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UKiR => UKiR Races => Topic started by: popabawa on August 05, 2010, 12:42:00 PM +0100



Title: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: popabawa on August 05, 2010, 12:42:00 PM +0100
Car: Radical SR8
Track: Phillip Island

Practice: 18:00 for 150 mins (approx)
Qualifying: 20:30 (15 mins)
Race: 20:45 41 laps (approx 60 mins)

Start: Rolling - standard iRacing double file start
No fast tows will be available

Pit Stops: You must make a minimum of one pit stop during which you must take on at least 1 litre of fuel and/or change at least two tyres. You cannot take a mandatory stop at the end of the pace lap, or with less than 1 lap to go.

Password: see above (#post_event_password)
(2) Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R;group=264;theme=33)


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: Adam Parle on August 06, 2010, 08:55:28 PM +0100
I would say I'm looking forward to this ... but after a tentative couple of laps I'm not so sure!!!

Can anyone give me a rough idea on laptimes for the mid-back of the grid?


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: Simon Gymer on August 06, 2010, 10:31:32 PM +0100
1:29s Adam.

Still struggling with the gear changes on the new cars tbh. I'm not going to attend until I can find some way of shifting gears comfortably.

If anyone can do a video of how to shift in the new build that would be good as I just don't get it at all. Whatever blipping I'm doing it's not working, whatever revs I'm doing it's not working. I've currently resorted to pressing a button for the clutch whilst pressing the gear change button at the same time. Aids on is worse than aids off, which is totally bizarre as I thought the aids were there to help you. :) I'm at a complete loss as to how to drive the new cars and it's quite frustrating. :-\


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: Mike Wrightson on August 06, 2010, 10:50:58 PM +0100
It's just about the timing of everything.

In the new build, pull the paddle then blip.  If you blip at the same time as you pull the paddle (like we used to) it won't go.  It helps to hold the paddle for a fraction longer as you blip, just make sure you click the paddle then blip.

So:  off throttle, brake... click-blip...click-blip.


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: Legzy on August 07, 2010, 12:13:53 AM +0100
This is all getting a bit confusing for me, will stick with aids on & being even slower. ::)


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: spanner on August 07, 2010, 09:32:38 AM +0100
Wow, how fast is this combo. Only tried this track when the V8 came out but in the radical its quite fun, if you can second guess the corners! Only did a few exploritory laps last night.


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: Paul Thurston on August 07, 2010, 09:40:10 AM +0100
This is all getting a bit confusing for me, will stick with aids on & being even slower. ::)
It took me an hour or so of practice at Philip Island to get the hang of the new gearbox.  Because you're flat from the left hander after the the final hairpin to the first left hander  after the kink, if you're using the aids and losing time on upshifts then you'll be toast to any following car who isn't.

26.9 qually fuel here and mid to low 27s on fuel.  The quick boys will be doing 25s, I can see several places where I could go quicker with more talent.


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: Simon Gymer on August 07, 2010, 07:14:09 PM +0100
It's just about the timing of everything.

In the new build, pull the paddle then blip.  If you blip at the same time as you pull the paddle (like we used to) it won't go.  It helps to hold the paddle for a fraction longer as you blip, just make sure you click the paddle then blip.

So:  off throttle, brake... click-blip...click-blip.

That seems to be working better thanks! It's not 100% yet, but it's certainly a darn sight more consistent at shifting down than it was. I'm still concentrating very hard on the shifting and not so much on the throttle, braking and turning, so I'm hoping with practice that reverses itself back to how I normally drive (concentrating on the important things). Mid 1:28 now.

BTW, how much are you blipping? As in how much throttle do you blip with?

P.S. I never blipped before in iRacing. Only time I've ever blipped in games is in GTL when using the H-pattern gearbox and manual clutch, but blipping there is much more natural. I find it very unnatural to use a flappy paddle and have to blip or use a clutch.


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: Mike Wrightson on August 07, 2010, 07:52:17 PM +0100
I'll put on about quarter - half throttle.  I don't blip much at all in the Mazda now, but the Radical and V8 need a really positive blip to get the gear in.  You do have to drop the throttle right off between them too.

There is talk in the iRacing forums of the use of macros to achieve downshifting.  I imagine that doing that will make it pretty much like the old model without requiring auto-clutch.


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: popabawa on August 07, 2010, 08:56:07 PM +0100
I'm digging this combo 8)

I was a bit wary of the Radical after reading it was a bit of a nightmare to manually shift but it doesn't seem too bad at all, just as Mike describes, click-blip, click-blip. I'm feeling quite proud I got there all by myself without reading this thread :)

That said, I'm pretty slow so far, mid 1:29's with race fuel so far but I reckon I'll get a second off that with a bit more track time.

BTW, I'm not convinced that macro's will help in cars like the Radical where there's no need to use the clutch anyway ??? I'm going to try the macro approach (just for research obviously :angel:)  I'll let you know how it goes.


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: Simon Gymer on August 08, 2010, 10:02:23 AM +0100
Awesome Mike. Can't believe how much that simple advice has helped me. After some more practice this morning the gear changing is going quite well and it's just starting to become second nature.

1:26.7 in Q trim I'm down to now.

P.S. Got the Force Feedback down at 3 for this car as it's so twitchy.


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: Mike Wrightson on August 08, 2010, 09:39:35 PM +0100
I tried creating a macro for downshifting tonight using the logitech profiler.  I might not have done it right, but it didn't work.  Well, it sometimes works, the other times it won't shift at all.  Even when you're parked on the track.  ::)

So, I've abandoned that idea, can't be bothered to spend lots of time trying to get it to work, when I've got it sussed manually anyway.  You'd be better off just using the aids if you're struggling.


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: Legzy on August 08, 2010, 11:29:42 PM +0100
WOW!!!
I am shocked. I love it. :o

Just done an hour & managed to get down to 1:27.1 in race trim.

I've not done the Radical for a season, but it's everything I remember about it. Absolutely fantastic & what a perfect match up with P. Island :thumbup1:.

Unbelievable, but this 1hr practice is about as much fun as I can remember in iR for a good couple of months. Well chuffed. 8)


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: Paul Thurston on August 09, 2010, 07:14:18 AM +0100
I tried creating a macro for downshifting tonight using the logitech profiler.  I might not have done it right, but it didn't work.  Well, it sometimes works, the other times it won't shift at all.  Even when you're parked on the track.  ::)

So, I've abandoned that idea, can't be bothered to spend lots of time trying to get it to work, when I've got it sussed manually anyway.  You'd be better off just using the aids if you're struggling.
If you had I'd have been forced to "accidentally" miss a shift and punt you off anyway.  :angel:

GlovePIE is the weapon of choice for macros if you do want to experiment.  You could set the timing of the blip with surgical accuracy.

Paul
:)


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: popabawa on August 09, 2010, 08:48:28 AM +0100
My logitech profiler clutch macro worked perfectly Pete :angel: ;D

However, it certainly didn't make me any quicker. The issue with this type of macro (engage clutch -> shift -> re-engage clutch) is that you still need to blip to get it in gear if the revs aren't matched. Maybe with a little more skill/practice this could be a benefit if I could get the revs right but it seems marginal to me at best.

As I understand it, where a driver could get more of a significant advantage is using something like glovePIE (as Paul mentions) to perform the shift AND to match revs too thus getting a milli-second perfect shift every time.

I'm not overly concerned about macros, I think it's a bit of a storm in a teacup tbh. There's no way to stop it though so I'll let peoples consciences decide...  :nono:


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: picnic on August 09, 2010, 09:05:41 AM +0100
Interesting chat about methods of cheating going on here ;)

I was reading the iR forum's section on telemetry and people are arguing there that various data (e.g. wheel speed) should not be made available in realtime as it would allow people to produce software that could implement things like traction control and abs. Having a trick gear selector where one does not exist seems like the same thing to me.


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: Simon Gymer on August 09, 2010, 09:36:58 AM +0100
I didn't use a macro, I simply mapped a button for the clutch. Then I pressed that at the same time as the shift button. It worked for every single gear change. When I tried to do a keyboard macro thingy in the Logitech Profiler I couldn't get it to work at all in game. I would assume that's how people without a clutch pedal have to change gear on the old-fashioned non-sequential boxes anyway?

The reason I didn't continue with that was that with the G25 it meant I had no buttons left for "look left" so I could choose between having no visibility on cars to my left or find a different solution.

I'd rather do it "as intended", using technique, which I'm trying to learn, but if I can't get it working 100% of the time I will need someway to actually change gears 100% of the time. It's not enjoyable driving a car when you can't do something as basic as change gear as you're not steering, braking or accelerating when all you are doing is fumbling for gears at all the corners.

None of this turns drivers like me into aliens like Jeff btw. You don't turn mediocre drivers like me into fast drivers by allowing them to change gear, it lets them be the drivers they were before, nothing more.

I'm not trying to gain a lap time advantage by shifting perfectly, I'm trying to change gears full stop. I don't care how slow the gear change is as long as it does it.

P.S. There is a storm?


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: popabawa on August 09, 2010, 09:46:31 AM +0100
This isn't new information though Pete, the genie is well and truly out of the bottle on this one.

It's no different to GTR2 etc., being able to macro-assist pit-stops or the whole code injection thing.

I think the difference is that this kind of manipulation probably didn't affect us too much in GTR2 as we only really ever raced each other, here, we're part of a wider community so it's much more visible.

I find this kind of thing life-affirming, people are SO inventive :)

BTW, my 'official' position on this is that if people want to 'macro assist' then so be it, I can't stop it and I'm not entirely sure I'd want to anyway.

I think it would be nice if people were open about it (as Shark is above), we can share information and people can decide for themselves.

Oh and it leaves me well-stocked with fresh new excuses!  :laugh:


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: popabawa on August 09, 2010, 09:53:55 AM +0100
I'm not trying to gain a lap time advantage by shifting perfectly, I'm trying to change gears full stop. I don't care how slow the gear change is as long as it does it.

Why not just turn auto-clutch and auto-blip on?


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: Simon Gymer on August 09, 2010, 10:11:59 AM +0100
Why not just turn auto-clutch and auto-blip on?

Because it uses the clutch on up and down shifts which means you have to lift on the up-shift because it doesn't auto-lift off too. I find lifting very un-natural with a flappy paddle gearbox. I can do it, but I don't like it. I also find the blip on the down shifts to be quite extreme (100% throttle I think it is) causing the car to get quite upset on the downshifting, especially whilst cornering, but maybe that's just my incompetance. :D

As I said, I would rather do it as intended, using technique, which is what I'm practicing at, but I don't normally get much practice time. People are moaning that they only had an hour practice, awww, but last week I hadn't even driven the car before I joined the server, 3 minutes before qualifying, so it's hard to be able to pick these things up when you don't get to practice at all! Switching cars is also more difficult because they all require a slightly different technique.

I was fortunate this weekend to have a load of time to practice and I even did my first public race for over 2 months. IndyCar + Mid Ohio. Still LOVE that car, it's just so thrilling to drive and not worrying about the gear change was very nice. :P I started 12th out of 20 and finished 9th, so a good result finishing top 10. Was hoping to pick a few more spots up from crashes, but everyone seemed to stay on more than they used to.  :-\ :)

Incidentally, I tried the click-blip, click-blip technique on the Corvette and it didn't work very well. Seemed to work better with click+blip and a much larger blip, but not terribly well. I guess there is a better technique for that car as all the cars seem to need something slightly different (as expected).

The Radical seems quite compliant to the click-blip, click-blip approach so I'm looking ok for this week. :) Seems very easy to lose the back-end on the Radical round the very fast corners though, so unlike Paul, I'm having to lift in T1 and the last corner too for fear of losing it. :o


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: picnic on August 09, 2010, 10:24:52 AM +0100
I did include a wink with my original comment :) I just thought it was interesting that the two conversations here and at iR seemed to be at opposition to each each. One open and accepted, one deemed a route to full on cheating, yet both using similar techniques to achieve similar goals.



Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: popabawa on August 09, 2010, 10:30:13 AM +0100
Because it uses the clutch on up and down shifts which means you have to lift on the up-shift because it doesn't auto-lift off too.

I think the Radical (along with most of the other cars but not the Skippy) has a 'throttle cut' so you shouldn't need to lift on the up-shift.


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: Simon Gymer on August 09, 2010, 10:31:43 AM +0100
I think the Radical (along with most of the other cars but not the Skippy) has a 'throttle cut' so you shouldn't need to lift on the up-shift.

With the gear changing aids on, the Radical, like the Mazda, over-revs on up-shifts. This will lead to the engine exploding and sounds ruddy awful to boot. :)


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: popabawa on August 09, 2010, 10:32:38 AM +0100
...one deemed a route to full on cheating...

iRacing forums, the home of factual, rational debate since 2008...


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: popabawa on August 09, 2010, 10:33:38 AM +0100
With the gear changing aids on, the Radical, like the Mazda, over-revs on up-shifts. This will lead to the engine exploding and sounds ruddy awful to boot. :)

Ah, OK, I wouldn't know as I'm not cheating ;) lol


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: Simon Gymer on August 09, 2010, 10:35:35 AM +0100
Ah, OK, I wouldn't know as I'm not cheating ;) lol

 :-* ;D


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: popabawa on August 09, 2010, 10:38:11 AM +0100
I think there's a really good case for iRacing to have a good look at the auto-shifting aid behaviour in different cars. Seems ridiculous it engages the clutch for cars that don't require it on the up-shift for example.


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: Mike Wrightson on August 09, 2010, 12:22:55 PM +0100
Incidentally, I tried the click-blip, click-blip technique on the Corvette and it didn't work very well. Seemed to work better with click+blip and a much larger blip, but not terribly well. I guess there is a better technique for that car as all the cars seem to need something slightly different (as expected).
I tried the Vette last night, even ran a race in the fixed setup series  :o I find it like the V8 to shift, more "agricultural" than the Radical and Mazda, but as long as the timing is right it will go.  I find I am braking longer before going for my first downshift too.

The worst gearboxes of the lot are the synchro boxes in the Mustang and Solstice.  The shifting model is far removed from reality, so I can't drive it the same as my road car.  I find them utterly undriveable without auto-clutch.  To downshift them manually, you MUST use heel & toe, when the whole reason the synchro box was invented was so that you don't have to.

The new transmission model is a good thing on the whole, but it needs some tweaking and synchro boxes need a total re-write.  What also needs tweaking are the shift aids.  Nobody should be placed at a disadvantage just because they don't have 3 pedals.


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: Fred Basset on August 09, 2010, 01:30:04 PM +0100
I'm not overly concerned about macros, I think it's a bit of a storm in a teacup tbh. There's no way to stop it though so I'll let peoples consciences decide...  :nono:

Thats the thing, there is absolutely no way to stop it. I've been building a very complex macro to allow both button and voice control of pit stop parameters and more for a few weeks now but have not done anything for the gearchanges. Its a shame as where do you draw the line. I worked out last night how to do a pitlane speed limiter which should be a good thing but am currently debating whether to ever release this.

Regards
Gary


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: popabawa on August 09, 2010, 06:51:31 PM +0100
Server's up!


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: Mike Wrightson on August 09, 2010, 07:11:58 PM +0100
I blew my first Radical engine today downshifting too early  :D  Scared the carp out of me!


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: Fred Basset on August 09, 2010, 09:02:45 PM +0100
You obviously need to work harder on your macro, sorry blipping Mike ;D :angel:

Gary


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: ross.mcw on August 09, 2010, 09:43:11 PM +0100
Great combo.  Have just about got the gearchanges nailed now which I'm happy about.

1m27.2s with race fuel but there's definitely a 26 there somewhere.

Just using the default long road setup though which doesn't feel bad but I suspect could have more grip and less top speed - anyone willing to share anything better that I could try? (pretty please...!)

Cheers, Ross.


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: Mike Wrightson on August 09, 2010, 09:53:12 PM +0100
Shark, Gizmo and I all have setups posted at Team Shark :)


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: Blunder on August 10, 2010, 08:22:06 AM +0100
Crossing my fingers I can make this... no practice so far so it's gonna be tough!


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: popabawa on August 10, 2010, 08:29:12 AM +0100
I really enjoyed that session last night, it felt like I was really getting to grips with the Radical. If you'd told me 3 weeks ago I'd have the transmission aids off and I'd be shifting with some degree of competance I'd have said you were mad! lol

I expect it'll be a pretty action packed race, any shifting mistakes in a couple of turns will you dead on the next straight so there will be good overtaking opportunities I imagine  8)



Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: ross.mcw on August 10, 2010, 08:52:51 AM +0100
Shark, Gizmo and I all have setups posted at Team Shark :)

Thanks Mike, I'll take a look in practice tonight.


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: spanner on August 10, 2010, 10:30:07 AM +0100
Well, i wouldnt have said i was doing anything too wrong but only just managed to get under 1.30 so clearly i am somehow. Seems to understeer in the slower corners but it seems this car needs to be driven a bit differently to how i drive! Not a big fan of loose, pointy cars but seems you need to.

Tried running with clutch off but it feels so strange having to blip it and then it doesnt seem to like it if you have the revs too high so its almost like a diesel!

If Ross is using the default setup to some success i'll give that a try though it probably isnt going to suddenly change my pace.

Do like the combo though, no really chance to relax, going to be tiring.


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: Paul Richards on August 10, 2010, 12:37:04 PM +0100
I should be able to make this one with a bit of luck. First time driving the Radical in ages and its just as good as I remember it being. Should be a good race.


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: Darren Seal on August 10, 2010, 12:49:24 PM +0100
Tried running with clutch off but it feels so strange having to blip it and then it doesn't seem to like it if you have the revs too high so its almost like a diesel!

Try downshifting later into your braking zone.  The slower speeds will make downshifting easier.  Infact, the Radical will let you downshift without blipping if you slow the car down to a speed suitable for the new gear...


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: mr_oily on August 10, 2010, 01:33:20 PM +0100
First time driving the Radical in ages and its just as good as I remember it being.

My sentiments exactly - this track is just a joy, visually it's stunning but it's a terrific layout too and a nice match up with the Radical. I couldn't stop hotlapping, turn 1 is just too inviting. I so hope I make it beyond there this evening!

Ta to Mike for the setup too, seemed to suit me well from the get go - aside from a couple of brown pants moments at the first and last turns early on.

Well off the pace but I can sense it's there, a little less overdriving and I'd hope to be mid grid with any luck.

Anyone got any idea on tyre wear around here - does it drop off a cliff or can we expect some warning??


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: Paul Richards on August 10, 2010, 02:10:26 PM +0100
Anyone got any idea on tyre wear around here - does it drop off a cliff or can we expect some warning??

My RF has been taking a hammering due to T2, the overhill left and the final two corners. So I have loosened my race set up a bit to try and save it a bit but pushing on its never going to last 41 laps. That of course may have some detrimental effect on the rears but I havent done a 20 lap run yet, it was fine after 10 laps though.

It might be possible to take it easy and go without tyre changing but in my case I think being forced to come down the pit lane anyway even not changing tyres and running heavy with fuel is not going to be as quick overall as doing a full tyre and fuel stop. No doubt someone will try it though  :D

It depends on your setup of course but I think I notice the tyres going at the rear rather than the front in this car as they wear especially out of the slower stuff even though the RF % was the most worn.


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: popabawa on August 10, 2010, 06:30:37 PM +0100
Server's up :)


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: Simon Gymer on August 10, 2010, 09:05:04 PM +0100
Qualified amazingly well for me, finally managing to just dip into the 1:25s. A really nice rolling start from Paul who gradually built up the speed and we all settled down. Top 5 with me in 4th were all pulling away from 6th and it was looking quite nice. Then completely out of the blue Q meter in the red and bam throughput fell to unacceptable level and booted me out. No point in returning a lap down so didn't bother trying to rejoin. I very very rarely get this kind of thing on VM cable, so hopefully it's a one off.

Very annoying considering I probably did more practice for that race than I've done in a very long time, had a nice setup, was comfortable and was doing really well in 4th. Oh well, what can you do. See you next time.


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: fozzmeister on August 10, 2010, 09:49:07 PM +0100
Was a fun little race, had one off semi early but was flying (slowly) for most of the race, at lap37 I touched a curb and it speared me off into the tire barrier finishing my race. Overall tho happy as I managed to keep up with a few of the people and had a pretty nice race.

Thanks guys.


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: Adam Parle on August 10, 2010, 09:56:45 PM +0100
One to forget for me.  My pace was getting better, but too many silly offs ruined it.  I've struggled with this combo - to be fair I've flat out struggled with the new build full stop - so to get to the end without hitting anyone/anything was good.

That said, I nearly took Paul out when he came round to lap me!!  See Darren - it's not just you that's in danger from your teammate! :D

Hopefully I'll be a bit more consistent and a bit quicker for the next one.


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: Legzy on August 10, 2010, 10:10:26 PM +0100
Now that's what a car should drive like! Well done iR, you finally got there!!! :angel:

I'm just going to say, "I loved every bit of that" & leave it there.

 8)

p.s. More please.


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer on August 10, 2010, 10:24:10 PM +0100
Got more than I deserved there I think - Darren, Shark and Mike were all quicker but Darren and Shark fell to misfortune and Mike succumbed to my cunning strategy of double stinting the tyres (I think it's pretty well known that the Radical has a very old tyre model which means that wear doesn't really matter until you reach 0% and it goes pop - and temperature balance across the tyre doesn't mean much either).

My frame rates weren't great and every cloud of dust caused it to dip into the 80s and give me little jitters, but fortunately never bad enough to put me off the track. Daytona and Sebring should be a lot better. :)

p.s. Good turnout. :thumbup2:


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: Mike Wrightson on August 10, 2010, 10:50:47 PM +0100
Really enjoyed that, the Radical is so much fun!! :D

I had not run more than 15 laps together, so was unsure of exactly how much fuel to take.  It turned out to need more than I thought, but I added one click too much and had nearly 3 gallons left over at the end.

Stayed in formation with Dave and Shark in the early laps, until Shark disappeared, then closed up to Dave before the stops.  I decided to change tyres and ended up 10 seconds behind Dave!  Did qualifying laps the whole seconds stint to try and pull the gap back.  I was at 2.5s at the end.

Happy with the 3rd place though :)


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: Darren Seal on August 10, 2010, 10:56:50 PM +0100
Great combo that!!!

Started the race in second and tried to settle down into a nice rhythm just behind Paul.   However, on a couple of corners Paul had completely different lines to me which caused me to compromise my own.  After one scare at T2 I decided to back off slightly and give us both some space...  It worked!!  We both started to pull away from Dave and after lap 15 the gap was 10 seconds...

I knew Dave is a wizard at pit stops and I had a feeling he would try something like no tyres to try and get in front.  I was worried 10 seconds wasn't enough and tried to push harder.. BIG mistake!!!  Lap 16, T2,  I entered slightly too deep and just put my rear wheel off into the dirt...  5 360s later I stopped in a cloud of dust. :(

I was so gutted that I had thrown away any chance of a podium that I totally lost my concentration. :-[  For the next 2 laps I was all over the place;  half spinning @ T11 and going off again @ T2..  Those 2 laps (1:41.4 & 1:38.7) cost me 28 seconds which is the eventual gap I finished behind Paul.

I'm not saying I would have won..  I wouldn't have..  Paul 'iceman' Richards was always comfortable out in front.  Even though our pace was similar there was no way I would have passed him...  Great driving  :notworthy:

Luckily my concentration soon returned and I set about chasing down Dave and Mike...  It was an impossible task especially when they both left the pit lane over 24 seconds ahead, but I kept pushing in the hope they would take each other off.  :angel:

Considering how close I came to quiting on that 2nd disastrous lap, I'm very happy I stuck with it and claim a very respectable 4th; especially considering the quality of the field.

To top it off I also managed to steal the lap record from Paul on my last lap.  Sorry Paul  :angel:

Congrats to Paul for the win, sorry I ruined what could have been an epic battle.  Also well done to Dave and Mike for 2nd and 3rd..  Well deserved...  Oh and unlucky Simon...

Hope to see you all at Sebring...

*************
Message to Pops
*************

Sebring is missing from the championship schedule (only 8 listed instead of 9).  It should be race 2....


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: Blunder on August 11, 2010, 07:09:10 AM +0100
Morning all,

How good was that!.... awesome!  ;)

Had no practice until 7pm last night so was always on the back foot!
Got down to a 1.26.7 in practice but strugglked to put in a clean lap in quali but eventually managed a 26.9.
Don't know why I have such a problem in quali.... I practice on race fuel normally and find low fuel slower!... go figure!?  :-\

Good clean start! Well done Paul, sounds like that was down to you.... bumper to bumper action back in 10th!
I was going well, the more the race went on the quicker I got!  ;D
Basically had some great battles all the way with the likes of Ross, TT and others and was keeping Paul T honest right to the end!
I thought I might have got you Paul but the last 5 laps you had the measure of me!
Fantastic close racing, no let up! Exhausted!  ;)

Well done all!

Thanks Pops! a great combination, sounds like most people loved it!

Looking forward to the next one!

M.


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: Paul Thurston on August 11, 2010, 07:49:56 AM +0100
Sometimes I wonder why I do this.  Races like last night remind me.

I'd worked hard for this one.  As soon as the Radical was chosen I started to work out how to drive it.  I've always had trouble with it's habit of swapping directions mid corner and I'd not previously driven at Philip Island.  I developed a setup which suits me and which I can drive all day at 9 tenths, figuring a clean race would bring a good result.

In Monday's practice session I concentrated on doing a full fuel run to figure out a strategy.  I figured a 9.9 first stint coupled with 7 gallons at the stop would safely get me home with a fast pre pitstop period while the 50:50 stoppers were carrrying fuel.  In the pre race practice I concentrated on pitstops.  The only thing I hadn't got round to was a low fuel run and that nearly came back to bite me.

For qually I just took the fuel out which resulted in a car which oversteered massively in the fast stuff.  It took a few laps to get a clear lap and I put in a fairly smooth lap as a banker.  As I was coming to the line I thought "OK, that's a mid 27, I'll have to do better than that".  Then the time came up = 1:26.6, a new PB!  Fair enough, I can go quicker than that.  I eased off for the next lap to get a space and made sure I got a real slingshot out of the final two left handers.  Mark came out of the pits in front of me and I was caught in two minds which side of him to go into the hairpin.  I chose left but missed my braking point.  I braked harder than usual and got round the corner sweet as a nut so filed away that new braking point for later.  1:26.3, half a second faster than my pre session PB.  8th.  Good start.

I apparently lost a place off the start though I'm not entirely sure how.  It didn't matter as people soon started slipping wide and spinning up ahead and I started to pick up places.  After 10 laps or so I was in fifth and had a little pack of cars swapping around behind me but other than the odd challenge at one of the hairpins if I had a bad lap I was comfortable, especially as I felt I was probably carrying more fuel.

Then the gearbox bit me.  Ross was the current leader of the chasing gaggle and he'd got close enough into the final hairpin to be big in my mirrors, though there was no room to get by.  The distraction must have been enough for me to make a mistake and miss first gear.  I finally found it as I was 75% round the corner, put the power down and pirouetted to the inside.  I found reverse, positioned myself to rejoin and waited for the pack to pass.  It could have been worse but suddenly I was reliant on them having less fuel than me.

I was behind Pops Pete and was catching him but not by anything significant.  After a while people started to pit and my position improved.  Soon I was back to 5th.

Coming down the straight I saw Paul and Dave coming out of the pits.  They came out just in front of me and I slotted in behind Dave.  By this time I was up to third, it occurred to me later than without my spin I'd have been in the lead but in the event third was perfect.  Dave's pace helped me put together a string of low 27s and 26s just when I needed them.  At the 2 lap warning I did one more lap and came in.  The pitstop practice paid off and a perfect stop ensued but I came out inches behind Matthew into 6th.  Luckily he stopped at the end of that lap, it hadn't occurred to me that he'd not stopped which put me back to fifth.

The rest of the race was spent concentrating to keep the competition behind me and trying not to feel smug.  Initially that was Ross who was 2-3 seconds back.  He started to catch me a little but I managed to maintain a safe gap until Martin got past him.  I wasn't sure of Martin's pace and he seemed to be catching me so I upped my pace to match.  I had to negotiate a couple of lapped cars spinning in front which got the gap to 1.8 seconds which I considered too close for comfort so started using my new deep braking point into the hairpin and concentrating on getting the power down earlier at the key points.  With a lap to go I'd pulled it out to 3 seconds so eased off slightly to avoid stupid mistakes and brought it home in fifth.

Looking at the results I'd not have caught Darren even without the spin.  If I'd not spun and not changed tyres then I might have been pretty close to him but realistically I think that was as good as I could have done.

I do love it when a plan comes together.

Sebring I've not done so much work at.  Better get down to it.

Paul
:)


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: Paul Thurston on August 11, 2010, 08:36:05 AM +0100
I thought I might have got you Paul but the last 5 laps you had the measure of me!
Yeah, so did I.  ;D

You finished under two seconds behind me and the laps around my pitstop lap were 3.8 seconds quicker than yours.  Talk about marginal.

Paul
:)


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: Blunder on August 11, 2010, 09:25:29 AM +0100
Lol... that is interesting to read.... my in lap was very slow as I was doing mental arithmetic trying to figure out exactly how much fuel to put in!  ;D
I started with 7.1 which only gave me 18 laps when I was hoping for half distance!
Didn't want to overfill it!
Sounds like I better be more prepared next time  ;)

Great racing though!  ;D


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: picnic on August 11, 2010, 09:30:47 AM +0100
I don't enjoy driving the Radical anywhere near as much as the LM (or V8 last week), there is such a fine fine between staying on or falling off I can't relax and enjoy the experience. In each of the 3 sessions last night my quickest lap was no slower that 0.15 sec off my optimum. Maybe that implies I'm consistently well up to my maximum but with others going 2 secs a lap quicker surely somewhere I can find more time  :-\

Start was clean and somehow I got a place at the right hand hairpin half way round the circuit on L1. Ade braked and stayed well wide on the racing line so I braked on to the rear bumper of Martin. I couldn't quite match Martin's pace although he seemed to make a few minor mistakes that allowed me to close the gap occasionally. Paul's spin I think distracted Martin and he half spun at the right hander after the steep hill. All I could do was to stop inorder to avoid hitting him. I was then of course in completely the wrong gear and by the time I messed around lost a couple of seconds which I couldn't get back.

I managed to keep the recovering Paul about 2.5-3 secs back until a couple of laps before the pitstop where I caught too much curb going through T1. Luckily I didn't hit anything and carried on, losing 13 secs and the place back to Paul. Somehow I seemed to gain some time in the pitstops. Martin was still up the road but closer and TT had dropped behind. It was then a question of trying to get to the end which I did without further offs.

Without losing those 13 secs in my spin I could have been in the Martin/Paul battle for the 2nd half of the race, instead it was me all on my tod hoping the car would stay on track.


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: Truetom on August 11, 2010, 11:03:12 AM +0100
I started with 7.1 which only gave me 18 laps when I was hoping for half distance!

Same here. That tool seems a bit unreliable, 12,7 said 44 laps. :( Had to pit early and so I couldn't drive as quickly in the second stint - the tyres go off quite soon. I would use harder tyres if this was a proper sim. :-X  Anyways, lost a lot of places in the second stint. I think my best position was 5th for some laps, then started to backwards. :-\

Finaly got a stable setup and could do stable, if a bit slower laptimes. Still, this works for hotlapping. When another car comes closer I mostly don't see it 'cause I need to watch the road and there were some moments with a yellow car (Blunder, I guess) where I just saw ... something. And this is not close racing, I was just scared like ... to punt anyone off. :( Punt? An ugly look is enough. :( So I rather let people by.

I did enjoy hotlapping in this car, I must say, more than I have before. Mostly 'cause of the stable setup. Darren's was ok, just a bit understeary, so when I fixed it I could go faster. How he got 25s with his setup I can't really fathom. ::) I experimented with hard rear arb and was 0,5 s quicker, except in the last turn. There the rear stepped out and if I backed down I lost time. Still, a thing or two to think about for the next time. :)

Grats pody.   


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: Mike Wrightson on August 11, 2010, 11:35:23 AM +0100
And while we all got on with the job of learning the new transmission (or using the aids), the macro complaints thread at iRacing is up to it's 31st page  :D

If they spent the time practicing instead of complaining , they would have worked it out by now!

No macros here, can't be bothered with it, and a few missed shifts in the race as a result, but it's all part of the fun  ;D  it's what makes iRacing so involving.


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: Paul Thurston on August 11, 2010, 11:48:26 AM +0100
I would use harder tyres if this was a proper sim. :-X
Not if the series specified a control tyre you wouldn't, as the majority of them do in real life.


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: Truetom on August 11, 2010, 01:00:06 PM +0100
Would make some spicy comments but I'm generaly a polite person. ;)


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: ross.mcw on August 11, 2010, 01:54:00 PM +0100
Had great fun with this last night - really excellent combo and mastering (kind of) the new gearbox model is very satisfying.  We should all have a gentleman's agreement NOT to use any macro helpers!

Very pleased to qualify as high as I did managing finally to get a mid 26.  Had a decent first lap and was settled in behind a bunch (Paul/Pops/TT?).  After a couple went off I was left chasing Paul but was struggling to see where I could get past.  Eventually he had a slow entry into the right hander at the bottom of the hill leaving me a slot to try and get past on the inside.  Unfortunately, Paul closed the gap and our contact caused me to stop while he span in front.  Anyhow, no harm done and I got back under way in front of the gaggle I'd been chasing so I was happy enough with that.

Somehow ended up in 5th I think but then had to pit earlier than I'd hoped due to assuming incorrectly that 7.1 would get me past 20 laps.  Ended up adding too much fuel and after a tyre change came out just behind Legzy and Rob (I think) with Ade and James behind me.

Once the pit stops had sorted themselves about, I was chasing Paul again with Martin and Peter behind me but my concentration by this point was going and a couple of tyres on the dirt meant I let them both past leaving me to finish somewhere near the back of the finishers.

All in all, it was really great, but I should really have done better than I did.  Very enjoyable.


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: spanner on August 11, 2010, 02:44:15 PM +0100
Glad everyone seemed to enjoy it. Was content enough to sit at the back as it is just fun hot lapping on your own. Surprised i managed to last to the end tbh, the flowing corners help. Even if i was still struggling in places, the lefthander onto the back straight seems a double apex but never got it right, and was clearly braking alot earlier into the downhill RH hairpin but always ended up too fast into it.

Next time I need to adjust the wheel lock down to 350 from 400 as i felt i was having to turn the wheel too much, and clearly increase the brake force.

I hope auto clutch isnt considered cheating.


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: spanner on August 11, 2010, 04:32:41 PM +0100
No results yet?


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: Blunder on August 11, 2010, 04:43:10 PM +0100
Learnt the combo with the auto clutch / blip etc.
Then turned it off! and did some more practice!
By the end of the race I was starting to get the hang of it!
It's quite satifying blippin down the box!
Gets a thumbs up from me!  ;)


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: Mike Wrightson on August 11, 2010, 08:20:14 PM +0100
I hope auto clutch isnt considered cheating.
Using an aid provided by the game is never cheating.

Yes, the shifting is harder than it was before, but so satisfying when you get it all right  ;D  It's this involvement that makes the majority of rFactor mods feel utterly sterile.


Title: Re: iRacing Season 4 Radical - Phillip Island - Aug 10
Post by: popabawa on August 13, 2010, 02:33:31 PM +0100
Apologies for not uploading the results, I sulked off after the race then have been out of circulation for a few days.

That was one of the most miserable races I've ever taken part in. After feeling like I'd made a lot of progress on Monday, felt comfortable with the aids off and had some pace, what followed was a sleepless night due to a poorly 3 year old and an utterly, utterly miserable day in work which left me completely shattered and unable to concentrate at all.

I was so disappointed. I really tried hard for that one, I'm only glad I didn't take anyone out...

The overall comments seem to be pretty positive though which makes up for it a bit :)