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Practice 1: 19:20 (~60 mins)
Qual 2: 20:20 (20 mins)
Race: 20:40 (27 laps (~40mins)) note: no warmup!

Cars allowed: Lotus Elite  Vs  Mustang NTK gr5  Vs  Mustang BSCC Gr2 (ATCC)

Weather: Dry
Track:  UKGTR Brands Hatch 2005 GP (v1.0.1.0) (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3356.msg54521#post_brands)
Time of Day Setting: 15:00
Start: STANDING

Tyre wear: x2
Fuel consumption: x2

Minimum Pit-stops: Only if you need one  >:D.

Server: UKPnG2.1 Triple
Password: see above (#post_event_password)

Notes:
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(6) Remember that P&G has no 'Pit Speed Limiter' function, but our gentleman's agreement is that everyone will stick to a speed limit for the pit-lane of 40mph/60kph.

You might have just seen the available cars & thought "That's an odd line up"... and you'd be right.

We've tried this format once before & I was gutted to miss it, so it's back :angel:... it's going to be a bit of a 'tortoise & hare' type race.... but where the fastest Elite+Mustang drivers finish together (I hope).

Please pay extra attention to the race details for this one.

p.s. last time the Alpine had too big an advantage (i.e. its oponent the Mustang didn't make up enough time every lap to cover it's pit stop length), I fully anticipate this will be closer... if anything I'm worried the Mustang might have the edge this time. :-\


Please please can you do me a favour in the next couple of days if you do any testing & post your times for both cars. I will very quickly then be able to see if the ATCC is too quick & downgrade it to the TransAM or BSCC Gr5.

Ta.

Isn't there a cheaty ATCC with something like 400 horsepower? It is the white one if memory serves me right.

I'll be glad when you get this out of your system Legzy, 'cos I think it sucks.  Mainly because all the people who select the Lotus will ram into the back of those in Mustangs in the first few corners and totally destroy the whole "finely balanced" concept.

My best is 1:46 in the ATCC #1 on its white spot tyres and 1:53 in the Elite.  Should give me time for a shower and change of overalls, never mind tyres!  ;D

It's also a bit of a bugger if we have to wait until Wednesday night before we find out which cars are going to be allowed.

Why couldn't we just have an Elite race or a Mustang race or a Jaguar Owners Day?  LOL

Oh!  And I can't stand tortoises either.  :P

Not that it matters much as two of my three test sessions have ended with a screen freeze.

That strikes me as a good mustang laptime  :o but a carp Elite time :P
I could do with a couple more times people when you can, particularly those who can excel in the elite. Sooner they come in, the sooner I can fix the mustang model (we don't want Clive waiting till Wednesday to find out ;))

Had a couple of dozen laps here and my best so far is a 1:50.5xx. I should be able to get that down slightly with more practice, but it's a tricky track to be consistently quick in the Elite. A nice slow Mustang then please Legzy ;)

LOL

Perhaps there is a sneaky fast Elite with sticky boots as well?

I can't get the setups out to the lads if I don't know which cars to use.

EDIT
EuK!  Someone please tell Legzy what he wants to know about the Elite.  Another test session and another screen freeze with the gutless understeering heap now logged.  I never get to save my setups because I have to hit the reset but still not bettered a high 53.

EDIT 2

If Legzy gets this right on the basis of qualifying times I shall be amazed.

Whereas the Elite is its normal turgid self if run from now until doomsday, the tyre wear and heating on the Mustangs lead to all manner of changes.  I find that I cannot do as good a TT lap as I can practice because the TT lap starts with all the tyres in the green zone.  The first lap is no use because I can’t start it at the right pace and on the second lap the tyre balance is all pollocks!

Do you have a MoTeC data file for that lap please Tudor?

I want to know where the other three seconds are lurking!

You must be flat through something that I think is a corner.

I'll swap you an ATCC lap.  ;D

Clive, you have mail :)

Yep, ta and so do you.

And I'm getting all excited...................

Only another two days before we find out what we can drive!

Did a few laps in both. Best in the Elite was a 49.8, which would come down a bit with practice. In the ATCC I got a 44.7 but that was on white spot tyres which disappear at an alarming rate. On harder rubber the laptime would probably be a bit slower - not sure how much though. I had About 6 gallons in the elite and 11 in the ATCC.

White ATCC 1:47.2
White Elite   1:53.2

Took me 7 laps to get a complete one in with Elite, so I got bored and quit. Never liked Elite
Tried the Blue ATCC with less power, and was around 2 secs slower in it
All times with race fuel.

OK thanks all, enough of you have shown that I can't drive a Stang for carp. ::)
The ATCC (with your times) is obviously too fast, so I've added some other Stangs to the mix to test. I'm going on the server now for some testing with Spanner if you're bored... :)

I'll make a call tonight/2moz. :-\

OK, the Mustang ATCC has been downgraded to the Mustang BSCC GR2. Allowing for the Stang's pitstop, we should now have a close finish (I hope) :laugh:.

I've also quoted the most important bits of info about the race above... taking it easy through the early turns (particularly the first four!) on Lap one goes without saying!

Judging by where the game stored my hot lap from last night the server isn't running the UKGTR version of the track?

Just have to figure out what a pit stop is worth now.

had hoped to join a few of you on the server this eve but it wasnt up  :(

1:49's in the elite for me so far. Feels great around here, shame the 4th gear is too long.

I'm now slower with this new Mustang than most people are in the Elite.
Tough call.

I'm not sure I can do 27 laps in the Elite on a tankful, I reckon it will only do 25 laps. Might have to run higher gearing or take it a bit easy.

Best I've managed so far is 1.49.5.

It is a close call for me.

I can't decide which I hate most, the Elite or the pitstop!

The times are quite well balanced too!  In the 48s with the BSCC but it's a question of which car do I put the effort into at this point as I expect that they will both yield a bit more when pushed.

I'm sorry guys, but I can't make it to this race. I'll be working all day in the city. Looks like you may be poised for another championship Ian.

That looks like it will be, after Matts rotten luck lately, another dissapointing end to some great fun. Fingers crossed you can get away Mike.

Will be on late tonight, after MARA race, for some pracci if anyone fancies it. I have no dea what will be the fastest package  ???

I have.


You!

Help..... Is it me or has the server gone AWOL ???

Yon merry server has come off leave

yup, there was an error on the server... now sorted :)

Thanks

Couple of us had issues getting into the lobby tonight, was stuck saying "please wait"... but seemed to sort itself out after a few goes.


There are now a handful of us practicing on the server... (trying out a different Mustang as the BSCC Gr2 now seems slow :-[)

i cant get in the track on the server. I constantly get 'track not installed' message but i have even downloaded it from here again to no avail. Also tried deleting the hat file but no go.  ???

Have a look in your P&G folder MJ, it installed it in another game folder in P&G when i did it.

works offline though Ade  ???

i tried exiting the game and or lobby but no joy.

Brands2005 appears in the locations folder. Take it thats the right one. Have raced here before at with P&G srouk no problem

They seem to update the tracks without telling us so i'd recomend re-downloading it and making sure its in the right place.

It's going to be the Mustang NTK gr5   (not the BSCC gr2)


I should be embarrassed, but luckily all the Mustangs use the same setup give or take a click & drive very similar...  :-*

Not sure what to suggest MJ... remember it's the UK version we're using ???

So its simply Stang NTK versus Elite? No trans am Stang?

Not griping just want some clarification :) Its gonna be fun anyways.

Humph!

well i downloaded the track from the first post in this thread only last night so cant see how i could be running a different version.

I was doing 1:50 in the BSCC gr2 stang...but i see thats changed again anyway. Im gonna be an Elite pilot assuming i can get on.
Can someone test the install link on here to see where it may be popping up. Last night only the Humyo link was working. The other had the files missing according to the host.

The UKGTR installer created a GTR2 folder within PnG for me but as I had another version of Brands Hatch I didn't notice it, apart from getting booted from server. I simply dragged it out from GTR2 folder and placed it in locations, works now. Double check that the right version is in the right place?

It did that to me too the first time.  After that I noticed that it had put \GTR\ on the end of the file location after I had selected my PnG install.

I just removed the GTR bit an all was well.

Speaking as a newbie, who needs lots of practice before these races, I must say that finding out which cars can be used on the morning of the race just doesn't work for me!

No news on Oran Park yet either.  ::)

Legzy's work rate on our behalf has been enormous but I just question the practicalities of this format unless the race director has a team of thousands working behind him.  Can we keep it simple?  A Mustang race or an Elite race would have been fine by me, why make it difficult?

While I agree that the amount of work needed for this format is crazy, it shouldn't affect you that much Clive. The Mustangs all drive in much the same way and a setup that works for one should largely work for the others too.

I agree about the setups Paul, I have used much the same on all variants.

Just a bit miffed that having done simulated half length race runs on x6 tyre and fuel using the BSCC on its Firestones I can now chuck all that out of the window and just guess what the NTK on its Dunlops might need.  My conclusion was that my Elite and my BSCC were very close over race distance, assuming the Elite will go the distance on a tank full.

The Indy Ws 104 tyres on the BSCC are rated 7 on grip and medium on wear.  I reckoned that I was good for 18 laps on them = a tank full of juice.  This would have allowed me to minimise the amount of fuel needed to go in at the pit stop, saving time.

The CR65 970 Dunlops are rated 8 in grip, which is why the car appears to be a bit quicker.  But they are rated as soft.  I suspect that they will be shot before the fuel has run out.  The alternative tyre is the CR65 184 but that is rated at 6 on grip and will, I suppose, be near the BSCC on Firestones.  Just guessing you understand, with a possible whole hour of practice time left, max!

I am left wondering why we needed this late change.   ::)

In the end, I think that I am better off going for the Elite, although I hate the heap!  That way, I do not run the risk of messing up the pit stop and as I have already done some practice with it, which strangely enough is still valid, I stand more chance of building on that rather than messing with the NTK.  Despite it being the same on paper, I have always found it a little more "tail happy" than the BSCC.

Clearly the decision was taken in the interests of a close race - Chris thought that the bscc was just not quick enough to compete with the Elite. I think I'd agree with him that the car change is a price worth paying given that the 2 cars are not very different.

But are they different?

The power and weight are the same.  It all hinges on how far into the race the CR65 970 tyres last before they become a liability.  If the NTK has to split the race into two equal halves then it will have to stand still in the pits for a bit longer.

I don't know the answer and nobody else seems to either.  I might as well select my car by tossing a coin.

Those who have already selected the Elite are sitting pretty.

That's kinda the point of the race Clive and why Legzy has had to spend alot of time trying to work it all out (hopefully ;) )

I put the harder tyres on the front of the NTK and it understeers far worse than any of the others
i tried. I can't drive the Elite effectively, but the NTK is masochism, If I feel like some self harm
when I get home I will join.

 ;) Have a good one tonight guys, I've not had a chance to turn a wheel, and as pc has been a bit flaky also I'd not want to waste a slot, plus I'm going backwards lately!

Don't know what you're doing to have it understeery ??? Oily & me are struggling with oversteer!! :laugh:

Legzy's Mustang NTK setup
Tyres = Dunlop 184 (the harder ones)
Front AR = 2.20
Rear AR = 2.00
Front Springs = 70
Rear Springs = 50
Front toe = -0.2
Front Camber = -2.0
Caster = 7.0
Front Ride Height = 15cm
Rear Ride Height = 17cm
All other settings = Do what you need to fine tune.

Because we have some drama queens worry warts old women concerned drivers.... I've added the BSCC gr2 back in ;)

It seems to be about a second slower in most peoples hands then the NTK, but apparently not everyone's....

Besides, in my younger days, I'm sure I drank a triple once :o ;D


(fuel consumption & tyre wear are pretty much the same too :P)

right hopefully sorted the track install. Whoever is making the zip exe files is pathing it wrong. Its creating a dir called GTR2 under the program files\PnG folder. I found the last few tracks in there too !

I'd like to thank everyone for humoring me on that one.

I had a great race & hope I wasn't the only one.

Well done Ade & Ginsters.... So unlucky MJ, I was watching you & Ade trading places all race long!!! 8)

That makes a change and was a fun once off but I don't think it made for a better race. Gotta say the balance was very good though.

Nice fight with Paul for first half of race, good to see him  :) Gapped him a little up to pits and then I made a right horlicks of me pitstop. Sat there waiting for fuel to go in and rugger all was happening, then realised I had to turn my own engine off (those old timers had it tough not like GTR2) . That meant Paul just jumped me and I was looking forward to the fight till the end on worn tyres as I presumed he didn't change them to save time like me. Disappointed when he left shortly after. Then just picked off Elites as them came and was very lucky to get past MJ one lap from home (I bet he was thinking "I did this line in my 911" instead of driving the Elite  ;)). In reality I wasn't really racing them and only had fun with Paul who would have been there no matter what car choice was.

Congrats to Ade, MJ and Geoffers for great pace in the Elite. Good on you for trying new formats Legzy, what we would we know without trying it? Not for me that one but it was fun to try  :)

Great fun, The NTK was understeery in my hands because i go into corners wayyy to fast,Oh and I have softs on the rear, and they wear less than half of the fronts. (sorry for the paint scratches Oily,) and the others seemed to cope better. liked the BRRRRRRRCCCC thingy, but I think the Hare's were again too handicapped against the tortoises
Myself, Oily, Legzy and Clive were being chased by a couple of the faster Eliteists. The original ATCC was probably too fast
Ian would have won even if he'd gone for a pee during the pitstop.

All the same great racing all round.
Nice one Mr Legz. 8)

I had an awful race.

I think that I picked the wrong car and then probably put the wrong tyres on it.

Just when I could have had my moment of glory at the front, I went and dropped it at Hawthorns.

Then I stuck it in reverse and my other brain cell took sooooo long to work out how to find 1st that the two leading Elites managed to pass me.

Well done to those who got it right.

That was brilliant fun !....surreal for me, having been on the real track the same time last week ! but this was just as much fun and adrenaline pumping (well almost ;) )

Qualied only 3rd of the Elites, couldnt get near my praccy times but i blame the racing line tyre marks disapearing making it hard to hit every apex spot on! :P

Race was just pure brilliant action  8) from the green lights until lap 26 of 27 for me  ::) I had expected a real tussle all night with a gaggle of cars but apart from the early laps it was just me and Ade bumper to bumper swapping places about 25 times throughout the race with the odd mustang in the mix, that we kept catching and slowing us down !
After the pit stops it looked like it was going to be a photo finish between the pair of us for 1st place as the stangs were too far behind to catch us. If anything we gave them some time just by the pair of us fighting so much! But then inexplicably on lap flipping 26 of 27 coming out of clearways, where i hadnt had a hint of a wobble all race, my back end stepped out whilst full on the gas in 3rd ! and when i tried to correct i got snap oversteer that sent me off backwards across the gravel trap  :'( i lost 15 seconds and had to watch painfully as Ginsters came steaming along and nicked 2nd from me. So not only i lost the chance to fight Ade to the very finish line but i lost a place too  :taz:

Ah well, such is the life of a racing car driver  ;D fantastic fun, awesome track and the cars suited it perfectly. Big congrats to Ade and Ginsters.  8)

I dropped it at Hawthorns too, only I did it a couple of hour before the race: http://www.melbournepubs.com/venue/316/   ;D

Stig / Hotkeys

Results & Replay in the usual places & Goldtop is one step closer to being trained up ;D

Well, that was better than the last 2 outings, but they were not hard to beat! Family stuff looked like keeping me out, but there was time in the end and the server wasn't full this time. Had very little prep, especially for the race bits, so had no great expectations but hoped for some fun. Got 2nd on the grid behind Ian and the 2 of us left everyone behind quite quickly. Ian soon settled down to a pace I couldn't match though so I was just trying to lap consistently. Pitting was going to be slow because I'd been advised that the stang needed no extra fuel, but it clearly did. It took a couple of laps of calculation before I was ready to stop, by which time we were way past half distance. I got into the pitlane OK, hit the brakes to stop in the slot and nothing really happened - the car just pushed past the crew. I had to restart the engine, tried to reverse and had another go - again the brakes refused to stop the car in place  >:( After a few more experiments I realised it would stop if I knocked it into neutral, so went round again. By this time though I was a lap down on Ian and still needed to pit. I got into the pitlane and this time got the board up but couldn't face trundling round at the back in the understeery ntk, so I quit.  

That's 3 times in a row that PnG has let me down, so it will probably be my last race. Shame, as PnG3 should be good, but spoiled races are just a waste of precious time.

Grats to Ade and Ian and MJ. The Elite was always the favourite after the switch, but the atcc was way too fast. Perhaps the transam was the right choice?

That was an action packed race, real good fun in the Elite.  ;D

Race started well & I battled with Ade & MJ for the first couple of laps but made a couple of silly but not disasterous mistakes & lost a couple of spots. Spent several laps trying to find a way past PR's very wide Elite. Eventually got alongside into Sheene Curve but we both braked a bit too late & ran wide onto the grass which let API through.

Then had a great battle with API for several more laps with many position changes but eventually managed to open out a 3s gap. With 6-7 laps left I was in 3rd place but a check on the fuel showed I wasn't going to make it to the end so I had to start short shifting & taking some of the corners in a higher gear. Ian then appeared in my mirrors & blasted by up to Hawthorns nicking my podium place. The fuel saving driving just worked & I crossed the line with 0.2 gallons left in 4th place.

Congrats to Ade, Ian & MJ.  :clap: :clap: :clap:

...and Legzy probably looks a little older than he did this time yesterday :)

Not a good race for me. I'm usually quick off the grid, but I was swamped by 4 or 5 of my fellow eliters. I pushed too hard trying to regain places and fell off, putting me last by the end of lap 1. :wetfish:

Gradually worked my way back and waited for the stops to see how things developed. Funny thing is, I never saw a Mustang all race. I expected to be caught by Legzy who was 10 secs behind with a few laps to go, but the expected battle never materialised.

Looks like a great race was had up at the sharp end. Congrats to Ade on his win and to Ian and MJ for their podies. 8)

Had some great fun in the back of the field .
Gained a few spots at the start but lost them already before the end of lap 1.

First few lap had some fun with Bill and for the second half of the race spent a lot of time chasing / being chased by Alex.
After Lap 20 my concentration was gone and started to make errors every lap .
So finished last, as usual  :)

Ah well, had fun and that is the most important .