SimRacing.org.uk

Season 19 - Amateurs Trophy

The rules for the Amateurs Trophy are the same as last season.

Please check the Season 19 pages for details (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=246&theme=6) regarding rules and the Amateurs Trophy (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=247&theme=6) pages in particular.

The races will be run as follows:

Car set: 65 F1 only
Date: Every second Tuesday from 30th March 2010
Time: 9:00pm London UK Time (30 mins practice, race starts at 9:30pm)
Race Length: 50 minutes
Damage Model:  PRO
Server: UKGPL_T7_2
Race List: IGOR

Provisional Calendar as follows:

Date	Day	Time	Track	Track Directory	Laps
30/03/2010	Tuesday	9:00pm	Mexico	mexico	26
20/04/2010	Tuesday	9:00pm	Keimola	keimola	36
04/05/2010	Tuesday	9:00pm	Laguna Seca	laguna67	42
18/05/2010	Tuesday	9:00pm	Nurburgring	nurburg	5
01/06/2010	Tuesday	9:00pm	Schottenring	schotten	9
15/06/2010	Tuesday	9:00pm	Mosport	mosport	34
29/06/2010	Tuesday	9:00pm	Sachsenring	Sachsr67	17
13/07/2010	Tuesday	9:00pm	Rouen	rouen	23
27/07/2010	Tuesday	9:00pm	Zeltweg 71	zeltw71	26
10/08/2010	Tuesday	9:00pm	Watkins Glen	watglen	42

The provisional calendar may be changed at the discretion of the Divisional Moderator.

If you would like to enter this series please submit an entry in the poll.  

If I can be this quick in the races, I'll be happy  ;)

chassis choice if possible:

1. Lotus
2. BRM

cheers

Like my teammate said... 1. Lotus 2. BRM for me too please

Wow, a new season so soon. :)

I'm happy with the BT11, although if I merit something faster, I'll be almost eternally grateful. :)

Interesting selection of tracks. Haven't raced on a few of these, so it'll be...erm.. interesting.

Put me down for my old faithful BT11 if thats Ok.

See you on track.. for hopefully longer than the first corner...  ;)

regged for a race here and there (in the lotus if possible).

What an awesome track selection  :notworthy:

I'm in again - Hope I'm still allowed my trusty Waza Chariot?  :angel:

I suppose you plan to put me in the BT7 again, but I urge you to at least give a slightly faster car choice for tracks where engine power makes a big difference (like Spa, Monza, etc.). The Cooper or BT11 come to mind.

can't see spa or monza on that list ...

john

I said "LIKE Spa, Monza..." and I can see Rouen, Zeltweg and Watkins on that list, which are LIKE Spa and Monza.

No need for silly games, JR, you know very well what is meant by engine power track...

I'll be doing only few races, so If possible Lotus or BRM for me please.

1st choice would be an Austin A35 please , but in the event there isn't one of these 1960's supercars available I will settle for some inferior form of motability.

Any suggestions welcome . :P

P.S. one with comfy seating would be nice (easy on the piles )  ::)

Hi,
I would like the BT11 if it's OK.

There is one thing, some of the races are the same night as GPLRACER races, and that may mean that I could be a little late. I hope that's not a problem.

Really looking forward to my first Amateurs season, See you on track.

Göran

Hopefully I will have time to get my computer (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=7304.msg128604#msg128604) up and running for the start of the season, and hopefully I will be allocated to my old trusted horse (the fez). Yippy kiay! :cowboy:

well I wasn't being silly , but you know the rules that drivers get assigned a car to drive for the whole season  , so I can only guess you are just playing a silly games asking to swap depending on the track .

john

Well, since you fail to realize I was asking to be put in a bit faster car just for those tracks and remain in the slowest car for the rest, should I ask for the BT11 or Cooper for all tracks? I'm sure you would not want that...

H, if that happened, that would qualify others in the BT7 or the Cooper or other cars to ask for a faster one for the power tracks. If we say yes once.......

If you haven't got it yet, I simply refuse to drive in a car that has zero chance to win on tracks where driving skill matters least. I don't race to fight for 3rd position or lower, and rely only on luck to move up. In addition, when you have 4-5 cars passing you on a straight after you've managed to qualify better than all of them without a tow and you go faster in the corners than all of them, then something's definitely not right.

The whole campaign in recent years to severely handicap faster drivers in UKGPL has been rather demotivating and illogical to me. If this is how the Amateurs are going to continue I don't see a reason to compete. It's hardly about challenge or fun anymore. I simply proposed a middle-ground solution so it doesn't give me bigger advantages on other tracks. You don't really believe the faster cars are at a handicap at slower tracks, do you?

the handicapping is over the whole season and with each driver having just the one chassis , with points from the races going towards the championship .

you get the slowest car because you are the fastest driver , that's how amateurs works . everybody else understands that .

not all the other division at ukgpl work this way but amateurs does , graduates works with tokens to try and even up the cars and not the drivers and in others drivers get placed in slower cars the higher they are in the championship , each has advantages and disadvantages .

the rules have been published and won't be changed just for you .

john

   

The problem is, it's not the chassis that is slower, it's the engine, so the handicapping is highly inconsistent. It simply doesn't work on tracks where engine makes the biggest difference. It's not like putting someone in a Honda or BRM in the 67s, which have fairly strong engines but heavy, bad handling chassis, but would still go well even at tracks like Spa and Monza.

Here it's not handicapping, because even if you don't do a single mistake and drive on the absolute limit, you have zero chance to compete with cars that just have 20-30 km/h higher straight line speed and much better acceleration. That's the problem with handicapping this way in 65 mod - all chassis have similar weight and handling characteristics.

I believe handicapping's idea is to give a chance for slower drivers to battle for top positions, not to take away the chance of faster drivers to win. Don't you agree? I've brought this point numerous times before and this is a good chance to bring it up again. I also believe it's not me who suffer because of the way it's done, you just need to look at race results and see some of the top UKGPL drivers struggling to even make it into the top 5.

the championship is over the whole season , it could be said that you have an unfair advantage at twisty tracks . would you agree with that ?

john

Like John says, the handicapping is to even up the entrants over a season not each individual race otherwise we would run the same track 10 times. In real world racing some cars are better suited to faster tracks than others but everybody still enters each race.

The races are now shorter than last season so you are not on the limit for such a long time as a 50% Grand Prix but to say you won't compete for 3rd place or lower is a little naive.

Tim won last season's title by over 100 points but only won 2 races (1 less than you) his worst 2 results dropped were a no show and a 4th. You don't have to be competitive at every circuit to win the championship.

I am not allocating the chassis on my own but I honestly cannot see you getting anything other than a BT7 for the season. The conditions of entry for the 65s is that a chassis is allocated for the season and people who sign up are aware of it. We are lucky at UKGPL in that we have many fast and consistent drivers, particularly in 65s but unfortunately not all of them can fit in the top 5 at the same time.

Incidentally, you won't be the only person not to get their chassis of choice. :o

Oh and could I please ask that this discussion be moved elsewhere as this is the registration thread and it makes it easier to track chassis requests etc with less posts in it.

I'm sure the discussion would thrive in its own thread.

What is my "unfair" advantage? I'd very much like to hear about that.  ::)

Im in  :)
Pls tell me wich car i can drive
cheers
Natan

LOL
Being too damn fast!

Good luck in the coming season H.

Yes, being fast is such an unfair advantage, lol. But I think JR probably meant something else but he's afraid to say it openly. ;)

It's luck that had more impact in my results in the last two Amateurs seasons than anything to do with driving, so yeah, I need that. That is, If I care to bother with racing this division at all. I'm sure some would be very glad if I don't.

i said could ...

john

I’ve made my view on the chassis allocation system pretty clear on the moderator’s forum and in the Season 17 mid-season review.  I also tried to precipitate some discussion on the matter in the Season 18 mid-season review.  I prefer a system like the Historics have but the fact is the majority of the moderators and drivers seem to prefer chassis allocation and since I don’t want to run UKGPL on my own I’m happy to go along with it.  Over the last 2 seasons the 65s have proved to be the most popular division so it can’t be all bad.

If you register for the Amateurs H you will get the BT7, no question.  You are the fastest driver and hence the rules as they stand mean you can’t have anything else.  If it annoys you so much, don’t register and someone else will get the BT7.  Probably Mike Beattie (if he registers) or Jethro (because if he didn’t keep crashing would be blo*dy quick) and that means there will be a lot of candidates for the Cooper.  It doesn’t take a genius to work out that guys like Evil, Tim Muttram, JR and Fulvio will be in the frame for a Cooper.  Eventually if everyone complains about being given the BT7 or the Cooper the division won’t be viable and we’ll have to change the rules.  The only thing that is certain is that I’ll end up in the Ferrari because there won’t be anybody slower than me.  It doesn’t matter what chassis I get I’ve no chance of winning but that doesn’t stop me taking part and who knows if there is someone at the back to race with I might even enjoy it.

Phil, why after 3 seasons (I think) of Amateurs divison you haven't noticed that, in the 65 mod, engine power matters the most and on tracks with long straights or hard acceleration, it makes a huge difference and whatever chassis allocations you did that may work for regular tracks simply don't work on fast tracks? I don't see why the rules can't be more adaptive and elastic, if i can say that, and have a set of 2 rules or something for engine-dependent and chassis-dependant tracks. This can make it much more fair for everyone on ALL tracks. I hope you consider such thing and you can easily do it based on results from races on those different tracks, not just on my own words.

Just registered for this too, I know I'll be at the back somewhere no matter which chassis I'm allocated, or choose. But due to my lack of experience and practice time I can't really say which chassis I prefer, or indeed which I'm fastest in, just let me race. In my case its for fun, I do my best to keep out of the fast guys way and battle with those I see around me on similar times. I respect greatly the abilities of those at the head of the race and sympathise with their desire to win, but we all sign up for multiple leagues with differing levels of competition, and can surely enjoy racing whatever car we have at whatever track we might be at.

Yes I have noticed that and there is no easy answer that satisfies most people.  A system of pit stops based on WR times is the only way (I am aware of) to even out the chassis irrespective of the circuit.  We used to do it that way in Div 1 for years as you know.  In the 67s the Lotus was usually the fastest (so longest pit stop) and the BRM the slowest so no pit stop.  All except for Spa where the Eagle was fastest and the Cooper the slowest.  This sort of anomaly was a rare occasion in the 67s but maybe not so in the 65s?

If you can think of a system that would achieve the same aim without pit stops I'd be interested to know, I'd be only too happy to avoid any disagreements over chassis allocation in the future.  What ever we do in the future, it's too late to do anything for season 19.

I do look forward to the annual 'i want a quicker car debate' on this thread from the most succesful UKGPL Driver in History who's won 10 Championships.

I'd have thought there would be nothing left to achieve.. but maybe winning the Championship in a BT7 could be the ultimate achievement? Why not give it a go H? Suffer on the fast tracks, and clean up on the slower ones, you never know where you might end up. There's no Spa and Monza this year, and a lot of the fast tracks have kinks in the straights, so if you drive smart you may be able to keep people back?

Myself, I'm not the fastest Driver, and if i get the BT11 that i have requested i don't even have the fastest car. Combine that with Manual Shifting with a 5 Speed H-Shift Gearbox, Using the Clutch and Heal Toeing and you'll see i have no chance of winning it this year, but so what. I know before, you've stated that it is physically hard work getting a decent lap time over race distance in a BT7 and getting a decent result - well if you don't Manual Shift with the Clutch and Manual H Shifter (as opposed to just flicking the paddles behind the wheel) you don't know what hard work is my friend. If i make race distance i'm knackered doing all that and i could be finishing last for my troubles.

Most of us start on the grid knowing we probably won't win, or get a podium, but do our best and hope that it could be our day if circumstances allow it. That is the correct attitude.  ;)

As Mike said, its pointless this discussion continuing on this thread... again.  :)

 ;) 50min race , BRM is my 1th choice , havnt made a 2nd yet .

Finally making the leap Nicky!

Welcome :)

Natan, you either didn't vote or your vote didn't work so I can't add yu to the system yet.

Nice Nicky, It would not have been complete without you.

Göran

i would like to race with HONDA.
can do only few races per season and also dont know about my connection (have problems here right now)

i already participated in few league races, but mostly in open serverver races

k

Hi Karliss

These races are run under PRO rules which can be quite tough if you haven't raced a lot on-line.  I suggest you register for the Novices (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=7572.0) instead.  The Novice races use the same cars but resets are allowed if you damage the car ;).

Cheers

Phil

I would like to tack a part of this season.
My preferred cars are :
Ferrari
brm
lotus
Cheers

Natan if you look at this thread

https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=7621.0

you will see that you have been seeded 2 so you are not allowed Lotus or Ferrari , so i guess your in the brm again .

john

Evening.

Very short notice I know, but I'd like to enter the last round of the season if possible.

Ta, Joe. :)

Yes no problem you're in.

Judging by your pace in the grads tonight I've seeded you as group 4 which means you'll have to take the Cooper or the BT7.

Thankyou, I'll see what I can do in the next two days.  :)