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Season 19 Spec Race Challenge - Round 10 - Monza 10K

Final UKGPL race of the season will be a Spec Challenge event at Monza. Slight variation is we are using the older Monza 10K track, which is the original track with a banked loop. The other difference is another switch of Mod to the 1969 cars, with wings ~ and no wings don’t enable you to fly off the banks.  If you haven’t seen the 1966 film Grand Prix there is some great action shot at Monza 10K in the closing sequences.

Sorry about the late posting – been away on hols. Apart from a the Lesmos and Parabolica its just flat out & very fast. Hope to see you Sunday pm.

The track (no 47) is available here http://gpltd.bcsims.com/?dis=M&menu=Show_Letters

We will run two races on the same track. Two chassis are available, you must use one in each race. Use the same car twice earns you a disqualification in the second race.
Your choice of chariot for this occasion is the 1969 Mod ~ Mclaren M7 and the Matra MS80

The Spec Series is a full championship with standard points scoring. In addition the moderator will also tally up every drivers fastest race lap & compare the chassis head to head. For your time to count in the “Spec Challenge” you must complete more than 50% distance in both races. Resets are allowed so don’t retire because of a bad start.
Also the Spec Series in the only GPL championship to be decided exclusively by driver skill, no handicapping applies.

Race List = IGOR
Server = UKGPL_T7_2 *
IP address = 62.149.202.168
Race date = 15-08-2010
Time = 21:00 UK time (21:00 GMT)
Track = Monza 10K
Variant = 69 F1
Chassis – ~ McLaren & Matra
Damage Model = Intermediate
Qualifying time = 20 minutes [Server will start at 23 mins]
Race length = Intermediate Short
[* Second server kindly provided by Nicky Ickx]

Password: see above

Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=251&theme=6)

Unlimited Shift-R is allowed in the race. No-fault Shift-Rs will not attract a Stop & Go penalty.  All other Shift-Rs must be followed by a Stop & Go.

Please be in IGOR UKGPL chatroom by 8:50 pm UK Time = GMT).

Due to the number of races moderating will be light touch - reported incidents only, however the moderators reserve the right to review any incident with a particular emphasis on lap one. The aim is to review the race the following weekend so incident reports should be submitted within five days of the race (i.e. the following Friday).

The Championship is split into two sub-divisions, the Light Brigade & the Heavy Brigade. The driver allocation is set out below.

LIGHT BRIGADE drivers

Burtoner	Evil Clive	John Roberts
Tim FMG	Hristo	Jethro
Nicky Ickx	Bartosz (Pod)	King Hiro
Clutch	Al Hellar	Ruud Savelkoul
Sam B	Fulvio P	Natan

HEAVY BRIGADE drivers

Bernie	Billy	Bookie
Maestro	Norbert	D Rock
Fabio / Il Lupo	N Hance	Phil T
Nigel Smith	Gilles27	Steve Bird
Graham P	Maddog	Vosblod
Francesco (r) **

NOTE: In the event of more then 19 entrants a second grid for the Light Brigade will be run by Nicky. Please ensure you join the correct server, due to the way we import if you start the race on the wrong server your result will not count. If you can try to make sure you are in the chatroom by 8.50pm this will enable a decision without any delays to the start time.

** ; I've added in new driver Francesco as a 'Heavy'

If you are new to 69 Mod you will find that the rear view mirrors show the rear suspension of the car & not much else. Very realistic but does retsrict your view. There is a way of clearing them but I can't remember how. A bit late in the day but if anyone does have instructions can you post here. Ta.

Correct me if I'm wrong but...
Go into your Sierra/GPL cars folder, select your wing setting then chassis and copy the files in the 'clear mirrors' subfolder back into your main car folder. For McLaren read Eagle and for Matra read Murasama.

Will try that, Tim and thanks Billy for the reminder - I always forget to do that and end up being pissed off by the lack of visibility in my mirrors.

Oh dear this is very new to me. If you can get around my weaving bucking bronco of a car you should have a good race. Just had a half hour practice and am wishing I hadn't voted for a 69 Spec race. Will do my very best though. By the way, high or low wings?

Same physics Nigel, so whichever looks the prettiest to you.  Take note :  a reset on the Monza banking, will dump you unceremoniously back onto the track, and into harms way. :o  It must've been hell back in '66 !

As far as the wings are concerned Nigel it is down to your own personal choice.

 If you select "low wing" then all of the cars that you see on your computer will have "low wings. But, in the same race, if I select "high wings" then all the cars that I see will have "high wings".

Whichever graphic option you choose does not affect the handling of the cars, that stays the same.

If you are having real probs driving these beasts I suspect that you are not being brave enough ::)
Sudden lifts of the gas pedal and re-application of the same will generate a very twitchy car.

Try braking a little earlier ( don't stamp on the brakes, apply smoothly and progressively) get off the brakes BEFORE the corner and smoothly apply the go juice through the apex, feeling how much it will take. These 69 cars corner much better under power when they can make use of all that extra grip.

It might also be worth raising the ride height a few notches to "soften" the car response until you feel more confident in the handling.

Thanks  Evil, I have been using the default settings, with a stiffer front end to stabilise the braking, it seems to make the lift off oversteer less snappy too. Tried less wing to improve straight line speed but it only makes a couple of mph difference.

Great first race ;D, not too good in the second due to a couple of crashes  :(

A big thanks to Bill for organizing a great series this season.  Hopefully the last race has kindled a bit more interest in the 69s.  I know the draft is a little unrealistic but it does provide some entertaining racing  :fencing:

Warning: long post ahead!

Those were some totally insane races last night, but I quite enjoyed them both!

Race 1 Report

I struggled for the whole of Qualifying for Race 1 by being unable to come up with a setup that works. I was 4-5 seconds off the pace and was clueless that it's as much down to slipstream (or lack of) as anything else!  ::)

Initially I thought "they must be running no wings" so I tried that and it sucked. I went out on my last run with f3.5 / r4.0 wing settings, but it felt quite slow again, without anybody to give me a tow. I was confused where the lap begins and ends, so while the session had actually finished, I was still doing a hotlap thinking I've crossed the correct s/f line before the flag fell.  :P

Apparently not as I was rudely taken off the track and shown the countdown to the start - and I didn't even have a race setup!!! Hectically, I did some quick adjustments to the gears and wing, just to notice that it was the default setup which was loaded! Very nervous I quickly selected my qual setup, changed two parameters (5th and fuel, didn't dare for more in fear of missing the start) and JUST managed to join the grid with a few secs to spare.  :o

I had a great start and passed a couple of cars, and soon after went into the lead. The car was working great it seemed and the others were struggling or taking it easy. Once at the front it didn't take much to surrender to the enormous slipstream of those behind, but at least I could do the same as soon as we switched positions.

The battle became very intense with 4-5 of us passing each other frequently and going side by side almost everywhere. If only someone would get it a bit wrong, we would've all suffered the inevitable. And sadly it happened - I didn't know who it was at the time, but as it turned out later it was Tim who had a slight twitch on the exit of the 2nd banked corner and just when I was inside of him.  :wetfish: :ban:

The result was complete carnage with car parts, fire and smoke going in all directions, involving 3 or 4 cars. Two managed to escape ahead unharmed, but I thought at the time that one of them was Tim and that my Championship is almost surely over. I shift-r-ed after a very long wait until all cars went by, dropping down to 10-12th as a result.  >:(  :wacko:

I didn't do a pitstop and went on with a do-or-die charge - it worked well and I was able to pass a lot of cars while others choose to throw themselves off or make contact with each other thus opening the road. Somehow I reached 3rd place which was quite a surprise, but then I saw Tom on the pitboard at 18 seconds up ahead - an impossible task with 2 laps to go, so I just brought it home and surprisingly took the fastest lap of the race.  ;D  :punk:

Race 2 Report

Much to my surprise Tim finished behind me in the first one and suddenly the Championship situation looked better, so we went into the 2nd race to decide the outcome. This time I knew how to approach the car setup for the Matra (used the McLaren in the 1st one, luckily), but apart from a vague tow in one of my early laps, I couldn't find anyone to pull me properly! This resulted in 4th on the grid and a feeling of uncertainty over the race.  :sweatdrop:

Another good start, but this time had to ease off to avoid Tim who bogged down in front of me, then had to drop that position because Al was extremely cautious and slow in T1, Curva Grande - he took the outside line, let Tim by and I began to suspect he's not running a lot of wing, if any at all - the sheer difference in corner speed was to prove that very soon.  :wheelchair:

Managed to deal with Al in the Lesmos and chase after Tim who was trailing Evil's rocket. Tim messed up Parabolica and went off into the gravel, elevating me into 2nd and making me think it's all over for him. The aforementioned insane tow quickly closed me up on Evil and once I went by, he disappeared into what seemed like an incident behind.  :'(

The race was shaping up to be an easy one, but Al and Sam proved me wrong by completely obliterating me on the straights, then slowing me down immensely in the corners! No wings for sure, but once I could retake the lead I could easily open up a 2 seconds gap in just the section from CG to Lesmo 2.  :punk:

It wasn't enough though and by Parabolica they were right behind again. Soon, out of nowhere, Tim reappeared and joined the battle! He had no plans to cruise around so once he dealt with the McLarens, we had a very close fight going side by side at CG and then Lesmos, but were eaten up on the straight after by those behind.  :helpsmilie:

Tim made his second mistake when he couldn't quite hold it another time on the outside round CG and glued it to the railguard, dropping back to 4th and out of sight, but not for long - damn that infinite tow, lol!  :2guns:

Al then disappeared with his screen freeze and for a lap or two I was left to fight with Sam. I used that chance to practice my last lap tactic and discover what is the best positioning taking top speeds and slipstream length into account. I figured out I had to be behind the leader before the 2nd banked corner that leads onto the (outside) s/f straight where the chequered flag is waved. The problem was that I was much quicker in the corners and always ended up leading by a decent gap out of Parabolica, so something had to change.  :shifty:

The arrival of Tim (again!) and Tom (out of nowhere too) did change things and suddenly we were 4 cars fighting for victory! I surrendered the lead reluctantly with 2 laps to go just to do a test of my finishing run scenario. It took some risk diving between two cars, but it worked fairly well once the car in 2nd was denied the slipstream which I was taking advantage of. It was just a matter of timing it right.  :rockon:

I crossed the line at the start of the final lap JUST ahead of Tom (I think) and focused on repeating the feat next time by. Led by a very large margin up to Parabolica, which was worrying because I needed them to pass me before or at the 1st banking. Therefore I eased off a bit to let Tim by and he took the chance while I was smiling because I thought "there's no way he can hold on to that lead until the finish".  :whistling:

The bad part was we were so close that I had no option but let Tom through as well and have Sam on my side - 4 cars packed 2 by 2, with no room to go in any direction! It was looking bad indeed, but I tried to stay as perfectly lined up behind Tim (who had the higher road on the banking) and maybe launch a final attack on the run to the line.  :scooter:

In the meantime Sam wobbled and dropped back, but Tim and Tom were still running side by side with no room in between. Tom had a bit of a bad exit of the final corner and I saw the minor gap that opened between his car and Tim's Matra as my only chance! Delayed exiting the tow as late as possible and turned right to go side by side with Tim, but overdid it and hit Tom who was on the right!  :oops:

Carnage ensued and we both had our cars wrecked, mine flipping over and dragging along, but we both managed to cross the line in 2nd and 3rd respectively, just half a second behind Tim! Having looked at the replay, I could have pulled it off if I didn't go so much to the right, but the cars look so fat from inside the cockpit!  ;D  :tank:

Anyway, I don't know who won the title, but that was some extreme racing! The only downside was the bad FPS (as always) that comes with Monza10k. IMO we should scrap the GBGPL thing about 69s and run our own division, or just have more 69 races in the Spec series. Perhaps mirror Breasts mixed double races where we run 2 different mod in 2 races each week (usually 65 and 69). I would like that.

Cheers,

-=Hristo=-

Still don't know myself, If you had just the one Shift-R as a result of me then you've won easily (well, by 40 odd points I guess). If you had an own fault Shift-R later in race 1 and didn't come in for it then we're going to be damn close! As 30 seconds would put you behind me I think which combined by my win in race 2 really narrows things down :fencing:


As for my own races I've no idea where to start. Race 1 was brilliant right up until I took out half the lead cars on the end of lap 2  :ninja:
While i managed to keep it clean from then on my 2 resets and SnG's resulted in only finishing 6th IIRC.

For race 2 I was caught out by the flagman and managed to bog down despite the Matra launching better when I was setting it up off line!  ::)
Didn't worry me as I knew that the monster draft would make the start irrelevent.
Hristo's described most of my race with only one important absense - that being my utterly lucky escape from what must have been Clive's (and about 5 others) huge pileup on the SF straight! Don't know how I avoided the carnage but I did, and that allowed me to get right back on the leaders  ;D

Brilliant racing lads, I think everyone was as clean as the mod/track would allow so a big slap on the back for all of us  :angel:

Yeah that second race simply superb. H pretty much described my race, and yes I was running hardly any wing at all due to my inexperience with the 69s  ;D. Kind of annoyed at myself for clipping the hill and the end of the banking causing me to spin. I might have nipped by into 2nd after H & Tom's dramatic ending, but at least I had a grandstand seat  :D.

The first race was a complete disaster however, though I did my bit of emulating the film Grand Prix with my spectacular crash on the banking. At least it the empty track gave me some time to accustom to the car with the remaining laps.

Congrats to Tim for the win of the second race (can't remember who won the first one  ::)) and to H for winning the Spec title. Also a big thank you to Phil and the rest of the mods for organising Season 19 and best of luck with the restructuring of UKGPL next season. I hope I can attend Season 20 from the offset this time round.

Last race of the season, my favorite track and my two year GPL anniversary (think that officially makes me a toddler now).
A couple of mostly enjoyable events with some good racing. Had to do a few Sh/R's but was a rear end and some cars admiring the scenary ahead so took them as no fault.
Really enjoyed the Specs - no chance this season so just took them as a bit of fun to break the intensity of the Privateers and Novices. Enjoyed having a mix of mods.

I guess this is where, bar any modding and sorting out the votes, Phil hangs up his golden boots and picks up his shiny new zimmer frame. I'd like to pay tribute to his great leadership and fairness, it's not easy as there are often two points of view and both are sure they are right LOL. A big pair of boots to fill - I'll do my best and wear thick socks. Glad you will still be racing with us, but you might regret your decision to step down - the Mrs might find you even more DIY jobs now  :wacko:

Results now posted. I will upload the Replays soon - probably tomorrow.
Subject to moderation it looks like our champions are Hristo in the Light Brigade (11 wins from 16 starts) & Steve Bird in Heavy Brigade (13 wins from 20 starts). Phil officially retires as Chief Mod, signing out with a win.
Personally I thought the slipstreaming was a bit excessive although from the race posts above this seems to have contributed to rather than detracted from the fun. I won't be doing the usual Spec Comparsion as the tow diferential will make this a bit of a nonsense.

Spec Racing has completed its full season. Thanks to all those that have taken part. Intent was to have the organisation of a proper championship but the spirit of fun races & I think this has been achieved. 

Has someone noticed the overall finish time of both races? Just tenths of a second apart, despite all the carnage!

Big thanks to Phil for his work in the backroom of GPL.
It ain't always easy and it is not until one stops and thinks about all that actually happens "as if by magic", that you realise quite how much time and commitment is involved every week.
 :thumbup2: :clap: :thumbup2: :clap: :thumbup2: :clap:

So, we finally had a 69 race  ::) and strangely people found it to be fun  :o :o despite the carnage at several points in both races lol.
And yes, I'm going to say it!!   "I told you so!!"  ;D ;D

Although I have raced 69's for a while, I tend to run the BRM or Lotus 63 so really had no "proven" setups for the McLaren or Matra and therefore had no "home" advantage for these races.

IMHO the exaggerated slipstream effect is at its worst at Monza 10K, because of the hugely long flat out section, easily gaining the following car 4-6 secs a lap. On other circuits it is less of a factor, but always important enough to look for if you are chasing someone.

Race 1 and I was feeling quite happy in my cobbled together setup for the Macca. I knew that pole position at this track is maybe NOT an advantage with the slipstream available, so was quite content with 5th or 6th because no-one was going to pull away in the early laps.
Sure enough a gaggle of cars was swapping poitions on every straight and dragging each other along at a fair old pace and me with them. Until...................................... Tim and Hristo decided to knit their wheels together at 200mph as they came off the banking :o :o yep right in front of yours truly :-\ There were orange body parts everywhere and for all of 0.00001 of a second there was a gap. Then it went orange as well! and I got an ariel view of the pit roof.
SHIFT -R and rejoined the race with Tim and Hristo some way back. I think I was so out of touch with Shift-R's that when Tim dived into the pit ( I later discovered that it was his admission of guilt for the carnage lol) I had an overwhelming desire to do the same on the next lap!! although I was merely a recipient of the mayhem. That dropped me back down the field and out of contention for the lpodium places but I had a great dice with Nicky and a photo finish with the slipstream.
Race 2 started extremely well and I was over a second clear exiting the Lesmos. But I knew that the drag act behind would soon pull that back on this circuit unless they fell over themselves. Sure enough, approaching Curve Grande I was swamped with cars hurtling up the inside!!! I held a straight line intending to take a wide fast line around CG when I was launched skywards again , performing a triple salco with 2.5 twists and a body roll, for an artistic impression score of 9.5 on the Richter scale.
By the time I had landed ( stopped laughing) and thought about a shift R, all was quiet and everyone was gone, so I decided on an early bath.


If we are contemplating a fun 69 season, can I put in a vote for a return to handicapping by pitstops for any such series? The difference between the fast cars and the slow cars is very noticeable in the 69's and there will inevitably be a grid of Lotii  ( not 63's!!) and Matras. But some swingeing pitstops against the faster cars might encourage useage of some other chassis? or one that escapes the pitstop altogether.
I always found that pitstops added an extra "fun" and tactical dimension to GPL. All to often in races you can find yourself running alone, but if you know that the car 20 secs in front has a 10 sec pitstop to perform, it does add a extra incentive to push and be there when he exits pits. Or conversely if you know that you are the one who has to stop, then you need to build a cushion very methodically and choose exactly the best time to take your stop.

Grats to Billy for an inspired season of great fun with the "Spec Race" formula and to everyone who took part.

For what it's worth I was running 1 degree of front wing and that was it  :)
Enough to make the car bite and corner quickly, but not enough to slow it noticable out of a tow. My qualifying time for race 2 was achieved with clean air to give you an idea how well that worked  ;D

lol ,....and I was running 6.5 front and 8.75 rear, which explains why I shot away at the start of race 2 until I got to the straight bit!!  :-\

Wouldn't say shot away as such - I've noticed of late that my setups tend to be dire while on cold tyres, that was the case for both the Macca and the Matra.
All these green things seem inconsistent in that manner where-as if the Waza's were good cold then they'd be good hot too!  ;D

The Matra wasn't nice for the first lap and a half and took about 4 or 5 to get really nice (probably should have thought more about that as it was only a 7lap race  :-[)

Evil, I've noticed this a lot in your posts, but you do have a lot of whitespace in the bottom of them.

Yes I've noticed that lately too :-\ Not quite sure what the cause is????

I have something odd happening whilst I am typing a post as well, which is probably connected.

I can type the first 10 lines (ish) of text quite ok, and as with any text software it simply scrolls down to expose the next vacant line. But, after a certain point, although I am still typing text, it refuses to automatically scroll down and remains fixed on the view of the first 10 lines.

Meanwhile text is being added below what I can see and the only way to view it is to physicaly drag the scroll bars down. This exposes the "new" text but as soon as any key is pressed it reverts to the view of the top 10 lines again, so I am typing blind.
( no noticeable difference there!! I hear you say).
I'm guessing that this has something to do with the "blank" space at the bottom.

Any of you tekkies out there have any ideas????

Probably it's because you have a lot more to say, and it automatically leaves space :)

I was able to go into the post and edit it to remove the blank lines.  It could be something to do with your browser.  I use Firefox 3.6.8.  What browser and version are you using?

Internet Explorer 8 ( I think)

Just out of interest I dusted down a Mclaren 69 Low Wing and did Monza 10K - Not too bad, I thought, no mistakes - stayed (mostly) on line and didn't spin off - which, for me, is an achievement. I was filled for five laps and used the default setup. Max revs in top was about 7200 and the lap took 3:16 - what am I doing wrong! I am not good but I am not that bad...

That's a whole minute down on a regular laptime. Are you sure it was the 69 mod? :P

Welcome BB,
 
Two simple things you could try.  Your maximum revs are low, so change the gearset to a higher number, to get higher gears.  Your rev counter should get to straight up, without a problem.

If your car has wings, make one of them a lot less, then the other one instead.  This will tell you if you prefer oversteer, or understeer.  Then you can progress to the fiddly bits, with an idea of what's wanted.

Paul I noticed your RPM was low at Kyalami too.  Are you sure you are getting full movement on the throttle i.e. Is it fully calibrated properly?

Sounds a bit like a 65 chassis running a default 67/69 setup to me, that would explain the revs....
Ideally you want to be topping out at just over 9,500rpm (in a DFV powered car) in 5th on the main straight when hotlapping without traffic.
You don't need much wing angle, but more maybe better to help you if you're still finding your feet  :)

Hi Badblood. Are you definitely in the Grand Prix car as opposed to the novice/basic trainer? I just tried a lap in the novice trainer & it doesn't go above 7500 rpm & the laptime was 3 min+... In GEM double check you have "Standard Chassis" selected in the drop-down rather than the basic or advanced trainer.

 

Oddly this is what I use on the Win7 machine and it does the odd scrolling thing too.
Most of my post race reporty things have to be done on either the other pc (firefox) or at work (also firefox)

Finally figured out what was happening - max speed was about 125 even with no wing - it was GEM - there is an evil little check box that overrides the grand prix car and gives you a novice trainer even when you select standard chassis! Took that off and soon I was crashing at 180... its much tougher - I thought the 69's were a bit boring up til now!

Mind you - I can't complete a lap now <sigh>