SimRacing.org.uk

UKGPL => UKGPL Races => Topic started by: vosblod on November 01, 2010, 12:59:38 PM +0000



Title: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: vosblod on November 01, 2010, 12:59:38 PM +0000
And so we move to the Green Hell to sort the men from the boys. Anyone spotted the password theme yet? 50 free tokens to the first correct answer (to be applied in Season 263)

Subject to a viable number of entrants we are running two separate grids for Works and Privateers drivers this season. The Works will run on PRO Damage and Privateers will run on Intermediate Damage with the allowance of ONE shift-R reset. No Shift-Rs are allowed in practice unless authorized by the moderator. A Shift-R (fault or not) MUST be followed by a Stop & Go. A Shift-R for tyres/fuel is not allowed. Any driver taking more then ONE Shift-R OR failing to take a Stop & Go will be disqualified from the race result.

Race List = IGOR
Server(s);
Works = UKGPL_5
IP address = ping myjamesonline.net
Privateers = UKGPL_T7_2
IP address = 62.149.202.168
Race date = 07-11-2010
Time = 21:00 UK time
Track = Nurburgring
Variant = 67F1
Damage Model = Works; PRO / Privateers; INT
Qualifying time = 35 minutes. Don't start until 30 mins left on clock to allow everyone to join.
Race length = 50 minutes (laps 7)
Password: see above (#post_event_password)

Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R;group=277;theme=6)
The track can be downloaded from : original papy track
Add-on’s available at : http://srmz.net/index.php?showtopic=523 (http://srmz.net/index.php?showtopic=523)

Please be in IGOR UKGPL chatroom by 8:50 pm UK Time

Reserve drivers should not join the server(s) until there are only 30 minutes of qualifying left. Please restrict chat to pit messages. Moderating will be by reported incidents only, however the moderators reserve the right to review any incident with a particular emphasis on lap one. The aim is to review the race the following weekend so incident reports should be submitted within five days of the race (ie the following Friday). We're hopeful most incidents can be resolved amicably and recommend a days deep breath with a replay review before posting. A sorry in the forum won't be taken as an automatic admission of guilt by the moderators.
The Works will run on PRO Damage and Privateers will run on Intermediate Damage with the allowance of ONE shift-R reset. No Shift-Rs are allowed in practice unless authorized by the moderator. A Shift-R (fault or not) MUST be followed by a Stop & Go. A Shift-R for tyres/fuel is not allowed. Any driver taking more then ONE Shift-R OR failing to take a Stop & Go will be disqualified from the race result.

With the token system chassis strategy will be a factor. A driver must have sufficient tokens for the chassis he drives in the race.  Any driver who does not have sufficient tokens will be disqualified from the result and his tokens will be set to zero.

Chassis costs;
Lotus 20 / Eagle 17 / Ferrari 15 / Brabham 10 / Cooper 5 / Honda 3 / BRM 0

To see your current tokens hover your mouse over your total points on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R;group=277;theme=6). Ten tokens will be added when you cross the start line.

The Championship is split into two sub-divisions, namely Works and Privateers. The driver split will be;

WORKS drivers
Kinghiro (R)     
Evil Clive   
Hristo   
Tim FMG   
Steve Bird       
John Roberts 
Al Heller   
Vosblod   
Jethro   
Sam B   
Bartosz (Pod)   
Baab (R)   
Beefpie (R)   
Rick N (R)   
JHalli (R)   
Fulvio P (R)   
Tommie van O (R)   
EasternSun (R)   
   
   
   

PRIVATEERS drivers
Bernie     
Burtoner   
Mike Turner   
Billy Nobrakes   
Bookie W     
Nigel Smith   
Fabio (Il Lupo)   
Ronnie Peterson       
Paul Badblood   
Martin Maddog (R)   
Ross Gilles27 (R)   
Hannah (R)   
Nicky I (R)   
Happy Al (R)   
  D-Rock (R) 
   
   
   

EasternSun (R) - sub-division to be decided upon

67 Patch: The 1.3 Release of the 67mod can be used.

NOTE: Please ensure you join the correct server, due to the way we import if you start the race on the wrong server your result will not count.

The Nürburgring is a motorsport complex around the village of Nürburg, Germany. It features a modern Grand Prix race track built in 1984, and a much longer old North loop track which was built in the 1920s around the village and medieval castle of Nürburg in the Eifel mountains. The old track, which we are using, was nicknamed The Green Hell by Jackie Stewart and is widely considered the toughest, most dangerous, and most demanding purpose-built racing circuit in the world.
In the early 1920s ADAC Eifelrennen races were held on public roads in the Eifel mountains. Soon this was considered impractical and dangerous. In order to provide work and lure tourists into the area, the construction of a dedicated race track was proposed. The track was completed in spring of 1927, and the first German Grand Prix was held there in July. In 1939 the full Ring was used for the last time in major racing events, as future Grands Prix would be held only on the Nordschleife. After World War II, racing recommenced in the 1950s and the Nordschleife of the Nürburgring again became the main venue for the German Grand Prix. By the late 1960s, the Nordschleife and many other tracks were considered increasingly dangerous for F1 cars. In 1967, a chicane was added before the start/finish straight. Various changes were made in the following years until, following Niki Lauda's crash in 1976, use of the old ring in formula one ceased for good.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: vosblod on November 01, 2010, 08:17:26 PM +0000
Someone has raised the question of what to do, in Privateers, if they take their Shift/R on the last lap. The normal guideline is here (https://www.ukgpl.com/index.php/rules/sporting);
A S&G must be taken within 2 laps of the Shift-R
You will see reference is also made specifically to Nurburgring iro Shift/R's in practice.

2 issues;
1) For this specific track Privateers ARE allowed to take a Shift/R in practice and complete their lap.
2) Due to the nature of the track if you are unable to take a Stop and Go due to being on the last lap a time penalty of 20 seconds will be applied (normally 30) rather then a race disqualification. This only applies for this specific race and only if you take your one allowable Shift/R on the 7th (final) lap.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: Turkey Machine on November 02, 2010, 11:09:10 AM +0000
I'm so dead at this place.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: Tom van Ostade on November 02, 2010, 01:02:13 PM +0000
Watch how the pro's do it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6aNnZ4q80s

It's Hubert Hahne in the Formula 2 Lola T100 powered by an upgraded 2000 cc BMW engine so he had more chance in the Formula 1 class where he was entered. He is followed by a Formula Vee driver who is driving his balls off trying to keep up, while Hahne is taking it easy ;D .

Lotus endeavours from Nine Days in Summer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5hSVxhhffs

Hulme in the BT24 Brabham and Hahne in the BMW Lola get the most air at Flugplatz (meaning something like 'takeoff' in German). See if you can spot Ickx in the pukka F2 Matra who ended up having a great dice with Surtees and Amon before retiring!

And the summary of the race, with some exposure for Ickx, who may have gotten second overall if he hadn't retired! He landed a Cooper works drive at Monza because of it, and a seat at Ferrari for 1968.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAV6eQQ5TLY

Tom.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: Nigel Smith on November 03, 2010, 10:29:07 AM +0000
OK, I get it , ONE  'shift r', all right, enough already .Maybe not aimed at me personally, but I feel the pain.
Looking forward to this one, a lot.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: happyal on November 03, 2010, 11:23:51 AM +0000
1) For this specific track Privateers ARE allowed to take a Shift/R in practice and complete their lap.

Can we take as many Shift&R's as needed, or only 1 in pratice?


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: FullMetalGasket on November 03, 2010, 11:33:37 AM +0000
I would image it's unlimited in practice to ensure you get a time!  :)

Could make works tricky though if I can't restrain myself for a 'safe' run before going for it  ;D


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: vosblod on November 03, 2010, 11:52:39 AM +0000
1) For this specific track Privateers ARE allowed to take a Shift/R in practice and complete their lap.
Can we take as many Shift&R's as needed, or only 1 in pratice?
How many are you planning on LOL
I'm not going to say only one in Practice, it's not the easiest track, but please take care to make sure there is no risk of you resetting in front of someone else doing a flying lap.
For the race one reset only with a compulsory S&G as usual, subject to the slight alteration above.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: happyal on November 03, 2010, 02:49:40 PM +0000
I'm planning none (yeah right) but I just want to be sure.

In my pratice I haven't made it around yet without a reset, I've got the feeling it's going to be a short race for me.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: Hristo Itchov on November 03, 2010, 04:27:08 PM +0000
Could make works tricky though if I can't restrain myself for a 'safe' run before going for it  ;D

I always tell myself I'll do a safe run, but then ignore my own decision and sometimes pay for that, lol.  ::)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: FullMetalGasket on November 03, 2010, 05:26:42 PM +0000
I crashed 3 times at Brno before I finally calmed down enough to do a 'safe' one  ;D


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: Phil Thornton on November 03, 2010, 09:59:37 PM +0000
Evil

Just noticed, if you make this it will be your 281st UKGPL race equalling me at the top of the standings (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=64&theme=6&stats=Top+25+drivers+by+participation).  The only record I've ever held in UKGPL! LOL.  Looks like you and Hristo will crack the 300 barrier this season ;D.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: vosblod on November 04, 2010, 01:34:14 AM +0000
The only record I've ever held in UKGPL! LOL. 
How about most posts at UKGPL  ;D Mind you that doesn't count the old forum


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: BadBlood on November 04, 2010, 09:48:44 AM +0000
This only applies for this specific race and only if you take your one allowable Shift/R on the 7th (final) lap.

Tim - which is it? The 7th lap only or my final lap?  ;D


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: vosblod on November 04, 2010, 02:22:27 PM +0000
This only applies for this specific race and only if you take your one allowable Shift/R on the 7th (final) lap.
Tim - which is it? The 7th lap only or my final lap?  ;D
Hopefully they will be the same thing  ;)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: Phil Thornton on November 04, 2010, 10:47:06 PM +0000
How about most posts at UKGPL  ;D Mind you that doesn't count the old forum
oh yes there is that but you are rapidly closing in ;)  (BTW, you're doing a great job as Chief Mod Tim, UKGPL couldn't be in better hands :thumbup2:)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: EvilClive on November 05, 2010, 08:18:29 AM +0000
Evil

Just noticed, if you make this it will be your 281st UKGPL race equalling me at the top of the standings (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=64&theme=6&stats=Top+25+drivers+by+participation).  The only record I've ever held in UKGPL! LOL.  Looks like you and Hristo will crack the 300 barrier this season ;D.

LOL  I have not looked at that stat in the past couple of years :o  But i would have expected Hristo to be way ahead???!! Its a shame that races run does not equate to races won lol. but I sure have had a lot of fun over the years.  ;D

If you had asked, I would have thought that there were dozens ahead ( if that's the right word  ::) ) of me in this. But, upon reflection a lot of the names that were in UKGPL when I started, have moved on except for maybe Hristo, Bernie and yourself Phil. Geez!!! that makes me feel old(er) :-\


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: Hristo Itchov on November 05, 2010, 08:41:09 AM +0000
Considering how many races I missed due to forgetting about them, I could've been past the 300 mark by now, lol. Yeah, Evil, it makes you feel odd. I started at UKGPL only when it was in its 12th or 13th season, but I guess older members quit by that time.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: BadBlood on November 05, 2010, 11:04:38 AM +0000
This only applies for this specific race and only if you take your one allowable Shift/R on the 7th (final) lap.
Tim - which is it? The 7th lap only or my final lap?  ;D
Hopefully they will be the same thing  ;)

If I get to 5 I'll be ecstatic...  ::)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: Phil Thornton on November 05, 2010, 06:01:28 PM +0000
upon reflection a lot of the names that were in UKGPL when I started, have moved on except for maybe Hristo, Bernie and yourself Phil.
Yes but events entered is only part of the story.  If you look at the driver's stats Hristo has 114 wins, you have 30, Bernie has 5 and I only have 3.  So on that score we are all a long long way behind H :scooter:


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: EvilClive on November 05, 2010, 06:33:09 PM +0000
"So on that score we are all a long long way behind H".........................That is a very depressing statistic Phil :-\


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: bernie on November 05, 2010, 08:01:15 PM +0000
Even more when you dial in the handicap , think there's a good case for some amputation here  ;D


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: Nigel Smith on November 06, 2010, 09:21:09 AM +0000
It would have to be a beheading Bernie, 'cos thats where most of H's 'winningness' lies.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: bernie on November 06, 2010, 12:11:52 PM +0000
Hmmmm ! not sure if that would suffice , better chop all four limbs off to,  just to make sure  ;D


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: Hristo Itchov on November 06, 2010, 02:12:23 PM +0000
It seems I may not live to see race #300...  ::)  ;D


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: Turkey Machine on November 06, 2010, 03:11:27 PM +0000
I may not live to see T1 at this rate. Car's horrible to drive, I cannot get any traction and turning it is impossible.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: Hristo Itchov on November 06, 2010, 03:29:41 PM +0000
I may not live to see T1 at this rate. Car's horrible to drive, I cannot get any traction and turning it is impossible.

Slow down until it's possible to drive and turns in.  ;) You and Evil are masters of overdriving, but somehow  he manages to get away with it.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: jhalli on November 07, 2010, 10:18:14 PM +0000
hi!

well, that was warping hell this time, not green hell, Hristo finally pushed me to upside down and my race was over that was massive warping both of us.

i hope to rerun this event


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: Hristo Itchov on November 08, 2010, 07:47:37 AM +0000
Sorry Juha, I just lost it under braking when my front left wheel touched the grass there. But anyway, this was terrible, everyone was warping pretty badly and it was impossible to get close to anyone and stay there. I also hope for a rerun, not because of my result, but because it wasn't what one would call a proper race.

Similar thing happened to the Imola Spec race #1 and it turned out to be wrong bandwidth settings, so I hope the reason could be found and removed. Maybe related to 60fps patch as well, did anyone forget to turn it off before joining the server?

My ping was between 230-260, but the lag of the cars looked more like it was at least 600-700, as if someone was downloading something through the server's connection.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: Michael Turner on November 08, 2010, 08:42:51 AM +0000
I never do well at the Nurburgring so decided to save my precious tokens by calling into service an old bathtub. As usual it was a case of racing the track rather than other drivers but for once I managed to be amongst the handful to complete the race without major drama or technical problems.

Congrats to Bernie on his fine win for the Soggies.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: Podkrecony_Ziutek on November 08, 2010, 08:43:37 AM +0000
I don't think that this race should be rerun. We had races witch worst warps and we didn't rerun race. For me only serious reason to rerun a race is massive disco, or something what happened at riverside.

I just need to remind that we all had the same conditions, and rerun this race would be unfair to the guys that finished it.

As for my race. I'm sick and I wasn't able to race yesterday. I've joined server just for tokens. I've tried to stay on track, but I just couldn't concentrate enough and I've spun in quite silly place. That spun cost me a wheel and whole race.

Tough luck, hope to do better in Mexico ;)



Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: Hristo Itchov on November 08, 2010, 08:59:36 AM +0000
It's different, Pod. It's one thing for someone to have bad warp due to their own end of the connection and quite another for the server end to cause troubles for everyone, which was the case here. When you say race rerun, this wasn't even a race under these circumstances. No one could really race anyone.

I don't remember such problem except the Imola Spec race, definitely not in the last couple of seasons, so it's quite an exceptional situation.

You're right that it may not be fair to those who finished, but given the high element of luck involved with this lag, is it really fair to those who didn't finish? Championships should not be decided like this.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: Samb on November 08, 2010, 10:22:47 AM +0000
Same old story for me. Qualified around the back after completing a slow lap, and crashing on the faster lap  ::). Made a great start though passing a few cars though the warp made things a little scary, but luckily I made it through unscathed. For the next half of the lap i had H catch me at a blistering rate and let him pass me given that I was finding it hard enough to keep the car on the straight and narrow.

Soon after, I lost control and the same place in quali and lost a wheel  :'(. More than annoyed at myself, I completed the lap with 3 wheels but eventually beached myself on the second lap. Pretty much sums up my driving of late. I've got to find the time to practice like before.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: BadBlood on November 08, 2010, 10:44:19 AM +0000
I never do well at the Nurburgring so decided to save my precious tokens by calling into service an old bathtub. As usual it was a case of racing the track rather than other drivers but for once I managed to be amongst the handful to complete the race without major drama or technical problems.

Congrats to Bernie on his fine win for the Soggies.

Decided to take it nice and steady to finish rather than compete - managed to catch Michael at the end of the first lap (even though he is MUCH quicker than me and then got excited and tried to race - fatal. One Shift-R later tried to calm down and lost it before I could take my stop and go :(


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: bernie on November 08, 2010, 11:17:58 AM +0000
Quote
Congrats to Bernie on his fine win for the Soggies.

Shhhhhhhhhhht!

I was trying to keep it quiet so you dont all gang up on me for the next race  :)




Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: BadBlood on November 08, 2010, 11:51:33 AM +0000
Too late for that  :laugh:


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: maddog on November 08, 2010, 12:46:52 PM +0000
I'd sorted a fast setup for the Ferrari, and practice saw me snag an easy Privateers pole.  So the race would be a matter of how slowly I could drive.  

The hedges had elluded me throughout off-line practice, but in the race, one snagged my Ferrari on the first lap, deviously.  So I called in at the pits in third.  Second, after the demise of Ronnies impressive Honda.  Then, with a couple of blind apexes missed, I knocked a wheel loose, and valiantly soldiered on in a car that was no longer sure, of what straights were for! ???

Another 2 laps in a shaky second, and the hedges struck again - inevitably, this time it was race over.  I could only watch, as Bernies Brabham sailed on to a majestic win.  It wasn't until I was out of the car, that I noticed another snag . . . I'd been driving car no.13.  Seems to me, the regulations should allow for a re-run, when this happens.  Grumble!  


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: happyal on November 08, 2010, 02:17:07 PM +0000
Not a great race for me, but I didn't think it would be. I just didn't get enough pratice in for this race, so that ment I still wasn't 100% sure of the track.

In Qual I did OK, kept it out of the hedges and did some nice laps. The race was a different matter, I was hopeless. A slow horrible spin put me into the hedge about half way around, I was stuck in the hedge so I had to do a Shift & R, got back into the race, and was slowly catching Billy and Turn (I think), but a silly mistake knocked a wheel off on a wall. It was race over for me, and I didn't even manage a single lap.

Still, I enjoyed the track, so looking forward to this one again next year. Well done to all who did well.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: Billy Nobrakes on November 08, 2010, 02:35:03 PM +0000
After being nudged of track in turn 3 of the first lap & taking my one lifeline (Shift R) I had no expectation of a finish & was, therefore, a major surprise to see the chequered flag after 7 laps! I managed to adapt to survival mode driving – about 30 seconds a lap off my PB but it got there in the end.
Congratulations to:
Bernie – whose winning performance made the Ring look easy.
Hannah – mighty improvement since last season for 2nd place.
Michael T for finishing in the Bathtub. I spent a frustrating evening trying the BRM but it’s an absolute pig. Sorry for the tap on lap 1 Mike – your BRM was a lot slower than I expected out of some of the turns.
One thing I haven’t worked out is where the pits are. For some reason I decided they were part of the tower block that looks like air-traffic control. I did an untidy stop & go there and also at the building next to the S/F line – but didn’t see a pit board. Suspect a time penalty is due but I’ll let the Mods sort that.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: BadBlood on November 08, 2010, 02:45:39 PM +0000
I knocked a wheel loose, and valiantly soldiered on in a car that was no longer sure, of what straights were for! ???

Another 2 laps in a shaky second, and the hedges struck again

GREAT - I can't even catch 'em when they have three wheels  >:(


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: Podkrecony_Ziutek on November 08, 2010, 04:11:30 PM +0000
It's different, Pod. It's one thing for someone to have bad warp due to their own end of the connection and quite another for the server end to cause troubles for everyone, which was the case here. When you say race rerun, this wasn't even a race under these circumstances. No one could really race anyone.

This kind of situation in a part of on line racing. Yesterday we all had the same problem and we should adapt to this situation and be more carefoul. I know how annoying is to be stuck behind warping driver, but this is the nature of on line racing.

You're right that it may not be fair to those who finished, but given the high element of luck involved with this lag, is it really fair to those who didn't finish? Championships should not be decided like this.

There's a few guys that have adapt to bad conditions or just had some luck witch allowed them to finish the race. Others(like me) didn't have that so they crashed. For me it's just like in real life. If you can't adapt to current conditions then you won't finish the race. Same thing with luck, if you're lucky then nobody will crash into you, but if you're unlucky well sorry ;)

In this race there has been no massive disco, so I just don't see reason to rerun it. but It might be good idea to wait for Tim's decision.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: Billy Nobrakes on November 08, 2010, 04:27:51 PM +0000
Just remembered, qualification started about three quarters way round the track. Was that the same for everybody? I’m sure it was the pit lane last year. (BTW that’s my other excuse for not knowing where the pit lane is).


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: maddog on November 08, 2010, 05:03:09 PM +0000
At least that was probably no accident Billy.  The idea of a pit out, late in the lap, is to avoid wasting an entire circuit, before starting a hot lap.  All the Privateers must've been that way.  :)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: Turkey Machine on November 08, 2010, 07:41:30 PM +0000
The qualifying for Works was "complete the whole lap", which made qualifying rather interesting and contributed to several people not setting a lap.

I managed to start the lap about 2 minutes before the flag fell, which left me last man standing and all eyes on the leery Honda. I managed an 8:29, some 25 seconds off Tom's excellent pole time.

Lag was a massive factor in both qualifying and the race, there were times when I wasn't sure I'd complete the qualifying lap because of it, it was so high. Eventually it settled but by race start it was clear I'd have to take it super easy.

T1 was, erm, interesting. Going around the outside of somebody warping worse than the Enterprise resulted in them spinning, so I took up place with H not far behind. Eventually I let him past and set about following. Then the worst part of the track for me bit, going up to mini-Karusell with the bridge. 2 wheels off and a very pee'd off me.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: BadBlood on November 08, 2010, 08:58:58 PM +0000
Just remembered, qualification started about three quarters way round the track. Was that the same for everybody? I’m sure it was the pit lane last year. (BTW that’s my other excuse for not knowing where the pit lane is).

Same for me - it really confused me at first - I thought it had gone wrong! Wot a newbie. lol


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: miner2049er on November 08, 2010, 09:10:25 PM +0000
My ping was between 230-260, but the lag of the cars looked more like it was at least 600-700, as if someone was downloading something through the server's connection.

The server is a spare PC used for GPL and nothing else so there was nothing unusual on the server end and all settings were as they normally are for Novices so not too sure what caused the lag, but most said it was only for the first 20 seconds or so.

Sorry Juha, I just lost it under braking when my front left wheel touched the grass there.

Aah so you made a mistake and crashed but want a rerun because of lag?  ;D ;D

The hedges had elluded me throughout off-line practice, but in the race, one snagged my Ferrari on the first lap, deviously.
Then, with a couple of blind apexes missed, I knocked a wheel loose, and valiantly soldiered on in a car that was no longer sure, of what straights were for! ???

Another 2 laps in a shaky second, and the hedges struck again - inevitably, this time it was race over.

Seems to me, the regulations should allow for a re-run, when this happens.  Grumble!

Sadly the regulations do not allow for re-runs due to driver errors LOL. Good tyr though.  ;D ;D


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: bernie on November 08, 2010, 09:20:57 PM +0000
Quote
Sadly the regulations do not allow for re-runs due to driver errors LOL. Good tyr though.   


Would that be a dunlop or firestone tyr  ;D


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: vosblod on November 09, 2010, 12:24:24 AM +0000
Both results now posted, please submit any Incident Reports by close of play Friday.
I note a few drivers have asked for a re-run of the Works race. A re-run is an absolute last resort and only utilised where there has been a major disaster, eg the server locking up on everyone at Riverside.
We cannot just re-run races on the basis the event has been a bit laggy. UKGPL5 has proved to be our most reliable server in recent history (with our donation commercial server) so I cannot see any blame falling there. Mike is very experienced at firing up servers and has already confirmed there was nothing wrong with the settings.
For info I have looked at the server replay and watched the fate of a number of drivers who went out; each and every one I saw went out whilst running solo and cannot claim any kind of warp contact as a factor in their fatal endings. It is not unusual for Nurby to have a high attrition rate eg 15/6/08, 9/5/10.
Under the circumstances the precedent is Imola (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=8497#event2367) (which actually was due to an incorrect server setting). This was not declared a re-run and it is noted no one in that race even asked for a one.

Accordingly the results stand as posted pending race moderation.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: Hristo Itchov on November 09, 2010, 05:11:39 AM +0000
The server is a spare PC used for GPL and nothing else so there was nothing unusual on the server end and all settings were as they normally are for Novices so not too sure what caused the lag, but most said it was only for the first 20 seconds or so.

Sorry Juha, I just lost it under braking when my front left wheel touched the grass there.

Aah so you made a mistake and crashed but want a rerun because of lag?  ;D ;D

I did crash, yes, but it wasn't in the accident with Juha. Besides, my point was that many people's race was compromised because they had to either go off track or slow down immensely because of cars warping around them.

And no, it definitely didn't disappear after 20 seconds, otherwise it wouldn't have been a problem. It was consistent warping all throughout the practice and race, at least until I quit. Maybe those who kept driving until the finish could report if the lag disappeared when some people left the server? I'm trying to identify if it could have been someone causing the server lag, it's a possibility. Perhaps the server replay could tell.

I want to point out that I'm not trying to blame the server and say "sack it", I know very well it's been used for very long and was working great. We should try to identify what the cause of the problem was though, so it can be prevented in the future if possible.

One thing I still worry about is people entering with 60fps patch on and causing any potential problems. If the server settings have been absolutely the same as always, then the reasons are either server end connection (temporary ISP issues perhaps) or a driver causing server-wide problems.

Anyway, as for the race, I could've challenged Tom had I put enough fuel, but it turned out I put fuel for 6 laps instead of 7. This forced me to start short-shifting heavily on the 3rd lap in attempt to save fuel, but that lost me some 5 seconds to Tom and the gap grew up to 10 seconds at the start of the 4th lap.

I decided to push and attack, and worry about saving fuel in the final laps, but that bit me back as I crashed out. The setup wasn't working well for some reason, though there might've been damage after the early collisions with other cars on lap 1.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: BadBlood on November 09, 2010, 07:35:41 AM +0000
Should have driven like me H - you would have saved plenty of fuel  :laugh:


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: Ronniepeterson on November 09, 2010, 07:45:38 AM +0000
First up congratulations to the podium guys Bernie, Hannah and Billy. Commiserations to Maddog I thought you would have been up there at the expense of one of the top three. Well done to everyone else who survived longer than me. I picked the Honda because it was the only car I had tested in practice which did not blow its engine. So in the race after a couple of tentative laps IT BLEW UP! Then followed total stupidity from me.  I took a Shift-R and immediately buried myself in a hedge. Race over. Just gotta put it down to experience and look forward to the next one.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: Al Heller on November 09, 2010, 09:30:26 AM +0000
Firstly congratulations to Tommie on a very well-deserved (first UKGPL?) win - quick, consistent pace from pole to flag with no mistakes :thumbup1: 

I supposed this would be more of a battle against the circuit than other drivers, so I just stuck pretty rigidly to my lines & braking points without worrying too much about where I was in the race. I went for quite a conservative setup in the Cooper with high ride height & very long gears so was pleased with 8:20 in qually for 4th on the grid. The start was laggy but for me there weren't any disappearing cars or anyone hopping wildly around the track, though I held back from Juha who looked a bit flickery ahead just in case of warp contact. Clive was piling on the pressure during the opening laps, though thankfully made allowances for my much earlier braking. Once Hristo caught Clive, the Wazas did the ol' Switcheroo but too much Honda mirror-watching led me to run a little wide in one corner which I knew H would pounce on so I was quickly relegated to 4th.

After that, I just concentrated hard on maintaining a consistent pace - Clive dropped back after the jump (bad landing?) & that left quite a big gap to FMG & John. I kept expecting them to appear in my mirrors but only dared take my eyes off the track to look at Prib down the long straight. With such infrequent Prib-checking it took a couple laps before I realised they must have got damage or something as the gap wasn't shrinking but nevertheless I maintained my pace & with both H & Juha retiring ahead I ended up 2nd. Although that matches my runner-up spot in last season's Nurby race, I improved my average laptime by 5 seconds to 8:23.9 & I was in the Brab last time out so at least that represents a bit of progress :).


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: maddog on November 09, 2010, 11:18:15 AM +0000
One thing I still worry about is people entering with 60fps patch on and causing any potential problems.

It's not hard to diagnose, if you're accidentally running a 60fps patch, on a 36fps Server.  Every so often, you'll see a visible glitch on the screen.  It all goes snowy for a frame or two.  This is caused by an inaccuracy in the 60's timing, and should be a dead giveaway that you, or someone is too fast, framewise . . . as well as car wise!  Grumble.  I always try to stop by a track on race day, to check that car, track, and peripherals are working correctly, at least to start with. :D


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: b_1_rd on November 09, 2010, 06:03:00 PM +0000
Well, apart from the first part, for me the lag and warping wasn't too bad.  I had a short while running with a couple of cars and apart from the odd little jump of the car, expected on a non-commercial server,  it was ok.

The event itself was pretty lacklustre again from me, getting a bit tired making up the numbers, hopefully get more performance improvement soon and ignite the spark for this again.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: Hristo Itchov on November 09, 2010, 06:08:40 PM +0000
OK, then I suspect the bad lag disappeared when someone left the server. I'm going to take a look at the server replay when it's uploaded (or is it already?).


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: jhalli on November 09, 2010, 07:22:48 PM +0000
here is my replay file so you how terrible lag it had,  unforunatelly it ends short after crash with Hristo.

https://www.yousendit.com/download/dklwM25LZy9mVGF4dnc9PQ


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: vosblod on November 09, 2010, 07:57:43 PM +0000
I'm going to take a look at the server replay when it's uploaded (or is it already?).
Uploaded to the usual place; http://www.jamesonline.net/ukgpl/ (http://www.jamesonline.net/ukgpl/)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: Al Heller on November 09, 2010, 08:03:27 PM +0000
Server was worst at the start but after that calmed down for me too - certainly didn't notice any lag when Clive & H were behind me at the start of lap 2. Does client location have any bearing with these server issues (ie outside UK)?

By the way, I'm confused about the new lap records shown for qually & race. I'm positive Hristo dipped under 8 minutes in last season's race & qualified round that mark too.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: vosblod on November 09, 2010, 08:17:16 PM +0000
By the way, I'm confused about the new lap records shown for qually & race. I'm positive Hristo dipped under 8 minutes in last season's race & qualified round that mark too.
Good point and it is my fault. When I selected the event I chose Nurburgring (GP) as opposed to (Nordschleife) - there's also another version - so it was pulling up records from a track never used in UKGPL. I think I've managed to fix it (it doesn't actually make any difference in the championship tables etc) and have also changed it for the Amateurs race tonight.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: Hristo Itchov on November 09, 2010, 08:17:20 PM +0000
The records for 67 show:

7:54.060 - 107.751mph - Mike Prickett - Lotus - Qualfiying

7:40.710 - 110.873mph   - Vinny Kwiker - Ferrari - Race

Both are from 2002, but Vinny's record is obviously not correct, lol. Probably warp time and should be erased from the system.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: Tom van Ostade on November 09, 2010, 08:45:36 PM +0000
Hi all,

Very happy with my first UKGPL win! Also grats to Al who soldiered on with remarkable pace in the mediocre Cooper, and John for 3rd place!

I decided to explore the limits a tiny bit on the outlap of qualifying, to warm me up a little bit. I then went on with a flawless albeit slightly conservative lap, which about equalled my PB :) . The next lap I went all in but spun it very early in the lap. There were still ten minutes left so I decided to give one of Huttu's Long GP setups a try, with increased ride height, lower wheel rates and more open diff. It felt very solid and although I knew I would probably be faster with my Huttu quali setup, I also knew this would be a matter of surviving rather than pure speed.

The start went well, saw a little warping in my mirrors but nothing jawdropping. I couldn't see it very well in my mirrors but I heard the engine sound of others further away so I just apexed T1 and started to pull away. At Karusel in lap 2 I heared Hristo for the first time and I was getting a bit nervous. I had high hopes built up quietley as Hristo started back in the pack, but he had caught up real fast! I decided to put my foot down a little bit more without taking many more risks, and did two 8:11's, 5 seconds faster than previous laps. It was at this point that Hristo crashed at the 'votfoolplanttreedere' corner, and when my pitboard (no Pribluda here) still showed Hristo even though he had already retired, I knew I had to be ahead by quite a margin, so I decided to take it easy. This presented another challenge as concentration lapsed a coupla times, leading to a half-spin at Adenauer Forst without time loss, and a HUGE scare at Tiergarten, where I almost missed the kink at high speed. But in the last lap I found my groove and settled down to score the win!

About mid-race I was left wondering if I was the only driver left on the server, after seeing a lot of disco's on the screen and my pitboard showed info which was two laps old (Hristo had just crashed). Still, I was surprised only me and Al saw the checkered flag in the end, with John limping home on three wheels one lap back. There was an easy podium up for grabs if someone had taken it easy. Competitive people those UKGPL'ers :D .

Tom.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: Hristo Itchov on November 09, 2010, 11:11:07 PM +0000
Grats on your first UKGPL win, Tom, excellent drive there and I didn't mean to undermine your result with my comments about a re-run, you definitely deserved to win this one.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: vosblod on November 15, 2010, 12:54:02 AM +0000
All moderating now published


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: Hristo Itchov on November 15, 2010, 01:37:32 AM +0000
All moderating now published

I wanna say that while I received a PM about the reported incident, it didn't specify which accident it was about (I was involved in more than one) and it had something like 3 seconds into the replay as time of accidents. I replied to that asking for clarification before I could give my view, but never received an answer...


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: john roberts on November 15, 2010, 01:43:45 AM +0000
All moderating now published

I wanna say that while I received a PM about the reported incident, it didn't specify which accident it was about (I was involved in more than one) and it had something like 3 seconds into the replay as time of accidents. I replied to that asking for clarification before I could give my view, but never received an answer...

Server replay time: 0h03m47s


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: Hristo Itchov on November 15, 2010, 01:48:26 AM +0000
All moderating now published

I wanna say that while I received a PM about the reported incident, it didn't specify which accident it was about (I was involved in more than one) and it had something like 3 seconds into the replay as time of accidents. I replied to that asking for clarification before I could give my view, but never received an answer...

Server replay time: 0h03m47s

It was saying 3 seconds on the report I received. Like 0:03 or something, which I found meaningless at the time and asked for clarification, but never got one. Too late now though. :)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: vosblod on November 15, 2010, 01:50:17 AM +0000
I wanna say that while I received a PM about the reported incident, it didn't specify which accident it was about (I was involved in more than one) and it had something like 3 seconds into the replay as time of accidents. I replied to that asking for clarification before I could give my view, but never received an answer...
3.47 might be 3m 47s - I would not stoop to treat you like an idiot H so I left it to you...
If you feel it was an unfair ruling you can Appeal


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Graduates Cup (67) - Nürburgring (GP) - Nov 7
Post by: Hristo Itchov on November 15, 2010, 09:12:39 AM +0000
I wanna say that while I received a PM about the reported incident, it didn't specify which accident it was about (I was involved in more than one) and it had something like 3 seconds into the replay as time of accidents. I replied to that asking for clarification before I could give my view, but never received an answer...
3.47 might be 3m 47s - I would not stoop to treat you like an idiot H so I left it to you...
If you feel it was an unfair ruling you can Appeal

No, I won't appeal, was just asking why I never received a reply to my request for clarification. I was awaiting for that before I gave my report, just to make sure I was reporting on the right thing. Will keep in mind the timing format for next time though, thanks.