SimRacing.org.uk

Apologies for the late posting. Onto our next event, Hristo leads in Works with Ronnie heading up the Privateers.

The Works will run on PRO Damage and Privateers will run on Intermediate Damage with the allowance of ONE shift-R reset. No Shift-Rs are allowed in practice unless authorized by the moderator. A Shift-R (fault or not) MUST be followed by a Stop & Go. A Shift-R for tyres/fuel is not allowed. Any driver taking more then ONE Shift-R OR failing to take a Stop & Go will be disqualified from the race result.

Race List = IGOR
Server(s);
Works = UKGPL_Gpg
IP address = 62.195.32.131
Privateers = UKGPL_T7_2
IP address = 62.149.202.168
Race date = 14-08-2011
Time = 21:00 UK time
Track = Sandown 68
Variant = 67F1
Damage Model = Works; PRO / Privateers; INT
Qualifying time = 35 minutes. Don't start until 30 mins left on clock to allow everyone to join.
Race length = 50 minutes (laps 44)
Password: see above (#post_event_password)

Driver lists can be found on the Works (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=302&theme=6) or Privateers (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=303&theme=6) championship standings pages.
The track can be downloaded from : http://home.iprimus.com.au/lowe24/Sandown%201968/ (http://home.iprimus.com.au/lowe24/Sandown%201968/)
Add-on’s available at : n/a

NOTE:
There was mention of problems with this track and a fix is here (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3551334/GPL-Stuff/tracks/dedsvr_Sand68_addon.zip)

Please be in IGOR UKGPL chatroom by 8:50 pm UK Time

Reserve drivers should not join the server(s) until there are only 30 minutes of qualifying left. Please restrict chat to pit messages. Moderating will be by reported incidents only, however the moderators reserve the right to review any incident with a particular emphasis on lap one. The aim is to review the race the following weekend so incident reports should be submitted within five days of the race (ie the following Friday). We're hopeful most incidents can be resolved amicably and recommend a days deep breath with a replay review before posting. A sorry in the forum won't be taken as an automatic admission of guilt by the moderators. There will be FULL moderation of lap one regardless of whether you submit an incident report.
The Works will run on PRO Damage and Privateers will run on Intermediate Damage with the allowance of ONE shift-R reset. No Shift-Rs are allowed in practice unless authorized by the moderator. A Shift-R (fault or not) MUST be followed by a Stop & Go. A Shift-R for tyres/fuel is not allowed. Any driver taking more then ONE Shift-R OR failing to take a Stop & Go will be disqualified from the race result.

With the token system chassis strategy will be a factor. A driver must have sufficient tokens for the chassis he drives in the race.  Any driver who does not have sufficient tokens will be disqualified from the result and his tokens will be set to zero.

Chassis costs;
Lotus 20 / Eagle 17 / Ferrari 15 / Brabham 10 / Cooper 5 / Honda 3 / BRM 0

To see your current tokens hover your mouse over your total points on the Works (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=302&theme=6) or Privateers (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=303&theme=6) championship standings pages. Ten tokens will be added when you cross the start line.

There are two 67 Championships, namely Works and Privateers. The driver split will be;

WORKS drivers

Arf Arf Arf	Baab	Beefpie
Evil Clive	Fulvio Policardi	Tim FMG
Hristo Itchov	ivandjj	John Roberts
Rick Nauman	Sam B	Tom van O
Jethro W	Karliss (R)	Will Tway (R)
Goran Jonsson (R)

PRIVATEERS drivers

Bernie	Billy	Blito
Hannah	Fabio L	Mike T
Mike (miner)	Nigel Smith	Ronnie P
Ross N	Skymole 2173	Vosblod
Paul (Badblood) (R)	Steve Bird (R)	Happy Al (R)
PaulWBird (R)	Martin (Maddog)	Geoff Heard
Dave Rainier (R)

67 Patch: The 1.3 Release of the 67mod can be used.

NOTE: Please ensure you join the correct server, due to the way we import if you start the race on the wrong server your result will not count.

REPLAYS
Privateers server replays will be posted in the usual place after the event. Works will now be posted at http://grandprix.xs4all.nl/ (http://grandprix.xs4all.nl/) . When downloading please check the timetable for other races and DO NOT download while another race is being run.

Afternoon...

There appears to be some kind of server update here (http://forum.gplracer.eu/topic.php?id=1420&page=1&s=db82fd74c55e10d405a1431a3eaa32c3#14279), not entirely sure if its the right one of if the current release of the track includes the patch anyway.

are you confusing the two sandown tracks ?

I know of no problems with sandown 68 nor of any patch for the track other than the final version for download on the site , maybe there was a beta version before ?

the file name is "Sand68_Standard_Final.zip" so maybe there was a older version .

found here http://home.iprimus.com.au/lowe24/Sandown%201968/

i've had many races at sandown67 without a problem , who says there is a problem with this track and where ?

john

Stefan reported it here http://srmz.net/index.php?showtopic=4540&st=0 (http://srmz.net/index.php?showtopic=4540&st=0)
Actually I've now found the patch here (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3551334/GPL-Stuff/tracks/dedsvr_Sand68_addon.zip) so hopefully all OK once you install it... Hence now removed the note re track issues.

I've just installed the track fix, and things look seriously different.  The new 3do has removed most of the trackside objects, and the draw distance has been massively shortened.  :'(  It looks like a quick fix that needed something better.

The track download readme is from May '06, and the fix dates to November '06.  This suggests it's needed.  I think it's undesirable, and wish there was a Server up, and 10 drivers to test it, in it's original version.   

Do we or don't we need this patch? I hope not as I have no great desire to relearn the way the track looks and drives so late on!

Just looked at this and its awful and undrivable in my view. Please can someone confirm whether we have to use this patch????

It's unfortunate that Paul is on holiday so we can't test it on UKGPL_3.
I will put T7_2 on a 'test' run tomorrow afternoon so you can try with and without it. All I know is GPL Racer mentioned they had issues without the patch in a league race BUT sometimes these things just happen as a one off (? server issues) and there are no further problems with the track...

Any other comments on what it looks like with the 'fix'?

If the fix is essential, then I'd rather race at Rouen.  :P

Shame, because its a nicely made track otherwise.

What about Sandown 67 which JR says has no issues? I've only raced Sandown once, long ago in BREASTS I think, and there were no problems, but I don't know which version it was. It looked good though, with objects and graphics, so it couldn't have been that patched one.

Yeah, the fix is no good imo... id rather drive rouen...a track I hate...

The default track looks gorgeous tho, and it doesnt look like ot has bugs... Not so sure that it will have problems...

And, when reading that buggy track list, all the names look familiar... am i just emagining things, or we drove atleast half of them this season?  :laugh:

We also drove some in the past 2-3 seasons (with fatal results).  :D

We drove this seazon Sachsenring, Adelaide, Brno, Monza10k, Brands Hatch (50 times), and i think Goodwood, Le Mans and Zeltweg too.... all on the risky list. On the other hand I dont see Sandown 67, so really, why not drive that instead?

I only know of only 2 Sandown versions, so assume John is referring to 'Sandown'.  The 'Steffan' link Vosblod provided, shows it too, has problems.  Without pretesting, we must assume either track is a gamble.  And when the recommended fix is used, getting lost is a gamble!  Place your bets.

sandown 68 i have no issue with .

john

To repeat the patched track is dreadful. The track simply floats in air in places as if its up in the sky!!! The change/lack of trackside objects makes any practice to date of little use. Providing I don't lose any tokens this might be one of the two races I drop if we can't race Sandown68 as planned, its that bad.

from what i read the patch for the track is only for the sever ... or did i miss something ?

john

Yep...  :-[ but i dont want to drive rouen...

The 'dodgy' tracks lists are difficult things, sometimes issues are down to server blips and not to do with the tracks themselves. Sometimes you can do a hundred races on a track and a 'fault' only shows up once.
Sandown (original) definately has a lot of negative feedback for online races.

I feel a bit caught between the devil and the deep blue sea here. We can run it as is but risk something or go for the patch (I gather from the GPL Racer correspondence it's not just for the server John). Seems everyone, so far, hates how it looks after the patch.

So here's what we'll do; run as is, if you don't like the patch don't use it, and if there are any problems along the lines of a mass disco in Qually we will switch to a shorter qually and run Rouen. Sorry if it's all a bit last minute but I didn't think there was a problem and maybe there isn't. I can only see what you guys can...
Rouen is a back-up as a currently used track and a Papy so it doesn't entail (hopefully) lot's of extra practice.

well i haven't seen where sandown68 is a bad track or one effected by discos , so unless somebody has concrete evidence i think we should stick with sandown 68.

i don't see why we have to run the patch that screws up the gfx , the final version as i linked above has been fine as far as i know .

john

A patch for the Server, would suggest clients were also at risk.  It's likely, it was done quickly, to reduce problems at the Server end.  Perhaps a more thourough reduction in mip size, and less dramatic draw change, would improve things clientwise, but that's not a 24hr option.  We're in the dark, and relying on heresay, without trying what we've got, so let's give it a go.
                                               :scooter:

also that patch was also before both v2 rasterizers , so i think we should stick with the final 68 sandown version .

john

I think a rerun should happen even if just a single driver suffers a screen freeze, either in qualifying or in the race, instead of relying on a mass screen freeze to happen. Mass discos (caused by freeze) are extreme and rare, usually tracks which are prone to screen freeze affect only a selected few drivers, about 30-40% of all participants. We can't rely on having a mass disco for a rerun, because it's unlikely to happen.

For that reason, if we go on with this track, can we have a guarantee that if any of us suffer a screen freeze (with proof of course), we are going to rerun this? I would hate to see the championship decided by such random factors right at its end...

this track has been listed for months .. we shouldn't change things at the last month without proof that the track is bad .

john

Yeah, im definelty getting a screenfreeze tommorow... maybe at the end of the season at the rerun il be fast enough to win...;D

Seriously, thats too much imo...and what proof? What if I unplug the internet cable? Or shut down my pc form the button? And i think i saw some 67 races, where barely the half of the field finished... stuff happens, and they didnt do reruns just because ferraris had faulty swaybars installed or because lotus's suspension couldnt handle nuburgring...

So what if there are 2 more tracks, does that justify compromising this race by not avoiding a gamble?

All I'm asking is not to switch to another track, but have some guarantee that if anyone suffers a freeze, we would rerun it at another track at the end of the season. Haven't we had more than enough races ruined because of screen freezing tracks in the last few seasons (in all divisions)? I think we've had...

As for proof, I'm not really sure, but if you have someone running comfortably in a good position (relative to his usual position in races) and suddenly disappears, and later says it was a freeze, why would he lie? There's no gain from that, lol.

i don't belive this track is a gamble ..where is the proof it is ?

john

Well, what about those people complaining about it? Anyway, I hope you're right.

so do you have any proof ?

john

I think people experiencing screen freeze counts as proof, but no, I don't have any yet personally and I hope I still won't after tomorrow's race, lol.

The only reference I found to a problem re Sandown 68 was one event at GPL Racer which was a while back so hopefully that was a one off, as Martin says that was probably before the V2 rasterizers.

I'm afraid we can't re-run the whole race just because a single driver has a screen freeze. That is prone to happen anywhere and might not be a track problem, how many races do we get where no one has a single problem. When it's a track issue it tends to take out a lot of drivers around the same time and that is what we are looking at.

With all due respect, and not accusing anyone here of being underhand, but a driver who goes out in a comfortable position and can then claim a freeze to get a re-run would, of course, get another shot at the race regardless of the underlying reasons for their disappearance.

Besides the point, but this track is very narrow with lots of kerbs and quite a short lap, which should guarantee that some runners will be lapped and it being relatively difficult to do so.  I am not looking forward to racing on it and would put money on there being some appreciable stacks.  Probably more for small cars/karts than 400bhp monsters.  Of course this is just my opinion...possibly Arf's too.

When the tracks are chosen is track width a factor?

Of course this is very 11th hour and this is not a request to change (I drove the circuit only recently).  Have to see how the race pans out.

Bob.

Hooray for a practice server, thanks!!!!!

In my mind screen freezes have always something to do with the track. Even if there are other factors, if the track itself is not prone to screen freeze (i.e. Papy tracks), it won't happen.

What sadistic swine picked this track? I don't think I'll bother - which is a pity. No way I could stay out of the way and not block people off and ruin their races.

Wasn't expecting to be around anyway so nothing lost I guess.

Can't say I am impressed with the Aussie tracks though... :(

I don't think lapping will be a problem as long as the lappers are patient and wait until they are on the straights before passing.

What if they are only faster in the corners!!! :'(

Ha ha, you know it is!! I certainly agree that this seems to be an odd choice for the 67s. Just did some lapping in a 65 Ferrari to persuade myself that this is a nice course, and it works with lower powered engines...in fact it was quite a lot of fun. I shall now join the 67 practice server and see how much fun that is.

Due to the traffic chaos in west and south west London today (which has persuaded me to leave London for the actual Olypmics, this was just practice travel chaos....oh and some blokes on fast bicycles ;D), I shall be in tonight, so I might as well give it a go, but had planned to avoid this race. I don't think I'm giving anything away by declaring that my strategy for the race will be the same as got me 2nd at Lakeside - slow and no risks, only passing the carcasses of those on more aggressive approaches! Those lapping me please have patience - you can put yourself out the race moving slightly off line (ask Paul if you don't believe me  :D)!

Arf^3

It's quite simple - when you undertake an overtake, avoid being overtaken by the usual tendancies.  This track requires give and take, to avoid risking a change of unders, or being taken to the cleaners, lest you're taken over with a need, to be undertaken, by the Undertakers ! :o 

As long as backmarkers cooperate.  ;)


Well said!  :D

Thanks for those pearls of wisdom Martin and Hristo. :laugh:

Well - Ronnie has dragged me around to a 1:16 so maybe I will play. Still think its horrible though.

Well, that track is great...from the kind i enjoy...lapping at...now racing is another thing. Monaco setups work great here, with a few clics higher fifth gear, if that would be of any help.

Nope  ;D

Best I've done in my handful of laps is a 1:14 so we could be having a few giggles watching the fast guys trying to laps us ;)

Bet your worst is better than 1:48 though Steve...

 :laugh:

I think my first lap was about 3 and a half hours!

Early bath for me after a race full of errors.

Enjoyed a good battle for pole with Dave, Ronnie and Martin, I think we all had top spot until Dave came through at the end to snatch it. Early on I was following Dave and nipped past during some confusion with a backmarker, at this point all was going well.

Shortly after I muffed a gearchange and spun, and had to wait for a gap in which to do a spin turn. Having completed it, I waited off the racing line but as Hannah passed me, Skymole hit him and the two went off. I carried on, but well down on time.

The next ten to fifteen laps were spent picking my way back up, still making the odd error and struggling for consistency. Eventually I spun chasing Dave who must have had problems of his own, and I damaged my car. I took a reset but then decided to retire anyway as I think a reset is only allowed in the event an engine blow or fatal shunt.

Can't say I enjoyed by first outing in the Honda but at least I saved some tokens for next time.

Grats to the podium boys, whoever you may be!

Screen froze just at the end of qually, and I had to reboot my pc, and only just made the grid. Blood got past me on start straight and I was chasing him with Clive behind me for 7/8 laps until Blood suddenly started appearing and disappearing in front of me. At one stage I had to avoid what seemed to be a ghost image of a car which put me off the track. I think Clive saw the chance to pass me as I fought to keep control.... and the next thing I saw him sliding off in the direction of the bridge....hope that wasn't anything to do with me Clive....

Then things just got weird and my steering wheel's FFB was kicking randomly, and it gave me one just when I was setting up for the right hander to head round past the guttering before the bridge. This of course allowed me a closer look at the guttering and one of my rears liked the view so much it decided to stay back for more. Bugger.

Have to say I enjoyed it. Hard track and I had to concentrate a LOT. Not too many spins or crashes and only 1 reset. Finished 5 laps down but I DID finish. Best ever 67's result. Must get the wife to go away more often :)

Not a great result but really enjoyed it.

Qualifying was OK once I found a gap and warmed the tyres and the first 10 laps went great, lapping with the leader and running in second but then I blew the engine.

Got going again and climbed back a bit but running in a lonely 4th I made a couple of errors and damaged the car which became unpredictable at times but if I was very smooth it was OK but it eventually bit me and it was race over. I was very happy with my setup and I finally felt I was driving the car rather than it driving me. Well, for the first 10 laps anyway.

Backmarkers were great on a narrow track so thanks all.

Had a scary moment lapping Paul when I had to stick the tail out and it must have almost hit him.

Nowhere near Mike - I was busy crashing at the time having left too much room and thus leaving the track  ;D

Tough race was this one, Sandown certainly commands attention.

Practice paid off in Qualifying, just nipped to a UKGPL lap record by Hristo though, normal service resumed. :P

In the race I chased Hristo to the finish... and that's pretty much it. Everyone was very courteous when allowing others to lap them, its appreciated.

Pretty pleased with another podium, Grats H, Ronnie and all the survivors. :)

You've still got the lap record on the practice server Beefpie!

Excellent. ;)

Looks like a close run thing in both divisions.

Well done Joe, keeping that close to the resident alien, Hristo, is something you should be pleased with, you seem to be getting consistency to go with your speed.

Time for you to stop all that real-life racing I think, and concentrate on GPL :D

I thought this was going to be a bit of a chore when I started my practice session but it turned out to be an enjoyable track to drive once I'd got into a rhythm. The race saw me spin off a few too many times with ensuing time consuming 3 point turns but fortunately without serious damage and I managed to pick up a few points as the last of the finishers.
I was surprised to see team mate Bernie take an early bath  - the result of not having had enough time to practice I'd guess. That's what comes from ignoring the golden rule -Sunday is for the Soggies, not the seaside :D

Phew that was hard work. I'm glad to have finally finished a race, my first since Westfield I believe  :o. That said, there was really no hope of a podium as I was miles off the pace, even for such a short lap. Made a reasonable start to pass Arf on the first lap and from then on it was a lonely drive to the flag.

I apologise for my warping car Arf. Normally my internet doesn't give me too much grief these days so I hope what happened was only a one off that race. Congrats to H, Joe and Bob on their podium places.

A race to remember, from start to end, from last to first, and various points in between.  But I personally believe, this race should've been red flagged, as soon as it's rightful owner took the lead.  With all the worry about freezing disco's, gyrations, and curvature, it was all enough to throw one into a spin - several times, in fact ! ::)

I suspected from practice, the racing would be close.  I chose the quick getaway option, as did my accursed rivals.  Managed to outdrag Ross going over the hill, for 2nd, but rubbed the next inside kerb, slewing gracefully from the oncoming crowd, down to a virtual last.  Made a second 360 to remedy the dizziness, and proceeded to chase.

By mid-race I was hunting down Ronnie for 3rd, and by the time I arrived, he'd maken the lead.  I chose the same hill as the first lap, to make my pass on, sans rub, but spun it away within a lap.  So the process was repeated - my Brabham was faster, his tenacity was unpretentious . . . was what?  Anyway, a similar spin left me bereft, and new man Dave in 2nd.  He'd sneaked up on us, and with my tyres now shot, I could no longer close the gap. :-\

The replay tells of an amazing battle for the win, with use of grass, track and armco, by Ronnie, to told off a charging Dave.  Epic stuff, great win !  Hope all were rewarded with a good race, on a challenging track.  It wasn't boring, and I didn't notice any slouches !  Nonetheless, I think a red flag, while I was leading, would've been the preferred option.

Yes well done Ronnie on the win, and (I think) the title too!  :clap:

Big hangover form a weekend of a different kind of racing around the irish sea for me .

Lack of practise plus the change of pace from "round the cans yacht racing" to "Aussy haybailing" left me floundering for a decent qually lap , changed a few things and made a 1m10'ish which felt good for the Coop thought not good for the grid but hoped to do well in the race .

The Coop on race fuel was a different animal to that of qually (felt more like a canal barge than a racer ), but  I knew it would improve when the rubber bits came up to temperature , however I pushed too hard too soon in my efforts to keep up , lost track of the track and found myself trying to impregnate one of those impregnable haybails (some kind of WW2 surplus tank trap ) left lying around to make sure that GPL  never gets too boring for the spectators .

Clean forgot the S/R rule (again) and had already hit the Esc key to retire from what could have been a good race for me and the Soggies (Sorry Mike )

Did like this track a lot , thought it was interesting and challenging to drive, but that it would need lots more practise from me to find the best lines and corner apex points to get those really good laps .

Grats to the Pods , to Ronnie for the title , and to all who finished .  

It is interesting what constitutes a good track. The racing was close for sure but when you are as slow as I am (and 1:14 represented a four second improvement from practice!) you spend most of your time looking in the mirrors and practising getting off the apex! Wider tracks are so much easier to let people past on. It was really hard to find places to let leaders past without compromising your lap by three or four seconds.

I guess I'll know I've improved when I start to look forward more than back...

I know I won but it was a great race with some very close racing throughout. Dave and Martin probably deserved better but I like to think I drove well enough to deserve this one as well.

Yeah the title challenge is looking good but its not over yet (wait for the moderation Ross you may have done better than you think).

Really liked the track. Tight, narrow, hard to pass but produced some great battles in particular with Martin and Dave who never gave me a moments rest once I took the lead.

Grats to Paul as well, 6th and a 1.14. That must constitute a good nights work mate.

Roll on Spa!

I suppose that depends which way your car is facing......  ;D ;D ;D

LOL  ;D

I dont think I should find that very funny  >:(

But I do...  :D

My Advice

Quit worrying about being a back marker and get on with your own race , the faster boys will find there own way past when they have to . IMO  No major deviation from the racing line or sudden moves is the way to go !

Some of my best friends are well known backmarkers  ;)

 

Sage words Bernie

Mind you if I could avoid deviating from the line I might not be such a backmarker  ;D

Main thing is I am getting some racing whereas last season it was lonely out the back...

Leaps and bounds Paul , leaps and bounds .

I vividly remember how long it took me to get familiar with Mosspot , literaly hated the place , the off camber blind downhill left , the stupidly fast approach to the hairpin , lemming leap etc.

I was almost neg at the ring but was still way off with mossy .

Well, I made total mess out if that one... Il probably get 50 penalty points for it. Car vas never behaving propetly, tyres didnt want to heat up at all, and grip was different from lap to lap... lots of hillarious moments, that are probably my fault, but whatever... first, I was passing hannah, and he went to left, but then saw someone crashed near the wall and swerved right into me... after that i was passing hannah again, at the long straight before the left/right corners, missed my braking point and engaged in crazy drift, passing hannah and scraping his tyre walls...not sure if he survived, i did. And seems i was causing troubles for lappers too... At the straight before that tricky bridge chicane, I saw a blue flag and slowed, going to the left, but noone passed me, probably messing his exit. I slowed even more, but he still couldnt catch me...and then the straight was over, i was way to the left, and whoever was the overlapper came with full steam aiming at rear end of my car. Add to that numerious spins and crashes and you get the picture...

You probably will get your radio licence endorsed  ;D

Moderation now published

Hm... I agree with penalty points, but they were given for tottaly the wrong reasons... From all the messes i made in the race, i get penalized for the one I have least fault for? And I wasnt even truyng to overtake hannah, because he was 2 laps down at that point. He slowed for me to pass him, what I tryed to do... whatever.

Sky, I think Hannah slowed to go around my car, rather than to let you by.

The reason you weren't punished for our incident later in the race is that I chose not to report it. Lap one is fully moderated in Privateers, as it is in all series here at UKGPL. Other than that the moderator will only look at reported incidents. The only exception is Novices which for which the whole race is moderated.

I realise you are annoyed to receive a penalty but hopefully you can understand the reasons behind it. See you at Spa on Sunday.

I think he was more annoyed by the fact that it was viewed as if he was passing Hannah for a position, therefore defining untrue motives for his maneuver, instead of simply because he was lapping a backmarker. It's like he was being accused for taking advantage of a yellow flag zone to gain a position when apparently that wasn't the case.

All I can say is per the report above the reason for the pass is not relevant as the fact is flags were showing for an incident and you accelerated rather then slowed. Passing or lapping caution still needs to be taken, the only difference in a lapping situation is the driver being lapped must, as far as possible, try to let you by as soon as possible. They would not be expected to try and let a car by when they are themselves attempting to avoid hitting a stricken car.

I believe that passing of any kind under yellows is not allowed in real life racing unless exceptional circumstances apply. Is that not so?

I think it only applies to gaining a position against a direct competitor(s) within a yellow flag zone, and I doubt it's valid for all racing series in existence.

Yellow flags are a grey area, but I believe they apply to all cars, traveling at, or approaching racing speed. :smartass:

I am pretty sure that it does not just apply to direct competition since you have to be ready to stop in case marshals are on the track. There was an incident last year where Vettel passed (a lapped) Trulli under yellows and it went to the stewards. He was OK because Trulli had a seperate problem, but the fact that it was referred at all indicates that any passing, even of a lapped racer, is a no-no in F1 and that is what we are simulating.

The point of not passing in yellow flag zone is simply to prevent a driver behind from gaining an advantage against a driver in front who has arrived first where the zone is and has chosen (or was forced) to slow down. It's not so much to do with safety. You can't obviously gain an advantage over a backmarker, so it logically applies to directo competitors only. Marshals are not allowed to go on the track, yellow flags or not, so any passing maneuvers can be executed without putting marshals at danger. As for the drivers, they already accept the risks involved.

In any case, let's not use modern F1 as an example, because it's an outrage how much they've taken control and forbid all the little things that are the essence of racing. If we use modern F1 as a guideline, we might as well not race at all, lol.

The point is, we don't even have marshals, so the only problem I see is gaining advantage in a yellow zone. Since it's next to impossible to know who has seen what flags on their GPL client, it should only be an issue when an actual incident happens. Otherwise I'd have to ask for a review of hundreds of situations where I was passed for a position at a yellow flag zone, or I have passed other cars for position in the same manner...

For future reference only, I'm not after penalties for anybody in the Privateers race, but I note from the replay that one or two drivers took there shift-r while stationary in the pits, thus avoiding the need to actually take a shift-r and then return to the pits for a stop and go. Is this allowed?

Hmm we are in danger of getting too specific about an incident. Mind you I guess a valid point is being raised re flags and Sky seems happy to discuss it.

Putting aside F1 rules UKGPL rules have this to say on Yellow Flags;
"Yellow and green flags
Drivers have a duty to drive safely and well within their limits when they have passed a yellow flag. Stay on the racing line unless it is blocked. Drivers may not overtake any car they are racing with, until they are sure they have passed a green flag or they are sure they have passed the incident and the green flag has been taken in. (Sometimes a yellow flag is shown when a car loses and then quickly regains control, so the green flag may be gone by the time the driver passes the next marshall)."
So, passing a lapped car under yellows is not directly banned. Depends how you define 'racing with'; even a lapped car forms part of the race as they are racing and on the track and in front of you.

However, nowhere have I said Sky is being penalised for an attempted pass/overtake. The penalty is for a lack of care approaching an incident so, as said before, whether Hannah was in a race situation or being lapped is irrelevant.
As an aside, due to the flagman waving a yellow, Hannah would not have had the opportunity to see a Blue flag and we cannot assume everyone has Pribluda so it can't be taken for granted he knew Sky wished to lap him.

I disagree. It's more to prevent even more collisions occuring. If we just ignore yellows and incidents ahead our pile-up rate could start mounting. Anyway as I say, in this instance, the penalty is not for an attempted pass/overtake.

If there is no incident it's unlikely to be reported and hence penalised. An exception would be the GT warm-up lap where it is clear you must not pass other cars. I would say, in this particular incident, Ross had been struggling for 30 odd seconds so the yellow would have been showing for a while.

;D

Hmm I looked at every single reset that showed up in the Mechanical Report and everyone appeared to go round and Stop n Go after the Sh/R? The only time I saw someone reset near the pits was when Mike J blew an engine and then pulled over to the side/entrance to the pit lane and reset. However he then went round and did a full SnG. Am I missing something? I rely on the GPLRA report to pick up everything.

No problem.  8)

For me this rule is simple: No lapping under yellow flags.

I'm not an motorsport expert, but I've never heard about racing series where drivers can lap slower cars under yellow flags(but I heard about series, where drivers can un-lap themselves).

The basic principle of yellow flags is to warn you of danger up ahead. Anything else is made up by the racing series authorities. And as for GPL, you can't really know if a driver has seen yellow flags (or other flags), or not, as well as IF the driver has seen the flags even if they were being waved/shown at that moment. So I'm glad we don't go and penalize such things directly, because half of the time it would be unfair.

And no, I don't think we were discussing this particular incident, but rather just the general topic of yellow flag situations. In my opinion any pre-determined rule on how to act on the track is bound to failure, because you don't have time to think when things happen, you have to make quick decisions. It's more about having common sense, trained habits, respect and predictable behavior. All that is what avoids accidents, not following made up yellow flag rules to a T.

As I said, passing under yellow flags happens in almost every race we have in GPL, because situations just unfold rapidly, in an instant. Now if someone is willing to give up a position when they realize they have passed under yellow, that's up to them, but I have not seen anyone doing that.  ;D

The rules regarding yellow flags Vosblod has outlined, closely match those of the 1960's.   Precise circumstances for exacting rules, were too hard, or too limiting to pin down.  There was always a degree of reliance on common sense, connected to individual driving skill, as well as an element of self-preservation involved.  We each still have these, to varying degrees.  ::)

Hello,

To fully understand the incident it would be best to view the replay to see Skymole did not have the room to pass considering speed and the barrier.

It is quite interesting that Sky went underneath my car hence the after race dialog mad by Mr. Neilson. I am sure he said "good grief" when he saw that.

Malcolm