SimRacing.org.uk

WELCOME TO THE UKGPL SEASON 21 HISTORIC (66) TROPHY  

For the first round we go to Italy. The Panchine track may be a fantasy but it is fast, has sticky hedges and a nasty jump so be aware.

There will be full moderation of lap one, and then reported incidents for the rest of the race. Please submit incident reports within a week after the race so that the moderators report may be out before the next race.

Please restrict chat to a minimum, (or maybe none).

Best of luck.
 
Race List =         iGOR
Server =            UKGPL_T7_2
IP Address =       62.149.202.168
Race date =       26-04-2011
Time =              21.00 UK time
Track =             Panchine     Autodromo Nazionale delle Panchine
Variant =           66F1 3L engines
Damage Model =  PRO
Qualifying time = 35 minutes. Do not start driving until 30 min left.
Race length =     Pro Long (26 laps)

The track can be downloaded from: http://www.javinester.co.uk/gpl/panchine.html (http://www.javinester.co.uk/gpl/panchine.html)


Group I
Mclaren M2B Ford
T1G Eagle Weslake


Group II
Lotus 43 BRM Ford    
BRM P83
 

GroupIII
Ferrari 312
Brabham BT19
Cooper T81
Honda RA273


Drivers Restricted to cars from Group I



Drivers Restricted to cars form Group II or Group I



All drivers have free chassis choice.


Password: see above (#post_event_password)
(2) Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R;group=304;theme=6)

I don't like that we use restrictions for the first round. It goes against the meaning of the handicap system which only kicks in based on points standings. As it is, we all have 0 points at the start, so it doesn't make sense.  ::)

It's a new season, it has nothing to do with S20.

i guess it's like the golf system , so better players can do rounds with those less skillful .

so it's not against the handicap system just a different one , so it does make sense .

one other thing Hristo i'm not saying i'm for or against this system , i'm just saying it's a valid system with different approach to the others .

john

I guess it all depends on wether or not you approve of handicap races. Sometimes its a good thing but it can lead to some slightly distorted results. Certainly if I were to beat Hristo in a race perhaps it would be wise to question the depth of the handicapping.
years ago, during the Wireplay GPL league, we ran a handicapping system that set a benchmark time that no driver was allowed to exceed. This gave the faster drivers a full choice of chassis and all manner of ways of restricting their own speed. It made for some good close racing but did fustrate the faster guys on occasion.

Not suggesting any changes but, out of interest, how did that work? ie how did you stop someone exceeding a benchmark and what stopped someone setting a 'false' time (could be done with Prib) then opening up in the race? I am assuming the restriction only applied in qually and not the race itself.

I don't really understand what you're saying, guys. We have a handicap system for Historics. It's based on points standings. I don't have a problem with it and it works well in my opinion, I like it. Each championship should be treated separately though and with a handicap system like this one, everyone should be given an equal start. I simply fail to see any other logic except "let's handicap Hristo and Evil further more as a compensation for beating us in S20."

Not suggesting any changes H I'm just interested as to how the system Jason mentions worked.

PS: I'm keeping out of this one as I'm not the division mod but I would mention exactly the same thing happened last season (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=8507#event2347), and the season before that, and no one raised it as an issue.

Well, I'm raising it now, especially with the new points system.  :) Just want to understand the logic behind it.

I must say I kind of agree with you on this one Hristo. Even if I do understand where it comes from. When I took over as mod for the Historic I did not think much about it, just a little humm, OK and so it stayed.

But it really builds on the idea that most things are static, like the same drivers and no one improving, - or impairing - . But if new, or old, fast drivers join then it really misses the point, so if I do not get any good reason too keep it over the next couple of days I will remove the handicapping for the first race.

Göran

If I didn't believe drivers can improve then I wouldn't be bothering half as much. I think we see a lot of evidence of people improving. Anyway, if it's been decided and you won't budge on it, so be it, but I hope this would be the last time...

I didn't see such a thing, lol. Did I misunderstand something?

Ah I just noticed... well he's not decided yet obviously.

Sorry I modified my answer after you had posted or something and now it's deleted LOL.
Anyway I think that says it's dropped unless anyone raises a good reason why not too...

Well, I did practice with the McLaren yesterday, tricky track.  :)

"This season drivers will be seeded and allocated a chassis group for the first race, this should prevent the first round being a virtual spec race."

Yes or no???

It's not like it matters to you, Ronnie. Regardless of whether we go this way or not, it's only me and Evil who were grouped, so you have free car choice anyway. Read the bottom of the first post.

I had a strange sense of deja-vous when I downloaded this track.  :o

I did not recognise the name of the circuit and thought  it was going to be a new track to learn. But, I have definitely driven this circuit before, although many, many years ago and when the only mod option was 67's.
It must have been in my early on-line days because I now recall it sa an absolute sod of a circuit that saw me in the barriers at almost every bend!!! Things have improved a little because I find that I am now in the barriers at every 2nd bend  ;).

I seem to recall that there were quite a few drivers from Hristo's area of the world when I was here last, and they were all disturbingly fast and consistant...unlike my efforts.  It was maybe a track that had just been released? back then and it may have been a BREASTS race.

Whatever, it is a great track and should provide some interesting racing. Looks like it might be a fun circuit for GT's too  ;D.

It does matter to me Hristo. I did read the rules before I signed up (did you?) and thought they had been agreed and it seems very strange whether I or anyone else likes dislikes agrees or disagrees with them that we are contemplating changing them a few days before the first race. Your right this particular modification has little or no bearing on me personally and I concur that handicapping seems unnecessary in the first race of a new season. I am merely seeking clarification now to avoid turning up on the night to find this and possibly other changes which might affect me or anyone else. I just like to know the rules before I start thats all.

I had exactly the same feeling, as well as by reading the name of the track! It took me a lap or two to recognize some places, especially T1, and remember that I drove it some 5 years ago when it was released, in a 65 test race.  ;D Not that I actually knew the layout well and it's quite different in these 3L 66s.

BTW, a tip - do not follow the shitty groove line. It's so wrong in places...

ahem?!!! When have you ever noticed me following the groove line on any track??!! ::)

The tip was not for you!  ;D

This track has an unexpected advantage to it - when the kinks are flat out, the hedges have less resilience than you'd expect.  Nonetheless, I'm doing my best to clear a path. ;D 

The question is - can you take the last turn flat out?!  ;D

Absolutely!  Mind you, clearing a path through the wall is proving to be a problem. >:(

ALL DRIVERS WILL HAVE FREE CHOICE OF CAR FOR THIS RACE!!


You are right of cause Ronnie, only this time I change it because when Hristo raised the issue I begun thinking about the consequences and came to the conclusion that if a new/old fast driver joins the series he/she would have an advantage that was not fair. So the handicaps will be from the championship standings only and for the first race all have 0 points so no one will be handicapped.

Göran

Haha, I just saw your reply. How does it matter to you what car me or Evil are allowed to take, given that all the rest of the drivers were already given free car choice? And what have the rules to do with that?  ::)

Even before I brought this up, the race thread clearly stated "group 1 Hristo, group 2 Evil, everyone else has FREE car choice".  :)

Its not a big deal Hristo. No problem.

Also, this track has the start/finish line in the braking zone for T1. So if you are certain you've nailed your lap, you can gain a few extra tenths by going banzai into T1 without braking. This is one of only two tracks that have this feature, the other being Bounty Beach.

Tommie.

I've put up a practice server - it's biased towards practice so 30 mins practice 8 lap race.

Please let me know if you have any problems joining.

My domain got blocked for no reason again, so I won't be able to make the track guide I planned for this one. Here's the lap I prepared though:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9zQ_OvdQ1A

Here's also a ZIP file with the setup and replay:

http://www.lineage2universe.com/downloads/66_panchine_honda_setup_replay.zip

Just back from few holiday days: does anybody has a fezza setup to post? :angel:

Stupid Brabham and it's silly loose wheel nuts  :cursing:

Might have been able to hang onto H and Clive, but got clobbered by Goran on the exit to T1 and was spunded - thankfully no damage, seemingly the same was true for the other dance-class attendees  :)

Was making good time and slowly clawing back up towards Mike when I ran wide into one of the esses and lightly ( ;) ) clipped the fence - game over  :(

Appologies to Phil for getting frighteningly closs and also to Ronnie, that wasn't intended as a rejoin - I was simply carrying too much speed to slow and still make that corner on the grass without sliding out onto the track  :ninja:

What a way to end a race!! :-\

Apologies to Phil for ending his at the same time.

I had been tailing Hristo for the whole race when we caught Phil as we croseed the jump. Hristo got through cleanly and I was travelling slightly faster than Phil but realised that we were going to take the fast right hander side by side ...probably not a good idea I thought.

I suspect Phil had the same thought, because as I eased off fractionally to tuck in behind him, I think he also slowed to allow me to pass. The result was bad for both of us and I touched his rear wheel ending both our races.

Having haunted Hristo for the whole race and planned where I might just have a chance of snatching the win ( only planned it, not guaranteed success ::) ) it was a bit of an anti climax!!

grats to Hristo for setting a cracking pace and to all the other finishers. Sorry again Phil, but I think we both got it fractinally wrong mate.  :-[

NP - you were quicker on the corners but the power of the Fez allowed me to stay with you on the straights which made it difficult for you to get past.

Praccy went OK until last 5 seconds, then my Force Feedback started behaving oddly.  Didn't have any feeling once grip got marginal so it made the esses more difficult for me.  Went off a few times in the race because of that.  Afterwards found out what it was.  Windows had decided to try to install a driver for an internet enabled TV :taz:  Got autoupdates and virus scans disabled but don't know how to stop windows doing that :(.

Anyway race was reasonable.  Got a great start thanks to the L1 T1 shunt.  I managed to pick my way through the scattered cars and ended up 4th.  But from them on it was a backwards slide.  Had a lot of quicker drivers behind me and they all gradually got past.  Last person to attack me was Nigel Smith.  He got past me under braking for the second slow corner but the draft caught him out and he went in a bit hot and ran wide into the hedge so I managed to get the place back.

After that it was a matter of waiting to be lapped.  Got caught by Hristo and Evil who were having a great battle.  They caught me at the esses so I stayed well left on the long straight to let them both past.  H sailed by and I couldn't see Evil so I thought he was on my inside on the approach to the fast right hand kink.  As I decided to back off to let him through, Evil decided to tuck in behind me consequently we touched and we were both out of the race :(.  Sorry M8.

NP Phil, just one of those things... a racing incident.
 
In hindsight it would have been better to stay out of your blindspot and in your slipstream before going for the pass. But at the time, believe it or not, I was trying to play safe and avoid any contact!!

This is a lovely track to drive - fast, and with enough challenges to keep ones attention at all times.  Pinpoint accuracy being rewarded with faster laptimes.  I'd put together a lovely setup, and was hoping for a goodly result for my efforts.

I was mid-grid and almost last, after a tangle dead ahead of me, following the first corner.  I would think there were tyre marks on both sides of the car, through squeezing between our two rotational protagonists.  :o

Having escaped the horrors, my race became a solo effort, with only a pitboard challenge from FMG early on, and new man Raoni, towards the finish.  So, with 2nd place assured, I entered the last lap with a bit of a cough, and promptly ran out of fuel!  This was a 1st for me in '66ers, and one would hope, it's also a
last.  Grumble! >:(

Some seriously impressive formation flying from the Waza's up front, for much of the race.  And a fair turn of speed, from newcomer Raoni, from the pit lane.  Now excuse me, while I go sulk some more.

Sorry for the clobbering Tim, I did not expect you to try that and when I saw you it was too late. I guess you tend to expect things from other drivers based upon what you would do yourself and I was holding back a bit to avoid coming too close to Hristo and Evil through T1 and thought the rest of you would do the same. I was wrong of cause and I ought to know that by now I guess. Anyway I am glad that no one was out of the race because of it but it kind of gave Hristo and Evil an easy run.

When I got running again I was not that far behind so off I went, literally. Because my overtaking skill has not improved and I found myself making one silly mistake after the other when trying to make up for lost ground. Unable to pass I just had to wait and that went above expectations because at the end I found myself on the podium.

It seems I need like 10 laps and no one nearby to get into the rhythm. But once I did my laptimes were rather OK and at the time I was in 8Th position and had Fulvio 17 sec ahead. On lap 23 I passed him !!! up to 4Th, nice math right. But had I known before I passed him that he would connect somehow to my gearbox I would have waited until the last lap because the 3 laps remaining was really hard work. But I managed to stay in front and when I crossed the finish line, (OK so I will not be driving the Ferrari for some time due to some repair because of the, hummm, accident after the finish line), I found out that Martin who was running a steady second after Evil`s departure, had run out of fuel on the last lap, there we have the math again, it`s not that easy  ;D

Well, luckily it is the position when crossing the finish line that counts not the position after the first lap and this time that was to my advantage.

Congrats to Hristo for the win and to Raoni for second, nice start to your UKGPL career.

Göran

Wasn't trying anything Goran, We started side-by-side, and entered T1 side-by-side so I stayed wide and prepared to be destroyed on the straight by your fezza power. Havn't checked the replay yet to see if you clipped a curb or something but was suprised when you touched me  :)
No damage done so I'm not bothered, it was just unexpected is all  :)

I'm glad to win, but a bit sad that Evil couldn't finish and make it a 1-2 for us Wazas.

Qualifying did not go so well because it appeared some people (not just you, Fulvio) were just learning the track and going extremely slow in places which are taken flat out, so I had a couple of incident and ruined laps as a result.

The start of the race and the early laps went well, with just Evil following me and exchanging places initially, before settling down. Evil, just as an advice so we don't slow each other down next time - when you make a pass, get back in front of me before the next corner! I'm not driving a 10 meters long car so you can safely slot back in, lol. Also, when I went on the outside of the straight, you could've used the slipstream and get in front before the next corner instead of forcing us to enter it side by side by not picking up enough speed.

Anyway  ;D , despite going flat out I couldn't shake off Evil, except once but then I binned it by totally missing my braking point for the slow right at the end of the fastest bit of the track, and went off into the bushes. Fortunately I managed to extract myself almost instantly by going into reverse gear, but gave Evil a scare as he had to swerve to avoid me. I thought you would see me, but I guess I was wrong - sorry about that.

Then we caught up Phil with a couple of laps to go and he let me through on the inside going into the sweeping right hander before the jump, and when I looked into my mirrors it seemed Evil was going to follow through. I was focusing on the track ahead so I didn't really see what happened, but I guess he didn't follow through, lol.

Managed to set my best lap on the last lap, so bonus objective completed as well.  :D Then I watched Goran's valiant effort to keep Fulvio behind and he managed to do so, but then died or got badly injured going flat out into T1 after the finish.  :(

Grats to all finishers!

-=Hristo=-

Congrats to the podium and all who finished. Sorry about the slight contact in the esses Tim. Despite being short and sweet and ending up buried in a hedge, I still enjoyed the track and cars and am looking forward to more.

For me, a very good debut here in UKGPL. Had a lot of fun all the race! The track is great, the 66's cars are very funny to drive and the result couldn't be better, especially because I wasn't too fast to get a 2nd place.

I arrived home a bit late, and when I entered igor thre was only 1 minute remaining to finish the qualy. I was able to join the server, but didn't settled a time and even put my car on the grid during the 30 seconds. So, I had to start from the pitlane.

For my surprise, still on lap 1 I managed to catch some cars, maybe involved in some accident. During the 1st halp of the race I had great battles into the intermediate group. After that, I arranged myself in a comfortable 5th place, 10 seconds distant from 4th and 6th places.

Then someone in front of me (I don't remeber who) had some problems and abandoned the race. Some laps later I grow 3rd due to Evil's accident. And finally, on the last lap, I ascended to 2nd, when Martin ran out of fuel. Certainly, a lucky race for me, because viewing the fastest laps table it would be impossible for me getting a podium without others abandons.

Grats Hristo for the win! It really amazes me how fast you and others drivers here can handle those cars :o And congratulations for all the finishers! I liked so much driving here and can't wait for the next race :D

Raoni Frizzo

It wasn't Fulvio but myself...  ;)
Sorry again, but I should find a place with a locking door when racing online, otherwise my two daughters and my wife will continue to distract me...

Anyway, I should haven't raced yesterday: I was too tired because the trip back from Easter holidays and few practice.

So, after few laps, my race end as I expected...

Thx to the podium, to everybody raced and to the race organization

A very special thanks to Phil for sharing his fezza setup: really appreciated!

You AND Fulvio then. :) It's your choice, it's not forbidden to do it of course, it's just that more than one of my laps got ruined by it in this particular event so it caught my attention. No problems in the race in that regard, so not real harm done I guess.

And you really should either lock the door or tell your family not to intrude, lol. I have specifically given instructions that nobody is to enter my room when I have a race and I tell them when I hav eon in advance so they know about it. Otherwise I have to resort to yelling for any intrustion while I'm driving...  ;D

I reviewed this race in detail because Goran asked me to write a race report - finally decided to have a go. What a fun track - we really out to use if for the Novices. Did five laps and got down to a 2:03 with almost no setup work so plenty to come but a 1:52 - I don't think so.  :laugh:  Maybe I should join this series. Really impressed by the standard of racing. Very good.

The Moderator`s report is published, be sure to read the stunning race report by Paul.

Göran

Yeah, great race report Paul!

If I am going to do one for Falkenberg it would be REALLY helpful if there could be a mass T1 L1 pileup taking out, say, 10 racers! I had to manually review every racer for every lap at Panchine and you guys were way too clean. Even Tim and Goran didn't have the grace to lose a wheel or two on the first lap :(

Anyway, everybody gets a mention. Hope you like it and it makes you smile.

Great report, Paul, a good read!

Nice reading Paul, thx!  :)

Great report Paul, you've got a job for life now ;)

Hmmmm  ???