SimRacing.org.uk

Here we go for our second helping of the Grads trophy. We ran one grid last time despite 30 signing up so hoping for a larger attendance this time round. Early days but John is leading the Works and I'm ( :o) leading the Privateers - in case you are quaking with fear don't worry, I'll be missing this race due to a holiday. Just remember this is Monaco on PRO...

Race List = IGOR
Server = UKGPL_T7_2
IP address = 62.149.202.168
Race date = 11-04-2010
Time = 21:00 UK time (BST = GMT+1)
Track = Monaco
Variant = 67F1
Damage Model = PRO
Qualifying time = 35 minutes. Don't start until 30 mins left on clock to allow everyone to join.
Race length = 50 minutes (laps 34)

Password: see above (#post_event_password)

Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R;group=248;theme=6)
The track can be downloaded from : original Papy track
Add-on’s available at : http://srmz.net/index.php?showtopic=3145 (http://srmz.net/index.php?showtopic=3145)

Please be in IGOR UKGPL chatroom by 8:50 pm UK Time = GMT).

Reserve drivers should not join the server until there are only 30 minutes of qualifying left. Please restrict chat to pit messages. Moderating will be by reported incidents only, however the moderators reserve the right to review any incident with a particular emphasis on lap one. The aim is to review the race the following weekend so incident reports should be submitted within five days of the race (ie the following Friday). We're hopeful most incidents can be resolved amicably and recommend a days deep breath with a replay review before posting. A sorry in the forum won't be taken as an automatic admission of guilt by the moderators.

With the token system chassis strategy will be a factor. A driver must have sufficient tokens for the chassis he drives in the race.  Any driver who does not have sufficient tokens will be disqualified from the result and his tokens will be set to zero.

Chassis costs;
Lotus 20 / Eagle 17 / Ferrari 15 / Brabham 10 / Cooper 5 / Honda 3 / BRM 0

To see your current tokens hover your mouse over your total points on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=248&theme=6). Ten tokens will be added when you cross the start line.

The Championship is split into two sub-divisions, namely Works and Privateers. The driver split will be;

WORKS drivers

Phil T	Evil	John R
Tim FMG	Steve Bird	Jethro
Al H	Bartosz (Pod)	King Hero
Rick	Baab	Hristo (R)
Sam B (R)	Fulvio P (R)	Ruud Savelkoul (R)
Dwarf Car Driver (R)

PRIVATEERS drivers

Bernie	Burtoner	Mike Turner
Vosblod	Bookie W	Billy
Fabio (Il Lupo)	Rafael Mestdag	Graham (R)
Pete Maestro (R)	Nigel Smith (R)	D Rock (R)
Hannah (R)

67 Patch: The 1.3 Release of the 67mod can be used.

NOTE: In the event of more then 19 entrants a second grid will be run for the Privateers on ukgpl.5. (ping myjamesonline.net) Instructions will be provided in the chatroom – please ensure you join the correct server, due to the way we import if you start the race on the wrong server your result will not count. If you can try to make sure you are in the chatroom by 8.50pm this will enable a decision without any delays to the start time.

ehm... I just realised that, at the same time, the MotoGP will race in Qatar: any chance to start the Graduates Cup one hour earlier?!?

I am away for this race but we do tend to stick to a fixed time of 9pm (UK) - changing it might not suit others. Your worst 2 races do get dropped from the final results which allows you to miss a couple.
The only exception is we worked the schedule around England world cup matches in June.

34 laps?! Oh my gods, I think my feet will break the pedals here. Best I order that Fanatec sharpish then.

34 is nothing compared to 100, that should be no more than 50 minutes.

I've hurt myself with a bad skiing crash and now I have to stay at bed for the next 2 weeks plus a couple of weeks of sofa and crutches cause a little pelvis fracture.  :'(
I'll try to be a spectator for the next races if this isn't a problem for you.
Ciao

Owch! Sorry to hear that Fulvio, hope you get better soon  :)

Any likelyhood of being able to join in using a control pad as Manteos has recently been doing on P&G after his own accident?
Far from ideal I know (I started playing GPL using analogue pads :ninja: ) but it might at least let you rack up some points for a few lotus's to help you when you recover  ;D

Sorry to hear that Fulvio.  Hope it all stitches back together properly.

hope too you get better soon .
maybe  going through all Myst worlds ( PC game ) will help staying in bed without getting crazy...

Hope things are not too painful Fulvio :-\ and I hope your recovery is quick.

If watching the rest of us bouncing off barriers around Monaco is entertaining, then I guess we should try and put on a good show  ::)

Get better soon, Fulvio. I had a car accident (crashed into a tree) on 4th of April and have hurt my knee and bruised my chest, but I think I should be able to drive tomorrow, even if in some pain. Couldn't move or walk much in the last few days though, lol. Was lucky there was no racing in the past week and previous weekend.  :P

Well I wish you would crash a bit more in GPL and a little less in real life!  Might give the rest of us a chance!  ;)

Hope you mend properly too!

Anyone else?!?

Very sorry to hear that Fulvio.  Get well soon. 

Sounds nasty Fulvio. Hope you're up & about soon.

I there a practice server available?  It would be very useful to practice race against humans.

Sorry to hear Fulvio and Hristo have injured themselves. Speedy recovery to both, especially Fulvio. I know skiing accidents can take a while to recover from.

I managed to injure my knee running this weekend, so this race should be an interesting test of stamina for myself.

OK, this was a complete joke. This is the worst track you chose to combine the two grids on one server.

I could barely get a clean lap in Qualifying, there were people 20 seconds off the pace.

Then in the race I caught up a backmarker on lap 5 (!), I slowed down, waited for him to decide what to do, man, he was cruising on the straight after T1, I tried to show myself in his right-side mirror and gradually went on his side, but he hit me and I lost a wheel and retired from the lead.

Please rerun this race... what a joke.

I survived some laps but then got caught behind the backlapper for 2 laps or so. got hit from behind just after that and lost a wheel. I think it could be indirectly related to the frustration after those two laps.
. No bad feelings to the new guy. He s most welcome, but we should have some kind of test maybe? at least an approval from somebody before someone new enters a competitive race where we struggle for points.
this doesn t happen often so it s not a big problem at least :). And I can see issues with reruns..the podium finishers etc..
And get well soon Fulvio and Hristo..

I agree totally but I would throw in the "F" word about 5 times.  No need to "sleep on it", or "wait a while" before posting.  It's plain and simple, H. Hurricane (and possibly some others) should simply not have been allowed to race in a "Graduates" Cup race.  Her (Is it Hanna?) driving in qualifying was that of someone with about 1 hour's GPL experience.  That is NOT an exaggeration.  His/Her "race" driving was just as bad.  He/she ruined my f 'ing race on about lap 10.  Are we that desperate to fill the grid?  If any more drivers of this caliber are allowed to drive in this division you can count me out.  I work too hard getting ready for a race just to have some beginner ruin it for me before I even get warmed up.

And Hristo, you can forget about a re-do.  There was good reason last season to do one after we started Zandvoort about 30-45 minutes late with the laps accidentally set for about 12.  Some people saw the length change in chat and some (still qualifying) didn't.  So several guys ran with about 30 laps fuel load.  Twelve lap race, wrong fuel load for several... but no redo.   ???

This happens with new arrivals in another league I run in - they get vetted before they run in a competitive race to make sure they're capable of running at a speed which isn't detrimental to other competitors, that they know what the rules are, that they know where the mirrors are, and how to use them, and that they've at least got some experience in the cars. Other drivers, both experienced and inexperienced can sit in on the test race and offer their expertise on whether the new recruit is good enough for a first competitive race.

I think Mr(?) Hurricane would do well to practice off-line with other cars, before entering another Pro rules race. It's OK to be consistently off the pace, but 40 seconds a lap off the pace and scared to use full throttle on the straight bits is dangerously slow, especially at Monaco with Pro rules (i.e. no Shift-R). At least please be aware of where other cars are, and if you are going to be so slow, move OFFLINE and stay there.

As for my own race, after getting the best start and leaping past Al and evil on the run to Ste Devote, I set about not making mistakes. Then the slow car arrived on the scene to ruin H's race and cause my heart to skip a couple beats up the hill to Massenet. I did toy with the idea of punting that car off on the run to Station hairpin, but thought better of it. I then came unstuck on the run down to Tabac, and ended up with 3 wheels on my white wagon. Game over! Move on, I guess. 2 races down, one race finished.

Missed this one  :'(

Was  pratting about swapping HDD's looking for old GPL files then for some reason the PC didnt want to recognise my new HD  :-\

By the time I got it sorted the race was half done , perhaps as well , didn't miss much it seems from the above comments and would probably been just another "mobile chicane" for the aliens to negotiate .

Feel sorry for the Newby , babtism of fire,  no doubt exagerated by having a mixed grid at the toughest track in the world for any newby , not a good idea , IMO of coarse .

Well, after inheriting 1st from Hristo after his incident all was for naught due to my engine blowing a lap and a half from the finish  :(

WD finishers  :)

Tried to join but kept timing out on the connection screen. Have to agree with bernie, it doesn't look like I missed much, but it still would have been nice to try and survive and get some decent points.

Firstly commiserations to Tim - really cruel luck for the engine to let go right at the end when you had the race virtually won. I'd already blown an engine in qually so was uber-paranoid for the race, perhaps a little too paranoid. Had Clive large in my mirrors for the opening laps & then made the classic Monaco mistake of turning in too early at the final hairpin - I lightly bumped the inside kerb which chucked me into the armco on the outside. Dropped 2 places there, then while recovering managed to tangle with John who I hadn't realised was also alongside. Sorry about that John - luckily we both seemed to escape any major damage but after all that I'd managed to drop from 3rd to 8th in the space of 2 laps :-\. After that Bartosz seemed to run very wide at the Station Hairpin so I took a tight line to overtake which looked OK from my view but perhaps didn't leave Bart with any choice so apologies if that seemed a bit iffy! Got held up a bit behind HH which dropped me further behind the Evil-Rick-John group but with people dropping off the leaderboard like flies I decided to take it a little easier for the 1st half of the race. Was trying not to over-rev the engine through the chicane but had eased off too much as Bob/Baab was closing very quickly so then spent the second half of the race pushing pretty hard in a Prib timing battle with Bob. (The results say that Bob was a lap down but I think that might be incorrect because he started from the pitlane?) Anyway managed to stay ahead to the flag & was lucky to inherit the last podium place after Tim's demise. Congratulations to Evil & JR ahead.

On the other hot topic, I think it's up to us to ensure new joiners are up to speed. When I first joined UKGPL, I was asked to do an online practice with a mod & some seasoned campaigners just to assess my driving & make sure I understood the pitfalls of online racing (which I had never done before). Doing your first race at Monaco, in 67's with PRO rules & a mixed ability grid is truly a baptism of fire. 

[This happens with new arrivals in another league I run in - they get vetted before they run in a competitive race to make sure they're capable of running at a speed which isn't detrimental to other competitors, that they know what the rules are, that they know where the mirrors are, and how to use them, and that they've at least got some experience in the cars. Other drivers, both experienced and inexperienced can sit in on the test race and offer their expertise on whether the new recruit is good enough for a first competitive race.]

I feel sorry for "Hannah" ( male or female??)  being dropped into such a tough race, but maybe Monaco was not the place for baptism?
Undoubtedly he/she was out of their depth as I almost came to grief trying to lap them on at least 2 occasions. At least I survived, where others did not.

Oddly enough, I was "vetted" ( the bruising soon went down ) when I applied to join UKGPL some years ago. Clive Loynes got me to join a "pick-up" race one Saturday at Monza. At the time I knew none of the names, nor did I have any idea of etiquette or race craft ( nothing much has changed ::) ) and I was pitted against Nat Wald and John Bradbury  ( I think) . I later discovered that these were bona fide fire breathing aliens and I was expected to keep pace with them..HAHA!! yeah right!!.
 Maybe we should schedule "assesment" races when we have prospective new members who can then be looked at and a decision made?
As for the race...
Lousy start, and Jethro jumped me....but this was a long race and I was happy to take a lap or two to get the tyres up to temp before i started pressing Al who was ahead of me. Slowly I moved up the leader board as various people disco'd for various reasons until I found myself in 2nd spot about 10 secs behind Tim who was flying. The regular encounters with a certain backmarker caused a closing up of my battles with cars trying to catch me until they fell foul of that particular obstacle. I could match Tim for speed but could not close the gap without risking everything including the delicate Waza turbine, so I tried to keep him within range  in case he made a mistake. Our pace drew us away from John who was in 3rd spot but with 5 laps to go I settled for 2nd spot and started short shifting to ensure I had fuel to last to the flag.
Then with 3 laps to go suddenly there were yellow flags and Tim was no longer in front...I was leading!!! It seems that Tim's efforts had trashed the Brabham engine and he had retired.
So, Waza  technology survived to the end of a race that saw all but 5 cars fall by the wayside. Harsh luck on Tim but I have been there and I know how frustrating it feels.

Can't decide which is worse ?

trying to pass a wobbly newby  ::)

jethro coming up behind  :o

or evil leaning on yer doorhandle  :D












I'll get me coat  :)

I would suggest three other options for consideration

1 Evidence to be provided of online racing history and this be assessed by a moderator and the new driver either accepted or sent to race in 65's Nov's for first few races

2 All new drivers start in 65 Nov's for at least a few races.

3 Run the 67's series as per 65's series. Have a Nov's with shiftR, and AMs at Pro level

Personally I would like to see races for Nov's in 67's with shiftR. I am put off trying 67s on a regular basis knowing I am going to crash and end not only my race but feel guilty probably wiping someone else out with me. Ok I know I should practice 67's more and get used to them, but I haven't yet.

Shocking race for me, which ended up in taking a teamy out, so very annoyed with that.  Sorry Tom.

I too feel a bit sorry for our new member.  Perhaps a little more advice and guidance and a little less criticism may help our newer drivers.  It's not the easiest thing to drive after all, and very bloody daunting the first online races.  I still get nervous after few years of doing this.

Having said that, perhaps a review of new drivers abilities is worthwhile, and then followed up by encouraging newbies to reach a suitable level to race effectively and safely.  Some might do well to remember, we all had to start somewhere!

Sadly the Repco lump hadn't even been thrashed into submission Clive  :( - Owing to my total lack of knowledge re. how sturdy it was (and blowing an engine within the first lap while following Tom in practice! :o ) I was actually taking it easy on the engine from about the 3rd lap on - reasoning being I wouldn't catch Hristo unless he blew up or crashed no-matter what I did, and I was fast enough while taking it easy not to worry too much about advances from the rear (ohh err!)
Don't know if my replay shows it but I actually missed 3rd exiting Tabac and that's what blew my engine  :-[


As for our new member; I feel their best bet given their obvious lack of experience would be a season in the Novs to get a better handle on how to drive these beasties - a 312 isn't the hardest of chassis at Monaco IMO but as has been mentioned, a full on Pro rules battle is perhaps not the best place to start carving out a GPL career.
Hope Hannah isn't put off too much by the harsher comments above but if I were in Her (his?) shoes I'd seriously consider the Novs to get me a good grounding and some help and advice away from the Aliens  :)

I've no wish to anticipate the moderator's review of the two Hs incident but in HH's defence and having watched the replay several times I have to say that blame for the incident does not seem to be entirely one sided. As has been said many times, the most important element of safe overtaking is patience and choosing the right moment.

Yes I agree Steve, it is our "system" of introducing new blood that we need to address not the lack of experience of the newbie, as I'm sure that they are doing the best that they can. Monaco was one circuit where I would not have wanted to make my 67 debut for sure  ::)

As for  novice and amateur servers in 67, that would be ideal, BUT only if there are sufficient numbers in each class to produce reasonable grids.

Unfortunately the reason why we have a single 67 race, is because numbers for 67 races dropped to a level where 2 races of 4 or 5 drivers was just no fun for anyone. However if we could get enough interest to generate two grids of 10 drivers then .... who knows??

Nobody criticized anyone before the race, but I will not spare criticism against the new driver or the management. It ruined my race without any fault on my side and was something that could have been easily avoided had more consideration been done not to run a merged field at Monaco nor let the driver debut at Monaco.

What's the point of preparing and turning up for races when you (and others, potentially) are taken out like this and it affects your whole Championship. I didn't join the Graduates division to race with newbies who don't even use their mirrors...

I still hope the mods would consider a rerun.

If you really watched the replay you'll see me stepping totally on the brakes to come down to the backmarker's speed, which was nearly half the speed at which you'd usually go through at this part of the track (the run up from T1 to T2). Not only that, but I cruised behind, showed myself on the right side, and was hoping he/she would've seen me by then.

Only someone who doesn't use their mirrors, doesn't listen to engine noise and doesn't pay attention to blue flags (he/she got at least 1) wouldn't have seen me. That's why I went, carefully, on his/her ride side, but he/she just turned right over the crest and sent me into the barrier which ripped my wheel off.

Sorry, but I don't expect and I'm not going to cruise at half speed for half a lap just because someone has zero experienced in GPL and doesn't use their mirrors. Is this Graduates division or what?

I agree H, it is frustrating, and especially so to you fast boys!  However, I don't think it could have been predicted to the degree that the lack of speed and newbie ability would affect this race.  I'm sure the mods will review, react and advise on the best way forward in due course.  Hindsight is always 20/20.

It's not the first as sure as heck wont be the last time a back marker has decided a championship.  I think you of all people can turn it around and make best of the challenge this can now present in the remainder of the season. It might even be fun! Thanks heavens it wasn't the deciding race.



Has anyone PM'd Hannah with a suggestion of joining Nov's?  Joining a UKGPL pick-up race to gain some experience? The poor guy/girl may now be scared to come back and not know where to turn next.  I'll be more than happy to try and help where I can with my limited knowledge of driving and vast experience of being lapped!  At risk of treading on toes I'll send a quick note now, but they perhaps could do with more sound advise and guidance from the more GPL educated amongst us.

For the record there were only 4 privateers so it was MY decision to run a single grid so please don't criticise the new driver; it was not his fault.  Anyway we always intended to run one grid if the numbers were low that is why both races are the same length and both are PRO rules.  Everyone knew that at the start of the season.  We normally assess new drivers and advise those without much on-line experience to enter the Novices.  Unfortunately in this case it doesn't appear to have happened.  I need to check with Vos (he is running the division but isn't back from hols until the 18th) to find out if Hannah was checked out before the start of the season.  I didn't know anything about Hannah before last night.

One thing is for sure, there couldn't have been a worse race to make a GPL debut.  PRO rules at Monaco in the 67s with Aliens at every turn must be the hardest race there is.  

Please submit incident reports as you see fit but please no more newbie bashing; it was my decision - complaints to me please.
 

Well I don't think that this race should be rerun, just because few drivers were unlucky to crash because of one backmarker.

I do think that something should be done to prevent this kind of situations. My proposal is that every new driver should be tested by one of mods, or other driver elected by the mods. During this test our new driver needs to prove that he/she is able to drive safely in the race.

Hristo, I know that you're quite frustrated, but please next time when something bad happens to you remamber this:


Your's moaning about rerun was very distracting, and few seconds later I had no wheel. I'm not saying that it was your's fault, but please next time just shut up.

Mixed grids is a bit of a dilemma.
I would much rather run on a split grid where the racing is more evenly matched and the faster guys don’t have to trip over backmarkers.
Nevertheless the simple fact is 29 drivers are signed up for the 67’s but there were 15 on the starting grid at Monaco. (This may be partly due to assorted holidays and injuries and also that Monaco is a rather challenging track ). We do however need to encourage both new drivers and those drivers that are on the books to turn up and race. If the 67 league becomes to elitist it will dwindle to nonexistence.
Peter suggests a '67 Novices grid with Shift R ~ perhaps something to think about.

For my own race I’ve spent a couple of weeks trying to find a set up that was reasonably controllable. Managed to get a 1.33 lap on Saturday which didn’t seem too bad (if you ignore Hristo  / FMG in the 1 min 25S / 26’s). Was half expecting several absences so just crossing the start line would be worth a few points in the Privateers.   

Tried to allow plenty of room for the fast chaps to pass me easily – points wise we were in a different race. Only gripe I do have is with Bob Whitwell where his overtakes were (in my opinion) rather rash and & in the wrong places. Going into the hairpin at Virage and a few laps later in Tabac. I would have happily let him by on the straights. First incident I got clipped and span – it’s a nasty place to do a 3 point turn with one eye on Prib hoping nobody else would be coming round the corner at speed. Anyhow I’ll have a look at the replay before putting in a report.

Managed 20 laps before coming to grief into the chicane. Should have exited the race immediately but took me a short while to do the “oh bugger” and then confirm I really had lost a wheel rather than for it to miraculously reappear from the hay bales. (That doesn’t happen on Pro settings).

Thought I’d take the master class and watch FMG for the last few laps. Looked like a first race win for Black Night Racing was on the cards until his engine blew in the tunnel. Technically I did win the Privateers but coming fist out of four doesn't feel much like a victory.
Bad luck FMG and well done to the finishers – 34 laps at Monaco is a real challenge. 

Sorry for the chat, I reacted emotionally out of frustration. It's still bothering me and I hope the administration learns a good lesson from this fiasco.

I agree... an idling practiceserver for upcoming race if thats possible.I would go there instead of practice offline and then maybe someone else show up too :).gplracer seem to have one up at all times...   ::)

If you're talking about me I take issue with your judgment that I was impatient.  Like Hristo I slowed tremendously after being jinked going up the hill.  Silly me, I assumed a blue flagged back marker was letting me by at an obviously good place to make that happen.  But I wisely refrained from attempting that pass and followed HH right up to the Massenet curve where he clipped the curb and checked-up to a near stop with me 15ft from his tail pipes.  You have to remember I had no idea just how much he was struggling to simply drive the car.  I didn't have any idea who he was or how bad his skills were.  I've made lots of passes around back markers (and have been the back marker many many times) but this was no ordinary back marker!  And don't forget there were guys chasing me.

So, OK, it's not totally his fault for being in a race he should not have been in.  But at some point he should have deduced how much trouble he was having and causing and just decided to give it up.  The fact that he didn't tells me it was possibly his first ever online race and he thought it was all just for casual fun.


So is it safe to assume HH's gender is male?  Not that it matters but it would be nice to know which pronoun to use.

Though it may not seem like it here... I'm really over this.  Looking forward to Donington where I will be driving from a hotel room if I make it at all.  That's another reason some mid-week practice races would be useful.  I'd like to know if my connection is going to be adequate.

Congrats on the win Bill. :thumbup1:

In Privateers you in 2nd place and Black Night Racing holding First place in the series.
 :jumpjoy:

Allow me to distract you from the serious debate with some more of my pointless stats.

For this week's random stat, we looked at which active Grads driver gave the best 'bang-for-buck' last season or to put it another way, who got the best points return for the least token spend?   

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_AwMtMND4F-o/S8RSBeK49gI/AAAAAAAAADw/hvTfUH0bb9g/s1600/Token.png)


Onto the latest Monaco race & another poor turnout from the Privateers means the Rookie competition will have to wait until we get some more entries. None of the Privateers made it to the finish, however both Billy Nobrakes & Bookie still managed climbs of 7 places from their starting slots. Here's the updated tables for the Privateers

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_AwMtMND4F-o/S8RcIu9_zrI/AAAAAAAAAD4/q8Hfrtl23UY/s1600/Privs02.png)


In the Works results, race winner Evil Clive also took the Monaco consistency prize with an average deviation of 0.720 over 34 laps (ave laptime 1:29.729) while Full Metal Gasket did enough to move to the top of the leaderboard. Incidentally a perfect score for this race would have been 170 (that would be the score for 0.00 deviation in laptime over 34 laps) so considering the traffic-congestion of Monaco Evil Clive's 145 points was impressive.

Baab claimed the high-climber award after making up 7 places on his starting position & also climbs to the head of both that table & the Rookie competition.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_AwMtMND4F-o/S8RkYcWTrZI/AAAAAAAAAEA/hKasKT9Bxac/s1600/Works02.png)

N.B. a consistency score of 0.00 means that a driver was outside the 5 second average lap deviation cutoff - details of how this all works here (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=7653.msg135854#msg135854)

Thanks Statmeister. Can't make my mind up if the data irrelevant or fascinatining but, as you say,  a bit of light relief from the fall out of Hurricance Hannah.
If I send you the data for the Spec Race comparisons can you publish in one of your fancy tables?
... Billy

Haven't I got enough tables to post already!?

I'm sure we can come to some agreement (if the price is right). I'll email you ;)

Not really, as I said I didn't know anything about HH until Sunday night. 

As Mike said, I hope this hasn't put him or her off.  We need a steady stream of newbies.

You lot would put anyone off  :D

Firstly, as regards HH, I didn't do the usual PM - as I recall it was just prior to posting the race before my holiday. Privateers is the 67 equivalent of Novices so that seemed the best option following no result on a GPL Rank search. Lesson learnt for next time.
TBH I do tend to treat people as grown ups and assume you have put in a bit of practice before Registering. If you are new new I would assume you'd go for our Novices starter league - but then again assumption is the mother or all f**k ups so I hear  ;D

Anyway I'm dead against any sort of test/trial prior to entry - probably because I'd never have joined UKGPL if there had been one. Provided you can make it round a few laps without causing carnage that's what the Novices is for. I'll make a mental note to do a PM next time but you can't cater for last minute entrants. Personally, and with the luxury of being on holiday for Monaco, if I'd found myself way off the pace in Qually I would pull out of the race if it was one grid.

Unfortunately our hoped for two grids has not transpired so far despite 30 drivers registering. Maybe we are going wrong somewhere and putting people off? (Don't mention PRO  :wacko:)

It says it in the rules!

Ha ha you got me. That's good for pre-season as we do fun races then but I wouldn't want to stop people joining mid-season. Note made to check out new new members, most come via IGOR so we get to see how they do in our unofficial practice sessions.

You have to be sensible though and not risk ruining other people's races just because someone wants to race. It's good that they do, but they need to have some basic abilities to ensure all is fine.

You can't have people who are at such a vast speed difference, who obviously are still learning how to drive and learning the track, and above all - people who are not using their mirrors and don't realize when is the time to stop for the sake of others.

Practicing offline or on pickup servers costs nothing and it doesn't endanger anyone. For a serious league like UKGPL I don't want to expect races being treated like pickup races, stripped of all seriousness...