SimRacing.org.uk

UKGPL Season 20 Novices Trophy (1965 Mod) Race 2 October 26th

Welcome to round 2 of the 65 Novices season, and we find ourselves at a different circuit to the Amateurs for the first time of many this season because they can't handle the challenge of this great flowing circuit.

The Zeltweg Airfield was used for a Formula One Grand Prix as early as 1964, but we are racing at the nearby Österreichring where races were held from 1970 to 1987 and from 1997 to 2003 before the track was dismantled for refurbishing.

Please note we are using the recent 1971 version with improved graphics. (zeltw71)

For Season 20 the Chassis have been split into 4 groups:
GROUP 1
Lotus, Ferrari, BRM, Honda
GROUP 2
BT11
GROUP 3
Cooper
GROUP 4
BT7

The Drivers have also been split into groups 1,2,3 and 4, and may take any chassis in their seeding group or any car below it, but not above it.

i.e. If you are seeded 2 you may take any car in group 2, 3 or 4 but not 1. If you are seeded 3 you may take either the Cooper or the BT7 but nothing faster. If you are seeded 1 you may take any chassis you prefer.

Those that raced at Mosport have now chosen their chassis for the season and must continue to use it unless the moderator approves or requests a change.

FULL TIME

DRIVER	CHASSIS
Vosblod	Cooper
NHance	BT11
Miner2049er	Cooper
Il_Lupo	Ferrari
Billy NoBrakes	BT11
HappyAL	Ferrari
Gilles27	BT11
Burtoner	3
Nigel Smith	Honda
Ronnie Peterson	Lotus
Blito	Ferrari
Mark65	1
Artiglietti	Lotus
BadBlood	Honda
RogUK	Cooper
Norbert	Ferrari
Maddog	Cooper

RESERVE

DRIVER	CHASSIS
Karliss	Honda

Reserve drivers should not join the server until there are only 30 minutes of qualifying left so as to give the FULL TIME drivers chance to join, and drivers are not to go out on track until there are 30 minutes of qualifying left as this helps all drivers join the server successfully.

Please restrict chat to pit messages if necessary, and this includes the end of the race, until all running drivers have completed the necessary laps.

The Novice races are run under Int Long rules and all incidents will be moderated.

Race List = IGOR
Server = UKGPL5
IP address = ping myjamesonline.net
Race date = 26-10-2010
Time = 21:00 UK time
Track = Zeltweg 1971 (zeltw71)
Variant = 65F1
Damage Model = Int
Qualifying time = 35 minutes
Race length = 24 laps
Password: see above (#post_event_password)

65 Patch: The 2.02 Release of the 65mod can and should be used.
http://bit.ly/bXzLhk

Password: see above (#post_event_password)

Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R;group=279;theme=6)

The track can be downloaded from here.

http://www.f1legends.ch/update/circuits/zeltweg.php

Would it be possible to post up the number of laps for each race this season now. I thought this was going to be set to long (16 laps) and and not 24 laps. My misunderstanding but it might help?

I posted the number of laps.

An Int Long race came up as 24 for me which will make it about 45 minutes. 16 laps would be lass than half an hour.

Came up as 16 for me?

I think Ronnie means if you could post the number of laps of all races in the season, so one can check it up in advance, before each race announcement. Good idea.

I had the same issue as Ronnie last season, I think it is related to the Zeltweg install not having the correct number of laps.

Novice races are usually 40-45 minutes so you can work out the rough number of laps from that. Alternatively if the race thread comes out, say, a week before the event that should give us time to prepare on full tanks.

Yes, but the problem with that is when new threads push down older ones, even if they're for events that haven't run yet. I wish it was possible to somehow keep race event threads sorted in chronological order of the race calendar.

Well that was just HORRID ... had far too much oversteer in the early laps and binned the car twice.. own fault... :(
T1 - sorry to Nigel for causing you to explode like that - i pulled over on you without realising you were there whilst trying to avoid another Honda, this one mid-way through a Webber :D

Also, sorry to which ever waza i ploughed into at T1 a few laps later - you were spinning and i didnt know where to go to miss you so i drove into your side instead.  :D

Have to agree - avoided the carnage and was running seventh when I got collected - couldn't Shift-R cos of all the cars coming my way... dead last and pretty much stayed there. Caught Karliss up and he discoed shortly after but apart from that it was a lonely race. Managed to let everyone except Nigel by without incident. Took Nige out after I lost control coming through that little kink before the finishing turn. So I'll probably get some more penalty points. My wheel was upshifting in the corners by itself so I had to be very careful. The micro switch must be dodgy - might have to use Auto gears - yuck. :'(

I was hopeful of running a 1:57 average but I was over 2:00 I think. Very disappointed.

Can those that passed me tell me whether I was OK or not - I tried to get out of the way in reasonable time. Hope I didn't cost anyone too much. TIA for any feedback.

Looking forward to Zandvoort already - I REALLY suck there so there should be plenty of points available - sadly only of the penalty variety :(

I have a different take to the rest of you - you plan where to overtake - I plan where to get overtaken without compromising your race - its much harder  ;D

Poor qually again but a fantastic race (fun wise).

Ross, Rog and Me were running closely for a good few laps and I was sitting back a little ready to pounce when they both slid off which they annoyingly refused to do. Ronnie started to catch me and the 3 way battle was slowing us down so I turned up the wick a little and passed Rog and Ross into 3rd where I stayed for most of the race but I didn't have the guts in the Cooper to pull away. Eventually having thrashed the Cooper for so long I brushed a wall and Ross was right behind me then picked up a tow and passed me on the straight.

A lap later Ronnie's Lotus breezed by on the same straight and there was nothing I could do about it.

A late and consistent charge from Fabio was about to put me under pressure but luckily the flag dropped first.

Great fun race and the Cooper is fun to drive but I just wish it had a little more guts.

Anyway, back to serious matters.

The submit report link is now available at the top of the thread so please use it to submit your incident reports and attach replays if necessary. It really does affect the way incidents are modded if we have 2 replays of the same incident to look at.

Not sure if it was me, or my computer that got out of bed, the wrong side this morning, but something wasn't right.  I ended up, retiring to the pits before half distance, simply to remove my body from harms way!  ???

I may need to start ritually disassembling input devices, prior to each round, (worked last time!) unless its the old racing brain which needs disassembly, Think I'll start by turning the bed around . . . probably less painful!

Watched much of the race from the pit lane.  Art was amazing, as he romped into the distance, with Norman being the best of the rest.  A good battle for third towards the finish, with power pulling through in the end.  A big well done to newcomer, (ahem) Mike for being the first Cooper home, and showing some of us back markers how it's done. :'(

I seem to have been about the only layabout about!

Wish you'd retired before the end of lap 1 - I might have finished lap 1 in the pack!  ;D  Not that I would have stayed there. You should have waited for me and enjoyed passing me again and again  ::) It was lonely out there.

BTW I was REALLY pleased with my qually lap - bit disappointed that it put me last again <sigh> We inhabit slightly different worlds. Never thought I would be the Bruno Senna of Online :(

I rate Bruno higher than half the current F1 grid, it's just his car that's crap.

half ... thats quite a lot of drivers , would you care to say what drivers are worse than bruno?

john

p.s higher than half is above average so you have to name 50% of the drivers that are in f1 atm

I'd rather not continue this here, but I'll send you a PM.

As Mike already said, this one was an absolute corker in terms of racing. A big hand to Norm, Mike, Rog and Ronnie, all of whom I battled with at some point. However, my race speed was pretty poor as a result of all the scrapping and the top two just roared off into the distance. Thought I'd secured third but then Ronnie flew past with a couple of laps left and I decided to bank the points for 4th rather than risk it all late on.

Well done to Artiglietti who blew everyone away here, and didn't make any mistakes in the race. But we will put more pressure on you at Zandy in two weeks ;)

My first error free race in GPL. I'm very pleased with that, only problam was that I was slow.

Qual was much better than I expected, with my fastest lap of this circuit, and all times were blue. Couldn't hope to beat it so I didn't try. If anything I was too quick, as when I looked at the grid we were all fairly close from 3rd downwards and I knew that after one of my trade makred spins I would be at the back of the pack anyway.

Started OK, overtook Fabio (I think) who didn't get away from the grid well, but I was overtaken by a rocket who I think was rog. We all got around teh first corner, and I tucked in behind rog down the long staright, braked a little early for turn 2 and go hit from behind. I haven't looked at my reply yet so I don't know what went wrong.
I did a Shift&R and was pretty much last, next corner was a real mess, with cars all over the track, I slowed down and zig zaged my way and got under way again. I was in 8th at the end of lap 1. Norbert was in front and Nigel Smith was behind, I tried to calm myself into a rhythm. Norbert had a spin which let me past, but I was watching Nigel catch me up slowly put surely. I always had one eye on prib to find out were Nigel was, Fabio few past us all at one point but it was mainly just me watching Nigel catch me up slowly.

With a few laps to go Nigel was in sight of my mirrors and I could hear his engine, I was getting ready to defend my line and planning were I was going to brake. At that moment I lost the sound of his engine, a quick look at prib told me he was dropping back quickly, so I can only assume that he had a spin. With a few laps to go I turned down the wick and cruised to teh finish line.

Second race in a row that Nigel has been hunting me down and I've been nervously looking at my mirrors waiting for his attack. Thank you for some good racing.

Looking forward to next Zandervoot, I've always been slow there so I'm hoping for anothe error free run and see where that puts me.

Oh yes  ;D ;D ;D ;D!!  :punk: :punk: :punk: :jumpjoy: :jumpjoy: :jumpjoy:

I really wanted to get at least a win this season, so very happy it happened so soon.

Clinched pole by the skin of my teeth, I set a quick time right away (had been practising for the previous half an hour...), but then NH started to shave his times bit by bit, at some stage I had 0.01 secs on him! So, luck on my side this time, no complaints!

Had a good start, but duly almost dropped it at T2, only just managing to stay off the grass and use the lotus power to recover down the straight. Was pulling away slowly slowly for the first 3 laps, then you all disappeared! Replay unveiled the mystery, Ross trying a new line at turn 3 and NH along with some others stopping by to have a look... :D; that let me off the hook, I think I had 10 or 15 secs by lap 5, so from then on it was just a case of bringing it home without doing anything silly. Which can be a challenge in itself though...

I had a couple of coming across slower Hondas recovering from spins, but we all have been made more cautious by Mosport clashes and mods sticks ;), so everything went very smoothly.

So, lonely and vaguely surreal at times, had to talk to myself loudly a couple of times to keep me awake down the long straights. And very much helped by the early clash behind me. But still, a win is a win, and this is the first one!! :-*

Also, it has to be a well done to the guys battling behind me. I watched you in the replay, that was awesome, loved those pass and counter pass moves at turn 1! I would have certainly found a way to bin it sooner rather than later, so glad I was able to pull away and stay out of trouble this time!

Looking forward to Zandvoort, although thats a tight track, hope to keep all my wheels on till the end of the race there.. :laugh:

AA

I wouldn't get too upset - you're competing against a fast crowd!  I expect it's only the top 10 percent of racers, who ever make it online.  By jousting with the front runners, albeit briefly, you'll continue to improve.  The bad news is, you're not fast enough to be judged as a proper layabout yet, when having an off day.  The good news is, you will be, fast enough, after some more races.  And the bad news is, you could then become a confirmed layabout.
 

First an appology as in a desperate attempt for pole with 7 minutes left I put 3 laps of fuel in & pulled out of the pits a bit hasty just as AA was passing. Hope it didn't put you off too much as I noticed you went off after turn 1, sorry.

First 5 laps were mayhem but by that time AA had gone so any thoughts I had of mounting a challenge went with him. He so very nearly went off twice in the first lap I thought it was my lucky day (AT LAST!), but no. After I got away from the crowd it was a cruise to the end for 19 laps protecting the engine as I had one blow on my 2nd qually timed lap.

Looking at the replay I see that RP hit me as I spun when trying to adjust the line when Ross hit the wall. Didn't remember that after the race. How that will be treated I don't know.

We're all off to the seaside next & phsycic Norm profisies that it will all be much closer & the experienced Cooper drivers will show what they can do. Personally my PB in a BT11 is only ½ second faster than my Cooper PB so think what they'll be like!.

Norm H

p.s. Is AA the new Al Heller? i.e. totally dominant in novs racing (season 18) first part of the season.  I bl**dy hope not. Take heart remember Goran arrived. ;D

:D Those first races surprised me more than anyone Norm! When I joined Novs midway through season 17 I was reasonably quick but certainly not dominant - however season 18 saw Clutch, Mike & James Rye all move up to Am's, which coupled with some heavy practising by me during the off-season moved me right up the order. I'd only done a handful of online races then so I still maintain that my consistency was the key in s18 anyway - if you look at my times they were never that much quicker than the rest of the field.

Congratulations to AA for the debut win - very impressive qually times from both of you so I have no doubt the luck will go your way soon Norm ;)

Hope I didn't embarrass you Al. It was meant in fun to make myself & everyone realise it's early days yet.
I always remember that being a really good season.

Clutch has given me permission to remove my Muppet of Mosport badge now even though the Mods report ain't out yet.

Norm H 

Yes it is. Has been for a while.

Getting caught up in the early ruck put paid to any chance of scrapping with the leading two but hey what a battle for third. Great race with Mike and Ross I think and yes the power of the lotus in the final stages really helped me. Congrats to the top two Artiglietti and Nhance. I will look a the replay soon to submit as requested any mayhem I was involved in. Lap 2 or 3 I know I hit someone who spun immediately in front of me and then on recovering myself was struck by someone joining the mayhem. If that was you Nhance that spun into my path early on I hope its looked on favourably by the moderators. And apologies in advance to the driver/s behind for being a mobile barrier as you got past/through me.

More importantly message to BadBlood. You were fine in traffic everytime our paths crossed and get that wheel/gear shift fixed (early Xmas present for yourself maybe?). Don't even think about auto gears unless you want to know the true meaning of SLOW.

See you all at Zandvort.

Yeah I know Mike I meant for Zeltweg he was anticipating my points are secure at Zeltweg.

Yes RP it was me who spun in front of you. Sorry about that. When I saw the replay I was relieved you recovered for a good finish & well done by the way & also to AA I forgot to say that above. Forgetting to congratulate my rivals, self obsession with my own performance, I'm turning into a proper formula 1 driver  ;).

Norm H

Well, yesterday I felt as Valentino Rossi....

In qualify I set the third time on the grid, really not so bad with a default setup...

At race start I really did really bad ("braccino" I would say...) and everybody seemed able to pass me...

Then, on Dr. Tiroch corner, there was a contact between me and Alistair (I think)...

I didn't check the replay, so I'm really not able to say if it was my fault or not: I only remember he went wide on the corner and I tried to pass him on the inside.
Let's wait the moderator's review...

S+r, Stop'n'Go and I was back on track on 13th place: from that moment on it was hard but fun, and I ended my race at 6th place, setting the 2nd FL

Long Live GPL, Long Live UKGPL!!

See you all on the Dutch sands

Fabio, I saw you come out after that SnG and you just ZOOMED away - it was just cruel! Sob.

Enjoying it though even if my race happens in a parallel universe to the rest of you.

BB - when I was looking at the server replay from Mosport I noticed you're changing up at 11000rpm.
Is there a reason you're doing this? Only the Honda will go much better if you take it to 12000rpm before changing.
12500 is my normal max (only for short periods, i.e. low gears) and I'll rarely go above unless in the closing stages and fighting for position  :)

That will help gain you some speed  8)

Just beware of over-revving or it WILL explode  ;D

Thanks for that Tim - I read somewhere you had to keep revs between 9 and 11 - i'll try it out.

Early outings have been less than a second slower in the Cooper and I will probably get to a similar time, but I haven't driven Zandvoort in 65s since season 18 so my Lotus time might not be that great anyway.

In the Cooper I'm actually faster in the first sector but overall the car feels good though,

The slowest time for the last novice outing at Zaandvoort is 1:35.4 - I can do 1:37.3 so stop whingeing about 1/2 a second here or there or whether you have a Cooper or a Lotus - I only think it fair for you lot to give me a lap start - otherwise I am never going to get a race... <sigh> <sigh again>

Bad Blood - If you think you could blow an engine its not always over revving. Look at the postings for season 19 Mosport.

Some Novices had been blowing engines, not just at Mosport & Evil Clive put a posting on this race with at least one common reason why this can happen & how to avoid it. Apparantly he learnt this the hard way but passed it on to us free of charge. Its a good tip - worth a read.

Norm H

Thanks Norm. TBH I wasn't worried about blowing an engine - just read somewhere that the torque was 90% if the revs were between 9 and 11,000. Mind you Torque could be 120% and I would still be driving it like a milk float :(

That's only the case with the 67 Honda, the 65 beast can go up to 13k on overrun.

Ah - my mistake. Thanks. The thing I am really struggling with is carrying speed through the corners - if I go in too fast I just spin so follow the mantra slow in fast out - understood but I am having to go so slow that it compromises my exit speed. I'm still driving it like a road car - I am finding it really hard to drive it 'on the edge' and carry the speed.
At Zeltweg, I practised a lot (for me) and I set a PB in qually - tried to drive within myself during the race to race myself but my best was 1:58+ - v. disappointed with myself - I was really concerned with keeping out of the way of the leaders and I STILL took somebody out - tried to brake a bit hard to let Nigel through. Wheel upshifted and I slid into him. Hoping I wont get a penalty but I probably will. At this rate I'll be banned :(
How many penalty points constitutes a ban?
On a brighter note, I seem to have fixed my wheel with some percussive maintenance  ;D Enabled me to set a PB at Zandvoort only 10 secs off pole.  ??? I may not even race this one if I can't get to 107% - i.e 1:35.9 or so going by who is racing novices and results from season 18  :'(

By driving it like a road car you mean you're controlling it more with the steering wheel than with the pedals? To carry speed into corners you really need to practice and focus on using the steering wheel only to set the initial direction by turning-in once, then 99% of the job is done with the pedals.

Trail-braking is the key on entry, so you can keep decelerating while turning-in. You need to turn-in earlier than what you probably do now, so the car can drift as it decelerates. Then you have to recognize the moment when it's about to grip and stop drifting, and continue the drift with the throttle, towards the apex.

Until you can do these techniques it's pointless to look after lap times and drive consistently. You need a change in habits and technique, nothing else, so practice hard on that. It's probably going to take weeks of hard work, but there's no other way. You have to forget about anything else such as comparing lap times to others, those things come naturally as a consequence when you improve your driving techniques.

Thanks for that H. I will try and be a worthy Waza.  :angel: Tough though.  ;)

As long as you wish for it, it only takes hard work. It depends what you really want, but know that there's no pressure from Waza on performance - it's all up to you. Just remember when you start winning - ALL YOUR VICTORIES ARE BELONG TO HER!!!  ;D

That might be more relevant for the 67 Honda!!!


If you can get on to the practice server in the next few days and we happen to meet up, I will ride "in car" with you and maybe give a few pointers. Meanwhile try reading ( and maybe even understand ::) ) this https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=8557.msg151511;boardseen#new  description of a lap as I would drive it in the Cooper. I make no claim to it being the perfect lap or the ultimate line etc but it might just show you where you can shave a few seconds.

Thanks Clive - away with the mini bloods until Sunday evening but I hope to catch up with you shortly after.

Race Mod published.

Some good bits, some bad bits.

I would ask that all drivers read it and not just the Novices as it has some important points to bear in mind.

Great moderation, Mike. I totally agree on your points about weaving, as long as it's separated from defensive driving (which depends on how close the car behind is).

I would like to point out something about driving the center line though. As long as the car doesn't weave to block and keeps the center line, it shouldn't be a big issue. I would call it defensive driving. Imagine in particular someone doing it in the final laps in battle for the win (or any position really), I think it's reasonable that they should be allowed to drive more defensively if someone threatens them from behind and holding a center line is one way to do it (remember Monaco 92 last 2 laps, Senna vs. Mansell).

Phew - relieved not to have picked up any more penalty points! Nigel must have been kind to me. Luckily I didn't ruin his race and the Stop and Go enabled me to let a few more past safely  ::). As for taking the free Stop and Go at the start - I thought I'd got away with it but my gear selector wasn't working properly so that by the time I Shift-R'ed I got 'Track is not clear'. Dead last - end of race.

Practiced hard for that one and got within four seconds of pole and then drove appallingly.

The thing I am finding hardest (apart from the driving, obviously) is the level of concentration required. If I practice, I do four or five laps at most. Largely due to time constraints but the race is hard. Witness my performance in the Ring where I was aiming for 11 mins (I know - don't laugh) and I did 12:09 twice :( When I crashed it was at an innocuous bit of the circuit purely down to lack of focus. Mind you my laptop display turning off twice didn't help!

Great moderation and sorry again to anyone (Nhance/Mike) who I might have hit or impeded when I was setting off again. See you tonight.

I seem to have a book shaped dent in my head this morning :)

Apologies to Rog for the blocking, at the time I thought I was pushing the limit but after watching the replay it's clear that I was well over it.

I promise to behave myself this evening at Zandvoort - see you all then.

Now now - don't make promises you don't intend to keep...  ;D