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  • S22His Moulinsart: November 01, 2011
November 01, 2011, 10:39:39 PM +0000 - Moulinsart - UKGPL Season 22 (2011-2012) Historic (66)
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
svenvangent
 
Brabham BT11 (BRM V8) F1 1966 1 2:36.033
107.012mph
1 52:41.312
105.636mph
20 2:36.877
106.436mph
Goodyear  
Al Heller
 Clark-Hill Racing
Brabham BT11 (BRM V8) F1 1966 4 +0.544
106.640mph
2 +20.795
104.946mph
20 2:37.383
106.094mph
Goodyear  
G Jonsson
 Black Night Racing
Brabham BT11 (Climax 2.7) F1 1966 5 +1.012
106.322mph
3 +57.380
103.753mph
20 2:37.539
105.989mph
Goodyear  
Phil Thornton
 Antipasti Racing
Ferrari 246 F1 1966 8 +4.330
104.123mph
4 +1:48.760
102.123mph
20 2:41.405
103.450mph
Firestone  
Rainier
 
Brabham BT11 (Climax 2.7) F1 1966 10 +5.071
103.644mph
5 +2:01.085
101.739mph
20 2:39.267
104.839mph
Goodyear  
ivandjj
 
Brabham BT11 (Climax 2.7) F1 1966 7 +4.285
104.152mph
6 +1L
100.676mph
19 2:41.457
103.417mph
Goodyear  
HendyNichols
 
Brabham BT11 (Climax 2.7) F1 1966 13 +7.377
102.181mph
7 +16.178
100.162mph
19 2:41.787
103.206mph
Goodyear  
blito
 Shadows
BRM P261 (1966) F1 1966 17 +9.964
100.589mph
8 +57.372
98.876mph
19 2:43.862
101.899mph
Goodyear  
fpolicardi
 Team7
Ferrari 246 F1 1966 15 +7.494
102.108mph
9 +3L
101.716mph
17 2:40.165
104.251mph
Disco
Firestone  
kinghiro
 Clark-Hill Racing
BRM P261 (1966) F1 1966 2 +0.218
106.863mph
10 +4L
104.796mph
16 2:37.378
106.097mph
Disco
Goodyear  
maddog
 Antipasti Racing
Ferrari 246 F1 1966 18 +18.111
95.883mph
11 +9L
99.563mph
11 2:43.334
102.229mph
Disco
Firestone  
BadBlood
 HikiWazaRacing
Ferrari 246 F1 1966 19 +23.565
92.971mph
12 +10L
90.704mph
10 2:53.606
96.180mph
Disco
Firestone  
Nigel Smith
 HikiWazaRacing
Brabham BT11 (BRM V8) F1 1966 14 +7.455
102.132mph
13 +14L
95.308mph
6 2:44.227
101.673mph
Disco
Goodyear  
andrwe
 
Brabham BT11 (Climax 2.5) F1 1966 9 +5.005
103.686mph
14 +18L
98.564mph
2 2:45.831
100.689mph
accident
Goodyear  
s2173
 Team7
Brabham BT11 (Climax 2.7) F1 1966 11 +5.266
103.518mph
15 +19L
92.198mph
1 2:55.908
94.921mph
accident
Goodyear  
il_lupo_mannaro
 Black Night Racing
Ferrari 246 F1 1966 12 +6.238
102.898mph
16 +4.507
89.959mph
1 2:59.636
92.951mph
Disco
Firestone  
bernie
 Soggy Bottom Racers Club
Brabham BT11 (BRM V8) F1 1966 16 +7.817
101.907mph
17 +6.025
89.229mph
1 2:59.635
92.952mph
Disco
Goodyear  
EvilClive
 HikiWazaRacing
Brabham BT11 (BRM V8) F1 1966 3 +0.423
106.723mph
18 +20L
---
0 ---
---
Disco
Goodyear  
JonnyO
 Team Coyote
Eagle T1F (Climax) F1 1966 6 +1.697
105.861mph
19
---
0 ---
---
Disco
Goodyear  
2 UKGPL_T7
 
Brabham BT11 (Climax 2.7) F1 1966 20 20 DNS ---
---
Goodyear  

Moderator's Report

Race report writing job still vacant.

Seems all the fuzz in this race, if there were any, was either after the red zone or not enought to write an incident report about so,

No Red zone incidents

No reported incidents

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Author Topic: UKGPL Season 22 (2011-2012) Historic (66) - Moulinsart - Nov 1  (Read 9237 times)
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kinghiro
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« Reply #30 on: November 02, 2011, 10:08:41 PM +0000 »

I'd just like to check my understanding of the bump rubbers.  

The worst case of bottoming out is when the chassis hits the ground (in which case sparks will be seen on a replay).  So I usually try to set the bump rubbers high enough to avoid that happening.  

Once the bump rubbers are set the next thing I try to avoid is bottoming out on the bump rubbers.  The car will still handle badly if it bottoms out on the bump rubbers but there won't be any sparks on the replay (because the chassis is not touching the ground).

So then I stiffen the springs or raise the ride height to avoid bottoming on the bump rubbers.  Being human rather than an alien, I find a stiff set up hard to drive so I tend to raise the ride height to give me more "feel".  

Maybe it is the wrong approach and I should always use small bump rubbers and just use spring rates and ride height to avoid the chassis bottoming out?  I used a 2.00 inch bump rubber for this race, I'll try my set up with 0.5 and see if it is any better.

Riccardo Nunnini has a good explanation of bump rubbers and he advocates using 0.5 inches.  Unless hitting the bump rubbers is unavoidable.

Regardless of what size bump rubbers to use, I think bottoming out was the cause of Johnny's and Ivan's crashes.  I suggest it wasn't an internet glitch.
I ve been wondering about this myself. I think that bottoming out is worst. landing on rubbers are second worst so with for example with 4 inch height and 2 inch rubbers you would most likely land on the rubbers on this track if not using extremely stiff springs. it would then be better to have 0.5 inch rubbers if your springs and bump/rebound setting keep the car off the graound,BUT: if it bottoms with 4 inch height it s better that it lands on 2 inch rubbers than on 0.5 inch rubbers. They should have some flexibility but don t know how the program models that.
I n general keeping the the car off the ground with springs and bump/rebound(would be bump most not?) is the best and don t use loads of rubbers unless you intend to land on them and can handle the cars behaviour when you do.
I can t see any point in saying put more rubbers to keep the car off the ground if theres no flexibility in them. if 1 inch rubbers cant keep it the car from bottoming on a bumpy road, then it won t keep it from bottoming on any road if flexibility in them isn t modeled.it s just that you never notice any problem at for example Monza.
Thats the way I see it. interested in wievs on this matter:)
EDIT: another thing is the vertical speed when it it hits the rubbers. If I for example want to spank gørans bum, I wouldn t get any impact if I just raised my hand 0.5 inches would I?neither should it make the car become extremely twichy.Not favourable, but maybe to prefer anyway if the other option is to to make the car extremely heigh because of one single place on a long track.
Last EDIT: hmm missed that explanation link.it covers good:)
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 10:34:51 PM +0000 by kinghiro » Logged
Hristo Itchov
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« Reply #31 on: November 02, 2011, 11:12:18 PM +0000 »

My understanding of bottoming out is not when the underside of the car hits the ground but when the suspension compresses completely. That is when bump rubbers take over as the only available oscillatory device, not counting tires (which are much stiffer anyway, so let's assume they're solid objects). Because bump rubbers in GPL are much stiffer than the mostly used suspension settings and you can't change bump rubber stiffness (as opposed to the real world), it's very bad when the suspension compresses completely and your car rests on the bump rubbers.

I would rather avoid that as much as possible. As for scraping the ground, it's not so bad as long as the car is going in a relatively straight line. It's even less of a problem when you hit the ground mostly towards the rear of the car, as your front tires would remain with decent load and you can control the direction with ease. That's why I work on avoiding hitting the ground with the front end, either by setup or by applying throttle so I generate rearward pitch of the chassis.

The only time I used more bump rubber is when I want to prevent the car balance to shift too much backward and forward, or to the side, such as on tracks with a lot of banking or a lot of severe altitude changes. Whenever I use more bump rubber though, I find it necessary to run stiffer suspension as well, so the transition from suspension ride to bump rubber ride is less abrupt. Of course the bump rubbers actually always affect the ride because they're like an extension of the suspension, so in a way they act like secondary device to stiffen up the suspension. One could use that on smooth tracks where there isn't much compression during the lap, to fine-tune the handling of the car. You can see it on some alien Lotus WR setups.
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ivandjj
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« Reply #32 on: November 03, 2011, 07:30:58 AM +0000 »

As for scraping the ground, it's not so bad as long as the car is going in a relatively straight line.

I did actually scrape the ground when turning before the rise. But it was more than a scrape, it was more of a sudden hit and the car was spinning immediately. I gently scrape the ground at Nurburgring sometimes and it's no problem to stay in control.

Clive says that Johnny's car jumped to the right. Since you are turning right at the moment of a hit, you spin to the right.       
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EvilClive
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« Reply #33 on: November 03, 2011, 08:43:33 AM +0000 »

What I meant was, that from my view.... Jonny's car actually appeared to move completely onto the grass and back again within about 10 mtrs...almost certainly some warp involved.

But, at the same time he lost all control, so that was probably a mixture of bottoming out from him and warp affecting my view of things.
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Hristo Itchov
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« Reply #34 on: November 03, 2011, 10:20:50 AM +0000 »

You can bottom out without scraping the ground. The hints for that are when the car suddenly changes direction for no obvious reason and at the same time you know there aren't any bumps on the track. The usual effect is of either the front or rear end becoming out of control for a fraction of a second. You can experience it a lot when you have altitude changes such as at the Nurburgring and I don't mean the places where you scrape the ground. TBH I've not had it happen any recently, but that's down to using setups I've developed over the years, so it only happens when I experiment with settings.
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svenvangent
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« Reply #35 on: November 03, 2011, 02:17:16 PM +0000 »

Thanks for the kind words guy's .
See you on the next track Monsanto Park very nice track and a good choice .
I see it will be raced with the 3Liters this time .
greets svenvangent (t.sven online racename)
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« Reply #36 on: November 03, 2011, 02:33:41 PM +0000 »

See you on the next track Monsanto Park very nice track and a good choice .

Oh, Monsanto! It's the perfect place to test one's ability to avoid bottoming out.  Grin
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« Reply #37 on: November 04, 2011, 10:06:25 AM +0000 »

Thanks to all drivers for making this a full grid event.

Grats to Sven for your stunning UKGLP debut.

Grats to Al for your stunning come back to UKGPL.

Grats to all 12 of you that got points.

And a very big sorry to KH for putting you out of the race.

Now I have a request to all of you. Last season Paul "BadBlood" Whitfield wrote race reports for the Historic trophy, you can read them in the mod reports form the races like here: https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=9253#event2625

But he is a busy guy so for this season I wonder if anybody else also would like to write race reports. Maybe if you could write just a few each we could cover all season and frankly you do not even have to be a driver in the Historic trophy to do it. You just review the replay and write about what happend.

Let me dream a little. We have here a retired driver that do not have much to do nowdays  Grin and we have seen it before like Jackie Stewart and others that begun as a reporter after their carrier ended. So, Hristo what do you think could I interest you for the job?


My race was good for most of it until the incident with KH took place. After that I lost all interest in trying to catch Al.

At the start of the race I was in 4TH trying to keep up. It did not take long for Sven to brake free at the lead but I was holding on to Al and KH until I made a little mistake, but with a little help from a backmarker who distracted Al and KH I found myself back right behind Al and KH. I followed KH for a couple of laps and found out that I was quicker then him right at the start of the lap, so to get past that should be a good place to do it.

Well, it was not, or should I say, my plan did not succeed as I touched KH`s back wheel in the process and he was out of the race, or you could simply say that I rearended him. Anyway after that I just cruised the remaining laps to the finish seeing Al go in the distance. But frankly, I do not think I would have had a chance to catch Al even if things had gone my way.   

The result led to two good things at least, from my view point, that for the next race Sven will be in a group 1 car, a Maclaren or Eagle, and Al in a group 2 car, but still of cause we will have KH and Evil and ................... in well I guess I just need to prepare some for Monsanto.

Göran

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Hristo Itchov
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« Reply #38 on: November 04, 2011, 10:17:23 AM +0000 »

Now I have a request to all of you. Last season Paul "BadBlood" Whitfield wrote race reports for the Historic trophy, you can read them in the mod reports form the races like here: https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=9253#event2625

But he is a busy guy so for this season I wonder if anybody else also would like to write race reports. Maybe if you could write just a few each we could cover all season and frankly you do not even have to be a driver in the Historic trophy to do it. You just review the replay and write about what happend.

Let me dream a little. We have here a retired driver that do not have much to do nowdays  Grin and we have seen it before like Jackie Stewart and others that begun as a reporter after their carrier ended. So, Hristo what do you think could I interest you for the job?

First of all, I'm nowhere near close to writing reports as good as Paul does it. I can state facts and explain what happened, but that's hardly comparative. Evil is 10x more qualified in writing engaging reports, as we all have seen!

Second, not much to do? Lol, I wish. It just doesn't take much time to visit the forum, but that's about all the time I can spare and which is also why I had to stop racing.
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svenvangent
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« Reply #39 on: November 04, 2011, 11:11:23 AM +0000 »

Hallo guy's ,
For the next event "Monsanto Park" i'm gonna take the Mclaren M2B Ford  it is a 3liter with a good sound .
Will not be so easy to win this time me think so .
Anyway i'm already looking forward for this one .
greets svenvangent.

Olalala , brrrrrrr just done some test at Monsanto with the Mclaren M2B Ford and went to GplRanks to see what times that there where  already existing Shocked
Ok ............ need some more prrrrrrractice but....... i stick with that heavy beast  Tongue
« Last Edit: November 04, 2011, 01:14:56 PM +0000 by svenvangent » Logged
Hristo Itchov
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« Reply #40 on: November 04, 2011, 02:35:50 PM +0000 »

You can check last season's race which was also with the 3L cars: https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=9392#event2627
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« Reply #41 on: November 04, 2011, 02:57:08 PM +0000 »

Olalala , brrrrrrr just done some test at Monsanto with the Mclaren M2B Ford and went to GplRanks to see what times that there where  already existing Shocked
Ok ............ need some more prrrrrrractice but....... i stick with that heavy beast  Tongue

Check out my times... you don't need nearly as much practice as me.

I gave Hristo some hairy times last year by not knowing the tracks very well <ahem>. Sometimes you just have to turn up and drive...
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svenvangent
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« Reply #42 on: November 04, 2011, 03:06:36 PM +0000 »

You can check last season's race which was also with the 3L cars: https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=9392#event2627
Whaaaaaat  Shocked Hristo You did that with the Mclaren M2B Fort mamamia terribile well done Tongue
Is there somewhere a replay of this race  ?
« Last Edit: November 04, 2011, 03:49:53 PM +0000 by svenvangent » Logged
svenvangent
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« Reply #43 on: November 04, 2011, 03:47:45 PM +0000 »

Olalala , brrrrrrr just done some test at Monsanto with the Mclaren M2B Ford and went to GplRanks to see what times that there where  already existing Shocked
Ok ............ need some more prrrrrrractice but....... i stick with that heavy beast  Tongue

Check out my times... you don't need nearly as much practice as me.

I gave Hristo some hairy times last year by not knowing the tracks very well <ahem>. Sometimes you just have to turn up and drive...
Hallo badblood ,
But it is a hel of a tricky track , man..... this track will eat my brain  Tongue
greets svenvangent
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G Jonsson
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« Reply #44 on: November 04, 2011, 09:38:44 PM +0000 »

You can check last season's race which was also with the 3L cars: https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=9392#event2627
Whaaaaaat  Shocked Hristo You did that with the Mclaren M2B Fort mamamia terribile well done Tongue
Is there somewhere a replay of this race  ?


Yes, take a look here: http://ukgpl3.dyndns.org/inc_replaysS21_js.htm#

Göran
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