UKGPL S22 Ferrari Challenge - Monza 66 and Kyalami F2 - Jan 10

[Phil Thornton]

Thanks for the help guys, so if rebooting my router wasn't the cure what was?

Had another think.  I also swapped between D3D and OpenGL but it was all a bit manic in IGOR so I can't be sure what I did and didn't try.  For the second race I used "OpenGL V2" and "60fpsv2newmod". 

It may be that "Direct 3D v2" is incompatible with "60fpsv2newmod".  Do different combinations of rasteriser and 60fps patch produce different frame rates when online?  I think I used Direct 3D v2 when I had a low frame rate for the Monaco and Silverstone races.

If the difference is marginal then it might be possible to connect to a 60fps server with a suboptimal frame rate (like the 35-45 experienced by Vos) but if the frame rates are way out then maybe it won't be possible to connect at all because the server will assume someone is trying to connect with a 36fps configuration (Martin (Maddog) has advised me that the server does a check to make sure clients running 36fps can't connect to a 60fps server).

I know the season will be restarting again soon but it would be nice to have a few more 60fps test races.  There are still few few teething troubles to sort out but I think it will be worth the effort.

[maddog]

60fps can be confusing, because it was conjured up brilliantly, but then dropped with some loose ends hanging.  I'm running the v2 rasterizer with D3D, and it works well.  Cookie recently ran a 'how to' thread, to help explain things - it tells which mod requires which patch.  Only the newmod 60 can prevent accidental joining  :  https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=10298.0

[NickyIckx]

Here's what I have in there .  Can you confirm "if" and "what" if anything , is missing Smiley

60fpsv1 (folder)...

  shouldnt 60fpsv1 a XML document as well ?

Axel's How To is great but I think we need to add to it when (and if) we find some answers to the problems some people (e.g. Vos, Pierre D and me) are obviously experiencing.

yep a troubleshoot guide would be great .
unfortunately its hard to create one aslong understanding on 60fps circumstances arent worked out .

well , I will do some self testing with my server and GPL-Pc to ceck if there are bad effects :
1. server and client PC with different rasterizers
2. server and client PC with different core.ini settings ( for case joining via IP and different core.ini settings are up , by mistake ) 

btw . which server is stronger T7 or T8 ?

[bernie]

before you go further with this please be clear that 66mod using v2 newmod will not run at all on my PC ! server race or off line , result just the same , nada! nix! caput! It won't run .

Shurly someone can check there Gem options folder for me to make a comparison ? It might give a clue as to why I have this problem 


Phil did you test yours in software (offline) mode using V2newmod ?  did it run OK ?

Thanks to all so far

P.S. the pudding is all gone 

[s2173]

It might be a good idea to post it at srmz... Brr is around there often, and he is the one that made 60fps patch after all... Obviously there really is some incompability with 66, 60fpsv2 and certain system/windows/hardware configurations... Bernie has almost the same symptoms as me, and his computer is wastly superiour to mine tho.

[maddog]

Shurly someone can check there Gem options folder for me to make a comparison ? It might give a clue as to why I have this problem  

Nothing special to report, Squire!  My folder contains a v1 and v2newmod .xml, along with various mod replay folder .xml  There are no extra Gremlin .xml there ATM.  Your 60 patch will only work, if you get all destructive, and delete your original .exe first.  As I've a compassionate nature, I simply rename my originals, and avoid ticking off boxes thereafter.    So, gplcf2.exe, becomes gplcf2___36.exe until you want to use it again, at which time return it to original, and rename your 60 - gplf2____60.exe

[Cookie]

Just a little resume of the problems we had and have to solve, besides the fun, with the Ferrari Challenge with 60fps patch

I have allready asked Brr about making a single and easy patch, but I had to learn that he is not able to do this, as long there is no co-operation from the modders.

The Monaco desaster was my fault, as I had not heard to Fulvio and Nickys severe warnings re the BW settings in the readme, I just took the settings all servers at IGOR and VROC are using with 60fps and it went totally wrong.
So the solution will be to set the server to 5/84 5/xxx BW settings, to avoid an overload of the servers bandwith.
As long as client join via IGOR nothing has to be changed in their BW settings in IGOR window.
If you want to join via IP to a server as a client, you have to change this BW settings in the core.ini!

There was some confusion about using 60fpsV2 or 60fpsV2newmod:
The 60fpsV2 version is meant by Brr as the one to use.
I took the V2newmod as for me this version worked.
But these versions are compatible! You have to use the version that works for your system. -> readme!


At Monza we had the problem with the 66mod, it seems to run with V1 and V2!
As I never did the 66s with 60fps before, there was no experience with other PCs or systems for me.
When I tried the 66s with 60fpsV2 it worked fine here, so I preferred it because of the FR check.
I have not yet found why Bernie, Phil and Sky  had this problem...
Maybe we can test this using 66s and 60fpsV1 in another fun-race

Some drivers get the feeling that the 60fps change the handling of a car
The 60fps do not change the handling of a car, they just give you a faster responding car.
The signal-frequency of server - Client is the same, but the signal-frequency from your wheel and pedals to the car is 1,6x faster.

I don't agree that the signal between your control and the sim is faster with 60 FPS. The 60 FPS changes ONLY the rate at which graphics are drawn, it does not affect the physics engine and the controller signal exchange is tied to the physics engine. I really don't see any difference whatsoever between 36 and 60 in term of physics, controller and car handling. It's just your own subjective perception that makes the difference, your own habits of how to interpret the visual feedback from the monitor. The reason it appears more responsive with 60 FPS is because your brain has more data to work with and thus reacts better to what goes on on your screen.

And keep in mind, driving at 36 FPS compared to 60 FPS is not the same as having a drop in FPS due to heavy graphics. When the FPS drops, it affects the controller, regardless whether it drops from 36 to less or from 60 to less. It's because of the way FPS is connected to the physics and controller engine in GPL. When we switch from 36 to 60, we only adjust the multiplier for graphics, but physics frequency remains the same. From what I recall it is either 250 or 350 MHz - that is 250 or 350 updates per second. That is quite low compared to modern sims which go up to 1000 MHz, so kudos to Papyrus for making such a great sim with a physics engine updating at such low rate.

[Cookie]

As the results of the F2 mod can not yet be imported, I post them here:

Kyalami             Wed Jan 11 00:26:56 2012


PRACTICE TIMES

Pos No Driver                           Team     Nat      Time      Diff Laps
 1   4 Hristo ItchovF2                  Ferrari  JPN 1m21.669s             15
 2  10 Raoni Frizzo F2                  Ferrari  BRA 1m22.853s   01.184s   13
 3  12 Johnny Ackerman                  Ferrari  USA 1m23.053s   01.384s   16
 4  19 Göran JonssonF2                  Ferrari  SWE 1m23.350s   01.681s   16
 5  17 The evilf2                       Ferrari  USA 1m23.376s   01.707s   16
 6  16 Alex Barresi                     Ferrari  ITA 1m23.797s   02.128s   10
 7   7 Juha HalliF2                     Ferrari  FIN 1m23.918s   02.249s    4
 8   3 Dean Logan67F2                   Ferrari  CAN 1m23.994s   02.325s   11
 9  18 Bernie66 Darwin                  Ferrari  GBR 1m24.058s   02.389s   16
10   6 Fulvio-f2 Policardi              Ferrari  ITA 1m24.186s   02.517s   12
11   9 Axel Cookie                      Ferrari  GER 1m24.240s   02.571s   11
12  11 Martin Hunt                      Ferrari  GBR 1m24.395s   02.726s   12
13   5 Nicky Ickx67 F2                  Ferrari  VEN 1m24.547s   02.878s    8
14  15 Phil ThorntonF2                  Ferrari  GBR 1m24.790s   03.121s    7
15  20 Nigel Smith65                    Ferrari  GBR 1m27.289s   05.620s    5
16  35 2 UKGPL_T7                       Ferrari  ITA   No time   No time    0
17  14 Vlad Vosblod                     Ferrari  GBR   No time   No time    1

All times are official
Generated with GPL Replay Analyser


Track: Kyalami             Wed Jan 11 00:26:56 2012

RACE RESULTS (After 20 laps)

Pos No Driver                          Team     Nat Laps   Race Time       Diff
 1   4 Hristo ItchovF2                 Ferrari  JPN   20  27m43.460s           
 2  12 Johnny Ackerman                 Ferrari  USA   20  27m43.508s    00.048s
 3   7 Juha HalliF2                    Ferrari  FIN   20  28m06.474s    23.014s
 4  10 Raoni Frizzo F2                 Ferrari  BRA   20  28m06.921s    23.461s
 5  16 Alex Barresi                    Ferrari  ITA   20  28m07.124s    23.664s
 6  19 Göran JonssonF2                 Ferrari  SWE   20  28m13.757s    30.297s
 7   6 Fulvio-f2 Policardi             Ferrari  ITA   20  28m25.885s    42.425s
 8   5 Nicky Ickx67 F2                 Ferrari  VEN   20  28m34.914s    51.454s
 9  15 Phil ThorntonF2                 Ferrari  GBR   20  28m35.355s    51.895s
10   9 Axel Cookie                     Ferrari  GER   20  28m39.719s    56.259s
11  18 Bernie66 Darwin                 Ferrari  GBR   19  27m48.023s   1 lap(s)
12   3 Dean Logan67F2                  Ferrari  CAN   17  24m43.052s   3 lap(s)
13  17 The evilf2                      Ferrari  USA   11  15m35.475s   9 lap(s)
14  11 Martin Hunt                     Ferrari  GBR   10  14m19.889s  10 lap(s)
15  14 Vlad Vosblod                    Ferrari  GBR    4   6m06.494s  16 lap(s)


Race results are unofficial
(Replay might have been saved before end of race)

RACE FASTEST LAPS

Pos Driver                                 Time Lap
 1  Johnny Ackerman                   1m22.251s  19
 2  Hristo ItchovF2                   1m22.284s  18
 3  The evilf2                        1m22.493s  11
 4  Raoni Frizzo F2                   1m22.675s  11
 5  Göran JonssonF2                   1m22.996s   9
 6  Juha HalliF2                      1m23.191s   3
 7  Alex Barresi                      1m23.288s  17
 8  Martin Hunt                       1m23.812s   9
 9  Nicky Ickx67 F2                   1m23.817s   6
10  Fulvio-f2 Policardi               1m23.820s   7
11  Phil ThorntonF2                   1m23.890s   4
12  Bernie66 Darwin                   1m24.180s   7
13  Axel Cookie                       1m24.384s  19
14  Dean Logan67F2                    1m24.448s  15
15  Vlad Vosblod                      1m26.427s   3


 

[Hristo Itchov]

I don't agree that the signal between your control and the sim is faster with 60 FPS. The 60 FPS changes ONLY the rate at which graphics are drawn, it does not affect the physics engine and the controller signal exchange is tied to the physics engine. I really don't see any difference whatsoever between 36 and 60 in term of physics, controller and car handling. It's just your own subjective perception that makes the difference, your own habits of how to interpret the visual feedback from the monitor. The reason it appears more responsive with 60 FPS is because your brain has more data to work with and thus reacts better to what goes on on your screen.

And keep in mind, driving at 36 FPS compared to 60 FPS is not the same as having a drop in FPS due to heavy graphics. When the FPS drops, it affects the controller, regardless whether it drops from 36 to less or from 60 to less. It's because of the way FPS is connected to the physics and controller engine in GPL. When we switch from 36 to 60, we only adjust the multiplier for graphics, but physics frequency remains the same. From what I recall it is either 250 or 350 MHz - that is 250 or 350 updates per second. That is quite low compared to modern sims which go up to 1000 MHz, so kudos to Papyrus for making such a great sim with a physics engine updating at such low rate.

[NickyIckx]

short note on my testing with 66mod join & host  :

based on
1.clean install off GPL via beta installer 1.04 , serves 67mod etc.;
2. fresh download & install off 66mod , as well patch v2.0
3. all above on seperate partition ( H:)
4. told GEM ( located under C./programms/GPLsecrets ) where to find this new GPL install
5. all runs smooth and fine offline , no matter what rasterizers

it turns out that I

cant :
1. use 66mod offline via 60fpsV1 correct ; it leds me via single race only to training modus
2. use 66mod offline via 60fpsV2 at all  ; green start buttom  in GPL dont response , but red return one does
can
3.use 60fpsV2newmod offline serves me everything ok ; online looks I can join most servers so far
4.use 60fpsaiV1 offline serves me everything ok as well
BUT
5. I cant host 66mod,no mind if 36fps or one of 60fps options , server PC simply stops at the multiplayer screen ,. green buttom doesnt work even manual, but red does .

6.changing server PC to `join PC `and making old `join PC to server ; results in same unfortunately .

7. I tried both PC configurations ( server /joinPC ) via setting up LAN multiplayer and it works !!!

  so now I am confused either .
To me it looks like 66mod do have some serious props with Igor .

end of report for now :   need wine and a nice meal

edit :
gues Fortuna isnt on my 66mod side at all ; watching replay of Ferrari Challange 66s at Monza , it seams I am the only one got melting right front aproaching Para .
None other GPL mod car serves me that  and I realy tried hard to make changes to Fezza66 setup to avoid this , ( at least 20different setups ) withoutt out any success .
  to test if I am too stupid for setup work , an setup from any of you would be welcome ..

[bernie]

cant join green button faulty could be sound related ?

have you tried patching car sounds in GEM ?

just my thinks 

[jhalli]

1. use 66mod offline via 60fpsV1 correct ; it leds me via single race only to training modus
thats normal,only training mode works

2. use 66mod offline via 60fpsV2 at all  ; green start buttom  in GPL dont response , but red return one does
also known bug, no worky with 60fpsv2


60fpsV2newmod seems work for 66mod sofar

[NickyIckx]

cant join green button faulty could be sound related ?

have you tried patching car sounds in GEM ?

yes

[NickyIckx]

60fpsV2newmod seems work for 66mod sofar

  unfortunately not to all atm .
thought thats what these talk is all about ....

fact that I cant host 66mod at all leds to question who the troublemaker  really is ; 66mod or 60fpsV2newmod in combination with 66mod , or Igor ?
or maybe Hanswurst ? 

[Cookie]

Nicky
I have no probs with the hosting of 66s in both 60fpsV1 and 2...

there seems to be problems with 66mod!

Have you installed this 1966_Mod_PATCH_v2.0 ?

the readme is important!