SimRacing.org.uk

Season 19 Novices Trophy - Round 6 Mosport

The Novices return to venue sharing with the Amateurs at Mosport, Canada, a track designed and built in the late 1950s which held its first major race in 1961, the Player's 200, a sports car race bringing drivers from the world over to rural Ontario. Stirling Moss won the event in a Lotus 19. The proposed hairpin was expanded into two discrete corners, to be of greater challenge to the drivers and more interesting for the spectators, at his suggestion, and is named Moss Corner in his honour. This is a source of lingering confusion as many people call the track Mossport. It has had a succession of owners since the original public company created to build the track. Mosport achieved acclaim though a series of international sports car races under the title "Canadian Grand Prix" normally reserved for Formula 1 races. F1's Grand Prix of Canada remained at the track until 1977.
Unlike many historic motorsport venues, Mosport's track layout has remained mostly unchanged from its original form.

Reserve drivers should not join the server until there are only 30 mins of qualifying left.  However, all drivers should not go on track until there is 30 minutes of qualifying left.  This helps all drivers join the server successfully.  Please restrict chat to pit messages only, including at the end of the race until ALL drivers still racing have crossed the line.

Don't forget to use the updated 65 mod for this race.

Please be in the IGOR UKGPL chatroom by 8:55 p.m.
(You will need to set up a channel called #ukgpl if you haven't already done so)
IGOR and Race passwords: see above (#post_event_password)

Server = 5.UKGPL
IP Address = ping myjamesonline.net
Race Date = 15-06-2010
Time = 21:00
Track = Mosport
Variant = 65F1
Damage Model = Intermediate
Qually Time = 30 minutes.
Race Length = Long (34 Laps)
Password: see above (#post_event_password)

Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=250&theme=6)

We have split the cars into groups based on average performance and split the drivers into groups based on average ability. The chassis numbers for Novices are as follows:

NOVICE CHASSIS GROUPS
1 - Lotus, Ferrari, BRM, Honda
2 - BT11
3 - Cooper
4 - BT7

Each driver has been given a seeding number and must pick a chassis with either an equal number or higher number but not a lower number. For example, if a driver is given a seeding of 2, he must pick one of the cars in group 2 (BT11) but if he would prefer to drive either the Cooper or BT7 he may do so. This means that a driver given a seeding of 1 can pick any chassis he prefers.

**NOTE**
Whichever chassis a driver begins his first race with is the chassis he must use for the remainder of the season unless a change has been agreed with the moderator.

The following drivers have made their chassis choice:

FULL TIME

Driver	Chassis
D-Rock	Lotus 33
NHance	Brabham BT11
roguk	Cooper T77
maddog	Cooper T77
maestro	Brabham BT11
il_lupo	Ferrari 512
happyal	BRM P261
Billy	Brabham BT11
gilles27	Lotus 33
G Poole	Brabham BT11
BookieW	BRM P261
Sharkfin	BRM P261
norbert	Ferrari 512
Vosblod	Lotus 33
Burtoner	Brabham BT11

RESERVES

Driver	Chassis
Nigel Smith	Honda RA272
karlisss	Honda RA272

The following drivers are still to make their chassis choice:

RESERVES

Driver	Seeding
miner2049er	1

Please use the updated 65 mod for this race which is available here:
Jamesonline.net/UKGPL (http://www.jamesonline.net/ukgpl/1965mod_PATCH_v2.0.2_Setup.zip)

 ;)                        ;D                       :(                         :'(                       :-\                       :-*




                                
                                      An Ode to Mosport - by Martin Hunt
                                                                                                                                                                
                         Mosportizing, Mosportizing, quick to feel the passion's rising,
                         Enterprising, compromising, improvising, idolizing?
                         Theorizing, thought revising, animated mind bendizing!
                         Pratt provising, damned fool-dizing, energized bamboozle-izing.
                         Hero-izing, demonizing, agonized extrapolizing,
                         Lapse derising, lapse despising, enigmatic pragmatizing.
                         Glorifyzing, Champaignizing, emphasizing dream-onizing.                  
                         Mosportizing, realizing . . . I like this track!




    
 :D                       ???                       :P                           >:(                       :angel:                    ;)    

Will be skipping this one, too much real life stuff to do. Hope to see you all at Wigram, or Rouen, depending on the internet situation.

What can I say except my best race to date  :w00t:  ::)  :sweatdrop:

Norm's storming qually denied me that elusive pole, even at my PB I would have been .03s slower, but got a blinding start and found myself in front (why can I do that in 65's but not 67's?). After that it was try to keep to 27's and if Norm closes push it. Guess he had issues as I pulled away and broke the tow. So I kept going aiming at 27's and built a cushion in case I did any silly spins. In the event that didn't  happen and got my first race 'fastest lap', those I lapped were exemplary. So down to the last 5 laps and all I could think of was Norm's engine blow out, tried to take it easy but too much relaxation could take you off the game.
Anyway made it and, not usually my thing, felt a victory lap was in order (probably because I have no spare wheel buttons to raise a victory hand  ;)).

Anyway Mosport was the first ever race (read disaster) I did at UKGPL back in September '08 https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5213.msg87791#msg87791. Follow my race history and I was the Milkfloat for a long long time.

So here's some inspiration to anyone struggling and thinking "I'll never win"...
Best Lap 9/08: 1.47.405 - Best Lap 6/10: 1.26.930, I almost left after that first outing...

Grats Vosb , hope you enjoyed the champers   :)

Grats Vos......I have been on the same journey ;)

My first online race was also at Mosport in the 67's.
 I think I was lapped within the first 3-4 laps.. I lost count of how many times I spun.....I took out a couple of unimpressed regulars...............and almost gave up the whole idea of online racing as it was sooo different from racing AI that I was used to.

Some might say "it's a pity he didn't give up back then", but slowly I eased my laptimes towards the "competitive" end of the spectrum. So if I can do it with my meagre ability, I'm damned sure all of you can do better. 8) 8)

I had internet connection problems earlier in the evening and was surprised I managed to get as far as 7 laps from the finish before the inevitable disco.

Qually saw a great scrap for pole, until Norm put in an absolute stormer to take it by 3 tenths - very well done sir. Vos and Martin pipped me so I ended up fourth. That became third after a good start, during which Vos also took the lead.

I then spent around 12 laps following Norm closely, my objective was to pressure him into a mistake rather than try an overtake, as I find passing difficult here. Norm, I hope you felt I was driving safely as I've really tried to improve my racecraft since my antics at Westwood. Anyway, both times I got past, I then made a mistake. The second time was spin which cost me 2 or 3 places, and after that all my good work went out of the window.

The rest of the race was spent playing catchup, I made a couple of other errors and blew the engine, then came in for a stop and go. Eventually got up to 5th, more through others' mistakes I think, until British Telecom decided to call time on my efforts.

I'm not too disappointed though, as I feel I continue to improve. Vos' consistency is something I can only aspire to right now. Congrats on an exemplary drive Vlad, well done also to Pete and Martin on making the podium, you guys were bang on the pace too.

Two weeks is too long to the next race, see you then.

Cheers,

Ross

This track is a Mountside Racing favourite so I was hoping to do well & if I could choose to get pole at any track it would be here.
Passed off the line but I'm begining to expect it now as I always gear for the best laps in the whole race not to start & I favour a highish 1st gear. Ross's driving was exemplory, & in fact I went deliberately wide to give room on corners a couple of times as I thought he was through only to find I had kept my place. Can't rely on him leading & crashing anymore then ;). Sorry you disco'd Ross but did notice you disappeared completely from my mirrors once so it was likely to happen.
Lap 16 the engine went. Since Westwood I change up 2/300 rpm lower than before & less than peak power, but still it went. S&G dropped me to 8th. On lap 24 there was an incident with Billy for which he appologised afterwards, no worries. Then on lap 29 this second engine went also so after another S&G I eventually finished 7th.
The good thing was that I got my first pole position however I failed to break Billy's unenviable record of blowing up 3 engines in one race. That's one he can keep  ;D
Well done Vos & those who finished ahead of me. Its the position at the end of the race that counts. Vos just drove away from everyone.
Norm H
 

Thanks Norm, yes there were a couple of times I considered passing but my priority was not hitting anyone. Sorry I spun in front of you as, having looked at the replay, Pete got past you at the time.

Regarding my disco, you disappeared in front of me a few times in the complex at the end of the back straight, is that the same point you lost contact with me? If so I guess it was my connection playing up but not enough for a full disco.

I know you are disappointed with your result but it was a cracking pole position, you should be chuffed with that. Hopefully you and I can both register a first win before the season ends, if Vos lets us ;-)

Ross

Big improvement from my dismal performance at Westwood. Qualifying was a reasonable mid-grid position & first few laps I was running in 4th or so for a bit.
Consistency seems my biggest handicap and I developed a particular liking for the grassy bank at the end of the long straight – so much so I paid it three visits.
Big apology to Norm for my bad rejoin from the said picnic area. The grassy bank does give a good view of the track & I’m sure there was a big stretch of empty road to rejoin. I was hugely surprised when Norm appeared. Probably my lack of vigilance & I’ll have a look art the reply in due course. Took a SnG partly as self penance I think.
When I slid off the track at the same point next lap (on cold tyres) I was on the point of jacking it in but decided to complete race distance to add a few points to Pete’s 2nd place.
Well done to Vos on another win & the other podium finishers.

PS. Ross – don’t have to wait 2 weeks – next Spec race is at Imola in the 65s – it’s a great track.

Sorry everyone if I gave the impression I was disapointed with the result. I was at Westwood, but not here. Soon as I had done the pole lap I thought they're going to have to go a bit to beat that. Because I like Mosport so much it was special. The final result is what it is.

I've learned "things happen" accept it, this is a novice class, drive on.

Don't forget there were a few non starters. So whatever your aspirations in the championship we've only had 6 races. Last season I battled like hell to get 8th 'cos that is what it's about to me & I didn't care what the front runners were doing.

Norm H   

A small tip for NHance and anyone else who finds they are blowing more engines than they think they should be ;). It is something that it took me a while to learn, but now I very rarely blow engines even in the 67 Waza which is notoriously sensitive to over revving.

If you are not speed shifting up through the box ( i.e. you lift fractionally at each change and allow the revs to drop back from the red line) then 9 times out of 10 it is not the upshifts that over rev the engines, but the down shifts.

Religously changing up the box, 2-300 revs below the red line will do nothing for your survival if at every down shift, the white whizzy thing in the middle of the dashboard, bangs against the stop!!!

Try downshifting a little later, which incidentally you might find makes the car more stable under braking and staying a gear higher on some corners will enable you to smoothly carry more speed through the apex. Sudden downshifts under braking can break the traction ( what little there is!!) on the rear wheels and cause the rear to step out .
Yeah!! ok!! I know I talk from a position which is more sideways than a sideways thing going sideways, but just try it!! and if you find that you cannot actually go through the corner one gear higher, then make the final downshift at the very last moment when all the braking is done and the revs will not destroy the engine.

Just thought some experience of picking up conrods for many years should be saved. Incidentally maybe the Statmeister could do a league table based on engine scrappage rates??:D

Good tip, Evil, but I'm afraid I'm not following it often myself. I tend to use the gearbox a lot to make the car stop better and it's taking its toll on the engine I suppose. Got to become more conscious about it and avoid blowing up altogether!

Thanks for the tip Clive. I do use the gears to slow down with a blip of the throttle also if there's time as it stabalises the car particularly if there is a change of direction involved as in last esses at Mosport.

I'll try to change my ways for the next race.    Thanks again

Norm H.

lol @ Hristo...

On the rare occasions when I get into Hristo territory, I am using every little advantage that I can find!! if that means that the engine has to do some ( a lot!!) of braking, then it does a lot of braking. So far I have just about kept all the metal bits inside the crankcase, but there have been times when I have winced and waited for the whole thing to explode when I get a downshift very, very wrong. ::).

I guess that is inevitable if you are pushing at either the limit of your ability or the limits of the car...or both??

Qually’d 5th with a PB so very pleased. ;D But fantastic pole time to Norm, congrats

Off the line OK and big thanks to Bill for holding his inside in T1 while I was on the outside as he had shot off the line from 6th and came up level with me.

Got past Martin for 4th after he went off the corner at 5A on the 1st lap

First few laps or so I kept spinning at 5A as well. Lucky for me it was always a complete 360 and staying on the tarmac. It was odd as I was braking as normal and the car would just rotate on entry into the corner. No idea why.
Anyone any ideas? ???

Then spent 10 or so laps watching Vos disappear into the distance, and Norm and Ros
battling royally in 2nd and 3rd. They must have been slowing each other down in their battle as I started slowly closing in on them hoping to join their battle and have some time closely racing with other cars. But not to be. :(

Around Lap 14 Ross spun which caused Norm to slow to miss him. As I was far enough back from the incident I could guess a good route through to pass them and kept the pedal to the metal and roared past and into 2nd

After that it was a case of continuing at a steady pace as I couldn’t match Vos for lap times. I was pulling slowly away from the cars behind so concentrated on staying on the track and running at a safe pace.

Became a bit lonely  for nearly 20 laps, but a 2nd is good as far as I’m concerned. :D

I've been told that racing drivers can be a suspicious lot, which sounds to me a load of rot!  Nonetheless,  I was careful not to offend the Mosping Gods, who live behind the hairpin at Mosport.  Perhaps some fellow racers have felt their unforeseen forces?  So naturally, I did my best to quell them, by offering up a sacrificial poem on this thread before the race - wrote nicely, and crossed my fingers!

So, what was my reward - my bump stops fell off as the race started!  This came to my attention, approaching the hairpin on lap 1, and only I was singled out on that lap!  Highly mysterious!  Highly embarrassing, to those who don't understand these phantoms of latency?  Highly suspicious that everyone avoided me, without a similar fate!  An unhappy start from 3rd on the grid. :( 

For some time thereafter, I had to sneak my way around the track, under a smokescreen, and tiptoe up to the bedeviled hairpin, so as not to be noticed.

Competing from the back, I soon realized how devilishly fast the BRMs can be, and then spent many laps
chasing after Norberts possessed Ferarri.  But then, the track Gremlins started to work their way into
everyones machinery, and somehow I'd sneaked up to 3rd, with 3 laps left. 

I'd read somewhere, I'd need to spin round 3 times to lift this kind of hex.  So with 1 spin left, I chose
wisely - only how Roger managed to avoid me at the hairpin, I know not.  Probably some magical talent he possesses.  With some difficulty, I still managed 3rd at race end,  and I feel this was at least some reward, for all my efforts, on everyones behalf. ;)

So be warned, and be careful not to spin your wheels too much, when grass cutting at Mosport. It's not a good thing to do.


P.S. My sympathies Maestro.  So I was not alone - I've a couple of theories here. 

You're probably braking too late and deep into the corner, not getting off the brakes on time as you turn in with the steering. Try to brake early and flick the steering wheel into the corner and lift up the brakes at the same time, then apply a bit of throttle and balance it with the throttle and steering (opposite lock if necessary).

Basically you need to be off the brakes before the apex and be on the throttle.

Also at 5A, which I believe is what I term the first element of Moss, the problem is usually one of the suspension bottoming out.

What Hristo says is good advice, but it might help a little if you appreciate what is happening and why GPL punishes you for your actions ;). Because if you give GPL the opportunity it WILL take it.

If you have your spring rates too low, and/or not enough bump stop dialled in... and you approach the "dip" too fast... and you are still braking at the bottom of the dip, basically your car has zero suspension left to compensate for the sudden increase in pressure.
And yes, GPL models the reaction.
The result is that the car is bounced up, just at the point where you need some serious grip to aim for that blind crest and get lined up for Moss and a clean exit onto the straight and you lose control just when you need it most. Either you clout the armco, or if you miss that you will spin, or career off onto the slippery Canadian grass, or arrive at Moss totally as a passenger with no hope of making the apex.
As Hristo says, break early and pick your line to the apex and the crest..get OFF the brakes before the bottom of the dip and even use some throttle to stabilise things as you traverse the dip.
You will be amazed just how quickly and smoothly you can get  through that section when your car stays ( more or less) under your control. I cannot claim to get it right 100% of the time, but I do know that when it is right, I can gain a huge amount of time through this section.

Please help me out where possible by reporting your race incidents using the link at the top.

Crashes, Stop n Go Penalties etc.

Oh, and how did you all feel about the slightly longer race length this time?

Was 40 minutes or so enough or did the 50 minute race make for a welcome challenge?

I enjoyed the longer race, didn't notice that it was longer at all.

I didn't save my reply, but I can't recall anything that I'll have to report :)

Hi Mike,

I thought the race seemed a little longer than usual, that said I got disco'ed 6 laps from the end anyway so it didn't really affect me. Personally I would prefer to stick to what we've been doing so far this season rather than making them slightly longer.

Regarding the incident reports, I had a blown engine mid-race and took my SnG immediately, do I need to report myself for that?


Ross

I suspect most Novices would feel the same, but tnow they have tried it at least. ;)


As long as you took a Stop n Go then no, you don't.

When it comes to race length, I think opinions may vary, from driver to driver, and from race to race.

With the unfolding of events on Tuesday, I was, umm . . . spellbound from start to finish.  Whereas, on
another day things might've been different.  So I'm not sure either way.

Looking at the bigger picture, with Novices touted as an introductory series at UKGPL, keeping our races shorter is likely to be less daunting to newbies on-line.  On the other hand, if we're simply new to their repertoire, then longer races might seem attractive to them.  We've plenty of grid spaces to spare - send out the market researchers!  I was put off on-line racing for years because I was slow, and because full GP lengths were in vogue.

Maybe a compromise would work?  Keep things as now, but befuddle us with an occasional lap stretcher, in preparation for later combat with those fabled warriors of Amateur status.

stick with shorter races

seconded

https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=post;topic=5133.msg93319;quote=93319;sesc=7ddd41f0b56eec35b584a18abcbf3ad5 (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=post;topic=5133.msg93319;quote=93319;sesc=7ddd41f0b56eec35b584a18abcbf3ad5)

Good race for Peter Maestro - taking a win in the consistency stakes & equal top in the high climber award. RogUK hangs onto the lead in both overall.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_AwMtMND4F-o/TCTAUKGCfFI/AAAAAAAAALI/KgswRFPcUXw/s1600/Novs06.png)

Mod report published.