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UKGPL => UKGPL Races => Topic started by: FullMetalGasket on January 08, 2011, 03:27:53 PM +0000



Title: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Brno (1965-74) - Jan 11
Post by: FullMetalGasket on January 08, 2011, 03:27:53 PM +0000
The Christmas break is over, leaving our brave contenders with no choice other than to continue on Eastward to the small Czech town of Brno for round 6 of the Championship - Beware the stiff drinks!

Race List = IGOR
Server = UKGPL_T7_2
IP address = 62.149.202.168
Race date = 11-01-2011
Time = 21:00 UK time
Track = Brno 1965 (http://gpltd.bcsims.com/?limit=10&author=&country=&type=&kind=&state=&sort=&show_results=0&show_gplrank=&intr=&sbtd=brno65&menu=Show_Letters&send=Search)

Variant = 65F1
Damage Model = PRO
Qualifying time = 35 minutes. Don't start until 30 mins left on clock to allow everyone to join.
Race length = 50 minutes (laps 10)
Password: see above (#post_event_password)

65 Patch: The 2.02 Release of the 65mod can be used.

Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R;group=276;theme=6)
The track can be downloaded from : Here (http://gpltd.bcsims.com/?limit=10&author=&country=&type=&kind=&state=&sort=&show_results=0&show_gplrank=&intr=&sbtd=brno65&menu=Show_Letters&send=Search)
Add-on’s available at : No addons that I'm aware of

Please be in IGOR UKGPL chatroom by 8:50 pm UK Time

Reserve drivers should not join the server(s) until there are only 30 minutes of qualifying left. Please restrict chat to pit messages. Moderating will be by reported incidents only, however the moderators reserve the right to review any incident with a particular emphasis on lap one. The aim is to review the race the following weekend so incident reports should be submitted within five days of the race (ie the following Friday). We're hopeful most incidents can be resolved amicably and recommend a days deep breath with a replay review before posting. A sorry in the forum won't be taken as an automatic admission of guilt by the moderators.
The race will be run on PRO Damage.

NOTE: Please ensure you join the correct server, due to the way we import if you start the race on the wrong server your result will not count.

Chassis assignments can be found HERE (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=8480.0)

**NOTE**
Whichever chassis a driver begins race 1 with is the chassis he must use for the remainder of the season unless a change has been agreed with the moderator.


About the Track

Brno was originally founded as a race circuit in 1930, the original course running counter-clockwise for some 29.1Km (18 miles) through 9 towns/villages.
The inaugeral race was won by Lous Chiron in a Bugatti type 51 in 1931.
The circuit maintained this layout until 1937 when War brought racing to a close.
In 1949 Brno re-opened - now running clockwise and at a shorter length of 17.2Km (10.7 Miles) passing through only 6 towns/villages this time.
In 1964 the circuit was shortened again to 13.9Km (8.6 Miles) by cutting Zebetin from the route. In 1967 Mike Spence entered a BRM P83 in a race here - No other (then) current F1 teams were known to have raced here.
In 1975 the circuit was again shortened down to a mere 10.9Km (6.77 Miles) in order to avoid running through Pisarky, Novy Liskovec, and Bohunice, it also removed a large section of the run through Kohoutovice. This layout remained until 1987 when the road course was finally closed in order to move the racing onto the newly purpose built race circuit situated just off the original course, between Ostrvacice and Zebetin were the races continue to this day.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Brno (1965-74) - Jan 11
Post by: bernie on January 08, 2011, 09:27:31 PM +0000
thought we would be doing bruno49 as raced previously ?


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Brno (1965-74) - Jan 11
Post by: Hristo Itchov on January 08, 2011, 09:43:49 PM +0000
thought we would be doing bruno49 as raced previously ?

Nope, this is correct, it's the shorter Brno. We've had a chat about both tracks some time back, before the Historic race at '49 layout.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Brno (1965-74) - Jan 11
Post by: bernie on January 08, 2011, 11:34:52 PM +0000
shoot ! looks like I'll be getting lapped at least twice then  :-\


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Brno (1965-74) - Jan 11
Post by: Hristo Itchov on January 09, 2011, 12:49:15 AM +0000
shoot ! looks like I'll be getting lapped at least twice then  :-\

Well if you know '49 you shouldn't have much to learn for this one. I haven't learned it myself either yet, so we start even.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Brno (1965-74) - Jan 11
Post by: bernie on January 09, 2011, 12:29:34 PM +0000
Hristo I was refaring to being a shorter lap distance .

Therefore,  shorter lap for same 50 min race = more laps per race .

Or more opertunity for this old git to get buzzed by you raw meat eater types  :)



P.S. what type of sausage would you recommend  ;D




 


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Brno (1965-74) - Jan 11
Post by: Turkey Machine on January 09, 2011, 09:39:23 PM +0000
Out for this one, almost certainly. Unless I can get some serious practice in tomorrow evening and internet is sorted.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Brno (1965-74) - Jan 11
Post by: kinghiro on January 10, 2011, 11:29:27 AM +0000
really easy track to learn if you know the 1949. did couple of hours  practice and managed a 4.39 in the BRM.a couple of secs faster than the swede of course. just had to tell it now since my job called and put me up to work that evening so good luck to you all.(volunteered actually but loads of extra cash cause of late schedule change. what if I said no to that and then end my race in a tree....lol)so ..anyone up for a practice race like 6 o clock uk time?:)..need server to be up though


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Brno (1965-74) - Jan 11
Post by: EvilClive on January 10, 2011, 10:02:16 PM +0000
I believe we have arrived at what is known as "a power circuit"  !!!!  Those straights seem to go all the way to China!! and back again.  :-\

I shall be employing the waza accessory known as the "snee kee bun jeet ohrope" wherever possible.  ;D


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Brno (1965-74) - Jan 11
Post by: bernie on January 11, 2011, 02:26:36 PM +0000
Some one has chopped about 10 miles off the track , painted some white lines , re laid the tarmac,   got shut of all those luverly cobbles and added some brake markers here and there.

otherwise its the same Bruno and I still get lost at least once per lap  ::)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Brno (1965-74) - Jan 11
Post by: FullMetalGasket on January 11, 2011, 08:05:22 PM +0000
Have put T7 up as a practice server - will shut it down about 10 mins before the race :)


I believe we have arrived at what is known as "a power circuit"  !!!!  Those straights seem to go all the way to China!! and back again.  :-\

Why do you think I picked the '65 version  ;D
We'd all die of old age on the 49 varient in a 65'er  :D


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Brno (1965-74) - Jan 11
Post by: Hristo Itchov on January 11, 2011, 10:20:06 PM +0000
What a total waste of time! First all the delay with the bad grid, then Clutch just had squeeze me right at the edge of the track when I made my pass, then he had to take such big risks as to eventually go off in attempt to pass me back at T1, forcing me to avoid him and take myself out. Can't you just realize when you're stepping way over your limit and back off?  ::) A big engine was the only thing which kept you in front for so long, so why not stick to that advantage only...


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Brno (1965-74) - Jan 11
Post by: bernie on January 11, 2011, 10:26:53 PM +0000
Not much better here , clobbered evil after he spun then clobbered Fulvio doing a spin turn t get back on track , soz Fulvio  :-[


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Brno (1965-74) - Jan 11
Post by: Phil Thornton on January 11, 2011, 10:31:34 PM +0000
Evil

I think the first false start was because of a bad track.ini file.  The following would put the 9th and 10th qualifiers ahead of the polesitter (and the flagman).

stall_0 = 13927.80  3.00
stall_1 = 13927.80  0.00
stall_2 = 13927.80 -3.00
stall_3 = 13918.96  1.50
stall_4 = 13918.96 -1.50
stall_5 = 13910.12  3.00
stall_6 = 13910.12  0.00
stall_7 = 13910.12 -3.00
stall_8 = 13951.28  1.50
stall_9 = 13951.28 -1.50

That is probably what happened.

Would be interesting to have a fun race with a reverse grid where stall_0 (i.e the polesitter) is at the back.

Anyway race was a bit of a disaster for me.  I lost focus and rhythm with all the grid problems ended up crashing out :(


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Brno (1965-74) - Jan 11
Post by: fpolicardi on January 11, 2011, 10:51:21 PM +0000
Not much better here , clobbered evil after he spun then clobbered Fulvio doing a spin turn t get back on track , soz Fulvio  :-[
No Bernie it was all Evil's fault  :P
I slowdown as much as I could when I saw you spinning, but managed to give a little pat to Evil that GPL enphasized, then I restarted while you were doing burn out and my engine blew  :(
Cya the next


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Brno (1965-74) - Jan 11
Post by: EvilClive on January 11, 2011, 11:05:34 PM +0000
Sorry guys for the carnage. But I had to back off suddenly, in that long downhill right hander to avoid contact with another car and as a result went sideways and became a pinball. I forget how many cars clipped me, and how often I hit the barriers, but I thought my race was over.
Miraculously everything was OK when the dust settled and I set off after the rest of them. Sorry that it took Fulvio and Bernie out of the race :-\


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Brno (1965-74) - Jan 11
Post by: Clutch4 on January 11, 2011, 11:34:26 PM +0000
This was the track i'd been waiting for all season. I love Brno 49 so was happy for this version to be part of the season. As most of my Ams races are boring, solo affairs, i thought at least i could enjoy driving round a real racers circuit.

As it turned out, this race was, (shock horror) entertaining.

I was in the lead (undeserved) on the first start - always helps to be able to see the flag man when the 2 front runners can't!!

2nd start was Ok and i settled into 5th and knew i had the pace to climb higher. Hristo was behind me and after we swapped postions on the long start / finish straight i entered the first village. Unfortunately, (and i've never lost it before here) my rear wheel clipped the curb and i spun out. I don't think i hit Hristo, but i think my spinning car may have distracted him and he crashed out. My car appeared to be in Ok condition, so i continued. Apologies H.

Al Heller was 8 seconds ahead and i suspected i could maybe take a few seconds out of him but a lazy spin by me on entering the last village put him 15+ seconds ahead and i knew i'd have to settle for 4th.

The rest of the race was spent defending against Evil. I tried to be firm but fair by kissing all the apexes at the expense of outright speed.

After Al crashed out on the last lap i was in heaven with a podium, but a cautious entry into the last corner on the last lap allowed Evil to scrape by and the slip stream didn't come to my rescue. Another 100metres and i've have clawed it back, but the cream always rises to the top and he deserved it, though i must admit, the gear stick on my G25 6-shifter hindered me on many a braking & acceleration area by not connecting and leaving me in Neutral with zero traction. Ah well - a bad workman blames his tools.

If i'm honest, i'm gutted, but my Ams races have been so horrendously boring since i joined that it was good to go to a circuit that was enjoyable and to have company for most of it.

 ;)

 


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Brno (1965-74) - Jan 11
Post by: FullMetalGasket on January 12, 2011, 12:10:41 AM +0000
Right, results are up. I've manually added the qualifying times and they're all correct just to 2 decimal places rather than 3 as is the usual case.
I messed up fulvios qualifying time so will prod the admin over how to fix that, although he does still have the correct start position :)


Massive appologies for the Grid mess-up. I didn't notice the numbers in two of the entries in the track ini - pretty much as in the example Phil gave.
Embarrased barely covers it so I hope you can all forgive me, a really simple but stupid mistake  :ninja:


My own race was a totally unexpected one as again I was expecting to be out horsepowered!
After Goran got a bit untidy in the twisty bits about 2/3rds of the way in on L1 I pulled alongside and he unexpectedly gave me room so I went for it  ;D
I foolishly left him too much room myself and as a result pinballed through the following 5 corners going from grass bank to grass bank before finally regaining the black bit for good!
Goran lost some time backing off for my potential accident and that combined with fighting off Al's attentions gifted my a 6 second lead by the start of the 2nd lap!
This wasn't to remain the case though as once Goran got some breathing room from Al he started to pull me back in, at one point he was down to about 3 seconds behind me - luckily I then put my fastest lap of the race in just as he made a small error so I opened the gap back up to about 6 seconds again.
Where it stayed near-enough for the remainder of the race, as I put in some solid consistent times, and I guess Goran backed off slightly to avoid DNF'ing  :)
A very hard yet enjoyable race despite the lack of wheel to wheel fighting.

Well done to the finishers and bad luck to Clutch on loosing 3rd at the last minute, must admit I was rooting for you while watching on prib as you'd been battling Clive for ages!  8)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Brno (1965-74) - Jan 11
Post by: bernie on January 12, 2011, 12:28:30 AM +0000
Not much better here , clobbered evil after he spun then clobbered Fulvio doing a spin turn t get back on track , soz Fulvio  :-[
No Bernie it was all Evil's fault  :P
I slowdown as much as I could when I saw you spinning, but managed to give a little pat to Evil that GPL enphasized, then I restarted while you were doing burn out and my engine blew  :(
Cya the next

Even so my re join attempt was a little too impatient , with foresight I should have let you through , but the heat of the moment etc .  ::)

somebody is sure to quote me on "bad re joins"  so I hold my hands up now , but must confess , the state my guts are in would make the worst garters ever  ;D 



Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Brno (1965-74) - Jan 11
Post by: EvilClive on January 12, 2011, 12:57:31 PM +0000
After the false start carnage and my spin on lap 1 of the 2nd attempt which left me about a mile behind the pace, I thought about just going to bed as I was ( and am) developing a nice dose of man-flu....sniff.....sniff.

But after my thrashing by HER after the last race I thought that I ought to make some effort so I set off in lonely pursuit.

Hristo was the next car and although I was not closing on him, I was catching Clutch who was running ahead of H.

Hristo vanished and Clutch made a mistake that brought him within sight and gave me a target. The next 4 or 5 laps were a battle, as I had the speed through the corners but could not match the grunt of Clutch's car on the straights. I probed and looked for an opening but nothing was being given away  :-\ So I had to plan my move about a lap in advance.
Passing Clutch anywhere before a straight was a waste of time as he would simply out drag me to the next corner and retake the position. So, my move had to be somewhere around the uphill esses, just before the drop into the village, then I could maybe pull out enough gap to survive those long straights across the S/F line.
It meant that I had to pick up the slipstream as we got onto the S/F straight and stay close all the way to those esses!!! to be close enough to pounce. I was sooooo grateful when he went wide and I could nip through. I had to push as hard as I dared for the rest of the lap and promptly overcooked it on the downhill bit which allowed him to reatke his position.....rats!!! ( or something like that ::) )

The red mist descended at that point and the last 4 laps were total banzai. I had nothing to lose as I was the last car, so I pushed as hard as I could and the gap began to close again. I think Clutch was playing it ultra cautious, and that allowed me to close up.
last lap and just as I got close to Clutch we passed Al stuck in the wall of the esses. Now there was a sniff of a podium place!!! if I could just engineer a pass before the S/F line.
Approaching the final corner Clutch went for the inside defensive line and I went wide, expecting that he would simply outdrag me to the line. I braked late and I think Clutch got either his braking or his acceleration point wrong because he put a couple of wheels onto the dirt and I nipped through on the inside and ABSOLUTELY FLOORED IT!!! 4 speed shifts later and the line was approaching, but so was Clutch :-\  and at one point I thought he was going to wrench his podium place back.
As he said, another 100mtrs and he would have recovered the situation , but I just squeaked over the line to steal 3rd spot.
Great racing Clutch and commiserations to Al who had run a lonely but steady race in a safe 3rd spot only to lose it on the last lap.

Grats to Tim ( who was sandbagging outrageously pre-race!!!) and to Goran who kept him partially honest.





Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Brno (1965-74) - Jan 11
Post by: bernie on January 12, 2011, 01:17:19 PM +0000
0.04 secs , yup thats close  :o



Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Brno (1965-74) - Jan 11
Post by: Hristo Itchov on January 12, 2011, 03:54:35 PM +0000
Didn't have the chance to do many laps yesterday, so had a proper go at the track today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqUYBITrxnA

I must say it's quite fun driving it in the 65s, especially the twisty bits in the middle of the lap - can throw the car around much more than 66s.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Brno (1965-74) - Jan 11
Post by: Clutch4 on January 12, 2011, 07:21:05 PM +0000
I have to say Hristo, that onboard lap looks very fast.

Its interesting to see where you gain time over my laps. It looks to me that you brake a lot later than me.

How do you manage to keep the car balanced under braking? Do you heel / toe?

Impressive lap all the same.  ;)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Brno (1965-74) - Jan 11
Post by: Hristo Itchov on January 12, 2011, 07:46:14 PM +0000
I have to say Hristo, that onboard lap looks very fast.

Its interesting to see where you gain time over my laps. It looks to me that you brake a lot later than me.

How do you manage to keep the car balanced under braking? Do you heel / toe?

Impressive lap all the same.  ;)

I don't think I brake later, maybe I just turn-in earlier and let off the brake earlier, so the car carries more speed on entry. I use a lot of throttle under braking, otherwise I can't keep it on the road, and you can also see how I get on and off the brake/throttle before a corner some times, to compensate for any instability or too early braking point. I would be terrible if I had to RFB, but nonetheless I'm willing to learn that if/when I get a 3 pedals set. Would a great challenge for sure!


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Brno (1965-74) - Jan 11
Post by: Clutch4 on January 12, 2011, 08:08:46 PM +0000
I have to say Hristo, that onboard lap looks very fast.

Its interesting to see where you gain time over my laps. It looks to me that you brake a lot later than me.

How do you manage to keep the car balanced under braking? Do you heel / toe?

Impressive lap all the same.  ;)

I don't think I brake later, maybe I just turn-in earlier and let off the brake earlier, so the car carries more speed on entry. I use a lot of throttle under braking, otherwise I can't keep it on the road, and you can also see how I get on and off the brake/throttle before a corner some times, to compensate for any instability or too early braking point. I would be terrible if I had to RFB, but nonetheless I'm willing to learn that if/when I get a 3 pedals set. Would a great challenge for sure!


Interesting. Alaways good to see how someone else, especially one of the fastest GPL Drivers, gets a car around a track.

Hope you manage that 3 pedal set. I can tell you from personal experience that slowing one of these GPL cars down whilst braking with your right foot, trying to feather the throttle also with your right foot, moving the clutch with your left foot, moving the gear stick down 3 or 4 gears with your right hand whilst holding the wheel steading with your one remaining hand.. all at the same time.. for every corner.. of every lap.. is a difficult, but very rewarding challenge. I love it.  :)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Brno (1965-74) - Jan 11
Post by: Hristo Itchov on January 12, 2011, 08:16:22 PM +0000
Yeah, I can imagine, the feeling must be much more authentic. I'll probably get frustrated by my lack of control, but hopefully the pleasure would balance that out.

I was driving practically with RFB for many years when I was playing with a joystick, because you can't apply any throttle whatsoever under braking with that, but it's one thing doing it with the hand and quite another with the foot. :P


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Brno (1965-74) - Jan 11
Post by: EvilClive on January 12, 2011, 08:25:03 PM +0000
I have to agree with Clutch.
Everytime I watch a Hristo lap, I am amazed at where he is still able to be fully on the power where I am already way into my braking zone and struggling to keep the car straight and get the speed off for the bend ahead. And then Hristo says that I am braking too late!!!!! and compromising my entry to the corner  lol :-\

On the video of Brno at the end of the long straight, I am braking really hard BEFORE the small footbridge over the road, whereas Hristo is still hard on the gas for another 100 mtrs or more. I can just make that sharp bend if I get my braking right but he sweeps through there without any effort??

I just cannot find the balance between brake and throttle to slow down that quickly H.
You have either passed me, or left me for dead so often in a braking zone, that I am now used to it.

 But, I also happen to think that this alien braking ability of yours might be why you find some newer drivers apparently turning in on you at the apex. A glance in the mirror before the bend tells them that there is no way on earth that the following car can possibly catch them before the next bend and so they concentrate on their braking and choose their line through the corner expecting you to pass on the next straight section.

Only to discover that by some warp of time and space, that the car that was 200 mtrs behind 0.5 secs ago is now alongside them!!!  lol  I know how frightening that can be! :o


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Brno (1965-74) - Jan 11
Post by: Hristo Itchov on January 12, 2011, 08:43:52 PM +0000
It could be that the sound is a bit off the video. In fact, it does seem to me I'm braking later than when I drove the lap as well. Sound always goes out of sync for some reason when capturing laps, especially longer ones like this. It could also be that the replay does not show exactly the way the car behaves while you're actually driving it. In any case, I don't think I gain most of the time by braking late, so you shouldn't pay attention to that. Braking later only gains you a few hundreds at best.

Under racing conditions I've found out others brake later than me, or at least they prolong their braking effort, so maybe i'm just harder on the brakes, I dunno. I avoid stepping too hard on the brakes for 65 and 66 cars though, you lose a lot of feedback from the car when the wheels are close to locking up. Are you changing gears quickly while braking so the revs would go high? This really helps to slow down the car, so called engine braking. If I don't do there's no way I can stop in time for some of those corners using those braking marks.

As for balancing, you can see and hear that I do a lot of dancing with the throttle and brake to find the right amount of grip. It's a bad habit and a really good driver wouldn't do that, but my foot control isn't that great. It usually doesn't work well in other sims and it also doesn't work well in the GT mod, especially with that wheel lock-up "feature".


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Brno (1965-74) - Jan 11
Post by: FullMetalGasket on January 12, 2011, 10:31:35 PM +0000
Didn't have the chance to do many laps yesterday, so had a proper go at the track today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqUYBITrxnA

I must say it's quite fun driving it in the 65s, especially the twisty bits in the middle of the lap - can throw the car around much more than 66s.

Tut tut - speed shifting eh?  ;D

I'm confused now. You mostly use the same braking points and lines as I have, only difference being that I won't rev that high in a race and was unwilling to take the section after the town quite so Banzai'ish for 10 laps running.
Your lap should be faster from watching it but it's the fact it's the fact it's by 7 seconds that's astonishing me most!  :o

I'd recommend you spend more time in the GT mod or Try some of the bigger cars in P&G if you can get hold of it - that'll really help encourage you to brake and setup, coast/drift in, and power out without too much pfaffing with the pedals or wheel  :)
The 65's are admittedly so twitchy you have to fight tham a bit but I've found myself getting a lot smoother of late thanks to those mods  :angel:


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Brno (1965-74) - Jan 11
Post by: Hristo Itchov on January 12, 2011, 10:41:37 PM +0000
Well, it's a total hotlap, it was 1 in 10 attempts (crashing or making big mistakes in the other 9), so definitely not something to do in a race, or even in event Qualifying. I just wanted to explore my limits at this track since I enjoy it. My race pace would probably be at least 4:41s or slower, and that on low fuel. And you're totally right about the revs and speed shifting (although I did try to lift up, so it wasn't intentional speed shifting), this would probably blow up the engine within a few laps.

As for going from throttle to brake and back, it's mostly down to lack of practice and knowledge of the track. I had no firm braking points for most of the corners, so I had to go by feeling and that requires adjusting the braking distance and corner entry speed on the fly. You can see I'm much smoother in my Nurburgring WR lap for instance, since I know the track. The habit can definitely be useful, but at the same time it's really holding me back at smoother tracks like Kyalami or Monza where you need to do the transitions in a single motion. That's why I dislike such tracks. :P For some reason it works OK at Zeltweg though, but there's not much braking involved there.

P&G requires you to have GTL, right?


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Brno (1965-74) - Jan 11
Post by: vosblod on January 12, 2011, 10:51:48 PM +0000
P&G requires you to have GTL, right?
Tut tut Tim telling people to try other sims then the god of them all ;)
Yes you need to have a GTL game disc (although you don't need to install it) and, I think, you need GTR2 as well.
Must admit I found it too much trying to do P&G and GPL (which of course is the best)...


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Brno (1965-74) - Jan 11
Post by: FullMetalGasket on January 13, 2011, 12:22:39 AM +0000
It's not easy switching between the 2 but I'm just a sucker for accurate historic sims ;D
I concentrate my efforts on GPL though and as a result my performances in P&G varie wildly from race to race and car to car.
In fact I regularily pick cars based purely on engine note with no regard for suitability to the track at hand - you can guess how that normally goes!  :ninja:


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Brno (1965-74) - Jan 11
Post by: bernie on January 13, 2011, 03:37:16 PM +0000
U tube will always have out of synch soundtrack , so the point you hear the engine note "lift off "  will be distorted and sound earlier than it actually is.
The only way to see the true brake point would be for H to upload a replay file for us mortals to mooch over using the GPL replay facility  :)

Of coarse we could then use GPLRA to maybe find a few more pointers  ;)

How's about it H ?  :balloon:



Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Brno (1965-74) - Jan 11
Post by: bernie on January 13, 2011, 04:01:38 PM +0000
Also,  why can't we have sound like this ......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h23iiTMdWLE&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h23iiTMdWLE&feature=related)

PLEASE  8)

then I would never mind about running on my own at the back  :o





Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Brno (1965-74) - Jan 11
Post by: Hristo Itchov on January 13, 2011, 04:45:58 PM +0000
U tube will always have out of synch soundtrack , so the point you hear the engine note "lift off "  will be distorted and sound earlier than it actually is.
The only way to see the true brake point would be for H to upload a replay file for us mortals to mooch over using the GPL replay facility  :)

Of coarse we could then use GPLRA to maybe find a few more pointers  ;)

How's about it H ?  :balloon:



It's out of sync before Youtube, as an AVI file. It's something to do with capturing and compressing it afterwards. But anyway, I can adjust the frame rate to compensate for that, more or less. The shorter the track the less adjustment is needed.

As for the replay, sure, here's a link:

http://racingleague.co.cc/hikiwaza/downloads/65_brno_65_bt7_43867.zip

That's an awesome sound by the wazamobile  :o  thanks for sharing!

EDIT: Re-uploaded it after adding the setup I used to the zip file.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Brno (1965-74) - Jan 11
Post by: Clutch4 on January 13, 2011, 08:57:27 PM +0000
What a total waste of time! First all the delay with the bad grid, then Clutch just had squeeze me right at the edge of the track when I made my pass, then he had to take such big risks as to eventually go off in attempt to pass me back at T1, forcing me to avoid him and take myself out. Can't you just realize when you're stepping way over your limit and back off?  ::) A big engine was the only thing which kept you in front for so long, so why not stick to that advantage only...

Hmmm, think i missed this entry earlier on. Heat of the moment maybe, but slightly out of order

I know it must be difficult after 153 Poles, 125 Wins and 13 Championships to find yourself mixing it further down the field with us slower Amateurs who don't know 'our limits'. I felt i was clear when the pass was made, but did lose the back end on the first right hander into the first village due to an attempted muddled down shift from 5th to 3rd due to me Manually shifting with a 5 speed box and a Clutch (Don't worry if this bit goes over your head.. this is something the Drivers used to do in the 60's when they drove these cars as opposed to your prefered unrealistic method of 'flicking paddles' on the wheel and left foot braking for maximum Performance over realism).

I'll apologise ofcourse as it was purely accidental, but all i can suggest is that you don't mix it with the slower drivers and qualify better by making sure you attend qualifying ontime as opposed to your recent trend of arriving very late and putting in a last gasp Pole lap for maximum glory (for every race so far), a tactic that i'm afraid let you down this time my friend.  ;)

Your the fastest Driver in UKGPL and i'm pretty sure you'll be in the mix come the end of the season, so think of it this way, your crash, due to my spin, has actually made the Championship more interesting for the Neutral fan! Anyway, it'll give me and Bernie somthing to talk about during the next race whilst we wait for the leaders to appear in our mirrors and the blue flags to start waving.  ;)

Now, deep breaths, see you next round. (in the distance)  ;)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Brno (1965-74) - Jan 11
Post by: EvilClive on January 13, 2011, 09:27:16 PM +0000
Also,  why can't we have sound like this ......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h23iiTMdWLE&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h23iiTMdWLE&feature=related)

PLEASE  8)

then I would never mind about running on my own at the back  :o


aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D  Now thats what I call music!!!






Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Brno (1965-74) - Jan 11
Post by: Hristo Itchov on January 13, 2011, 09:36:23 PM +0000

I know it must be difficult after 153 Poles, 125 Wins and 13 Championships to find yourself mixing it further down the field with us slower Amateurs who don't know 'our limits'. I felt i was clear when the pass was made, but did lose the back end on the first right hander into the first village due to an attempted muddled down shift from 5th to 3rd due to me Manually shifting with a 5 speed box and a Clutch (Don't worry if this bit goes over your head.. this is something the Drivers used to do in the 60's when they drove these cars as opposed to your prefered unrealistic method of 'flicking paddles' on the wheel and left foot braking for maximum Performance over realism).

Heh, who do you think you're speaking with, Clutch? You obviously don't know me at all, nor do you know how far my knowledge of racing and racing cars extends. But if it makes you feel more secure, I'll let it be so. I'll only say that I'm only using whatever controller I have in posession. If I could afford something better I would've had done so long ago... it has nothing to do with preferences. I've driven for years with a joystick and then switched to a wheel/pedals. You can imagine what it means trying to learn completely new habits at the age of mid 20s. Instead of preaching what's realistic and what isn't, look after improving your own racing habits.

I'll apologise ofcourse as it was purely accidental, but all i can suggest is that you don't mix it with the slower drivers and qualify better by making sure you attend qualifying ontime as opposed to your recent trend of arriving very late and putting in a last gasp Pole lap for maximum glory (for every race so far), a tactic that i'm afraid let you down this time my friend.  ;)

Slower drivers? Since when slow equals dangerous? I've raced many slower drivers and had great battles without a single problem. I still do. I've also been the slower driver myself and it didn't stop me from having good races. My late arrival has nothing to do with your stupid assumptions of "maximum glory". I arrive when I can and I do whatever is possible in Qualifying. Why don't you stop blaming me and simply take responsibility for your own mistakes, because in this case I'm not the one making mistakes. Or do you prefer to assume "i'm slow, i can afford to be dangerous on the road, it's the better drivers who have to keep their distance from me so they don't get hurt". What kind of wrong thinking is this?

Your the fastest Driver in UKGPL and i'm pretty sure you'll be in the mix come the end of the season, so think of it this way, your crash, due to my spin, has actually made the Championship more interesting for the Neutral fan! Anyway, it'll give me and Bernie somthing to talk about during the next race whilst we wait for the leaders to appear in our mirrors and the blue flags to start waving.  ;)

Now, deep breaths, see you next round. (in the distance)  ;)

Fastest counts for little when you're racing other people. Predictability, respect and consistency are what wins you races, what leads to enjoyable battles and what keeps you out of incidents. When you're being reckless, don't be surprised you end up in an accident or cause someone else's retirement. It's highly ridiculous to tell someone not to race with you because you're lacking control and to yet enter the same races as them and keep doing your thing.

And please don't try to involve Bernie into this. For your information, Bernie is a totally predictable driver and knows his current limits 10x better than you. He would rarely endanger anyone by taking huge risks, or if he does he'll take responsibility for his actions. You don't think he won titles in UKGPL by sheer luck, do you? I've probably only ever had a problem with Bernie once or twice over 6 years.

I'm really disappointed, because first you reply and appologize, then even talk friendly to me, then you suddenly change faces and throw out these ridiculous statements with all the arrogance in assuming that you know anything about me, my experience or my knowledge.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Brno (1965-74) - Jan 11
Post by: Podkrecony_Ziutek on January 13, 2011, 10:13:59 PM +0000
Guys, could you please continue this in PM's? If it doesn't wok, maybe just use this magic button called: "Submit an incident report" and let this be decided by a moderator ;)

I felt i was clear when the pass was made, but did lose the back end on the first right hander into the first village due to an attempted muddled down shift from 5th to 3rd due to me Manually shifting with a 5 speed box and a Clutch (Don't worry if this bit goes over your head.. this is something the Drivers used to do in the 60's when they drove these cars as opposed to your prefered unrealistic method of 'flicking paddles' on the wheel and left foot braking for maximum Performance over realism).

Sorry Clutch, but the way you shift gears should never be an excuse for making mistakes. That's yours choice, and others shouldn't be penalised because of that. Just to be clear, I'm not talking about your incident with Hristo ;)

You need to remamber that, many drivers don't drive in "realistic way(H-shifter + H&T)" because they don't have proper hardware. Others might have G25, but decided not to use H&T because it has nothing to do with realism :P


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Brno (1965-74) - Jan 11
Post by: Clutch4 on January 13, 2011, 10:27:50 PM +0000
No problem chaps. I won't be continuing the thread, i've seen these things get out of hand on other threads.

Just thought the original post from H required a response of equal measure, (i missed it originally)

No problem from me, just felt i'd push a few buttons to get a reaction in response to his claims which were a tad out of line i felt.

I've apologised for the incident in question and have no further issues with him.

Each to their own on the shifting issue ofcourse, no grudge there.  ;)

3 years at UKGPL and my first 'naughty' post. Won't be making it a habit.

Cheers  :)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Brno (1965-74) - Jan 11
Post by: Hristo Itchov on January 15, 2011, 01:12:56 AM +0000
Just thought the original post from H required a response of equal measure, (i missed it originally)

How can you say that when your response reeks of selfish arrogant statements aimed only to make you feel more comfortable and find an excuse for your actions on the track, just because you're using superior controllers. "He's not driving realistically, he's not using a shifter or a clutch pedal, I think he doesn't even know the meaning of that, while me on the other hand - I struggle much more and therefore I always have an excuse when something goes wrong and that removes any responsibility off my shoulders".

My report was done just after the race and is completely transparent to how I felt and saw the situation, therefore it's completely honest and truthful. You on the other hand, after making an equally honest post earlier and which made a lot more sense, had to return to my post 2 days after the race and make a fool of yourself by speaking totally irrelevant things.

Do you really believe that if I get a G25 (or whatever with shifter/3pedals) I won't practice hard to reach back my current level, regardless of what you think is realistic or not? Do you really believe reaching the limit of grip of a given car in the sim is about driving "realisticly" or not? You can keep fooling yourself that it gives you enough reason to make mistakes or have bad results, but the reality is you either work hard to improve or you give up. Feel free to blame it on someone else if it makes you feel better though, but don't be surprised when you get reactions like mine.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Brno (1965-74) - Jan 11
Post by: Clutch4 on January 15, 2011, 08:45:06 PM +0000
If you can't take it mate, don't dish it out.  ;)

I've apologised and also stated it was my error and also how it happened from my point of view, but thought i'd also wind you up a bit for good measure because i felt your post was slightly condesending to me. (it appears this worked so we'll leave it there)

I'm sure we have better things to do and as Podkrecony says, there's no need to continue the thread.  :angel:

No more responses from me so your next post (god forbid.. surely not) will be unanswered.  ;)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 20 (2010-2011) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Brno (1965-74) - Jan 11
Post by: FullMetalGasket on March 03, 2011, 04:04:26 PM +0000
Mod report published.  :)