SimRacing.org.uk

Season 19 Amateurs Trophy - Round 1 - Mexico City

Welcome to the Season 19 opener for the 65 divisions, in particular the Amateurs. Round 1 of the new season takes place at the highest circuit of the season in front of the lines of armed police with the dark sunglasses and only white tyres for protection.

Mexico has a very difficult T1 for a full grid, and accidents to the outside or at the chicane tend to come back onto the track because of the barriers and notorious polos. The wide Start Finish straight tempts the unwary into trying to go two or even three abreast but be careful and don't forget that lap 1 incidents attract an extra penalty place.

Tyres are cold at the start, your control will suffer- and if you are on the inside be aware that there may be a car outside you, if on the outside don't get stuck on the armco.   

Reserve drivers should not join until there are only 30 mins of qualifying left and all drivers should not go out on track until there are 30 minutes of qualifying left as this helps all drivers join the server successfully.

Please restrict chat to pit messages only including at the end of the race until ALL drivers still racing have crossed the line.

Don't forget to use the updated 65 mod for this race.

Please be in the IGOR UKGPL chatroom by 8:55 p.m.
(You will need to set up a channel called #ukgpl if you haven't already done so)
IGOR and Race passwords: see above (#post_event_password)

Server = 7.UKGPL
Server = UKGPL_T7_2
IP address = 62.149.202.168
Race Date = 30-03-2010
Time = 21:00
Track = Mexico City
Variant = 65F1
Damage Model = Pro
Qually Time = 30 minutes.
Race Length = Long
Password: see above (#post_event_password)

Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=247&theme=6)

As usual for 65s we are again allocating drivers with a chassis to use throughout the season. The only permitted changes will be those agreed by the moderator. We want to promote good close racing and an exciting Championship so anybody either running away with it or falling behind will be considered for a change of chassis either up or down.

To give drivers some free choice in the chassis they drive for the season we have split the cars into groups based on average performance and split the drivers into groups based on average ability. The chassis numbers for Amateurs are as follows:

AMATEUR CHASSIS GROUPS
1 - Lotus, Ferrari
2 - BRM, Honda
3 - BT11
4 - Cooper
5 - BT7

Each driver has been given a seeding number and must pick a chassis with either an equal number or higher number but not a lower number. For example, if a driver is given a seeding of 2, he must pick one of the cars in group 2 (BRM or Honda) but if he would prefer to drive either the BT11, Cooper or BT7 he may do so. This means that a driver given a seeding of 1 can pick any chassis he prefers.

**NOTE**
Whichever chassis a driver begins race 1 with is the chassis he must use for the remainder of the season unless a change has been agreed with the moderator.

The driver seedings are as follows:

AMATEUR DRIVERS AND GROUPS
FULL TIME
1 Phil
3 EvilClive
1 Bernie
3 John Roberts
3 FullMetal
1 b_1_rd
4 turkeymachine
3 policardi
2 al heller
1 Nicky
1 clutch
2 kinghiro
2 g jonsson
2 Jimmy Rye
2 natan

RESERVES
5 Hristo
1 Bartosz
1 Asbjeurn
1 Ruud

Please use the updated 65 mod for this race which is available here:
Jamesonline.net/UKGPL (http://www.jamesonline.net/ukgpl/1965mod_PATCH_v2.0.2_Setup.zip)

Fulvio's server wasn't letting me in, it was timing out. I tried everything I could think of, but it didn't help.

It's not something on my side because I can connect to other servers just fine. It's nothing to do with my firewall settings or whatever. I doubt my ISP is denying me access to the server's region, it was working perfectly OK in previous races whenever we used it. I could ping it just fine now as well, but GPL was timing out regardless.

Hope it's fixed until next race or another server is used...

Please get it sorted out Hristo!!  :-\

 or else, I shall have to win more races in that embarrasing green thing!!! ::)

Sorry to hear about your troubles Hristo.

Qualy:

over a second of my novice qualy time.

Race.

great start (with massive slide) up to P6 behind clutch who I was following nicely for about the first 5 laps. Thought I'd have the pace to hold onto a nice finish. Then the car starts getting very twitchy and the rest of the race it may as well have been the Honda. Couldn't keep up and was passed and demoted to P7 around half way through. Then P8. I held onto the P8 car (al heller?) and repassed him in T1 only to spin off on acceleration later in the lap.

I knocked my tires on the concrete to the outside of the pit wall but I dont think that I damaged my car. For the rest of the race I had mental oversteer on entry to the chicane and had to really slow down my entry. Anyway, down in P11, someone inspected the grass which promoted me to P10. Then Steve Bird was all over me in the final lap and we crossed the line seperated by a few tenths.

Never looked to have the pace here but had an enjoyable race as plenty happened. Have never raced on the next two tracks so that'll be fun.  ;D Very happy to have seen the chequered flag as I haven't completed an online race for a Looong time.

If there is a shortage of anyone driving any car then I will happily drive what I am told.

Ryeman.

I'm really sorry H, I'll investigate if Gamesclan admins have filtered IP coming from your area. Can you PM me if you have a fixed IP and what ISP have you?
You could join on 24th March, but on last Sunday you raced on Nicky server so we don't know if it's today problem or what.
Ciao

May be totally unrelated but I had a problem joining servers some time back.  If the server had a password, I couldn't join.  All other servers were ok.  That was AVG anti-virus causing me problems.  As soon as I switched Anti-virus programme it was sorted.  So may not be the server.

The race - Nothing special for me.  Wasn't feeling 100% after injuring my back earlier in the day so was lacking a bit of enthusiasm.  Had a nice little tussle with James Rye towards the end, good clean close driving.  James got the better of me in the end though so well done to him.

Grats to the podium.

Well, I never had a problem with this or any other server before yesterday, and there were not changes on either side (supposedly), so I don't know. I could join fine at the Novices server which was also passworded. I've sent a PM to Fulvio and hopefully we can sort it out before the next race.

Couldn't keep up with the Brabhams ahead which at first I put down purely to my own lack of pace but I spent almost the whole race lapping with fellow-BRM drivers Ryeman & King Hiro (both quick guys in my view) so realised I can't be going all that slowly! A recovering Nicky passed all 3 of us pretty easily & his Brabham certainly looked to be handling the Mexican twisty bits really nicely compared to the BRM.

My race went OK really - I dropped a few places at the start when King Hiro had a slow getaway ahead of me. Ended up in a stalemate situation behind Ryeman, neither losing ground nor gaining & so when teammate King Hiro caught me up I didn't make it too hard for him to pass as I wondered if he could catch Ryeman & perhaps drag me along too. Was quite fun watching their battle which ended when Ryeman had a spin - after that I was back in a stalemate but this time with my teammate so it wasn't so bad ;) Congrats to the podium & also to Nicky who drove a great recovery.

One thing though, the Am's registration thread said the races would be 50 minutes but this race was set as "Pro-long" which ended up being 37 minutes. That felt rather short to me - I'd much prefer a 50 minute race (but I suspect I'm in a minority on that one). Will all the other races be "long" rather than 50 minutes?

Personally, I enjoyed the shorter length of race.

'Couldn't keep up with the Brabhams ahead which at first I put down purely to my own lack of pace but I spent almost the whole race lapping with fellow-BRM drivers Ryeman & King Hiro'

The BRM will surely be too the faster car  ;) at Rouen, Zeltweg and Watkins Glen, but those boys at the front are tough to match, let alone beat! The BRM was a blighter around Mexico, the first half of the lap was fine, but the second half was impossible with the front wheels scrubbing across the track. I tried to compensate by shifting the brake balance to 51% which is as far back as I have ever gone.

I noticed in practice that someone seemed to be struggling with lock through the chicane. If you lower the steering ratio to 11 or 12, you will find you can make the tight turns.

Ryeman.

 Very frustrating for Hristo not being able to join server, and unnerving for those of us trying to get pole in quali looking over our shoulders for a classic Hristo one lap flyer!!.

As it transpired, I finally managed to nail a half decent lap in the BT11 which, let us say, is a bit different to a real racing car like the Waza  ::) It is most disconcerting when the car one is driving actually goes where it is asked to go, after years of coaxing a change of direction with judicious application of throttle or steering lock.
 Although I just claimed pole with the one lap I hooked up, it was far from perfect and I felt frustrated not to get close to, or below, 1:50... maybe a good tow would have helped??.

Sitting on pole with Tim and John waiting to pounce was nerve wracking, so I held the defensive inside line into T1 and emerged still in front..just.
I pushed very hard for the first lap to try and get 1 sec gap on 2nd place and avoid being slipstreamed down the straight, which worked in keeping John at bay.

The next few laps John was keeping the pressure on and I was equally keen to try and break the tow. It took about 3-4 laps before John blinked and the gap grew to about 3 secs.

After that I concentrated on getting smooth consistant laps ( ha!! thats a joke!!) and growing the gap, whilst Tim hassled John for 2nd spot. Once Prib showed 10 secs as I crossed the s/f line I eased back and just cruised to the finish, somewhat surprised at getting a win on my first outing in a green thingy.
But I guess it shows that Waza training works in any car???

I didn't think weaving was allowed in ukgpl races and this type of driving to be totally unacceptable in a league races .

if this type of driving is to be allowed then I will no longer be driving in ukgpl .

john

It should have been 50 mins and it will be sorted for the next race.

Rules are clear  Defensive driving YES weaving NO.  Read bullet point 4 etiquette (https://www.ukgpl.com/index.php/rules/etiquette)

Don't debate here please - use the incident reporting procedures.

JR, it's amusing you complain of dirty driving when I've even lost count of how many times you hit me or blocked me in Qualifying and attempted to do so in races just for me to recognize on time and avoid collision...

I suggest you look at your own driving before you comment on others. As far as I'm concerned Evil is a much cleaner and conscious driver than you and the history and stats of accidents in previous seasons proves it.

why don't you shut up like Phil said ?

john

 ;D :D :)
First of all big congrats to Clive ,Tim , John  and Göran  and all !!

 my first time doing an real online race with a BT11 under pro rules .
can say I really start do like that car and for now I am lucky I did not choose BRM instead .

well , qually went pretty ok , was a bit too nervous to take my chances as I was in tow of Clive one lap .
But anyroads the car felt nice and so I was very pleased with being 6th on the grid .
Did had a lucky start  and turned  into T1 on  P5. As Tim slightly hits the armco the whole leading package seams to slow down and  so I did either , still facing my nose into Clutch`s gearbox . Unfortunately Rye got the imagination it would be a good moment to overtake . Cant say I am lucky with that , however my replay shows his car hits the inner tyre/curbs , went right then and sent me out . back to track and P12 then .
Took me up to Lap8 to recover my P6 . as the car still was fantastic to drive and the engine still accept my aggressive style ( to my surprising ) I was lucky to fight for P4 in the end .
But Göran did an brilliant job the last two remaining laps  and kept me save behind. Well done !
All in all , to me an great thrilling race , tremendous fun . Like to give compliment to all those let my overtaking being save and clean . thx for that .
Al , I hope there will be a track fits more to the BRM as Mexico did .
And I hope too Hristo will be able to join all upcoming races . its a pitty if someone cant race coz off unexpected internet thinghie trouble .

edit .

 ;) maybe we can act like the actual F1 drivers do , when it came up to beahviour on a straight :

only one change left or right .
thats an agreement they made . at least to safe lifes !!!
nothing a simracer had to be afraid off  ;D but it makes simracing more enjoyable.

Ah, good to know that harmony between UKGPL drivers reigns supreme.....

Grats Clive on a win in that green thing. It will be tamed eventually, but it does need a good kick up the rear end at certain tracks.

Start with yourself before you tell others.

stop moaning and grow up .

john

Nicky Ickx, sorry if I hit you. My replay doesn't show any contact though, maybe it was warp. I consider myself to be a clean racer, but if I made a mistake then sorry for that and I shall file an incident report so that the moderators can judge.

Anyway, looks like we've got an old fashioned Senna - Prost disagreement up the front there.

Ryeman 

Damage limitation at Mexico, a track i hate.

Finished 6th and that'll do me. Made up a few places off the line, then held it steady trying to lap in the 1:54's and 53's. Ickx caught and passed me quiet easily after I found Neutral on my H Shifter which allowed him to close and pass, though i didn't have the pace to stay with him anyway.

Compared to last season i thought the Driving was pretty good in the Ams today. No one 'went for it' at the beginning too much and the race was allowed to develop.

Personally i thought the race length was about right, so am dreading the increase to 50 minutes. As this race proved, everything was done and dusted pretty much after 35+ minutes of racing with everyone finding their pace and position and a stalemate situation, so adding another 15 minutes seems pointless. The Pro Damage sets the Ams apart in my opinion, not the race length. However, each to their own.  ;)

I also love the Itchov / John Roberts sniping (Seriously!). Its like proper F1. Both are very fast Drivers, so its a bit like Prost and Senna trading insults in the media. In my opinion it spices up the league, so i'll look forward to more grudge battle racing as they disappear out of my site after lap 1. I know this was the era of gentlemen racers, but sod it, there's nothing wrong with a bit of needle. I love it.  :)

Who's moaning? You could've kept it private and file a protest but you had to open your mouth and put your ridiculous blames against Evil in here when your own driving needs to be looked at in the first place.

Seriously, if you think your frustration from losing to someone in a race goes unnoticed, you're wrong. Worse is, you transfer it over to future races and even seasons. It's called being a sore looser.

Be careful what you do on the road because I can easily become very nitpicking and find numerous infractions to protest against you in just about each race, because I've just been getting over most of what you do until now and letting it go.

HAHAHAHAHA so funny .. you almost got me there thinking you were serious and then I noticed the date , your a tease you are .

you won't catch me out on your April fools jokes !

who says you a arrogant self-centred egotist without a sense of humour hasn't read this post .

john   

Well, April 1 or not this is a regular race repport.

First, Grats to Clive and the rest of the podium.

I was a bit surprised to get p4 on the grid even if I used a pb lap to do it. And not much really happend after that, I finished p4 too and most of the time I just drove lap after lap in my own pace. But I had one problem and that was tire temperatures especially left front so I had to take it easy not really push so much and when Nicky got pass clutch4 he got closer and closer and me getting worried. So this time I was glad that the race was only 37 minutes, had it been 50 I am sure Nicky would have found a way to pass me.

Anyway I am pleased with my first race in the Ams and looking forward to the rest, see you.

Göran

PS. I am still puzzled about letting really fast drivers like the podium guys race the BT11 and call it handicap.

Hristo, John.

I suggest that both of you submit an incident report and let the moderators handle it.


Goran, Tim and Clive both had the Honda last year and both were getting rather good in it. BT11 is a good car but it takes a lot to get the best out of it.

Please guys lets just cool it. 

I'm not going to comment here in the public forum, as I think this is something for the moderators to rule on and I will accept their judgement.

We will look at chassis allocations because something must be wrong if Evil wins a race. :o

May as well get a report in while I have the chance...

Was very pleased with the pace I found in the BT11, what it lacks in power it seemed to more than make up for in grip - an attribute neither myself nor Clive were accustomed too!
Got down to business in practice and quickly put John on pole! ;) :hammer:
Got back out there and started work again, first I got what should have been 2nd thanks to a bit of drafting only to find Evil had done a stormer infront and relegated me to 3rd instead!
2 laps later I managed to chop another few tenths off that time without the help of a draft and got my final best lap and a P2 on the grid.

Got an everso slight jump on Evil off the line which put me on his outside approaching T1, not intending on doing anything silly and noteing JR leaving a sensble amount of space for me to slither about in I decided to stay wide and follow Evil in hanging just off and outside his rear wheel - trouble is I overestimated the cold grip of the Brab when not under power and slid gently up into the armco  ::)
As it was lap 1 I made no effort to get back down and just coasted along the barriers hoping it'd keep me out of the way - on reaching the chicane a quick cut across the grass kept me out of the pack's way and dropped me to 4th behind Goran who didn't seem keen on letting me past  ;)

After a lap or 2 I managed to make a solid pass on Goran and set about chasing Evil and JR down, for the first 4 laps or so they were close enough to slow each other so I made visible gains - then Clive broke away and started to hold me level/possibly pull slightly each lap as my setup wasn't quite up to temp yet!

I caught JR only to perform an un-forced pirouette in T1 while hanging off his gearbox - didn't hit anything and either recovered incredibly fast or was fortunate enough to have John mess the chicane up good and proper as I'd only lost about 100 yards to him by the end of the next straight.
A couple more laps and I caught him a second time - it wasn't going to be easy as John seemed to have the slight advantage on the run from the hairpin up until about the 4th ess after which I seemed able to carry more speed in the faster turns. Obviously our top speeds were identical without drafting getting involved.
Using my slight speed advantage off the final turn to it's full I got a run on John down the straight good enough that he couldn't really fight back without major risk at T1.
I managed to keep him far enough away in the esses to pull ahead abit in the final few corners before the S/F straight which ment he could only make up distance on me along the straight but not get close enough to threaten - a particarily brave (I'm not allowed to say Banzai! anymore :( )attempt at T1 payed off and put me even further ahead, which gave me enough distance to effectively brake his draft by the end of the lap.

From there on it was just a mental slog as I worked to keep my lines as tidy and fast as possible with an increasingly skittish BT11 under me, even taking into account clive's slowing in the final section of the race I don;t think I could even have caught in the old style 50odd minute races - and all down to that T1 mistake at the start :'(

All in all possibly my first ever enjoyable race at Mexico so congrats to all!  ;D

 :D

np Rye , off course I do know you are a clean racer , no doubt .
thats why I only said that I am not lucky with that .
still to me a slightly to ambitious action considering there was a sort of accident ( FMG hitting the armco ) in front of us all . T1 peace agreement ....
btw to me that section ( inner curbs of T1 exit  ) is sort of warpy to me even offline ......
well from my side , I count it as a simple race incident , noo need to be worked on by admin..

cheers
NickyIckx

Not sure what happened to my inauspicious Amatures debut , combination of an unfamiliar car , (not sure if the Lotus was the right choice)  and a shortage of wheel time but I understeered right into a brick wall at the kink before the hairpin when trying to defend my next to last place  :)

I think I got me feet mixed up and stood on the gas instead of the brake , or was it both pedals at once , not sure but the end result was a Lotus 3 wheeler 33  ::)

How you guys are getting those brabs and brm's into the 51's is beyond me , I was way off the mark , maybe its a combination of my driving talent and the Mexican food , will stay off the jumping beans next time  :-[

I had a fantastic start. I think my clutchbutton got stuck or something cause my car did not move.(maybe some sticky stuff went down there during years of pornsurfing :angel:).I went out last and passed nick on the grass.He was very eager to pass me again and I didn t want to stay in the way. After some laps behind a very descent Phil who also tried to let me pass when I didn t mean to I got through and worked my way up to hmmm 7 th I think. Had a nice battle with Rye wich unfortunatly ended with a spin for him. Thx for clean racing to those I overtook.
oh almost forgot racelength: No big surprise for anyone I guess that I would love to have the 50 minutes instead of "long".I saw it would be fixed, but still felt for putting in a "vote".

I was as disappointed as you Bernie.  I was hoping for a battle with someone for the wooden spoon LOL.  It's normally mine by default. :wheelchair:

Yes amazing times, but something for us to aim at  ::)

Maybe we could have relived the Clubmans Cup , won't forget the great racing we had   ;D

Here's some additional stats for Mexico (subject to race moderation).

The opening round of the 4th Am's season & Evil Clive's victory moves him into second spot in the list of the division's alltime winners with 5 wins.
And for today's random stat, the only drivers to have won more than 1 Am's race are:

1. Hristo Itchov (9)
2. Evil Clive (5)
3. Full Metal Gasket (4)
4. Fulvio Policardi (3)
=5. John Roberts / Natan (2)
 
As far as the Statmeister challenge goes, not only did Evil Clive manage to lap more consistently than anyone else but he also claimed the quickest average laptime (1:52.836)

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_AwMtMND4F-o/S8OS9rdU7sI/AAAAAAAAADQ/KK2wFzRO3SI/s1600/Ams01a.png)

Details of what this is all about here (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=7653.msg135854#msg135854)

Hmm, interesting stat!  Remind me again why we run handicapped chassis!?!  :P

Statmeister,

I like these stats, it is good to see how consistently inconsistent I am  ;)

Cheers,

Jim

Not sure if this is the place to post, but what sort of times are people managing around Keimola.

I have done 10 laps with a modified Zandvoort setup and can scrape a 1:22.00

Hoping that this will be a mid-grid laptime?

James

I'm a little confused.  I know, doesn't take much!  :P

I admit to have done this occasionally in previous races, is it allowed or not?  ???

I think it's OK to try and break a tow (though it's not really effective most of the time), as long as you pick up a line well in advance before a braking zone and thus not surprise the driver behind. So as long as it's on a straight and as long as you're not doing it when the other car is too close, I don't see a problem.

Me neither H.   ;D

I’ve never had a problem with people weaving to break a tow but I would have said that it is a matter of distinguishing between weaving to break a tow and weaving to block.

Nothing wrong with the former but the latter is a heinous crime that gets everybody hot under the collar.

The difference is just a matter of who moves first. If the bloke in front moves out of the path of the bloke behind, where is the problem?

If the bloke behind moves across the track to make a passing attempt and the bloke in front also moves over, then that is blocking.

When the car behind is getting close and is about to move but the bloke in front moves over, then basically he has done the guy behind a favour.  However, as the lead car moves over he will have moved the other car into his blind spot and will have to cease his wanderings back and forth as he must assume that the other car is alongside.

It is probably the last point that causes the problem.  Some drivers have difficulty in “acknowledging” that the other car is alongside, even when it’s the other car that has done all the work and made his intentions crystal clear.  What chance does he stand of accepting where the other car is when he has confused the situation still further?

One thing about weaving to break a tow in GPL, or any other sim, is that it’s safe enough in a fight between two drivers who know what they are doing.  Lob a third car in there and it really shouldn’t be indulged in.  There is no way that you can always know where both of the other cars have got to.

I couldn't have said it better, Clive. I wish the FIA were not as dumb and adopt the same view instead of just calling "weaving" any two times (or more) a car changes its position on the road or saying they don't want to encourage breaking the tow. The morons should look at their stupid rules about aerodynamics instead...

There has been some lengthy discussions on the mods forum about breaking a tow. 

We have a clear rule about weaving to block.

We don't have any rules about weaving to break a tow.

I suggest we wouldn't want a group of drivers weaving down long straights like a snake, that is likely to end in crashes.  It hasn't happened as far as I can recall.  If it does, then we may want to change the rules.

At the end of the day trying to break the tow will only delay the inevitable IMO.  If the following car is faster they will catch up anyway.  If the following car needs the tow to get on terms, they won't pull away if they eventually overtake.  It should be relatively easy for the overtaken car to retake the position.  So IMO it would be better if we didn't bother trying to break a tow, if you are genuinely quicker you shouldn't need to.

Rest assured we won't introduce a rule on this without widespread consultation (and certainly not mid season).  If the drivers are happy with the rules as they stand then the rules will not be changed.  However if the moderators are regularly faced with incidents caused by "excessive weaving" (whatever we determine that to be) then we would have to introduce a rule for the guidance (and sanity) of the moderators.