SimRacing.org.uk

Having braved the freezing heights of the Nurburgring our brave contenders travel to the lower but equally chilly regions of Wiltshire to fight it out for round 4.
So the circus now finds itself terrorising the peacefull quiet of Castle Combe - a circuit that was renowned as the fastest circuit in the UK before it's introduction of the chicanes.
However there are some tricky corners here (Most of them actually) which may yet equal the field enough to give some tight racing regardless of HP.
Currently Hristo is claiming a tenuous hold on the number one spot of the championship, very closely followed by myself.
Goran, KingHiro and EvilClive are forming an equally tight group squabbling over 3rd.
As there is a long way to go still the championship is realisticly anyones as we progress onto faster circuits..

Although it is traditional at Combe to have a lap 1 pileup at Quarry may I respectfully ask contenders to resist the urge - Unlike the foreign circuits we've visited so far Steve and I have to tidyup after us here  ;)

Hristo has correctly guessed the theme for the passwords now so no need to continue those shinanigans (Even if he did use Google and cheat :P ) any further

Race List = IGOR
Server = UKGPL_T7_2
IP address = 62.149.202.168
Race date = 23-11-2010
Time = 21:00 UK time
Track = Castle Combe - IMPORTANT UPDATE! : For those of you using the high detail version of Combe, There is a bug in the draw distance which can cause CTD's etc.
A fix is available here (http://srmz.net/index.php?s=07e52f0eaaa32cbd481e05a39b72be8f&showtopic=1071&view=findpost&p=19673) (Only nessicary if you installed the 'high detail' version of Combe, 'Medium detail' versions are fine  :)

Variant = 65F1
Damage Model = PRO
Qualifying time = 35 minutes. Don't start until 30 mins left on clock to allow everyone to join.
Race length = 50 minutes (laps 48)
Password: see above (#post_event_password)

65 Patch: The 2.02 Release of the 65mod can be used.

Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R;group=276;theme=6)
The track can be downloaded from : Here (http://gpltd.bcsims.com/?dis=C#11)
Add-on’s available at : Thomas Laechele's website (http://www.thomas-laechele.de/gpl/) (Very nice work - recommended)

Please be in IGOR UKGPL chatroom by 8:50 pm UK Time

Reserve drivers should not join the server(s) until there are only 30 minutes of qualifying left. Please restrict chat to pit messages. Moderating will be by reported incidents only, however the moderators reserve the right to review any incident with a particular emphasis on lap one. The aim is to review the race the following weekend so incident reports should be submitted within five days of the race (ie the following Friday). We're hopeful most incidents can be resolved amicably and recommend a days deep breath with a replay review before posting. A sorry in the forum won't be taken as an automatic admission of guilt by the moderators.
The race will be run on PRO Damage.

NOTE: Please ensure you join the correct server, due to the way we import if you start the race on the wrong server your result will not count.

Chassis assignments can be found HERE (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=8480.0)

**NOTE**
Whichever chassis a driver begins race 1 with is the chassis he must use for the remainder of the season unless a change has been agreed with the moderator.


About the Track

The Castle Combe airfield opened in May 1941. The land which the airfield occupied belonged to the Castle Combe estate, which was owned by the Gorst family. The airfield functioned for seven years before being decommissioned in 1948.
Castle Combe Circuit opened just 18 months after Silverstone in the summer of 1950, making it one of the longest established circuits in the UK. Over the next few years, the circuit attracted star names such as Stirling Moss, Mike Hawthorn, Roy Salvadori and John Surtees. Until 1999, the circuit followed it's original layout, around the perimeter of the old air base. Nigel Mansell, Ayrton Senna, and David Coulthard all won races in the 70's and 80's, and by the 90's, the circuit hosted rounds of most of the national championships.
In 2005, the circuit was issued with a noise nuisance order, which meant that the circuit had to reduce its noise level. The British Formula Three Championship, British GT Championship and British Touring Car Championship were louder than permitted, and so were prevented from returning. Local championships dedicated to Saloon Cars, GTs and Formula Ford are still active

OK - not strictly Amateurs (although I am somewhat more amateur than most). I am getting framerates of 7ish when in a race. In solo practice, solid 36. I have re-installed the track and have never had this problem before. The low frame rates even affect AI races. Any one got any ideas cos that would be me out of Tuesday's race.

Tx.

P.

Are you on the original graphical release Paul? Combe was done in 4bit textures so is really quite light compared to most circuits in it's release form.

Have you tried turning the detail slider down (to say halfway for the sake of arguement) to see what happens?  :)

I was running 640 x 480 for yesterday's race - no difference. I've just tried Spa (its the next race) and that is affected too. The only thing I can think that I've changed is to patch Pribluda for the D3D2 rasterizers.

I'm going to try my other PC and see if that is affected too. This is looking bad!

Weird though because the GTs at Watkins Glen were fine and that is MUCH heavier graphically - Nicky was providing the servers for both so I am at a loss to explain it. Thanks for the feedback though.

Looks like it is the D3DV2 with Prib. OGLV2 is OK - any disadvantages to OGL?

Not really, they just draw things slightly differently.
It sounds to me like your pc doesn't like D3DV2 for the older mods - any reason you can't race the 65's using D3DV1?
In fact have you tried changing back to it since installing the new prib? Prib doesn't do enough to realistically impact framerates that heavily in a race so I'd be suprised if that was your issue :)

For some reason with D3D v1 the menus flicker like crazy - doesn't seem to affect the race itself. Just annoying.

It was quite funny yesterday - I had changed from my defauly 1920x1080 to 640x480 and I couldn't recognise the braking points - I was lapping Castle Combe at 1:22 and even I am not that bad!

OGLv2 seems solid. Thanks for the help. Panicked a bit there - rebuilt the installation recently which is why I am a bit nervous!

I'm using OGLv2 with Prib no probs.  AFAIK Prib doesn't work with the V2 direct X (D3D) rasteriser.  It didn't work properly with V1 D3D either.  I suspect your problems are down to that.

I've got so used to Prib now I struggle without it so it's OpenGL for me.

Thanks Phil. OGL it is then.

Well, that's strange because when I installed the GT MOD I had to upgrade from the original Prib which I had been using for years, and follow the instructions to import the new rasterisers to run the GT's.
But, I could not get the new prib to work ( or even show!!)  until I reverted to the old D3D rasteriser??? which is what I am using now and I don't have any framerate probs even with the GT's???
Don't ask me to explain this computer wizardry, because I have absolutely no idea why this is so.....it just is, and I accept it  :-\

After some fannying around I got V2 rasters, D3DV2 and Prib all working happily.

Plenty of people had the same problem, read the file pribluda.log from your GPL folder and you'll see it reports success all the way down but Prib still does not work.

The solution is in this thread

http://srmz.net/index.php?showtopic=5835&st=0

Follow it through and try each step which is easier than it sounds, but I didn't get it working until I used the dllonly.zip on page 4 of the thread.

Basically you have to find a pribluda.dll and pribluda.ini that work together.

I have all the files from that thread and will build a page with full instructions, but not before Castle Coombe so try it yourself.

I'm running D3DV2 and prib fine - but as mike says it involved an aweful lot of mucking about aswell as someone elses prib.ini file before it appeared (I actually thought I got that file from Phil, but I guess not from his post).

I can share the .ini and .dll files if needed, but I've edited the .ini to display everything correctly where I want it on a 1920x1200 display so stuff won't appeal to people on smaller displays  ;D

Hmm that's interesting.  The readme for the pribluda patch states this


So I must have an old Pribluda patch?  I'm pretty sure I'm using the latest version of Pribluda i.e. v1.1.1.0

LOL just read Mike's post, I'm not.  Latest version on Pribluda web site (http://www.amirkamal.com/gpl/pribluda/pribluda_readme.html#downloads) is v1.1.1.0 so web site is out of date.

Think I'm on 1.1.2.1

All very strange - had patched Prib to 1.1.2.0 to get it working with D3Dv2 - should have stuck with D3Dv1 but had to switch to OGL on my new build and it was AWFUL. Blocky lines everywhere. So I was keen to use D3Dv2 and followed up some comments and ended up at that thread. Followed the instructions, seemed fine but the 65 mod seems not to like it. No problems at all with the GT's. OGLv2 seems OK but who knows. Frankly, the speed I drive at I hardly need Prib. If somebody is coming from behind I know they are lapping me lol

I'm losing track which version your trying where but when you say blocky lines, do you mean in the sky? If its with V1 OGL and Nvidia then try
Taken from http://wiki.grandprixlegends.info/index.php?title=GPL_FAQ_and_troubleshooting_guide (http://wiki.grandprixlegends.info/index.php?title=GPL_FAQ_and_troubleshooting_guide)

Thanks Steve. This all started because I couldn't use D3D raterizers on this PC - a small portion of the screen appears - very odd. Ok with D3Dv2 but no Prib. SO change to OGL and race at Zaandvoort - very odd lines in the sky. Notice there is a patch for D3Dv2 for Prib. Try it - works great. Run a race with BREASTS frame rates of 7. Aaaaggggghhhh. So now OGLv2 and Prib. Seems stable don't want to touch it again!

Thanks to everyone for their help. Now all I need is a rasterizer that will cut 5 secs off my lap times :D

With V1 and D3D I used to get flickering menus and blocky lines where the lap times and drivers should be listed on the event page.

OK. Not just me then. GPL seems to be quite sensitive to graphics drivers under Windows 7. I cannot run the latest Radeon drivers - GPL won't even start!

There is an hotfix for that on AMD/ATI website for Win7/Vista drivers.

Thanks but the latest drivers on there really screw my PC over

Can't get on with this track at all ,

Is it the tarmac colour or the sun in me eyes or just maybe I'm going blind  :(

I cant find any corner apex or braking points  :-\


seem to remeber doing this way back in 67 's but sure the track looked a lot different than it does now  ::) ::) ::)

Zero practice, zero knowledge of the track except the fact it goes in a circle and is in mainland Britain, and I've no idea if this is pre-chicanes or the butchered track.

Tonight's gonna be fun!

No chicanes. It's a short track yet very tricky as Bernie says. I felt uncomfortable throughout the whole BREASTS race last Wednesday, so it takes some time to get used to it, with the lack of reference points in the surroundings. The braking zones are particularly tricky, with bumps and crests to unsettle the car.

You better do some laps beforehand, Jethro!

Not too different in real life on most corners Bernie  ;)

Only quarry has easy landmarks to brake from really in the real world, and that's in part due to a nasty bump at the bottom of Avon rise, and in part the wood on the hill to your left  ;D
Everything else you need to rely on brake boards and timing

I use a trick to time my braking better: after you do a good amount of laps, you can use your engine revs and engine sound to time your braking point. As long as you have OK exits from the previous corners and you accelerate normally until the next corner, your revs and engine sound would always be just about the same at the moment you need to brake. You can adjust that in each lap, e.g. try braking a few revs later or earlier if needed.

It helps a lot when there are no good objects on the side as a reference braking point or the groove is unuseable, such as when it's simply wrong or when you're following another car closely (though you have to take slipstream into account).

IMPORTANT UPDATE! : For those of you using the high detail version of Combe, There is a bug in the draw distance which can cause CTD's etc.
A fix is available here (http://srmz.net/index.php?s=07e52f0eaaa32cbd481e05a39b72be8f&showtopic=1071&view=findpost&p=19673) (Only nessicary if you installed the 'high detail' version of Combe, 'Medium detail' versions are fine and won't cause any issues :)

I don't really know this track ;)....much

Anyway, at risk of giving all my next to useless secrets away and the possibility of finishing anywhere but bottom 3; here's my take on braking points:

From the grid you have the right kink (folly) and I'm sure you can cope with that but approaching Quarry you will notice a tyre wall on the left; I brake just as the end of the tyre wall is about to disappear out of view ( I use default FOV) (if you are an alien adjust as necessary!!!)

For Old Paddock Bend I use approximately (perhaps ever so slightly past) the mid point between the first and second brake board.

For Tower I use a point just before the speaker cone on the left (close to the white tent/building) goes out of view.

Not a braking point but - at the 'Westway' right kink I begin turn-in at the second to last advertising board.

The final turn (Camp) I brake again using the tyre wall at about 1/2 (give or take a gnats tadger (ish))  a second before the end goes out of view.

Probably completely different to everyone else, and I expect far from technically correct but might help a small bit, but no doubt about it, its a tricky place.

I'll see you in the Quarry tyres ;)  but I hear the marshals are good here, particularly at cleaning up after massive starline incidents around the Folly area - eh Tim  ;D

Thank you Tim and Steve - might not go off every lap now!

I'm using the Hristo method of engine note brake reference .

Can't decide if quarry should be A flat in 4th of F sharp in 5th though  :D

cant get to log in to SRMZ for this atm  ???

Did a little bit of practice on this one and set a PB by some margin in qually so felt confident about the race.

Didn't drop the clutch properly at the start so the car didn't get away when the flagged dropped. Got hit from behind whilst stationary, but the car seemed Ok when it landed on its wheels.

Did a couple of laps and my pace felt good and i knew i could catch some people in front (a rariety for me in an Ams Race). Passed Bernie, but 2 corners later he hit me from behind. Not sure why but don't really care.

3 Laps / 3 minutes - Load of sh1te and waste of en evening.

As i write this, there's probably 40 Laps remaining in the race so i'd like to be the first to congratulate Hristro on another fantastic win.  :D

I won't sulk though. Back for the next one..yawn.  ;)

Qualified towards the back end of the front of the grid, clobbered somebody off the start when I aimed to get around them after the flag dropped, and trundled around the back of the field behind everybody save for Goran after I spun it.

I don't enjoy the Cooper, it's not a good car in my hands and when I push it to the limits it quickly jumps over and despite me driving what feels like on the ragged edge with my foot to the floor I can't go any quicker with it.

Fulvio's and evil's setups were a dream to drive BTW, but in my hands this thing feels like an asthmatic hamster - just not plain fast enough.

dc .that destroyed not only my race but the rest of the evening too  :censored: The Q bar went to halfway up and stayed there.Never had anything close to problem before that.It was very smooth. I used the track add on from thomas something that was linked.
anyone knows if resolution can have something to do with it? first time I used default monitor that is 1680 x1050.I ve always ussed 1280 x 1040 something.
really looked forward to this and maybe climb up to third. Don t think I ll prepare much for next race.
I go watch porn

Incidentally, if anyone wants a decent update for this track, as well as many others, visit this guys site below.

http://www.thomas-laechele.de/gpl/

Right, going back to sulk now.

Enjoy the porn Tom LOL. I realise you were upset but we don't use the F word (or the like) in our forums. We do try to keep some standards ;D so I've taken the liberty of amending your post.

Put in a reasonable qually lap but i was never going to trouble the leaders.  Blew an engine in qually too so decided to keep the revs down to 10,500 in the race (I was in the Lotus BTW).

Start of the race was a bit of a disaster, somebody ended up sideways across the track in front of me and I couldn't avoid them.  Then I got shunted from behind.  Thankfully the car seemed OK so I set off after the pack.  Managed to avoid a couple of other stricken cars.  Don't know what happened to them but I didn't add to the carnage by hitting them.

Settled down into a steady rhythm and looked on prib for Steve and Bernie (the only guys in the race at my level the rest of you are a bit too quick).  Saw Bernie behind and Steve ahead so I pressed on.  After a few laps Bernie disappeared off prib but it took me over half the race to reel Steve in.  Just got on his tail and he pulled out just after Avon Rise.  I assume it was engine trouble?  Bad luck Steve.

After that I tried to keep a steady pace and stay on the tarmac.  Goran had been a few seconds back most of the race but he got to within 300 yards of me just as Tom appeared ready to lap us.  Tom got past Goran and I slowed to let Tom by over the start line.  I then accelerated hard but I'd lost a lot of momentum and I didn't know where Goran was but I could hear him so I knew he was close.  As we crested Avon rise I still couldn't see Goran so I tried to stay right but we made contact and we both flew off into the corn field.  Thankfully we could both continue.

Oh no he didn't , a sad end to two of the greatest ( unrecognised ) talents in UKGPL if not the whole world  ::)


Let the mods decide who if anyone was to blame for the unfortunate coming together  :-\

Sorry.I ve settled down now.not angry anymore . I just sit alone in my apartement and look out the window on the grey cold weather outside. :'(

Results are up  :)

Tom did you install the patch I linked to earlier? Server/lag was rock solid for me so afraid it must have been at your end :( a shame as I was expecting you to wrestle 2nd back off me in a huge fight....

First up I'd like to appologise for forgetting the loose starting grid, I did and double checked everything else and it totally slipped my mind  :-[

Got an OK start although was swapped by BRM's at the drop of the flag due to the grid, it was very busy approaching Quarry but was pleased when everyone got through cleanly - the one BRM to loose in on entry managed to avoid everyone else although they had a distinct effect on mine and Clive's underwear  :o

Spent the first 4 laps catching back upto H while trying to get away from Clive who'd attatched some bungies to the gearbox of my car. Eventually when I managed to pass Tom and follow Hristo I managed to escape, the next 10 or so laps were spent trying to get properly into H's slipstream so i could upset him.
This eventually failled when I ran wide at Old Paddock 2 laps in a row and he pulled away to a 2 second gap - with my left rear now far too hot due to the slides I had no choice but to settle into a safe 2nd.
12 million laps later and I finished 17 seconds down having made use of my time experimenting with lines and braking points (And mostly doing it slower  ::) )

A good race otherwise, congrats to all finishers and commiserations to those who didn't

another rip-roaring success of a race.

The engine blew at 11500 rpm!

Beginning to wonder if its really worth the effort.  Clearly off pace, slower than most of the Novs too, woohoo, awesome! And doesn't look like getting any better any time soon. :-\

As I've said many times before, that's the wrong way to drive these. You're just overdoing it and you lose a lot of speed that way. If you watch the replay from mine or Tim's cars, you'll see we're applying gradual throttle and flooring always costs us some time. You have to be patient with these and only floor them when they're going straight or almost straight.

Thanks, Clutch!  ;D

Sounds like a regular d/c to me, Tom. Shame, because the battle was shaping up nicely. At least we drop the 2 worst results in a season, so you've not lost any chances yet.

As for my race, I tried a lot of setup changes and lines during Qualifying, and discovered some things that gained me a few tenths which was enough to take pole, but I lost 1st place immediately after the start. The darn flagman dropped it too soon while I was still trying to get comfortable in my chair, lol.

I had to follow Tom for some laps and despite being slightly quicker through some corners, his BRM would open up a gap on each straight. Eventually he seemed like he let me by at T3 or maybe he lost the car a bit on entry, not sure. After that he and Tim dropped back a bit, engaged in their own fight.

Soon Tim was clear though and began chasing me hard, closing in to about a second with some very fast cornering through T3 and T5. The gap stabilized at 1 second for a while though and then opened up to 2 seconds and stayed like that for a while again.

Eventually Tim had a problem of some kind because he dropped back further and I could relax a bit, but not too much as there were some 30 laps to go. There were no surprises until the end though and my car was handling very consistently throughout the whole race, so I took full advantage of that.

-=Hristo=-

Not my best performance and even if I had some bad luck on lap 1 I would not have been higher up anyway.

I am not use to being lapped so I hope I did not make it too hard for you to get bye.

I know things got not so good after Tom van Ostade lapped me. At the time I had just closed up on Phil and when he slowed for Tom to pass I say my chance. Well, just as Phil did not know where I was I did not know were he was but somehow I thought I was in front, but I was not and when the turn came, well let`s say we were both lucky but in the process Al and Fulvio were there as well and I just hope that I did not make too much trouble for all involved.

I think I`ll better try not to get lapped again because it was not that much fun really and it seem that I do best when there are not so many cars around.

Maybe it is a bit too early but I hope that I can drop this result at the end of the season and only better my position from now on.

But, realistically with so many new, and old, fast guys around maybe I will see this as my new standard position.  :'(

That is if I can not find a way to better my performance.

Göran

There's always a away and nobody should ever assume they've used all of their potential. All of us are severely underestimating our true potential and should keep trying to find more within. Even when you've seemingly hit a plateau (I've had for the past 3-4 years), there's always something extra inside yourself which waits to be revealed. One thing that is for certain is that your mindset has a lot to do with it.

Let the Force be your strength young Padawan  ;)

It look like I have myself to blame. Guess all xpt me read the important notice. dl the track quickly and didn t read more couple of days ago. I even asked the pw in chat.

I kinda let you go yes cause I made a quick plan to let you pull us both away.however a tiny mistake got tim in attack positoin and later with evil. somewhat awkward brakezones on this track and when I get more experienced I will try to hold position . But then I need to practice more online not just alone.For now It seem better to let go if someone is clearly attacking and a side by side into scary brakezones likely will follow. I noticed I tend to defend completely or let go completely.And usually wait for some mistake when I attack so I m more or less clear before next turn on tracks like this.Not to be understood as I don t like those tracks.
I followed evil for several laps and waited for and waited for an opportunity.a small mistake cause I followed so close put me couple of secs back, but I was up in close contact 2 laps later. with 4 th in my pocket wich would have been nice and comfortable gap down to 5 th I was really enjoying myself.Nr 1 determination was to not put evil and or myself out of the race, but the race was long and I thought opportunities would come...at least so I thought until I was completely alone on the track followed by some server error message. :'( 16 laps wasn t even enough to lap the Swede..

Next race I m on vacation in Dubai.poor me more points lost.maybe I d better stay home.But the international clubs have prostitudes from all over the world I ve heard so I can seek some comfort.I think I ll have a look at that red car factorys building in abu dabi as well.(spelling might be incorrect).I ll have a look at the racetracks at least. :)

Tom, if you're going to Dubai then do something important. Leave that red car factory and racetrack. Concentrate on prostitutes. When you'll get back tell as is it worth to go there :D

As Hrsito says; a great deal of performance is determined by your mindset.
It's quite possible that you're currently struggling because you're trying too hard.
I did that in the season following my first championship win as I thought I had to try harder and get faster - instead I got no faster and fell off more  ;D
The BT11 is fairly forgiving in this regard but when you do over-drive it it will slow you heavily, you know as well as we do that you're actually very quick.
Try a more relaxed approach and you should be more consistent, quite possibly faster aswell. A key example there would be (new)Tom and Evil's Cooper laptimes Vs Jethro who is still over driving his.
We all know Jethro is very fast when actually dialled in  :)

Combination of factors in my opinion. Partly the fact that the competition between the fastest guys like Tim & H means they have raised their game this season & partly that there have been no outright power circuits yet so the gap between the most handicapped chassis & the others has been narrowed - after all it's been 4 BT7 wins out of 4 races so far. If Goran isn't at the sharp end for Monza then it might be time to book a session with the sports psychologist though!

My first time at this track & I liked it a lot - not particularly competitive here but my race in the midfield was quite exciting. Spent the early laps in a mini-Spec race with the matching BRM's of Bob & Natan. Spent several laps unsuccessfully trying to find a way past Natan while Tommie snapped at my heels in his Cooper. Eventually Tommie got past me & gave me the best seat in the house for the battle between him & Natan which finally ended when Natan's BRM went pop. Seeing my own engine temperatures creeping up, I started taking it a bit easier on the revs & I guess busy thinking about that managed to mix up the corners ::) - heading flat out into the 3rd gear turn. Realised way too late & went off which let Fulvio through but luckily I managed to miss the barriers & could continue undamaged. Tried hard to catch Fulvio but whenever I closed the gap he responded so I ended up 6th at the flag.

Congrats to H & the podium. Also to Tommie & Fulvio for good clean racing.   

Key part: when.

Hristo commented in a BREASTS 65s race at Kyalami that he'd not seen me as fast in the Cooper before, and that was only because I was totally dialled in with the track and setup and braking points.

Here, I learnt the track, got lucky with a tow to set what appeared to be a good first proper flying lap, then set about exploring the track limits and realising without a tow I was just slow.

With the BT11 I can push from the get-go, it totally suits me. The Cooper is just alien in this regard, which makes it difficult to adapt.

Not true, it's only Tim who has upped his performance and I think there's still more to come from him, while I've been on a plateau for years really. It's just some discoveries about car setup that helped me improve a bit, but as far as driving is concerned there's nothing different.

I believe there are a lot of people who can join us in the battle at the front if only they discover the missing ingredient. You, Al, as well as Jethro, Evil (who has also improved a lot in the past 2 seasons), the two Toms, Goran and so on. AA from Novices as well!

I'm looking forward to when that happens because it would make for fantastic races, not that they're aren't exciting and challenging already of course.

Well, I've well and truly lost my enthusiasm for gpl right now so I've now decided to take a break altogether.  No point in doing something I'm not really enjoying just now.

I have to agree with Al that the tracks so far do seem to largely remove whatever small advantage the extra power has, but I'm not declaring that as the reason for not wanting to take part any more and at the end of the day, the fast guy should win.

TBH I don't really buy into the mind set thing, I think its more down to ability, experience and practice.  I think everyone tries as hard as they can to be as fast as they can but its as with all things, some find it easier than others.

I'm sure plenty will have their opinions on that.

Anyway, hope you all continue to have fun in GPL.

See you around.

Very sorry to hear that Steve although I know you haven't been enjoying it of late and, as you say, having fun is what it's all about. In your time as Membership Secretary you've done an excellent job.
Anyway I hope you re-find your GPL mojo at some point, and keep in touch.

Sorry to here your off mate escp. since we seam to be of the same ability GPL wise , always looked out to race you and Phil but sadly it doesnt seem to have worked out much this season .

Hope you find yer Mojo soon , I'm sure you will  :)

For what its worth Ive lost mine a more than a time or two but somehow it came back again , often a rest works wonders so hope when you do decide to rejoin us you will have a new found enthusiasm and be at least 2 sec a lap faster than now  :)

I'm very sorry to hear that Steve, as mentioned a few weeks ago are you sure it's not just the Waza-mobile you arn't getting on with? I've always found that very odd compared to the rest of the field - once the tyres are warm you almost have to over-drive it to compensate for lack of grip which isn't helpfull on tighter circuits.
We're approaching the mid point so would you prefer a BT11, BRM or similar maybe to see if that can get your enjoyment back up?


As for my comments on mindset, I mean that more in the sense of competing against yourself.
While it helps in a race, abilities thorughout the field will have a greater impact on relative speed/lap times.


I'll hopefully continue to race you in P&G land anyway, and will see you next Spring regardless :thumbup1:

really sorry to hear that you are not enjoying life in GPL Steve.

But, I also sympathise with you if things just are not hapening for you at the moment. Although much can be said about the psychology of virtual racing, if it ain't happening, then it ain't happening :-\ and there is nothing worse than trudging around a circuit feeling more and more depressed about one's performance.

There have been times when I have felt the same and almost given up and taken a sabbatical ( 67's feel like that now >:( ).

I hope the "urge" is re-kindled soon Steve and you can rejoin the mayhem in GPL.  BREASTS might be a no-pressure place to keep yourself "in touch" meanwhile  ;)

Well the fact that you said you've started practising for races again (and posting a few tasty world records) has perhaps made some difference. Maybe it's more consistency rather than outright speed? Not complaining btw - ultimately it's still up to the rest of us to do our best to catch you, Tim or whoever else is in front.

Hoping Steve goes for a sabbatical rather than retirement - sorry to see you go mate.

can someone point me in the direction of the server replay for the ams race ? forgot to save mine  ::)

Nooooooooooooooo  you're my target man this season.  After loosing out to you last season in the Graduates, Amateurs and the big one - the heavies in the Spec series, you've inspired me to get better.  We had some great battles in the heavies but you always had the edge.  I've managed to up my game this season but with you gone I've only got Bernie to dice with so I'll have to focus on catching someone else but Pod, Natan, Fulvio and Al are quite a bit quicker.  Having said that both you and Bernie are ahead of me in the championship table, having qualified higher up I haven't managed to convert that to a bigger haul of points.

I hope you can rekindle your enthusiasm for GPL, perhaps you've overdosed a bit of late.  Doing all the UKGPL races and BREASTS is very time consuming.  I've cut down to one night a week this season (Tuesdays) and I'm finding that I'm really looking forward to the races after a 7 day layoff.  I have a bit more time to prepare and only the 65s and 66s to learn.

Here you go Bernie - prizes for guessing the start of the pile up?....... ;D

combe replay (http://www.jamesonline.net/ukgpl/2010.11.23_Ams_Combe/)

Just watched the replay - no idea why I was apologising for scaring you at the start of the race Tim, as it turns out I was miles behind :D Another BRM was the culprit ;)

Hi all,

This was a bit of a last minute decision for me as I got home early enough from work and knew the track from previous leagues. The pickup practice race I did before the real one helped a lot as I was into the mid 1:02's at first. Unfortunately a combination of lack of practice, unability to qualify well altogether, and a close competitive grid meant I had to start from waaaaaaaaaaaaay back. The start was slightly chaotic but everyone kept his head and I got through T1 unscaved. After that I started challenging the guys up front, but I found out passing here is insanely difficult. I studied Al's driving style for a while before giving it a real go after the fast right-hand kink. It was a bit of a kamikaze move and educated guess from where I expected Al to brake, where I should start braking and where I would overtake him into the corner, as I couldn't really pull alongside. Thankfully Al was racing very fair and kept us both alive, as I wouldn't have been able to avoid him if he had chosen to go all in and attack the corner in a move to stay in front of him. Thanks Al, fair racing :) .

After that I tried to get past Natan but I soon found out why many people have chosen the BRM. I was eating myself up in the corners where I was much faster, but then He'd just pull away on the straights so there wasn't any chance I could outbrake him. Then he suddenly pulled over to the right in what looks like a black screen from the replay. Too bad for Natan, but finally I had some clear track ahead of me. Evil had pulled a gap of about 18 seconds, but in the rest of the race I managed to equal his pace although I couldn't close the gap to something smaller unfortunately. I was just hoping he'd mess up and give me the chance to catch up but that didn't happen obviously ;D . So I finished in P4.

Commiserations to Steve for losing to GPL vibe. I've always found the Honda (well the '67 RA300, never driven the '65 RA272) a bit of a handfull to drive. You can tell the chassis wasn't designed with too many corners in mind, it just had to win the Indy 500 (which it did in 1966 with Hill, or was it Clark in the Lotus...). Monza was fast enough to cover up the faults, but it wasn't as good at the twistier tracks unfortunately. That's why I picked the Ferrari 312 in the Graduates Cup, it has V12 power coupled with decent handling. You could try that in the Grad's perhaps.

Tom.

"I have to agree with Al that the tracks so far do seem to largely remove whatever small advantage the extra power has, but I'm not declaring that as the reason for not wanting to take part any more and at the end of the day, the fast guy should win".



Totally sympathise SB. I love this game but ever since i've moved up to the Ams i've been bored stiff with the online stuff. With one or 2 exceptions, the racing has been incredibly boring for me, mainly because i tend to be driving round on my own for 40minutes of a 50minute race.

I got a 2nd place at the Schottenring last season. How did i do it? Was it a thrilling racelong battle? Was it a charge through the field? Was it holding my nerve with a 3rd place Driver behind? No, i drove along, on my own for 95% of the race without seeing a single other car and realised there was no point pushing to get any higher up the standings.

Nothing beats the online stuff though as its better taking on 'real' people, but what i'd give for shorter races to lessen the agony. Even the fast guys must admit, its all done and dusted after 30minutes in the majority of cases.

Anyway, moan over, wish i could stay away, but i love GPL and UKPGL too. See you all at Dijon (before you all disappear!! haha).  ;)  I'll try and practice but the horespower isn't going to help here either. Ah Well.

If i was you SB (and we're not too different on pace), i'd pop in for Monza and see if the horsepower helps. Absence makes the heart grow fonder.

Steve, if your approach is not correct, trying hard would be pointless. You may try hard for years and not gain anything, or you may try something different and gain an advantage in a day. It's definitelly not about trying hard, it's about doing the right things and recognizing your mistakes. Smart work instead of hard work.

It's not a bad thing to take a break and recharge your batteries, but I hope you'll find the motivation to continue racing and find what's necessary to improve. Ability is a very relative thing and I don't believe it's the most important factor. Experience comes with time, but it's important that it is the right kind of experience as well.

As for practice, too much of it can be as negative as too little of it.

I agree the mind is an element of driving and racing, but for me it is no more important than the practical side and more so when you're not at the fast end of the grid.

For the record; its not the Honda, I took the car knowing I was probably going to struggle more with it than other cars available to me, but I like to try different things.  I took the BRM for 20 minutes at Castle Combe last night just for one final blast, and was 2 seconds slower!

Anyway, the wheel's packed away for now, replaced by a joystick to get back to a little flying which is my real passion online, but also a lot more time away from the PC doing some other stuff.  I expect it'll be temporary but I doubt I'll be back any time soon and probably to something a touch more modern.

Thanks for the comments and messages.  Cheers for now.

Sorry to hear about you leaving Steve,I hope you will be back soon. You have always been here so it will be a big hole now.

As for the performance stuff, thanks for the input. I have defined one area where I get stuck. The setup -  driving, I mean should I try to get a better setup or should I refine the driving with what I got. I often get stuck here and then I end up out of time and come to the race without a clear setup, not good.

I totally agree about the mind stuff but I have a kind of mind bug that lead to that I tend to quit if I do not get the result I want. I am working on that one.

Göran

Actually I choose Dijon as a circuit where power should be an advantage  :)
That's a very long straight and as the first half is uphill (Quite steep to begin aswell) it'll deffinatly give the bigger cars an advantage. The rest of the circuit is quite fast so the advantage given in corners to the 16v posse should be negated more easily than on a slower circuit  :yes:

It certainly wasn't my intention to pick circuits that favoured slower cars - we've just started out on some fiddly ones is all  :ninja: Combe is the first proper power circuit we've had and I must admit to being supprised how easy H and I had it after Tom had to disconnect  :o

Steve, I've also had periods where I had taken a break from online racing and went on to do other favorite things of mine, so it's quite normal. Everyone gets fed up eventually and needs that. As long as you have passion for racing, it's going to creep back to you with time and you can return to it with fully recharged batteries and high motivation. Experience is also something that settles in better after some time away from a given a activity, so once you break off the rust when you return, you're most likely going to find you've become a better driver overall. Enjoy your "vacation"!


I think you should stick to a setup for a while once you feel comfortable with it, rather than look for tweaks that improve performance. If you have a setup that fits your current driving style but you're not maximizing its potential in terms of lap times yet, then use it without making changes to it until you reach a point where you're not improving anymore despite not making any mistakes.

It's a personal thing of course, setup and driving style, as they always go together, but unless you've driven for long and have settled with a certain driving style, there's still room to adapt and learn new habits. The key is always in observing things in details, both while driving and while watching your replay/RA data later. Only that way you can recognize what is caused by issues of the setup or mistakes in your driving techniques. It's about becoming as much aware as possible of what you're doing at any given moment on the track.

Far be it for me, a mere Nov to butt in on the Ams postings but with SB taking a hopefullly only temporary break Clutch & Phil(I think) even considering Novs makes me wonder if all is not well. So here's a suggestion. Stop running under pro rules & run under the same rules as the Novs AND(say it loud & proud) ALLOW SHIFT R & S&G. Who the hell wants to practice to whatever level they feel they can, turn up at the race & last 3 minutes.
 
I suppose the Novs champ feels he has to move up or he could be accused of trophy hunting in the unlikely event of a 2nd championship. Let someone else have a win. That's good

Finally if some of you Ams are concerned about lonely races why not do what drivers do in the impromtu fun races on the server every night. Slow down & wait tilll someone catches you let them pass & have a dice from there. Bollocks to the championship points - thats for the reallly fast men - just have fun ;). Yeah I know it defeats the object but.............. Shift R eh - don't yer just love it ;D 

Think on it

Norm H

How would intermediate damage and shift-r make a difference and how would it close the gaps? Pro damage has a lot of advantages, such as more respect between drivers on the track, more responsibility in what you do (knowing that taking big risks can end your race) and in general improving your self- and car-control.

I'll always support Pro damage and it has nothing to do with my results.

Racing under PRO rules is awesome, and SHIFT R is for pussies :P

Miaaow.

Actually I don't mind the one Shift-R in the Grads and driving lonely races is not necessarily a problem (although it does make it a bit of a shock when you actually come across somebody). The stance is quite agressive in UKGPL and I bailed at both Zandvoort and Combe because I didn't want to ruin anyone's races. I have already picked up four penalty points for mistakes that were down to inexperience. That does NOT lend itself to attracting new members who are slow and learning.

I enjoy the BREASTS races and learn far more than in the championships because I am not worried about Penalty Points or being flamed by another driver - people are generally very welcoming. It is a pity that the championships could not have a division like that. For someone of my ability handicapping by chassis is irrelevant. To get close racing I would need everybody to be in the GP2 cars - now THAT would be a challenge.

Clubmans was closer to that (Unlimited Shift-r's with SnG) but had moderating - it's felt that moderation can help to drive home where mistakes have been made and most importantly why. We don't hand out points for fun or to wind people up, it's intended to encourage improvement and to remove people who are dangerous and spoil others races where the incident could have been avoided.
You won't find yourself barred from races for honest mistakes. Over the top aggression leading to repeated incidents is the sort of thing that'll lead to suspensions - and it's only happened once in UKGPL's history.
However we didn't have the numbers to run seperate Grads and Clubmans servers this time around.
Also ideally we need the numbers to have 3 65 championships, that way would give a better balence of driver skills per championship. At the mo laptimes are suprisingly close between Nov's and Am's but there seems to be quite a curve still with regards to laptime consistency, which might put people off/dishearten them in races as they move up. It's all relative though as you will improve, it just takes time is all.

As for Shift-R's in Am's then no I don't agree that would help.
As H says how would that make racing closer or encourage safer/more considerate driving?

I've been taken out on the first lap numerous times in the past, I've also had engines blow on me when comfortable leading even when I havn't made mistakes, sure it's annoying (to put it lightly) but that's racing. Am's is intended as the top level series running the 65's and surviving the race is as much a part of racing as winning  :)

Also the majority seem to prefer 50 minute races - Historics has been extended to 50mins recently due to post race chat/comments  :)

Ouch!     Like I said far be it for me. ::)

The bit about hanging back for a dice was tounge in cheek. ;D

OK I'll get back in my box now & not cause my Ams team mate further embarrasment. ;)

Norm H   

Mechanical failures & accidents in PRO also help vary the results & encourage us mere mortals. I had 2 wins last season in Ams (ahh, the glory days :D) which I suspect would not have been the outcome if the fastest drivers hadn't suffered DNFs. If we implemented shift-R in Am's the quick guys could reset, do a Stop & Go and still power their way back to the front at some circuits.

For me, the racing has been very competitive so far this season with quite a large group of us (class 2 if you like ;)) very closely matched.  

LOL. I wasn't having a go Norm, just trying to explain the reason behind the rules as it were  ;D

Al, it's not really a case of 'class 2's TBH. Tom's been very fast so far this season but has suffered some technical issues lately which are disguising his own speed slightly. As we move towards the faster circuits now I'm expecting it to get much closer at the front with even more people involved in battles for the top spots :yes:

In truth the divisions in 65s are not named appropriately and we are in the position where we need a handful of new and regular drivers which would give us a 3rd division.

Ams would then be the top with pro rules and the fastest drivers using trickier circuits, Novices would be the lowest division with the slower drivers and brand new drivers alike using probably mostly Papy tracks and there would be a division in between the two for the likes of me and people like Phil and Clutch as mentioned who can win Novice races and can learn the odd new track.

Sadly we are unlikely to get that influx of drivers and we have to stick to 2 divisions and there will always be some crossover between them. If people want to make the drop back to Novices they are welcome and will obviously get a slower car, but we always need to have some free space in Novices for new drivers to join.

I'm on the fence on this one.

Race length is my pet hate, but i can see the logic of no shift R, and it certainly makes it more realistic.

All i'd ask is, next season, can we rename 65 Amateurs, to '65 Pro'. Why? Well , we race under Pro rules, and being crowned 65 Professional Champion sounds way better than 65 Amatuer.  ;)

You have to be a Pro at this game whether its 65,66,69 or 67's in order to string a few laps together on Pro rules.

I appreciate that the suggestion to have Shift-R in Ams was tongue in cheek, but if you look at the results it would make no difference to the top spots ( unfortunately for me! :-\ ).

To win in Ams usually means running the whole race without any big mistakes. I can guarantee that ( except for 1 or 2 notable exceptions, and they know who they are  ::) ) if you leave the track somewhere and lose 10 secs getting back onto the grey stuff, you have lost the opportunity to mount a realistic challenge for a podium spot  :-[

I sympathise with those who have had to make the quick transition from "noobie Novice" through to the Pro ranks in a only a few seasons. I was fortunate enough to have found GPL on line when there were 4 divisions of 67's running.

Clubmans with unlimited Shift -R almost exclusively Pappy tracks
Division 2  with Shift -R mostly Pappy tracks
Division 1  Shift R with SnG ( I think?) plus pit stop handicaps and a mix of Pappy and add-on circuits
Masters Pro rules and almost all add-on tracks

I stalled for two seasons before being frogmarched, with my arm a long way up my back, out of Div 2 and into Div 1 and Masters with much kicking and screaming!!
The progression was in smaller steps, but the shock of losing the Shift-R took some getting used to and a whole different approach to racing. Survival became a much higher priority and looking after your engine also counted for a lot. But now I find that it all adds to the "complete" race feel of this sim....but maybe I had a priveleged upbringing in GPL  ::)

I will recruit my two sons (12 and 14). Is three people enough for a division? lol

I was not suggesting any change to the Ams or the Novices just saying that a series that was a little less intense would help. I know I won't improve without practice but being so slow (5 secs off the pace at Combe means I spend 90% of the time checking my mirrors and being VERY careful not to ruin anyone's race. I am not concerned about being banned per se but how can I learn any racecraft if I can't ever race anyone. I get two minutes or so where I make up places on the first lap by being very cautious (a la Combe) and then I get passed, do a few laps on my own and then start getting lapped which was a nightmare at Combe.

It's a bit disheartening. I have set a goal for this season of finishing one race ahead of somebody without that being as a result of Disco's and to improve my basic car control. If I can't get faster and more competitive I am never going to actually race. Might as well stick to training :( Difficult to attract new members if that is all we can offer.

Even though I am such a poor driver, I do have a competitive instinct. I KNOW that I should drive slow and steady but I see someone ahead and it is just too tempting to try and get that bit closer. That is why BREASTS is such good fun. I can try and compete. I fail but that is OK. In the formal championships I am worrying all the time. That is not conducive to learning good habits.

Not having a go - everyone has been great and I have had tips galore, but if we are to expand (and surely that would be a good thing) it would be useful to offer some racing that even tossers like me could have a go at.

I've been arguing for that for the last 2 seasons  ;D

Despite now being in charge of the Am's I've yet to have my way despite using the same logic you are  :ninja:

How about '65 Aliens' Champion could be the Little Green Man   :laugh:

I know I'm in danger of sounding like a stuck record Paul but I was there for a long time, felt like a milk cart amongst a bunch of Ferrari's. The best thing is just to keep at it and work to personal goals which, to start with, don't have to involve beating anyone. My first aim was to just get to the end (mind you I did start on PRO which was a baptism of fire) without causing too many problems. Don't stop racing in case you mess up a frontrunners race just work on not doing that as goal one. Then work on consistency (I seem to have built up a fairly good record at that even though I'm tempting fate saying it) and only then worry about overtakes/dicing. Yes it's boring as hell to start with but you need to acquire a Robert The Bruce mentality about it and you will slowly get there - possibly with a consistency that not everyone has.
I really do think you are unduly worrying that you lack the skill - even a dunce like me can eventually get some racing and possibly a win ;D
  
Ah well there's always next season Pro's boss  ;)

Mr Badblood

First thing to do IMO is race "the track" , ignore all the competition , concentrate on driving the track at your own speed let the faster guys get on with there own race , try to be smooth , dont mash the brakes or gas pedals , go for smooth corner entrance and exit speed rather than late braking and scrubbing off speed and missing the apex . Trust me , the speed will come.

For what its worth I passed my GPL drivers test in 67 Lotus at Monza , it took me C 6 months to get neg there, 5 months and 29 days trying to drive the wheels off , in the end smooth driving got the results .

Edit to say don't worry about being lapped of overtook , just drive the normal line , let the "other" guy worry about passing "you" .

P.S. (Must remember to head my own advice more these days)



 :)

  

My first neg was at Silvy after following THIS: http://forums.speedgeezers.net/index.php?showtopic=18387 (http://forums.speedgeezers.net/index.php?showtopic=18387).

Great stuff by Bernd Nowak.  Perhaps I need to follow that again a few hundred times to get me back in the mood!!

Good find Steve , was pleased to read the comments by Pete Gaimari (AKA Jamnut ) having trouble with the D/L ,( thought it was just me who was thick ).

Pete was fundemental in helping and inspiring loads of GPL 'ers on there way until he retired and took up fishing .  :)

 

How to open the replay 2010.11.23-AmsCombe.rar ?

Says its a compresssed file but cant get it to unzip  :-\

Ans on a postcard please  ::)

Google 'WINRAR'.
Failing that let me know and I'll replace it with a zip. I normally use zip's for the replays but for some reason the pc decided to compress into a rar without asking this time  ::)

or use 7zip , free software

http://www.7-zip.org/

"Racing under PRO rules is awesome, and SHIFT R is for pussies"

The above comment from an Amateur driver should have been censored in my opinion, its offensive. I for one thought the introduction of shift-r/stop & go in the Privateers and Novices was a mistake and still do. BUT the racing has been excellent in both of these championships, so well done whoever made that decision. 

I think the comment was a bit tongue in cheek.
For info the Novices has had Sh/R's since the start, the one only rule in Privateers was brought in to recognise those drivers may be a little less experienced then Works and give them a single chance of redemption should the worst happen.

I just thought I might add some fuel to the fire. I actually find the one Shift-R in Privateers makes me concentrate more and (possibly) drive better. The multiple Shift-R's in Novices is actually, I think, injurious to developing good habits.

Just my four pen'orth

Well. When I was writting it, I had small hangover and maybe I wasn't as eloquent as usually ;)

I do understand why Novices are racing under Int. rules, but in my opinion every other division should be run under Pro rules(that include Privateers). If we want to take our hobby serious, then racing under pro is only proper way to do it.

Which Dijon are we racing next week, 73 or 81?

Sorry for the late replay - I litterally havn't been on the pc since tuesday as I've been stuck in bed  :'(


As per the Am's registration thread (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=8350.0) we're racing at Dijon '81 (V2) as found here (http://gpltd.bcsims.com/?dis=D#13)  :)

Will chuck a race post up while I'm on here before retreating to the warm....

Mod report published - And a right old tricky one you buggers gave me to cut my teeth on!  ;D

Hopefully I've inputted it right, and there arn't any paints that there shouldn't be....

Well you were having quite an easy time on the modding front compared to Mike with the Novices ;) 

I think you came to the right conclusion, I know on the replay (especially the overhead shot) I could have given Goran more room but believe me that is much easier said than done on that corner.  I was as far right as I dare go, I've never practised going over that blind crest on anything other than the racing line.  It is much easier to take a wide line when the track is visible.

Anyway after this I won't be slowing down to let the leaders past me if I'm in a dice for position.  I won't block or intentionally get in the way but I will maintain my race pace so I don't compromise my own race.

Thanks for the Mod work Tim.

I was kind of interested to see what you would come up with, and I am totally OK with your ruling here. Of cause my grass driving the corner before the impact was my way of leaving Phil room so maybe he also should have used the grass but I do not complain, after all the pass went well didn't it?  ;D  But if I would be really honest, maybe it was me that should have backed off after all. However, if we had not been able to go on I am sure it would feel different so I will be a bit more careful next time.

Göran

The hardest part of the modding was as a result of Combe being my 'home' track - I've driven it so many times both in games and in real life that it's hard for me to remember how hard Quarry is to drivers who are still learning the course!

As all involved are happy then so am I  ;)

Phil I am of the opinion that maintaining your normal racing line and race pace is the correct thing to do ,any sudden change of pace or line can hinder a following car who is looking to pass , But it's the responsibilty of the overtaking car to make the pass cleanly   ::)

I don't think you can draw the line and say "I'll do this and that every time I happen to be in this and that situation". It's much more dynamic than that, much more unique. Each situation is slightly different as it presents to us during each race, every time.

Sometimes the leaders have to compromise their races and wait behind backmarkers, sometimes it's the opposite, but the main thing is to be predictable and not hold someone intentionally without a good reason. You have to remain adaptable though and not race blindly according to some pre-defined plan.

One thing that I think should be clear is that a backmarker is not supposed to race the leaders in any kind of way. That's why he's the backmarker and that's what blue flags indicate. Also think how it works out if the backmarker has a car with a more powerful engine and the leading cars have weaker ones (common thing in 65s for some reason), and he/she chooses to not ease off on the straights, then how is the leader supposed to make a pass when the only places time is gained is in corners?

You can also look at it from a positive side if you're fighting someone and you have the leader(s) coming up behind you. If you let them through without much resistance, you can then slot behind them and try to use the moment when your direct competitor is letting them by to make your own move on him/her, because it's most likely that he/she would've eased off or moved off the line while you'll be arriving at proper speed slotted behind the leader(s). I've seen this happen many times and it's a good race tactic.

I've witnessed that the alternative of ignoring the leaders and racing hard has many times led to panic, mistakes and worse outcome for either of the drivers. Not so often here in UKGPL where the standart and mutual respect are very high, but in other leagues.

There are dangers in easing off on the straight with a faster car approaching behind , and esp. with the tow effect .

Ive been caught out when following a car, ready to pass, and they have suddenly slowed to let me by almost causing me to  rear end them , (wouldn't want to do that to anyone, not even a Waza)  ;)

The same for moving off line can confuse a lapping car , causing collision danger .

IMO lifting off is best confined to when the lapper is alongside or braking a little earlier for the approaching corner . Also keeping normal speed and line can often be beneficial to the following car because of the tow effect .

Only my opinion of coarse but spoken with some experience of being lapped (well actually a whole bunch of being lapped experience )

To be honest , if there were a W/R for being lapped , I would have to be a close contender  ::)

Yes, Bernie, I've had the same issue too and it's very unpleasant, but what I meant was more along the line that when the leading car moves to the side to attempt a pass the backmarker could ease off a bit and not just keep driving like there's nobody. I'm not saying it happens a lot here in UKGPL, actually it doesn't and everyone's respectful most of the time, but I was commenting on Phil's statement that if he's racing somebody he won't lift up for leaders anymore.

The best place to let someone through remains on the exit of corners, with the backmarker taking the inside line and opening the ideal line, though I agree it compromises their pace at that moment.

BTW, you are one of the most reliable and predictable drivers when you're being lapped, Bernie, and I assume it comes from the fact that you've dealt with backmarkers on your own when you were leading races in other divisions and know what it's about, having been on both sides.

Yes that is exactly what happened in this case.  I took an inside line on the exit of the final turn to allow Tom (who was lapping me) a free run on the racing line.  However I was a little too accommodating and pulled over too early, consequently we were well past the start line and almost at the turn in point for T1 before Tom got past.  So I couldn't start accelerating before the turn in point for T1 which compromised my speed massively.  By then Goran (who I was racing with) had a clear run out of the final turn, the draft from Tom down the finish straight and was all over me by the time we got to Avon Rise.  You would need to look at the replay yourself to see what I mean.

Goran did nothing wrong, the situation only arose because I moved over too early (incidentally I hadn't been shown a blue flag before I moved over) and Tom was not held up at all.  So all I'm saying (which is really for you Hristo given that you are the one most likely to be lapping me ;)) is that next time I would have kept my to racing line and only yielded when I wasn't going to compromise my own race.

The trouble is, the best way to avoid compromising my own race is to allow the leaders past under braking which is much more dangerous.  Compromising my exit speed is not the thing to do in the 65s.  I'll try to let you by on the exit to corners but if you are really close should I risk moving to the inside line or should I stick to the racing line?  I expect you would prefer me to stick to the racing line.

Oh, well the trick with taking the inside line on exits to let someone through is only really useful in slower corners where there is heavy acceleration out of the corner. I wouldn't suggest it for fast corners and flat out kinks. I agree it's best you keep the line and speed, and maybe just lift off a bit when the leading car goes off the line to make a move. I never liked when a backmarker would slow down on a straight or a fast corner while they're still ahead of me, or worse - change direction when I'm just behind them.

As for letting them past under braking, if you just keep your line and normal braking point (and braking effort), then the leading car has no right to object in case you happen to brake a bit earlier or carry a bit less speed, they should anticipate that and either make a move if they're close enough, or just slot behind you. The only issue with this is when there is a vast difference in speed, but that would only be the case if we run a mixed grid of Amateurs and Novices. The important thing is not to panic and to keep your eyes on the road rather than on your mirrors, and just drive normally.

Again though, it depends on the situation and it's always slightly different every time, so it's important to be as much aware as possible of what's going on around you.