most of it is inherant from the suspension/chassis setups of these cars and as such is not an easily remedied problem.

I no longer get the snap oversteer under braking in the 360....due to setup tweaks and as above for the Marcos, altering my driving style to suit it. I reckon we could tweak physics for ever but still not get passed the problems, and in some respects may damage the characteristics of the cars.

What I meant was some people are a little put off by being midfield in, for instance GT1 class and knowing they are 500/600 (or 50/60 in a different scoring system) points off the pace of the Aliens....it somehow 'lessens' the will to compete for the championship. It's not a big problem but it has been mentioned on occasion in the forums.

By having smaller championships I think this would show up less (within each seperate class championship) so would be less of a problem.

  why's that TT?

Would it work by having one of the enduro slots 'All' classes ie GT1 GT2 GTc and GT3 ?

I realise it would mean fewer cars competing in each class but it would also mean that everybody is catered for and a vast range of cars available. It would also make for some interesting racing due to traffic and speed differences and in some way help to illiminate the 'points gap' between the top drivers and the midfield making the championships look 'closer' and more worth fighting for.

To start the ball rolling, I have just done 20 laps at Donington in it with basically the default setup. (changed to softs allround and altered the steering lock angle to suit my rig).

The problems mentioned by TT were immediately apparent, especially the snap oversteer under braking and sideways acceleration and to a lesser degree, overheating brakes.

However, by the end of the session I could get the car round ok, minimising the problems by altering how I drove only...I didn't stop to alter the setup.

Best time of 1:28:3, which is reasonable but with setup changes I would expect to be able to get within sight of the GT1 lap record with it.
After 20 laps my worse tyre wear (front left) was only 6.8 and my rears were only 4.9 wear.
Brake temps were high, but managable.

What I found was the most of the problems are simply due to the exraordinary power available in the car....too much acceleration and it will try and swap ends....too much engine braking and it will swap ends.
I found you have to be extremely gentle and smooth on the throttle when accelerating out of corners....much more so than in any other GT1 I have driven. It may even be better to use a higher gear than you would think appropriate too, it hardly effects the acceleration due the tremendous power available. Under braking, you need to change down very late when compared to others, ie dont use any engine braking (not that you should anyway, but most of us do). This will lock up the rears everytime, especially the lower gears, regardless of diff settings and is the only way to avoid the snap oversteer.

Do some testing if possible.....but I reckon working on driving technique rather than trying to dial a setup is the way to go.

PS...I may use this in GT1 sprints for S10....it can be tamed.

Never actually driven the Marcos for more than half a dozen laps whilst testing for inclusion here, although those few laps DID let me understand what a beastie it is 

TT has posted that there are a few problems with the car that need to be addressed ie. diff and brakes mainly. However, I have just taken another close look in the files relating to these in the mod.....and basically I can't see that they are in anyway incorrect or can be adjusted to 'improve' the problems without re-designing the entire suspension and reducing it's power to such an extent as to ruin the entire point of the car.

My thoughts are definately turning towards setup and driving style being the best/only real way of addressing these issues.

So I have started this thread so that anyone with a bit of time available can do a few laps in it (be best if done at Donington GP to give a better comparison) and give their views/comments/tips etc to see if we can tame this animal.

 Not everyone likes porches 


as above including Fezzas.

I'm more for greater choice for all personally....and a combined gtc/gt2 certainly offers that.

I am definately up for anything decided, however, I would prefer endurance racing in classes other than GT1.

sounds splendid to me 

only tried the e-type and the alfa so far.....1:39 jag / 1:37:7 alfa

Thanks chaps, fresh install seems to have done the trick...all working as it should now.

Must have done something wrong on previous install  ....but not a clue what.

Just need to find another 10 seconds or so round mosport now. 

All patches installed and this is happening both offline and online.....private test session offline so no AI.

I am going to wipe it and try a fresh install....see what happens.

Anyone know what I have done wrong?

Installed PnG no prob....it works fine right up to the point where I press 'continue' to load the car/track combo and then simply dissapears and puts me back to desktop.  No error messages etc, just a blank screen then desktop.

I'm running

Windows Vista home prmium 64 bit
Inted core quad Q8200
4 gig ram
Nvidia 250GT graphics card.

Any ideas?

Enjoyed that one  

That should be the standard vertigo test track....it's made for it.

PB for pole by nearly half a second  

Race went mostly to plan. I had a moment just as the sky went black though and let Gazza through then struggled round for maybe a lap too many on slicks in the wet and ended up 9 secs behind him after the stop. Soon caught him though, I was lapping 2 or 3 secs a lap quicker on soft wets. I lost it again at the double righthander near the end of the lap with a double downshift spinning me round and Gazza got through again  .....but once again I soon caught him and he didn't put up a fight realising I was quite a bit faster.

Grats everyone, a difficult track in the wet but the racing was good as usual.

Star man Pete.  great work and many thanks for giving over another sunday afternoon for us.

nothing for pseudo's this time around.