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  • S22GT Pacific Raceways: February 26, 2012
February 27, 2012, 07:03:54 AM +0000 - Pacific Raceways - UKGPL Season 22 (2011-2012) GT
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
jhalli
 GT International GT
Lola T70 MkIII GT 1967 1 1:25.137
95.276mph
1 44:24.051
91.344mph
30 1:25.337
95.053mph
Goodyear  
Al Heller
 Clark-Hill Racing
Porsche 910 GT 1967 6 +1.556
93.566mph
2 +34.951
90.161mph
30 1:27.705
92.486mph
Dunlop  
Mark75 Barresi
 Godzilla GT
Ford GT40 MkIIB GT 1967 7 +1.600
93.518mph
3 +50.971
89.629mph
30 1:28.519
91.636mph
Goodyear  
Samb
 Team 7 GT
Mirage M1 GT 1967 9 +2.243
92.830mph
4 +1:05.530
89.151mph
30 1:28.326
91.836mph
Firestone  
fpolicardi
 Team 7 GT
Lola T70 MkIII GT 1967 10 +2.772
92.272mph
5 +1:24.482
88.536mph
30 1:28.232
91.934mph
Goodyear  
s2173
 Team 7 GT
Porsche 910 GT 1967 8 +2.063
93.022mph
6 +1:40.749
88.015mph
30 1:28.731
91.417mph
Dunlop  
Doni Yourth
 Green GT
Porsche 910 GT 1967 4 +0.965
94.208mph
7 +1L
88.026mph
29 1:26.550
93.720mph
Dunlop  
Cookie
 GT International GT
Ford GT40 MkIIB GT 1967 12 +3.417
91.600mph
8 +37.141
86.820mph
29 1:29.340
90.794mph
Goodyear  
FullMetalGasket
 HikiWaza GT
Porsche 910 GT 1967 3 +0.937
94.239mph
9 +7L
91.956mph
23 1:25.818
94.520mph
Disco
Dunlop  
Alex Barresi
 Godzilla GT
Ford GT40 MkIIB GT 1967 5 +1.446
93.685mph
10 +58.327
89.386mph
23 1:27.737
92.453mph
Disco
Goodyear  
EvilClive
 HikiWaza GT
Ford GT40 MkIV GT 1967 11 +3.142
91.885mph
11 +8L
86.380mph
22 1:28.724
91.424mph
Disco
Goodyear  
Rainier
 GT International GT
Ford GT40 MkIIB GT 1967 17 +14.411
81.483mph
12 +10L
77.491mph
20 1:37.177
83.471mph
Disco
Goodyear  
kinghiro
 Clark-Hill Racing
Mirage M1 GT 1967 2 +0.888
94.292mph
13 +12L
90.205mph
18 1:28.015
92.160mph
Disco
Firestone  
Geoff65
 Clark-Hill Racing
Lola T70 MkIII GT 1967 15 +5.558
89.437mph
14 +15L
79.283mph
15 1:30.304
89.824mph
Disco
Goodyear  
Phil Thornton
 Green GT
Ferrari 330/P4 GT 1967 13 +4.144
90.854mph
15 +21L
82.439mph
9 1:29.630
90.500mph
Disco
Firestone  
blito
 Green GT
Ford GT40 MkIIB GT 1967 16 +10.669
84.666mph
16 +26L
72.977mph
4 1:34.843
85.526mph
Disco
Goodyear  
Nigel Smith
 HikiWaza GT
Lola T70 MkIII GT 1967 14 +5.547
89.448mph
17 +29L
55.012mph
1 2:18.333
58.638mph
Disco
Goodyear  
2 UKGPL_T7
 
Porsche 910 GT 1967 18 18 DNS ---
---
Dunlop  

Moderator's Report

There were no REPORTED incidents for this race. But, that is not to say that this was a race WITHOUT incidents!!

Even the rolling lap at the start had some loon getting his tank on to the grass and into the trees which unfortunately set up a series of incidents behind...sorry guys.

There were quite a few bodywork bending moments during the race on a circuit that seems to have given some really close racing between the different chassis. For once the Porsches seemed to be able to challenge those Lolas. The last quarter of the race was somewhat spoiled by a string of discos that left gaps in the field and denied several drivers of potentially good points.
The UKGPL rules about "mass dsicos" are quite clear and there was not a big enough number of cars removed to justify a re-run. Unfortunately the internet does not gurantee us a problem free link for our races and this is just something that we have to accept.

For those of you who might be tempted to quit a race because you feel that you are too far behind to gain anything, remember that in any race a couple of cars can run out of fuel,crash or disco on the last few laps and you might find yourself close to a podium step if you just keep things going right up to the flag.

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Author Topic: UKGPL Season 22 (2011-2012) GT - Pacific Raceways - Feb 26  (Read 8077 times)
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s2173
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« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2012, 03:10:27 PM +0000 »

There is a brake problem in these cars, but i cant be sure if its a bug... And basicly, i have been able to handle it. It was specificly bad in the two hairpins, but I found out that the brake "bug" can be avoided, if you take care to NEVER brake with your steering wheel centered... I followed that rule, and I didnt get locked brakes in the race.

About the race itself... I finally got a real mouse instead of touchpad (which is a bit broken), and I was afraid I would drive too twitchy, since im not used to it, but not the case... I didnt do almost any errors besides at the end, and I was even pretty fast amongst all these aliens in the top 10... My teammates forgot to practice for the track, and were slower than me... The motion sickness hit me again around the middle of the race, and I wouldnt be able to survive the whole race like that... but I found out that focusing in details in cockpit (the stains on the steering wheel) helps alot. Then at the end of the race I was almost asleep and couldn't focus, and that allowed Samb and Fulvio to pass me. They wont be redfaced now for being slower than the novice in the team...

Overall, GT races seem to be the races with least retirements and best racing of all, but with that motion sickness i get with them I really don't enjoy them too much...

Btw, is there really a bonus if all 3 drivers of a team finish? That was the main reason I actually finished all the races... often with car no good even for the junkyard... but i cant see anything like that in the results. Is that calculated later, or its not true altogheder? If theres no bonus, and if the last driver of the team doesnt score... I wasted my time really bad.
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« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2012, 04:04:48 PM +0000 »

I am a GT driver by heart and I love this mod!

Yes there is a "braking bug" and Martin gave us the best explanation for it -> handbrake!

But with some more practicing you will learn to avoid it.
I am not with you, Sky, as I am allways trying to brake my beasts in a straight line!
I do use the engine to brake a lot in downshifting and try to avoid to floor the brake pedal.
Last night I had not a single brake failure in 30 laps with the MK2...

Luckily I survived the rolling lap unharmed but with a great gap, after the spin of Clive in T6...
With some little mistakes I kept my position around 8-10 when Doni came from behind in his Porky and just caught me before the "straight".
This was not a good idea, as my big banger had a lot more speed to come and into T1 I ran wide to the left on the gras unable to slow down.
Midst T2 I t-boned Doni and ended on the roof, SORRY!
Shift+R and Stop+Go let me loose some more places. But with this sudden mass disco I finaly got 8th  Roll Eyes

Grats Juha for the win and David for surviving this challenge! 
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« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2012, 07:06:21 PM +0000 »

Btw, is there really a bonus if all 3 drivers of a team finish? That was the main reason I actually finished all the races... often with car no good even for the junkyard... but i cant see anything like that in the results. Is that calculated later, or its not true altogheder? If theres no bonus, and if the last driver of the team doesnt score... I wasted my time really bad.

All three drivers must use each chassis three times - if they don't there is a BIG penalty. In the race each driver scores, so your time was not wasted Smiley
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« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2012, 07:46:35 PM +0000 »

After skilfully converting pole position into a big fat zero at the last round Undecided I was keen to rack up some solid team points here so my primary aim was just getting to the finish line in one piece. Just like Rouen, Mark easily swept past me in his GT40 down the straight soon after the start however my Porsche was proving pretty handy through the twisty bits & I was able to stay close behind him for the next few laps. This gave me a ringside seat for Mark's unfortunate tangle with Doni & returned 4th place to me with the handy addition of a few seconds breathing space. I tried to make the most of the gap & got my head down to push as hard as I dared, but I guess Mark had incurred some damage because I found I was gradually able to eke out a 10 second advantage. Many thanks to those being lapped, especially Dave, for letting me by so cleanly.

Congrats to Juha on his hat-trick of GT wins & Mark getting to the podium in that big beast. My commiserations to anyone who disco'ed (especially teamie King Hiro who was running brilliantly in the Mirage) - it's happened to me loads of times so I know what a sickener it is.   
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« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2012, 07:57:57 PM +0000 »

Poor effort from me overall. I was quite shocked at how quick everyone was. I thought I was going all guns blazing but found myself a mired in 9th. Still, I thought this track may claim some poor souls over the course of the race so thought I'd just keep my head down and drive a respectable, error-free race  smartass.

Well.....that plan went out the window when I managed to spin on the warm-up lap, collecting my team-mate Fulvio  oops. From then on I had some good battles with a few people, and lapped steadily to the end. Was very fortunate to finish 4th after all my adventures. Hard luck to anyone that suffered a disco.

Any chance the replay can be posted? I'd like to see how bad my connection was as apparently I was jumping about like a frog at some points.

EDIT: Just re-read Paul's message properly! Apologies for being an arse.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2012, 09:01:07 PM +0000 by Samb » Logged
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« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2012, 08:22:45 PM +0000 »

All three drivers must use each chassis three times - if they don't there is a BIG penalty. In the race each driver scores, so your time was not wasted Smiley

Just use it or finish with it? Cause I often had the incentive to use my car for a tree/fence/haybale decoration...

"g) All drivers must drive all 3 cars that the team has purchased at least 3 times during the 10 race season. If a driver competes in all 10 races he will be able to drive 1 of the cars 4 times.
h) Points will be awarded as last season, so getting all 3 drivers to the finish will increase the team score.
j) At the end of the 10 race championship any TEAM which has not complied with rule "g"  will have its BEST TEAM points result of the season cancelled.
k) Each driver will drop his worst 2 results, in line with the other championships, this gets over the problem of missed races and 2 man teams looking for a sub at the last minute."

the h) point seems to suggest some bonus... and g) point seems to say that a team will be penalized if driving a car more than 4 times, not that it will be penalized if driver fails to drive a car atleast 3 times?
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« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2012, 08:53:32 PM +0000 »

Btw, is there really a bonus if all 3 drivers of a team finish? That was the main reason I actually finished all the races... often with car no good even for the junkyard... but i cant see anything like that in the results. Is that calculated later, or its not true altogheder? If theres no bonus, and if the last driver of the team doesnt score... I wasted my time really bad.

All three drivers must use each chassis three times - if they don't there is a BIG penalty. In the race each driver scores, so your time was not wasted Smiley


Paul is absolutely correct ...every driver in a team scores points. That is why the format makes the team share the cars, to make sure that you don't just give the fastest chassis to the resident alien and sacrifice the other 2 drivers. If the points system works out as I intended when I concocted this championship, the winning margin will probably be dependent upon those points scored by the novice drivers throughout the season. So, getting each car to the finish is important in every race. Of course , disco's don't exactly help that plan Undecided

Jason says he has given up fighting this "braking bug" , by which I assume he means the tendency for the car to plough straight on when braking hard??? I think we have all been caught out by that and to begin with I found it VERY annoying.  I tried to alter the setups to get rid of it but it took me a while to get a feel for the setup parameters in the GTs.
In the race last night I had the dubious honour of driving the Mk4 Ford (possibly the worst car for slowing and turning into a corner) and at a track with hairpin bends and downhill braking at the end of a very long straight into a 180 deg corner, things did not look too promising.

However, I have been trying to come to terms with the braking issue on these GT's and I spent a couple of short practice runs on Saturday working on eliminating the problem. I did not have a single brake problem all race and I was pushing that Mk4 as hard as I dared. This is how I worked my way around it:-

First of all, I have thought for a long time that this braking bug felt just the same as the effect you get in the 67 GP cars when the front suspension bottoms out. Total loss of steering and control.  Shocked

So I upped the front spring rates and tweaked the front bump and rebound up a couple of notches too. I also reduced the bump rubbers to allow the suspension to work without coming up against anything solid. Then I raised the ride height by a few notches, maybe only 12 cms but just enough to let things work. I also upped the rear bump rebound, but reduced the spring rates slightly to get a better balance .

2nd  I moved the brake balance back to about 50% to avoid locking the front wheels, but found that I although I was not getting the blocked brakes syndrome, the rear end was tending to take a path of its own into corners. So I nudged the brake balance bit by bit back to about 55% in gradual stages until I had a stable car under me. I should mention here that it was noticeable that at Pacific Raceways it took about 3 laps to get the tyres up to a working temp and that made a BIG difference to the handling. If I pushed hard on an "out lap" I invariably crashed!!

3rd  The Mk4 Ford is a heavy beast to get to turn in, so I played with diff and clutch settings to give me "power on" oversteer. The hope being that I could brake and set the car up for a corner without scrubbing off too much speed and then use that enormous engine to force the car to hold a tight line as I squeezed the gas. I think my final diff setup was 45/45 and 5 clutches

It took a few trial runs and tweaks to tyre pressures and toe in/out to finalise the setup but eventually I had a beast of a car more or less under control. Rather than standing on the brake pedal I found it better to start braking a little earlier than usual and ease the car smoothly into the corner using a final downshift to kick the tail out and set it up for the apex. Then a squirt of power would push the nose towards the inside of the curve and I could begin to apply acceleration. On the two sharp hairpin bends T2 & T3 I could actually tweak the gas and make the car rotate to align with the exit and accelerate away.

I did not get the "brake problem" even once during the race. Whether that was because of the setup, or my driving, or a combination of both I cannot be sure but it worked and on a twisty track I might have been getting a 6th or 7th place if the disco devil had not got involved, but that is racing for you.

Jason, I saw you in qually having some serious directional control issues and it might be good to post your setup here on the forum, just so that we can see what you were fighting. Naturally you will get 27 conflicting solutions but you might also find that things in a tin top are not so bad when you can make it go in the direction that you wanted?

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« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2012, 08:54:19 PM +0000 »

Grats Juha for the win and David for surviving this challenge! 

And now our GT International team is 1st !!!
...but this is not thank to me Smiley

I was disconnected after 20 laps ...and for the 1st time I was really happy disco happened to me !!
I will try to do all the GT season for my team ...but it will be the last GT season for me (except if can drive 910 and P4 only)
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« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2012, 09:03:41 PM +0000 »

All three drivers must use each chassis three times - if they don't there is a BIG penalty. In the race each driver scores, so your time was not wasted Smiley

Just use it or finish with it? Cause I often had the incentive to use my car for a tree/fence/haybale decoration...

"g) All drivers must drive all 3 cars that the team has purchased at least 3 times during the 10 race season. If a driver competes in all 10 races he will be able to drive 1 of the cars 4 times.
h) Points will be awarded as last season, so getting all 3 drivers to the finish will increase the team score.
j) At the end of the 10 race championship any TEAM which has not complied with rule "g"  will have its BEST TEAM points result of the season cancelled.
k) Each driver will drop his worst 2 results, in line with the other championships, this gets over the problem of missed races and 2 man teams looking for a sub at the last minute."

the h) point seems to suggest some bonus... and g) point seems to say that a team will be penalized if driving a car more than 4 times, not that it will be penalized if driver fails to drive a car atleast 3 times?

I suppose that you could interpret rule h) as inferring that there were some extra points available, but what it was intended to highlight was that getting all team cars to the finish has to be the best way to rack up points for the team championship. Generally, I have noticed that drivers do tend to nurse their cars to the finish or at least until they expire to try and claim as many points as they can..which is good.

Rule g) is worded that way for a very good reason. Yes you will be penalised for driving a car more than 4 times ( unless of course your team has chosen 2 or 3 cars of the same type!) but, if you miss a couple of races you might not be able to drive each car 3 times and there is no penalty for not racing, just a loss of potential points for the team. If you only compete in 8 races then it would be impossible to drive each car 3 times, but you would still be penalised if you tried to run the same car in 4 of those 8 races.
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« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2012, 09:07:23 PM +0000 »

Grats Juha for the win and David for surviving this challenge! 

And now our GT International team is 1st !!!
...but this is not thank to me Smiley

I was disconnected after 20 laps ...and for the 1st time I was really happy disco happened to me !!
I will try to do all the GT season for my team ...but it will be the last GT season for me (except if can drive 910 and P4 only)

I think next season the GT races will have to be reviewed if we are going to accommodate the F2's into our packed race schedule. I am not saying that anything has been decided but I suspect that there will be ample opportunity for a discussion on what we do in the future. So maybe you will get your wish Juha..or maybe not. Roll Eyes
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« Reply #25 on: February 27, 2012, 10:59:29 PM +0000 »

Grats Juha for the win and David for surviving this challenge! 

And now our GT International team is 1st !!!
...but this is not thank to me Smiley

I was disconnected after 20 laps ...and for the 1st time I was really happy disco happened to me !!
I will try to do all the GT season for my team ...but it will be the last GT season for me (except if can drive 910 and P4 only)

Dave you do just fine when finishing, and now you have "better" car for  next race . Wink dont give up ...

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« Reply #26 on: February 27, 2012, 11:01:07 PM +0000 »

Grats Juha for the win and David for surviving this challenge! 

And now our GT International team is 1st !!!
...but this is not thank to me Smiley

I was disconnected after 20 laps ...and for the 1st time I was really happy disco happened to me !!
I will try to do all the GT season for my team ...but it will be the last GT season for me (except if can drive 910 and P4 only)

I think next season the GT races will have to be reviewed if we are going to accommodate the F2's into our packed race schedule. I am not saying that anything has been decided but I suspect that there will be ample opportunity for a discussion on what we do in the future. So maybe you will get your wish Juha..or maybe not. Roll Eyes



F2's or GT's are just fine mods for me !  Grin

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« Reply #27 on: February 28, 2012, 07:15:30 AM +0000 »

"... to make sure That you do not just give the fastest chassis to the resident alien and sacrifice the other 2 drivers. If the points system works out as I Intended When I concocted this championship, the winning margin will be dependent Probably Those upon points scored by the novice drivers throughout the season ... "
So Nigel will use Lola in the next two races and Ford in the last two? That 's what you mean?
Because I hear a little voice that tells me this will not happen, and you and Tim will have, in turn, the best car in the coming races.
The current rules are forcing slowest drivers in worst car in each track, if a team look to champ classification.
I know that I am caustic, but I enjoy it less and less, there is little to do, and I'd rather complain now to try to improve things in the future.
Now, time to laugh, and this was my setup in this race (imperial measures, no problem with brakes):
tyres pressure: 20 F, 24 R;
springs & sway bars: all at 300, F&R;
shocks: 8/12 F, 8/12 R;
bump rubbers: all at min (0.5 inches);
camber & convergence: all at zero;
ride heights: 3.00 F, 2.5 R;
differential: 60/60/1.
In my experience, brake problem with GT cars happen when there is a long and hard braking phase.
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« Reply #28 on: February 28, 2012, 08:07:33 AM +0000 »

We need to have a think about what will happen with the GTs next season because at the moment, there are two GT championships - next season we don't have room for that if we want to race the F2's (and we do). The mid season review (argument!) is due shortly - once Round 6 is out of the way we will get the ball rolling.
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« Reply #29 on: February 29, 2012, 08:16:07 PM +0000 »

"... to make sure That you do not just give the fastest chassis to the resident alien and sacrifice the other 2 drivers. If the points system works out as I Intended When I concocted this championship, the winning margin will be dependent Probably Those upon points scored by the novice drivers throughout the season ... "
So Nigel will use Lola in the next two races and Ford in the last two? That 's what you mean?
Because I hear a little voice that tells me this will not happen, and you and Tim will have, in turn, the best car in the coming races.
The current rules are forcing slowest drivers in worst car in each track, if a team look to champ classification.


Thanks for your comments Alex, but I think you need to watch how the cars are used by each team for the rest of the season  Roll Eyes As Tim has said if any team had selected the 2F then that should have been the fastest car at most circuits, but no-one risked paying their tokens for that car, deciding instead to try and get 3 good cars to share around their team mates?. Maybe next season I will increase the tokens available just a little to see if some people can be tempted to buy a Chap 2F??

The rules were designed to stop the slowest drivers having to take the slowest cars for every race Alex. Your team made a very clever move by selecting 3 x Mk2 Fords so that you did not have the problem of making sure that no driver used a single car more than 4 times. I am sure that other teams will tell you that it is not as easy as you might think to organise the drivers and cars to comply with that rule for all 10 races.
Certainly each team wants to maximise the points that it can score in any race..that is why we are racing, but as I said before, the best way to accumulate points is to get all 3 cars to the finish in every race. Sacrificing the slower drivers so that one driver can go for the win, whilst the other 2 finish at the tail of the field is not as good as getting 3 cars into the top 10 finishers?

I don't think I can be accused of taking "the best car" for Pacific Raceways Alex  Undecided I doubt that anyone would choose the Ford Mk4 for a circuit like that.

Because the Hiki Waza team has 3 different cars,and we have to make sure that all of our drivers drive each car at least 3 times, this means that Nigel will actually have the Lola for 3 races in the second half of the season and looking at the tracks we have yet to race that is not so bad? I get the Lola for only 1 more race Undecided and yes, I will be trying to score maximum points when I drive that car.
When I have to drive the Porsche I know that I am unlikely to be fast enough to challenge the MK2s, Lolas and Ferraris etc, but then I try and beat all of the other Porsch drivers and maybe just one or two of the other cars and score as many points as I can for the team.

My idea was to try and create a TEAM, race not an individual championship, (we have enough of those already) and I wanted to try something different.
It may not be perfect and I am quite prepared to change things for next season. We may have to make some major changes if we are to start an F2 championship, because we do not have enough evenings to fit in all of our current championships.
 I know that it sounds easy to "just change things now", but the way the whole race/points/championship/teams thing is set up behind the scenes makes that a huge problem for the moderators. In a few weeks we will have our mid season review and we ask all members to comment on what they like and don't like about the current season. If enough members want a certain change and it is possible to make it happen, then the mods will do all they can to implemet those chages for the next season.


BTW I agree with your comment about "long hard braking" these GT cars do not seem to like drivers standing on the brake pedal  Undecided and you  and Mark definitely seem to have the Mk2 Ford  running very fast.
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