SimRacing.org.uk

UKGPL Season 21 Porsche Super Cup
Race 7 Mexico

Welcome to race 7 of the Porsche Super Cup which takes us to the drug capital of the world, Mexico, which hosts the highest circuit of the season in front of the lines of armed police with the dark sunglasses and only white tyres for protection.

Mexico has a very difficult T1 for a full grid, and accidents to the outside or at the chicane tend to come back onto the track because of the barriers and notorious polos. The wide Start Finish straight tempts the unwary into trying to go two or even three abreast but be careful and don't forget that lap 1 incidents attract an extra penalty place.

Tyres are cold at the start, your control will suffer- and if you are on the inside be aware that there may be a car outside you, if on the outside don't get stuck on the armco.

Please see the Porsche Super Cup registration thread for an explanation of the Team Setups:
https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=9197.msg166098#msg166098

1 TEAM NAME - Pasti Porsche - SERVER 2
Driver 1 - Pro - Tom Van Ostade
Driver 2 - Am - Nicky Ickx
Driver 3 - Nov - Norbert

2 TEAM NAME - Porsche International - SERVER 1
Driver 1 - Pro - Juha Hallikainen
Driver 2 - Nov - Ronniepeterson
Driver 3 - Nov - Axel Cookie

3 TEAM NAME - Clark Hill - SERVER 2
Driver 1 - Am - Geoff Heard
Driver 2 - Am - Steve Bird
Driver 3 - Am - Vlad Vosblod
Reserve - Nov - Happy Al

4 TEAM NAME - Hiki-Waza 1 - SERVER 1
Driver 1 - Pro - Hristo
Driver 2 - Nov - Paul
Driver 3 - Nov - Blito

5 TEAM NAME - Hiki-Waza 2 - SERVER 2
Driver 1 - Pro - Evil Clive
Driver 2 - Nov - Nigel Smith
Driver 3 - Nov - Karliss

6 TEAM NAME - Black Knight - SERVER 2
Driver 1 - Pro - G Jonsson
Driver 2 - Am - Pedro
Driver 3 - Nov - il_lupo_mannaro

7 TEAM NAME - Team Coyote - SERVER 1
Driver 1 - Pro - Raoni Frizzo
Driver 2 - Nov - Jonny'O
Driver 3 - Nov - Du Fossa

8 TEAM NAME - Team 7 - SERVER 2
Driver 1 - Pro - Fulvio Policardi
Driver 2 - Am - Bob Whitwell
Driver 3 - Nov - s2173

9 TEAM NAME - Team GPFun - SERVER 1
Driver 1 - Pro - Andrea Tendas
Driver 2 - Am - Sergio Lonzar
Driver 3 - Nov - Roberto Baldassarri
Reserve - Am - Gianni Sellitto

10 TEAM NAME - Pastit Porsche - SERVER 1
Driver 1 - Am - Phil Thornton
Driver 2 - Am - Natan
Driver 3 - Nov - Francesco

11 TEAM NAME - LOL'Team 1 - SERVER 2
Driver 1 - Pro - Tom Guérout
Driver 2 - Am - Eric Goubinat
Driver 3 - Nov - Maxime Lenclen
Reserve - Eric Daon

12 TEAM NAME - LOL' Team 2 - SERVER 1
Driver 1 - Pro Tristan Bot
Driver 2 - Am - Dave Rainier
Driver 3 - Nov - Arf Arf Arf
Reserve - Roberto Vianna

All drivers may join the server immediately but are asked not to go out on track until there are 30 minutes of qualifying left as this helps all drivers join the server successfully.

Please restrict chat to pit messages if necessary, and this includes the end of the race, until all running drivers have completed the necessary laps.

The Porsche Super Cup Races will be run across 2 Servers, under Pro rules and will be approximately 50 minutes in length.
Lap 1 will be fully moderated and thereafter will be reported incidents only.

SERVER 1
Race List = IGOR
Server = UKGPL_T7_2
IP address = 62.149.202.168
Race date = 29/07/2011
Time = 21:00 UK time
Track = Mexico
Variant = GT67
Damage Model = PRO
Qualifying time = 35 minutes. Don't start until 30 mins left on clock to allow everyone to join.
Race length = 27 laps
Password: see above (#post_event_password)

SERVER 2
Race List = IGOR
Server = GPG_8
IP address = 62.195.32.131
Race date = 29/07/2011
Time = 21:00 UK time
Track = Mexico
Variant = GT67
Damage Model = PRO
Qualifying time = 35 minutes. Don't start until 30 mins left on clock to allow everyone to join.
Race length = 27 laps
Password: see above (#post_event_password)

The Team Championship Standings can be found here:
https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=309&theme=6

GT67 Mod: The GT67 Mod for GPL can be downloaded here:
http://www.sportscarlegends.net/index.html

Apologies for the lateness of the race post.

Also, the Solitude mod is not yet completed as I have just got back from holidays.

I hope to do it over the weekend.

Mea culpa  :-[

Forgot to post the Novices until Sunday night as well...

T7 and GPG.8 servers are ready set for 27 laps Long race and listening on Igor.
Ciao

Stefano I sent you a PM.
Bob is on holiday this week, can you race this night or are you on holiday too?
Thx
Ciao

Broken engine at 3rd lap when in 3rd place... :censored:

Not my best race. According to a news report some vandals had broken into the circuit overnight and poured glue all over the big gravel trap.
Finding myself stuck in it I was a mile down from the pack when I finally got out. The glue was still stuck to one wheel which affixed itself to the track and came off a little further on.
Not the best night for the CH team.

not a best racing, first laps was close with Hristo,Sergio and Tristan. In the hairpin they slowed down and i hit Hristos car not intentionally, no place to go, sorry. :-[

sorry for that another driver i cause to retire, my fault all.

Really enjoyed the race. I thought it was over at the start of Lap 3 when a slow recovering car came across the track and I couldn't avoid him. Didn't help that he only had three wheels. Anyway, sorry Fran! Hefty biff but I was OK amazingly. Then had some fun racing Roberto and we passed each other about five times with mistakes matching mistakes  ;) but then he had a problem whilst being lapped and disappeared. I suspect it was Tristan. Jason had obviously also been involved in an incident because I caught him and he was SLOW on the straights. We had some nice laps together which were nip and tuck. Me on the ragged edge, him with a 2 stroke engine. Made it about even  :D When he went out I inherited eleventh and that became tenth when I passed a stricken Martin.

I was fairly even paced about twelve seconds a lap behind the leaders  ;D and I got a major shock when Sergio and H appeared about two yards behind me. I was so wrapped up in my battle with Jason I forgot the leaders - didn't see any blue flags so thank goodness they are good enough to avoid me. Sorry boys.

Hope I was thoughtful enough for any others because I got lapped... a lot  :D Fun though and as I said to Goran afterwards (sort of) "I am getting better. I am now just bad". Happy with my progress though and this season I am disappointed if I don't get some racing. Still plenty of lonely times though.

WD to everyone who finished.

As I'm going away for a few days**, just tried to submit my incident reports, but got a message saying the zip failed because "Error(s) while uploading attachments: Array (

• => directory_full )"

As such I do not know if the description of *that* incident has been uploaded or whether I need to do the whole thing again. Please advise mods. Thanks.

This was the most fun I've had in GPL thus far. For as long as it lasted, I'd just like to say thanks to Raoni for the one lap battle we had - several sensible decisions made by both of us on line and level of aggression. It ended at the hairpin on Lap 2...... I make no comment publicly on *that* incident, as tempers seemed high in iGor afterwards, and I don't wish to fan the flames. In MOD we trust......

Thanks also to my team mate Rainier who made the brilliant decision to accept I was faster and let me past after I span and caught him up - cheers!!! Delighted to see he came in behind me. If the race had been much longer you may just have caught me, cos my engine was dying....

..which is why I could not have caught Ronnie, despite getting closer and closer. Respect for the consistency of your lapping!! I was actually glad that H and Clouds lapped me just before the flag, as I knew that meant I didn't have to do another lap and P5 was secure. However, chasing him for lap after lap, having to be brave in the corners because I'd lost top end grunt, was thrilling.

And lastly, sorry that my spin contributed to Andrea's retirement on Lap 4. I didn't think I could move until you had passed, but it wasn't to be. I will submit an incident report and let the mods decide if I should have done anything differently.

Roll on Rouen!!

Arf^3

** Won't be far from home on Sunday, but I will have been in the pub since 1300hrs. If anyone sees me online for the Works race feel free to suggest that I should **** off before I cause an accident  ;D

What happened to the grid on the second server, only 10 starters????

Quite a good race for me.  I only made 2 mistakes, the first one was when I was trying to stay ahead of JohnnyO.  I clipped a polo which caused me to spin and I rejoined behind JohnnyO and my team mate Martin (Maddog).  The second mistake was a spin on the next lap at T1.  By then I was a good 17 seconds behind Martin so I just settled down and tried to drive a consistent pace.  I watch prib and noticed Martin had got past JohnnyO to pick up more points for Pastit Porsche  :clap:

For the next 20 or so laps the gap to JohnnyO was pretty constant.  I past a couple of back markers and I got lapped by Sergio and Hristo (incredible pace from those 2) so it looked like the result was decided.  But then I passed Martin with a smoking engine :( and then with just 2 laps to go prib showed JohnnyO was loosing ground.  So I pushed hard and managed to pass JohnnyO in the run down to T1 on the last lap.  I had Juha on my tail trying to lap me but I didn't want to pull over in case I lost the place to JohnnyO.  I don't think I held Juha back much and it wouldn't of affected the outcome, he was circulating on his own by then.

Unlucky Francesco, I saw you crash out at the last turn.  You were very quick up to that point.

Motor Racing is dangerous - I opted for the rear of the grid, to stay out of harm's way.  Then started round the bend, because the grid spacings were rather large!  This meant, the front row had a ten second lead, before the unviewable green flag flew! :-\

I rummaged around at the rear of the field, looking for cars who'd misplaced their driver's, and snapped up several, in the early laps.  Then continued to circulate, without mingling, until the leader caught my mirror, followed by myself.  As he wafted by, my motor became discouraged, and commenced to smoke heavily.  I returned to the much practiced, limp mode, and gasped onward for another 2 or 3 laps, before expiring. :(  

Thus are lives and championships, won and lost.  Well done Phil - live long and prosper!

Several things to clear up.

I couldn't see the flag either :( saw you twitch though Martin  ;D

I can't submit a replay either and I think that facility is not currently available to anyone. The server replay is available and the incident that Colin refers to (lap 1 hairpin) is captured on there. Don't forget that Lap 1 is fully moderated anyway so it will come under scrutiny.

Drivers should ensure that they have their client replays and we will find a different way to submit them. I am presently working on something for UKGPL_3 where drivers can upload a replay. Watch this space on that one.

The grid on server 2 was very thin because drivers didn't turn up sadly. We set the teams on the servers so that each team faces each other team once or twice so that there is a good mix. All the drivers on Server 1 turned up and only half the drivers on Server 2. Pity really.

Juha - Lap 1 - server shows no contact between H and yourself but we will report on it in good time.

LOL

Paul

The incident I referred to is definitely Lap 2 hairpin, which also explains why Juha shows no contact on Lap 1.

You appear to have inferred that the text I submitted HAS been uploaded, and I do not need to resubmit?

As irritating as it may be, given that we upload the times as part of the incident report, I assume mods will be able to look through the master copy for each incident? This assumes a fix ain't found for the current issue.

Cheers

Arf

Maybe they should only get half points.  ;)

Its OK, I worked it out. You didn't infer anything, and it hadn't submitted. It has now.

Well the SERVER replay actually doesn't show any contact - didn't say that H's car wasn't affected - Juha clearly got a bit close but it is a limitation of GPL that you don't actually have to touch a car to knock it off. It also does NOT mean that Juha is in the clear.

As has been pointed out, it was actually lap 2 so my error but as Colin has reported it it will get modded by Mike. As you have worked out Arf^3 the incident needs submitting again. Sorry if I confused you.

You know, I find it funny how a few of you just had to comment on an incident that doesn't involve you directly and then you come telling me how I should avoid raising up the point in the forum.  ::)

Let me assure you of something - once the report system works properly (and I hope it would, because I have a lot of things to report and send client replays of), there will be far worse things to moderate than what happened on lap 2 (YES TWO, NOT ONE, so forget about lap one moderation covering this).

As for the race itself and I'll try be as polite as possible (which will be difficult) it was an intense one, with lots of ups and downs, and despite winning it, the overall feeling was that of disappointment. The reason? Drivers who are supposed to be one of our top drivers were showing no respect or self-control whatsoever. The rest will go into the reports (but I DO want to submit client replays, so find a way to fix it please).

I had done no practice for this race, but having had a lot of races at Mexico and with a decent amount of experience with the Porsche now, it was mostly down to coming up with a setup solution. My Kyalami setup seemed to work fine and with a few gearing adjustments, it was good enough for putting me into top 3 on the grid. I think I was on a potential pole position lap right at the end, but caught up with Paul in the last corner and as much as I tried to go to the inside, it didn't work and we made contact.

The start was OK, but my longer 1st gear allowed Tristan to go up into 2nd and then we followed each other for 1 lap, in which I must say Tristan was driving like a madman and nearly lost it a couple of times as if it was the final lap of the race. I chose to settle behind and just wait for him to make a bigger mistake, because it would've been way risky to try and race him at that point.

We then reached the hairpin for the 2nd time, on lap 2. It was obvious, right from the start, that the pull you get from the slipstream is quite noticeable, so it was mandatory to ease off before the braking zones and brake slightly earlier, to avoid hitting the cars in front of you. Juha apparently did not acknowledge that and although I accept his apology, it doesn't change his responsibility for what happened next.

As I was spun around, I noticed the upcoming cars were still about 100 meters away, so I thought I had enough time to turn around and continue, but the car reacted slower than expected and JUST before I hit the apex, 2 cars approached at full speed and crashed into me. Now, I do take responsibility that perhaps I didn't judge the situation absolutely perfect, but I also blame the upcoming cars for the same thing, as they arrived full speed and very close to each other, as if there was nobody stationary at the hairpin and no yellow flags being waved. But anyway, moderation would shed more light on this, hopefully with taking client replays into consideration and not just server replay.

I continued, car damaged somewhat, with the rear end stepping out of line very easily, so it took a lap or two to adapt to that, and by that time Tristan and Sergio were just blobs of pixels in the distance, but there was enough time to try and catch up. It soon became clear that Tristan is slower than Sergio and was dropping behind him, and that allowed me to catch his slipstream within a couple of laps.

Catching is one thing, passing quite another, and Tristan still driving rather aggressively, but not really efficiently, I needed to make my overtaking maneuver as good as possible. The opportunity came when Tristan went wide at the hairpin and then had a bad exit off the next chicane, so I went for the inside of the following fast right. Tristan refused to give any room though and just turned full speed across in front, narrowly missing my car, but not missing the backmarker that was right in front of us. The speed difference was great and they made contact, with Tristan's car bouncing off the armco on the left and as much as I tried to slow down and go between the cars, there was some light contact as it was impossible to predict the trajectory of both vehicles.

All this gave Sergio a bit of an advantage and he was now about 3 seconds up in front, but I hadn't given up yet! Some fast driving for the next couple of laps and with some help from backmarkers slipstream, the gap started to shrink gradually, so once I had the benefit of using Sergio's slipstream, it was a matter of 2-3 laps before I was in a position to attack. Sergio's car was very fast on the straights though, as well as through the final corner, so despite him making mistakes in the corners, I couldn't really get close enough to try and pass him, so I just settled patiently and followed him around.

About 11 laps from the end we came up to a backmarker at T 1and it appeared as if Sergio didn't acknowledge his presence because he braked at his normal point and carried his normal speed through the corner. That meant he was suddenly forced to take evasive actions to avoid rearending the backmarker and as they both went wide, I sneaked through and into the lead. As I exited T2 I came up to Jason's extremely slow moving car and it was a bit of a close call going around him. A corner later I passed Jonny's very slow moving car as well, so I was wondering what the heck are they doing, cruising around like that, lol.

I had about a 2-3 seconds lead for quite a while after that, but with the very long slipstream that these cars provide and as I caught up backmarkers in corners while Sergio benefited from their slipstream on the straights, he finally managed to close up the gap and make an attack at T1 with 5 laps to go. He took the lead, but didn't get the best of lines through the next few turns, so with a better exit off the previous corner I had a run on him towards the hairpin.

I moved to the inside before the braking zone while Sergio kept going on the outside, but as we were braking he moved across to block me and contact was inevitable. We continued, with Sergio hitting the outside armco and thus straightening himself up, and we approached the next chicane side by side, but as soon as he entered it on the inside, he slowed down all of a sudden in the middle of the corner and I had to move to the side to avoid him. That sent me into the curb on the right and the collision with it spun me around...

I managed to continue but the gap was now about 2 seconds, with 4 laps to go. Not someone to give up though, I kept charging and using all the experience gained from the laps until this moment, I started to experiment with some lines through T1 which seemed to work and my lap times improved noticeably. That allowed me to close up on Sergio as the race was coming to an end and I did my fastest lap 2 laps from the end, despite going off out of the Esses, with the gap to the leader reduced to about 1 second.

Sergio lost the rear end for a moment on the exit of the corner before the hairpin, and so I slipped through in the lead, but as I turned into the corner, he just drove into me at much higher speed after totally missing his braking point. Arrogantly enough, he drove on as if nothing happened and I was back in 2nd, but the red mist kept me going and with some fast driving through the Esses, I made a move on the exit of the penultimate of the 2 left handers, tapping him slightly as he was going much slower but it was nothing major, just a taste of his own medicine and he continued without spinning.

I was fortunate enough to catch some slipstream from a backmarker on the last lap and thus compensate for giving Sergio the benefit of my own slipstream, and despite being very close at T1 he couldn't launch an attack. I kept the lead for the reminder of the lap and won one of my best races, overcoming all the dirty and disrespectful driving that I've witnessed and recovering from all the time lost.

Of course I'm sorry that my rejoin caused Raoni's retirement, but it wasn't as clear-cut as it he made it sound in chat, and it was done in good faith that the gap was enough and there was enough time and room, plus relying on the upcoming driver's judgement that it was a scene of an accident and that they should ease off a little. As for Tristan and Sergio, I'm very disappointed with the way they conducted their racing, so instead of it being a fun battle until the end, it was quite frustrating and unpleasant racing with them.

OK, so the report system accepts replay without problems now? May I also ask what's the deadline for sending reports and replays, and replying to report messages sent by other drivers?

Generally a week, so the submit link will disappear next friday.

This race was hard work...
Having a lumbago I had pain in my back while driving.
I managed to stay behind my teammate Ronnie for long time.
Luckily we saw the hairpin incident in lap 2 in time and we could pass the poor roof down Raoni and Arf unharmed.
Later David and Arf came from behind and gave me fire, they could finaly overtake me as I did some little mistakes.
The rest of the race I kept my position allways in sight of  them.
With Juha and Ronnie as teammates its a great pleasure to race  :thumbup2:

Greetings
:chef:

Hmm, seems that my race on server 2 was very tame by comparison to all the action on server 1!?? ::)

I have to admit that I was surprised that some of the true aliens were not present and I was more than surprised to improve my PB by about 2 secs to take pole. Goran was threatening to be very quick in 2nd place on the grid and I knew that T1, Lap 1 could well be critical.

Goran made a better start and drew alongside but I managed to hold the inside line around T1 and into the Esses, emerging with a few metres of lead. For the rest of Lap 1 I pushed as hard as I dared to build a protective gap against the slipstream when we reached the straight. I was fortunate to get just enough  of a lead to prevent Goran making an attack into T1 on Lap 2.

For the next 10 laps I kept up the pressure, slowly building my lead and watching the gap grow as I went around the hairpin, until I was unable to see the 2nd place car before going through the Esses. Then I knew that I had a safe lead as long as I made no mistakes.

The rest of the race was very lonely as I was able to gradually pull away from the cars behind, and with a small grid I did not catch any backmarkers until we were almost at the end of the race. I did make a small effort in the last few laps to break through the 1:50 barrier, but was slightly cautious as I did not wish to throw away the win when I had such a comfortable lead and just failed. Prib indicated that it was easily possible and with a little slipstream and some closer racing I think I would have made it....maybe next time.

Grats to those who finished the server 2 race and I hope the missing drivers turn up for the next round because bigger grids mean more fun in this series.

Yeh I was gutted I wasn't on server 2 - I could have finished 6th!  ;D

Quite a good race for me.  I only made 2 mistakes, the first one was when I was trying to stay ahead of JohnnyO.  I clipped a polo which caused me to spin and I rejoined behind JohnnyO and my team mate Martin (Maddog).  The second mistake was a spin on the next lap at T1.  By then I was a good 17 seconds behind Martin so I just settled down and tried to drive a consistent pace.  I watch prib and noticed Martin had got past JohnnyO to pick up more points for Pastit Porsche  :clap:

For the next 20 or so laps the gap to JohnnyO was pretty constant.  I past a couple of back markers and I got lapped by Sergio and Hristo (incredible pace from those 2) so it looked like the result was decided.  But then I passed Martin with a smoking engine :( and then with just 2 laps to go prib showed JohnnyO was loosing ground.  So I pushed hard and managed to pass JohnnyO in the run down to T1 on the last lap.  I had Juha on my tail trying to lap me but I didn't want to pull over in case I lost the place to JohnnyO.  I don't think I held Juha back much and it wouldn't of affected the outcome, he was circulating on his own by then.

Always the same problem.The side view.I have given to much space on the right to my opponent in the last curve, when i close the curve he was on my flank and .....crash.The car went over the gard rail and ,when the car was back on the track the disaster begins.

Someone could explain me why i'm not able to see the server of the Porsche cup on Igor?
Always i must use the IP to join the race.

If you can see all the Servers, or no Servers, I understand this.  If you cannot see only the Porsche Server, this is strange! ???

The problem with the GT cars, is the sound.  Other cars make little noise, because we have a roof - we race inside the car, and this is realistic.  I use the mirror, and the glance left, and right buttons.  Driving by braille will sometimes impale! :-[

As Martin says can you see any races on igor?

Is your igor.ini set to this?

It was a busy race at the end of my car lost power and could not get to 5th gear, but the main one is always good and always jockeying for position with full respect for the rules of conduct, it is a pleasure to share the track well.

Server 2

1e lap was a madhouse .....................lost so many places  ;D

Fun to fight my way back in rank order.

Happy with 3e place.
Congratulations Evil and Göran....well done!!

Looking foreward to France,
Greetings Pedro.

About Hristo I only can say that it is strange that Hristo blames other pilots for a behaviour he has been the first to have on the other pilots. He gave a little tap on the back of Tristan and Tristan was out of race. He exactly used a little tap on my right side at the hairpin exactly like I made (after him anyway) letting me know he is not only a good race car pilot but also a good bumper car pilot as well. Anyway I suddenly adapted my behaviour to his and...I was blamed by him!!! This is noticeably!!! And like it was not enough, another time he gave  me LITTLE tap during last 2 laps and the result has been that he passed me just before to start the last lap. I have also another thing to say about lapped pilots, for me they have to stay far away from the groove when lapping pilots are closing faster, this is the reason my race has been almost ruined because during the last 3 or 4 laps I've found a lapped car at T1 just in trajectory like the pilot didn't know to be lapped. The result has been that I've tried to overtake that car externally and when I've been beside him, whitout any reason, he moved to the external blocking me absolutely and so letting Hristo the chance to overtake me just toward the end of the race!!! I think the most of us just have the right experience to judge if we can cause an incident but it is a thing we all have to figured out early the incident can occur otherwise the experience is meaningless!
I will send my LITTLE reports about Hristo and ...it is not the first time he creates his rooms in the crowd with a little tap behind or aside!
After these claims I only can say it was the most fun race I've ever made!
If we race with race cars it's ok but if we race with bumper cars then tell me and...I'll surrond my car with a truck tire  ;)

YahoooOOoOoo....

No comment on the race issues as I was not there but, as regards lapping, this is the advice in our etiquette (https://www.ukgpl.com/index.php/rules/etiquette) section;

So the suggestion is, in general, the lapped car stays on the line and lifts slightly when the lapping car moves out to pass unless they have had time to move across safely. Obviously they shouldn't then move off the line as you are making the pass. I know from experience it can be quite tricky to avoid any confusion when being lapped...

You must be kidding, right? He cut in front of me almost hitting my frontend, he lost control of the car, hit the armco, hit the backmarker and simply almost stopped in front of me, so I couldn't avoid the contact. It's not like I was making an attack or anything! It was totally his own doing and if I had been spun around or retired in that contact, it would've still been his fault, not mine.


Again, more jokes! You kept the outside line before the braking zone, I went for the inside, and you turned into the corner some 5-10 meters earlier than normal, just to block my line! What do you expect me to do, disappear? You got some nerve to blame me for that one...


How you compare that blatant rearending of yours with what happened previously is unbelievable! You were what, 10-20 meters back during the braking zone and you simply entered the corner sideways at much higher speed, using my car as a brake! Have you even watched the replay before you talk nonsense like this?  ::)


TBH, you totally deserve that tap after all the bad moves you did early on and I was not going to let you drive so dirty and see myself always come out as the victim. Besides, it was not intentional, unlike your moves. I was opting to go for the outside and you simply had much slower exit speed than all previous laps. Not to mention the tap was so innocent that you only lost a bit of speed and was instantly back on the attack behind me. Seriously, before you make such ridiculous claims, watch the replay and think about what you did and why you did it, if you want to be honest with yourself of course...


I'll tell you what your problem is (and Tristan's too), you're so impatient and so aggressive, that you go beyond your own limits every time when someone attacks you or every time you have to pass a backmarker. This leads to a lot of risky situations and to unnecessary accidents. The situation you explain that a backmarker blocked you is ridiculous to say the least, because I witnessed it first hand while running with you. You carried your normal speed through the corner, if not even higher than normal, and you expect a backmarker, who is obviously slower, to suddenly pick up speed or to give you room as soon as you appear in their mirrors inside a corner? Jeez, step off your high cloud (pun intended), you're expecting miracles to happen and that they're always in your favour.

In addition, you try to block and drive defensively in the last moment, without taking into account whether the driver behind has already committed to a line and can't simply disappear anymore, so you basically give them two chances - throw themselves off or hit you. Take a guess which one is more likely to happen...

We'll see how the moderators treat those incidents and I'm almost certain you'll be penalized, so don't be surprised when that happens. And if it's not enough to open your eyes, then nothing will be...

What is ridicolous is...that you were faster than me and you adopted erratic behaviours during your attacs, so the result has been deprecable. Watch out for the replay you at first. Usually in GPFun championship we use Fairplay when a pilot involves another unintentionally in an accident giving back the position arbitrarily subtracted. I didn't see any behavior like that in your moves Hristo and I'm disappointed for this. You only stopped me at the hairpin and you've escaped more fastly possible like nothing happened. And when you say not intentional tap...I could also believe it but it doesn't mean it happened with no effects on me...infact you've overtaken me during this action and definately it was the move that made you win the race or it is not so !?!?!?
You've much more experience than me in GPL racing (at high level I should add) so your behavior for me has been not one of the best I've seen till now.
The 3rd chance is...to brake in time, and I don't know why you've not considered it like the 1st option (also talking about lapping) !!!!
If you see the replay well, I've not used your car to brake at the hairpin, I've been just perfectly controlling my car and anyway the situation is exactly the same as your 1st impact on me.
Mind your own business and let our problems to us so if you've time to loose, think at Solitude, you've almost ruined the race to me and Tom at the same time involving a lot of pilots in your move!
It will be nice to see what will be the mod report for this race. Looking forward to Rouen!

Erratic behaviour?  ??? Where, what? Are you crazy? There was nobody more erratic in that race than yourself and Tristan, changing lines all the time and driving unpredictably whenever you come close to another car or another car closes up on you. I'm curious how you even speak of fairplay and how you get away with such kind of "fairplay" in GPFun. You speak of giving a position back yet you never did that on any of the occasions you caused an accident, so should I laugh that you even suggest that to me or what? Keep crying about the tap, but compared to your intentional bad driving it was nothing at all. As for comparing the 2 hairpin contacts again, I'll tell you once more - you were at fault for both and they were totally different to each other.

And how dare you blame me for what happened at Solitude when it was YOU who lost the line and hit me from the side despite the fact that I provided you with enough room for 2 cars!  You ruined your own races there! At the time I thought it was just an unfortunate situation that won't be happening again, but now I know there's more to it.  ::)

As for minding my own business, you should follow your own advice and mind yours, because all I did here was present my own race report without pointing out the finger personally. I'm entitled to an opinion you know and race reports are exactly that - personal opinions. Whether you like it or not is your problem. You, instead of doing that, had to address your post towards me personally instead, and try to come out as a victim when you were far from that. Have some dignity please and take responsibility for all the bad you did, because if you actually read my post, I never ran away from the responsibility I carried for some of the on-track situations. Instead of that, you just keep making excuses for all accidents you were to blame for, or worse - you don't even comment on them (it's more convenient that way, right?), but then you emphasize on minor contacts or pure racing incidents, and use those to make yourself seen as the innocent victim. You were anything but that.

Hey Hristo I've been hit from you 4 times...I say it again, 4 times. Is it enough for you ?
For me also 2 is enough, once I can concede you but 2 are already to much, then...you've hit me 4, 1...2...3...4 and the last one obviously has been the better just at 1 lap to go and taking the 1st position untill the finish line.
I think you don't remember well also Solitude, I was in 3rd place when you hit the hay bales during the 1st or 2nd lap and you were in 2nd place,...I fortunately escaped the heap you made at the end of the straight, what are you remembering I don't know, maybe another movie I think !  :P ;D

Obviously I can't point my finger to anyone excepting you because you've hit me and not everybody else.  ::) :)

OK, I don't think the two of you are going to agree about this so can we please refrain from a public slanging match on the forums as it helps nobody and only damages UKGPL.

Let's see what the moderation brings and see if we can move on to some more exciting racing.

Thanks.

Hi guys. Do you have any reference time for Rouen GT or better Porsche ?

Thanks.

I see Tristan is already running round here at sub 2.02, so I expect one of you speed demons to be cracking the 2min barrier in qualifying at least!! Good luck.

If you can do 2:02 in a Porsche you are quick. 2:03 will be competitive in the race. I am aiming for 2:10s  :notworthy:

I think also the poleman will be under 2 mins I don't know how many seconds but surely under 2 mins.

[EDIT]
After a little practice it seems it is quite difficult to stay below 2:02 consistently. It could mean the poleman should be around 2:01.50 or 2:01.00. Below 2:01 it should be a fantastic laptime (at least for me).

LOL, 4 times?! Your lies never end, do they! Prove that it was 4 times, go on and report them, provide replays, show the world how it was my fault for all 4 and how you were a good innocent driver throughout the race.  :D I'm very interested to see that, otherwise I'm calling you nothing but a liar.  :) BTW, next time you report an incident, don't just write "several" in the time field, but point out the exact moment of the incident, so people involved would know what to reply in their defense. Anyway though, I've reported all incidents and almost-incidents that involve you, so feel entitled to try and turn reality around to prove your innocence.  ;)

As for Solitude, fine then, whether it was you or Tristan on the inside of the corner in the lead of the race is irrelevant, the point is - he lost control, I was well clear on the outside and provided more than enough room, so he simply slid wide into me and spun me into the haybales. From there on it was out of control for anyone, unless you believe people should chose to hit Esc and retire instead of waiting to get a chance to continue. So again, before you spread more lies and try to twist the truth around to suit your pathetic case, post evidence and report the incidents if you so strongly believe it was someone else's fault. Otherwise you just piss me off with your ridiculous claims.

Hristo, Sergio, just drop it please.. This kind of public arguement does nothing for our image and ability to attract new racers into our friendly relaxed group.....

I'm not going to drop my defense against such public claims that tarnish on my integrity as a racing driver and which more importantly have no basis whatsoever, but are totally made up and delusional. It was him who started it and until he chooses to either apologize and or prove his case with hard evidence, then I'll keep disproving his claims in any way I can. I'm amazed of the nerve he has coming here and throwing all those lies when he knows very well in his heart that nothing of that is true and that he's guilty of causing multiple incidents himself.

"The start was OK, but my longer 1st gear allowed Tristan to go up into 2nd and then we followed each other for 1 lap, in which I must say Tristan was driving like a madman and nearly lost it a couple of times as if it was the final lap of the race. I chose to settle behind and just wait for him to make a bigger mistake, because it would've been way risky to try and race him at that point."

...........thanks a lot Hristo ........you start very well to criticize  my driving style in the 2 fisrt laps with cold tyres and 27 laps fuell .....and also with a very agressive driver in my back  !....( but for me it's normal to have agressivness when you racing ) .....so I don't know why you said that  ....or maybe you was enervous to lost one place at the start !?..... ;D
....from my reaplay , at the hairpin of the lap 2 , Idon't see any contact betwin H. and J......that is what the screen show me......I can see also something incrédible !!. :eek:....H. after his 360°  retake the road juste like very nervous and don't care about the poor Arfx3who cannot do anything against the very hasardous therefore dangerous manoeuvre of H.   :rockon:........when I see this , I'm realy dead LOL that you said I'have a madman driving ......  imagine if it was  the réality  .......I think the race is finish for you and Arfx3.........
.........also about my end of race .... at the hairpin you hurt the rail....and after the chicane you attack me at one place where it's impossible to overpass .....( you are also in a dead angle and I can't see you ) ........         me  ,I just keep my line ( the line )....unfortunately Whitefield don't keep his line , and cross mine....... so I try to pass outside but I touch him and I finish in the rail .....( sorry Whitefield , I do my best , but was impossible  ! )........then H. bumped me out of his way  :rockon:....
so you are good to juge the others , and you seem to be never wrong ...........you are so shure of you that you don't care about the others.............it's a chance that is only simracing .....;)

.......sorry Hristo , but in Solitude I was not racing with you ...... ;D        ....so give the right name please !

.....and in Mexico I was not in loose at all !!  ....... it's not the case of everybody !!     the only cause of my DNF is a mobil chicane !

LOL!  :P ;D

Uhm....lemme think about a valid name....maybe Albert Einstein ! ROFL !

Guys, the forum is for reasoned debate and not to start a flame war. The rights and wrongs can be sorted out in the moderation process. It would be helpful if everyone could moderate their language when making points and refrain from being offensive.

Please think twice before posting something.

To answer the specific point I followed the line that I always follow at that point so I believe I did keep my line. I find that particular corner difficult and it is almost certainly not your line. There will be a reason why you can go round the track over ten seconds faster than me! You also didn't actually touch me until you bounced off the armco.

I am not entirely certain what line you expected me to follow but you needed to pass me on my left as the line is tight on the right. I believe you tried the right first and switched a bit too fast to the left which ended in the armco. I apologise if I ruined your race but I am unsure where else I could have gone. Backmarkers are advised to keep to their own line and let the faster drivers go off line. I could have stayed out and followed the armco but what if you had gone to pass me off line and I drove there?

I see you two are willing to go even lower and start throwing random personal attacks which you believe would bother me or anyone would actually believe what you claim, lol. Let me see though, I'll try to cover all that shit you just wrote.

I'm intitled to write anything in my race report from own point if view, so if you don't like it that's your problem. I never made personal attacks unlike you and Sergio.

I was neither envious, nor nervious at the start. I was not aggressive either, unlike yourself. The replay shows that clearly, you keep losing the car in almost each corner and I'm forced to ease off frequently to give you some space to recover. If I was aggressive, I would've taken advantage of your mistakes and made a move to pass you. You're obviously totally clueless about that.

As for what happened at the hairpin, my replay shows clearly how Juha hits me, you can see the contact, you can hear it, and it's what spins my car around. I challenge anyone to spin like that without being hit, lmao. Secondly, that accident doesn't involve you AT ALL, so you're just being an asshole to bring it up as a personal attack against me, instead of speaking about your own incidents you caused. Thirdly, if you actually watch the replay, Raoni hits Arf BEFORE Arf hits me, so that accident was going to happen regardless of whether I rejoined the track or not. Not to mention that had I executed the maneuver better, I would've go through before they reached me, with Raoni still hitting Arf. But again it doesn't concern you and you're in no position to talk, considering how much worse you drove yourself.

As for my attack on you, who are you to say it's impossible to pass? Or is it that you simply decide to turn into the corner, without giving a damn whether there's another car inside or that it was obvious a backmarker was running slower up in front. Who's the madman, huh? You and Sergio don't seem to account for possible warp contact at all and you simply leave no room for anyone, then you come in here crying like babies.

And to say that I bumped you out of the way, OMFG - you hit the armco, hit the backmarker, literally lost half or more of your speed in a matter of 1 second, and you expect me to somehow slow at the same rate and avoid hitting your car? Clueless, totally clueless... you should join some novices divisions until you learn about the basics of racing physics, along with your teammate.

@Sergio - lame avatar, but whatever - keep hating like a little punk.

You two immature disrespectful wannabe simracers are going to get your eyes opened once the moderation is complete and I would be very surprised if you get away with any of your bad moves. It would be quite funny if you keep on insisting afterwards that what you did was right and that it was everyone else's fault for what happened around you on the track, heh.

....ho ! don't worry Badblood , it's my  mistake .... 100% .....anyway , it's ALLWAYS the fault of the chase man who have to keep the control of is car  ...... it's " THE " rule !!! .........  I know ,it's not easy to be lapped some time and spécialy in this sector of the track ..... so , one again , my apologies ......         ...... usualy , I'm very carefull if I arrives on the late drivers , but here I was first a little surprise to find the late drivers so early in the race , and I was fighting with H. and he went just to touch the rail at the hairpin and very close to me and I see very well that he will try to profite of thoses lapped guys ..... in fact he come nearly on my side just before turning in the curve ... I think it was only intimidation but I'm not shure at all .......anyway , it was not the good moment and the good place to do it ..... just because we arrive on late drivers in a tricky zone ......and 20 laps to go !.......

I've a bad experience to be lapped remaining on the racing line. The racing line (groove briefly) is the line where fast car are passing, obviously also slow car passes from there but faster car have not many chanses to avoid obstacles on the groove expecially during corners without end their run badly or braking early giving advantage to the chaser. What I've learned is that pilots lapping me are figuring out I stay far from the groove, no matter if I have tro cross it as quickly as I can to keep me far from it. The 2 or 3 times I've remained on the race line being lapped I was perfectly centered by the lapping pilot ruining his race at all or giving unespected advantage to his chaser.

Hi guys,
At the sake of appearing crass and in the knowledge we are all grown ups here I think it is all getting a little too heated. Strangely enough the incident reporting system partly exists to avoid drivers slugging it out in the forums but that doesn't always work.
I don't believe in locking topics, it's a bit like trying to plug up a boiling kettle, but there comes a time when it is worth taking a breather.
I'm sending out a few PM's and would appreciate, in the meantime, if there are no more personal posts here. Not good for UKGPL and probably not good for everyones blood pressure.

..... :angel-wings:....once again Sim Racing GOD HAVE speak !!  ..... and I see well , it's never your fault ! .... LOL.....LOL....and LOL ! ....
    .....and you  ? , who are you for telling that my drive is a mad drive  ???......  look at you man !.....asholl yourself , you must learn the respect .........
 ......so you see me loosing the car in nearly itch corner ! ;D ....... lol , maybe drink or drive , you have to choise !.....

     personaly ,I come from the real racing ( motobike and kart ) , and I can tel you , if somebody has your kind of behaviours on track if he have the chance to finish the race alive , this risk to finish in boxing match in the padock......
 ....so now  , I drop it cause no possible to speak anymore to u..........and please don't answer me , I don't care about .....

   .....( I was stupidly thinking that all the top drivers was  ' gentleman driver ' ........ :(

Sometimes it happens that theory is way different from the practical (talking about Tristan's text in parenthesis). After all, we are men not machines (Chuck Yeager).  ;)

Sorry for the delay(I was in the St Moritz region Martin!with my motorcycle :))  I see all race in Igor (or i hope).With the novice race i have no problem to see the server.
Only with the Porsche cup i have this problem.I don't know the IP=gplrank.info what mean.Is only for the Porsche cup?
If yes ,this can explain the problem otherwise there is a mistery.

St Moritz on a Motorcycle? OK now I'm really jealous!!! What machine do you ride?

Is an old Yamaha Virago 550cc.To go to St Moritz is not a long trip(130km from Como).Is long in time because the road of the lake of Como is the worst possible. The trip was:Como ,Maloja pass,St Moritz ,Bernina Pass(very beautiful),Livigno,Swiss national park and return to home.

Hi guys,
as usual and waiting for the official UKGPL server to show up, I'll host some PSC Rouen sessions during the week.
Sometimes some of you have had some problems to join my PSC Practice Server but I knew nothing, so if you have any problem to join my server, try to contact  me immediately letting me the opportunity to fix the problem (I hope to be able to do it) or leave a message here on the board hoping this will not cause any problem to moderators about permission and granting rules. In any case let me know.

Thank you in advance for participation,
Sergio.

Thanks Clouds. As always, UKGPL3 will be running Porsches from Wednesday.

Hi all,

I'm not at home since two weeks, so i was not able to race at Mexico.
I didn't know i'll be there for the next race........let's see


see you :)

ToM

Race Mod published.

I see the replays I sent were COMPLETELY ignored, otherwise you would have penalized Raoni for rearending Arf on lap 2 at the hairpin which would've also lessened my 3 places penalty (When was it you've given that penalty any recently? You don't even give it to much worse examples of bad driving which we witness all the time).

Also, if my replays were not ignored, you would have not penalized me for the incident with Sergio at the hairpin. An incident which is an EXACT repeat of what happened between myself and Natan in the Pro race at Salzburgring and where Tim logically blamed the driver in front for turning earlier than normal after seeing the driver behind already committing for a pass. You're telling me he took the same line in previous laps, but what has that to do with anything? It has compeltely no relevance when you fight with another car and have to account for its position, not just take the lines you took whatever laps earlier. Am I supposed to predict such a thing and never make a move? What if he took the middle line 3 laps earlier, would he be entitled to do it from then on regardless of who is nearby?  ???

Ridiculous, I'm definitely going to appeal to this... I'm getting very disappointed with recent moderation that seems to follow no common sense whatsoever OR it doesn't take all reports and replays into account, or is simply biased. First the Spec race Mexico incident, which was a joke to be penalized for, and now this. Are you trying to tell me something?  ::)

Hahahah never I've seen a report much longer than this and effectively there was much to investigate for, anyway also if my race has been one of the best I've ever made, I think your mod is correct at most so for me the facts involved are closed!
Thanks for your patience hoping you will have not to work so much YahoooOOooooo!!!  ;) ;D ::)

P.S.: next time, maybe it could be better if I send you my private replay instead to use the official server replay, does it ?

BB

Keep laughing, Sergio, but you know very well the truth is not what was being presented in that moderation and I'm on a mission to prove it because I'm tired of seeing this either frivolous, biased or inconsistent incident ruling. For that reason, I made a video that observes and compares incidents from this race, as follows:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djY67DeGVTQ

What to look for in the video

Although explained in the video, I want to add some more information that was impossible to put in the video. Starting first with the Arf-Raoni incident, which was not even moderated (but something silly about an imaginary fly was?? great):

1) One could say that Arf actually changed his line under braking and that would be considered blocking, as Raoni has already taken the middle line in the braking zone.

2) Raoni was even further backwards compared to the incident with Sergio for which I was penalized, therefore there was no overlap at all, nor Arf changed his line just before the corner. In addition, as is visible from the replay, Raoni is carrying much more speed prior to the impact than anyone in front of him, including the race leader at the time.

3) Compared to my incident with Sergio, in which he was only sent wide and actually took back his position as soon as the next corner, the impact between Raoni and Arf was much harder and would have very likely retired them even if I wasn't doing my turn around maneuver.

4) Had Arf taken a normal line and not turned into the corner so early, he would've only been hit by Raoni and would have not hit my car at all.

5) To call this an appallingly bad rejoin and rob me of 3 places is obviously judging it not from my own abilities and judgement, but someone else's, and is not objective at all. Had I brought up just a bit more revs and produced a wheel spin, I would've rejoined well on time. That I consider to be my only true fault in all this and the rest is more down to bad circumstances, not the least helped by Raoni and Arf making contact with each other.

Now, onto the 4 in 1 view comparison shot (which I advise you to watch with the Youtube video slider a couple of times so you can observe all details):

1) Top-left view:  I make my intentions very clear and am already close to or into Sergio's blind spot under braking, but he turns noticeably earlier into the corner. Had my car not been there, he would've hit the tire on the inside... For this I get a Blatant Rear End Shunt — 2 places lost penalty.

2) Top-right view: Juha realizes he's braking too late as soon as he begins to brake, and tries his best to avoid hitting me by swerving to the outside of the corner. His good intent is obvious by his momentarily locked tire. Although responsible, he only puts me into a mild spin, and despite it being a totally different situation to the above, he also gets a Blatant Rear End Shunt — 2 places lost penalty.

3) Bottom-left view: Sergio is recovering from a half-spin on the exit of the previous corner and drops quite far behind before the hairpin. Amazingly he tries to brake some 50 meters later than normal, carries much more speed into the corner and does not even attempt to avoid hitting me - he uses my car as a mean to slow down his own. He as well gets a Blatant Rear End Shunt — 2 places lost penalty, except in this case he totally deserves it and this incident is completely different to either of the previous 2, not the least because of Sergio not doing anything to try and avoid an incident. This is what I call ill-intended driving and it should be a factor when handing out penalties.

4) Bottom-right view: As mentioned earlier, Raoni starts his braking quite late (and that from a keyboard driver who can't lock his wheels even if he wanted to), stays in the middle of the road, Arf moves over (and I'm more inclined to think he's entitled to do that as he's a car length in front), and Raoni goes straight into his back. Despite reporting that, despite providing replays, despite instructing moderators to study the situation carefully, this remains completely ignored and is not even moderated, let alone any penalties given to either Arf or Raoni. In a situation which is much more controversial than the one I was given a blatant rearend shunt penalty for, nobody is even considered responsible.

And then we come to the comparison of my incident with Natan at Salzburgring vs. the one with Sergio here. Same conditions, same situations, but completely opposite rulings. The video shows it all really, so see for yourself, then think how honest you actually are when you hand out such harsh penalties just like this, and especially when you give the same type of penalty for 3 so different incidents, where responsibility and intentions of both drivers are much different to each other.

Considering I had no record of bad moves and penalties, you sure used me well as a scapegoat to, I don't know, send some vague and subjective message to everyone else, and just promote more of this inconsistent way to deal with incidents, as well as motivate drivers to keep causing them. You are also unable to differentiate between obvious pattern of ill-intended and disrespectful driving vs. simple loss of control, imperfect judgement or in other words - actions that lead to racing incidents where the responsibility is shared (and which do and will happen almost every race).

I'm looking forward to the next PM that tells me to shut up so I can ignore it this time (and no basis for it really, because there's no profanity in my post). And I will also not believe anymore the promises of objective moderation that takes all evidence and points of view into account, because I spent 2 hours writing all my reports (without which you wouldn't have even moderated half of those situations), cutting replays, watching from different angles and using common sense to describe you how the situations unfolded. What do I get in return? Some lame joke about a fly, a completely ignored rearend shunt moderation, a severe penalty without prior infringement which no driver was given any recently despite absolutely appalling driving by some people (particularly in lower divisions), a penalty for incident that is not even caused by me and at best should be ruled out as a racing incident, and lastly, no penalty or warning for my little tap to Sergio's back near the end of the race which was much more of a rearend shunt than anything before that...

To me (and some others who I won't name) it seems this moderation, which should've taken MUCH more time than usual because of the numerous complex situations, was actually rushed and done with, before even moderation for other races that happened prior to this one was complete. Are you expecting me to believe that you really got all moderators involved in these cases as was promised before-hand, and that they would rather moderate this than do their own division moderation first. Hardly believable and the quality of moderation here is a proof of that.

Have a nice day,

-=Hristo=-

P.S. I fully expect the people who don't take racing in here seriously to make silly jokes with it, disrespecting those who do take it seriously, but it would be good if we can actually have some discussion that goes beyond that.  ::)

Sorry H isn't this a little bit nutty? Sergio bit his punishment and you Appealed. So what is all this rubbish about??? TBH honest mate you are now making yourself look like a joke

Yes, that would be nice, LOL.


For most things it doesn't matter but if warp is involved then it is very important to send your own replay clip as it will almost certainly be different from the server replay.

That shows that very early in the race you were getting annoyed, so your actions during the race have to be taken in context if any were done in anger, not that I think any were, but it is worth noting, so I noted it.

I don't want to comment on the individual incidents at this stage as they will be the subject of an appeal and we will clearly not agree, so we don't want another forum row dragging on. I will leave the appeal process to run its course.


Outside of lap 1, no, we wouldn't because this division is reported incidents only so your time did not go to waste.


It has taken almost 2 weeks which is longer than any other mod this season in a division run by me apart from those when I was on holiday or busy at work.


No.

It is the truth but whether or not you believe it is up to you.

I remember a certain Vosblod agreeing with me in chat about how people have different views on racing and how there should be mutual respect in regards to that, which is clearly not the case on this forum on a number of occasions, but now you're telling me I'm looking like a joke for speaking the very same truth?

I also see you picked up the least important sentence in my otherwise extensive post and ignored everything else. Don't you have anything else to say on the matter? Are you trying to shift the focus into something irrelevant to the points I'm trying to bring up here? Or maybe being silent on the matter means you agree with what I said, lol. Which is it?

@Mike - you don't ever want to admit in public if you made a mistake with moderation, nor discuss the actual incidents to make it clear for everyone else what your views on racing are, and what logic exactly you followed when coming up with these decisions, because to me they're highly illogical and inconsistent. If you can't see that on the video, then there's no way to convince you otherwise.

As for me being angry and how that affected my race, you seem very confident of knowing what goes in my mind while racing, I congratulate you on having the confidence to assume such a thing, but what it only goes to show is how ignorant you are about my approach to and throughout races, probably judging it on your own views, senses, abilities and way of thinking. I challenge you to show me anyone in this league that is more in control of their car and car positioning in this league than me, who knows where their own limit is as good as I do and who steps over that limit as infrequently as me. To penalize me with 5 places lost overall, for a maneuver that was not done in a blind decision but by taking all factors into account (as written in my report) and for an incident that I never caused myself, and considering my record of clean racing, that looks like nothing else but purposeful scapegoat making with no real basis whatsoever. At the same time people who repeatedly cause incident by noticeable disrespectful on-track behaviour are given the same minimum penalties over and over again, just so they can do the same thing again next race, without learning anything from the previous (and why should they). In fact very often they're not even being moderated and penalized.

Ah, and something I forgot to comment on and that seems to be giving away your biased thinking in regards to myself:

"Sergio retakes the lead at the next chicane and Hristo touches the back of him as his exit speed is higher than Sergio's.
As only Hristo is affected. - Racing incident"

First of all, I never touched his back, I avoided his back by turning right into the curb, as he literally lifted up/braked in the middle of the corner where you normally accelerate. How could I have higher exit speed when I'm the one being passed? He obviously had higher speed, but suddenly lost all that speed in the middle of the corner... And also, with the way you worded this, are you suggesting that if there was contact and Sergio's car was affected, it would not have been a racing incident, but my fault? And that since it was just me who was affected, it's OK to say that Sergio shared no responsibility at all? If that's not bias or imaginary thinking then I don't know what it is.  ::) Perhaps it simply proves you're not capable of reading replays and understanding racing situations, even when you're being helped by those involved with information and client replays.

I'm getting tired of how topics that are apparently uncomfortable to certain individuals in this league are next to being forbidden for discussion on the forum, something which would otherwise shed a lot of light on what people see and think, and would help every driver learn something, especially our Novices and Privateers who are still in the dark on what's accepted as allowed actions on the track. It's OK to say the reason is profanity, but when that's lacking, the excuses become sort of ridiculous and childish, and the focus turns to petty personal attacks instead of the discussed topic.

Based on what?

Clearly the appeal process is there to help drivers if I (or any other mod) make a mistake during a moderation, and some of my decisions have been changed, reversed or found to be too lenient this season. That shows I was wrong or my opinion was not that of the majority or the Chief Moderator. I have no issue with that at all and if anybody wants to discuss how I saw an incident and arrived at my decision I will do it, but nobody ever has in public. I have discussed incidents in private when I have received PMs from drivers, and if anybody has any doubts about my ability to judge incidents they have the season reviews or of course the forums and PMs to make their thoughts known.

If you want my opinion on these particular incidents I will discuss them after your appeal(s), otherwise the appeal process itself could be deemed to be unfair.

As for my "biased thinking in regards to" yourself how many races of yours have I moderated compared to the number of penalites I have given you?

I am not calling into question your car control, car positioning or mindset during racing, I am merely of the opinion that in this race you made some mistakes that could and should have been avoided and I awarded penalties based on that, and that alone.

You mention this incident with Sergio, and as it only has a Racing Incident against it, I assume you will not appeal it so I will discuss it, but you have answerred your own question:

because


as you were doing, so your speed was higher. Sergio entered more quickly which is how he made the pass so he would exit more slowly, while you entered more slowly than him and would be quicker out.


Perhaps, yes, but I did not say what decision I would have arrived at, you have done that for yourself.


I answered this earlier. Once the appeal process is finished with I will discuss how I arrived at my decisions, yet in the meantime you are confident in singling me out while all the moderators who looked at the replays are of the same opinion.

Well, how am I supposed to be aware of that? There's never a mention of appeal process going on, nor the public is made aware when the appeal process is over and an incident ruling changed. At least I have not witnessed it at all during all my seasons in UKGPL. I have not seen this happen at all. Therefore the public face of moderation is that moderators never admit their mistakes and that's where I was coming from.


Yes, I do prefer a normal discussion because you and the other moderators are also racing drivers, and while you moderate today, you will be driving against me tomorrow, so if we're not on the same page, how can we race normally? As for your question, it just proves I was not involved in any accidents prior to this, yet I received what is probably the highest number of places lost by a driver in a single race, in 2 incidents, based on no prior rule infringements. That's why it seems biased or frivolous, especially if you compare my situations to other definitely worse situations where either the same penalty was given or a lesser penalty was given. I very often have the feeling that some people in UKGPL, based on my statistics, expect me to perform miracles in situations where they themselves would not be able to avoid contact, and that if I don't do that my responsibility is higher than it really is.


Yes, but you spoke of anger which goes straight to mindset. FYI anger can be used very well if it's controlled, to give you more pace and that's exactly what happened. It did not lead to doing disrespectful moves or bad decisions for almost the whole duration of the race (and I do include lap 2 hairpin), with the exception of the little tap near the end which would have probably been avoided had not all the negative situations occurred earlier during the whole race. In other words, it was only by the end of the race that I got really frustrated and angry, and allowed my driving to be affected by that in a negative way. In comparison, some other drivers drove like that right from lap 1 and that does not seem to be taken into consideration at all, which I guess means it was not even looked upon despite my instructions and advice to observe the patterns before looking into each situation, because patterns should have much weight into how you judge someone's behaviour.

The fact that some drivers did not receive even a warning for situations that were deemed as "racing incidents" or that they didn't get any tips on how to tackle such situations in the future, to me it shows that each situation was looked upon in isolation, yet when the focus turned to my driving, you spoke of anger affecting my race. How am I to believe that such thoughts had no affection on your moderation of the situations I was involved in? Normally what we witness in race moderation are gradual steps of tips, warning, yellow cars, light penalties and more severe penalties, but in this case it was either the worse or nothing. That is what also makes it appear as if the moderation was done in a rush.


Except he was in the middle of the track and had all the road to the right (and ahead) of himself, which could have been used to continue with normal acceleration. It's simply common sense and when you race someone of that caliber, you rely on common sense that they won't brake/lift up in the middle of the corner, otherwise it would be impossible to race anyone. It goes to predictability.



I single you out based on what I see in here, nothing more. I can't quite believe in all moderators having the same opinion, considering some of those moderators would treat a similar situation in the opposite manner in regards to handing out penalties. Even if what you say is really the case, then we get to my other point which is inconsistency of applying the rules and which leads to rather random and unpredictable outcome during moderation. It kills all motivation to continue reporting incidents at all.

Anyway, I really would like a discussion, whether in private or in chat, if it's such a problem for you to have it here in public, so I hope we do that after the appeal process is over.

Very norty of Mike to hand out a penalty! We all know that Hristo is practically perfect in every way!

Well any driver affected will know as their race position and points will change if the original moderation is changed.

I'm not sure how interested anyone not affected by it is, unless they reviewed the race and the moderation beforehand. Otherwise how will they know if either the moderation or the appeal are correct?


Each incident is judged on its own merits. If a driver does something that under our rules attracts a 3 place penalty they will receive a 3 place penalty. Whether it is their 1st, 3rd or 21st penalty, under the rules they will get a 3 place penalty.

The totting up system we have around red and yellow cards is used to show repeat offenders that they need to do something differently.


Which is why I said earlier that I did not think it affected any of your incidents.


I think you need to give the moderators a little more credit. If you ask us to look at something then I can assure you that we do.

Just because we didn't agree with you and punish the people you wanted us to punish, or not punish you at all, doesn't mean we didn't look.


You need to read what I wrote, not what you think I wrote, I said I didn't think it affected your incidents and none of the moderated incidents mention your anger.


If an incident is covered under the rules and has a 3 place penalty, then a 3 place penalty will be applied.


I have already said that I will do it in the forums after the appeal is finished. I don't think we should do it before that so that the appeal process is seen to be fair and unaffected by anything you or I should post.

Just about that, you have given your side of the incidents in your reports, I have given my side of the incidents in the moderation and you have countered them in your appeal. I am not a part of the appeal process, that is done by the Chief Moderator and the Senior Consultant, so I should not interfere with that process which is normal for any kind of appeal.

from what i see of the report it's not one maneuver , thou you say overall . it does disingenuously make it sound like those five places "lost" are from just the one but the report says two different mistakes cost you those places .

i do have sympathy that it was your lack of skill or rather proper car control (you did say that you lost the revs so couldn't do a proper spin recovery) ,  however that should in no way forgive for your actions !

you tried and failed to rejoin a race infront of others that had a right to the road (infront of your rights) and to blame them for not slowing down does not make you blameless , so you have been given the penalty "Appallingly Bad Rejoin" which is right ... if it had been me i'd have thrown the book at you because with your skill i'd have expected better .

i hope that you take this advise in the right way , but i know you won't and expect a reply (that i won't reply to .. so you might as well make it as long and as complex as you like) .

happy racing .

john

No, JR, as I said as soon as the race was over, I know what I did was not ideal, but if you really observe the replay you will see Raoni hitting Arf as a separate incident that was going to happen regardless whether I accelerated and turned around to rejoin, or not. What I take from it is knowledge that with the Porsche, at least with the gear ratio I had, even if you floor the throttle, it's not enough to overcome the amount of grip and tire scrubbing while you have the front wheels close to full opposite lock, and thus the revs would drop.  ;) To imply that I should know such a thing in advance based on my amount of experience is unrealistic though. My experience is mostly with the F1 cars and in those it would've worked just fine. Do you practice such rejoins yourself? I don't.  :D Anyway, I do take responsibility for the rejoin, but I was not the only one at fault in the whole situation and an incident would have happened anyway.

And as for the other incident, I've already said clearly what I think about it, so my point about the 5 places lost overall was based on my views on whose fault it was for causing that incident.

To be honest, I really don't care if someone hits me at a race. Of course, we always try to be the cleanest driver as possible and don't like to hit or to be hit by someone. But, there's nothing better to hear a "sorry" from a driver who hits you, or to say "sorry" if you crash into someone. It's one of the most gallant words that exists.

Hristo, I admire you for being so fast, even when driving on the limit. But, what's the problem to say "sorry"? What's the problem to assume a mistake? Even the greatest drivers of the world made mistakes one day and were gentlemans enough to say sorry about their mistakes. ;)

You drove on the wrong way into me and Arf. This is a fact. Period. I have to be honest to say that I hadn't seen again the replay before today (once Arf reported the accident before me). Maybe I would really rear ended Arf even if you didn't had done this terrible rejoin. So, my apologies to Arf...and I'll be accepting any kind of penalty if I receive it.

And yes, this is definetely a computer game. I can't comprehend how a penalty of a virtual race can provide such a boring and unnecessary discussion. I - and I think that most of us - face it as a place to keep ourselves free of the problems of the real life - sometimes like work, family, disease.. - and to share some laughs, a good conversation and some races.

Of course, we all want to do our best, to beat our opponents, but always in a good mood. But, if we turn GPL into a new reason to be stressed and to make fight...well, we're having a problem. Serious....so serious. ??? I don't think that a penalty of a virtual race can be so stressing. It doesn't affects our real life, our healthy, our friends, or even the value of the Dollar or Euro...

I'm not better than anyone to say how or who someone have to behave, but just a good advice: a virtual community (for any kind of theme) is not the best place to create enemies. Or at least don't try to create enemies. Life is too short for misery :)

And SORRY everybody for my boring text. I really don't like when a polemic incident takes the place of the race, which is what really matter...

(And lets go to Rouen!) ;D

Well said Raoni.... those are very good words.

Thanks Raoni !!!

...and lets enjoy Rouen  ;D

You said it perfectly Raoni,

Lets draw a line under this and move on and enjoy our racing.

My  Compliments Raoni, I could not have said it better than you.

I would not want to say this sort of intimidation should serve to Hristo in occasion another situation like this should occur, it should means, the moderators should avoid another situation like this if they think that every incident with Hristo could hide big arguing like in this case.

It only was sufficent some words like: SORRY GUYS, MY MISTAKE!
but  maybe these words are not in certain dictionaries.

I think only a thing, years of skill and experience wasted in a stupid discussion. Well done Hristo! Go ahead Hristo, we will waste our summer holidays to read your news. ;) :P

The reason I did not say sorry to you, Raoni, is because you were all offensive in the chat after the race without even seeing the replay, when in reality (and as you observed in the replay), you would have hit Arf regardless of what I did. The reason I'm so convinced is because I compared yours, Arf's and the two leading car's speed at the moment of turning into the hairpin. You may assume Arf slowed down more than he would have otherwise done if I was not turning in front of him, but in fact his speed was about equal to that of the leader of the race (who had nobody rejoining in front of him), it was higher than 2nd placed car, and yours was higher than all 3, some 10-15 km/h faster just before impact. Also Arf's direction of travel was set before I began to turn around, so he did not turn earlier in a diagonal line because of seeing my car move. At the moment where you and Arf started braking, I hadn't moved yet. In fact I did not move until you passed about 1/4th of your braking distance, by which time you were already braking at maximum efficiency and even if I did not turn in front of Arf, his speed would not have differed much, if at all.

I've heard from a couple of people you tend to brake too late in general and you do that right from lap 1 when it's a very risky thing to do, especially with keyboard where you can't modulate the braking effort, so next time instead of attacking me for doing something wrong, take a look what you did wrong first. I'm not going to say sorry to someone who has not even realized his own mistake yet demands an apology for me. Some people use the word "sorry" very lightly and it loses all its meaning, it just sounds false. I may be saying "sorry" on very rare occasions, but it would be a honest and real apology.

In racing incidents like these the responsibility is always shared, it's not one-sided, so to demand an apology from just one of the drivers is not something I can accept. Personally I don't need someone to say sorry to me, I would rather have them learn from what they did wrong and try not to repeat it the next race. That is my only wish here really, learning from mistakes but without going overboard with it by asking people to dumb down their race craft and race like grandmas on public roads.


Well, that's the kind of attitude which would keep leading to more incidents involving you in the future, because you choose not to learn anything from it and you choose to keep thinking you did nothing wrong (when in fact your moves were the most aggressive and appalling). Calling this a stupid discussion is all I need to know about your personality and approach to racing, the rest does not interest me.

This is a stupid discussion because you turned it in such a way without any reason, and what is worst is that you continue discuting. You mounted all this movie and then you'r in stall. What a move !!!
It seems all we have only duties Vs you, while you have only rights Vs the others, this is what you should have to mind. Anyway don't worry I'll take an eye pointed on you next time I'll meet you on  a track expecially if you'll be behind (it could be a rare case but it could be always possible).
And yes I did something wrong, I absolutely didn't think to smash you out and I'm sorry for this I've lost the opportunity to make a favour to alot of us during the race LOL!!!
I've seen another bad behaviour coming from you at Brands, you were 2 secs faster than me and unexplicably I've found you in front of me and, now I figure out you did it because of a team play. And this continued also after I spun off. Team play is to help team mates not to block opponents making team mates coming closer in a race also having the possibility to run away faster. This is called obstructionism. Try to do this thing again and you will see what will happens then.

Without any reason? If you really think that then you're simply blind or did not read anything I've said, nor watched the video. I had all reason to be unhappy and maybe it's because you're new to UKGPL, but I've seen hundreds of situations and the subsequent moderation verdicts on them, and this one is simply incomparable.

Also, right with this last post of yours, you just proved how such moderation leads to drivers like yourself not learning anything from it and even threatening to play it as dirty in the future races. A favour for a lot of us driving, you say? Your retirement would've been a big favour to all in that race, not mine! The number of situations you created and were involved in, and your baseless blames towards backmarkers after the race, only supports my claim.

As for team play, lol, I can't believe you're going to cry about that now. I didn't weave, I didn't block (something you're very inclined to do every time a car is close to you), and you simply lost control on your own and now blame me for that? Pathetic... really pathetic. You speak of long gone past races, which at the time you said nothing about and complained nothing about, but now you start making things up because you can't come up with anything real to defend your statements.

Try that again and see what happens next? Good, I'm looking forward to being rearended by you, LOL. People like you should not be allowed to race in a league...  ::)

This is not directed at anyone in particular, but if you think it is you then consider why.

Some of the last postings have been quite unhelpful Gentlemen. We want respect in the forums and good clean racing. The rest is unnecessary and unhelpful to UKGPL as a whole.

Personal attacks and threats of retribution have absolutely no place on the forums.

Yes you'r right I said nothing about Brands at that time because I thought it was not the case being myself the author of my spun off and over all of my engine problems but I've seen your race from the cameracar of the pilots behind you and now I can understand your moves. I come from roller speed skating I practiced at good national level for almost 17 years when I was young and I know very well what does it means TEAM PLAY m8 !!!

Stop it, Clouds, you get annoyng already...

OK!