SimRacing.org.uk

Car: Star Mazda
Track: Brands Hatch (GP)
Practice: approx. 18:00 for 150 mins
Qualifying: 20:30 (15 mins)
Race: 28 laps (approx. 40 minutes)

Start: Standard iRacing double file rolling start
Flags: local only

THERE WILL BE NO RESETS AVAILABLE!

NOTE: All sessions protected by the main password, there is no seperate 'pre-event practice'
Password: see above (#post_event_password)
(2) Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R;group=255;theme=33)

"Standard iRacing double file rolling start"

Sorry Pops I seem to have missed something here.  Can you explain the procedure please?

Anybody got any times to aim for yet? I did some laps on Friday before going away for the weekend and best was 23 dead. Looking back at my stats I have a mid 22 on the older build.

I was running low 23's with a tweaked setup carried over from Sebring, taking the fuel out got me into the 22's but the laps have all been pretty ragged.

I have run low 22's with the setup I used last season tweaked a bit.

There seems to be an open hosted session at BH in the mazda available... Might just pop on in a min

I haven't managed to break 1:24 yet :(

I managed some pretty competitive times in the Indycar at Brands so it's a bit baffling that I'm so far off the pace (2s by the look of it).

I'm hoping it will magically all come together tonight :)

Anyone?

The machine will tell you what to do... trust the machine...

When the cars grid, they line up double file. Race control tells you to "follow the X car", X being the number of the car in front.

When everyone in on the grid, the pace car starts the lap and controls the pace, you just need to keep up with the car in front and not crash into thecar next to you :) It can be helpful to go single file through the tricky bits.

At the end of the lap, the pace car pulls into the pits. The pole sitting car can then go when the green flag is shown.

It's easy enough to follow Dave's advice though!

Ta.  That's clear enough.

Mad as a box of frogs at a narrow circuit like Brands obviously, but clear enough.  :angel:

You don't have to go strictly double file, it's OK to lag back a bit to give the car in front a bit of space into the turns etc.

You don't have to go strictly double file, it's OK sensible to lag back a bit to give the car in front a bit of space into the turns etc  ;)

AND towards the end of the warmup lap when the grid comes closer together. :(

Practice session is up.

Hopefully I'll see you in there just after 8 :)

I really enjoyed that session last night, especially as I finally got into the 1:22's :)

What's clear is that there won't be too much separating the field tonight, hopefuly that will make for some epic battles right down the field.

Of course the flipside is that any contact could affect a significant number of other drivers.

The first couple of corners can be pretty treacherous at Brands so I hope everyone will be super-careful on lap one and not take every slight sniff of opportunity as an invite to dive up the inside.

Public service message over.

Is there anybody who's managed enough consecutive laps to determine what race fuel is?

Yeah thanks again for hosting that sesh Pops - great fun but I hang my head in shame at the number of incident points scored! The first 20 or so laps there were but a mere handful and then I think it's safe to say the focus dropped slightly as Ross, Martin and I attempted to run together for a bit  ;D.

Are these practice sessions covered by donations btw? Just shout if we need to be chipping in...not sure how it works with iRacing.

Feels like a comfortable'ish lap with the updated Mazda - aside from Surtees which has ruined most quick times for me and then obviously the "do or die" fast corners out the back!

I reckon the quick guys will easily be in the mid 20's.

You don't hit the car infront Tom!

 ;D

Gary

'Chippin in' available here too! but if I remember it's all part of the srou donations at present?

Any 'chippings in' should go to the SRouk donations pot, the practice sessions are covered by that but I appreciate you checking guys :)

I'm really on the edge to get into the 1:22's but I was pretty comfortable in the 1:23's with race fuel.

Feels to me like this car is pretty easy to drive close to the edge, then insanely difficult whilst right *on* the edge.

I assume fuel will be the same as last week.

Finally got my PC up and running and iR installed to just jump on around 9pm last night for some practise.

Strangely for me it feels easier generally but easier to loose traction.. err somehow. Car didn't feel as bad as before round here but the 'lack' of grip off the fronts for me is still there. I can see i'll be about 3 secs off most people and couldnt quite settle down to decent lap as i'm finding it difficult to reign myself back in.

Very low 1:22's now in race trim, car feels good :)  Mid 1:21's so far in Q, but still working on that.  Setups posted at TS.

If anyone gets into 1:20's then I doubt I'll be keeping up with them.

EDIT: I'm using the short gearbox here, I just can't seem to get my head round the long box here  ???  It's right in between the two, if we had a medium gear set it would be spot on.

So is that 7.7 or 9.2?  I wasn't there last time. :)

7.7 for fuel.

Just tried the long box again and it is faster if I can make it feel more consistent grrrrr.

Does the no resets apply to Qualifying as well?  Or can I go like a nutter and hope I get a good one in!!

Ha! I managed to do it. :P  Sorry again, Gazza. ::)

It's obviously not good technique but you can crash and still qualify with a new car. I'm sure I did last week and the week before  :-[

Cheers Mike.

At my pace I find the short box better but you may be reaching Hawthorn going more quickly than me.

Paul
:)

Looks like I may need to tweak the rest of the setup to make the long box work.  I'll have a good go before the race.  I can always go back to the short box :)

pity these races cant be more handicapped :/

with multi-class we could make the top guys race skippys  :)

???

Server is up :)

Lost my connection on the grid - just me?  Can't connect to the iRacing site now.

Arrrgh

Running a close third and dropped it taking too much kerb :(  Might have known that was going to happen, I was really nervous and unsettled, not driving as smoothly as I need to.

Kicking myself for that, it ruins my champ position in one go.

well that was brilliant fun for my first ever Mazda race  8)

Only started driving it properly sunday night! Was reasonably happy with my pace.

Race was excellent from the start, battles all the way. Didnt put a wheel wrong until exactly half distance when i got a kerb up on the inside of a turn and it span me slowly round  :( Lost two places.

Then had great chase with Pops for last 20mins or so until lap 24 of 28 when i was so close behind him on the exit of graham hill, that i tried to correct a wobble in case i clipped his rear but it sent me sideways into the tyre wall  :'( Steering was bent, race over...with only 3.5 laps to go ::)
Shame as thought i had a chance of a top 10 with other guys having incidents and chasing Pops hard pace for lap after lap. Deserved a good finish.

I'll be back ! Enjoyed that, took me back to Geoff symond F1 days !! 8) Congrats to good safe drivers all round

Managed to reconnect 3 laps down.  Should have known better really.  Sorry to Paul and Adam for trying too hard to unlap myself.

Very annoying, new router needed I think.  I'm going to torture this one until it dies....

Grats James on Pole and win.

But need the start clarifying please, my understanding was when pace car pulls we we form up in 2 by 2, then go on the green flag, James went as soon as pace car pulled off so I half followed then slowed cos didnt see anyone else go and lost 2 spots as everyone then did go.

Apart from that good race battling with James, Dan and Mike early on, but personally made too many mistakes again but it was nice to make it past t1 lol

When the pace car pulls off, it's then up to the leader to set the pace.

Then you need to remember;

Good stuff MJ - it was good to see you on track again.

I was VERY lucky in that race I think.  After a great start (well done all - it looked clean as a whistle from back where I was) and sensible first lap by everyone, I was settling in to "race mode" behind TT and Shark.  TT made a slight error which let me get alongside, and being the gent he is TT let me by.

Then again ... maybe his spider-senses were tingling, as I somehow managed to lose the back end going into Stirlings Bend .... I'm guessing I touched some grass, but in any case, I span and was heading towards the wall in a cloud of profanity.  I nudged the wall, and fearing the worse I rejoined the race.  Thankfully the car was fine ... phew.

The next few laps were spent catching up to folk, and keeping it clean.

I had a good view of MJ/Picnic going at it, even with Ross distracting me :D

I had a second bout of good fortune when someone span infront of me, and although I nudged them after some evasive action, the car still felt fine ..... PHEW!!

After MJ span I got to within a second of Picnic, but lost concentration - and it was just as well.  Coming out of Dingle Dell I saw a flying team Shark car - there'd obviously been a "bit" of an incident with Chris.  That got me another couple of places, and with a big gap to the next guys front and back, I eased off and made sure I made no mistakes.

.... well, until the leaders finished and I was the last car on track and promptly ran WIDE at Graham Hill bend :D


Great fun again, and well done all for a very clean getaway at the beginning.

James went way too soon before the green was shown, the field was nowhere near formed up.

I love Brands, but I have no confidence racing there.  I think I will not bother with the official Brands races this season.  I fell off on the one turn I had been OK on in practice, and it happened because I was scared of dropping it.

That's the bad one over with, the others are much better :)

That was a great race!!

Got a good jump this time and slotted in behind John through Paddock but he drifted wide and i got him into Druids.  James wa setting a quick pace so i tried not to drive to hard on cold tires and get a rythm.   Had major understeer through clearways and it caught me out and i spun but just about caught it but John went through.   By this James had got a 3 second lead and i was worried that 7.7 gallons wouldnt be enough so started to short shift .  Held onto the back of John while short shifting untill he made a mitake at sheen Curve and i nipped through.
By this time i new the fuel would be enough so i just nailed it and slowly started to pull back James which took everthing i had ,   sweat was pouring down my face .   John had closed back in on myself and was looming in my mirrors and with 7 laps to go i thought i might just get the win if i pressured James enough.  
  
Then pop the engine goes changing down into 2nd going into druids , could not f***ing believe it!!
      
Well done to James on a superb flag to flag win ..when you get it right mate your a quick ol boy!!    If not a bit eager at the start,  think you went about 4 secs to early .

Cheers

Dan

So you dont have to wait for the green light to come on  ???

I was thinking I'd be lucky to get anywhere near the top 10 tonight seeing everyone's pace in practice and qualifying  :o

I managed a reasonable qually lap but still only ended up in 15th :D

It looked like a great start guys, well done everyone :-*

I started picking up places as a few guys went off but then had to slow on consecutive laps with Martin and Simon re-joining in exactly the same spot, they weren't bad re-joins, I was just way too timid I think ::)

I was going pretty well though, having a good fight with TT when I span it out of T2, like Adam, I was amazed that the car was still drivable but I had to let a long line of cars through and realistically I wasn't going to make up any more places through any skill of my own.

Luckily, others weren't so careful and I ended up 8th which was completely undeserved (how many times have I written that after an iRacing event?).

Great racing with MJ at the end, pity you lost it with a few to go, it could have been a great finish.

Good fun tonight but I'm left wondering why I can get a pretty decent performance out of the Indycar but seemingly none of the other cars ???

whoohoo i finished 11th ! :) and with less incident points than some of the more illustrious names here  ;)

Fantastic driving at Brands in these cars, just the right mix of aggression and rhythm and the ff effects made me feel non-match fit at mid distance ! like karting  :P

Fantastic race from my perspective.  Start was clean, got done into T1 by Blunder but snatched back the place into T2.  

Tried hard to hang on to Simmo and Ken and when Simmo lost it a few laps later I was chasing Ken but couldn't really get the gap down enough to attempt a pass.  All the while, Gary was closing in quick and gave me a bit of pressure for a few laps.

At about mid race distance, Ken made a slight error and I was able to nip by down the back straight.  After this I was under constant pressure from Ken and Gary was close behind waiting to pounce.  With around 5 laps to go, I had a poor entry into the penultimate turn and was anticipating contact from Ken.  As a result we both got a poor exit and Gary capitalised by pinching 2 places.

I still had Ken behind me until lap 26 when I got too much kerb at the same corner and lost it into the barrier.  Fortunately, the impact was square on, and not too hard.  My suspension survived and I was able to carry on to finish 5th which I suppose was more than I was expecting at the start.

Grats to Oily, John and Gary and thanks to Ken for a great battle.

Now, where did I put that valium. :)

Sorry, that wasn't very clear was it? ::)

The lead car is responsible for setting the pace, but pace should be maintained until the green flag is shown. Cars should wait for the green flag to accelerate to race speeds.

If James went before the green flag was shown then he shouldn't have done.

I'd have probably done the same.  :angel: If anything, it makes for a cleaner start as the front runners get strung out more.

It'd be nice to get clarification though.

That was clarification ;D

I agree it does make for a cleaner start.

Just as i thought.

To clarify the clarification... <ahem>

It doesn't actually specify in the Sporting Code (I just checked) that the lead car should wait for the green flag to accelerate to race speeds.

However, it is does seem to be NASCAR rules to "go on green" and that's what the rolling start procedure is based on.

Reckon that was without doubt the best UKiR league race we've had.
I liked the Mazda last season, but it's just class right now.

Once again as I said on TS, I'm soo sorry Pete. Ended both our races with one moment of over-excitement trying to get going again. So sad as we were both having a cracking time. I just wanted to be swallowed up right there :(

I would say something nice about Oily winning, but he's Team Prodigy... I'm sure he understands  ;)

Dammit - sorry chaps, have to be honest in that I didn't really anticipate myself ever being in that situation so when it happened I just did what I thought was right in the real world :(. I definitely went a good few seconds before the green light, I just held off the throttle enough until I knew I wouldn't be overtaking the safety car on the track. I was actually expecting everyone to be glued to my rear towards the last few corners, thought it was a bit strange it never happened!

Thanks for the race anyway chaps, apart from blotting the copybook somewhat with the start it seems, I was pretty chuffed with some consistent times in the race. Unlucky Dan, I was feeling the pressure as you and John turned the screw little by little - felt a little guilty that I was using your setup and it was your engine that went bang! Even a second or so in front of you that thing scared the carp out of me LOL, they didn't hold back on the sound effects there did they!?

Had a couple of little moments, one at Paddock and the other running wide at Surtees where I thought I was going to be crucified on the straight but I managed to get away with it and other than that it was just a case of attempting to manage the gap. I know how difficult it is to pass around here so was just hoping and praying I'd be able to keep John at arms length for as long possible so he ran out of time to force a move! Was a close one through Westfields on the final lap though I must admit. Your Mazda completely filled the mirror John, thought it was curtains!  ;D

Definitely wasn't the quickest out there but nice to bring it home for a change - that was the aim before the race so major bonus to end up on the top step somehow!

Grats John and to Gazza, awesome recovery drive from 10th mate - hope all goes well with the knee op! Hope to see you back on soon for more fun and games.

I was much later connecting than I'd hoped and had snuck a 23 in practice but qual was a complete nightmare for me. Although in the end a new PB only got me 17th on the grid. I didn't fancy my chances of staying on with cold tyres and being almost tail end charlie I opted to let everyone passed at the start. That allowed me to warm the tyres up and get into a rhythm. I made a few places up as people had incidents but I don't think I had the pace to pass anyone who didn't make a mistake. When MJ spun out in front of me I said on the TeamSpeak now I have a clear track I mustn't bin it and after a nasty moment actually settled in to running 23 sec laps. Set a new PB of 23.1 and the next lap was 0.3 up on that. Then some muppet blocked the track  ;D I saw the racing line was clear and never lifted, the net result was pretty savage. Shame that ended both our races.

I spent the whole of the GTR2 race on my todd way off the pace racing no one for 60 mins on Sunday night. I was enjoying tonight and would have happily rejoined and if I had had a reset available. I understand why they are not but I think a couple of us would have enjoyed completing the race. Two sides to every discussion ;)

Absolutely fabulous racing tonight. My best result for some time. Great battle as already described by Brendan. 28 laps of enthralling action. I was starting to wish I'd put the air con on in the loft!!  These cars are so enjoyable to drive, much better than trying to persuade some overweight tin top to go round corners it doesn't really want to go round!! ;)

It looked like I had more down force on than Brendan and it was an interesting comparison between the two setups. He was edging away each lap on the long back straight but I was catching back up through all the twisties. It was a shame we managed to let Gary through, but he did have much better pace than us, as seen by his lap time. I'm glad Brendan's race wasn't ended by his incident, it would have been a travesty after such a good battle.

With any of the rolling starts at iRacing it's always the leader who controls the start.

If he decides to go before green that's his choice. I've never heard anything otherwise.

So we go when the flag/lights go green.  Got it cleared up in the end.  ;)


It was probably so loud due to the fact that i was glued to your wing at the time . :P   Dont feel to guilty about using my set ( Im sure you dont really)  ,  Always share my set ups ..Just a shame you had to get hold of it.  :P

Did you make any changes to it??

I think this would be the safest and best way to go ..What do think Pop's ??

I prefer the leader controls method.

That way everybody should react to the car ahead and with reaction times little gaps should appear.

When 20+ cars react to green it means everybody will be going at the very same time and reactions would often mean cars overlapping on the way to T1 with a tightly bunched field.

Leader controls is the safest method in my opionion.

Yeah that sounds good to me.

Yeah James sorry about that was sure I was going to hit you, but so was relieved when I didnt!

I think I'm right in saying the leader does not have to floor it on Green!
but I guess that causes more problems than it solves!

Congrats to Oily!... being in Team Prodigy it made it very difficult....
It was like cheering on Michael Schumacher because you didn't want the forever whinging Mark Webber to win! :lol:

Ahum..... err... I got a little bashed ... ahum... apology accepted!  ;D

Fantastic car / track combination, even getting knocked out didn't upset me too much as I had really enjoyed practicing but I must admit, the thought of a small reset for my minor damage would have meant me enjoying the race til the end!  ;)

Look forward to the next one!

Thanks Oldies, rest assured I'd be saying exactly the same lol  :-*


Hahaha, I should probably have been even more worried in which case - thought I still had some car lengths to spare coming into the hairpin but sounds like it was a bit closer than I realised!

Nah I won't deny it was some welcome relief that you weren't harrassing me but never nice when it's something terminal - would much rather it was just a wheel that had snapped off, you know, something minor :). What happened anyway, is it just you raping these things or was it an accidental double downshift?

Only changes I made were a couple of extra clicks of rear wing and the oval gear ratio...seemed to give me some nice drive in places. It's funny with the last build I could barely drive your setup and mine felt sweet, this time it was completely reversed although it did feel like it might pirouette on me at Surtees at any moment if I dared to trail the brakes!

No, the leader doesn't have to floor it on green, he effectively has the time from the green flag being shown to crossing the start/finish line to start accelerating. If he waits until after the s/f line then he could get overtaken, until then, the #2 car will get black flagged for overtaking.

I would *much* rather let iRacing police the starts than get into arguments over whether starts were legal or not, in that respect James did an excellent job last night ;)

There's two sides to this. One is that in the true spirit of racing (not iRacing) rules, you should wait until the green flag is shown, the second is that practically it's easier to police and very possibly safer if we let the lead car choose when to go once the safety car is off track. I think the second option is preferable.

The proof is in the lack of incidents from lap 1 - I'm more than happy to have a repeat of the clean start from last night. :D

Brian hits the nail on the head.  I've done hundreds of real life rolling starts (in karting).  In those the pole man controls the pace and his only responsibility is to keep it "steady and even", i.e. don't keep accelerating and then braking etc as you approach the line.  The starts are always cleaner when the pole man goes early and increases the pace coming out of the last corner.  If you bunch the pack up on the start/finish straight there is always a pile up at turn 1.

Fun race but didn't get to the flag (what does it look like again?)

Very sorry for the tap Simmo.... I am not too sure what I was trying to do, even after looking at the replay  ???

....we were having a good race! Felt like F1 the way it is hard to get up close behind a car  :P

New build is much more to my suiting, I think the tyre model doesn't have that odd mid-corner speed dead zone... which is usually where this car oversteers  :laugh:

Grats Oily !!  8)

No worries, no harm done, I didn't actually lose a place. 

I was just rubbish.  I had no pace and couldn't keep it on the track.  I really need to put some more time into the Mazda before I race it again.

I actually thought the pace lap start was excellent.  I was deeply sceptical but am now a convert.

Paul
:)

Apologies for hassling you to the point you fell off despite me being way out of contention Paul.  I probably shouldn't have bothered even restarting after resetting my router, but figured after all the practice I may as well (and I did actually enjoy chasing you and Adam)

Any pointers on what's the appropriate thing to do in that situation, ie. laps down for whatever reason, but quick enough to unlap yourself from slower cars...but possibly at the risk of causing them difficulties when attempting to pass.

I wasn't entirely sure if me trying to catch and pass Paul and Adam (and others if I'd not fallen off myself) was really the right thing to be doing in the circumstances.

Cheers, Ross.

I was wondering why you were a lap down.

Don't beat yourself up mate, I went off entirely on my own.  The fact you were behind me had no bearing whatsoever.

There are a few issues with the leader starting well before the green. Firstly is that the person starting in second (and generally alongside) has a distinct disadvantage compared to the person in third. Unless the person in second has triple screen or a really wide FOV the leader will almost certainly be out of direct sight when he goes. The person in third is usually then well away as well before the second place car even sees the leader shoot off. Even the person in 4th will have a better view and likely get the jump on 2nd.

One thing the second place person can do is look to the side to keep the leader in view. This normally leads to a bit of a ragged driving direction trying to judge their direction while looking sideways. The only other thing is to hang back to keep the leader in a frontal view but then almost certainly third will be well up the inside into T1. When I am on pole I always go on green mainly through fear of getting a penalty by the system. Brian for example always goes as soon as the pace car pulls in or whenever he feels like it (as he is allowed). What we need to do is establish the same method for all. We cant have some going sometimes and others at something different it just adds to confusion and possible problems IMO. In this case it was noted that the field towards the back didn't even have a chance to form up properly, that cant be right. Thinking what would happen at Laguna here with the pit entrance before the final corner. No doubt the leader would trundle round it then floor it as soon as on the straight, this would be a big disadvantage to all behind.

If it was my choice to make I would say that for our league the leader goes on green. Reasons for this, everyone sees it at the same time, nobody has to be looking at out of the side view, the field will have plenty of time to form up, but mainly its predictable. In the GTR2 league it was set in stone. Leader turns off pit limiter on the start/finish line everyone else goes after the car in front goes. In iRacing we are side by side so its more hazardous. So with that in mind I dont see why we use any sort of judgemental starting procedure on when to floor it and when not to.

All in all though I wasn't able to race and I think it was clean into T1 so who am I to judge  :laugh:. I may also be biased of course. I was in second place at Brands in the IndyCar last season. Was toggling looking sideways at the start to Brian on pole. While looking forward to check I was driving straight off he went. By the time I floored it 3rd was past and 4th come behind me up the inside into T1. So if the rule is the pole man goes when he likes then thats fine by me as long as we all do that and hope I am never second on the grid and be further back ;D

Question:  I'm planning on doing my first public Mazda race this week.  Are they rolling or standing starts?  If they are standing starts what's the best way to get away?  Same as the Skippy?

Standing starts.  For me personally, I just select 1st with no throttle on red and then floor it when it goes green.  Picks up super quick and always seems to be as quick as everyone else, but is 100% consistent.

Cheers, Ross.

Best way to launch the Mazda is as follow.

Stay in netural and give it max revs. Press the clutch approx 40% and at the green light stick it in first.

Keep the clutch at about 40% and let it slip until past the point of bog down.

This means you don't wheelspin or bog down and you can get a huge leap on others.

Thanks guys.

So does the Skippy technique of Neutral at full revs then slam it in 1st on green not work?

I just changed down a fraction too early , Yeah Surtees is a strange corner , i think its where the car suddenly loads up as the track starts to rise but there is no downforce because the speed is so low.

It wheelspins if you do that.

the rolling starts in group C are quite fast and usually start around 100 mph.... we are always instructed to continue in formation and wait for the lights to turn green....  i usually left foot brake and build up the turbo in that case!

why not do the same here? safety car pulls in and speed should be maintained until green... (i am remembering the iR start procedure correctly i hope?!)

single file lap worked well too yesterday  :)

The pace car only does 55 or 60MPH

Can we not just maintain that until green then?

I'll repeat, I'd much rather iRacing police the start procedure.

If that means the pole sitter can go when the pace car pulls in then so be it.

I'm with Pops, the games policing seems to do the job and as long as the races start safely I think it's fine.

Of course being a tail end charlie means I'm never likely to have to worry about this ;)

I agree... me neither! :)

At the end of the day they've earned the right to go first by grabbing pole.

Yeah fine by me :)