Quarterly cost: �0
 
nonchalant-unilinear
March 29, 2024, 11:41:01 AM +0000 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
Series
S4455GPP
S4455GPW
S4466CA
S4467F1P
S4467F1W
S4467F2A
S4467F2P
S44JSMT
Recent
S4455GPW Indianapolis …
S4455GPP Indianapolis …
S4466CA Road America (…
S4467F1W Imola (1953-7…
S4467F1P Imola (1953-7…
S4467F2A Ingliston
S4467F2P Ingliston
Forthcoming
S44JSMT Goodwood (Circ…
S44JSMT Boreham Airfie…
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register     LM2 Replays Rules Links Circuits Teams  
Linked Events
  • S22Int Snetterton: March 27, 2012
March 27, 2012, 10:35:36 PM +0100 - Snetterton (Long) - UKGPL Season 22 (2011-2012) Intermediate (65)
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
Rainier
 Black Night Racing
Honda RA272 F1 1965 6 +0.726
---
1 51:59.466
---
34 1:30.430
---
Goodyear  
maddog
 Antipasti Racing
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 7 +1.813
---
2 (+1) +15.256
---
34 1:30.622
---
Goodyear  
Cookie
 Antipasti Racing
Honda RA272 F1 1965 1 1:29.726
---
3 +17.986
---
34 1:30.070
---
Goodyear  
Ronniepeterson
 Clark-Hill Racing
Honda RA272 F1 1965 4 +0.566
---
4 +54.023
---
34 1:30.768
---
Goodyear  
JonnyO
 Team Coyote
Cooper T77 (Climax) F1 1965 10 +2.818
---
5 +1:02.574
---
34 1:31.572
---
Dunlop  
bernie
 Soggy Bottom Racers Club
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 8 +2.203
---
6 +1:23.658
---
34 1:31.586
---
Goodyear  
Caracciola
 
Honda RA272 F1 1965 2 +0.401
---
7 +1L
---
33 1:30.255
---
Goodyear  
Geoff65
 Clark-Hill Racing
Honda RA272 F1 1965 3 +0.467
---
8 +6L
---
28 1:30.418
---
Goodyear  
francesco
 Antipasti Racing
Ferrari 512 F1 1965 9 +2.206
---
10 +26L
---
8 1:33.169
---
Dunlop  
8 UKGPL
 
Ferrari 512 F1 1965 11 DNS ---
---
Dunlop  
s2173
 Team7
Honda RA272 F1 1965 5 +0.618
---
Excluded +16L
---
18 1:32.320
---
Goodyear  

Moderator's Report

A relatively quiet Red Zone - which sets a false impression of what is to come. My most difficult moderation yet and as a consequence, I have to remind all drivers of their right to appeal any moderation, although they should bear in mind that penalties do not have to be reduced and can, in fact, be increased.


Server replay time: 0h01m30s

Bernie loses the back under straight braking for the hairpin (I know how he feels ;)) which is unfortunate for Fran who gets collected whilst minding his own business...


Server replay time: 0h01m34s

Maxime is trying to come back at Ronnie and brakes later and can only avoid a collision by locking up and spinning.


Server replay time: 0h02m39s

Hardest incident I have ever had to deal with but not because of the incident itself. The details are actually fairly clear. In assessing any infraction, each incident is taken in isolation on its own merits. This incident is made harder by a history of incidents and patterns of behaviour that fall below the high standards expected which has led to some bad feeling. I have had to re-draft this mod upwards of ten times.

The incident itself: Martin has driven very wide and Sky has the inside line. Martin takes to the grass by choice (and that fact is key) and this gives Sky a 5mph speed advantage - Sky squeezes over on Martin and has 50% overlap BUT Martin has left the track so Sky has every right to do so. As Martin rejoins Sky's nose appears large in his cockpit and they collide heavily.

I have looked at this several times as tempers were somewhat heated immediately after the race. It is my job to remove that emotion and judge the incidents on the facts alone.

Unfortunately for Martin he has voluntarily placed himself in the wrong by leaving the track. No problem with that but once all four wheels leave the tarmac any driver is in a rejoin situation and must ensure that it is safe to do so. Sky moves to the left and then straightens the car and moves left again and straightens. He stays on track. Sky actually follows the track groove closely which kinks here. He gives Martin no room (which we would hope for but cannot insist upon). Martin attempts to rejoin but there is no way he can avoid a collision if he does so. Drivers cannot choose to take to the grass and continue racing heedless.

This is clearly, according to the rules, a bad rejoin from Martin. Although he is the complainant, in this case, he is the one to be penalized. There are two rulings that fit this, but I have chosen the lesser offence: "The rejoining driver drove straight back onto the track, but not the racing line, without checking for other cars and contact was made." Technically Martin does not get to the racing line.

This normally attracts a penalty of two places. The alternative is the Appallingly Bad Rejoin: "The rejoining driver was in full control and drove straight back onto the racing line without any consideration for other drivers and contact was made." This seems wholly disproportionate given that Martin tried to rejoin gradually and Sky contributed to the collision by jinking left at the last moment out of Martin's forward view. Martin was aware of Sky's presence but may have judged that there was more room than there actually was. He had no choice but to rejoin towards the racing line but should have let Sky go first. Although drivers are at liberty to use the grass and are not forbidden to race on it, once they have left the tarmac they must rejoin and do so safely.

My feeling is that that this was two cars racing side by side without either paying the other enough respect with regards to racing room BUT (and it is a big but, literally), as Martin was off track (and had CHOSEN to do so) it was his job to ensure that he did not interfere with any driver on the track.

I have used my discretion to reduce the penalty to that of an Inconsiderate Bad Rejoin: "The rejoining driver was in full control but nevertheless drove straight back onto the track without leaving enough room for other cars. Contact was NOT made but other drivers had to take avoiding action." This clearly does not fit as there is contact, but I consider that the offence falls somewhere between the two levels of Blatant and Inconsiderate.

Martin is therefore given a one place penalty. Sky is not blameless here and is guilty of unsportsmanlike driving as he could easily have chosen to leave more room although he is not bound to do so. What he is bound to do under the Etiquette regulations is to ensure that he drives in a manner that careful and respects others on track. I do not believe he did so here. He is therefore given a Warning as the rules do not exactly cover the penalties for such infringements, merely stating that driver may be penalised.

To sum up, Martin is clearly in the wrong here according to the rules but Sky could have helped here by choosing to leave more room, all without jeopardising his position. Neither driver covered themselves in glory. It is expected that drivers will make some room and avoid collisions, if possible. Either driver could have avoided this incident and I wish they had. Martin receives the penalty as he was off track and the rules are quite clear about that. I do not find that Sky deliberately drove into Martin which would, of course, be extremely serious. It is not expected, however, that drivers will make two moves when in close contact situations.

Both drivers appear to have forgotten the following, which is part of the recommended driver behaviour: "Avoid close racing when its not necessary... ...The general rule for the careful and respectful driver would be, not to unnecessarily drive too close to another, especially whenever there is no point."

There is NO PLACE for driver squabbles on track and there was not enough care and respect here which should be the watchwords in our community.

My job here, both as Moderator and Chief Moderator is to ensure that the rules are applied as neutrally as possible and without regard to history (which I am acutely aware of). I have endeavoured to do so.


Server replay time: 0h08m00s

The time of this incident is indicative only and covers a series of incidents.

Sky spins several times on laps 3, 4 and 5 and has clearly lost concentration from Lap 5 he drives around erratically and mostly, very slowly. Whilst he largely stays out of the way, crossing from one side to the other at low speed is extremely unhelpful to all the other drivers. In addition this causes flags to be waved in error. If you are not racing you have no place on the race track. This is clearly in contravention of the Etiquette regulations and I have no hesitation in penalising him.

The rules have this "Any driver appearing not to be making adequate use of his rear view mirrors, or driving in a manner which even unintentionally appears to hinder or discourage a driver seeking to move one or more laps ahead may be penalised." In this case the infringement is extremely discourteous to other participants and merits exclusion.

In addition, it has been noted that Sky has accumulated 8 penalty points in Inters this season alone, prior to this race, and has a total of twenty altogether. This should act as a warning that driving standards need to improve. Although this specific penalty does not attract a set number of penalty points I am, in light of the accumulated penalty points, imposing a SUSPENDED ONE RACE BAN (suspended for three races). ANY infringement in ANY division before the end of the season will result in that ban being imposed IN THIS DIVISION. It is not a ban I wish or expect to enforce.

Drivers who wish to know how this works should look at the section on Persistent Bad Driving in the Penalty Guidelines page [url=https://www.ukgpl.com/index.php/rules/penalties]here[/url].

Pages: 1 [2]
  Print  
Author Topic: UKGPL Season 22 (2011-2012) Intermediate (65) - Snetterton - Mar 27  (Read 5980 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Rainier
UKGPL Divisional Moderator
UKGPL Moderators
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2522



View Profile
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2012, 10:18:16 PM +0100 »

Maddog (Mr Hunt) took a fantastic "Romain Grosjean like" start

Was he out by turn 2 then?  Cheesy


Yes, or on lap 3, with Skymole playing the role of Michael Schumacher Smiley 
That's why I made this comparison Wink
Logged

Le silence éternel de ces espaces infinis m'effraie
Cookie
UKGPL Divisional Moderator
UKGPL Moderators
Hero Member
****
Posts: 6189


Chris Amon fan


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2012, 11:50:05 AM +0100 »

This could have been the greatest fun race I ever had...

But first of all: Gratulation to Dave and Martin, well done!

My quali was good and I could manage a nearly perfect lap to save the pole Roll Eyes

The start was good but with the tow I had some close followers...
Max made this misbraking into the hairpin but Ronnie kept close.
I could hold the lead until I had this limping Sky in my way for the first time.
I was shocked and overreacted, my concentration was gone...
Ronnie managed to pass me and we went on fighting until our T1 meeting, maybe I should have been more patient!
My nose in a hayball it took some time to recover, I have to apologize to JonnyO, whom I seem to have shocked at that moment Embarrassed
Now I had to minimize the mischief and with the bad luck of some others I came in third.

What made me really angry was the fact that I had to pass this limping "high" Sky for about 16 times!
This caused a lot of dangerous situations for me and all other contestants.
I saw you tried to stay out of our line, but it was unavoidable to be in the apexes of the corners.
Just ask yourself what you would have felt in our situation....
I am a driver who reacts to swaying yellow flags and slows down!

Axel
Logged

Axel "Cookie"

poor, he who sees no stars without the punch in the face

an aphorism of  Stanislaus Jercy Lec
Ronniepeterson
Full Member
***
Posts: 1212


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2012, 05:51:06 PM +0100 »

This was very hard fought race from start to finish. Apologies to Axl, Martin and Max for contact early on, mid race and very late on respectively. I can assure you all none of the moves were intended to ruin anyones race. But if you feel different don't hesitate to put in a report as I would not want it to affect how we race in the future. Sorry again.

My sorry Honda had some speed down the long straight but not the stopping power of some at the hairpin. I was worried that my braking point into the hairpin for the first time might trigger mayhem behind. Looking at the replay now I can see I actually need to thank Max for avoiding me. The plan was to bide my time behind Axl and go for a winning pass, if possible, later on.  But that all changed when we had some trouble lapping a slow moving Honda and the only way to avoid an accident was to pass Axl.

I assumed he would take the lead back eventually at the hairpin next lap but he went for a fair move earlier, up the inside into turn 1. I turned in on my racing and we unfortunately made contact, gifting the top spots to the hardcharging Dave, Geoff and Martin. Recovering before Axl I set about "Hunting" Martin down. Great stuff as no quarter was given for several laps. After a spin and some minor contact I found myself ahead of Martin but he was now hounding me. I had to push hard to try and shake him off. Somewhere along the line I passed an ailing Geoff , I think and tried to reel in Dave. But just when I was thinking second would be a good result and that I should ease off, my engine went bang. The stop and go allowed Martin and Axl back through and exiting my pit with a full tank I was aware of a fuel light Honda driven by Max fast approaching. He caught me on the last lap and I knew he would nail me at the hairpin so the plan was to go deep at the hairpin and take the inside line for a latebreaking pass at the Esses. Max turned in on his racing line and found me in his way and rather like as with Axl we unfortunately made contact. I was able to limp home in 4th but Max was not so lucky.

Despite all this I thought this was a great race. Grats to Dave for holding it together at the front, Martin for some great racing and securing second and Axl for not giving up and grabbing third. Commiserations in particular to Max, after losing time avoiding my braking Honda on lap 1 you deserved better than my thank you at the Esses on the final lap. But also to Geoff who should have been in the mix, not quite sure what happened to you  mate, better luck next time.

Enjoy the break everyone and see you all at Mosport.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2012, 08:33:31 PM +0100 by Ronniepeterson » Logged
Geoff65
Former UKGPL Moderators
Full Member
**
Posts: 824


Aussie Paul Hawkins. Sitting in Porsche 910


View Profile WWW
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2012, 11:53:57 AM +0100 »

Huge congratulations Dave, that was a well-earned victory. My race was going great til the peace was shattered by two youngsters who should have been getting ready for school, belting lumps off each other. the other half had taken an early trip to the supermarket....so I had no choice but to shutdown and put my referee hat on! Needless to say, the doghouse is still well occupied. Really enjoyed the race up til then too.
Logged

www.clark-hillracing.com

"Racing is life.....anything that happens before or after, is just waiting"
Steve McQueen from "Le Mans"

GPL Rank +15.145 29/3/2012
BadBlood
Former UKGPL Moderators
Hero Member
**
Posts: 6107


Sassafrassarassum Rick Rastardly!


View Profile WWW
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2012, 11:14:46 PM +0100 »

Moderation published. Tin hat on Wink
Logged

BadBlood

aka

Angel Moose angel
GPLRank +71.5ish Smiley
GPL65Rank +71.1ish Smiley
Other ranks? Middlin' Slowish Wink
maddog
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 1709


View Profile
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2012, 06:34:55 PM +0100 »

I'm not happy with the initial findings, in the race report.  Having requested the proper method by which to extend the inquiry, and receiving no response, it seems I need to lodge an official request here, for an appeal.  Now you know why the girls all find me appealing! Cool
Logged
s2173
Full Member
***
Posts: 271



View Profile
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2012, 09:05:19 AM +0100 »

So what are you not happy about?
Logged

Who is the living, loving city of people without faces? The elevator is screaming in his claws.

The Red City, 43 Novctober 2173.
Pages: 1 [2]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Hosted by DaveGymer.com
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.309 seconds with 53 queries.
anything