SimRacing.org.uk

The last of the Amateurs competitors have now dragged themselves away from the plethora of pubs in the West country and staggered aboard the Dover/Calais ferries.
Assuming they escape the clutches of the duty-free section their next stop is Mustard country only a (relatively) short drive from the Champagne region, so plently of Mumm will be on offer to the competitors here!  ;D

Race List = IGOR
Server = UKGPL_T7_2
IP address = 62.149.202.168
Race date = 07-12-2010
Time = 21:00 UK time
Track = Dijon Prenois 1981 (V2) (http://gpltd.bcsims.com/?dis=D#13)

Variant = 65F1
Damage Model = PRO
Qualifying time = 35 minutes. Don't start until 30 mins left on clock to allow everyone to join.
Race length = 50 minutes (laps 33)
Password: see above (#post_event_password)

65 Patch: The 2.02 Release of the 65mod can be used.

Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R;group=276;theme=6)
The track can be downloaded from : Here (http://gpltd.bcsims.com/?dis=D#13)
Add-on’s available at : No addons that I'm aware of

Please be in IGOR UKGPL chatroom by 8:50 pm UK Time

Reserve drivers should not join the server(s) until there are only 30 minutes of qualifying left. Please restrict chat to pit messages. Moderating will be by reported incidents only, however the moderators reserve the right to review any incident with a particular emphasis on lap one. The aim is to review the race the following weekend so incident reports should be submitted within five days of the race (ie the following Friday). We're hopeful most incidents can be resolved amicably and recommend a days deep breath with a replay review before posting. A sorry in the forum won't be taken as an automatic admission of guilt by the moderators.
The race will be run on PRO Damage.

NOTE: Please ensure you join the correct server, due to the way we import if you start the race on the wrong server your result will not count.

Chassis assignments can be found HERE (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=8480.0)

**NOTE**
Whichever chassis a driver begins race 1 with is the chassis he must use for the remainder of the season unless a change has been agreed with the moderator.


About the Track

Dijon-Prenois is a 3.801 km (2.361 mile) motor racing circuit located in Prenois, near Dijon, France. The undulating track is noted for its fast, sweeping bends.

Built in 1972, Dijon-Prenois hosted the Formula One French Grand Prix five times, and the Swiss Grand Prix once in 1982. The first F1 race was run in 1974 on the circuit's original 3.289 km (2 mile) layout; with lap times under the one minute mark, there was an extreme problem with congested traffic between the race leaders and the back-markers. Therefore, in 1975 an extension was added to lengthen the circuit, and many corners were reprofiled to allow the return of F1 to Dijon in 1977.
The 1979 French Grand Prix featured a memorable battle for second place in the final laps between Gilles Villeneuve's Ferrari and René Arnoux's Renault, which was finally won by Villeneuve. The race itself was won by Jean-Pierre Jabouille in the other Renault.

Although Formula One has not returned to Dijon since 1984, the circuit continues to be used today mostly for minor, predominantly local races, however Dijon specialises in running classis and historic race events and has also hosted rounds of the FIA GT championship. These include club level events and Motorcycle racing.

You can view René and Gille's battle on youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl2tIFxSEGA), it remains for me one of the greatest battles in F1  :angel:

Dijon  :) Its Mustard  ;D

After my mess up of thinking we're going to race Pic du Midi, I did some laps around Dijon, working on a setup and trying to figure out the track. I've only raced it with 67 cars before, so it feels quite different in the BT7. Here's a lap that I recorded and as it turns out - my current PB:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRRxZeoKEaM

I'll write a track guide later and post it on the blog, along with a replay and the setup for those who need them.

EDIT: Here is the guide:

http://racingleague.co.cc/hikiwaza/track-guides/an-onboard-lap-around-dijon-prenois-81-in-brabham-bt7/

I have question to management of UKGPL  ;)

When driving on this track, should we try to keep car between white lines, or can we drive like Hristo? To me, this surface outside white lines isn't part of actual race track and we shouldn't use it to gain time.

Thanks H for the replay. Now I am only like 2 sec slower than you, in the BT11 that is. Lucky for me the race is not until Tuesday.


I do not think it would be possible to monitor if someone goes outside the white lines so I say we allow it. After all it is the same for everyone.

Göran

I think it is ok to use the wider track as the racing groove actually runs out over that area in several places, and as Goran said....how the heck are you going to check where everyone takes there cars???

Hristo's video and description of the track is very good and he certainly intends to use all the width available to him ( and anything else he can find!!)

Well, you're wrong because they even used those parts of the track in real life. What's with mindless following of white lines, this isn't modern F1, why bother? Actually even in modern F1 there are tracks where they go off the white lines if there's tarmac/concrete there (Singapoore comes to mind).

Why does it bother you that much personally, it's not like it requires any skill to use the whole track width, anyone can do it and it's the safer and easier way to drive around...

And can you really keep within the white lines all the time, especially when following another car closely and you can't see the road, or you go for a pass and accidently cut across? I don't think so...

Evil is right, I intend to drive as I do on the video, so DQ me of you want after the race.  ;)

Oh dear over to FMG LOL
In all seriousness we have looked at the issue vis a vis our rules and the background is UKGPL have followed the GPL Rank rules on world records. Every claim to a world record lap has to be supported by a full replay and is allegedly examined frame by frame to ensure that 2 wheels are always on the tarmac. Therefore "clipping" a corner by putting the 2 inside wheels on the grass is deemed acceptable and is entirely at the risk of the driver, if this results in contact with another car because of the loss of direction/control, then we have rules to cover that.
I think this would cater for the situation above. That said Division Moderators can bring in a specific ruling per track/event if deemed prudent.

PS: I have taken the liberty of quoting Clive as he put it very succinctly.

Well, I am putting no more than 2 wheels in the gravel.  ;) In fact, I would prefer not to step into it at all, if possible. It's not the fastest way around IMO, but it's safe to do it when necessary.

I didn't know that.


This will be little OT, but: In modern F1 you must keep between white lines. Drivers don't do that because nobody is giving them penalties for doing that. If F1 had the same marshals as they have in GT1 series, there would be quite a lot of penalties ;)


It doesn't bother me at all. I just want to know official position of UKGPL authorities about this problem, so I could adjust my driving. It wouldn't be the first time when one of the Mods gave us a official position about cutting(like at Pebble Beach)


I haven't done to many laps at this track in GPL, but in RF I had no problems :P


I just wanted to know if this part of track can be used or not, so nobody would be surprised with DQ afther the race.

I'm in so much trouble... I felt like the lap was on the edge the whole time and it only was a 1:29.40 in the Cooper.

HELP!

I can't help you more than with what I already wrote in great detail on the Waza blog, Jethro!  ::)

Merge my lap with yours and see where you lose time exactly, I guess.

Well, after some hard graft and consistency (down to 1:27.73) it's as I suspected. 2 tenths in S1, 1 second in S2, another second in S3 and about even (how?) in S4.

Only difference is the lines through a couple corners and you get on the power so much earlier. I physically can't do that otherwise I just spin. :/

Lots more practice I guess. Tomorrow evening's gonna be busy.

To get on the power earlier, you need to have the car going at a lower speed at the moment of stepping onto the throttle, otherwise the tires can't cope with the demands and lose grip. So brake hard but on time and turn-in/trailbrake early, so you can have the car turning around already on corner entry and focus on playing with the throttle once you get off the brake. I'm willing to bet you carry too much speed into the corner and that's why you can't accelerate early, and your car is probably not pointing in the right direction. Also, the initial moment of throttle application has to be smooth and not sudden.

As for sectors, I suppose the last sector is only 1 corner or something and being a smooth long corner you're probably good at it (judging from your Kya/Zandy performance).

Due to the difficulty of modding the race I'm going to say go with useing the concrete/tarmac sections of track - As The Other Tim says we have rules to cope with accidents caused by people doing this and contacting people.
I think that as with Pebble beach I'd rather stick to the '2 wheels on/in the track' rule but as it'd make moderation a nightmare just don't take the monkey  ;)

As for disqualifications : If Hristo wins this one I think it's fair to DQ him on the basis he gained an unfair advantage, no?  ;D

Ah well, 'another' early bath.

Apologies to Phil. We made contact a few laps in. Him on the outside of T1 and me on the inside. We gave each other plenty of room i thought but somehow contact happended and he came off worst (i'm assuming contact happened). Phil's car was warping pretty badly so i knew it would be tricky to pass but it seemed like we had plenty of room. Apologies if required.

Managed to catch Al Heller but was starting to struggle. Prib showed by front tyres to have an Average tyre temp way higher than i usually have and so it was causing huge slides. It caught me out eventually and i spun just as i'd finally reeled him in. A shame, but poor set up. i should have spotted that.

After that it was just a case of staying in front of Bernie who was 20secs back, but after i got a Pit In sign for an 'accidental' short cut i could see the leaders approaching.

I could have plodded round on my own for the next 40 minutes and picked up some points just for finishing but couldn't really be bothered if i'm honest and its not the sort of track where i'd feel confortable allowing the leaders to lap me as its tight in places. I must admit, as i pulled over to disconnect i felt envious watching the same 3 or 4 fast guys all within a second of each other lap me. Looked like great fun.

They're still racing now, so i'll offer my usual early congratulations to Itchov on another great win.

At long last we now go to a track that isn't a BT7 stronghold.. i hope

I was a bit worried about my connection so I tried to give you plenty of room but on my replay there was massive contact.  I'm pretty sure it was down to my connection.  If it was you should have got past totally unscathed because the warp wouldn't of affected you as you were on the inside.  My on the other hand was catapulted 30 feet into the air and landed on the roll bar. 

Pity I really liked that track but not your fault clutch.

Saw your spinning lotus Phil , twas the only entertainment I had during the whole race , apart from being lapped that is .
Pretty boring stuff , way off the pace as usual , couldnt come to terms with Dijon think it may have been gears , though more likely the driver , I think my biggest problem (there were many small ones ) was no speed out of final turn so dog slow down the straight.

Grats again to H (hows about a blood transfusion mate ) and all them what finished .

 

Sorry about that - I thought I had waypoints disabled but couldn't be sure due to the race list not being up  :(

I know it's a bit late now but you could have ignored the mesage and continued. Had you reported it after the race I could have re-instated your position when the results were finalised (I'd have to check the cause of D/Q first, and then figure out how! but it can be done)

My own race started well enough leap frogging from 4th to 2nd off the line and I settled in quite happily behind Hristo with Clive rapidly jumping Goran to take 3rd.
For the first lap or so it was fairly tight with me staying as close as poss to Hristo and Clive all over my own gearbox.
After a couple of laps I'd lost a tiny bit of distance to Hristo but gained a few hundred yards on clive which was making things easier - It was becoming clear that I was unlikely to pressure H much unless his tyres gave out early.
I therefore chose to work as hard as possible to use the slipstream to loose Clive - this eventually worked and after opening the gap to 150yds on the main straight clive lost my draft and started going backwards finally.
All was well for a few more laps until I made a mistake, this disrupted my rythem and overheated my rears which allowed Clive to regain the draft - Without Hristo to tow me along the straight this allowed Clive to get on my rear in no time.
Hristo then rejoined us and the 3 of us set off in tight formation, me desperate not to loose ground on Clive.
My still over-warm tyres didn't help this and resulted in Clive pulling away from me after a while, he in turn lost Hristo's draft shortly before they lapped Bernie - Clive appeared to loose some time in his passing maneuver, which combined with my drafting Bernie along the entire S/F straight allowed me to catch right back up.
2 laps later and with Goran right behind me I lost the rear into T1 when I got the transition from concrete to tarmac wrong while trail braking - I span off and handed 3rd to Goran.

I rejoined and went like the clappers - eventually my tyres returned to a sane temp (Again!) and I could start turning decent laps. This allowed me to stop Pod's own attempts at gaining on me and eventually resulted in my regaining a couple of seconds on Goran (After the spin I'd reach 5 seconds down - this was reduced to roughly 3 seconds by the flag).

Again the results suprised me somewhat as I'd chosen Dijon as a 'power' track*, perhaps Tom would have helped vindicate my choice had he been here with his BRM although Goran's pace in the BT11 seemed good enough to challenge for a win in qualifiying.....


Due to my expectations in the race results (Which were wrong again!) I'd chosen to go with an experimental setup featuring positive rear toe ;D Thinking I don't have a chance at victory so what does it matter!....
It worked perfectly as intended but made the entry to T1 tricky during the transition across the concrete/tarmac under braking which was to eventually cost me 3rd. I can't see many circuits where this setup will help me but it's deffinatly one I intend to use again when it gives gains  :)

Well raced everyone.  :)
Well done on a podium for Black Night, Goran.  ;D
And I supose a well done to those fiendish Waza's too.  :P


* When the mid season review goes up I'll appreciate honest input into my track choices this season - I thought I'd chosen a good spread of power Vs Handling/technical circuits but going by comments after races it looks like I misjudged - So please use the mid season to help me address that for next time  :)
(If only to stop Hristo winning again ;) )  ;D

Glad to be of help  :)



You could try taking Hristo's steering wheel off

 ;D ;D ;D

Well this race went much better for me than I had been expecting after some pretty poor private practice sessions ;D

Initially I could not get the Coop below 1:29 no matter what I did and how Hristo was posting 1:26's was a total mystery even after watching his video!!!

So, I concentrated on laps with race fuel and slight changes to the lines I was taking through some of the corners,  although they felt slower they actually began to trim a few tenths off the lap times. Eventually I was doing low 1:27's on full fuel and decided that was as good as it was going to get.
My main concern for the race was that there really is only one overtaking place, at the end of the S/F straight. In an underpowered Cooper against Fezzas and BRM's etc after such a long straight life might get a bit difficult???
An early lap netted a decent qually lap on race fuel but soon Hristo totally eclipsed that time followed by Goran and then Tim. 4th was not too bad I figured but Al and a few others were very close behind and the last few minutes of qually could see me drop a few more places  :-\. Time for Banzai Boost.
dumped a load of fuel and went out again with about 2 mins to go and hooked up a great lap to get a 1:26 dead and sneak in front of Goran and behind my team mate on the grid............nice  ;D
Then I totally flunked the start and dropped 2 or 3 place on the run to T1 I held a straight line down the inside and a tight run around the kerb to emerge from T1 in 3rd spot behind 2 BT7's, driven by the usual suspects.

With so few overtaking opportunities, I decided to sit back and follow Hristo and Tim for a few laps and see how things panned out. Gradually the three of us edged away from the chasing pack and there was nothing but fresh air in my mirrors, but I was hanging on to the front two.

Things seemed pretty evenly balanced and I could see that Tim was trying hard to put pressure on Hristo but not quite managing to get close enough. The problem with this track is that overdriving and small errors will cost you a lot of time which caused the gaps between us to change every lap.
At about half distance I could see that Hristo was just beginning to sneak away and that Tim was really pushing his BT7 to try and hold on. As a result he was running just a little wide on some corners and clipping the gravel, so I thought that it was time to apply some Waza team pressure  ::) and started pushing a little harder. At first I was trying too hard and simply allowed Tim to extend the gap, so I relaxed a little and sure enough the gap came down a few tenths at a time until I was into his slipstream.
I guess it took me about 3 laps to set up the pass as it was not just the exit from the last corner that had to be right, but more like the exit from the tight right hander in the dip half way around the lap and then nailing all the corners from there on, until I emerged onto the straight right on his gearbox. I wanted to avoid any contact at T1 so I pulled out early and got alongside Tim way before the bend. Tim was forced to fo wide around the outside and I hugged the kerb UNTIL... I had a moment of lag or frame stutter (or something!!)and momentarily I thought I was heading in Tim's direction and all was going to end in tears.
But normal service was quickly resumed and I was able to take 2nd spot and gradually tease a 100mtr gap whereupon my teammate (accidentally because there are no team orders  ::)) granted me the use of his slipstream and we eased away from Tim.
The only slight prob to this Waza demonstration drive was lapping Bernie. Hristo caught and passed him on a convenient short straight section, but I found myself caught behind Bernie on one of the bends. No fault of Bernie's, everyone has gotta be somewhere on the track?!!. That dropped me back within sight of Tim and allowed Hristo to get beyond slipstream range. Just after that Tim must have had an off somwhere and I was able to cruise home in a very unexpected 2nd spot.

Grats to all who finished and Hristo.
BTW I did suffer some Lag or disruption at several points in the race and at one point thought I was going to be disco'd did anyone else have similar probs??

Didn't notice any lag/freezes at my end Clive - the meters were missing though (iGOR related aswell??) so I couldn't keep abrest of general network quality though....

Must admit to getting a little despondent about my relative lack of pace this season. Not sure if it was me or the BRM that was struggling more through these long twists & turns - but with no other BRMs in the field I had nothing to compare to so I'm assuming it was a combination of both. Quallied near the back but got a perfect start that catapulted me several places & I found myself running 5th just behind Goran for the opening laps. Couldn't keep up with Goran's pace & anyway I soon had Bartosz's Lotus harrying me to get past - a good battle but I was finding the BRM on full tanks a real handful & Bart got through & swiftly pulled away. Next up was Clutch who was catching me steadily but then span just as he was poised to attack. That let a recovering & very quick Jethro onto my tail & I'm pleased to say we had a 15-20 lap scrap & swapped places several times... with no incident :o I could pull just enough down the main straight to stay ahead into T1 but for the rest of the lap the Coop was all over me - Jethro was pushing hard to get past but drove well, leaving room when I was in his blind spot & patiently waiting for his chance :thumbup1: JW finally got ahead for good when I outbraked myself a bit into T1 & he scooted off leaving me to plod round to the finish in a lonely 7th.

Congrats to H - that's 5 BT7 wins out of 5, also WD to Clive & Goran.

That battle was classic... sooo many times I got in a perfect position to pass then Al just put his foot to the floor on the straight and I had to slot in to keep up!!! Keeping up in the corners was easy enough, not running into the back of somebody is harder than it looks mind....

Must admit, the Cooper was a good car but nowhere near Hristo's pace despite the setup being identical save for gears in the race. After slotting into position on the end of the first lap I found a rapidly approaching rear-end of a car in the crux of the braking point for T1. Cue me desperately trying to avoid hitting the poor swine (Goran) and a trip across the T1 gravel.

Slotted in behind Clutch and Phil, who's battle ended acrimoniously when Clutch appeared to ease Phil out of room then warp took over. I can give you guys my replay clip if it'd help. :)

Clutch then started to mount his attack on Al when Bartosz got ahead, then after a few laps he spun the corner after the Parabolique, leaving me nowhere to go and t-boning him - sorry Clutch.

After that, the replay speaks for itself. Al could keep ahead on the straight but I was miles quicker in the corners. Mate, if you get that car balanced in the corners you'd have been up with Hristo on pace.

Good fun, really enjoyable racing. :)

I had an screen freeze in qual. Luckily it didn't happened in race ;)

I think my race was lost at the start. I've just released clutch to early, revs dropped and Al easily passed me. Soon I've catch him and we had good battle. I knew that I have to pass Al, because leaders were running away, and I saw in my mirrors that Clutch is getting closer. Afther few attempts to pass BRM I finally made it and started chasing Goran. Unfortunately he was already 9 seconds in front of me. I was hoping that leaders were fighting witch eachother, this would slow them down and maybe allow me to catch them. That didn't happened and gap between me and Goran was encrising.

Some laps later I've noticed that FMG have problems and I was catching him. I was pushing very hard, but soon Tim found his pace. In the end I've finished 5th, witch is ok for me. THX for good racing and cya next time.

I couldn't quite match my PB (well double PB because I did 2 25.5s in offline practice) during Qualifying, but my best lap was still enough to take pole in front of the sudden flat 26 done by Evil!

For a change I had a good start and just managed to hold onto 1st, but didn't realize it was Tim who was on the inside of T1 and not Evil. After making sure there's nobody on my side after the first couple of corners, I tried to go a bit cautiously and let the car speak to me, becaue I've not driven it on fuel tanks yet and was not sure what to expect from the handling.

This allowed Tim to slot behind and catch some glimpses of slipstream for a few laps, and I was wondering if the other car behind me that I could see in the mirrors was Evil or not. There were moments where I thought Tim would be making an attack any moment, but he (and the rest) were always dropping back about half a second in the last sectors. From what I could see in my mirrors they were just pushing too hard and drifting wide in those right-handers, and that really compromised their acceleration. Keeping it tight and smooth seemed to be the key, even though it felt slower.

Eventually I managed to pull away from Tim and once he was completely off the slipstream I could increase the gap to 3-4 seconds. I think around at the same time as Evil apparently passed Tim I had my spin at the hairpin (no, it wasn't on purpose to help Evil as you think!). The undulation in the middle of the corner caught me out as I applied a bit too much power and besides, the tires were getting a bit too hot for comfort at that point already.

Fortunately I managed to turn around and accelerate just as they were coming out of the corner behind me, so I remained in the lead, but only just! Once I realized it's Evil behind and given the heat in my tires, I decided to ease off a little bit and provide some slipstream. There was a 3rd benefit in that which I only realized at the end of the race and that was fuel consumption. Had I not slowed down for a number of laps in the beginning and in the middle of the race, I would've most likely ran out of fuel. As it was, I crossed the line just when it was about to go off, so good timing there!

Grats to Evil for making it a great 1-2 for Hiki-Waza, SHE would be pleased!

As for tracks choice, I still think this is a power track, but too many people seem to overdrive the faster cars in corners (especially from middle of the corner onwards) and lose any possible advantage they could get on the straights.

What the.... just noticed me and FMG got the same fastest lap to within 1 thousandth of a second!!! :o

And then you try to convince us you suck in the Cooper!  ::)

Exactly  ;)

Don't think I havn't been watching your times/races this season to check wether you really are as slow as you claim in the Coop - you're still easily in the top half of lap times on circuit where you survive more than a lap  :P

I'd have had to do something by now if you really were that slow  ;D

I suppose you just don't practice and prepare properly, Jethro.

Despite the fact I choose the tracks I actually only practice for an hour immediatly prior to each race so can hardly claim to prepare properly either  ;D

I think Jethro just needs to concentrate on his consistency and recognise when he can and can't push harder. Sometimes you just don't have the pace, recognaising that and accepting it can make the difference between a comfy 3rd/4th and crashing out through trying too hard in my experience :)

It's a matter of experience though. I don't need to practice much either, sometimes not at all, but Jethro's obviously lacking that experience and would benefit greatly from a serious focused practice run.

I practised more for Dijon than any race this season thus far, and was not comfortable with the car at any point, except in the race.

Not to mention I think in that one I had the most monumental draft thanks to Al's Bourne supremacy!

I do! I hate the blasted thing. I can't push it like I could the BT11 at all. It's such a temperamental underpowered thing that I feel almost constantly on the limit but not going any quicker. I try and brake later but it doesn't help much.

I'm finding, like the Kyalami BREASTS race we did a while back, that few tracks I can dial into first time and keep on the money. This place almost suited me once I got into a nice rhythm, but the majority of tracks on the Amateurs calendar this season have been very, um, tricky to effectively set up for.

AHAAA! There's your flaw, but haven't I said that already numerous times? You won't gain time with an underpowered car by braking later. You need to compensate for its lack of power by carrying more speed into the fast corners and by having more speed on corner exit out of the slow and medium speed ones. And I don't get why you dislike the Cooper's handling, it's very precise, nimble and forgiving. You're probably pushing too much and sliding around too much. The lack of power means that when you do that you lose a lot of speed, because the engine cannot overcome the grip of the tires to keep the car going into the direction you want.

Mod report published.

Appologies for the massive delay on this one, as many of you will know by now I was in the process of being made redundant at about this time so was slightly distracted.
Not a great excuse I admit, but there you go. At least the outcome has no effect on points hauls so it's of no real consequence  :)

Nice job, Tim.  :)