SimRacing.org.uk

UKGPL Season 20 Novices Trophy (65 Mod) Race 9 Feb 22nd

The penultimate round of the season takes us to the French countryside airstrip of Albi.

Never a Formula 1 circuit, this small, typical airfield circuit north of Toulouse was used on the F2 calendar. Being a small, tight circuit where power is less of an issue, Albi should sort the men from the boys, or as I said rather amusingly in Season 17, les hommes à partir des garçons as they like to say in le pit lane.

As always I would remind you to take care on Lap 1 through the intitial section at Courbe Armand Brouzes and again under braking for Double Droite de l’Aerodrome where the field is likely to get compressed again.

You can download the track here:
http://a.bosco.free.fr/gpl/albi67.htm

Please see the Novices registration thread for an explanation of the chassis allocations shown below:
https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=8416.0

FULL TIME

DRIVER	CHASSIS
Vosblod	Cooper
NHance	BT11
Miner2049er	Cooper
Il_Lupo	Ferrari
Billy NoBrakes	BT11
HappyAl	Ferrari
Gilles27	BT7
Burtoner	3
Nigel Smith	Honda
Ronnie Peterson	Lotus
Blito	Ferrari
Mark65	1
Artiglietti	Cooper
BadBlood	Honda
RogUK	Cooper
Norbert	Ferrari
Maddog	Cooper

RESERVE

DRIVER	CHASSIS
Karliss	Honda
Adamg67	BT11
Maestro	Cooper

Reserve drivers should not join the server until there are only 30 minutes of qualifying left so as to give the FULL TIME drivers chance to join, and drivers are not to go out on track until there are 30 minutes of qualifying left as this helps all drivers join the server successfully.

Please restrict chat to pit messages if necessary, and this includes the end of the race, until all running drivers have completed the necessary laps.

The Novice races are run under Int Long rules and all incidents will be moderated.

Race List = IGOR
Server = UKGPL5
IP address = ping myjamesonline.net
Race date = 22-02-2011
Time = 21:00 UK time
Track = Albi (albi67)
Variant = 65F1
Damage Model = Int
Qualifying time = 35 minutes
Race length = 30 laps
Password: see above (#post_event_password)

65 Patch: The 2.02 Release of the 65mod can and should be used.
http://bit.ly/d8dECl

Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R;group=279;theme=6)

Can you confirm this is going to be a short and sweet 24 laps!

this is gonna be interesting... i`ve done no practise whatsoever for this one and  i`m a bit off the pace although i do like albi and dare say there is  heap of time to come off.....  looking forward to it..

Well spotted Ronnie.

This will now be a 30 lap race.

Not for me it won't  :laugh:

Not sure if I can make tonight due to a clash with the football schedules. Shame because I was getting reasonably good times in practice & the set up was working well. If I don't make it will see you at Adelaide.

Please don't tell me you're a Chelsea fan...

Tottenham still have plenty of time to eff it up...

Oi! You lot .

Knock it off will yer , this is a proper motor racing forum not a windy baggy convention  :offtopic:


 :) :) :)

Hee hee . . . they're just kicking stuff about.  Albi there, y'all! :D

im so stupid but duno why....
i refill car before start till 34laps... set the same set to race but during race my car stoped twice....
after race i checked and my car was filled to 13laps...
how can it be , i cant understund, its not the first time i doing that way.

i had great race till lap 13... when stoped first time
also 2 errors collisions in wide turn before bridge.
if ban me to next 3 races then start from today. also from what 3 races?

S20H Watkins Glen (194…
S20GrP Monza (GP 1955-…
S20GrW Monza (GP 195

LOL Fantastic race. Gutted to finish 14th because I was running 12th for a long time. Made a mistake on lap 28 - which was my first off and went into the armco - end of. Shame because Nigel Al and I had just caught Karliss and we would have had a time of it. Wasn't particularly quick (2-3 secs of Art) but reasonably consistent and managed to hold Norm up for a while (not quite sure how I got past in the first place, maybe he span) He was quicker than me but the Waza power down the straight served me well. Hope I didn't block you off Norm. Let me know if I did.

Pulled out a lead on Nigel and Al and was all going well but I had to let Ross past which I did a poor job of and lost time and rhythm. Sorry Ross. Al closed up and went past but lost it so that was Nigel behind and he was putting big pressure on - I could only hear one engine note down the straights! We caught Karliss coming out of the pits and I thought if I could get past him it would serve as a buffer. Only 2 laps to go had held Nigel off for 3 or 4 but it was tough. Accelerated a bit early out of the last part of T1 and put wheels on the grass - dizzy.

Never mind - lots of progress and I actually had a race where I didn't go off on my own.

Nigel cut me off at the start in a most unWaza like move - take a look - you'll be surprised :) Had a coming together with Jason twice with blind spot issues - let Mike sort that out - I've looked and I am not sure - hope they are racing incidents but maybe not. Apart form that - good and clean. Great fun. Best yet.

LOL, yes that was the point that the wife thought was the perfect time to start chating with me :( Sorry if I gave you a scare.

Will do a full report soon, a bit down at the moment as I had more pace that I showed here and feel a bit hard done by being so low down.

That makes me feel good - I thought I was racing properly :( Glad you were slow. Gave me a chance to race you... big fun

Might one of those be I'm on the long straight, you know I'm alongside (it was a long straight). I hug the inside of the (WIDE) corner as much as I possibly can but you just turn in as though I'm not there!!!
(http://clarkhillracing.freeforums.org/download/file.php?id=185)

Is that your idea of corner rights Karliss?

If you are asking about Bans the rules are;
Beyond that it goes to a rest of season ban then a lifetime ban but I don't believe that's ever happened yet.

yes its me.
didnt se you. sorry. i already asked miner what to do in situation like this.
i know how to take this and most of corners in trajectory only, otherwise i go out track or spin most of time.
1.seems i have a long way to learn how to play GPL in correct and safe mode in online. But hope Novice races are for that.
2.also while i was a slowest car on track, i couldnt get penalty points cause i let pass everyone, just because them all fly away, but since my laptimes are faster
(albi is 5th race laptme :O ), real headakes started for me.

Karlisss, you're most likely focusing too intensely on a specific thing while you're driving instead of keeping a broader attention to what goes on in general. Try to use your peripheral vision to keep a check on your mirrors and to the surrounding area of the car, and also look further up the road so you can react on time if there is an incident or a spun car in front. It's an issue with many people who're new to simracing, as they tend to keep their eyes firmly onto the frontend of the car and miss what's going on around them.

Also, your ears can give you a lot of clues of the position of the other cars, so try to listen for the engines of other cars. You will learn to recognize, just by sound, when a car is behind you or is side by side with you, and that combined with using your eyes and paying attention mentally, can help to have a good overall picture of a large area around your car.

And one more thing - try to develop a habit of checking up the mirrors in the same place on each lap, i.e. on the exit of a given corner. You can try to add more such places per lap and do it 2-3 times per lap, but try to do it at the same places every time and keep checking the mirrors even if there is nobody behind you.

Had some issues connecting to the server so missed the early part of qually, I was hoping to get on the front row but had to settle for third in between Norm and Ronnie; we were all very close on time but Attilio blew us away (again!).

I knew Norm often struggles off the line and made a good getaway myself to be chasing Attilio into turn one. The first two or three laps were exciting as I was able to use the tow to stay in touch and try to apply some pressure. Then I made an error on lap four and dropped down to fifth. I spent the middle part of the race recovering past Norbert and Mike into third but that was all I could do.

I think I was slightly quicker than Ronnie but the gap was too big and I lost some time in traffic and to a late spin, again pushing too hard. I seem to be hitting my limit with the BT7 now and it just isn't quick enough :)

Congratulations to Attilio on another impeccable win, and to Ronnie for a good second place. Looking forward to the showdown in Adelaide.

Got a PB in Qual with the help of a tow from Giles27, thank you mate :)

Got a good start, had a chance to challenge Norbert but decided against it, as it would of been too big of a chance on the first lap, with cold tires etc. So I tried to settle into a race pace. I saw that Hunt was behind me, so I tried to keep a good distance, but he was quicker than me and was on my tail in no time. At the braking points I choose my line and suck to it, this worked fine for the corner at the end of the straight and I go a little gap going into the second, shorter straight. I took my normal line and saw that Hunt was too far behind to try an overtake, I was wrong as he did try it, I will leave it to the mods to sort out.

So from 6th to 9th I went, I had Blito behind me, again he was faster than me but I was confident I could keep him behind if I didn’t make any mistakes. I tried to re-settle into a good rhythm. Blito was right on my gearbox by now, I choose my lines and was doing fine, until the last corner. I made a small mistake where I was watching my mirrors and out braked myself a little, I thought I was still OK but Blito had gone for the gap and I ended up turning into him. Sorry about that, I feel a little silly now I’ve seen it again on my reply.

I think at this stage I think I was last, right behind Nigel and Badblood. I ended up in front of Nigel, I think he might of made a mistake, I can’t really remember how.  I think at this stage I was really annoyed with myself and my lines had gone all over the place, my lap times where really slow. This meant that Nigel was quicker than me was back on my tail in no time. I did what I had been doing most of the race and taking defensive lines into the main overtaking points. Nigel got a great run on me at the end of the straight, I was on the inside and he took the outside line. At the second part of the corner we touched, looking at my reply I think it was a warp contact, I didn’t feel anything and was as far to the right as possible.

I caught up with Bad, I was getting a good run on him on the main straight. I pretty much got a perfect pass lined up, and was braking for the inside of the corner. No problems here apart from the wife thought this would be the perfect time to start chatting with me. I know I shouldn’t blame her but it was under control one moment and next thing I now I was spinning out. Now I was dead last.

Just to rub salt into it I saw Karliss taking a stop and go and coming out just in front of us. I think I had a chance to be ahead of him too. I was now in a 4 way fight, I was hanging onto the tail of the train and was trying to get a run on Nigel up the main straight. At about this time Bad made a mistake and spun, leaving us with a 3 way train with about 2 laps to go. I felt sorry for Bad as he had a good race. This is how it finished, I think myself and Nigel both tried a last minute push because all 3 of us crossed the line almost together, certainly the closest finished I’ve seen in GPL.

Apology accepted, I was a bit miffed at the time.
As Hristo mentions knowing what's going on around you is one of the most important things. Earlier on I had some great fun, in the main because people kept it safe but still raced. One thing that helps me is to practice taking different lines, that way you can vary how you take a corner if you are in a head to head situation.

PS: Just to mention it's not all doom and gloom, I think you've come along really well and could be a contender next season. Don't get too disheartened about picking up penalties, the system is there to help drivers improve their racecraft (if they are willing) however it may seem.

Qually Good.........Race Bad

After the fireball of turn 1 I was last but caught up. It took many laps to get past Bad Blood who played fair & used his Honda Power to good effect. One to forget I think.

Norm H

I was rather worried before the race, since due to the layout of the track even starting from pole I would have been easy prey of a more powerful car on the long straight before DD. So, I was strangely happy to see (er..hear, actually) it was Ross who was following me after the start. When he spun after a few laps, I only just managed to stay on the road while watching what was going on in the mirrors. At that stage I had Ronnie behind me, but the gap was already just above that crucial 2 secs threshold, so that he couldnt really get a decent tow from my car, and I was able to use those few tenths I had up my sleeve to keep him at bay for the rest of the race, if only just.

At the end I thought I had racked up a solid amount of points over Ross, but he and his buzzing thing had managed to recover to the last step of the podium, although not without a truly titanic battle with team mate Mike... ;)

That gives us the mother of all showdowns at Adelaide, where whoever finishes ahead takes it all. No pressure there! ;D ;D

Grats to the podium boys, see you in 2 weeks.

yeh, sorry about that Norm. Bit pointless ruining your race given I finished last:( but I enjoyed it at the time :D

While Attilio probably appreciated me finishing ahead of Ross I also have sympathy and respect for anyone buzzing around in that BT7. For myself I just could not get a really clean lap in during qualifying but was happy to start 4th. In hindsight my sluggish start meant I avoided the mayhem at the first corner with least two cars stepping out of the way for me. Fortunately for the championship this did not involve Attilio and Ross, but I would be ling if I said I was not slightly disappointed when I glanced up at Prib (sorry guys). While they squabbled for the first few laps I set off in pursuit of them and was making some progress when I came upon Ross recovering from a spin. Unfortunately for him I know at least Mike was not far behind me so he would have his work cut out getting back to me let alone Attilio. I had a go at chasing down the speedy Cooper but it was mission impossible. He had the speed and I was caught in no mans land with no tow for pretty much the rest of the race. I settled for second and settled into a steady pace while monitoring the progress of Ross behind me. Hats off to anybody I passed, even when involved in their own battles I was treated well. While I had a lonely race I still think this is a great track for racing and I hope we return sooner rather than later. Best of luck to both of you for the final race.

My race was destined to be a disaster, from the moment I arrived.  The car lacked basic grip, and at a track, with so little time separating the pack, this was a recipe for impediment.

I struggled to get a position at the rear of the grid, and soon found myself challenging HappyAl through the frantic opening laps.  The door was shut firmly in my face a couple of times, but I confess to committing an error, and understeering into his rear wheel at the entrance to Virage du Parc, where we briefly parked.  Sorry Alistair - we must stop meeting like this! :'(  

Carried on without too much debris, but started seeing red, again!  At one point, I had a trio of squabbling Ferrari's occupying my path to victory.  I actually managed to pass all 3, during their discussions at one particular corner.  But my car soon decided things were going too well, and swapped ends on me.  Thereafter, I was doomed to follow Blito in, you guessed it, his Ferrari.  I managed to draw alongside once, in a fair fight, but he was just a bit too good.

Not my best performance, but I noticed an interesting thing about these cars . . . they look so much better in my mirrors - especially Ferrari's! :P

Bad Blood - you were not ruining my race you were fighting to hold a legitimate position which you had earned. You have to use all the means you have which in this case was the superior power of the Honda.  Ok sometimes I have mentioned about deliberately letting others through but that is because I was playing the long game of trying to secure the highest possible position in the championship. Points for say 4th or 5th are better than a crash & points for 14th. That's all gone now anyway.

Norm H


 
 

I`m flattered! I`ve never been described as "too good" before" :)

Now then, to put across my version of last nights action...

Paul - I will be generous and agree that i was in your blind spot on both occasions, however i will say that Hristos advice to Karliss a few posts ago might help you prevent making the same mistake again.  A few laps after our clash. I found myself in the reverse of the situation, with Fabio in my blind spot. I knew roughly where he was and that I needed to give him space. Note that it didnt end with a crash. Also, Paul, when I attempted to pass you at the end of the straight on lap 2, I was fully aware of your impending loss of control and was able to avert a potential accident.
Hristo, would have been proud of me!

Al - another blind spot issue, but perhaps excusable seeing as Fabio was right with us too and there was a lot to take in. It was great to have four cars all battling it out so close though.. bloody good fun.

Martin -  LoL !!!! You might have been fast last night, but boy, you were wobbly! Still, was great fun and somehow we kept it clean! It was good racing with you :)

karliss - I know you`ve been getting some flak lately for penalties but when I passed you last night you seemed very aware of what was going on and avoided the urge to close the door on me.... You doin all right Kid :D

Oh and a special mention to Nhance for the comedy burning car at L1 T1 ... couldnt resist giving you a little nudge ;)

Roll on adelaide!

I sure am, in fact I think that proves you're ready to move up to Amateurs (which BTW I hope would be renamed to something else next season, lol)!  ;D

All suggestions on a postcard to other Tim although I will veto WazasRule Division ;D

Hmm, OK then... how about HERdivision?  ;D

I thought about this, this season. Probably leaving Novices as Novices, and changing Amateurs to Pro and leaving the possibility of a middle division called Amateurs should we ever get the numbers to run it.

Qually went OK and with such a short lap, like Watkins, a few tenths can mean a lot of places but luckily I stayed in the front half of the grid.

That improved to 4th by driving underneath an airborne Ferrari and I followed Ronnie for a few laps but once he got his tyres warmed up and his squirming about stopped I couldn't stay with him.

Norbert caught me in the early laps but when he had a look at me at DD he got all twitchy and never really got close again.

Ross caught me after his spin and as we're in different battles I let him go and followed his tow for a while but he couldn't get close enough to the lead 2.

I thought I would give Norbert a ray of hope with 4 laps to go by taking T1 backwards which was fun but not to be recommended.

Looking forward to the slippy, slidy Adelaide and sealing 3rd in the Championship.

Adelaide world record 1-32,1  :O
wish some day ALIENS could abduct me and implant a secret speed chip in my brains.

Have to apologise to Jason for taking him out - he came from my blind spot a couple of times and the second time I should have expected it. Soz mate.

       Apologies for that startline incident Paul, I was trying to avoid tail-ending a car and moved to the side without checking my mirror. Thought you'd have gone to the inside lol.
       Race was ok, with a few errors due to lack of track time . Came across a Ferrari parked facing the wrong way on DD, hit him square on and sent him merrily on his way and myself onto the grass :(- no damage though. The times we were in close company were dam'n good racing and this event goes down as great fun, despite my result,  and the sooner we're back here the better.
       

Absolutely no problems mate, tried to avoid you but I don't have enough control to get out of those yet. More racing needed lol. As far as I am concerned that was just racing mayhem off the line. Any way, don't worry 'cos if you get a penalty, I will have some to offset it!

I've been asked to explain submitting a replay clip as evidence for a moderated incident. You only need to do this in the case of contact and particularly for a incident where warp may be involved, which is where the server sees contact but the driver replays don't.

So, to submit your plea, sorry, report, click on the link near the top of the race thread ^ which opens a window for you with places to enter the time (in race minutes) of the incident, a report of the incident, the other drivers involved and at the bottom is the attach a replay option.

Just clip the incident from your own replay, save it and zip it up before submitting.

Anybody who does not submit a clip may find themselves penalised even though their replay may prove there was no contact. The moderators can only make their decisions based on the evidence that they have at the time. It is not possible to submit a clip later once you have been penalised. You must do it before the moderation.

The link above for submitting reports and clips generally stays open for a week after the race. The moderator then removes it when they begin to look at the incidents. If they want advice or input from the other moderators they will wait a few days for that to happen, so the mod may not be published in time for the next race in the event of a difficult incident or a particularly messy race.

You have been warned! MUHUHUHUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Better late than never, here's my race comment!
First of all, for who didn't realise about it yet, this was my first race for the Black Night Racing Team!!  :rockon:
Unfortunately the final results was under my expectations... :oops:

Qualify:
I pushed since the beginning but I wasn't able to reach my PB and I didn't understand why.
Then, I just discovered that I had a full tank...  :eek:
Back on track with only a splash of fuel and I immediately shaved my PB

Race:
Starting from 5th place on grid, behind Attilio, Norm, Ross and Ronnie, wasn't bad at all.
I had a very good start, and it's not that easy for me with the 65s, and I jumped in front of Ronnie.
Then, Norm braked for T1 earlier than I expected so I moved right to avoid any contact: unfortunately the banking of the track side pushed me back on track against Norm's car... Sorry mate!
Shift + R and Stop'n'G, I was on last place.
Lap after lap, I climbed some positions with some difficulties even if I was quicker that the other ones.
Then, at beginning of lap 15 when I was 9th, to avoid a collision with Blito I spun and I lost two positions.
On lap 21, after I was close to Karliss since some laps, I tried to pass him on the turn before the Dunlop bridge but we collided together... Sorry mate!!
At same time I was lapped by Attilio and I tried to follow his pace but, after two laps, I went wide on the same turn as I crashed against Karliss...
Lapped by Ronnie too, I avoided to follow his pace but I had Karliss and Norm glued to my Ferrari tail but after some laps I lost both of them and I finished 8th setting the 4th FL of the race, waiting for the moderators' decisions...
See you all down under for the last race of this great Novices Season!
Bye

Hi Fabio,
Although I can see that I was a fair bit slower into T1 than yourself ,I`m not quite sure how you can call that avoiding me as there was a decent gap between us. I think you just got over excited and gave it too many beans :D

Nige - the backwards Fezza at DD was Al. I think his spare change had dropped out of its slots and he was scrabbling around in his footwell for the coins.....

Had to miss this one due to a clash with another unamed sport (but we won, away in Copenhagen!). Rather a shame as I quite like the track and it promised some entertaining racing.

In the team championship we've been struggling in the Novices League this season so I'm pleased to welcome Fabio to the ranks of Black Night Racing.

Will see you for the closing battle at Adelaide.
 

I've seen better debuts........  ;D ;D ;D

Even if I don't understand 100% what does "to give too many beans" mean, I agree with you: as soon I saw you were beginning to spin I attached myself to the brake pedal with both feet and I started spinning too... :-[

...it was probably due to a "performance anxiety": it happens when you finally got a date with the most beautiful girl of the town  ;D ;D ;D

Thats very curious as I didnt spin at all. I didnt even look out of shape at that corner. I was just plain slow   ;D

Which, in this case, is far from the truth. We all know who SHE actually is!  ;)

@Blito - sometimes due to warp/lag, cars tend to keep drifting to the side in a corner and it appears as if they have lost control, only to "regain" it a second or two later. Maybe that's what happened on Fabio's end and what he reacted to.

Mod out already, I think this needs to be kicked up.

some question about Ppoints cos seems i dont understund how it works
1. if i have no PP at all and i do error with my fault i recieve 1 place lost + some PP for the future,right? (how much PP ?)
2. if i have some PP (less than 10), then if i do the same error i will recieve 1 place lost + some places lost(how much places it is? ), cos i allready have a PP in my past. right?
3. if i have more than 10PP then with the same error i will recieve 1place lost+ many places lost by PP, right?
4. what amount excatly it is, for no pp at all, with <5,<10, >10 etc....
5. if i have >10PP and do 2errors or 3, then seems, no point to race at all, cos there will be 3place lost by 3 incidents + 3 x many places lost by PP....
6. if i have 13PP and want to do race without places lost and with small error (what allways happens) i must wait 6month till my PP will expire?
7. otherwise some day i will have 20PP and when will be fighting for P1 during final lap, and will do error, i will be in last place?
can someone explain?
thanks

There's an example of how yellow cards (penalty points) operate here ; https://www.ukgpl.com/index.php/rules/yellow_card_example (https://www.ukgpl.com/index.php/rules/yellow_card_example)
You will see from the championship tables they apply separately in each division but can be accumulated for the purposes of racing bans, another example; https://www.ukgpl.com/index.php/rules/auto_race_ban_example (https://www.ukgpl.com/index.php/rules/auto_race_ban_example)

For next season, at the start, you will have no points showing next to you in the division tables but they will stay on your driver history until expiry. If there is a continuing accumulation of yellows all current unexpired penalty points can be taken into account when looking at ways to resolve a problem. As I have mentioned before bans are not taken lightly and factors to include are that the Novices are fully moderated, so will naturally incur more penalties, plus a drivers willingness to address any recurring issues.

Karlisss, we already had this discussion, you can still have a look at it in the thread of this season novices' race at Zandvoort.

In my understanding it works like this:

1) A penalty can consist of 1,2 or 3 lost places, depending on what infraction you have committed. You can check them out here https://www.ukgpl.com/index.php/rules/penalties ; if you click on the link to 'typical examples' for each kind of infraction, you will find a more detailed description of the penalty plus the number of places you lose for that specific infraction (for example, for the 'side by side contact': https://www.ukgpl.com/index.php/rules/side_by_side)

2) PPs are awarded in a simple way: you get 2 for each penalty (regardless of the infraction and the amount of places lost). You get 1 for each warning. No PPs for cautions. You can see this stated here: https://www.ukgpl.com/index.php/rules/yellow_card_example

3) Every 2 PPs above 2 you have, a place lost is added to your penalty: if you have 3 PPs, in the case you get a 1 place lost penalty you dont lose any positions for PPs; if you have 4 PPs, and get the same 1place lost penalty, 1 place lost is added to the tally for PPs; 5 penalty points will only add 1 place lost to whatever penalty, but 6 will add 2. This is explained in the link I have added in 2).

4)You are right, once you have piled up many PPs, every tiny wrongdoing is going to result in a massive amount of places lost. Unfortunately the implications of this often become clear only once you went through the process of amassing PPs and the damage has been done. Its a thing to bear in mind for next season.

5) The system is devised in order to promote safe racing and blah blah blah. The point is  though, you dont get penalised if you make proper mistakes, like losing the car, even if you end up collecting people when you spin, unless you were doing something extremely reckless. So, the name of the game is to put your mind to it, clarify what you can and cannot do and avoid risky moves, even if this somewhat limits your side by side racing for a while. I agree that this system can produce a rather 'schematic' racing, where you end up making certain moves to clarify you are driving within the rules, but thats the way the league works and it is not easy to find that fine line anyway.   

I don't think the system limits you to how you can conduct your racing against others. It simply prohibits overagressive moves which invade the space other drivers and either ends up in contact, or has them take evasive action to avoid contact.

I've had countless close, side by side racing and there was rarely a problem, as long as everyone sticks to their lines and doesn't make sudden moves and change of direction. You need to make sure that, whatever you do against other drivers, they are aware of your presence around them so they can act accordingly. Of course the responsibility goes both ways, so at the same time drivers should try to be as much aware as possible of what goes around them.

Karliss,

The point is that you can drive without getting penalties and still get a result. You have to give way and not get in the way of faster drivers carelessly as it ruins their race. I would have finished ahead of Nigel if I hadn't ceded to Ross as he was coming through but in letting him through I lost too much time and allowed Nigel and Alistair to catch me. My fault, but better than driving to win and then being penalised for ignoring blue flags.

You need to modify your driving so that you develop an awareness of where other cars are or may be. Demonstrate to the Moderator that you are driving in a co-operative manner and trying to learn from mistakes will lead to less penalties since you may find that incidents that you are largely to blame for are treated as racing incidents as the relative skill levels are sometimes a mitigating factor.

Nobody tries to crash but sometimes you need to drive to positively avoid a crash.

Yes, I didnt mean the rules make the racing schematic, I meant that once you have amassed many yellow card points, you may want to make sure not only to be within the rules, but that this is clear to read for the moderator. This should be the norm of course, but when a single warning can net you 5 lost places you may be compelled to give it that bit of additional attention.

Especially if you are driving in the midfield, losing 5 or more places can well put you in the position where you are better off parking it, since you will end last anyway. Unless you want to stay on for the fun of the racing. But you could end up getting a braking point wrong there, and that means...er...penalty points... ::)? You have to bear in mind that in Novices all collisions are moderated, and you might end up with a penalty even if the guy you hit goes on unscathed and you are the one going on a spin. Whereas in the other divisions, this kind of contact would end up unreported, and in general you have to p..s off the other guy enough for him to be bothered filing a report.

Incidentally, the rule of keeping yourself on your half of the road at all times, which is consistently applied in Novices, does make the racing a bit artificial, compared to racing on real tracks. Same goes for the 'not driving in the middle of the road' rule, or even the 'simple blocking' rule. Especially the defensive manoeuvres are very much limited in online league racing.  I am not saying any of these rules are wrong, I am just stating what I think is a fact of life. I am perfectly aware we already have enough collisions with these rules in place, there is certainly no scope in loosening them.

My 2 pence advise to Karliss would be: when you have someone you are racing around 1) draw a mental line through the road ahead and stick to your half, if you do so, even if a collision occurs, you are usually in the right; 2) pick a line and stick to it on the straights; 3) extra careful when rejoining, even at the cost of losing a position; 4) never, under any circumstances, tap someone from behind, because the rules say thats always your fault.

Now, before anyone says anything, I know I often forget to take advantage of that good advice myself whilst racing, thats why I have a discreet tally of yellow cards myself   8). But I am home recovering from a flu today, so I have decided to temporarily take on the position of 'good advice dispenser', just to kill time. :P
 

Anyway, I'm still contending for the Penalty Points title... :death:

You are in a class of your own in that one Fabio  :laugh:

ok, will try to remember that during RACE HEAT .
also before Adelaide some questions:

since Adelaide in my opinoin is very very hard track, and more harder if you want to be fast,
how to stay in one side of track especialy in split1 and split2, where racing line goes from one side to other side during short straights and tight corners... i dont see the meaning of it ,if attacking car is not 3 sec faster per lap.
your opinons?

also "Hakkinen95" corner, entering in in it from right side, means to loose some 1sec per lap + high risk to fly over curbs in Mika stile...
your opinions?

also T1 snake is totaly insane corner.. so how to react if during last corner i dont gain max speed and car behind goes in right me and puts front wheel besides my rear right wheel, how i must react in sportmanship whay? cos car didnt pass me, for taking T1 snake i need outside line, do i must stay at my left side? if so, then i will loose a place, cos i must HARD brake before snake to go through it from left side.also i can cause a car spin.. WHAT TO DO?

also in first section if i go on right side and car besides me in left, but didnt pass me jet, should i must let it pass, cos otherwise i can cause collision from my narrow right turn angle?

in Hakkinen95 corner, if i am in front of car, but during wide corner entering i fly over the curb loosing control in high speed and i am avoiding to brake hard, cos dont want to end up in wall, by this time rear car goes almost beside me. There is a narrow space where if you are lucky after flyght over curbs you can reenter on track (also do this area counts as outside track or inside track, cos curbs going in middle of street... but somewhere i reeded that all aphalt parts of Adelaide are in track) so, i must reenter, but car infront of me, other side (left) is whal... i cant think out at that moment to brake, cos for me in high speed it means SPIN+crash...(actualy i dont know what i will think out at that moment this is example)
What is the CORRECT way to do for me in this situation?

i see the best place in Adelaide where overtake a hairpin at the end of straight. also a place where to let pass in correct way laping cars.

i am just wondering, cose bether to get answers on these questions before race, than explanations after race...

asking all this cos seem only victory for me in this season is penalty point standings....(shame)

You should've shown up for the 65 Adelaide practice we just had in BREASTS, Karlisss. You could search and download previous 65 Adelaide races we had in UKGPL and see how it worked out.

Anyway, it's rare that someone would be crazy enough to enter those narrow sections side by side, unless it's a leading car vs. a backmarker. It's possible in the slower bits, but not at the corner you mention. One of the cars should obviously lift up and slot behind the other, and wait for the long straight to make a pass.

You don't really have to make plans for all those possible scenarios. Just do what you feels as the most common sense and avoid hitting other cars or getting into their path once they commit to a line. It comes with experience.

Hristo is right, anybody thinking about passing you from the last corner along the straight and into T1 would need to be past by T1 or back out of it, it is not a good place to pass, but if they are lapping you there, then you can help by lifting off the throttle for half a second or so, you can do that in most places. Anybody quick enough to lap you will either do it on their own or just need a little help from you but not too much to ruin your own battle.

The first sector, yes the racing line changes from one side to the other, so if somebody gets alongside you on the right, they should stay on the right and you should stay on the left until one is past the other, then you can go back to the racing line. As you say this is slower than the racing line, but that is the same in real racing. 2 cars battling will be slower than 1 car on its own. That is not a mistake on your part, that is just a fact. You cannot always have the racing line during a race and not every lap in a race will be a fast lap. Like Schumacher used to demonstrate, to win a race you only have to be very fast at the right time.

If you are practising driving off the racing line your lap times will not be as fast as hot laps but it is a skill you need to learn for when you need it.

I didn't mean T1, but the fast right-hand kick on top of the hill before the long straight, which I think Karliss meant as well (the one where Hakkinen had his bad accident in '95). But yeah, you're right about T1 as well, it's rather quick in these cars. Basically, the longer the braking distance into a corner, the safer it is to go for a pass there.

Don't cut the right hand curb at the second part of T1 - you will, more often than not roll it. If a faster car is following you in that early part of the lap it is difficult to let them past easily without losing bags of time but if you are getting blue flags you have no choice - know where they are and hold a predictable line and maybe lift off. The faster car will be able to get past with their superior control and speed. I agree - this is a hard track but it is easy to overdrive it - you need to be patient. Plenty of room to pass on the last part of the lap but at the early part you will have to listen and live in your mirrors. I am dreading it! (and looking forward to it!)

Paul, cutting the second part of T1, the right-hander IS CRUCIAl to a good lap time. Of course, I don't mean riding it with all 4 wheels, but climbing it fairly high nonetheless. Just wait until I post my track guide and you'll see.  ;D

When you have your skill level its crucial, when you have mine it is disastrous! When I said cut it, I was talking about real corner cutting, the kerb is fairly high and if you overdo it, it is easy to roll. The difference between rolling it and saving time is too fine for my level of control and whilst Karliss is a lot faster than me, he is not in your league (yet).

I'll look forward to your guide. I'll study it, try and then ignore it as too d*mned hard ;D

Yes, there's a limit of cutting T1 beyond which you just unsettle the car too much as it jumps over and lands hard on the tarmac, and you lose the ideal line for the left-hand kink after the chicane. If you lose the car too easily over the curbs, try to keep a level throttle while you're going over them, instead of decelerating or accelerating.

and none of this means anything to me... maybe i should get some practise in!

Practice Servers seem to prefer Italy ATM.  :(

In view of the concerns for Adelaide I will have 5.UKGPL up over most of the weekend so feel free to jump on there.

Cheers Mike - you are a saint.  :angel:

What concerns?

People driving online against humans and not crashing.

hmm.. the kerbs here are evil! there will be carnage :(

No Adelaide thread for the Novices race yet, but here is what you've been waiting for:

http://racingleague.co.cc/hikiwaza/track-guides/adelaide-track-guide-and-onboard-lap-in-1965-honda-ra272/

Get it while it's still warm!  ;D

Awesome lap Hristo and riding the curbs at the start of the lap looks brilliant. I know you personally don’t think it should be illegal to use the curbs and go through them, especially on some of the corner exits, as it’s the safer and easier thing to do.

But for Ross and Attlio that looks like a risky option with the champioship at stake. Both in terms of an accident during the race and being penalised by the moderator post race for too many wheels off the track! Either would be a sorry way to throw ones chances away.

Me on the other hand well I'm off to give it a go, thanks!

Well, in the 4-5 Adelaide league races I've had so far over the years, there was never a question about going too high over the curbs. It's not like cutting them is easy, the more you cut the higher the risk, so it's a fair trade IMO. Besides, once you have a good setup and get used to riding the curbs, you'll find that it's actually the safer and easier thing to do.

Oh and I've always consisdered the curbs as part of the track, but it depends. For instance, on a track like Donington which has near-flat curbs, cutting is a real issue, because you can drive over them almost effortlessly.

I ran a race yesterday, and was very much all over the place, I ran wide beyond the curb at the kink before the long straight more than once, but the game didnt black flag me. When I had a check with GPLRA I didnt get any [64] beside those laps, so not sure how they are going to police it anyway. Thats a bit that probably should be clarified by the mods before the race, but I would hate to get a penalty because I ended up with 4 wheels on a curb, its pretty likely to happen if you actually use them during your lap.

I'm only having some pre race fun with you and Ross.

I'm sure their will be no problems with the mods. Worth checking with them but like Hristo says its safer using the curbs in some places and in others you just can't help but use them. Way off Hristos pace at the moment myself, I hope its going better for you and Ross.

Well, it was actually a good point, I had a go with GPLRA precisely to check out this thing, there was much talking about curb riding in the last breast race on wednsday.

As for your pace, I would hope you to be way off H's pace on Tuesday as well, that laptime is ridiculously quick, I think the current WR is totally eclipsed by that...

Why should it be policed at all? There's tarmac beyond the curbs and the fact is, those curbs were manually placed in reality onto the road sections to slow the cars down and prevent the track from becoming a wide Monaco. In the end, it's the same for everyone and I think the time gained is a fair reward for those who wish to take bigger risks by using more of the curbs and beyond.

The problem with trying to stay within the curbs at some corners is that you have to slow down a lot more and turn the car more, and you can easily lose control of the car by doing that, especially if the rear wheels climb over the curb while you're trying to keep the frontend off them.

There is nothing wrong with using kerbs, but anybody with all 4 wheels on or beyond the kerb edge will risk being penalised. We have not really seen it done before in Novices so I made everybody aware of it after Castle Combe.

https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=8669#event2390

The only time I have known it be allowed to happen here is earlier this season in Amateurs by a unanimous or majority decision, but that is not the case here, so it will not be allowed as a rule.

The reason you haven't been black flagged in races for cutting corners is perhaps either because the server has checkpoints disabled or the checkpoints are very lenient. I know at Albi they are not lenient and if checkpoints are enabled it is difficult to do a clean lap according to the server.

I've posted the Adelaide race announcement so please continue the Adelaide discussions there, thanks.

https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=9077.0

I didn't mean checkpoints at all, Mike. If you load up all previous UGKPL Amateurs and BREASTS races at Adelaide, you'll see most people using as much of the kerbs as possible, and going beyond some of them on corner exits, such as the one leading on the Brabham Straight. There were never penalties for doing so and it was accepted as normal. Plus I've had a couple of oAo races there which were conducted in the same manner.

It's not actually possible to cut the chicane completey and gain time, or get away with maintaining control of the car, so really not an issue. You're more likely to crash out or not gain any time than anything else. The safest and fastest line is definitely within and over the curbs, not cutting through them, with the exception of the above-mentioned corner exit.