and the same chassis will be used for all races this season unless there is an adjustment agreed by the moderator.  Good luck!

FULL TIME DRIVERS
Hristo Itchov - BT7
Evil Clive - Honda
Ken Murray - BT11
John Roberts - BT11
Samb - BRM
FullMetalGasket - Honda
MikeBeattie - Cooper
FPolicardi - BT11
TurkeyMachine - BT11
JamesRye - BRM
Natan - BRM
Miner2049er - Lotus
Clutch - BT11
Podkreceny - Lotus
Ruud Savelkoul - Lotus

RESERVE DRIVERS
Phil Thornton - Ferrari
Steve B_1_rd - Ferrari
Asbjeurn - Ferrari
KingHiro - BRM

Please use the updated 65 mod for this race.
If you have re-installed UKGPL over the summer break or are joining us for the first time, please don't forget to use the updated 65 mod which is available here: Jamesonline.net/UKGPL (http://www.jamesonline.net/ukgpl/1965mod_PATCH_v2.0.2_Setup.zip)

Well that was one of the best UKGPL races that I've ever been involved in.

Got a poor start after a seasons best qualy effort, but reclaimed 4th on lap one, only to be involved in a racing incident with Tim Muttram who went on to take early lead. I recovered in second from last place and just started to go as fast as I could.

Tim must have had an accident because I passed him as he was recovering and for the next eternity of laps (10 at least) we battled until we came to catch the pack. I think that every possible overtaking place was exploited by each of us and sometimes we were neck and neck through multiple corners. At one point we were 3 abreast going into the last turn (and I made it past two cars on the inside line).

It wouldn't get any better than that for me though as I lost it trying too hard to keep up with Tim's car. If it weren't for the slipstream effect being so strong then the he would have broken away a lot faster. I got dispirited and spun again into retirement.

Massive respect to Tim Muttram for racing fairly with me for many laps and reading some of the telegraphed lunges that I made. I hope you feel that I raced fairly as well and thanks.

To summarise my opinion on racing in the amateurs league, I find it hard to concentrate for such long race distances. My speed is OK, but I make mistakes trying too hard. If I had some advice to others it would be to take it easy on the twisty circuits in the opening laps. I was rear ended many times as I was being cautious in the early laps (maybe I'm partly to blame for not being on the limit all the time?). Oh...and I think all races should be held at Monza  ;)

Jim

Squeezed by a Honda at Curva Grande, sent me into the barrier, 3 wheeled Brabhams aren't as good as the 4 wheeled versions!

Had an alright qualy blighted by connection problems. My bars were up and down more than a prostitute, and it just about stabilised by race start.

Got a great one off the line, missed Tim's Honda in Curva Grande when he thought the inside kerb was a great idea. Then followed John and a BRM I think driven by KH down to Parabolica, whereby both positioned themselves on each side of the track. However I'd been following John and braked early for the corner, but he braked earlier. Knowing there was a car on the outside where I'd have aimed my car for thus avoiding collision, I aimed for the inside knowing that either John would see me, or he wouldn't. He didn't, and his car went spearing into the barriers. Not a lot I could do about that except chastise myself lots. Even a Waza train 1-2-3-4 couldn't make up for the fact that I'd taken out a front-runner in seemingly a repeat of (many) collisions this season.

I applaud Tim's efforts to shake the tow from evilclive, Hristo and myself. Pitlanes are wonderful tools seldom used! ;D

Had a 10 second lead that was wiped out when the bastard BT11 wouldn't slow down in time for Parabolica. Thus the Waza 1-2-3-4 became a CLOSE Waza 1-2-3-4. When Hristo dropped out for some reason, that was a Waza 1-2-3 and I was content to stay in the draft and not do any rash moves. Until a Honda drew alongside me and thought Curva Grande was a safe overtaking opportunity. Despite me going as wide as I dared without riding the barrier, either lag or he bit and I'd had a wheel ripped off. Game over!

Been a, how shall I say this, mixed season for myself. :D Long races are something to get your teeth into on good circuits, however a move to the same length races as Graduates next season should definitely be considered, especially at a place like this where the difference in lap times is 8 seconds.

That was a cracking race for me.  Had a good clean battle with Steve Bird for most of the race.  I spent the first half of the race trying to get on terms with him but I got ahead when he spun at Lesmos trying to fend off a couple of faster cars who we recovering after an incident (James and Tim I think).  Don't know what happened there, my client reply didn't show the lap 1 shunts at Parabolica.  Some incident reports needed for that one I suspect ::).

Anyway latter part of the race was spent trying to defend against Steve.  He got past a couple of times but I managed to repass him.  Last lap was very tight and we went round parabolica side by side but I managed to hang on, crossing the line just 2 hundredths of a second ahead.  Pretty close!

Sorry about that contact, I had no idea it had occured until seeing your post - There isn't any contact in my replay, I think you shyed into my lag shadow because of the pileup infront.
Either way if you want it modded I'm happy to send it in, otherwise I think you've called it correctly  :)

Regarding the racing though, that was an absolute blast!  ;D I was hoping you enjoyed it as much as I was, think we both managed to make the odd mistake but each gave room where needed so all was well, I look forward to a repeat  :thumbup1:
Shame you span out but also glad I wasn't the cause  ;D

After James span off I found myself closing on Evil at a steady rate, probably took about 4 laps to get right up behind him, We diced for a bit until I think he decided to draft me upto the front where Jethro and Hristo were still fighting pretty hard.
As luck would have it they must have had a near miss in Para just as Clive and I caught them, I managed to leapfrog from 3rd to 1st with Hristo jumping in behind me, followed by Jethro and then Evil I think.
Much shuffleling then occured - I couldn't give details without watching the replay as I type - Hristo eventually quit out with a smoking engine - then the Incident between Clive and Jethro occured in Para (which makes a fine over taking spot actually :P) although I think it was lag related going by my own replay :)

From here on in it was a running battle with Evil who did a marvelous job of clinging on and making me underestimate him. I knew he was holding back on me in his earlier attempts at Para, but didn't realise how much by!  :hammer:

Anyway, the battle took it right to the wire with Clive out dragging me by .1 of a second at the line - fantastic fight to end the season on Sir :fencing: :notworthy:


I belive Phil said he was thinking of running a full GP at the Nurburgring next season? - Gets my vote  :clap:  ;)

Big apologies to Clutch. I lost control of my car when I had to move suddenly to the right when H moved at his time on the right on the run to Grande and I clipped the right edge of the track that launched me to poor Clutch following close. He ended on his roof and I lost a wheel, luckily all the following cars managed to avoid Clutch car sitting on his roof at turn in point of Grande. Not the best way to finish a great season for me.  :(

Ciao

I enjoyed my race and ended 3 d 4 secs behind mutt and evil who I could maybe have caught up if I din t constantly do small mistakes(those you don t do in practice but only in race lol).anyway it was fun and big grats to Evil who won that close battle I could see as two dots in front of me. Had a sad offtrack on L1 Para. I had some brakepot issue but just didn t buffer enough for the inconsistancy of it and went off. Got a bit trapped by JR and one other car in the gravel that seemed to have had an incident into Para.
And Gz to Mutt for winning the season ,but that was allready set a while ago I guess :)

Qualified about 8th i think, but it doesn't really matter at Monza, as long as you are close enough to get a tow you've always got a chance.

This was possibly my best chance of a win / podium after an appaling season. Some of the faster guys were well behind me and the most dominant Driver, Hristo, was on a fast track in a slow car.
After 5 laps i was in 5th following the leading pack. I knew from braking early at Lesmo and Parabolica that i had a tiny bit in hand on the people in front so decided to stay in the slip stream of the leading pack who i could see dicing 2 or 3 abreast into some corners.

Unfortunately my race came to an end after 5 laps when, as fpolicardi describes above, he put a wheel on the grass as H made a move infront of him. I had nowhere to go and it was impossible to avoid him even though i was trying not to follow too close as i thought something may happen. Anyway, i hit him and my car ended up on its roof.
No problem fpolicardi, i know from past races your a good driver and this was a racing incident.  ;)

Glad to see the back of this season which has been terrible for me, but i'll be back as i still love it.

Finally, 3 things i've learned from my first season in the Amateurs.

1. As others have said, the races are too long and should be the same length as the Novices. The majority of the time, everythings done and dusted for most Drivers after 20+ laps (40minutes of racing).
2. I agree there should be a No-Reset (Shift-R) rule in the Amateurs. However, it should be noted that it makes absolutely no difference to the Driving style of some people in the field. First Lap 'do or die' lunges and 3 abreast into corners on the opening laps are common place. Is this modern F1 where passing is impossible unless its within the opening couple of laps of a race? This was the one thing that most surprised me coming up from the Novices. Its fair to say that the race craft of the novice drivers is equal to that of some of the Amateurs.
3. In Game Chat. Come on, even the Novices, yes people totally new to the game, have grasped that there shouldn't be any in game chat during qualifying and the race.

Cheers
Clutch

Although I couldn't seem to get the car handling the way I wanted, the race turned out to be quite good with some nice racing alongside Phil.

After a spin I managed to recover to catch Phil but his driving allowed me few chances of getting through.  I did manage twice, I think, but I didn't drive defensive at all which allowed Phil back each time.

Through the last turn and drag to the line we were side by side and prib actually read 0yds across the line but the chewing gum Phil had stuck on the nose of his Fez broke the beam first to take the position by 2/10ths.

Good fun, and nice to get some close racing.  Hopefully I can get a bit more speed next season and be more competitive.  Getting a bit tedious finishing last on track most of the time, although at least I'm finishing most.

What he said.

Chat is very distracting!  It would be nice if some of the faster chaps could hold on for 30 seconds or so while us mere mortals finish our race before discusing how bloody good they are. 'COMPLETE' is a big giveaway as to when everyone has finished in Qually and Race.  ;)

With regards to Steve's comment I would actually be happy to see fines imposed for the above as it's incredible off putting and has even cost me positions/races in the past  :cursing:



Oh, and as I forgot in the excitement of last night - Well done to King Hiro for a solid drive back up to third.
I sort of forgot about you as you had such a lonely race after being clobbered on the first lap  :)

Phil and Steve, how close were you to each other? 0.014 seconds separated you on the finish line!!! :o

Is is a breach of the Sporting Regulations (https://www.ukgpl.com/index.php/rules/sporting) although no specific penalties are laid down. A persistent problem could be dealt with at moderators discretion using the whole range of possible penalties. Hopefully common sense can prevail before that happens...

I think part of the problem with chatting is many people still don't know or don't use the whisper command. Typing / followed with the driver's number (i.e. /#20 nice lap) would send a private message to that driver, so please use that. As for general comments, nobody cares so those are needless. I don't even see the point of saying PO and the likes. Who does it help? Are drivers on the track supposed to make way for people just because they're exiting pits?

As for my race, it once again proved that the handicap system simply doesn't work at all on some tracks and needs to be more adaptive. The fact that I was totally nailing my lines and carrying as much speed as possible, yet others were constantly missing their braking points, running wide, catching slides, but then merely throttle out of corners and still lapping a second and a half quicker is more than enough evidence. I suggest there are different car assignments for tracks on which engine power > anything else.

Anyway, I had some good battles, although it was frustrating to have to constantly lift up in corners to avoid rearending people and then they'd just beat me senseless on the straights. I'm sorry for hitting you, Pod, but you braked much much earlier for Parabolica on that lap than on your previous laps so I was totally caught by that. Tried my best to go off to the left and avoid you, but it was impossible.

As for Fulvio, I was just performing a slipstreaming pass and that's why I moved to the right. It wasn't an intention to block you or something, sorry it surprised you.

Jethro, next time you say "I have bad warp so I won't be getting close in battles" make sure you stay true to your words. Cutting ahead before braking zones and running side by side is quite the opposite. It was good fight anyway. Especially when Tim and Evil closed up on us and we were 4 Wazas fighting it out.

Eventually after all the extreme pushing to compensate for the lack of power the engine finally gave up. It said ignition, but looked more like it lost a few cylinders.

-=Hristo=-

As a season finale that was some race!!!

Arrived in quali late for various reasons and never managed to get a really good tow, but still managed 6th on the grid i think.
Then I bogged down at the start worried about over revving the engine and dropped another couple of place on the run down to Curve Grande.

I could hear Hristo's ruddy BT7 and I knew he was somewhere inside me from the Prib readout, but I could not see him in my mirrors and dare not risk a look sideways with all the traffic in front!! As a result I hooked a wheel into that very narrow strip of grass alongside the outer armco and dragged myself into the barrier....grats to all those who avoided a Honda with random direction control...Everyone passed me and I was some 7 secs behind the whole field and it was only L1!! Things were not looking good!! ::)

The car was fortunately undamaged and after a steady 1st lap just to be sure I began my comeback  lol.

A few drivers enjoyed playing in the sand pit at Parabolica more than racing ( I confess that I did dip my wheels in there at one point just to see what it was like!) and a few others gave me a tow and allowed an easy pass.

Gradually I climbed the leader board and with some notable names dropping out found myself in 3rd spot trying to get on terms/tow range of Hristo and Jethro. At this point in the race Tim was recovering from an off and his prolonged dice with Mr Rye, which had conveniently kept him away from me, and was closing the gap. I was reluctanct to push any harder and risk the engine and was content with some 25 laps still to go to be reeling in Jethro and H at about 0.1 secs a lap, but Tim was in more of a hurry.
 I allowed Tim to pass and took advantage of his slipstream to drag us both up to the leaders. as Tim observed i think there was a close call somewhere because it suddenly became a 4 way dice.
Still some 20 laps to...not even half way!!... and the activity was frantic as Hristo's BT7 with its super smooth handling closed through every bend and the rest of us using the extra power to ease away on the straights. For several laps I sat behind and watched the action as cars went 2 or 3 abreast, into places where they really ought not to be  LOL.

A couple of times I found that I picked up the tow and just cruised past one of them to gain a momentary advantage, but it was plain that barring mistakes or mechanical failures , no-one was going to escape from this "menage a quatre".

I think the strain eventually told on Hristo's little screamer and his engine expired leaving Tim and Jethro squabbling in front of me.

Once again exiting Parabolica I found I could carry just a fraction more speed than the other two and hooked up with Tim's slipstream to draught past Jethro into Curve Grande. Jethro went in late on the outside  and suddenly vanished into the armco. I have looked at my replay iI think I kept my car on my 50% of the tarmac and there was no evidence of contact, but there was obviously some warp involved which ended Jethro's race..sry mate.

So now it was Tim and myself, both in Hondas with about 15 laps to go and a healthy gap back to King Hiro who appeared to have the pace to close , but then seemed to make an error and lose all his good work.

From here to the flag it was a game of wits as we both tried moves to pass or just possibly break away if a small gap opened. But with the tow effect neither of us was going to let the other slip away  ;)

I think we both had worked out that Parabolica on the final lap was where this race was going to be decided!!!

So I tried a couple of moves to suss out Tim's capability, and I am sure he was trying the same with me.

I was careful not to show my hand too soon, and give him the chance to counter what was going to have to be a ragged edge attack at Parabolica on the last lap.

Tim seemed to have decided that he needed to lead into Parabolica and hold the inside line to outdrag me to the line as he started defending that position with about 4 laps to go.

So..... it was going to have to be the long way around if I was going to get the win ???

I had been very conservative with my braking into parabolica, but last lap I was the "King of the Late Brakers" and although on the outside gained a few yards on Tim. I manged to settle the car perfectly into the corner and just nailed it in 3rd right around the outside line abandoning any rev limit..speed shift into 4th ( no lift) and as straight as I could for the line. Tim was alongside and Prib showed 0.1 behind... but that was no guarantee that he would not get back at me.

That finish line definitely gets further down the straight on the last lap!!!! ::)

A great race and grats to all......I NOTICED THAT NO-ONE GOT LAPPED??? and big grats to Tim who had this championship nailed long before this race.

Just as an FYI Hristo, from memory of last night, I only did that once and it was completely accidental when the BT11 stepped out in the braking zone and I couldn't correct it. The lag did seem to settle down somewhat, but I wasn't running nose-to-gearbox with people, just close enough that I could get a decent tow and increase the speed. I lifted a lot in the tows of people, yourself included, to avoid putting myself in the situation where I'd have to make a pass or risk a collision, thus giving myself more choice with regard to position of car.

Unfortunately, positions of other cars meant I'd have collided with either John, KH, or whoever was behind me, on lap 1. If I'd have gone for that gap that was there between the cars, the likely outcome would be all 3 of us out there and then and penalties for myself. John's fully within his rights to report me for it, but there was nothing I could do under the circumstances.

3rd!  :o

I never managed more than 10,000Rpm into Para in 2nd!  ;D
Although I did notice from your engine note we had totally different gearing strategy's on the go....
I think my downfall was that my setup was made to maximise lap times, 2nd was long enough to do the entire Lesmos complex safely which left it only just in the power band for para when fighting.
Suffice to say adjustments will be made to counter you for next season  ;)

Also as a side - As I already had the championship in the bag I decided to throw my normal caution to the wind regarding rev limits. I gave the car death from the drop of the flag and it just lapped up the abuse  :angel:

Go Go Waza Technology!  :w00t:

'kin close, i think covers that one!  ;D

Monza's good for that   8)
Fulvio pipped me last season by all of 0.036 of a second ( :hammer: )

Shame the Waza train exploded and fell to pieces before the end this time out, as it looks rather spiffing in the replay  ;D

well it sounds like most of you had a great race alas that was not the case for me .

qually went well with 3rd thanks to a fine gent in a brm for giving me a tow and so to the race ...

got a good start and was soon alongside Tim who must have slightly bogged down at the start and was chasing KH , must have got a better exit than him out of lesmo2 because coming out of ascari I was besides him on the right on the run down to para .

on the run down the straight I stayed to the right because I could not see KH , what happened next really shouldn't have . I was overtaking the lead car on lap one and had out braked him on the inside into para... to then be rear ended by another car , did they really think that they could overtake both 1st and 2nd place cars in one swoop ?

but then again it's not the first time this season that i've had my race finished like that (it's not even the 2nd or .... ) .

john 

I knew you were faster than me Steve so once I got ahead because of your spin I had to drive a defensively to try and keep the position.  Keeping the inside line for Parabolica and Lesmos to force you round the outside was my only chance.  I did keep it very tight to give you room, drifting wide would have risked contact and would have been unfair.  Despite my tactics you still managed to pass me round the outside at Lesmos (twice!!).  The tow on the drag down to Parabolica was so good even I had the chance to overtake on the inside.  I've you'd kept the inside line at parabolica (quite fair and within the rules) I wouldn't have been able to drive around the outside (as you almost did on the last lap!!).  Defensive driving is allowed in UKGPL but blocking isn't.  I think there was one lap at Curva Grande when I drifted at bit wider than I wanted and might have blocked you a bit but apart from that, I think it was a pretty clean dice. 

Looking forward to resuming our battles in Season 19.

Sorry Phil, I can see how my comments may have read.  I wasn't criticising in any way.  What I was trying to say was that you're driving was skilled, calculated and clean.  I couldn't have driven like that lap after lap or I'd have ended up going off.  You held your line lap after lap and it was quite impressive without making any mistakes to allow me through.  When I did manage to get passed with a move that, for me, was a little ambitious (overtaking is not a strong point, but I'm working on it) you got back almost instantly.

It was great driving on your part.

Woohoo!!  just looked at the completed Championship table  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

As we all knew Tim had already stamped his name on the top spot for HER, but my win at Monza and a few reasonable finishes in the last few races has sneaked me into 2nd!!! :o :o  SHE will be pleased..I hope, coz I was amazed!!!
Especially as the WAZAS have comprehensively taken the Team title as well.

I feel a glass ( or two) of saki coming on.............

Kind words Steve :-[  All I was trying to say is that is how I think GPL should be played.  Over the years we've developed rules at UKGPL to encourage tactical driving and discourage rash irresponsible behaviour.  GPL isn't enjoyable as an "arcade" game.  Being punted off on lap one because of someone else's stupid mistake is a real pain.  You have the race craft but like me you lack the outright speed.  Hopefully we'll get quicker but if not we could drop down to the Novices for Season 19.  There are a few more drivers at our level in that division so instead of fighting for last place we might be competing for a podium ;).

Personally I'd prefer to stay up in Am's as I think the best way to improve with anything is to play someone who is better, and I have a whole grid full of better to play just now.  Hopefully might pay off eventually.

You'll have the choice to pick which division you want when registration for Season 19 Opens ;)

Finally got around to doing the moderation which completely slipped my mind, so the standings are now finalised.

Please all read the moderation comments, especially those involved in the only reported incident.

:(

We need more Jethro clones for the new season, just in case.